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KDE 3.0 Alpha1 Available for Developers

Dre writes: "Just a few weeks after the release of the rock-solid KDE 2.2.1, the KDE Project today announced the release of KDE 3.0 Alpha1. Targeted at developers who want to get a head start on porting or writing applications to KDE 3, the release is pretty much a straight port of the KDE 2.2 branch to Qt 3. However, for developers this brings an impressive array of new features to KDE, including new database classes, new data-aware widgets, improved RAD development with a much-enhanced Qt Designer, a new powerful regular expression class (with full Unicode support), improved internationalization support (including the ability to mix different character sets in the same text), bi-directional language support (for languages such as Arabic and Hebrew), multi-monitor (Xinerama and multi-screen) support, better integration of pure Qt applications into KDE, and hardware-accelerated alpha blending. With the Qt port out of the way, the KDE developers can now focus on the planned KDE improvements. Read the full announcement here, or go straight to the source (alternative link)."

294 comments

  1. Great, just what we needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Now it'll run slower than ever! 2.2.1 compiled for i686 using obj-prelink is still as slow and bloated as Windows XP. Sorry, guys, but unless things ever get _faster_, I'll stay where I am.

    1. Re:Great, just what we needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      All this shouldn't happen, but Linus Torvalds is Gay!

    2. Re:Great, just what we needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where are you exactly?

    3. Re:Great, just what we needed by Comic+Book+Guy+1 · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Worst first post ever!!!

    4. Re:Great, just what we needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      KDE programs are very slow to compile and load.

      Now, you can blame it on gcc's C++ functionality (and probably be right), but the point is that KDE is a hell of a lot slower than GNOME. So, from my perspective, which is not that of a compiler designer, GNOME is a lot freaking faster than KDE.

    5. Re:Great, just what we needed by fault0 · · Score: 5, Informative

      > KDE programs are
      > very slow to compile
      use ./configure --enable-final
      this reduces compile times by more than half, in my experience

      > and load.
      Use objprelink.

      > but the point is that KDE is a hell of a lot slower than GNOME.

      From what? Load times? Look at other big applications written in C++ and compiled in g++, like Mozilla and OpenOffice. They tend to load slow too. If you actually look at speed of applications, KDE wins hands down. Konqueror versus Nautilus. Konqueror wins. KOffice versus StarOffice/OO, KOffice wins. Other components tend to be around the same speed.

      > So, from my perspective, which is not that of a compiler designer, GNOME is a lot freaking faster than KDE.

      Yeah, "ordinary users" don't even compile KDE or GNOME.

    6. Re:Great, just what we needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And who are you to judge about that? I compiled QT using gnome-terminal while I was running GNOME. I compiled kdelibs while I was runing GNOME. Why shouldn't I be using GNOME to compile KDE?

    7. Re:Great, just what we needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Konqueror versus Nautilus. Konqueror wins. KOffice versus StarOffice/OO, KOffice wins. Other components tend to be around the same speed.

      How picky do you want to be about this? Konqueror does not "load" fast than Nautilus... you load Konqueror at the start. The truth is, you are arguing over a or 2 seconds at most, and with the next relase of Nautilus, it'll be even faster.

      As for OpenOffice/Koffice - Koffice is separate apps. OO isn't. Good or bad design decision, it's got fuck all to do with GNOME stuff loading slowly. GNOME/GTK stuff loads *fast*, while KDE programs slog into memory like a fat wheezing old smoker with only one lung.

      Use objprelink.

      You crack me up... got any other hacky workarounds to make up for shitty design and coding in KDE?

    8. Re:Great, just what we needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      XP isn't bloated compared to GTK+.

      And Qt is faster then GTK+, and as fast as XP.

      Idiot.

    9. Re:Great, just what we needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...and with the next relase of Nautilus, it'll be even faster."

      Do you have any facts backing that up, or are you just talking out of your ass?

    10. Re:Great, just what we needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, check out the recent GNOME threads regarding Redhat's Nautilus performance tuning. The forthcoming improvements are pretty dramatic.

      Now disappear, asshole.

    11. Re:Great, just what we needed by fault0 · · Score: 1

      > You crack me up... got any other hacky workarounds to make up for shitty design and coding in KDE?

      You mean shitty design and coding of g++?

  2. Long wait by Kryptolus · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    When is GTK2.0 going to be out already?

    --

    --
    Violators will be prosecuted and prosecutors will be violated.
    1. Re:Long wait by Comic+Book+Guy+1 · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Worst troll ever!!!

  3. My Experience with the Linux DOS by egg+troll · · Score: -1

    I work as a consultant for several fortune 500 companies, and I think I can shed a little light on the climate of the open source community at the moment. I believe that part of the reason that open source based startups are failing left and right is not an issue of marketing as it's commonly believed but more of an issue of the underlying technology.

    I know that that's a strong statement to make, but I have evidence to back it up! At one of the major corps(5000+ employees) that I consult for, we wanted to integrate Linux into our server pool. The allure of not having to pay any restrictive licensing fees was too great to ignore. I reccomended the installation of several boxes running the new 2.4.9 kernel, and my hopes were high that it would perform up to snuff with the Windows 2k boxes which were(and still are!) doing an AMAZING job at their respective tasks of serving HTTP requests, DNS, and fileserving.

    I consider myself to be very technically inclined having programmed in VB for the last 8 years doing kernel level programming. I don't believe in C programming because contrary to popular belief, VB can go just as low level as C and the newest VB compiler generates code that's every bit as fast. I took it upon myself to configure the system from scratch and even used an optimised version of gcc 3.1 to increase the execution speed of the binaries. I integrated the 3 machines I had configured into the server pool, and I'd have to say the results were less than impressive... We all know that linux isn't even close to being ready for the desktop, but I had heard that it was supposed to perform decently as a "server" based operating system. The 3 machines all went into swap immediately, and it was obvious that they weren't going to be able to handle the load in this "enterprise" environment. After running for less than 24 hours, 2 of them had experienced kernel panics caused by Bind and Apache crashing! Granted, Apache is a volunteer based project written by weekend hackers in their spare time while Microsft's IIS has an actual professional full fledged development team devoted to it. Not to mention the fact that the Linux kernel itself lacks any support for any type of journaled filesystem, memory protection, SMP support, etc, but I thought that since Linux is based on such "old" technology that it would run with some level of stability. After several days of this type of behaviour, we decided to reinstall windows 2k on the boxes to make sure it wasn't a hardware problem that was causing things to go wrong. The machines instantly shaped up and were seamlessly reintegrated into the server pool with just one Win2K machine doing more work than all 3 of the Linux boxes.

    Needless to say, I won't be reccomending Linux/FSF to anymore of my clients. I'm dissappointed that they won't be able to leverege the free cost of Linux to their advantage, but in this case I suppose the old adage stands true that, "you get what you pay for." I would have also liked to have access to the source code of the applications that we're running on our mission critical systems; however, from the looks of it, the Microsoft "shared source" program seems to offer all of the same freedoms as the GPL.

