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The Congo Tantalum Rush
Logic Bomb writes: "The New York Times Magazine takes a look at the mining of a muddy substance called coltan. Once refined, it becomes tantalum, the crucial ingredient in capacitors. To put it simply, the modern high-tech world depends on this stuff. And while most of us have images of squeaky-clean chip factories and such -- in marked contrast to sleazy textile sweatshops -- it turns out that this industry has a dark side that takes a major toll on human lives. Definitely worth a read."
Spot the difference between USA and Central africa right here. In Central africa, no company is even concerned that that might happen to them.
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
So you really belive diamonds are a modern bauble?
Diamonds and Gold were the main reasons the British were so interested in South Africa.
Just think Kimberly Mines.
Boer Wars were fought over 100 years ago, and the one of the reasons the Boers were even there, was the presence of these resources.
>Sure, the story sounds appaling -- notably the
>way Mama D. exploits her workers. But do you
>really think any other business is different?
>You like having a car, right?
Am I the only one who noticed the right wing slant of the article is more concerned that Mama D employs prostitutes, than with the environmental tragedy of mining in a rainforest?
Or even that mining in the Congolese National Park is illegal, not to mention outrageous?
What I get from the article is that we should be alarmed at the prostituion business going on in the mining town... The parallels between the African mining industry and the early days of the USAn mining industry probably don't stop just with worker exploitation and prostitution...
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
We can kill the evil captain kirk, and we all move up in rank!
No, but they have taken very small chunks of land and refused access to them. Pine Gap is a well known example. Located in the outback this piece of land was taken and is thought to be setup as a communications (aka spy) network. The Amersicans have never once told anyone exactly what goes on here. As soon as on of our prime-ministers started to make noises, there was a quick change of government and Bob-Hawke was thrust into leadership. I cant remember the whole story, but the ABCs (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) 4-corners did a very intersting documentary on the whole affair. Yes, the Americans could have been an influencing factor in overthrowing an Australian Government. All it takes here in
The people with the money have the power, not the voters.
Does it go on forever?
Africa, with all of its mineral riches, is used to feed other people pockets. I heard a story a while back about diamond mines in Africa. To keep people under control the crime bosses in the area randomly cut of body parts of the workers to keep them motivated. Many of the things "we" industrialized countries use are the result of someones suffering. We get rich off of the brow of those who dont have a word in the matter. But as someone else said... What are we going to do about it? The world is looking for an answer if anyone has one.
We could let this continue to occur. This is most likely to happen. Or we could form a private army, funded and outfitted by all the major corporations that require chip tech including Lockheed Martin, Intel, Microsoft, et cetera, and march against the capital of the Democratic Republic of Congo. We would seize it in an amazing tour de force and control the stream of Tantalum. We would be fair and benevolent leaders and our people would admire us. We would give them shiny baubles and bags of rice and they would treat us like gods.
I actually wrote an article about this last spring in Norway's largest news website. You can find it here. I also got some statements on the subject from the now bankrupt "Magcom" mobile phone manufacturer... :)
Umm, what the hell are you disagreeing with? You just told me to to pull my head out of my ass, then proceeded to reiterate my point exactly.
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
I've been there (it was Zaire at the time). Gorgeous land and a lot of extremely friendly people trying to live simple, peaceful lives. Something to remember is that wars don't last forever, they don't involve everybody (well, rarely), and in any war there are lots of honorable people on both (or in this case, all 5) sides.
Keep your dream. Work for peace when you can.
Instead of blaming the corporations that exploit the workers, ask yourselves why the governments in the host countries like the Congo don't have any labor standards. Then ask yourself just how often are the governments in countries like the Congo actually willfully allowing stuff like this to happen. We import from China all the time because we have anti-robotics culture that would go nucking futz if many of our manufacturers used mostly robots on their assembly lines because that would "cost jobs." The reality is that we can't have both cheap goods and high standards in the lowest of the low jobs in industrial manufacturing. The only way in most cases to eliminate the need for cheap labor is to use robotics and of course the luddites in society (the majority of society?) are vehemently opposed to using robots for production even though it would often give us a freer society and cheaper goods and services.
I design single-board computers for CompactPCI backplanes. For us there is no substitute for tantalum cap's. I am not saying that no substitute could possibly be produced by the companies that make capacitors, but as of now, there is no substitute.
MM
----
By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
They've undertaken huge clean-up projects at most of their bases, plan every exercise & project for minimal environmental impact, and try to stay in strict compliance with US and state or host-nation environmental laws. Unlike many corporations that would rather pay the fines for non-compliance when it's cheaper.
I speak from personal experience, in Air Force Civil Engineering. The construction projects I was involved in used high efficiency HVAC systems, low energy lighting, motion sensors that automatically turn lights off when rooms aren't in use, super-insulated buildings, toilets that use less water volume per flush, etc. These things all cost more up front, but have lower long-range operating costs. Now that I'm working in the private sector, commercial & residential clients forgo these systems for more traditional, environmentally unfriendly systems.
Energy conservation wasn't even spoken about in the media in recent years, until Califonia's self inflicted energy crisis. The military has been heavily promoting it internally for several years.
There was even a
Substandard ?
Obviously locals were very willing to exchange their gold and that is all what mattered there.
In the 1960's, the Americans waded in. To fight Communism and secure access to cobalt and copper, the Central Intelligence Agency helped bring about the assassination of Congo's first democratically elected prime minister, Patrice Lumumba. That was followed by three decades of White House coddling of his successor, Mobutu Sese Seku, Africa's most famous billionaire dictator, who set a poisoned table for the chaos that followed his eventual overthrow in 1997.
The crux of the matter is that when you talk about the poor conditions in just about any region of Africa (aside from the extreme north), almost all o fthose poor conditions did not exist until industrialized European countries and the United States decided to change them into colonies or banana republics to benefited their own economy at the expense of the African ones.
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
And this makes it okay or something? Does it make you feel good that we, as highly advanced European countries, can take advantage of peoples who are less advanced than we are (although certainly more advanced than we think they are)? It sure sounds like it. Maybe you should take a good look at what actually happened before you start shooting your mouth off. And don't spout platitudes about introducing the natives to capitalism or higher technology or a better standard of living -- we didn't. We introduced them to a government-controlled and -aided exploitation of their natural resources and human rights, in return for jack squat. Now maybe you can't (or don't want to, that's more like it) do anything about it, maybe you don't feel like being a drop in the bucket, but at least you could have the human decency to feel a little guilty.
exactly. I'm going to drop kick the next asian I see. Now I realize the error of my ways. He doesn't know kung fu so he won't be able to defend himself.
So, I got a question for you. What if my default action with snakes is to shoot them in the head on the off chance that they might be poisonous? Do you think its my actions that are the problem or my perceptions? Specifically my perceptions which cause me to react extremely antisocially to all members of a certain group based on some small past ecxperience. Also, I'm sure you would agree, that I can't take the chance of any snake being poisonous, ever.
Take this personaility test.
SACRILEGE!!!!
/. servers disintegrates!)
No such device existed in the first published stories of the Mahdi by the Umma. The Lisan-al-Gaib never needed such a device, because all things within the Universe were his to control. The Fedaykin only used Crysknife or Maula Pistol to fight for Muad'dib. To suggest anything else would be Blasphemy...
...but it was really cool to see those in the movie! (heh)
CHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAA-CHACHSHA!!!!!!
(one of the
Dang - now I'm going to have to watch the movie tonight!!!
