The Economy of Everquest

Gr0und_zer0 writes: " A Cal State professor is currently conducting an economic survey of Everquest players which will be used to write a paper he plans to submit to an academic journal. It will be very interesting to see how this turns out and if it actually is published. Maybe we will learn the Everquest platinum to be favorable to some of those devalued third world currencys floating around. So much for living in reality, who needs the stock market these days, I'll invest in Everquest."

Comments

virtual economic system...

[L-Train8]

Weird. Do real world economic class/social issues translate to the virtual world? I can't help but think that all he's going to find out is that the people who spend the most time playing have the richest characters, though. The Everquest market shouldn't really follow normal economic rules, because it is a constructed economic model, created to maximize game enjoyment, not reality.

Re:virtual economic system...

[Chester K]

Weird. Do real world economic class/social issues translate to the virtual world?

Not really. EverQuest's economy is rather different than Real World economies because there's only one original supplier, the game's NPCs, none of the goods decay or wear out with the exception of food (which can be freely summoned), and there are no taxes or such.

Unlike a Real World economy, over time, everyone in the EverQuest economy will gather more money, which leads to a strong, steady drop in the value of platinum, the currency. That's fine for a game, everyone can be a winner, but I don't know if a study of it will turn up any findings that are relevant in the real world.

Re:virtual economic system...

[rgmoore]

The Everquest market shouldn't really follow normal economic rules, because it is a constructed economic model, created to maximize game enjoyment, not reality.

Well, it sounds as though that's not necessarily all that they're studying. Some of their descriptions made it sound as though they're at least partly interested in a descriptive study. They want to know what kinds of activity people are involved in, for instance. That's not necessarily hard core analytical economics, but the descriptive statistics that they get from studies like that are the grist for the mill of later, more quantitative studies.

At the same time, why should the fact that the economy is entirely artificial prevent it from behaving like the real world? The people who designed the game are obviously most familiar with the real world economy, so some of their basic assumptions are going to be framed in terms of conventional economics. Equally, if not more, important is that the players who are implementing the economy are also trained in the conventional, meat space economy. When they're thrust into an artificial economy, they're going to respond with the same general types of behavior that they'd exhibit in meat space. The exact details may be shaped by the nature of the game economy, but the assumptions made by the people involved are going to have a tremendous impact on the overall outcome.

Re:virtual economic system...

[Chester K]

The people who designed the game are obviously most familiar with the real world economy, so some of their basic assumptions are going to be framed in terms of conventional economics.

Not necessarily. Due to the massively multiplayer aspect of the game, an in-game economy would have popped up no matter what, just because people want to interact and trade with each other. There aren't any economists on the EQ development team.

Re:virtual economic system...

[Rinikusu]

Actually, not necessarily, either. Platinum is still a treasured commodity for lower levels. Why? Because it's still hard to get unless you have "uber friends" and such. Who wants to give you a loan when you're level 5 and have no way of paying it back until you're level 50? No, doesn't work that way. Not to mention that people cancel their accounts all the time, effectively destroying the platinum they may have hoarded. True enough, platinum does not play a *major* role later in the game, as it is somewhat easily obtained. Most people that I know only start "hoarding" platinum when they get a hair up their ass and want to learn a skill, like tailoring or jewelry.

Re:virtual economic system...

[Kierthos]

The problem is, it takes resources to make that bottle of Coke. Glass or plastic and the various ingredients.

In EverQuest, if I need the resources to make something, I can either buy them, find them, kill mobs and loot their corpses for them, have a magician summon them, borrow from someone in my guild, etc. There are numerous ways to produce items without depleting resources because, there are no actual limits on what can be extracted from the 'environment' of EQ. (I.e. me and 500 other people can fish off the docks of Qeynos for weeks on end and we'll still catch little fishies.)

And because there are no resource costs associated with producing items or 'making' money, there is effectively an infinite supply. Only a small percentage gets 'recycled' by buying from NPC merchants. Trust me, after about 15th level, the only time most PCs use merchants is to either sell loot that no one else wants to buy (at a vastly lower then market value rate, which is one of the reasons no one uses the damn merchants) or to buy food and water when you don't have a pet caster to summon them for you.

Considering that I can kill mobs all day long and make money, and I suck at EQ, anyone who is good at it can make enough plat to outfit however they need.

Kierthos

Re:virtual economic system...

[swillden]

Unlike a Real World economy, over time, everyone in the EverQuest economy will gather more money, which leads to a strong, steady drop in the value of platinum, the currency.

Not as much as you might think. There are outlets for plat in the game: quests, spells, trade skills, some merchant-only items and, at higher levels, access to areas of the planes all consume plat. Also, there's the fact that over time each player tends to create multiple characters, each of which has a separate bank account and inventory, which dilutes the supply of platinum and items.

In fact, in practice, platinum doesn't seem to devalue nearly as fast as the items you buy with it. The net effect is one of near constant deflation, as opposed to one of constant inflation (drop in currency value).

