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PDA Wars: HP Strikes Back With New Jornadas
wbav writes "According to this article on cnn HP has anounced that they are releasing two new models. At 6 ounces it sports a 203 mhz processor and 32 or 64 megs of ram depending on the model. It comes with Pocket PC 2002, and support for VPNs. Very nice." I do wonder what will happen to the Jornada, given the HP purchase of Compaq - my understanding is that the iPaq has kicked far more butt then the Jornada.
I love you! I want to marry you!
first post :P
You walk into the room
With your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked
And you say, "Who is that man?"
You try so hard
But you don't understand
Just what you'll say
When you get home
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
You raise up your head
And you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says
"It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?"
And somebody else says, "Where what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God
Am I here all alone?"
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
You hand in your ticket
And you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you
When he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel
To be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible"
As he hands you a bone
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
You have many contacts
Among the lumberjacks
To get you facts
When someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect
Anyway they already expect you
To just give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations
You've been with the professors
And they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read
It's well known
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you
And then he kneels
He crosses himself
And then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice
He asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back
Thanks for the loan"
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
Now you see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "NOW"
And you say, "For what reason?"
And he says, "How?"
And you say, "What does this mean?"
And he screams back, "You're a cow
Give me some milk
Or else go home"
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
Well, you walk into the room
Like a camel and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket
And your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law
Against you comin' around
You should be made
To wear earphones
Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?
post number one! yay!
Your comment violated the postercomment compression filter. Comment aborted
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g g
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e \ | / / \\\ -- \\ : e
x \ \/ --~~ ~--| \ | x
* \ \-~ ~-\ | *
g \ \
o \ \_// ((> \ | o
a \ . C ) _ ((> | / a
t
s /
e | ( C__)\__/
x | \ | \\__// (/ | x
* | \ \) `---- --' | *
g | \ \ / / | g
o | / | | \ | o
a | | / \ \ | a
t | / / | | \ |t
s | / / \/\/ | |s
e | / / | | | |e
x | | | | | |x
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
I believe the main reason why the iPaq has been so much more successful than other Pocket PCs is because it has been the first one to take advantage of the strong arm technology. It also sports a pretty cool case. Although the PC Card expansion sleave is a bit clunky it allows for wireless PCMCIA cards. Wireless LAN access is of course ideal for a PDA. I am very interested to see what HP will do with the iPaq ideally they will combine it the the best aspects of the Jordana.
A rabbit in the hand is worth 4 in the cage
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g g
o / \ \ / \ o
a| | \ | | a
t| `. | | : t
s` | | \| | s
e \ | / / \\\ -- \\ : e
x \ \/ --~~ ~--| \ | x
* \ \-~ ~-\ | *
g \ \
o \ \_// ((> \ | o
a \ . C ) _ ((> | / a
t
s /
e | ( C__)\__/
x | \ | \\__// (/ | x
* | \ \) `---- --' | *
g | \ \ / / | g
o | / | | \ | o
a | | / \ \ | a
t | / / | | \ |t
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* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
They seem to be pointing out the Increase in clock speed? (amongst other improvements)
Oh, god, here we go again.
I suppose they are going to sue VIA for *not* making chipsets for them.
Moose.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Why, then, do the Slashdot editors fall silent when asked about the problems with the site?
All the readers are wondering what is going on with the various bugs ('reply' buttons take you back to the homepage, can't login, etc.) that are preventing them from using the site.
Worse yet, many of the users actually use Slashcode on their own sites! Don't they deserve to know about bugs that may affect them? By "sweeping it under the rug", you are no better than Microsoft who tries to hide their bugs for months while they prepare a patch.
Your only response has been to mod down anyone who has pointed out these flaws to '-1', where their post won't be seen by most readers. That same "instant mod down" probably will happen to this post, too, and that's a shame.
As developers and coders ourselves, we are aware that all software has bugs. We'll forgive you! But it's time to come clean. Thank you.
Def Leppard rule.
Hey, I love my iPaq, but I run intimate Linux on it, and not PocketPC 2002, 2001, etc... (Something about being able to apt-get on a pda is really damn cool.)
The question is, Compaq is decidely pro-Linux, moreso than even Big Blue, but will we start seeing HP support Linux ports to the Jornada series? I LOVE the Jornada form factor, and it would be great if they did!
Most likely, whichever platform is superior will be marketted as the jordana or some new name.
Does HP plan to continue using the Compaq brandname? There's the chance that they may want names like iPaq (even though iPuke when iHear iPrefixed too many freaking iTimes).
Or they may attempt to steal features from both, not necessarilly on a technical level (since incompatibilities may arise, but I haven't studied the particulars close enough to comment on that), but icons, trademarks, interface features, so on.
i think we should get to know the problems, i was thinking of running a site on slash, but i'm thinking of just coding it all myself with these problems /. is having
Photos.
