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The New Zelda
freakonaleash881 writes "IGN is reporting that the new Legend of Zelda for the Gamecube is going to be a cartoon...that's right, a cartoon! It's supposedly showing off the Gamecube's realtime cartoon shading abilities. I just don't know about this..." I think it looks sweet considering the general poor quality of the snapshots. I tell ya folks, the next few months are going to be really exciting for console games with the new Final Fantasy, and the release of 2 new systems.
404 not found - do they delete these as soon as they make the /. front page?
This could be really interesting. Should Zelda be realistic or cartoony?
It started as cartoony out of nescesity of being a sprite based game, and while moving to 3D, it still maintained what I believe to be a somewhat intentional cartoonish appearence. So, in a way this is going back to basics.
But, so far I haven't been impressed with realtime cell shaded games. They just don't seem right, and the graphics have tended to be rather distracting in the past.
I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me.
If after reading the text you still think a cartoon approach is bad, check out the movie at the bottom of the page. Although not the same feel as the previous version of Zelda it certainly is a novel approach and one that might find a number of imitators.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
When I first saw the The Legend of Zelda for the GCN, it was a picture, and I did think for a split second, oh my god, what on earth has Nintendo done (around this time I had only had about 3 hours of sleep as I stayed up for Spaceworld as I live in the UK). I could not picture Zelda to look like this after seeing last years Spaceworld footage and the N64 versions. However after a lot of thought I realised Nintendo is going back to their roots and that is when I finally understood Miyamoto's reasons for making the changes - he doesn't want to make rehashes of the same old game with just prettier graphics, he doesn't want to do what most other developers out there would be afraid to do and that is to try something different and go along the same lines that made the Zelda series great in the first place.
I believe that the reasons why many people are upset about this change in Zelda is because the videogame industry hasn't had a wake up call (I apologise if I offend anyone when I say this) and that the Sony Playstation has done something to this industry that Nintendo is trying to prevent from happening - and that (Playstation) is preventing developers from making new and original games and stopping them from making new ideas - instead they just release game after game after game which don't have any different gameplay in them and yes, I know you shouldn't fix something that ain't broke but Miyamoto knows that if he doesn't do something to the Zelda series soon, then that too will follow the path of say the Tomb Raider series.
People complaining should think long and hard and try and understand that what Miyamoto is doing is for the good of the Zelda series as Im sure none of you would like to see Zelda dry up, cause if it did, Im pretty damn sure you would be begging for a change in the series like this to happen.
The Legend will live on!
It may be only to show off lighting and shading, but... you'd think they could design something enjoyable.
Now me, I'd like to see an anime Zelda if they really wanted to make a 'cartoon game'.
I thought the animation was incredible. Link's movements were decent, but the enemies featured in the shot were hilarious. On the other hand, the shots of Zelda standing still looked like fan-art from a very confused 12 year old. Only time will tell if this method works. But if you're looking for a more conventional game, check out the Mario Sunrise converage. Now THAT looks like a complex 3D environment.
Legend of Zelda for GameCube -- like the new look, or not?
24.6% - This is the worst day of my life
20.1% - I love it!
18% - I'm not so sure
15.7% - Huh? What have they done?!?
10.8% - I like it
5.7% - I don't like it at all
4.8% - It's ok
Seems like you will either love it or hate it
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson
Who cares about cartoons.
All I care about his extreeme detail on eyeballs, bits of brain and skull, rib cage bones, and knee joints as they fly in every direction after killing your enemy.
Race games are fun too.
Fish! LipHo
I really want to play this game, too bad it's not supposed to come out until next Christmas. It's kinda funny that a lot of people looked at the new Mario title and said "It's disappointing because it just looks like Mario64 but prettier" and then complained when the new Zelda didn't look like Ocarina only prettier.
I've read all kinds of opinions on this thing and it seems that everyone who was actually at the show was apprehensive at first, but by the end of the clip they loved it. That, along with the fact that there is a year of development time left, and, well, because I just think it looks cool, has convinced me that Nintendo knows what they are doing and aren't afraid to try something because they think it would be fun. Sega and Nintendo are the real trailblazers when it comes to video games, the PS2 and XBox can go take a running jump.
