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Tiger MP Dual-Processor Motherboard
CtrlPhreak writes: "Anandtech has posted a review of an affordable AMD 760 based motherboard, the Tyan Tiger MP. It's basically the Tyan Thunder K7 without all the integration. For $220, it's a great deal. It has the exact same performance as the Thunder, and it is tested to run fine with those cheap and fast 1ghz durons. They say Tyan is putting out this board to compete with other offerings of a cheap 760 platform, we can only hope."
Damn... $220 for a motherboard? what happened to sub $100 motherboards?
Read the article again. It's a dual-CPU motherboard, meaning you can plug in a pair of Athlons or Durons. Sub-$100 motherboards support a single CPU.
What's your damage, Heather?
The Tiger MP is a sweet mobo. However, AMD will be coming out with a new MP chipset called the 760MPX. The MPX has two distinct improvements. First, registered DDR RAM will not be necessary. Any old DDR RAM will do. Secondly, the MPX will support 66Mhz 64-bit PCI slots.
We have photographs of the new Asus and MSI 760MPX mobos.
One is quite enough to heat up my appartment during the coldest winter nights. That motherboard is for someone with a big house or something.
Je t'aime Stéphanie
Nice thing about this board in comparison with Tyan's other AMD MP offerings is the fact that you can use a standard ATX power supply. Tyan's previous boards required that you purchase a proprietary 450W power supply. They recommend at least 300W, though. I'm running one of these right now with a single 1.2 Palomino on the 300W PS that came with my In-Win Q500N with no problems as of yet. While it can handle a standard power supply now, Tyan still recommends that you use Registered PC2100 RAM for it. I was able to find 256M for around $50 or so.
I recommend Einux Systems if you are looking for a place to purchase a motherboard processor combo for this board.
Before this board came out I was going to go for a dual PIII 1Ghz system, but since that type of processor is always going to stay at 1Ghz, I figured it was worth the extra money to be able to upgrade this board to wherever the Palomino chipset ends up (from what I've heard it the chipset should be able to scale up to 2Ghz or so).
There are supposed to be other boards released by Abit, MSI, etc. in the next month or two that will be even cheaper, but if you are like me and couldn't wait (and aren't planning on overclocking your system) then this board is a good choice.
I ordered one of these a few weeks ago, and unfortunately it arrived "Dead On Arrival".
I've been talking to a lot of other 2460 owners, and everyone is impressed, but everyone agrees that it can also be a very picky board.
There's been many reports of memory related problems, specifically with some brands of memory. The consensus so far is that Corsair memory has been the most reliable.
Once it's up an running though, there's been nothing but raving reviews.
MadCow... anxiously awaiting my replacement mobo...
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
Get the whole article in one shot with the Print Article link.
256Mb dimms are only $7.00 dollars more than their unregistered brethern. Checking crucial's site confirmed the cost really is not an issue
This looks the motherboard I was waiting for, as I don't need all the bells the previous offering had, let alone the price tag.
Granted a 64bit/66mhz bus chipset is coming out, but for those to whom this board appeals to most likely won't need the 66mhz PCI.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I've had trouble with getting tech support from Tyan. I've also had trouble with their manuals not being complete.
Bush's education improvements were
I've used AMD processors and would've bought AMD when I upgraded my machine 5 mos ago if the SMP capabilities were there but I'm not so certain now after the Tom's Hardware review. In the review (posted on /.) it demonstrated heatsinks being removed from the CPU while in operation. Both the PIII & PIV survived but the Athlons fried up with one taking the motherboard with it.
I think we all use Linux for it's across the board stability so why not apply those high expectations to the hardware we put in those boxes? I for one think that I may not be purchasing AMD until they address the fact that the heat monitoring system that works for a fan-failure should also work for aa heatsink begin dislodged. Else you may find yourself out the $$ for a processor as well as the cost of your kick-ass Tyan mobo.