Compaq has been mopping up vs HP in PocketPC sales. HP took the hit a while ago with the high color screens that really only did 4096 colors. Given the recent merger, and the shareholder doubts surrounding it, one has to wonder how this will play out in product introductions from each, and whether this is or is not good for Casio, the Number 3 in the PocketPC race.
Don't underestimate the speed to market aspect in handhelds. When Palm announced, but couldn't deliver on, the new models, they dealt themselves a mighty blow. Given the speed of change in handhelds, marketing, technology, and manufacturing all have to be singing off the same page to ensure market success.
The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
my understanding is that the iPaq has kicked far more butt then the Jornada.
Thats probably because they can be upgraded..
Both in Operating system and Memory.
air and light and time and space
Hey, if Jordana sells 20% of the market share on PDA's and iPaq sells 60%, HP has 80% of the market share w/ both technologies.
(Percents were complete assumtions to prove a point).
First off, don't bother wasting your mod points on this one. The slashdot editors will take care of modding this one down for you.
The "spririt" of open-source software (which is always so highly praised on Slashdot) is openness and cooperation. Open source software contributors pride themselves on making their changes public for the benefit of all.
All the readers are wondering what is going on with the various bugs ('reply' buttons take you back to the homepage, can't login, etc.) that are preventing them from using the site.
Why, then, do the Slashdot editors fall silent when asked about the problems with the site?
Worse yet, many of the users actually use Slashcode on their own sites! Don't they deserve to know about bugs that may affect them? By "sweeping it under the rug", you are no better than Microsoft who tries to hide their bugs for months while they prepare a patch.
Your only response has been to mod down anyone who has pointed out these flaws to '-1', where their post won't be seen by most readers. That same "instant mod down" probably will happen to this post, too, and that's a shame.
As developers and coders ourselves, we are aware that all software has bugs. We'll forgive you! But it's time to come clean. Thank you.
So they're actively trying to prove how Open Source Software sucks.
Oh my God I hate you so much
I do wonder what will happen to the Jornada, given the HP purchase of Compaq - my understanding is that the iPaq has kicked far more butt then the Jornada.
:)
Yes Jornada's kicks, but the success of iPaq tells us a company's marketing and supporting is also very important.
I know many people who are going to develop apps for iPaq have the common happy experience - Compaq is being very supportive in development, martketing and financing when you shows your intention to develop for iPaq.
Compaq will take every opportunities to promote your apps(even in pre-alpha stage) in every trade show and even invite you to their promotional events if possible. If your apps is good enough Compaq even help you line up VCs for you to start a new company! That's some kind of convenience that couldn't be found in developing apps in other handheld devices.
It's no harm in having two lines of similar products, but to ensure the success Jornada HP must put their entire Jornada's team under iPaq's. Really, you can hardly find any other line of business more supportive than iPaq's.
The iPaq and Journada fight in the marketplace.
The iPaq trounces the Journada.
HP buys Compaq.
HP has to struggle with reconciling their own product lines and bring them into one company.
This is the first example. HP has bought Compaq, but the iPaq is cooler. They can't call it the iHP or anything, can they? Bob Cringely made some remarks about just this sort of thing in his latest column. This merger makes no sense at all. HP and Compaq have already bought out companies that helped their bottom line, and now they're doing it again. Unless HP does some seriously insane reorganization, their chances of doing anything signifigant are pretty small.
Compaq's iPaq is a completely different concept to the Jornada. An iPaq is a PDA. A palm style address book, calendar, appointment system. Basically, they have absolutely no real value or use, especially in a commercial application.
We develop sales automation tools for handheld pcs. we couldn't do that on a PDA. there is no keyboard. how can a sales person lookup a customer / part, or enter an invoice / order with a stylus touch pad. answer, you can't you need a keyboard. this is why the Jornada will be more successful and last longer than the "traditional" palm, handspring and iPaq style PDAs / handhelds. it has last and, more importantly, commercial use.
The Viewpad
Not as cumbersome as a laptop, but larger than a iPaq or Jornada, which makes it ideal for me.
I recently (some weeks before the HP/Compaq merger was announced) had the chance to check out a prototype Jordana that's in testing at the moment.
Unlike the model mentioned here, the unit I saw, labelled X25, was a lower-end PDA aimed squarely at college students, as evidenced by the glossy made-up "consumer profiles" supplied to the testers.
The unit is slim, has a crisp monochrome screen, a and hardware MP3 decoder. Best of all ppl, the OS is Linux, though the UI and apps are all Java. It runs pretty nicely, looks cool, and is likely to be very cheap!