My other
I'm wondering why they made this choice when developpers all seem to be converging towards more encompassing (and realistic) 3D worlds...
This is not true. The wall game developers are running into (and I am one, not just some lunatic fanboy), is that making encompassing and realistic 3D works takes a huge amount of time. We're talking months and months for one medium-sized level. And that's with 'old' technology, not all the new crazy stuff that's coming out in hardware (programmable vertex shaders, for example). So we're headed toward games that will take armies of people ten years to create. Wouldn't it be better to take a different approach and concentrate on fun?
Here's a link to an article that Slashdot ran last year on the subject.
Zelda2 looked like crap, but did anyone care? No. The game was almost IMPOSSIBLE to beat. It was good graphics for back then anyways. I really don't care what this Zelda game looks like, as long as it uses the GameCubes full capabilities I'm happy. I just want it to take a LOT to beat it, not 2 days like the first N64 Zelda game took.
Nintendo, there better not be any annoying talking fairy following Link around the whole damn time!
"0101100101? It's just jibberish. *looks in mirror, gasps* 1010011010@!? AHHHHHH!!"
BTW, somebody get Taco a DC, now that they're dirt cheap. Clearly his Playstation mania has left him out of some great gaming experiences if he thinks nothing has been happening the past year or two in the video game industry. (Then again, I should thank people like him. DC stuff wouldn't be anywhere near as cheap if demand was as high as it should have been...)
In fact, there's a good chance that cell shading is less intensive than regular texture mapping. You dont have to worry about moving huge textures in and out of memory and your color pallete drops from millions of colors to thousands.
D
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A few games that would do well with this:
Bard's Tale
Impossible Mission
Questron/Legacy of the Ancients
Come to think of it... a version of Larn or Nethack with such a display would kick butt.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
http://cube.ign.com/news/37687.html
That article explains it and I think does a decent job of getting his message across.
My friend sent me a video he took of it at the Spaceworld show, and I'm still not sure what I think.
;)
o vi es/zelda1.mov
It LOOKS like it could be a "remake" of the original game, in a pseudo 3d world, which could be really good, or really bad, depending on how Nintendo handles it. Or, it could just be completely "original", with Link fighting the baddies we all grew up with, ending with the evil Gannon [none of this Mask of Majora or Ganondorf crap].
And the cartoon cell-shading thing? Isn't it just a BIT overused? Games like Jet Set/Grind Radio pretty much made it look as cool as possible, but now with it being used on dozens of new PS2, XBOX, and now GCN games, I'm starting to think if everyone is just running to make the next "cool" game using this "new" "cool" effect. There's nothing wrong with that if ALL, if all these games use it to their own advantages. But if a game has it for no real purpose beyond it just being there, I struggle to see the whole point of it.
Unfortunately, that's gaming's biggest problem now. They all want to make "the next Half-Life" or "the next Tony Hawk". Very few will try and go ahead and make something original like Shenmue or Max Payne.
And note, if the poor quality shots aren't enough, most people probably don't realize that there's a poor quality video to go along with it (plaintext link):
http://cubemovies.ign.com/media/space2k1/pressm
I think that would be Jet Set Radio.
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what happened to this?
http://cube.ign.com/previews/14914.html
is this not the same game? These are the screenshots for zelda that have been around for months now. Perhaps it's not a launch title because they changed the format recently?
I barely do :)
;)
I do remember that Fridays were Zelda... so this isn't such a new idea after all! If anyone actually does remember this... I don't... and I'd love for you to help me out here
-- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
Next Up: GameCube remake of Dragon's Lair.
...with the notable exception of the CDi games.
But seriously, this looks kind of neat. The Zelda games have always had a subtle sense of humor, and this one seems to make it far less subtle and far more Chuck Jones. (Now, I'm basing that on the article - I don't have a QuickTime viewer on this system.) That doesn't have to be a bad thing; often the unexpected is the best. I've enjoyed every Zelda Game up to this point - and since I'm pretty terrible at games, they've all had lots of time dedicated.