Have Fun....Play Hard....Play-do
ScottKin
I don't give a rat's behind about "karma" here or anywhere else. Don't like what I have to say here? Deal with it!
"every native society it touched"
You mean bunch of niggers hanging around on some trees hoping to catch something to eat before it is too late ?
Because people know they will be dead before the consequences on the environment become unbearable.
Its just plain old "somebody else's problem" syndrome.
You can't take the sky from me...
They also have a high failure rate in use (especially infant mortality). Somebody once told me that Motorola didn't allow tantalum caps in pagers simply because too many of them spontaneously die. Ceramics cost more, but the savings on warranty returns and poor customer experience paid for it.
It's only just now that ceramics with a competitive density are available, and they are still rather costly and availability still isn't good. Even then, the same advances that improve ceramics also work for tantalums, which have been getting steadily better too. The move to alternatives is part of the supply improvement, but there's also the fact that cell phones are slumping and manufacturers increased capacity.-- ;-)
Kuro5hin.org: where the good times never end.
This fucking Tax Auditor is posting as AC in respect for other peoples threshold!
I see LA cops beating up black people on TV too. About the police in that fucking city, read the news, they have arrested 500 or so police officer in the last month because of these things.
Yeah, youd better go now.
This process is not an example of globalization at work. It is advanced-industrialized countries extracting resources from poorer countries and leaving little in return. Though I am not attempting to place a value judgement upon it in this comment, I must point out that arguments which attempt to defend globalization are not valid here.
Because there is NO government. The author of the article only stated that about one or fifty times. That might be a super nifty solution in a perfect world, but when you've got no gov't, all bets are off.
And here are the articles from NPR and the United Nations Security Council Report (PDF)
These were also months ago....
Evidently it wasn't interesting then as my submission got rejected.... the heck with Karma...
"narrow-mindness and ignorance hurt the narrow-minded ignorants"
Well, these characteristics are found all over this world and are not specific to US population.
On the other hand, people do adapt to existing conditions and US population relative lack if interest regarding issues abroad reflects stability and power of this country.
"Is that "dont show your face here again" thing your sig? "
It wrong paste , originally destined to end up in other post.
That will get you nothing but a 404 error. Try actually logging out and do it.
When Europeans started colonizing Africa, many Europeans lived in a condition of squalor similar to conditions in African cities today. Ever read Charles Dickens?
Actually, I have, and he makes precisely the point you seem to be denying: rich people fuck over poor people. Was your version from CliffNotes® perhaps?
The simple fact is colonialism destroyed every native society it touched. Your gross apologism for the atrocities that allow you your creature comforts simply shows how great a corporate citizen you are. Better them than you, right?
Rock on, Extropian! Fall into the Gap--and strangle yourself with a Martha Stewart tablecloth while you're there...
You have contributed 6 comments on this topic with no sign of giving up, far more than anybody else.
What gives? Are you mining tantalum or something? You sure seem worked up about it.
R.
Capacitors have been around a long time, but capacitors made from tantulum instead of some other material are somewhat more recent.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Maybe it's because the US is still a relatively young (adolescent) nation?
I'm glad you have taken time to stand up and set the ignoramuses straight.
In the space of a few minutes you've gone from saying "There were no African economies" to saying the "natives had absolutely no chance in even attempting to oppose European conquest". So you've abandoned your original argument and moved on to merely stating the obvious -- that Africa was simply conquered at gunpoint. I rest my case.
After reading the article it looks like it is getting better. The way that consumer electronics are going I bet we will only need this particular mineral for another 20 years at most then something else will be used. So the impact will be temporary at most
The author even admits their bias in this paragraph:
Later a scientist offers a rational viewpoint:
The overall conclusion I draw from the article is this:
The Congo is in political and military turmoil right now, which has little to do with the tantalum mining.
Some Congolese are capitalizing on the tantalum demand and raising their standard of living, while others squander their money on prostitutes.
The "mining" is causing little environmental damage; the people are just digging holes by hand (it's not strip mining).
Another anti-globalization bleeding heart liberal journalist is blaming everyone and everything but the real cause of the problems.
A mine in New Mexico used to supply the world's need for tantalum; they still have many 100s of tons of reserves. Canada also produces the metal at Tanco (TANtalum COrporation). It is only slightly cheaper to obtain the metal from Zaire. It is an available metal with many sources. Don't worry. Tantalum will flow. This is talk from an economic geologist. Marcus Origlieri marcus@geo.arizona.edu
It's not the hours and the pressure: it's the wages for that labour combined with the preceding 2 factors. How many coders and lawyers do you know personally who work for US$5 a day?
None. I rest my case.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
"We introduced them to a government-controlled and -aided exploitation of their natural resources and human rights, in return for jack squat. "
This argument is pathetic for the simple reason that they would have "jack squat" anyway because they did not know how to use their riches.
I simply think they are better off now then they were before.
A fucking tax auditor from a country where Police is hunting undesirable kids for elimination has spoken about freedom. ...
This is fucking too much for me, I better go now
Bah. Opinions from /.ers on social justice (where it doesn't directly affect Open Source Software) are as generally as relevant and informed as Barney the Dinosaur's opinion on the DMCA.
Fuck you, you self-satisfied, self-important, self-obsessed twerps.
Opinions raised vary between "screw you jack, i'm all right" and "duh, why don't they just become more american".
Christ can't you people grasp that there are some more important issues than the price of components for your latest toys?
Can you not attribute any significance to injustices that *don't* directly affect you personally?
No wonder the rest of the world is sick to death of wealthy, white American technocrats. The *only* reason we keep swollowing your shit is because it's rammed down our throats.
Fuck you.
I cannot believe that for one minute, why would a country that spent so long getting rid of Belgium's control suddenly give up their freedom and ask for them back? Or do you mean get some Europeans in to tidy the place up and kick them out again?
running water is something to dream about.
No, it's not. It's something to work for. Tin roof, scooter, gas, etc. those you can all whine about. But not water.
And that doesn't mean workign at slave wages for some corporation. It means working with the other villagers (or on your own) to dig a well, or an irrigation canal. South American Natives had an enourmous canal system built - 12,000 years ago. They didn't have tin roofs, or scooters either.
They did it because if they didn't they would all die of failed crops and no water.
There are a lot of terrible things being done in the world today. But what's worse, is the expectation that someone should have to help you, simply because your "less fortunate."
Screw that. If your village won't help you dig a well, leave the village and find one that will. If you can't and you have no voice or ability to change things, start killing people. It won't solve the problem, but you'll eliminate a lot of obstacles to progress. And if you don't get killed in retaliation, you may even rule that country some day, and you can be the first benevolent dictator on that continent.
If the people of the developed world could just see past their greed and cynicism and maybe recapture just a kernel of the vision that we used to have not too long ago, perhaps the lands of Brazil and Siberia (and Alaska?) and the people of Congo and Nigeria and all the other places of the world unfortunate enough to have some useful industrial substance could begin to heal.
So, try to do something useful with your tax refund and give it to an organization which is trying to do something. Please.
Why do you cranks keep complaining about this? If you don't like it, don't reading the freaking article. (Nudge nudge.)
Is it really necessary to complain every time a NYT link is posted? Do you really expect us all to boycott the New York Times just because you're too lazy to give them a fake e-mail address and zip code? Give me a break.
Mainly because the Balkans is right in the EU's backyard, remember we were only bombing across the Adriatic about 150 miles from Italy. All this going on in their backyard was a disgrace, so you limit the fallout.
