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Real-life Ornithopter to Take Flight?
A reader writes "According to this article at space.com, researchers at the University of Toronto have designed and built a working ornithopter. Their design will (hopefully) lift off solely powered by the motion of its articulated wings. First envisaged by Leonardo da Vinci, many will recall ornithopers' prominent role in Frank Herbert's Dune books. The U. Toronto Ornithopter project page is is found at ornithopter.net." "Usul ? , Base of the Pillar"
Why else would you waste deck-space for a 0/2 flying?
I've been killed by one of those...spinal graft it to a 3/5 flyer, and you got problems...
How Jaded Are You?
Google cache for Ornithopter.net. For the link wary
n g_ en%7Clang_fr%7Clang_de&q=site%3Awww.ornithopter.ne t+ornithopter
http://www.google.com/search?num=30&hl=en&lr=la
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
The article's first paragraph says
Kind of misleading. The Wright brothers' design was based almost exactly on the bird's wing, but in the bird's "gliding" mode (wherein the curved top surface creates faster moving air, which causes lower air pressure above, which effects lift).
The Wrights wisely avoided the complicated "flapping" mode of wings by creating the necessary forward motion using a prop.
Cordwainer Smith wrote about them long before F. Herbert was done writing Dune.
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
Look, up there in the sky. It's a bird ... It's a plane ... No wait ... what the hell is that?!?!?
Usul means the strength of the base of the pillar IIRC.
Elgon - A storm is coming. Our storm. And when it arrives it will shake the universe.
I can't wait until they start developing Telethopters and Roterothopers!!
Attention all planets of the Solar Federation! We have assumed control! - Neil Peart
Ornithopter
Advanced design is relying on nature's model more and more: from "fish scales" that speed up boats, to robotic actuators that limber up synthetic muscles and joints. But the oldest concept of how a machine would fly, based on the action of bird's wings, still hasn't taken flight.
Envisioned first by Leonardo Da Vinci in the 1500's, an "orinthopter's" major design dilemma is getting the up an down motion of the wings to be strong enough for lift off, while not destroying the body of the plane in the process. Modern piloted ornithopters, despite Kevlar and Plexiglas, are thus still on the ground.
But researchers at the University of Toronto's Institute for Aerospace Studies claim their machine will either get off the ground in the next few weeks, or prove that a bird-brained plane is an impossible design challenge.
"It's been a balancing act, challenging the aerodynamics and structural dynamics," said Derek Bilyk, an engineer who came to the project as a graduate student three years ago. " This fall, we will have taken the aircraft to the limits of its performance, but we're pretty sure it's gonna fly; ninety percent sure."
The researchers have reason to be optimistic. The ornithopter did achieve a take-off speed of 55 miles-per-hour last month, powered only by an engine and its bird wings. But the bouncing of the craft was reportedly very uncomfortable for the pilot and may have shaken the plane toward destruction and so the plane was stopped.
Bilyk revealed the landing gear has since gone through a redesign to make it more shock-absorbent, which the eight man team believes will make a viable aircraft, albeit a likely commercial flop.
"I can't think of a good commercial use for it," lamented Bilyk. "But nobody has been successful at it, and yet it the oldest dream of flight."
http://www.ornithopter.net/index.html
actually you beat me to the obvious magic referrence, damn you!
ornithopters have been flying for years in the magic world!
i also think it should be noted that only *piloted* ornithopters are non-existant, i'm sure everyone's seen little model ones you can buy at the store (the most famous of which being the wound rubber band plastic bird.)
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
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hey man its 2 cool. i want that. are you gifting that to me ???
Computer Help
Maybe it's just me, but ornithropter reminds me too much of a combination I used to love dearly. Cast Enduring Renewal; Cast Ashnods Alter; Cast Ornithropter; Sacrifice Ornithropter to ashnods alter to gain two generic mana, return ornithropter to hand because of enduring renewal; repeat action until you have about 30000000 mana and then cast fireball. :)
Can't find the casting cost ANYWHERE.
If it's still 0 I'll buy some !!!
Reality has a notoriously liberal bias -- Stephen Colbert
Mind you, I'm not an engineer. But as a kid, I did build a pair of wings to strap on to my arms. I was really convinced it would work. I imagined how impressed my neighbors would be when they saw me soaring overhead. Alas, when I jumped off our doghouse with the wings strapped to my arms, the dream came to an end.
You had me at "dicks fuck assholes".
but the error message is accurate / good:
...
HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected Internet Information Services
403.9, eh
S
"It's a good thing they reevaluated all those wacky old designs." Hugh Parkfield, episode 2F15 "Lisa's Wedding"
Hey freaks: now you're ju
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You're using her as bait, Master!
Uh oh... they might have their license revoked by Microsoft. That error message looks a bit disparaging.
Seen any BadMarketing lately?