    As things stand now, I can understand using Linux in academia to compile simple "Hello World" style programs and learn C programming, but I'm afraid that for anything more than a hobby OS, Windows 98/NT/2K are your only choices.

    thank you.

    --

    C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
    1. Re:My Experience with the Linux DOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Nice to have you back egg troll.

    2. Re:My Experience with the Linux DOS by egg+troll · · Score: -1

      Thanks. Its nice to be back. I'm spinning off that whole VB thing into its own troll. Keep watching for it!!

      PS: It might be a few days before it gets posted because the homosexual cabal of devil-worshipping Slashdot editors keeps bitchslapping me for posting the truth :(

      --

      C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
    3. Re:My Experience with the Linux DOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Yeah, they suck. Keep up the good work.

    4. Re:My Experience with the Linux DOS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Only stupid morons will love IIS, this is an excellent proof.

      And Only those MS IIS morons whose brains are full of horse manures will believe that any one can just d/l a Linux kernel and expect everything to go smooth sailing.

      All the Linux vendors, Red Hat, Mandrake, Caldera, etc., all sell server versions of their distributions. Yes, those Linux servers are not free, but they are still much cheaper than W2K. Also, those distros will never use the newest release. Only morons with horse shit brains will do that.

      A moron is a moron is a moron!

  4. first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    try

  5. RAD Development by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use RAD Development when you are securing PIN numbers for ATM machines!

  6. Haven't you heard? by egg+troll · · Score: -1

    GTK has ceased work on 2.0. It was posted a week or so ago on Slashdot. I'll find the article if I can. Apparently GTK decided that C++ was too slow compared to C, so they've decided to work with the KDE team and make KDE shine!!

    --

    C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
    1. Re:Haven't you heard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      Hello egg troll Robert Fro57 says you suck and are a penis licker.

    2. Re:Haven't you heard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      An even bigger shock may be to learn that Miguel de Icaza is gay...

  7. Solaris Uses Gnome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    So KDE will go away soon; don't waste your time

  8. The planned features list by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The planned features list seems a little unambitious to me. I know that many of the programmers working on KDE are top-notch, but there needs to be some other talent in there as well. In my opinion the KDE developers need to be concentrating on productivity features. They have the opportunity to be at the forefront of that kind of thing. Microsoft wastes plenty of money in researching that kind of thing, but they lack the flexibility to be cutting edge.

    1. Re:The planned features list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      There won't be huge changes because this is only a small improvement. The reason it makes such a large version jump is stay with Qt. Otherwise it would be called 2.3.

    2. Re:The planned features list by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I suppose so. I'll have to try developing a couple applications for it to see what it's like.

    3. Re:The planned features list by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 4, Informative
      Remember, KDE 3.0 is mostly just a port, with the same amount of new features you might expect going from, say 2.2 to 2.3. It is *nothing* at all like the nearly complete rewrite going from KDE 1 to KDE 2.

      That said, I expect that there will be far more new features in KDE 3.0 than what's described on that page. Most likely the developers just haven't bothered to tell anyone about all the new features they're going to add yet.

      And with KDE's blazing release schedule, 3.1 will be upon us before we know it, with all sorts of goodies :-)

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    4. Re:The planned features list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's pretty optimistic..."I expect that there will be far more new features"?

    5. Re:The planned features list by Arandir · · Score: 3, Insightful

      KDE is a *desktop*, not a productivity suite. Microsoft may be attempting to add everything but the kitchen sink into their desktop, but that's not the way we do things in Unix land.

      In my never humble opinion, keep KDE a desktop and infrastructure, and spin off the extra stuff into their own projects (like they did with KOffice).

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    6. Re:The planned features list by Bilton · · Score: -1


      I'm waiting for my man
      Twenty-six dollars in my hand
      Up to Lexington, 125
      Feel sick and dirty, more dead than alive
      I'm waiting for my man
      Hey, white boy, what you doin' uptown?
      Hey, white boy, you chasin' our women around?
      Oh pardon me sir, it's the furthest from my mind
      I'm just lookin' for a dear, dear friend of mine
      I'm waiting for my man
      Here he comes, he's all dressed in black
      P.R. shoes*and a big straw hat
      He's never early, he's always late
      First thing you learn is you always gotta wait I'm waiting for my man
      Up to a Brownstone, up three flights of stairs
      Everybody's pinned you, but nobody cares
      He's got the works, gives you sweet taste
      Ah then you gotta split because you got no time to waste
      I'm waiting for my man
      Baby don't you holler, darlin' don't you bawl and shout
      I'm feeling good, you know I'm gonna work it on out
      I'm feeling good, I'm feeling oh so fine
      Until tomorrow, but that's just some other time
      I'm waiting for my man

    7. Re:The planned features list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's amazing, or maybe just pathetic, what lengths people will go to in order to distance themselves from Microsoft. For example, commenting about their kitchen sink tactics, even while admitting that KDE has become a kitchen sink in in the very next sentence.

      Anyway, you have a point that Microsoft (or any other commercial vendor, Unix vendors included) wouldn't embark on a "major upgrade" which is basically nothing more than porting to a new rev of APIs and offers very little to the end user.

      Seems to be a rather developer-oriented project. The cynical among us would question the priority of moving to Qt3 with regard to the fact that TrollTech employs key developers.

    8. Re:The planned features list by jilles · · Score: 4, Insightful

      By definition, infrastructure should encapsulate every feature that is common to the applications that use it. The problem with UNIX is that such infrastructure is lacking. This has lead to a situation where in order to be able to compete with ms windows (which does have such infrastructure), applications have to include everything and the kitchen sink. Look at star office, it comes with its own widgets, its own printing subsystem, its own way of embedding components and until the recent beta it even came with its own desktop. Sure it is integrated with Gnome/KDE to some extent but since it also needs to be portable across the two it contains a lot of duplicated functionality.

      KDE developers have understood this and are currently working to deliver such an infrastructure. Ignorant critics complain about konquerors ability to be both a browser and a file manager. However, once you understand what infrastructure is supposed to be you recognize that same ability as a good working infrastructure. File managers and browsers have a lot in common and therefore you might as well integrate them so that you don't have to invent the light twice.

      The UNIX philosophy is to make something small and only once. Most unix applications only meet the first part of that philosophy and have to duplicate everything and the kitchensink because it is either not present in the infrastructure or not consistent enough to allow for easy integration (this should also be facilitated by the infrastructure).