The Balkans has been a thorn in the side of western Europe for centuries and was the trigger for WWI, so I guess they want to finally sort the place out.
Africa is seen as distant in some countries including the US, and they doesn't really express much interest in what's going on there, including genocide. However some countries have taken a belated interest in Africa, Britian returned to their former colony of Sierra-Leone to originally free some rebels, I think they lost 3-4 soldiers in this exercise.
It seems they've stayed on to help fight back the rebels and kit out then train government troops. According the BBC World Service, people in Britain have labelled this as neo-colonialism and have questioned why their forces are even out there, since they're overstretched enough. But peculiarly, the Sierra-Leone government seems to welcome of their presence.
On a related note, what's the justification for a Western country to go these countries, fight a resource intensive war, loose men, spend millions building infrastructure (remember there's no slaves to do like before) then get kicked out and denigrated as oppressors?
The above is basically what happened to the British Empire, sure it wasn't nice, but the oft used reasoning comparisons makes it sound worse than Nazi Germany, why would any country desire that labelling on their character for centuries?
Besides, there's plenty of tantalumin in Australia, it's just more expensive to extract it because of higher labor costs, but those costs are certainly cheaper than annexing some country.
The poor fucking babies. Damnit, when will people realize that human being are NO DIFFERENT than any other animals on the planet, and shouldn't be treated any differently. If some die, let them die.
http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/08/12/magaz ine/12C OLTAN.html
I've never had a NYTimes account and this works for me.
Material and technological progress is easy, now try social progress and see how far you get in a hundred years.
And this is the fundamental problem with pure capitalism. The object is to make a profit, right? Well, what corporations are doing is making a profit.
"So," says the capitalist, speaking in a purely rhetorical fashion, "what's the problem?"
Capitalism may work really well economically speaking, but only when the people who participate are EQUAL. In other words, they have to have the ability, socially and economically, to start up a competitor and drum the first guy out of business. This is not what is happening in third-world countries. It's not even what's happening in the United States. Profit is great, but human dignity is better. Capitalism needs controls on it in order to function in an ethical fashion in a society in which not everyone has the same opportunities. And sadly, Europe and the United States are not imposing those controls effectively, probably because the profit that the corporations accrue allows them to donate and lobby and get their government to do what they want.
"So," says the capitalist, newly enlightened, "what do I do now?"
Agitate for change. Get elected. Spend some money on good, well-researched causes. When you hear someone talking about how capitalism can do no wrong, gently dissuade them. If you're a huge corporation, stop trying to gouge the most out of these countries and act in your own enlightened self-interest -- if the people are treated well, they'll be around and able to work effectively for much longer. Above all, don't ever think that one person can't change things. Be that drop in the bucket. You'll sleep better at night.
"Good" is a slippery term when discussing capacitors. In rf circuits, good means high Q at the frequency of interest, so metal plates with an air-gap between them might be really excellent for some RF applications.
But the applications where tantalum caps are indispensible are those where very large capacitance with very low ESR is needed in a very small space. An example would be the capacitors used in high-current switching power supplies. Air core caps won't work because air has a low dielectric constant and a low dielectric breakdown voltage. Because air has these properties, air-core caps cannot be made small enough for microfarad range capacitors. Aluminum electrolytics are often used in this application, but when size is of the utmost importance, even aluminum electrolytics are too big. That's when tantalum cap's are used.
Teflon is an awesome dielectric material. It has low leakage, high breakdown voltage, and a fairly high dielectric constant. It also behaves pretty well at high frequencies. Still, to the best of my knowledge, there are no teflon capacitors available that can top tantalum when low ESR, small size, and high capacitance per unit volume at low voltages are all taken into account.
MM
--
By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
This comment was up to 4 and got modded back down to 2. It should at least be at 3. Someone with points make things right. :-)
"Stop judging everyone under your values. "
You just wrote reasonably big rant judging US by your set of values and definitions.
Don't show our face here again.
Yeah......superfund sites. There's a bunch of political bullshit for you.
I grew up in the mining area near what is now the Bunker Hill Superfund Site. You know what they do there? They remove lead from the ground in the area. Do you know what Bunker Hill did when they were a mining and smelting company? Hmmmmmm....give you three guesses.
When it's done to make a profit it's called mining. When it's done as a socialist excuse to spend tax dollars and beat up people who are trying to make a buck, well then we call it a superfund site. But a rose by any other name is still a rose. And that superfund site is just a mine with a different name and a not-for-profit management.
Don't go looking at the superfund sites in this country to compare us to the third world. It just doesn't work that way.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Tantalum capacitors are to popular because of their high capacity and low equivalent series resistence (ESR). There are, however, some alternatives by now. A good candidate is the multi layer ceramic capacitor which reaches almost the same specific capacity values and same low series resistence characteristics. They are, however, still much more expensive then the tantalum capacitor types. They are more expensive though.
Methinks you are focusing a little too much on the Congo region. certain areas of Africa (e.g., Egypt, Ethiopia, Lybia, Algeria) have been civilized, with significant infrastructure, since they days when most of Europe's peoples were running around wearing furs and mud.
Finding God in a Dog
All right, AC. Please tell the crowd here just how -you- personally have altered your lifestyle in order to minimise the impact on the environment. I hope that you do not drive a car, live in a house with lights and air conditioning, use a computer or eat food that you have not grown and processed yourself, because if you do, you are impacting the environment.
Absolutely right. If those with power wish to keep that power at any price, they will until their power is taken away from them. In the case of corporations, this has to come from the shareholders deciding that they won't support any company which does these kinds of things. Obviously, that is not going to happen, there will always be a lot of people who, if given the option, will be glad to profit from the misfortunes of others. It has always been, and sadly will always be. So that leaves the government. This has to come from our votes. We have to vote for people who will not allow corporations to make slaves of the third world, or be slave masters themselves. And while we're at it, can we lock up the executives of companies for human rights violations? That's a decent deterrant for the CEO of Intel or Nike. No more sweatshops or you will go to prison.
The REAL sam_at_caveman_dot_org is user ID 13833.
"No wonder the rest of the world is sick to death of wealthy, white American technocrats. The *only* reason we keep swollowing your shit is because it's rammed down our throats."
No, the reason you keep swallowing is because WE ARE THE ONLY REMAINING SUPERPOWER AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO IMPOSE OUR RED WHITE and BLUE WILL WHEREVER AND WHENEVER THE FUCK WE WANT TO.
As if some other country would be a better superpower. Who would you rather be in power? Russia? China?? You think you'd get a fair deal from them?!?
Stupid cunts. The rest of the world should be happy as fuck that the U.S. is large and in fucking charge.
Now drink up those gallons of Made in the U.S.A. cum, bitch.
Why do users with IDs under 100,000 or over 700,000 usually have the most worthwhile comments?
almost all o fthose poor conditions did not exist until industrialized European countries and the United States decided to change them into colonies
This is true in a sense because poverty is only relative. When the Europeans came to Africa, they created poverty by introducing superior wealth.
The same thing happens today in developing countries resulting in families leaving rural life for the cities in order to earn more to save up to buy the new necessities: a motorbike, tv, factory-made clothing, etc. Even bringing education to a country creates poverty in those who miss out on it and creates illiterates out of formerly normal people.
But I'd never advocate trying to keep people isolated or to discourage them from taking advantage of the products of the modern world. I'd like our wealthier countries to help people to live the way they want, whether it's being left alone in their mountain tribe or saving up to buy a telephone.