Just don't make metroid a cartoon... that's all I care about...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but what has always impressed me most about the N64 Zeldas (my entry point into the Zelda story) has been the wonderfully balanced gameplay and control.
They've always managed to strike a perfect balance between challenge/difficulty, and achievability. Puzzles are tough, but not obscure. Beating bosses are a challenge, but don't take nanosecond twitch responses to pull off. There's no "find the magic pixel" or "die a thousand deaths".
Future game developers would do well to study the N64 Zeldas. They're as close to perfect as any game I've ever played.
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Now check and turn the signal to the left/
Now chack and turn the signal to the right/
When I say "Boom boom boom" you say "Bam bam bam"/
No pause in between, come on let's jam!
-- "I am disrespectful to dirt. Can you not see that I am serious!"
C'mon, it's not just the rendering technique. Video games are always moving closer to looking like your character is part of a movie. Graphics alone doesn't do it... art and atmosphere contribute significantly to that. If Zelda can do all this when you're playing, it will be a lot better than Jet Grind Radio.
Once you can do photorealistic images (or even get close to it), what do you do next? We already know the answer, because it already happend in fine art. The greeks and romans perfected realistic sculpture, and all sculpture afterwards became more figurative (see byzantine and gothic sculpture). The renaissance artists perfected photorealsim through use of perspective techniques etc, and what followed?
OK, so we're not yet at real-time rendering of final fantasy-quality movies on our desktop, but it's just a matter of raw computing power at this point; there's no new conceptual territory to cover. Hardware will continue to advance, and we will eventually have realtime photorealistic rendering, but expect the mainstream game designers to go back to figurative representations, at least until the next big technology comes along (holographic games, anyone?)
The CPad .. the handheld .. the side scroller ... Nintendo has been responsible for so much of what is taken for granted in the console industry that it's always amusing to see people trash Nintendo.
.. Nintendo has always focused on innovative game play and a unique approach to old franchises.
Sure, you may not be a fan of the style in the screenshots and movie, but it does highlight what Nintendo has always been good at: innovation.
Other developers are usually content to raise the bar on the present set of conventions and standards, in terms up updated graphics (making the characters look more lifelike), etc
I for one think that the style Nintendo is going for here is refreshing - way too many games take themselves way too seriously. And Link has always held an element of novelty and humour. I mean, how serious can you be when you're a green-garbed elf who occasionally stops by the chicken coup to ruffle a few feathers for the fun of it?
And, for the 20somethings who really won't touch a game unless its covered in blood, don't worry - Nintendo is handling their licencing issues far better this time around. We've seen some evidence that Microsoft's money will ultimatetly help see tons of the Xbox titles get ported to game cube, hopefully shutting up the thousands of console FANBOYS who only seem to pledge allegiance to systems with the darkest most 'adult' image, regardless of the reality.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Many game fans are put off by the complexity of most RPG's. Zelda titles have been much simpler than most, but all the same, it will be simplified to appeal to a larger audience.
Instead of epic quests for a glowing sword or whatever, you just try to survive from room to room. Example: your guy runs into a room and rocks start falling- what do you do? Pick a direction to run in and that's it. If you choose wrong, you die. Try again. No health status and objects to find- no alternate endings or pointless side quests.
Nintendo has plans to make a space-oriented cartoon Zelda for release in Japan early 2002.
Microsoft, following in the inspired footsteps of Nintendo, is adding Clippy(tm) as a sidekick to each of its game titles.
Their first racing demo shows just how much Clippy(tm) enhances a gamer's experience:
When asked why so many gamers who have tested Tomb RaiderX have cramped thumbs, a Microsoft spokesman's only comment was 'apparently, some kids thought it would be funny to shoot at Clippy(tm). What they didn't realize is that our beta-testers had already done the same thing incessantly, so we've re-designed the game to make this feat impossible. After all, how could you complete any game without the aid of Clippy(tm)?'