      --

      Jilles
    9. Re:The planned features list by be-fan · · Score: 2

      Seems to be a rather developer-oriented project. The cynical among us would question the priority of moving to Qt3 with regard to the fact that TrollTech employs key developers.
      >>>>>>
      Actually, there is nothing to be cynical about. Qt3 is a big step up from Qt2. For example, it is finally thread-safe. Qt2 was also, in theory, but threading features were unused in KDE programs because of the immaturity of Qt's thread saftey. Check out the Qt3 features list.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    10. Re:The planned features list by Arandir · · Score: 2

      For example, commenting about their kitchen sink tactics, even while admitting that KDE has become a kitchen sink in in the very next sentence.

      I didn't say KDE had the kitchen sink included, but I will cede the point. What I am arguing is that it *shouldn't* have the kitchen sink.

      Not every KDE application needs to be a part of the core KDE. Keeping KOffice as its own project is a Good Thing(tm). Other ideas of that magnitude should be separate projects as well.

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
  9. In case of Slashdotting, break glass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Redundant

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

    Third Generation KDE Desktop Ready for Developers

    KDE Ships Alpha of Third Generation of the Leading Linux Desktop for Developers

    October 5, 2001 (The INTERNET). The KDE Project today announced the immediate release of KDE 3.0alpha1, the third generation of KDE's free, powerful and easy-to-use free Internet-enabled desktop for Linux and other UNIXes. KDE 3.0 is scheduled for its first beta release this December and for final release in late February 2001.

    This inaugural release of the KDE 3, which follows two weeks after the stable release of KDE 2.2.1 series, is based on TrollTech's Qt 3.0.0beta6. It ships with the core KDE libraries, the core desktop environment, and over 100 applications from the other base KDE packages (administration, multimedia, network, PIM, utilities, etc.).

    The primary goal of the 3.0alpha1 release is to provide a framework for developers to start porting their KDE 2 applications to KDE 3 and to solicit developer feature contributions and feature requests before the KDE 3 API is frozen for binary compatibility. In addition, experimental KDE users who would like to try this release can set up a KDE 3 system side-by-site with a KDE 2 system. Instructions for doing so are available here.

    Additional information about KDE 3 is available at the KDE website, including a tentative release plan, a KDE 3 info page, and a list of planned features.

    Improvements

    For both developers and users, KDE 3 offers substantial improvements and additions compared to KDE 2 (the great bulk of which are, at this juncture, due to the switch to Qt 3):

    For the developer:

    Database access. KDE 3 provides a database-independent API for accessing SQL databases. It provides support for ODBC as well as direct support for Oracle, PostgreSQL and MySQL databases (custom drivers may be added as well). Data-aware widgets. New database-aware controls provide automatic synchronization between the GUI and the database. RAD Development. A greatly improved Qt Designer now supports interactive construction of the application main windows with menus and tool bars in addition to dialogs. It supports KDE, Qt and custom widgets, including preview, and can be used in conjunction with KDevelop. Regular expressions. KDE 3 features a new and powerful regular expression engine. While compatible with, and as powerful as, Perl regular expressions, the Qt regular expression classes additionally provide full support for international (Unicode) character sets. Internationalization. The addition of Qt Linguist as an alternative to KBabel. Qt Linguist allows users to convert KDE-based programs from one language to another seamlessly, simply and intelligently. Qt Linguist helps with the translation of all visible text in a program, to and from any language supported by Unicode (including Unicode 3), and can be used in conjunction with KDevelop.

    For everyone:

    International text support. KDE 3 offers radically improved support for displaying non-Latin alphabets. In addition, characters of different character sets may be freely mixed in the same text, even without Unicode fonts installed. Bidirectional language support. KDE 3 provides full support for right-to-left and bidirectional languages, such as Arabic and Hebrew. Multi-monitor support. KDE 3 provides support for both Xinerama and the traditional multi-screen technology. KDE/Qt Integration. KDE 3 improves the integration of pure Qt applications into KDE by applying the KDE widget style plugins to pure Qt applications. Pure Qt applications thus largely achieve the KDE look and feel. In addition, the Qt style engine has been extended to support a wider range of standard widgets, including progress bars, spin boxes, and table headers. Hardware accelerated alpha blending. This features, among other things, makes disabled icons look nice. HTTP improvements. The HTTP kio-slave is going to support HTTP pipelining, which provides much faster downloading of web sites containing numerous images.

    Most of these improvements result directly from the switch to Qt 3, which has been the focus of KDE 3 code development so far. Improvements to the KDE libraries and applications themselves are planned for the successive beta releases leading to the first stable KDE 3. A list of these planned features is available here.

    Porting to KDE 3

    Since KDE 3 is mostly source compatible with KDE 2, porting applications from KDE 2 to KDE 3 can usually be done surprisingly quickly. The process is substantially easier than it was for porting from KDE 1 to KDE 2, and even very complicated applications can be ported in a matter of a few hours.

    Instructions for porting KDE 2 applications to KDE 3 are available separately for the KDE libraries and the Qt libraries. Most of the changes required for the port applications pertain to changes in the Qt API. Although neither the KDE 3 nor the Qt 3 APIs are frozen, few changes are anticipated for the final releases of KDE 3.0 and Qt 3.0.0, respectively.

    Downloading and Compiling KDE 3.0alpha1

    KDE and all its components (including KDevelop and KOffice) are available for free under Open Source licenses from the KDE ftp server and its mirrors and can also be obtained on CD-ROM.

    Library Requirements. KDE 3.0alpha1 requires qt-3.0.0beta6, which is available in source code from Trolltech as qt-x11-3.0.0-beta6.tar.gz, as well as libxml2 >= 2.3.13, available here.

    Compiler Requirements. Please note that some components of KDE 3.0alpha1 will not compile with older versions of gcc/egcs, such as egcs-1.1.2 or gcc-2.7.2. At a minimum gcc-2.95-* is required. In addition, some components of KDE 3.0alpha1 (such as the multimedia backbone of KDE, aRts) will not compile with gcc 3.0 or 3.0.1, though the forthcoming gcc 3.0.2 release will most likely work.

    Source Code. The complete source code for KDE 3.0alpha1 is available for free download at http://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/kde-3.0-alpha1 /src/ http://master.kde.org/pub/kde/unstable/kde-3.0-alp ha1/src/ or in the equivalent directory at one of the many KDE ftp server mirrors.

    Further Information. For further instructions on compiling and installing KDE 3.0alpha1, please consult the installation instructions and, if you should encounter problems, the compilation FAQ.

    About KDE

    KDE is an independent, collaborative project by hundreds of developers worldwide working over the Internet to create a sophisticated, customizable and stable desktop environment employing a component-based, network-transparent architecture. KDE provides a stable, mature desktop, an office suite (KOffice), a large set of networking and administration tools, and an efficient and intuitive development environment, including an excellent IDE (KDevelop). KDE is working proof of the power of the Open Source "Bazaar-style" software development model to create first-rate technologies on par with and superior to even the most complex commercial software.

    Please visit the KDE family of web sites for the KDE FAQ, screenshots, KOffice information and developer information. Much more information about KDE is available from KDE's family of web sites.