But researchers at the University of Toronto's Institute for Aerospace Studies claim their machine will either get off the ground in the next few weeks, or prove that a bird-brained plane is an impossible design challenge.
So if their current project doesn't work, we can all stop working on the problem. They've done everything that can be done, learned everything that can be learned, tried everything that can be tried. We have finally reached the limits of human knowledge.
Whew. Thank God that's over. All that exploration and research was starting to get exhausting.
Nope, no sig
*whistles quietly as a legion of Sardaukar moves in to confiscate all research related to the ornithopter*
-AC (Anonymous Corrino)
I'd like to know if there's any kindo of economic issue. I know that today is much more expensive, but what about in the future, is it a technology that worth?
Hey, don't forget that I'm talking about direct issues, I know that it'll surely improve aerodynamics, and mechanics and other sciences. I wanna know about the ornithopter itself.
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
I left Toronto about 6 years ago and they had flown this (or something similar) before then.
the rubber bandit! Unfortunately their site is down right now, but google cache gives you an idea: a giant rubber-powered airplane that is supposed to fly a person some day. A journalist' comment about what mess it would be if the rubber band broke still makes me laugh.
Screw the 'thopter. I'd rather have a 300 meter worm.
OK, so way back in the day, some dude who invented stuff (well actually, the greatest inventor ever, but still) came up with a machine that flapped it's wings like a bird. So, from the article...
"I can't think of a good commercial use for it," lamented Bilyk. "But nobody has been successful at it, and yet it the oldest dream of flight."
I don't think I need to say much more. This is nifty, but as with most educational research, is useless.
~ now you know
I searched google and found some pictures
Does anyone know which one is the one they are talking about in the artical?
-Jon
this is my sig.
Interesting engineering challenge, but how would it be applied in the real world? Too much mechanical complexity to be economically feasible.
Karma: Professionally Doomed (mostly affected by inability to keep opinions to self)
Heck with superman, they'll bring back airwolf now with a new flapping plane to take out communism!
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ok, so maybe fish scales are super efficient, but it seems to me that a turbine is a more robust method of thrust then a birds wing (ignoring gliding at the moment). otherwise, wouldn't nature have evolved birds that fly at 500 mph?
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could someone arrange for all RPG related posts to be instantaneously transferred back to the RPG dimension whence the came? it's absolute gibberish these fools talk. THEY NEED PSYCHOLOGICAL HELP THESE FEAKS, THEY HAVE DISEASED BRAINS.
That was classic intercourse!
What strikes me with this project, is that the thing still has to go to 55Mph to take off.
Most bird take off instantly with just flapping.
Note that the uncomfortable feeling for the pilot on their last test would have been eliminated with instant take off.
I will not consider the thing a succes as long as instant take off is implemented (or at least take off will running instead of rolling).
When will we see these on Battlebots?
I've been thinking about building my own (unmanned) ornithopter ever since seeing UTIAS's prototypes flying on Discovery Channel a few years back.
To eliminate vibration in most of the craft, you can use two pairs of wings arranged dragonfly-style. Diagonally opposite wings would move in one direction, and the other diagonally opposite pair would move in the other direction 180 degrees out of phase.
The center of mass of the unit stays in one place, and the forces of the wings on the air are symmetrical, so vibration is only in the engine.
Your thrust would still "vibrate" at twice the wings' flapping frequency, but a shock absorber should take care of that. It's vibrating up and down as the wings flap that's the big problem, and using two pairs of wings solves this problem.
As for this being an insurmountable design challenge - it isn't. The mechanics of ornithopters and of bird and insect flight have been well-understood for quite a while now. It's just a materials and engineering issue, and we have enough of a handle on both to build ornithopters.
The real reason why you don't see bird-planes flapping across the sky - and won't in the future - is that using flapping wings is only a benefit for slow-moving craft, and existing slow-moving craft are already adequately efficient (actually, a helicopter might even be _more_ efficient than an ornithopter).
[For anyone wondering, the efficiency gain of an ornithopter comes from it moving a larger mass of air more slowly to generate thrust; same reason a propeller's more efficient than a jet turbine, and a helicopter's blades are more efficient than an airplane's propeller. You're just limited to a slower speed, due to several concerns.]
1st turn Ornithopter, tropical island, mox diamond, rancor, rancor 2nd turn, Unstable Mutation, Wild Might, attack for 12 I play a deck that does this regularly... don't knock the 'thopter =P
1st turn Ornithopter, Tropical Island, Mox Diamond, Rancor the Ornithopter twice 2nd turn Land, Unstable Mutation, Wild Might, attack for 12 with an ornithopter Don't knock the 'thopter =P
I sure wouldn't want to be the pilot or passenger on such a machine.
This should make a 100% guaranteed air sickness machine. Imagine bumping up and down under those flapping wings for an hour or two.
I have seen with my own eyes, a working, free flight toy ornithopter, powered by a windup rubber band.