-Bruce
For all the percieved evils of the Soviets they (to the best of their "internationalist" doctrine) tried to help bring African countries up from the misery.
CIA (and MI5 and whatever the fsck French call their spy shop) killed Patrice Lumumba and many other leaders in countries like Angola and Mozambique for daring to cuddle up to the Commies instead the "benevolent" colonial masters. But Soviet enthusiasm ran out in 1980's and Soviet Union itself ran out in 1990's.
What's really awkward is that with the tremendously valuable natural resources of the Congo (this article's focus, diamonds), it could have a standard of living nearing that of the richer middle eastern countries. Too bad western exploitation ruined the country. Have you heard about the new movie about the assasination of the Congolese president? How accurate is that to what you hear from your friends?
The Grim Reaper has probably had some commemorative sickles forged to celebrate the bountiful harvests those places have given him.
It's the only industry they have. It's the only way to make money. Yes it's unpleasant, and they're probably being shafted by the First World, but that's just life.
Sometimes you do just have to spend your working day waist-deep in manky water rooting through mud.
If you force the price of tantalum ore up by increasing the amount paid to the miners, the companies that buy it will go somewhere else.
If that happens, the mines will close. Now the mines may not be very environment-friendly, but if they close, what are the miners going to do? Get jobs in Gap and Starbucks?
Dude... WTF is a "valuable resource"?
Anything could be valuable to anybody. Who knows... 10000 years from now, we might have destroyed our entire civilization (or what we consider to be civilization, that is) due to war or just total chaos of some kind.
Lets say that the people in the Congo are the first to rebuild a new civilization from scratch.
They have something their entire society is completely dependant on; it's called an "arithmachine". But it needs to be made out of a few common metals, as well as something called Deletium.
Deletium can only be found in America. Specifically, in the northwest region, near where Seattle is now. The people of the Congo, civilized as they are, feel it is their right to exploit the poverty-stricken and corruption-plagued Americans for deletium. Which essentially translates directly to profit.
Now when deletium is valuable, do you want your great^83-grandkids to be mining it for slave wages, with no hope of self-determination or even a better job?
If you were not so well armed, you USians would be the funniest breed in the world, even without Dennis Miller or Dana Carvey.
Ive been ther a few times, I lived there for a while. I was amazed when I saw someone on TV or at an University setting claiming that the U.S. should not do business (actually *buy* things) from nations that did not respect basic human rights. Though thats not what the article says, Id say it falls in the same broad category of narrow perspective.
Sweatshops? Is that what do you call a place where one has to work for more than 12 hours a day under pressure? Like a law firm in D.C. or some programming shops in CA? No matter these guys are working so as to be able to afford their condos or wine&dine twice a week, its still food and housing, only at first-world standards. Not too different from minework in Congo, given ones expectations. Thanks God I have to work only 8 hours a day, if I ever do more than that its because I want to.
How about human rights? Where I live an employee is entitled 30 days of vacation every 12 month period. Oh, you dont in the U.S., would that be a human right violation? Children are allowed to work here after they are 16, is that a HR violation? Whos to say? You think its fine to show a kids face on TV and screw him for the rest of his life if he has been charged with some felony even before conviction? You cant do it here even after conviction. You think you live in a free country? I never felt so oppressed and watched and under someones monitoring as I did while in the U.S.. Granted, I was living in D.C., but I think the average urban USian is yet to experiment real freedom. Maybe that would explain their behaviour when they come over... I could do this the whole day (even without mentioning U.S. foreign policy), but the point is: you have to broaden your horizons! Stop judging everyone under your values. They are good, very good indeed, but they dont work all over the world! Youll only profit from that.
Though thats not what the article says, Id say it falls in the same broad category of narrow perspective.
The artical spesificaly said that the Coltrain was helping Congo, not hurting it. And though the miners sloshed around in the mud quite a bit, they didn't seem to unhappy with anything other then the falling price.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Racism is a form of prejudice where one judges another based on the color of their skin. :)
Racism, is NOT a bad thing, nor is it a problem.
A prejudice of race (racism) is when you use known generalities of the group as a whole to decide how to deal with a member of a race - any race.
It's the same as with snakes, for example. A random snake may not be poisonous, but knowing as I do that many snakes ARE poisonous, I'm going to assume the one hissing/rattling at me is too.
Being relatively non stupid, I would back away from the snake, admitting my inability to tell if it really is poisonous. I, for example, would not say "Isn't she gorgeous!" and pick it up
The problem that people jump to label as racism isn't. The problem is when people who form the basis for an opinion, based on past experience (firsthand or in the case of stero-types/common knowledge (factual or otherwise) thirdhand) refuse to modify their opinion in the face of contrary fact.
An example of this is all asians know kung-fu. First, because kung-fu is a traditionally Chinese skill. Second because most Chinese don't know kung-fu. The generality was formed because at the time, most practioners of kung-fu were Chinese, and non-asians didn't really see the big deal in lumping them all togehter, much as with happened in Congo.
The problem is NOT racism, it is ignorance (sometimes willful). The problems caused by dumb racists aren't caused by their being racist, but by them being dumb.
You haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about. None. You are a typical uneducated spoiled pampered suburban neoliberal slob with no knowledge of history other than the occasional tidbits you manage to pick up from Hollywood movies.
The truth hurts. Yelling won't change that.
What about the weirding modules? They are the most important part of the Dune universe.
You are not going to draw attention to these undoubtedly important issues running around with nickname "small dick".
...
Just a suggestion
A lot of the big oil companies have/had mercenary armies in Africa to 'secure' (ie, break up unions, blow up rebels) oil facilities.
consoles are sold as a platform for running software. end of story. They could give the consoles away and still turn a profit. The real money does NOT come from the hardware. It comes from software. They charge for the box to get money upfront to cover initial development and actual build/ship costs. After they recoup these costs it is all gravy. Every title released for the console includes in it's price a kickback to the hardware platform maker. Remember back to BillG vs. IBM RE: dos and windows IBM thought it was all about the hardware. Gates knew it was all about the software. If you can run linux chances are high that you will also write or use free or at least non-sony software. This translates to Sony making less money from licensing of software for their boxes. Hence they will wait as long as possible. Or, even longer.
comment directly in my journal
The kicker about Hunter's Point is that the city is really having to lean on the Navy hard to get them to clean the place up. They only this year quietly admitted the existence of the radioactive goop. Before, we thought it was just PCBs!
really the new world order is about keeping the niggers down aint it? asian niggers,african niggers , latino niggers , slavic niggers, etc. keep um bewilderd, living in crappy police states, . warlords of niggerdom ! what an aspiration. i keep hoping that South Africa and Nigeria will say fuck you to the first world and annex ten other "countries" in their neighborhoods and start making a couple of viable nations. would be a long bloody haul though wouldnt it? losing my virginity coming of age
There are other capacitive substances. We can cook up more... Tantalum is not critical...
I believe it happened in XX century ...
That's funny... I live in that area.., oh wait that's not funny. Time to move.
If only I could trade old cap's for the "affections" of young women...
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I spent a year in Iraq looking for WMD and all I found was this lousy sig.
>When the game was written (late 80s sometime?) >was all this going on?
It's been going on since at least the 1960's.
One of my good friends in college (in the 80's)
was born in Congo, and remembers the Zairois revolution. Most of the French and US people
who were living there fled for their lives.
I don't know about tantulum specifically, but it
is not the only resource that is exploited in this way.