    Corporate KDE Sponsors

    Besides the valuable and excellent efforts by the KDE developers themselves, significant support for KDE development has been provided by MandrakeSoft and SuSE. Thanks!

  10. goat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    yes and also robert frost

  11. oh boy more bloat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    can hardly wait till KDE reaches 4.0. it will be bloat bloat city. it is already fat as a christmas turkey and filled with as much shit.

  12. Lies! by egg+troll · · Score: -1

    Robert Fro57 lies! I never licked his penis. I only gave him a quick handjob in the men's room of Daddy's.

    --

    C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
  13. KDE is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    KDE is not going anywhere fast. That is the fax jax.

    1. Re:KDE is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's because the Linux loader is brain dead and slow. A *lot* of companies would like to use linux, but won't because of the ridiculous load times. I, and many others, have submitted patches to increase the library load speed, but they've been ignored.

    2. Re:KDE is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this si because linux must be kept slow to be kept stable as a server. A fast desktop is not technically possible on linux and is only possible on SGI-Irix, HP-UX and Solaris workstations by heinous hacking that Linux and FreeBSD etc. cannot achieve.

      Besides there is a conspiracy amongst companies to cause linux to fail on the desktop.

  14. Who Fucking Cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    Everyone knows that GNOME is light-years ahead. Fuck KDE.

  15. have you tried it mike? by quannump · · Score: 1

    from the as-unstable-as-windows dept.
    pff ... i bet it's stabler than slashcode

    --

    1. Re:have you tried it mike? by JollyTX · · Score: 1

      I was very dissappointed with the beta releases of KDE 2.0 (slow, crashed all the time); impressed with KDE 2.1 (a bit faster, more stable) , and I'm mad about 2.2 (fast, extremely stable) ! It's stable, it has tons of features I miss in Win* and I just love it.

      --
      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I'm not the man they think I am at home...
    2. Re:have you tried it mike? by infiniti99 · · Score: 2

      Actually I think he meant the 3.0 Alpha was probably unstable, not KDE in general. :P

    3. Re:have you tried it mike? by slashdot2.2sucks · · Score: -1, Troll

      made me change user names

      Slashdot requires you to wait 2 minutes between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at posting a comment.

      It's been 1 minute since you last successfully posted a comment

      If you this error seems to be incorrect, please provide the following in your report to Source Forge:

      Browser type
      User ID/Nickname or AC
      What steps caused this error
      Whether or not you know your ISP to be using a proxy or some sort of service that gives you an IP that others are using simultaneously.
      How many posts to this form you successfully submitted during the day

      * Please choose 'formkeys' for the category!
      Thank you.

    4. Re:have you tried it mike? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I think he was just trying to sound clever by slamming KDE.

    5. Re:have you tried it mike? by michael · · Score: 0

      Yes, of course. Alpha 1? It's going to be buggy like the cockroach exhibit at the zoo. I use KDE 2.2.whatever, and think it's great - but KDE 3.0 isn't great, not now anyway.

  16. I would believe this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    ...if it weren't for the fact that Egg Troll is gay!

  17. The Sexual Rage behind Islamic Terrorism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    The Islamic Homosexuals by Jamie Glazov

    ALL SERIAL KILLERS, almost without exception, are severely sexually abused as children. The kind of people who hijack a plane with innocent people and drive it into a building with thousands of other innocent people are related to this phenomenon.

    When sociopaths rape and kill, they do not see their victims as human beings, but only as objects. This is because the sociopaths were themselves, at one time, used as objects as their bodily integrity was repeatedly violated. The rage that results from sexual abuse is one thing, but when combined with living in a dysfunctional culture of sexual repression and misogyny, where love is reduced to violent domination, it is quite another.

    Throughout the Islamic Middle East, men and women are taught to be vehemently opposed to pleasure, especially of the sexual variety. Men are raised not only forbidden to touch women, but to even look at them. Sex before marriage is not just a sin -- but a criminal offence. It is punishable by a severe beating at best, and an execution at worst.

    The sexual privileges that are allowed in Islamic cultures are permitted to men. Womens sexuality and social independence represent major threats to male supremacy and are tightly controlled. Thus, as the Moroccan feminist Fitna Sabbah reveals in her book Woman in the Muslim Unconscious, there is a disturbing conflict in the Middle East between sexual libido and repression. A deep-seated fear of, and hostility to, individuality prevails, and its main expression exists in misogyny.

    Socially segregated from women, Arab men succumb to homosexual behavior. But, interestingly enough, there is no word for "homosexual" in their culture in the modern Western sense. That is because having sex with boys, or with effeminate men, is seen as a social norm. Males serve as available substitutes for unavailable women. The male who does the penetrating, meanwhile, is not emasculated any more than if he had sex with a wife. The male who is penetrated is emasculated. The boy, however, is not, since it is rationalized that he is not yet a man.

    In this culture, males sexually penetrating males becomes a manifestation of male power, conferring a status of hyper-masculinity. It is considered to have nothing to do with homosexuality. An unmarried man who has sex with boys is simply doing what men do. As the scholar Bruce Dunne has demonstrated, sex in Islamic societies is not about mutuality between partners, but about the adult male's achievement of pleasure through violent domination.

    There is silence around this issue. It is the silence that legitimizes sexual violence against women, such as honor crimes and female circumcision. It is also the silence that forces victimized Arab boys into invisibility. Even though the society does not see their sexual exploitation as being humiliating, the psychological and emotional scars that result from their subordination, powerlessness and humiliation is a given. Traumatized by the violation of their dignity and manliness, they spend the rest of their lives trying to get it back.

    The problem is that trying to recover from sexual abuse, and to recapture ones own shattered masculinity, is quite an ordeal in a culture where women are hated and love is interpreted as hegemonic control.

    With women out of touch and out of sight -- until marriage, males experience pre-marital sex only in the confines of being with other males. Their sexual outlet mostly includes victimizing younger males just the way they were victimized.

    In all of these circumstances, the idea of love is removed from men's understanding of sexuality. Like the essence of Arab masculinity, it is reduced to hurting others by violence. A gigantic rupture develops between men and women, where no harmony, affection or equality is allowed to exist. In relationships between men, meanwhile, affection, solidarity and empathy are left out of the picture. They threaten the hyper-masculine order.

    It is excruciating to imagine the sexual confusion, humiliation, and repression that evolve in the mindsets of males in this culture. But it is no surprise that many of these males find their only avenue for gratification in the act of humiliating the foreign "enemy," whose masculinity must be violated at all costs as theirs once was.

    Violating the masculinity of the enemy necessitates the dishing out of severe violence against him. In the recent terrorist strikes, therefore, violence against Americans served as a much-needed release of the terrorists bottled-up sexual rage. Moreover, it served as a desperate and pathological testament of the re-masculinization of their emasculated selves.