"...and generally behaved in a manner one can only describe as despicable." - February 27 2001, Michael Sims
I have the Thunder K7 and I haven't had one problem with stability yet. I haven't had a problem in over a month so far, running Windows 2000. I'm running 2x Athlon MP @ 1.2GHz. I'm really happy with this machine. It really heats up the room, though. I have 5 extra case fans and the ones in the back blow out very hot air. That's the only downside to it so far.
Today is the closing of a parenthesis opened before this sig, before this story, before this existence that is me (as if
Note that the Tiger MP has problems with larger heatsinks due to the layout of the PCB. Check the Anandtech article for more info.
One other problem that the Anandtech article didn't mention is that the board does not have the four mounting holes around the processor sockets (like the P4s all have, and many AMD have). So forget about the latest Swiftech and Alpha heatsinks which require those holes.
Perhaps Tyan decided to omit the holes because there wasn't room anyways... the heatsinks that mount via screws tend to be bigger and may not have fit properly anyways. At the same time, I do like the mounting holes as I feel a lot safer when my heatsink is screwed onto the motherboard -- I don't want it popping off and allowing my processor to burn itself up.
Of course having two CPUs isn't as important as having 384 or 512 gigs of RAM, but it's a valid concern for the average home user...
See, these days, the average home user wants to run Nautilus and Netscape simultaneously in Enlightenment on top of GNOME with antialiased screen fonts and alpha-rendered transparent xterms, while he (or she) watches Antitrust on DVD in a window (if LiViD worked) and works in Photoshop running on VMWare.
This is what the average home user wants these days, and so the average home user is building his (or her) own PC because Dell and Gateway just aren't offering it.
To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.
NOt only did you get the dual athlons, you got dual 3com NICs, Adaptec 7899W dual channel Ultra160 SCSI controller (dual channel!), onboard ATI RageXL graphics. Add all that up as seperate components, and the board doesn't look that expensive. Espically when you have all that hardware and still have 5 ? 64-bit/33MHz PCI slots (backwards compatible with 32-bit/33MHz PCI devices).
:)
Overall, the board is competitive to server board offerings from Intel. I haven't been overly impressed with the onboard 3com nics however. Installing linux can be a chore as they don't always work except on the latest 2.2 kernels. The drivers included in Windows 2000 for these cards have a few bugs in them as well. In both cases it's fixable by driver/kernel updates, but could present an issue during installation.
And the problems I've had with the onboard 3com's have been on Dell motherboards anyway.
I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
monarchcomputer
These guys test out the board/cpu/ram for you. I haven't had any problems with mine which I have had for almost a month.
My only problem is noise. I got the ThermalTake Volcano II because it was listed as the lowest decibals.
But both those fans running are still horrendously loud.
The Palomino chipset has some MP optimizations, and is officially supported by AMD for MP use. The older processors will work, but don't perform as well in the benchmarks I've seen. The Anandtech review states that they were able to use the old Athlon chipset in this board too. I'm thinking that when they built their old chip they allowed SMP, but they didn't optimize for it (or perhaps there were other issues with the chip that we don't know about) and so they released a new chipset once the MP boards were ready that was optimized for it.
So, yeah, you can use the old Athlons in your Tyan 2460, but if you really want the performance, you'll want to go with their Palomino core. As a added benefit, the Palomino is supposed to run cooler too.
Once the prices settle after the October chip announcements, I'll be having one of these built with the Thunder board (unless something else comes along
hawk
Agilent Articooler Price
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
Does anyone know where I can get 512M DDR? I've seen a few places in the various price bots, but not at a decent price from anyone I'd trust to buy from.
On a related note, I recently read of servers equiped with Transmeta Crusoes having no fans. While I am sure the performance of the Crusoe is not as great as Athlons, it is a trade-off to consider imo. Here is a bit from a recent press release of the Crusoes:
"There ought to be limits to freedom"
The board has four DDR slots, you can only use two of them if you want to use unregistered DDR.