Hate to say it, but technically speaking, the article and the post are both way off. Tantalum isn't "the crucial ingredient in capacitors", and the electronics industry doesn't "depend on this stuff" at all. Most caps are made with ceramic materials (e.g. clays) or paper soaked in an electrolytic solution, but there are many other dielectrics available, like polypropylene, mica, etc., each with their own favourable characteristics.
The nice thing about tantalums is that they are very small for the amount of capacitance they have - hence their popularity in PDAs and celphones. But they're expensive, and polarised - you have to plug them in the right way, or they literally blow up. They also can't tolerate much overvoltage.
For the things that tantalums are most often used for (power-supply filtering), a kind of capacitor called multilayer ceramic actually works better. These are made mostly from nickel powder, and they're much cheaper and tougher. They're also non-polarised, which can reduce assembly costs, and they don't depend on hard-to-get tantalum powder.
Last year there was a shortage of tantalum powder, which made tantalum caps really hard to get. Now word is getting out that the new breed of multilayer ceramic chip caps can do just as well, people aren't using tantalums nearly as much as they were. I think this is the real reason for the tantalum ore crash.
"... Today, the valley is home to more EPA Superfund sites (29) than any other county in the nation, with the most notorious of those sites -- from a leaking tank at a Fairchild Semiconductor fabrication plant -- poisoning a well that served the south San Jose neighborhood of Los Paseos. A subsequent study by the state's Department of Health Services found 2.5 to three times the expected rate of miscarriages and birth defects among pregnant women exposed to the contaminated drinking water, leading to a lawsuit and multimillion-dollar settlement in 1986 with over 250 claimants...."
Full two-part story at Salon, 7/30/01 and 7/31/01:
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/07/30/almad en1/index.html
Or even that mining in the Congolese National Park is illegal, not to mention outrageous? How can it be illegal ? there is no government, therefor no laws to break.
But seriously Europeans do seem to have a more positive attitude towards Africa(compared to Americans), I am not sure exactly why.
The only reason all cover-ups appear to fail is that you never hear about the ones that succeed.
And we humans are self-aware enough to realize this is happening, yet are too incompetent and self-centered to do anything about it.
It's fscking pathetic.
I had to wait an extra 3 months for my Playstation 2! Grand Turismo 3 ROX! * * * Hey moron, read the fucking article. There IS NO REGIME "currently in place". Just a bunch of poor desperate people with a means of making money, that without things like the Playstation 2 or cell phones, they wouldn't have.
I'll agree that there are definitely problems there, but whatever happened to objective journalism? From the first sentence, the author has convicted every cell phone user of some crime against humanity.
The article reads worse than some flamebait & troll posts I've seen here on Slashdot. Of course, it is in the NY Times, which is hardly an unbiased news source.
Yeah... and just look back to Victoria's reign, huge fat ass women powered so white they looked dead were considered en vogue (or "hot" if you will), I don't think we can't judge our history from social commentary 200-300 years ago.
that these "sweatshop" workers need to pick up the slack! Hell, they're allowed five minute breaks! And clothes! All I know is that I still have to pay $120 for a motherboard. These natives need to have their asses kicked into gear. By America!
"Before you blast them, think about WHICH countries in the western hemisphere are driving this"
...
Blacks were always used by every culture they happened to be in contact with.
It is obvious that these people lack skills to create any sort of organized society and this basic fact was exploited by countless others ( Europeans, Arabs )
Don't like that ? Too bad
Did who hear me crying about damage to the environment?
almost all o fthose poor conditions did not exist until industrialized European countries and the United States decided to change them into colonies
Africa was being used/abused by european powers long before the US was the US. If we're going to toss blame around, toss it in the right direction.
Lets not forget the US was a colony, under the control of a colonial power. The French, English, Dutch and Spanish hold the blame for most of the colonization. Do you people not remeber what was meant by the "British Empire"? Now I have no problem with the pratice of colonization, it opened up the world through it's exploration and moved modern (I.E. western) civilazation to the hights it now enjoys.
I also see this as largely an issue of evolution. The third world is evolving, some things will die off, others will be made stronger. Nothing wrong with that.
Well first of all, if you have the flu, the measles and the chicken pox all at once, you don't say "Hey, who cares if I catch pneumonia!" Just because you have lots of problems doesn't mean that it;s okay to have more.
If anything, the establishment of mining and factories will add stability to the region, since the companies want to protect their money and investment.
Secondly, did you actually read the article? There are no companies. There are no factories. And those mines are holes in the ground dug by people (roughly organized into "camps"). It's still anarchy, not good financial planning.
Besides, you only get to mine your natural resources once, then they're gone. The article says that the money from coltan mining is not going into infrastructure like schools and roads. So what happens when the coltan is gone? Evenyone's actually worse off than they started, because there's no more money to be made by mining, and you've gained nothing that can increase the country's wealth in the long run (like schools!) in return.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the Congo been mined for diamonds for 100+ years now? Has it done any good? Why do you think the coltan situation will be different?
What a piece of bullshit.
Sure, they had no "problems" with lack of running water, sanitation, adequate medical care and other basic services. They weren't even aware things like that existed.
They did not fight over natural resources or diamonds for the simple reason they had no need for these.
"at the expense of the African ones."
There were no African economies. Wherever Europeans showed they found bunch of people living exactly the same way for thousands of years. Any sort of infrastructure these people have is leftover from colonial times.
Harsh but true.
Dude, they're digging holes. Even the guy running the park said the impact wasn't really that great.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Tribal societies don't count? They got along fine as farmers and hunter gatherers. Colonization over complicated things, and left vacuums that are now the anarchistic conditions we see today. The point is that *other* countries were the ones fucking things up. The original inhabitants were not so sophisticated, but they knew not to destroy their own back yard.
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
sounds good to me. They should have done that in Quebec and Genoa too. And I'm not talking about that weak-ass "police brutality" bullshit either. I'm talking Tiananmen Square. These little college kids always talk about how they're "militant" movements and "mass revolutionaries" so it's time to start treating them as militant revolutionaries and see how they like it. Sometimes it sucks, but they need their little college campus playworld bubble popped, otherwise every year we'll have the same white people with dreadlocks looting the city d'jour.
Umm - can anybody name ANY 19th-20th Century Italian colonization effort that succeeded? I can't. Can anybody name a German or British one that failed?
Yugoslavia is itself a neo-colonial construct -- back then the fashion was to collect all the wogs who talk the same wog-speak (I use this racist term because my parents are from that part of the world, and the term describes the caricature of the foreign other in what passes for polite discourse these days), package them into one country, select the leader of one group of wogs, not necessarily the majority faction, and make that man King of the whole lot. It is ironic that the current fashion is to encourage Yugoslavia to break up into as many pieces as possible, down to that independence war within Macedonia, itself a pretty small piece.
The result of ham-handed (British) intervention of this sort are evident in the Middle East -- many of the Middle Eastern countries were assembled in just that manner -- Iraq, Jordan, and Israel come to mind.
Western intervention is often neither enlightened nor helpful.
Not necessarily. Now instead of starving this year in a lush environment, they will starve next year in a ruined environment.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
congo and it's people provide the goods that the high tech industry wants, and they get richly awarded(by their standards, anyway) for it.
To me, i see no losers in this exchange.
And don't forget the consumer, who benefit from the better technology and cheaper prices.
Everybody is happy.
The third world is evolving, some things will die off, others will be made stronger. Nothing wrong with that.