  18. Are there no new speed enhancements... by nusuth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Or did they just not made into press release? Kde 2.2.1 rocks but a bit more speed & responsiveness would be nice. I hope kde guys can achive something like the speed change from 2.1 to 2.2.1.

    --

    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

    1. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 4, Informative
      I think you just missed them. Look in the planned features list:

      icon server, Waldo Bastian bastian@kde.org
      KIO/KHTML: pipelined HTTP requests, infrastructure, Waldo Bastian bastian@kde.org

      I think the icon server in particular will help with startup times of KDE apps. The pipelined HTTP requests will make loading of webpages faster.

      In addition, a lot of the speed problems actually lie with GCC and the GNU linker, which KDE can't help with. The GCC and ld developers have been made aware of the problem, and a lot of work is going on on their end to speed up the dynamic linking of C++ programs. Once these optimizations start making it into stable releases of the linker, KDE will be much more responsive.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    2. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by nusuth · · Score: 1

      I don't know what an icon server is, that is why I "missed" :) Is it technically possible to prelink some commonly used programs using idle time? the first application start after kde start seq. would suffer but on average it may pay.

      --

      Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

    3. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 4, Informative
      I'm not familiar with exactly how the linker enhancements work, but I think they do something like you describe.

      About the icon server: Currently each KDE program that wants an icon (every one) goes and checks each directory where that icon might be found (of which there are a lot, KDE has a very customizable icon system). The icon server would catalog all the icons available on startup and serve them to the programs that need them whenever they ask, preventing a lot of disk reads. I think that's the basic idea.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    4. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      QT too slow and unresponsive for you, too? I found an easy fix.

    5. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by debrain · · Score: 5, Informative
      Yes, a pre-linker is what is being done with GCC. You might notice that kdeinit may run everything in KDE, from konqueror through konsole; that's because kdeinit is already linked. This is annoying when looking at the actual processes running. They're all kdeinit. Especially annoying for killing those zombieish konqueror sessions.


      The pre-linking relies on the fact that once libraries are loaded, they never move in memory. That could be a false assumption, but the gcc team is going to great ends to make sure it isn't. The issue as demonstrated is that 'helloworld' will be much larger, and much slower to load when it links against the QT libraries (or any large set of libraries). Thus, similar performance is lost when starting KDE applications linked against the QT libraries simply because they are all loading the QT library linkages.

    6. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, its definitely faster than that gnome flickering shit.

    7. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One word, xkill

    8. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL!

      Yeah, that's funny...

      GTK faster then Qt... hehehe.

      Have you actully used them? Drag a GNOME app around the screen the thing goes blank. A KDE app, it redraws properly.

      Why? Because Qt is not a slow, flickerly piece of shit.

      GNOME is fucked. GNOME 2.0 is pathetic. Compare the changes between KDE 1 and 2 to the changes between GNOME 1 and 2.

      GNOME is dying.

    9. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by debrain · · Score: 2
      Xkill doesn't kill the process owner; you will also notice that a zombied konqueror session will start up again the next time you start KDE. A problem with kdekillall is also that one generally doesn't want to kill everything, only selective unresponsive processes.


      It would be nice if xkill did kill the window owner's process, but with Konq, for example, it does not appear to.

    10. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by be-fan · · Score: 2

      KDE-2.2 seems to have made the startup thing a little better, but what really still bothers me is widget-drawing speed. Try this little experiement. Start up Word 97 (or 2000, don't know about XP). Resize it as fast as you can. Even on a low-end machine, it will keep up with out. The widgets will move to their proper places and the worst effect will be a little (faint) flicker. Now try the same thing With KWord. When resizing to make the window smaller, there is a visible delay in the toolbars moving to their new positions. When resizing to make the window larger, there is a visible grey area in the just-resized portion before the widgets draw in. For someone who spends a lot of time futzing with windows (me) the effect is really annoying.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
    11. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, KDE can't do anything about it. The bottleneck is in either QT or X, or maybe both. One thing you can do is choose one of the built-in QT styles instead of a style with lots of gradients and doodads. QT-Win is noticably faster than most KDE styles.

    12. Re:Are there no new speed enhancements... by be-fan · · Score: 2

      X doesn't seem to be the bottleneck since I have seen fast X apps. Qt also doesn't seem to be the bottleneck, since Qt apps run quite quickly on Windows. Try downloading the Qt "Theme" example program. It resizes beautifully, even though it has a lot of widgets on screen.

      --
      A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
  19. and by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Robert Fro57 likes 60475!

  20. Doesn't data aware widgets break the mvc paradigm? by caseih · · Score: 1

    Just curious. It seems to me that data aware widgets ties the view in too closely with the model and breaks the paradigm. Of course, MVC does have weaknesses, but it seems to be the driving paradigm of graphical user interfaces these days.

  21. Bah! by egg+troll · · Score: -1

    Hey I was a little nervous that night, and questioning myself. But I want you to know that I'm all man!!

    --

    C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
  22. Qt is 9/10ths commercial by mangu · · Score: 2

    They NEED large version number jumps.

    But I wish they would start releasing two different product lines: "commercial" and "geek".

    1. Re:Qt is 9/10ths commercial by jonathan_ingram · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, Qt have never artifically inflated their version number. The first number changes with major binary incompatible changes to the library, the second with additional features that keep binary compatibility, and the third with bug-fixes. KDE uses this numbering scheme as well.

      Just because you might be used to other projects (such as the Linux kernel) completely changing interfaces within minor version revisions, doesn't mean that is how a properly managed piece of software is versioned.

  23. GNOME _is_ obsolete by AirLace · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    The GNOME Project's great gift to the world has been to spur development of the older, more established rival KDE and more importantly, to prompt Trolltech into making the Qt libraries that underpin KDE free software.

    Sadly, GNOME is falling behind technically. I've seen the GNOME 2 APIs: it's a sorry mess of compiler pre-processor macros trying to achieve what KDE does with its use of C++. Claims that g++ is no good are no longer founded, it is now up to the standard of, and in many cases exceeds, the capabilities of its commercial counterparts.

    Furthermore, we can _see_ KDE being actively developed. There are regular releases, security patches -- the correct frame of mind for an Open Source project: release early, release often. On the other hand, GNOME seems to be being developed almost behind closed doors. It's true more with Open Source than other models that if you can't see something being developed, it generally isn't. We know for example, that Ximian has diverted its resources to Mono and .NET, a plaudible effort, but sadly not directly related to the Linux desktop as it stands today.

    Perhaps GNOME has reached the end of its natural life and should be put down to make way for a unified *NIX desktop?

    See El Reg's excellent article for a better explanation:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/22025.htm l

    AirLace, Free Software enthusiast, once devoted GNOME fanatic, WindowMaker user and hopeful future user of KDE.