It's not based on the ipaq at all though, so it will be interesting to see just how a parallel Linux-based PDA project however meritorious will survive in the brave new "synergized" HP/Compaq world...
The article, if you had bothered to actually read it, is referring to the PDA versions of the Joornadas, not the HPC versions. The 54x series, as well as the new 56x series do not have keybaords, and look like any other PocketPC PDA.
-bZj
.sig
Neatly disguised as a trumpet case, with a real CRT monitor to boot. And interchangeable storage device (aka tape drive). Still has the best games too.
Blender And Linux Fan
"Pocket PC 2002 is also optimized for the enterprise, with support for VPNs (virtual private networks) and terminal server clients, she said. The operating system also allows Pocket PC users to easily "beam" information to users of Palm Inc.'s operating system through the infrared port." When I upgrade I will still be able to pass info to co-workers and friends with out a whole lotta of hasle. Glad to see them persuing that. Are there other handhelds that will do this?
Just an everyday guy....nothing special
I don't know where people are getting their numbers from on this one. HP's Jornada has outsold Compaq by almost double in the PDA department. iPaqs may be a favorite among geeks, but we all know the world isn't like the Slashdot faithful. HP has acounted for 4% of all PDA sales this year, versus Q's 2.2%.
LINK: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/18847.html
iPaqs cost too much to kick anybody's butt in the PDA market. I'll be upgrading my 548 to a 568 in the coming year - long live the Jornada!
-bZj
.sig
I was reading through what PowerPC 2002 was offering and it kept reminding me "Palm already had that for some time.... Palm offers that now... Palm has it already..." Geesh. And to think Microsoft itself with Windows is slowly becoming Unix back in 1970!!!
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
I use one at work. It blows. The screen is completely unreadable in any light but florescent. It is also slow as hell and not very upgradeable (no wireless lan for me). Then again, one of the biggest problems I have found is that the os just plain sucks. Microsoft has no clue how to design an os for a handheld; the entire thing should be in the interface hall fo shame. Apple really needs to release a handheld so that Microsoft can at least try to copy something useful.
Compaq sold me hardware (ipaq) and the freedom to use what software I wanted. I bought a physical device.
HP sold me an "HP/C handheld" (jornada 720). To date, after 8 months of effort, no one from HP will provide any kind of support (flashroms? no - although HP Singapore engineers have such modified 720's; hardware info - none) for the jornada. Buying the jornada based on HP's past excellent support of their calculators (yes I know, different division entirely) and HP 200 'palmtops' was quite a mistake. The jornada is technically a great device but practically useless to me (read, "MS only")
I sincerely hope the HP/Compaq merger does not go through.
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess? - Joshua (Wargames)
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
There is currently a product from Atek electronics, which is a CF type I to CF type II adapter. Add CFII WLAN card, and you're set.
-bZj
.sig
These aren't meant to be PCs. They are special purpose appliances. You buy into their specifications beforehand, it's not like they tricked you. Yes, Linux can be ported to a telephone or a refridgerator, but who cares? I prefer to just have it work as intended.
As for support, I've never had to call them, so it is sad to hear that they weren't as useful as you'd hoped.
-bZj
.sig
You need to learn how to read, son.
The chart you linked to shows Compaq with 11.9% of Q1 2001 vs HP's 4.1% of Q1 2001. The number you keep quoting was Q1 2000. Year to Year, # of Units sold in Western Europe was 8,978 units for Q1 2000 for Compaq and 100,362 units for Q1 2001. In contrast, HP accounted for 16,514 units for Q1 2000 and 34,210 units for Q1 2001. That's 109,340 units for Compaq in the two compared Quarters, and 50,724 for HP. In short, Compaq has shipped more than twice as many units as HP has in the same compared periods.
Offtopic, but I would have thought computer geeks would know THAN most about the correct usage of 'then' and 'than', given the logical expression 'IF this THEN do that..' that is used
Makes me wonder how many mistakes people write when coding...
IF a = 2 THAN b = 3
Syntax error
Huh? What's wrong with that?
Do your best, hope for the best, suspect the worst.
I think you are quoting the old numbers from Q1 2000. By Q1 2001, it's a completely different story...