Except that some of these "things" are people...
~~~
Yeah, like those Oil companies in Africa who shoot and kill innocent protestors and all these 'anarchists' to protect their investment.
Hehehe. ...
Well, many studies in US proved that Blacks do posses lesser IQ
I do not believe in IQ measuring but looks like these studies were correct.
One has to only take look at history of Africa to see that Blacks are unable to compete with other races.
You might not like this but it is true and calling others racist is not going to change that.
In the United States, people get murdered for their shoes. What the hell kind of social progress is that?
Before everyone (esp in the USA) start talking about how the Congo government should do more to stop this and how the Congonese people should care about the environment, give a thought to the actual condition of the country.
Rocked by internal problems (civil war in this case), these countries simply don't have money! Neither the people or the government. Before you blast them, think about WHICH countries in the western hemisphere are driving this. Its going to take some time for third world countries to rise. Change doesn't happen overnight so give these people a chance.
Tantalum is used in Tantalum capacitors, electronic devices that hold an electrical charge.
The article doesn't seem to mention that Aluminum capacitors can be used instead. Aluminum capacitors are larger and cheaper than Tantalum, and they may have significantly more inductance. But, in most cases thet can be substituted. Usually the only problem is finding the space on a circuit board.
Bush's education improvements were
Correction: there were no Dutch people involved in the Congo at all.
Originally it was the private property of the Belgian übermastah king leopold 3. That was when you had the chopping off of limbs from stubborn and recalcitrant natives.
Later it became a belgian colony, so in essence it was mostly controlled by the french speaking belgian bourgeois rulling elite and the christian fundamentalist royal family. The former and the latter certainly knew about the plans to assasinate lumumba and probably played a mayor role also.
A part of belgian also speaks dutch though but they were a suppressed majority rulled by their french speaking masters.
(Off-topic: on a side note: the belgian royals also helped fund massah pinochet.)
So the situation over there is mostly the result of the managerial actions of ruling clique of french and english speaking masters(copyright Adam Smith)and it just doesn't do to talk about 'the Dutch' or 'the Belgians' and all the stuff 'they' did.
Sure, the story sounds appaling -- notably the way Mama D. exploits her workers. But do you really think any other business is different? You like having a car, right? Hundreds if not thousands of Mama D.'s went into the production of it. They're called entrepreneurs, and we'd all be living in the dirt without them.
The workers are thrilled to make $80 a day -- it's 400 times what they'd make otherwise. They're overjoyed to trade some muck they dug up for whores and antibiotics and beer and cash. Nobody's forcing them to do it -- they can always go back to whatever they used to do. Without someone "exploiting" them, they'd be bored and poor.
If you're really concerned about this kind of thing, how about asking the guy who cleans the the toilets at work how much he gets paid to do it. Or the people who pick the oranges so you can have a morning glass of OJ. Or just about anything else you enjoy.
--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Yes. Humans are just another species of animals. Shit happens. My cat's ancestors probably wouldn't have wanted to spend their lives as cute and furry things to pet.
Over the last 2000 years the whole food change has been rearranged many times, why expect the next 2000 or 10000 years to be different?
Oh so natives managed to make a spear and couple of roughly processed pieces of metal ?
Where is bibliography regarding existence of advanced, European level industry ?
Do you even have a fucking idea which age are talking about here ?
Does the fact that natives had absolutely no chance in even attempting to oppose European conquest mean anything to you ?
Guess what? Your own back yard would be an exotic wilderness if it hadn't been chopped down and paved over. You like nature? Then live in a poor country. Want to afford college? Start those bulldozers.
100+ years? Hardly. Diamonds are basically an invention of 20th century marketing.
I lived in what is now the DRC for three years, and the standard of living there is such that few North Americans can actually conceive what it is like.
The average annual income is $110 US and most families have to have a garden otherwise they wouldn't be able to eat. People think nothing of walking 10-20 miles a day to work and back. If you can afford a small scooter then you're considered a wealthy man. In villages, it is considered sheer luxury to have a tin roof on your mud hut. For most families any kind of vehicle other than an old bicycle is completely out of the question, and running water is something to dream about.
In such living conditions, any work (even nasty, hard work) that pays well can be a real relief when you have a dozen mouths at home (wife, kids, cousins, parents, etc). I'm not saying that its great, and I think that things could definately be improved, but its definately better than some of the other options that they have
The US Military and CIA are funding the drug and tantalum murders, providing weaponry and equipment for guerrillas throughout Latin America, as well as electronic monitoring equipment that allows right wing candidates to monitor their opponents.
Link to CIA/Military involvment on The Center for Public Integrity.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
For example, consider this excerpt:
Hope that clears things up.
MM
--
By including this sig, the copyright holders of this work or collection unreservedly place it in the public domain.
I imagine it is against the rules of combat or the geneva convention or whatever it is. We also tried unsuccesfully to either commit or fund assasination attempts against Castro and Hussein, not to mention that we just broke the ABM and Kyoto treaties so it's not like we give a flip about international law anyway. Oh yeah, there's also the whole Sklyarov situation - who knows how many international laws we're breaking with that one.
Racist and false.
You haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about. None. You are a typical uneducated spoiled pampered suburban neoliberal slob with no knowledge of history other than the occasional tidbits you manage to pick up from Hollywood movies.
Here's a bibliography for you. Go read some of the works cited, if you can find any that don't exceed your reading level. Then come back and express an informed opinion.
Wasn't that illegal at the time? Didn't the UN forbid its members from participation in assasination? I would laugh my ass to see the US at trial for murder and the people in the CIA who would be 70-90 years old now imprisoned.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
except for the Ethiopians successfully resisting Italian colonial efforts. You have to hand it to them- the only 19th century colonial power to FAIL.
...are belong to U.S!
Ugandan soldiers used to come here, I was told, to force miners to buy beer and cigarettes.
Hey isn't that illegal?!
prosebeforehos.com
You could actually register.
Sham on
Kuwait (And even Congo!) are *second* world countries.
:P
They have something very important that the first world countries need.
(Kuwait - Oil) (Congo - Tantalum).
First world countries are the bullies of the world playground. Second world countries are the kids who get to hang out with them by coughing up their lunch money and taking orders readily. Third world countries? They're the poor kids whose heads are stuck in toilets time and time again.
If they want our good ol' USDA approved beef, they're dun gunan have ta stop havin' dem der civil wars!
Yeah!
Fighting is bad!
Civil wars are ridiculous!
That's why we in the US never fight wars, especially those nasty civil kinds!
Oh, shit, wait.
Damn.
It's easy for some college boy to bitch about other people destroying the environment. All the damage you cuase is distant from you. You think all the luxuries of a first world country come at no cost to the environment?
This is not exactly news anymore. The Industry Standard had an article about the topic on June 11: Guns, Money and Cell Phones
cleanrooms aside the manufacture of chips, boards,
etc are very harmful environmentally. Cali is
facing tremendous arsenic problems from the fabs.
However, this was totally ignored by Bill & Al as
'its the economy stupid'.
I am in no means trying to justify the crap that went on in Colonialism, however we must be naïve to assume places were a harmonious peace loving Eden's before the whities arrived,
There were different tribes that beat the crap out of each other and Kings who lived in luxury through serfdom, the difference was their new oppressors just had different coloured skins.
To say otherwise contravenes the human condition, no culture was or is free of it, remember even developed European countries were continually beating the crap out of each other for centuries until recently, why would you expect anything different in other parts of the world?