    1. Re:GNOME _is_ obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      Troll?

    2. Re:GNOME _is_ obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Why do you try to promote KDE by putting down the competion? Let it stand on its own merits. Negative "marketing" like this always results in loss of market share as the public doesn't respond favorably to this shit (remember Pepsi?). The army of KDE markedroid-trolls that have invaded Slashdot is sickening, I'm sure the KDE devel team is shamed of people like you.

      BTW, KDE is butt ugly.

    3. Re:GNOME _is_ obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yep. I wonder how long it will take the Gnome zealots to realise this. Half of what most people class as being part of Gnome, are in fact simply applications written using GTK, and not in any way using Gnome libs.


      For all the badgering about now none existent licensing issues, and boasting about how great bonobo is going to be, it seems to me that Gnome is now far behind KDE.


      I wonder if Gnome 2 will ever see the light of day, and if Gnome development will continue for that matter. Personally, I hope not. I have found the attitudes of a lot of the Gnome core dev team to be hypocritical and arrogant.



      RIP Gnome: May it rest in pieces

    4. Re:GNOME _is_ obsolete by jonathan_ingram · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I think you're running the risk of turning from one sort of fanatic to another.

      When KDE was in transition from 1.1 to 2.0, a lot of people assumes that there was very little work going on, when in fact (as we now know) they were almost completely rewriting the core libraries. A similar thing is happening with Gnome -- and it's very hard to show people what you are doing until the main libraries are 90% complete. So lets give the Gnome guys a chance and see what they produce.

      (the only thing I'm waiting for to make me happy is for Lyx 1.2 to come out so I can finally get rid of that xforms library...)

    5. Re:GNOME _is_ obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      read http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/22025.html

      it's not just slashdot people that is saying it, it's almost everyone (gnome diehards excluded)

  24. WMs are obsolete by egg+troll · · Score: -1

    Window Mangers in generals are pretty gay. They're the Linux equivillant of the Christopher Lowell show. Real men use the command line. I myself don't use the command line because I'm fruitier than CmdrTaco in a sailor's outfit in Hawaii, bringing me a frosty glass of Zima!!!

    --

    C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
  25. Mod this up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Mod this up, this hits the spot! Bang on! Couldn't have put it better.

  26. KDE people don't know "backport" by vlad_petric · · Score: 0

    Does this mean that all new applications and new versions of the existing KDE applications will be targeted towards KDE 3.0 ? Long before KDE 2.0 stable was released, all new app releases worked only on KDE 2.0 betas. Users had to choose between an old version of an app on a stable system and a new version on an unstable system.

    --

    The Raven

    1. Re:KDE people don't know "backport" by puetzk · · Score: 1

      kde3 is a much smaller change than kde2, which was a complete rewrite. Think of it as kde2.3, ported to qt3 and prepared for gcc3. This means two things to app developers and compatibility.

      1) most of the differences are very minor, and in almost every case can be handled by a small bit of preprocessor magic. Most apps I know of that are converting to kde3 are taking this route first, making it possible to build for either platform.

      2) kde3's release cycle will be *much* shorter than kde2's was, where there was no release for a tremendous amount of time.

      In any case, there is at least one point release still planned for the kde2.2.x series, which should wrap up a last few outstanding issues before everyone moves on.

      --
      The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
  27. MOD THIS DOWN PLEASE!!! by egg+troll · · Score: -1

    Unfortunately this post was disparaging of Slashcode. Any post that is not wildly enthusiastic about the turd shat out by CmdrTaco upon the toilet of the Internet, should be modded down accordingly.

    Thank you and God Bless America!!!

    --

    C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
    1. Re:MOD THIS DOWN PLEASE!!! by 1010011010 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Good googley moogley, the trolls have found a way around the [hint.com] that we get for links now.

      This is the link:
      http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:bNohi649ixU :w ww.slashdot.org

      And I don't even want to describe what it is a picture of. Worse than goatse.cx...

      --
      Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
    2. Re:MOD THIS DOWN PLEASE!!! by egg+troll · · Score: -1

      Yep. Thats the whole fun of it. Taco thinks he's found a way to goatse.cx-proof his site, but it just makes my job much much easier. Taco needs to accept that anyone posting at -1 is a troll and be done with it. Troll containment is doomed to fail, and we'll drag Slashdot down with us! Haw! Haw! Haw!

      --

      C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
    3. Re:MOD THIS DOWN PLEASE!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go Egg Troll!

      Personally I think trolls are fuckin gh3y.. But your an exception.

      Your trolls are damn funny (usually intelligent (keep on milking that fortune 500 one - usualy gets a few bites here and there)).

      Everyone should surf /. at -1 thanks to j00!
      God Bless Egg Troll!

  28. unstable??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait
    please don't throw stones in a glass house michael.

    Slashcode 2.2 is a piece of shit and everybody knows it..
    How are you one to comment on the stablity on others software when any comments on your shitty site and db by the users get modded to oblivion??

    This rampant flamebaiting just constantly shows how little slashdot has evolved from an amateurish, whiny kids site.

    1. Re:unstable??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      I swear to god I'll rip your fucking throat out if you even try to talk again! Don't fuck with Miguel Ramirez, you dirty cracker!

  29. Slashdot editors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    ...the homosexual cabal of devil-worshipping Slashdot editors keeps bitchslapping me for posting the truth :(


    Yeah, we all know all Slashdot editors are gay

  30. Time to drop Gnome? by bhny · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    this is from the register -

    "A visiting Martian would surely conclude that the GNOME Project has served its purpose, and that for the community to continue bifurcated development is simply handing victory to The Beast. Enough, already. ®"

    1. Re:Time to drop Gnome? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surely ... and hear are some other things to drop

      OpenStep and ObjectiveC - these are long dead tehcnologies that may be elegant etc but have been surpassed by the superior and efficient C++ specification. By using these specs and languages in the core of OS/X Apple is merely throwing good money after bad here. At the very least hey should switch to java exclusively in the near term.

      Languages like C++ and Java should fade into the background and be displaced by C# - the excellent mulitilanguage neutrality of .NET will allow th transition to C# to take place slowly: say over a period of 18 months - 25 years. Eventually though things will be perfectly consistent.

      It's time to drop X (which was dead technology along time ago which through super human efforts the XFree team was able to revive ... X toolkits by definition should be scrapped since X is itself. The important toolkits like QT of course are muti-platform.

      Toolkits which cannot support native remote display should be elminated. Qt may be able to exist without X but can it support remote display? Perhaps on e solution would be Qt running on Windows using the Windows VNC server. Unfortunately this would limit the use of Qt to Windows (and possibly MacOS) since AFAIK a framebuffer version of VNC does not yet exist for Linux.

      MFC ... with the advent of .NET and C# MFC is surely as irrelevant as X ... n'est-ce pas?

      Toolkits which are non-native to the OS in which they are used should be eliminated This leads to confusion. It is also consistent with the idea that Java and C++ should be dropped in favour of C#. ...