Here's a blatant rip from the review:
"As long as only two slots were filled, the stability was identical and the performance was roughly the same (the unregistered modules are theoretically faster but that doesn't translate into any tangible performance gains). When more than three unregistered DIMMs were installed the system would not POST; and adding a third registered DIMM to a set of two unregistered DIMMs would not boot either."
Reading the article closely before you post is a good thing.
In General, I can care less about the ATX form factor. Allowing the operating system advanced control over a switching power supply is something I regard as a conspiracy to thwart Linux's efforts for longest up-time. ACPI controllers have always been a waste of a perfectly-good IRQ. APM and "green-pc" was a thing of the past too. The powersupply should have interactivity with the operating system as to when it will shutoff and how many seconds power will remain "on", which is purely Unix-friendly in my POV. We don't need anying integrated on the motherboard: RS232 ports, Parallel Ports, USB, FloppyDisk Controller, IDE Controller.
This is legacy speeking to us on how we should have a generic system setup. We need a new device interface. Think of PCI, but without the bracket and IO connectors facing behind the computer, outside. Think of PCI in the middle of the board with IO riser-cables snaking to the front of the Computer Case to the actual user. Everyone enjoys easy access to their PCMCIA, CardBus, USB, Firewire, and RS232 ports on the front of the Computer; think of Compaq's idea. Or even think of a IO-Hub on a rotary arm that swivels from the computer case to wherever you want, without it touching your workspace.
Motherboard, we need them smaller. We need them more customizable. I want to see a Dual AMD AthlonMP Motherboard or Dual Pentium V Motherboard with a dependable number of 32bit PCI-slots, TWO AGP SLOTS, a nice array of 64bit PCI-slots, 4 168pin DIMM SLOTS, and DUAL CPU SLOTS that give courtesy to full-length PCI and AGP DEVICES. Frankly, I want a motherboard that is simply a BUS for the RAM, CPUs, and expansion cards. I want to add my own firewire and scsi interfaces and be able to remove them *with ease when they fail. I'm talking about a motherboard with the dimensions of 8 inches BY 8 inches. Can they do it? That's the challenge!
My comment on the Tyan is: "Those two remaining 32bit PCI slots will allove my Hercules Stingray 12MB Voodoo2 SLI-mode videocards some optimum motherboard usage. Too bad they stuck with ATX form factor and weren't able to integrate 7 PCI slots at their discretion."
But I'm sure you already Gnu that.
Factor in the free 2nd-day shipping and it looks like Crucial is still cheaper overall.
(No, I don't work for Crucial or Micron...but I've bought from them on more than one occasion and don't see myself buying memory from other vendors anytime in the near future.)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
although the MPX variant chipset "coming soon" will have it, so those RAID controllers get the larger memory chunk at a time.... mmmm yummy
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
However I tried to triple boot with Windows 98 so I can use a cheap video grabber card--my advice is DON'T EVEN TRY to install Win98 on this board. Mine installed fine but would not boot Win98.
Placing the heatsink/fans on the CPUs was kind of tricky. I had 2mm of clearance between my heatsink/fan of choice and the single row of capacitors on the board. If the caps didn't wiggle I wouldn't have been able to install the heatsink/fans.
I found humor on the inside cover of the manual. I was pleased to see in print that this motherboard is certified for *both* Win2k and RH 7.1. However that textual note was marked with an asterisk to the effect:
Hello Tyan! I believe Microsoft will stop meaningful support of Win2k long before that RH would stop meaningful support of RH 7.1. More info about that assertion here, here and here.Also, a warning. If you choose to install 1 Gb or so of ECC, registered memory, then booting takes a long time. There's some kind of POST that occurs for this kind of memory that delays my boot by like 30 seconds.
Finally, I just want to say that SMP is no magic bullet. For my purposes this board is fabulous. But in fact, some applications run more slowly on a dual CPU system. For example, any given single threaded program (read: first person shooter) will take a hit, say 2-5% of its speed. Your application has to use multiple threads to take advantage of this environment. Of course you can run more processes, that's nice.