The problem is the notion of "postcolonialism." The cultural elite have decided that any level of interference with other cultures is bad. They don't realize that there is a great deal of middle between the wholesale colonial exploitation of the 19th-20th c., and the cold-blooded hands off approach, which has left millions of people at the hands of a few cruel dictators, with poverty, disease, and starvation in attendance.
The reason the rest of the world is like that is because of the industrialized European and North American countries. Learn some history - in this case, Belgium's colonial activity in Africa.
Like when the spanish first got to the americas and "exchanged" their substandard goods for the natives gold.
True enough, but that doesn't justify the US getting into the game in modern history. Neo-colonialism sucks every bit as much as the original version.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
"The reason these people haven't been able to progress is because these conflicts that were induced by outside powers are still going on. "
...
Yeaah, right. Every time we "discovered" new tribe or culture most of these people weren't at all interested in any sort of progress and happily continued to lead their existence they way they had done for thousands of years.
But now, sure, it is our fault they cannot progress
You'be been living in a dream world if you ever thought that the computer industry was squeaky clean. Silicon Valley has the highest density of EPA Superfund sites in the USA. Check out this lovely map of Silicon Valley pollution. If you live in this neighborhood, you'll get cancer for sure. Computer production has never been clean. In fact, it's nearly as dirty as the military. The manufacturers have simply been able to put on a "clean" face for the world.
Change 'www' to 'archive' and have a nice day.
Liberty in your lifetime
I'm naked, but I guess you still might be right right. I was probably produced under less than ideal conditions.
[sigh]
If you had bother reading the article, you would know that innocent farmers are being murdered so rebel gangs can gain access to their tantalum rich land.
These rebel gangs then sell the product to American and European corporations.
Sounds like a major toll to me. But you're right, none of those farmers are starving now. Enjoy your electronic devices.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
Whose fault is that?
After all, if it weren't for Europeans these people wouldn't even know they had valuable resources.
I'm just now reading Dune. Thanks, you made my day.
No, they're not the only option, but they are amazingly good at storing electrical charge. Most of the other caps have lower capacitance, which would lead to larger unit size, which would be deemed "unacceptable" by the market.
Consider going back to the 'luggable' portable computer, or the 'breeze-block' mobile phone, for example.
OTOH, if something new came along that did have such useful dielectric properties, and didn't screw the environment/people, the 'market' would move pretty quickly, I reckon.
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
Wow.
Pull your head out of your ass and think for a minute.
When Europeans started colonizing Africa, many Europeans lived in a condition of squalor similar to conditions in African cities today. Ever read Charles Dickens?
Africa has been a poor place for a long time. A burgeoning population combined with a lack of water and arable land are the source of poverty in many regions of Africa.
In other regions, like Kenya and the former colony of Rhodesia more political factors come to play. The theft and abuse perpetrated by dictators who took advantage of the vacuum created during the pullout of colonial government set the stage for decades of warlords and conflict.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Anyway as an African, I would like to say that although the article probably accurately conveyed the realities of Eastern Congo, that place is majorly F*****ED up even by African standards, because of the long running civil war and lack of ANY govermental infrastructure. Many neighbouring countries such as Tanzania, Kenya and even Uganda are a lot more stable.(OK Uganda has some rebels in the Northern part of the country but it is still much much better than Eastern Congo overall. Congo is the worst case scenario.) For example in the Arusha and Shinyanga regions of Tanzania we have exactly this same kind of mining going on but at least the miners aren't terrorized by random soldiers,(Ok, so they probably have to pay a "commission" to some people... I didn't say it was perfect) the trade is somewhat regulated, and foreign companies that invest are monitored and can work peacefully.
So my basic point is that the lawlessness in Eastern Congo is a sad situation, if this tantalum had been found elsewhere it might have been very beneficial. e.g Botswana has managed to benefit greatly from its diamonds.
Also Congo was a very artificial creation of Colonial powers with many different ethnic groups that don't always get along. This makes a viable political system somewhat difficult. The same problems plague many African states, some more than others.
Here is a good website for on African current events: http://allafrica.com
Rob in Dar Es Salaam
The only reason all cover-ups appear to fail is that you never hear about the ones that succeed.
I submitted that link when the Industry Standard had that article. but did it get accepted? no....... but that's cool. I guess you can't get to all the submissions. maybe more people read the NY Times so you got more submissions this time around? oh well.
Now you know that would just cause the bushmen you believe to be sparse and to have long since integrated into society to adopt the son of one of the current industry representatives as their messiah, resulting in them taking over the world riding elephants, letting hurricanes into mid-west USA and central Asia with nuclear weapons, and shouting loud enough to crack stone floors.
You wouldn't happen to be a grossly obese man who floats around on suspensors, would you?
---
You'd be surprised at the broadband connection available to things crawling around in your hair.
With all due respect, you are out to lunch on this one.
From the Article:
In the 1960's, the Americans waded in. To fight Communism and secure access to cobalt and copper, the Central Intelligence Agency helped bring about the assassination of Congo's first democratically elected prime minister, Patrice Lumumba. That was followed by three decades of White House coddling of his successor, Mobutu Sese Seku, Africa's most famous billionaire dictator, who set a poisoned table for the chaos that followed his eventual overthrow in 1997.
The evil greedy capitalist colonial corporations are NOT helping the situation. Sure, they'll give them the bare minimum to keep them digging or to keep churning out Nike's but they will never allow them to achieve the stability that will allow them to choose not to be exploited.
You're using her as bait, Master!
When you click on the www link, the NYTimes redirects you to a signin page. If you replace www there with archive, you're right, a 404. Replace the original link's www with archive.
Liberty in your lifetime
Replace the 'www' with 'partners', 'archive' or 'library'. And read the article. It changes regularly (currently archive.nytimes.etc).
Voila!
My clue for the day
"-- that Africa was simply conquered at gunpoint. I rest my case."
Of course it was.
It was extremely easy conquest as it common when advanced power takes on people stuck in technological equivalent of bronze-age.
I do not deny the fact that Europeans enslaved much of Africa, I just pointed out that it was possible because enormous technological difference between invaders and natives.
Now your point about how farked up the place is before 'we' got there and how 'we're' a stabalizing influence, well taken. It's true that many places would be content to screw themselves for eternity and capi-colonialism stepping in simply changes the dynamic somewhat but doesn't nesc. create any *more* suffering (different, sure, but not more). People like killing other people. Still, the point is we *could* do better so maybe we *should*. Not just leave, but intervene more positviely. ...
closed minded is as closed minded does
One thing puzzles me: why do the cafeterias for the coltan mines always have a drink machine that doesn't work and a counter staff that takes off lunch at the same time as the rest of the workers?
---
You'd be surprised at the broadband connection available to things crawling around in your hair.
As a matter of fact yes. I mean get some Europeans in to tidy the place up and then kick them out again. Many Africans wonder why we're willing spend money and risk our lives to bring peace to Yugoslavia (white people) but not in Africa. Racism?
Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
Looks like Slashdot put a space in the url, but the end is supposed to be "/12COLTAN.html". Sorry.
Actually, it turns out that pretty much ALL clothes are produced under less-than-ideal conditions. If the clothes themselves were assembled under acceptable conditions, the fabrics from which they are composed were still almost definitely not. I recently read a report (unfortunately I don't have the URL), that essentially said the only way to get clothes in a non-exploitive fashion is to buy them second-hand.