Re:virtual economic system...

[gnovos]

only one original supplier, the game's NPCs, none of the goods decay or wear out with the exception of food (which can be freely summoned), and there are no taxes or such.

Funny thing, but all of these points are wrong. First off, there are three suppliers. The NPCs, like you said, but also there is a strong questing infrastructure and also trade skills that are very valuable. And that is only for physical things, many people also are willing to pay for spells cast in thier favor (Ressurection, speed boosts, long-distance teleports, etc.)

As for things degrading, there are both things that degrade over time (Potions, limited charge items, items that vanish on log-out), and also things that are obsoleted (either through new and better versions coming out, or through environmental changes that affect the items making them less potent). The world of Norrath is constantly changing, not just new zones and such, but even the rules of how the world works, and every time a change is made, players have to adapt and change tactics. These adaptions the players make change the types of weapons and items they will need to succeed. You also have, on rare occasions, Verant changing individual items themselves to make the less powerful (thus less desirable).

As for direct taxes, yes there are none, but there are MANY money-sinks in the world. Not only do you have to sink in a lot of items becuase of the high failure rate, you also have uneven buyback rates skewed highly in favor of the NPC merchants.

Yes over time everyone eventually makes some money, but they also lose it. I have some friends who are just now reaching level 60 (the highest in EQ) who are not finding themselves strapped for cash after buying hard to find items and spells.

It is actually a very reasonable go at building a model economy, I'm very interested to see the paper when it's done.

Tuition prices

[Gunnery Sgt. Hartman]

So this is why tuition and fees keep going up. We have to fund some dipshit's attempt to look smart.

well

[martissimo]

"Do real world economic class/social issues translate to the virtual world? "

considering that the PP (currency of EQ) is literally worth more than the "real" currencies of some countries when the PP is sold on E-bay or whatever i would have to say it sure does.

in fact someone who realy knows what they are doing can make a better living by "playing" this game then they could in some jobs the avg person is qualified for. i would suppose this would be a serious pay-raise for people in some areas frankly

Re:well

[Rudeboy777]

considering that the PP (currency of EQ) is literally worth more than the "real" currencies of some countries when the PP is sold on E-bay or whatever i would have to say it sure does.

Talk about globalization! What would the American (or local) government think of people in 3rd world countries acquiring internet access and "working" earning items in Everquest and selling them online for valuable American dollars? Suddenly working for pennies in a Nike factory isn't such an appealing option. A theoretically fascinating method for getting "aid" into the hands of the people and not corrupt politicians.

Re:well

[osgeek]

In the year 2018, all countries will move off various gold and government-issued currency standards.

The Everquest platinum piece will be the new basis for the global economy.

A Valid Currency?

[Pentagram]

I wonder if there's an official definition of a currency.

Ability to earn cash in Everquest... check.
Ability to buy things in EQ... check.
Exchange rate... check, if unofficially.

Actually I'd be interested to see a graph of the exchange rate of EQ cash v dollars - which is the better long-term investment? With the impending recession it might actually be a good, (if somewhat risky!) investment to transfer your savings to EQ.

Re:A Valid Currency?

[Chester K]

With the impending recession it might actually be a good, (if somewhat risky!) investment to transfer your savings to EQ.

And if it doesn't work out, at least you'll finally be able to afford that uber armor you've been drooling over for the past year. Win-win situation. ;)

twill be interesting to see

[metalhed77]

iused to play 10six, another massively multiplayer game, the economy in that wasn't so realistic, maybe the problem is that there are people with more money than you have forcing you do things you wouldn't do normally because they are more powerfull than you.

*realizes he has windows install*

wait my mistake, they are the same

What are the economic prospects of an EQ player?

[Lothar 0]

Find out

EQ paid me 1200 USD.

[minus23]

After having 38 days played... (24hours times 38).. I was paid 1200 USD for my character about 9 months ago...
That isn't a very good hourly wage if you break it down... you might be better off in the 3rd world country.

(Damn 20 second reply rule has got to go)

Re:EQ paid me 1200 USD.

[Magus311X]

That's about $1.31 an hour. People working the fields in Nigeria probably would LOVE to have that sort of wage.

They could make $3000 a year off of that with a 45 hour work week. In countries where $500/yr is common, that's living well.

Re:EQ paid me 1200 USD.

[swb]

But if you had fun doing it, it's like someone gave you $1200 for having a good time.

Closed

[mr100percent]

The study is CLOSED, they got all the data they need.

Whew! A few minutes after posting, too! The power of slashdot.

Re:Looks like it's up

[rjamestaylor]

No rest for the weary! (My wife just had our second son...did that qualify as a reason to delay our delivery schedule a bit? Ha.)

This link is just for grins.

Re:Oh dear...

[JohnnyBolla]

I'll save you 299.98 pages. They're really fucking big.

Everquest platinum? Bah!

[Brian Stretch]

I want Simoleons, dammit!

Re:new feature!