You can judge for yourself if this is a good board for you. Look at the reviews for the Tyan Thunder K7, I feel they apply to the Tiger when it comes to processor performance. You can find review for that board here and here
I buy nearly ALL of my computer parts off of priceline - find the cheapest and get it.
but I've started buying my memory off of crucial due to the higher quality, and barely higher price. It is more of a crapshoot if you soley go the pricewatch way. I used to do that and scoff at those that did otherwise, but then got burned muliple times with crap.
crucial guarentees quality.
There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
I use a Noisecontrol Silverado. It's really quiet and was the winner in a Tom's Hardware roundup, and the quietest at 38db.
It cools my 1.2Ghz Athlon running at 1.35GHz just fine, and I can't hear it at all over the Antec case fans (which are quiet as well).
Price is an issue though -- it was $88 shipped to the US from Germany, but it arrived quickly.
It's 80mmx56mm, but it's 133mm tall because it uses twin squirrel-cage fans, so it's certainly not going to fit in a rack-mount, but it fits in a tower just fine.
Well, the price premium for 512MB DIMMS is a little sharp, but for the 256MB modules, the premium is minimal... and I'm one of those crazy guys who actually believes in ECC memory, too (after tracking some statistics... it is amazing what a noisy supply can do).
(for PC2100 - heck, these are so cheap now anyway)
256MB - $27 plain / $40 reg&ECC
512MB - $87 plain / $111 reg&ECC
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
There are some engines that can handle a catastrophic loss of coolant by running on fewer cylinders, and using the "unused" cylanders to help keep the engine cool (I know some Cadillacs have this).
It's a matter of quality. AMD is still deficient in some areas compared to Intel.
If you leave your machine running unattended, you probably would rather not have it catch fire.
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
Oh yeah, and it's set to something reasonable my default. You actually have to disable that if you want to fry your processor.
Next time you're going to whine, whine about something legitimate.
Dual processors can increase your gaming pleasure. DroneZ gets 20%-78% more fps with dual athlons.
These results came from a review of the Tyan Thunder K7
http://www.amdworld.co.uk/ty.htm
The bottom of this page has the benchmarks.
http://www.amdworld.co.uk/ty8.htm
Comparing 1 CPU vs 2 CPU (Athlon 1.2GHz MP)
1 CPU 2 CPUs Improvement
Highest Quality: 44.37 54 21.7%
High Quality: 61.2 98.9 61.4%
Medium Quality: 62.32 102.11 63.8%
Low Quality: 83.91 149.8 78.5%
It's an *EXCELLENT* board, a bit expensive but it doesn't have all the "problems" it's older brother had (power supply issues comes to mind).
:).
;)
BTW: KUDOS to anandtech for doing something more than quake benchmarks (not that I mind about quake benchmarks but only GAMES benchmarks and crap like sysmarks doesn't show the real potential of the board in a REALWORLD context, you can tweak a system/drivers for specific tests, EVEN if they are supposed to be the closest thing to realworld, manufacturer know exactly WHAT the websites are going to benchmark with and they will exploit everything they can). I really appreciate the fact that there was something like 3DSmax rendering numbers for example, you don't buy that kind of setup to play games, you buy it for cad, 3d, server, workstation, GENERALLY
Of course it's still a bit "expensive" right now, but since it's unique on the market due to tyan's exclusive deal with amd, I guess it's a bit normal for them to try to cash in on that, still it's WAY cheaper than the intel equivalent offering. The price will come down soon enough when Asus releases it's version and there were rumors about a gigabyte motherboard comming soon as well.
The only thing that would make me hesitate if I was someone without the budget and wanting to invest for a "longer term" solution, if there's supposed to be an HAMMER announcement from amd in october or november (with all you can read on the net) and the fact that it should run 3x the speed of an Athlon, you might want to hold off a bit, but else, it's an excellent choice, I've ordered 5 extra renderfarm nodes built on Tiger MP motherboards. The only thing I have to worry now is heat management
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
Doesn't the Palomino support SSE2 optimizations as well, so it is on par with PIII instructions as well as its own 3dnow.