Western Europe's mobile device market:
Q1 2000 share:
Compaq 2.2%
HP 4.0%
Q1 2001 share
Compaq 11.9%
HP 4.1%
Im really just trying to find a replacement for the Toshiba Libretto. After Toshiba stopped making the palm top, the only real choice people had was PDAs. I really need a wireless device, If I only wanted a calendar or contact list, I have PocketNet phone with Fonesync software. But I needed a true wireless connection with a tcp/ip stack(for SSH) so I picked up a CDPD modem. But carrying around a full size laptop sucks, so I migrated to a PDA. I first started off with an wireless Palm Omnisky. Battery life was nice, upto 1 week light use, and 2 weeks if it sat im my pocket. But I wanted color and sound, I migrated to the PocketPC (Ipaq) and CDPD modem. Not bad, I can surf websites in html not wap, and even listen to mp3s. (Very important for work ya know!) Battery life is weak, and I find myself letting the battery die right when I need. Picked up a IBM Microdrive. Fast, was able to move documents from my laptop and back, neat idea, but didnt use it as much I wanted. I gotta get around to trying out the Pocket Divx Player and put a divx movie on the microdrive. (Gotta watch Red Dwarf ep with the Sock Puppet.)
:)
Heck, They even have PDA pr0n for those long boring conference calls.
... before some loser asks the question "oooh, mebbe I can run lino0x on it!! I M SO L33t!!!"
Recently Compaq announced that it shipped million'th iPaq. Around the same time Microsoft announced that it shipped million'th version of PocketPC. This have to tell something about success of HP's Jornadas...
WTF is Flash ROM?!
...but I think the super-dope screen is the biggest selling point for many people.
___
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. --Ben Franklin
206 MHz StrongARM SA-1110
32MB DRAM
32MB Flash
240 x 320 pixel, 4096-color
USB, serial, Ethernet
Linux
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Find a Compaq employee to buy one for you. I think their price is about $286 for the 64meg model. Monochrome is about $200.
That's how I got mine.
Jornada: Le mage orna d'anneaux son chapeau.
These devices are technically superior to the existing Ipaq. In an internal company shootout, the technically superior device will win.
So the new HP will only sell the new Jornadas. Which will then succeed.
It's a pity, because I prefer the style of the Ipaq. Of course, more memory is always better.
http://www.dynamism.com/libretto/main.shtml
8mb of on-chip video RAM, 256mb (standard 128mb) RAM, and a 30gb (standard 10gb) HDD. It is also the first-ever Libretto to have an integrated ethernet port. The TFT used in the Libretto is absolutely fantastic. Transmeta's 600mhz Crusoe processor powers the machine but enables it to achieve 4.5 hours (2.5-3 hours real life) run-time on the standard battery--and, a whopping 14 hours (9-10 hours real life) run-time on the enhanced battery.
it's spelled than, not then... sorry, just a pet peev :).
To: Jon Pennycook <jon.pennycook@Psion.com>
To: William Goodridge <William.Goodridge@Psion.com>
Cc: root@Psion.com, marketing@Psion.com, webmaster@Psion.com
Cc: postmaster@Psion.com, administrator@Psion.com
Subject: Lost Sales due to Bad Web Site
Dear Psion,
I saw somebody recommend you on http://www.Slashdot.org/ for your small handheld computers, and went to your web site to check it out. I was very disappointed:
No thanks. It's just not worth it. I value my privacy.
Using lynx(1), I also encountered:
Your bad web design is costing you sales, but there is an easy way to fix the problem.
The following are Bad Things:
You can use those Bad Things listed above, but don't require them. As soon as you require any of those bad things, I and thousands of other Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Solaris, AtheOS, and other alternative operating system users will avoid your site, and not do business with you.
If you decide that high-tech computer-savvy users who spend thousands of dollars per year on computing equipment are not worth the small amount of effort required to build a web site that works with all browsers on all computer platforms, without any of the Bad Things listed above, then continue to ignore us. Otherwise, correct the problems with your web site and enjoy our business.
Please see http://www.AnyBrowser.org/campaign/
Do NOT contact me via email, even if you correct the problems with your web site. I consider any unsolicited email contact from any business to be spam, and put those businesses on my boycott forever list. You are welcome to snail mail me.
Kenneth J. Hendrickson
[Snail-Mail Address Provided to Psion]
Do not put my email address on any lists! Do not sell, transfer, give away, or otherwise communicate my email address to any other entities.
Thank you,
Ken Hendrickson
Actualy, if you poke around the HP linux pages, they list the Jornada 690 (From memory) in the list of support Linux hardware.
Paul "TBBle" Hampson
Paul.Hampson@Pobox.Com
What ever happened to the Vadem Clio AKA sharp tripad ?
I think that with linux it would kick a$$
The touch sensitive screen rotates on two hinges
allowing for normal laptop or tablet use.
It then flips over to safely and completely close it.
Hidden nicely beneath this cool screen is a complete keyboard too.
c'mon I want more support for that one!!!
(course for the last 2 years I have heard very little)
comment directly in my journal
ya but what is the price?
I'm not spending over 700 dollars for a PDa when I could get a laptop with more software, better screens, more hardware, faster, and now adays getting smaller and smaller for for less.
We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.