It flew like a manic, frantic bird, with wings flapping rapidly, as if trying to escape from a predator.
I saw it years ago in a toy department in a Montreal store and I believe it was imported from France.
Works great until your opponent casts disenchant.
Or divine sacrifice
or shatter
or any of the other anti-artifact spells..
"I can't think of a good commercial use for it," lamented Bilyk. "But nobody has been successful at it, and yet it the oldest dream of flight."
:-P
Perhaps next, Bilyk can try the old "Lead into Gold" at least there would be a good comercial use for it
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
If I'm not mistaken spandex, kevlar and velcro all started out as educational items until someone found a use for them.
My favorite is the story of the postit note -- started out as a super glue which didn't stick so well...
Rod Taylor
OH lots of things started out as educational items, I'm just saying that in my experience with research and projects at universities, they rarely produce anything worth value in the real world. They do, however, produce great knowledge of the fundamentals of science, which is useful... eventually...
~ now you know
PANTS
At least I think they got played. There was an old deck called "Fruity Pebbles" based around Ornithopter (0/2 for 0 mana), Goblin Bombardment (Enchantment: Sacrifice a creature to deal 1 damage to something), and Enduring Renewal (If one of your creatures dies, it returns to your hand). Of course, the smarter players used Shield Wall and Phyrexian Walker as more efficient 0cc creatures, but the deck could and did indeed win tournaments.
-Ted
After all Toy ornithopters ahve been functional sicen ebfore Iw as a child.. and I'm older then the average slashdotter.
Youll notice that on birds, the feathers act as an aerodynamic surface on the up stroke, so they can cut through the air much more easily than if they were just a flat surface, but they act like a parachute on the down stroke...
Imagine all the moving parts that would be required to make such a thing happen on an ornithopter....
The same group also produced a scale model ornithopter that successfully flew a few years ago.
Feel free to slashdot the following links. 'Mr. Bill' in flight (MPEG) and a bit of background UTIAS Flight Dynamics .
Spandex is extremely educational when it is properly applied on someone else.
A bird may only move in the several miles per hour range, but it does it by eating bits of flowers. A jet engine moves 50-100 times faster but consumes a lot of powerful fuel that has something like 20K-50K times more energy stored in it than those bits of flowers do. Thus, the bird is more efficent, even if he's slower.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
http://www.utias.utoronto.ca/lowsped.htm
look under "Ornithopters" heading.
just my blog and pix
the link goes to the wrong place. Here is the real site.
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
The link now points to the boringly detailed description of a solar cookstove.
You think dune, I think Magic: The Gathering. Got an Orny in my first deck ever. Took me months to finally realize how bad the card sucks. =P
And the hordes cry out, "But it's better than a Kobold!"
-Kasreyn
Kasreyn: Cheerfully playing the part of Devil's Advocate to hairtrigger
When will we see these on Battlebots?
Sorry, but the Battlebots rules (160 KB PDF) do not yet provide for a powered flight category. See rule 3.5.
Will I retire or break 10K?
you see the title of this article, and immediately think someone is ripping off Magic: The Gathering Cards
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
sorry for the problems. Didn't know it was ever going to be slashdotted.
and you pose as another person, you should change your profile so it at least LOOKS like you're a different person, you numb fuck.
Negatively cambered wings still cause fluids to take a longer path over the top at positive angles of attack (I don't have any wind tunnel pics to show you, but a quick google search revealed this interesting 1932 NACA wind tunnel study). It's less efficient, but most small aircraft still manage to spec a few negative G's as part of their flight envelope.
Yes, almost all aerobatic aircraft have symmetrical (zero-camber) wings, not to make their maneuvers possible, but to make them easier.
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology /space_gear-2.html
There's nothing about an ornithopter on the link in the article. Searching space.com, I couldn't find anything about one.
chuk
I think feathers have something to do with increasing birds efficiency in this respect. On the upstroke, the feathers spread and align in such a way that the wind passes through and between them. On the downstroke, they overlap together and 'balloon' to capture the air.
There's also the rigid leading edge that drags the feather up at an angle that cuts through the air on the upstroke, but which also supports the 'ballooning' on the down stroke. The aircraft seems to capture this aspect, but not that of the feathers, which would require a LOT of engineering!
**>>BELCH
It's good to hear it was the reporter who got it wrong, rather than the scientists.
Nope, no sig
Enduring Renewal
2WW, Enchantment, Ice Age Rare
Play with the cards in your hand face up on the
table. If you draw a creature card from your library, discard it.
Whenever a creature goes to your graveyard from play, put that creature into your hand.
That which lasts longest serves best.
Illus. Harold McNeill
Courtesy of MTGNEWS.COM's Ultimate Spoiler generator...
you could use a goblim bombardament, or a ashnod's altar (sac a creature, add 2 colorless mana to your mana pool)...actually a quite effective combo deck...