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Even in the traditional moderatorial state of crack-addledness, one should be able to determine that this is on-topic. Half the words in the post are directly lifted from the article, the other half form a connected argument from that statement.
-1: Troll?
Certainly.
-1: Flamebait?
Possibly.
+1: Funny?
Plausibly.
-1: Offtopic?
You are a crack-head moderator and I claim my five pounds.
Life as an embedded programmer: "I don't believe it! The CPU on this thing is a Turing Machine!" "Uh, you mean Turing complete, right?" "NO! A freaking Turing Machine, with paper tape and all. Talk about design by buzzword bingo. Can GCC even be retargeted to a Turing machine? And what about devices, how do I communicate with them.... oh, wait, there's a paper tape multiplexer. ....
<sound of teeth grinding> .... this is gonna be a loooong dev cycle..."
8-)
Non photorealistic rendering is a very cool field of graphics, if that's what these guys are doing. For more info on the technique, check out this google-attained page here.
For fleeting minutes, one of the games I considered creating in this very past year was a Zelda-type game where the models are cartoon NPR-rendered but with a richly detailed Street Fighter World Warrior type colourful background.
This doesn't seem too far from that. I think M[ia]moto (sp) is using his instincts on this one.
RE: Zelda. Right on. I am a huge Zelda fan, and LOVE the fact that it looks new and unique. That's why Nintendo will always get my money. They actually care about game play and creativity. Who wants a PS2 if all you can play is yet another racing game (oh, but you can see the sun reflecting off the windshield!) or another football game (now with 2002 stats!). Who cares? I want a game that engages my imagination. I'm playing through Zelda: Majora's Mask right now, and it is the best game I have played in a long time. Creative use of the Zelda world and the flow of time. Great stuff!!!
RE: Mario. I agree. Seems like Mario 64, but just with more polys. I guess that's what they were going for; but I'm still hoping for some more originality.
I don't want to buy a new game system because it pushes more polys. I'm saving up for the GameCube because the Nintendo mark ensures great games. People need to realize that it's about the games in the end. That's why Xbox will not do so well. And a game is NOT a collection of sports stats or some walk from cut-scene to cut-scene. I played Resident Evil 2 for the Dreamcast and became ill at the fact that people call it a "game".
Just my $0.02.
--- witty signature
Huh? Did you actually play through N64 Zelda? Or Majora's Mask? Those games rule! They are certianly not weak. Full of sub-adventures, interesting game objectives, and great use of the 3D environment. They actually used the 3D to add more to the characters; not just re-hash the old Zelda with pretty polygons. Majora's Mask is the ultimate in creative game play; it's like Zelda meets Groundhog day. How unique!
I bought my N64 the first day it came out in anticipation of the new Zelda, and I was not disappointed. I just played through the SNES Zelda again last month, and it is certainly a masterpiece, but so is the N64 Zelda. They are both excellent games in their own ways.
--- witty signature
Sure, I'll get an offtopic for this, but what the hell:
"greatest cartoon of all time, Transformers"
ROFL, you're kidding right? Are you evaluating greatness by golf-score style cel-counts, and perspectives that look like the bastard love child of Dali and cubism?! The Transformers embodied everything that american animation stands for - get a good franchise, and the fans will be totally blind to brutal, shoestring budget art.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Holy shit, people, I think this comment is supposed to be funny, not off-topic, flamebait or anything else. Ms. Rosen was making a joke.
I doubt that Nintendo actually has a patent on the lock-on mechanism used in the Zelda's for the N64. (At least I couldn't find any in any patent searches I used.)
If they do have a patent, then why the hell haven't they protected it from being misused by Sony in their recent PS2 game Dark Cloud? Hell, to the casual observer, the action sequences in the game could be mistaken for a Zelda game. While playing once, a friend of mine made the mistake...
I think IGN was using the word "patent" here a little like wrestling announcers during their commentary. When they say, "Here comes Super Macho Man with his patented 'Spinning Right Hook'," they don't mean that the fucking guy went and actually patented the a right hook at a US patent office. It just means that it's his "move", dammit.