      Hmmm taken all of the above seem to be mutually exlusive cancelling each other out and leaving us in a techno-quandary. If all technology is appropriately eliminated in favour of the "one web, one platform, one company approach" and that same company is using obsolete technology (like C++ and MVC etc) in parts of its platform, what to do???

      Nonetheless I support the point of the original post: elmination of extraneous projects and and overall tidying up of the world ...

      Implode everything and return to charcoal sticks and scratch marks on the walls is what I say ...

    2. Re:Time to drop Gnome? by hexix · · Score: 1

      Seems to me the reason you are seeing these projects moving so fast is because there are two. In fact if you just look at the planned features for KDE 3.0 a lot of them are the same as the planned features for GNOME 2.0 (bi-directional language support for example).

      I doubt having them both is hurting anything, people developing for GNOME probably are wanting something else out of a desktop than KDE and vice versa. So I doubt that killing one project would mean all those developers would jump ships.

      I think instead we should be trying to make the fact that two desktops exist just a trivial thing. Make them share stuff like application menus, desktops, etc. Another thing I'd really like to see is a common theme format, so the programs would look alike, although I doubt we'll ever see that.

  31. Egg Trolls Fake Pussy Technique by egg+troll · · Score: -1
    THE ULTIMATE GIF VIEWING ACCESSORY!


    The other day I found an amusing and informative text file on
    some BBS or other, explaining how to make a lifelike, artificial
    vagina "out of common household products."
    Hey, I thought, I've tried that. (Bet you have, too. Be honest.)
    I was intrigued.
    The guy who wrote it calls his device Porta-Pussy. It involves a
    mailing tube, a string, and a balloon. Basically, you lower the
    balloon into the tube, stretch the neck of the balloon to overlap
    the outer edge of the tube, then use the string to stretch the
    balloon down the length of the tube.
    He suggests taping the tube to the edge of a table, kneeling down
    and licking it for a while, then standing up and fucking it.


    I just tried fucking it. It wasn't bad. I decided not to try the
    advanced applications, though, which include sticking a dildo up
    your ass and drinking the cum as it leaks out of the tube. Another
    time, maybe.
    But I did admire his imaginative design; simple to make, reasonable
    facsimile, easy cleanup (throw away the balloon). His description
    made fun reading, too; "How I Spell Relief." I encourage others to
    download his file (called IWACK1.ZIP).


    So, in a spirit of sharing, here's my technique. It doesn't look
    as authentic as his, and it takes more preparation, but I think
    it feels MUCH closer to the real thing. Close your eyes and the
    PseudoCunt (this name just occurred to me; snappy, huh?) feels
    just EXACTLY like a warm, wet, tight pussy.
    You think I'm kidding, right? Nope. Read on, if you're so inclined.



    CONTENTS:


    1- Registration


    2- Materials & Ingredients


    3- Construction


    4- How to Use


    5- Hints & Techniques


    6- Troubleshooting


    7- Why I Created PseudoCunt


    REGISTRATION:


    Ha, ha. Get it? It's software. Real soft. If you figure
    out who I am, send me some money. PseudoCunt is not
    shareware, by the way. It's recommended for use alone.



    MATERIALS & INGREDIENTS:


    * Cylindrical container (see below)


    * Large pot (3-4 quart capacity)


    * Butter or margarine (2-3 tablespoons)


    * Vegetable oil (just a drop or two)


    * Saran Wrap or equivalent


    * Spaghetti or fettucini (lots; two boxes)


    * Sturdy rubber band


    * Several big, firm sofa cushions (optional)


    * Your favorite masturbation fantasies in magazine, video,
    gif, or virtual form



    CONSTRUCTION:


    1- Find a suitable container. This is the tough part. The
    best one I've found is an overlarge Mason-type jar (about
    11" tall), though these are hard to find. Second choice
    would be a length of PVC pipe sealed at one end, or a
    mailing tube, but it should be at least five inches in
    diameter. A half-gallon cardboard milk carton might work,
    with clever modifications.


    2- In a large pot, bring two or three quarts of water to
    full boil. Add a tablespoon of vegetable oil and a pinch of
    salt. Boil spaghetti to aldente texture (about 8 minutes).
    Any pasta will do, but I find spaghetti and fettucini most
    satisfactory.


    3- Drain spaghetti, but do not rinse. Mix in A FEW DROPS of
    vegetable oil (be CAREFUL not to use too much; use just
    enough to keep the spaghetti from sticking together) and
    stir well. Set aside in colander until cool enough to handle.


    4- While spaghetti is cooling, melt some butter (not much; about
    1/3 of one of those little butter pats you get with toast in
    a diner is enough). Don't let it boil; 15-30 seconds in the
    microwave should do it.


    5- Stuff spaghetti into the container described in Step 1.
    Really pack it in tightly; as tight as you can cram it in.
    This is crucial to success. I use wooden cooking implements
    to tamp it down. When the jar is about 3/4 full, bore a hole
    down the center with something long and moderately thin (I
    use the long handle of a wooden stirring spoon) and continue
    packing spaghetti around it, up the brim. Remember to pack
    tightly; spaghetti will compress a lot more than you'd think.


    6- At this point, remove the rod or dowel or whatever, and
    pour a SMALL amount of melted butter down into the little
    hole to lubricate it. (By the way, I've found that butter or
    margarine feels much more like the creamy inside of an
    aroused cunt than any kind of oil; and I've tried quite a
    few). Stick your finger in and work the lubrication down
    into the little hole. Feels interesting, doesn't it? Close
    your eyes and probe, slowly; does that feel just EXACTLY
    like a wet pussy hole, or what?


    7- Now, use something wider and slightly tapered to widen the
    mouth of the surrogate vagina (I use the neck of a wine or
    beer bottle). Do this gently, and don't widen it to your
    full dick diameter; you want it to be nice and tight.


    8- Cut a generous length of Saran Wrap and stretch it tightly
    over the mouth of the jar. Fasten it tightly with the
    rubber band. Now punch a hole in the Saran Wrap in the
    obvious place. (Use a pencil, or a spoon handle, not a
    knife; a sharp cut will make the Saran Wrap tear.)



    HOW TO USE:


    1- Pile two or more big, thick sofa cushions on top of each
    other. Make an identical pile next to the first, leaving a
    12-inch space between the two piles.


    2- In the space between the cushions, spread a towel (or
    newspaper) on the floor. If properly constructed, your
    PseudoCunt should not make a mess unless you really get
    carried away, but it's a good idea to protect against this
    possibility.


    3- Position the PseudoCunt jar on the floor between the two
    cushion piles.


    4- Lie across the cushion piles, chest on one, thighs on the
    other, dick dangling in the space between. Now, gaze lovingly
    at whatever fantasy object you prefer, tease the head of your
    dick against the warm, slick mouth and begin fucking.