[jamiemccarthy]

it adds the server next to the link. goatse.cx guy is dead

yupyupyup

Great Pay little time...

[jgrumbles]

Check out PlayerAuctions and see what the shit is selling for. It is awesome profit considering it takes little time to get Platinum and some boneheads never realize it so they just buy it. Of course eBay has been forced to pull all EverQuest auctions and I don't know why PlayerAuctions is still safe. On a serious side, yes, Platinum pieces are worth considerably more than any 3rd world nations currency, which shows how spoiled this country is.

Re:Looks like it's up

[JBowz15]

Darn... I was hoping one of the new features in banjo was to block this guy.

Ridiculous.

[Gannoc]

There is no economic model in Everquest. Items are constantly being made or found, and never destroyed.

In an economic model, cars break down, so you need to buy more. Food is consumed, so you need to go to the grocery store. You need to pay rent to live, etc. This doesn't happen in everquest. The Everquest economy, by design, is doomed. Thats a plain fact that anyone who has played the game for a reasonable amount of time realizes. The hope is that by the time the economy gets too horrible, Everquest 2 will be released.

The "economy" they're weakly trying to make some profound conclusion from is that virtual items in Everquest have real world value to some people. This may come as a shock to some people, but EVERYTHING'S value is in its perception to the person who will buy it.

How much is a sheet of paper worth? How about a piece of paper with 0.0001 dollars worth of ink on it that happens to be a sports star's signature? How about a $2.25 toy that someone spends $200 on Ebay for? Heck, what about gold? Its just a piece of metal with some moderately useful applications; but since someone out there still thinks it makes pretty things, its worth quite a bit of money.

People spend money on Everquest items because it makes them enjoy the game more by having other people spending the time earning the items for them, like a caddy on a golf course.

This isn't spiffy Cyber-Economics of the Virutal Internet Future Era. Sorry.

Re:Ridiculous.

[BoredEnglishTeacher]

I disagree.
According to Adam Smith (famous Scottish economist) the basic unit of wealth is not subjective, it is objective. It is human labor.
Therefore, since people spend time and exert energy in order to obtain things in Everquest, those thing have every bit as much value as anything that requires wealth to obtain.

Re:Ridiculous.

[Gannoc]

Therefore, since people spend time and exert energy in order to obtain things in Everquest, those thing have every bit as much value as anything that requires wealth to obtain.

You're not disagreeing, really.

People who buy items in everquest are paying other people to get the items for them, which is what you're saying. End of story.

Since the items and money in everquest bear absolutely no relation to how items and money work in real life, its stupid to try and correspond the EQ economy to a real life one.

Don't forget, Everquest isn't one big glob, its split into servers. So you have maybe 5000 people "living" on one server, with monsters that pop up every 6-24 minutes and drop money and items that never (or very rarely) go away.

So the guy is comparing 5000 people playing an RPG to the economies of nations.

Re:Ridiculous.

[SEE]

The "labor theory of value", held by both Adam Smith and Karl Marx, is generally discredited among modern economic schools of thought, because it doesn't reflect the real world accurately.

My take on Eq's economy

[Lord_Pall]

Couple of notes first: IAAMMORPGD(I am a MMORPG Designer), and this is just a rough overview of my take on their economy.

On the player level, you have an influx of platinum/gold/silver/copper

These come from monsters and selling items

All of the in-game currency has a "time" associated with

I'm not sure what the time invested vs. in-game platinum breaks down to, but thats your base valuation for a real world cash value

So money gets introduced, and cycles either to other players, then through shopkeepers in the form of consumables (Food, Weapons, Spells)

Or out of the game in the form of players quitting.

Couple this with a much larger influx of cash than you have leaving, and voila.. Inflation!

You can factor in characters/items/etceter in a similiar way

Character value = time invested vs. Rarity vs. Desireability of character

Same thing for items.. But once again, since there's no mechanism to destroy items, the influx of raw materials outstrips them leaving the game.
And then you get a consistent devaluation of your equipment.

It is an economy, and it does in fact connect to the outside world.. And if you actually run some numbers on it, has a fairly interesting inflationary problem..

Re:new feature!

[complex]

public service announcement: it doesn't do it in sigs. still be wary of rogue linkers.

Conclusions? Capitalism insights evil

[CrazyJim0]

Dude 1, "Hey, I want to camp this golem, because it gets me more exp and lewt."

Dude 2,"Lets share."

Dude 1,"No way, I'm way higher level than you, and deserve more than you."

Dude 2,"Dude 1, I so friggin hate you."

Re:new feature!

[jamiemccarthy]

"it doesn't do it in sigs."

Yup I know, but thanks for the reminder, I'll drop myself a note in sourceforge.

The difficulty there is that domain tags expand text, sometimes by a lot, so the famous 120 char limit is going to start looking a lot smaller if you link to verizonreallyreallyreallysucks.com...

Ssh!

[Greyfox]

I bet the wheels are already turning at the IRS. How long before you have to claim Everquest stuff on your 1040?