J
Of course Nintendo's games were cartoon-style in the first place...
So it's all good, and you're enjoying your little quest, with its puzzles and mini-games and whatnot. That is, until you run into the patented Nintendo Cheap Shot Syndrome, and end up knocked on your ass mainly as a result of the interface. (Anyone who's fought the later bosses in Ocarina of Time knows what I'm talking about). Then, of course, you're thrown just far enough back in the game for it to be a nuisance. But by this time, you've come too far to just pack it in...
I'm on the fence as to whether I'll play another Zelda game or not... after years of gaming, I've come to the conclusion that challenge is good, but I'd rather play a game than fight it.
"In the game industry the people that are most sought after are the people with better technology than skill, rather than the people who love to challenge themselves to make something very fun and deliver breakthrough ideas. That kind of situation I really hate. So that's why I told my staff members that they should have more freedom to create anything they like..."
This is precisely why Nintendo has continuously released games far superior to the competition. They have always been a company focused on quality at the expense of quantity, which is something you just don't see much in the video game business.
In a way, the developers and engineers at Nintendo are a lot like dedicated open source people. They strike me as gamers writing games for gamers, not weenies releasing as much crap as possible with the hopes of making a quick buck. Everything from the design of the controllers, to the hardware itself, to the simple but powerful (gasp!) interfaces in their games, to the atmosphere they create is all well thought out and works flawlessly (or damn close to it). They consistently create something spectacular for gamers of all ages to enjoy, without having to clone other popular games or rely on gimmicky stuff like excessive gore.
Personally, I think this Zelda looks great. I'm not really into the powerpuff girl facial features, but the cinematic feel is very cool. And when you come right down to it, the best games are the ones that give you that feeling of being somewhere else, whether in your mind (pencil & paper rpgs, nethack) or in some virtual digital world.
OK, I won't post the link to the old Zelda pics for fear of being redundant, but it's clear that there's already been a lot of development on a realistic, lifelike version of a Zelda game. And now here comes this jolly happy cartoon Zelda game. Somehow, the plot seems to have been lost along the way...
But why shouldn't there be BOTH in the same game? It's clear that the last few Zelda games have all dealt with an alternative world somehow, be it the Lightworld / Darkworld in Link To The Past, or the Young Link / Old Link worlds in Ocarina Of Time.
Given this pattern, perhaps we might see a Realistic / Cartoon world changeover in this next game. Remember that the actual plot of this game hasn't been published yet. So for the moment, anything goes!
Nintendo never promised anything. In fact, they said on several occasions that the clips shown at last year's spaceworld were just demos and did not indicate that the games were in development. If you choose to base your expectations of future games on them, it's your fault.
Besides, there will be a million "mature-looking" adventure RPGs that will probably all be just like Ocarina because the rest of the industry has a hobby of doing whatever Nintendo just did but with more blood. The cartoon version, if done well (and from the reports of people who saw it, it looks a hell of a lot better than it did in that video) will be like playing a cartoon, how cool is that? I can't wait for this game, which is really annoying because I just spent a year waiting for the GameCube and now I don't even care about the launch titles any more because I want this game so much. Oh well, I've gotten good at waiting...
My other
I'm guessing that's a new anti-goatse feature in the slashdot engine. Good idea.
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
Out with the swords and spells and in with the falling anvils and pianos. They should make a fortune off of Acme product placement.
I really think Nintendo is missing the point. I remember when Nintendo was more about the game than the graphics. Look at what they're doing -- they're forming a game around the graphics capabilities of the system. They're making the game to show off the graphics. The story and game itself should be shown off, and the graphics should be simply the visual presentation. Since N64, Nintendo on more than one occassion has said "[such and such a game] will really show off [a 3D effect]."
I just think they're missing the point. I'm all about 3D gaming and incredible graphics -- and yet I can't help but think much of the storyline went out with the SNES series.
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
LOL!