This is a self-referential sig
A rare and expensive commodity is mined from central Africa and there are unsafe working conditions in the mines and violence over access to the deposits?
Gee, I'm surprised.
---
You'd be surprised at the broadband connection available to things crawling around in your hair.
Tantalum caps are only one of the seemingly thousands or varieties of capacitors around. If they all went away today we could easily replace them with other varieties of capacitors. Sure tantalum caps are one of my favorite varieties because of their long life and their low leakage current but there not that essential and if you look at a lot of newer electronics you won't find any tantalums any way because there so dam expensive.
The Industry Standard had an article on this a couple months ago: http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,26784,00 .html.
To put it simply, the modern high-tech world depends on this stuff. And while most of us have images of squeaky-clean chip factories and such -- in marked contrast to sleazy textile sweatshops -- it turns out that this industry has a dark side that takes a major toll on human lives
The sad thing is I think you would be hard pressed to find ANY industry that doesn't depend on some "sleazy textile sweatshop" at some point. I would wager that most of us are wearing at least one piece of clothing produced under less than ideal conditions.
Lets also not forget that caps have been around for a hell of a lot longer than the "modern hi-tech industry".
Ad in classifieds: Pandora's Box (no box) $5
One of my dreams in life is to visit the congo, but I think by the time I get out of college and am able to afford it there will be nothing left, sigh.
Why why why do people have to destroy the environment? They are only killing themselves in the end, what a waste.
Well, back to the grind
-AC
"has a dark side that takes a major toll on human lives. "
I'd think the lack of a job and money would take a greater toll on human lives than dangerous/risky work. I imagine it still beats starvation.
For a website so obsessed with privacy, you'd think it would not link to articles that require free registration for no legitimate reason.
Now, I know that I'll probably be flamed to a crisp for this one, but I really have to say "Who cares?" After all, most people who read /. (I assume) come from the industrialized European countries and the United States. Let's all remember that the standard and style of living enjoyed in those countries is NOT the typical condition of existence for the majority of humanity EVER. Even at the height of Dynastic China and Imperial Rome, two of the most advanced ancient societies, the vast majority of the people lived in absolute squalor and filth, not knowing where their next meal was coming from, if there even was a next meal, etc. Slavery, robbery and murder were all common. Now here comes my admittedly controversial point: the vast majority of the world is still like that. The Congo basin is still like that. The evil greedy capitalist colonial corporations have nothing to do with it. There are all kinds of funky diseases, famines, and ethnic infighting in the area. If anything, the establishment of mining and factories will add stability to the region, since the companies want to protect their money and investment. In short, the next time you feel like whining about the plight of people in the third world, ask yourself "Do I want to live like that?" I suspect the answer is no, and if it is no, please don't stop the wheels of progress from helping them escape.
I'm an Angry Clam. You would be angry too if you were a ball of snot in a shell.
Come on dude, you might be able to fill a plane with beef, but actualy getting it out into the middle of the jungle would be all but imposible...
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Your a racist too. Your prejuidiced that because he's a racist his view can't be correct. Its the same as saying "black people can't be racists because they're black.
Think of the NBA. Name any team that fields five white, latino, european or asian men. Can't, can you? Now name a team that fields five black men.
Not so difficult, is it?
Racism is like any other prejudice. It's a useful basis for making generalization about a specific individual when you have NO OTHER DATA on them.
Racism isn't a problem. It's dumbfscks who can't see the indivudal past the generality who are the problem. And that's not because their racists, its because their ignorant, often deliberately so.
Actually something like this is the only way to save this country. Let me qualify this.
My best friend is born and grew up in Zaire (now the Congo). Her mother is from Zaire and her father is an American who went over in the Peace Corps and eventually become the owner of a diamond mine. Because of her I often hear the news from that country as well as the opinions of the few Congolese who happen to live in this country.
Less than 10 years ago the Congo had roads, electricity, hospitals, schools, an infrastructure. Now there is nothing. My friend describes it as "surreal" the way the country became "not a country" so quickly. Now it's so far gone they cannot recover on their own. Without some outside force strong enough to completely dominate the region nothing will change. It is my personal opinion that most Congolese who are not warlords would actually welcome an invasion from a European power. At least there would be less chance of being murdered by some "soldier" for what pitiful possesions you still own.
Yes I have heard too many times that wearing a better pair of boots than the soldier who confronts you is a capitol offense
Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
In GDW's old role-playing game "2300AD", the tantalum was the primary element in the creation of FTL drives. The Congo became a power center and the nations of the world scrambled to get enough of the stuff, while the recently united African nations on the Congo region charged them out the ass.
When the game was written (late 80s sometime?) was all this going on?
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
and it's exactly the result of colonialism.. You know the story, you want to subjucate a land so create a few internal conflicts that were n't there before. Now that everyone is fighting each other you can stroll in and no one will notice or have time to do anything about it.
Regardless, if you are of European origin then you can be pretty sure that you're oh-so-comfortable life has been subsidised by the suffering of other people.
The reason these people have n't been able to progress is because these conflicts that were induced by outside powers are still going on. I wonder how much progress the US would have achieved if the civil war was still continuing or if the native indians had n't been wiped all but wiped out and were still on a war footing.
And as for progress, when the first British explorers went to Africa they commented on how the women hardly wore anything and therefore their race must somehow be un-civilised. Now go and have a look at how some women dress during summer in the "civilized" world.
When you bought your computer, did you give the maufacturer the bare minumum to keep them selling computers, or did you pay an extra fee to help the copper and tantalum diggers?
but they will never allow them to achieve the stability that will allow them to choose not to be exploited.
The same could've been said of colonial America in the days prior to the revolution.
Belgians exploiting Congo after all.
Nothing much has changed in the last 100 years. White people do not cut
hands and heads anymore but the locals can excel at that too (with an ample
supply of weapons and munitions, of course.
Here is a short happy read of the events and effects of the events on the people of the Congo. Note that comment about being able to supply power for all of sothern Africa along with minerals and fertile land leave the impression they are far from being dirt poor. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/aug2001/cong-a11 .shtml
It sounds to me that this is not really an instance of an area being ruined by corporate greed or the aftermath of colonialism. The real reason there isn't a strong government to try to keep the mining under control is because people are so damned busy fighting each other over ethnic squabbles that the majority of sane people can't keep a stable society going. I wouldn't blame corporations for this. Ultimately, the people who live there are the ones who are either going to insist upon a stable society, or continue on in the mess they have. It's unfortunate and tragic, but there's no way we can make people want to live together peacefully unless they want to. The Middle East, the Balkans and Ireland are examples.
Coltan is the main ingredient in the capacitors that run all your precious little Playstations. The regime currently in place was funded and armed by us, when the previous president was overthrown. They have been cutting the hands of thousands of peasent miners in order to scare them off so that the military dictatorship can step in and reap all the benefits of the sale.
So for those of you who think you had nothing to do with it, you're wrong.
The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 'I never died', said he.
This will continue happening, if not over this, then over Nike shoes, or who knows what's next. We read an article like this using our computers made on the backs of the third world, say "Oh that's terrible" then go back to depending on the cheap prices you pay for their sweat. The only way anything will change is for everyone to stop sitting on their hands and make a statement against this kind of activity.
Here in the US we depend on getting stuff dirt cheap even if that means hurting people in other countries. We're only willing to help people in third world countries if it will be beneficial to us (eg: Kuwait).
Everyone in the US (myself included) needs to take a step back and realize how much we are destroying the entire world in order to give ourselves comfortable lives.