    HINTS AND TECHNIQUES:


    * Before you get started, check with your finger to make
    sure your PseudoCunt has cooled to the proper temperature.
    You don't want to burn yourself. Optimum temperature should
    be obvious if you're a reasonably sexually active person.
    Push your finger in as deeply as you can; the bottom of the
    jar may be too hot even though the mouth is a nice, warm,
    cuntlike temperature.


    * The PseudoCunt is not recommended for quickies. Choose a
    time when you're absolutely certain you'll be alone and
    undisturbed. PseudoCunt takes some time to prepare, and a
    fair amount of what's called in cinema and theater circles
    'suspension of disbelief.' It can't be fully enjoyed if
    you're worried about your wife or girlfriend walking in and
    finding you fucking a jar of spaghetti.


    * Size of the container is important. Make sure it is at
    least two inches deeper than your dick is long, and wide
    enough so that your dick is surrounded by a generous cushion
    of pseudo cuntflesh. You don't want to bang up against the
    hard sides or bottom of the thing at a crucial moment.


    * Shape of the container is important, too. I like the jumbo
    jar configuration because the "shoulders" of the jar where
    the neck narrows help to keep the spaghetti in place when
    you withdraw on the out-strokes.


    * Don't use too much butter. A very small amount should suffice.
    Remember that your own secretions will increase the lubricating
    effect. It's not generally recognized that grease and oils
    actually DE-sensitize erectile tissue. A thin coat of oil on
    your dick is like wearing a condom. I find that the absolutely
    perfect effect is achieved by adding just a *tiny* amount of
    butter, then slathering saliva all over my dick just before
    first penetration. The combination of butter, saliva and natural
    lubrication that leaks from your dick feels closer to authentic
    vagina arousal than any oil I've ever tried.


    * Make adequate preparations. Arrange your favorite magazines
    on the floor in front of you, or display a particularly
    fascinating GIF, or make sure the VCR is cued up and the
    remote is handy. One of the real joys of using PseudoCunt is
    that it leaves both hands free to work the VCR remote or
    languidly browse through magazines, savoring the tight cunt
    sucking wetly at your dick with each slight movement of your
    hips. With careful preparation it's a damned comfortable
    position, and you can just lie there for as long as you please,
    indulging as many fantasies as your self-control will allow.


    * For best results, fuck slowly and gently on first
    penetration. This allows the PseudoCunt hole to adjust to
    the proper diameter.


    * Don't ram your dick in to the bottom at first. Go slowly,
    and try to restrain yourself as long as possible, fucking a
    just a little deeper at a time. Each time you stroke a
    little deeper, the PseudoCunt is a little tighter, and
    incrementally warmer. The sensation is fabulous if prolonged.
    I like to keep the last inch or so unpenetrated until I'm
    just at the point of cumming, then grunt and howl and plunge
    to the bottom and blast my sperm into the tight warmth deep
    down inside.


    * Sound effects, if authentic, can really heighten the effect.
    Porn videos just don't do it for me. Too contrived. I have a
    few audio tapes that do, though, and once in a while I'll put
    on the headphones while fucking my Pseudocunt. One is a tape
    I made by concealing the microphone in the headboard of the
    bed before fucking my wife doggy-style (you should consider
    trying this; it's incredibly arousing to hear the rutting
    grunts and screams of a woman you know). The rest are
    recordings of phone-sex conversations with two former
    girlfriends -- one in particular, whose panting and gasping
    and whimpering as she masturbates is truly phenomenal.


    * Shed all inhibitions. Admit to yourself that, while this may
    seem truly bizarre behavior, it feels incredibly good. Get
    hedonistic. Get totally naked. Or wear leather, or panties
    and a bra, or clothespins on your scrotum, whatever makes your
    dick throb and ooze.



    TROUBLESHOOTING


    If you experience problems with your PseudoCunt, the fault most
    likely lies in your choice of materials, or lack of attention to
    proper construction techniques.


    Commonly experienced problems usually have simple solutions:



    Too hot for comfort


    If too hot, allow to cool at room temperature. Don't get
    impatient and put it in the freezer, or outside in a
    snowbank. If it cools unevenly, you're in for a very
    unpleasant surprise.



    Not warm enough


    If too cool, place jar in a pan of water on the stove and
    simmer for at least 30 minutes. To spread heat more evenly,
    make sure the water covers at least 2/3 of the jar, and
    place a wire rack beneath the jar to raise it off the bottom
    of the pan. If a glass jar is used, you can heat it in a
    microwave oven for a minute or so. [This procedure is not
    recommended if using a waxed cardboard milk carton.]


    These heating techniques, by the way, are handy for repeated
    use of your PseudoCunt between washings, unless you're too
    squeamish for sloppy seconds.


    It's also occurred to me that a hair dryer might be a quick
    alternative, but I haven't tried this. I'm not sure I could
    maintain a hardon or a straight face kneeling there naked
    and blow-drying a jar of spaghetti.



    Bits of greasy spaghetti cling to your dick on withdrawal


    This is normal. While the problem cannot be eliminated
    entirely, the effect can be minimized by several means:


    1- Make sure spaghetti is packed in VERY tightly.


    2- Use a high-shouldered jar (see above) to help keep
    the spaghetti in place on the out strokes.


    3- Make sure hole in Saran Wrap is not too large.
    Punch, do not cut, this hole to prevent tearing.



    PseudoCunt makes distracting slurping noises


    You used too much butter, or oil, or both. Or you've gang-
    banged your PseudoCunt one too many times and you need to
    clean it out and start over again at Step 2.


    Of course, if you want to fantasize about oral sex, this
    could be regarded as a design feature rather than a problem.



    Greasy stains on sofa cushions


    My wife responds to greasy stains on upholstery by
    immediately dumping a big pile of talcum powder on the
    spill, letting it sit for a while, vacuuming it off later,
    then calling in a professional furniture cleaner to finish
    the job.
    I try to avoid stains by making sure the Saran Wrap is
    tightly secured with the rubber band, and by spreading a
    towel over the leading edge of the sofa cushion pile. I'd
    rather not have to explain PseudoCunt stains to my wife.



    Fetid stench



    Throw away the spaghetti and wash the damn thing. Unless
    mold and bacteria growth play an essential role in your
    sexual fantasies, repeated use of the PseudoCunt is not
    recommended beyond, say, 24 hours. Refrigerate after use.



    WHY I CREATED PSEUDOCUNT


    No, I'm not a social outcast or a phobic recluse. I have a
    normal sex life (pretty fabulous, actually) so I should
    explain why I continued to experiment with masturbation
    techniques in adulthood, long after abandoning the clumsy
    remedies most teens invent to draw off excess spunk.
    One reason is simply that I'm a very sensuous person with a
    vivid imagination. I've found that I can occasionally attain
    amazing heights of sexual arousal when I masturbate. At the
    risk of sounding immodest, I've induced some of the best
    orgasms I've ever had.
    Another reason is that I am aware of absolutely no physical
    or psychological reasons not to masturbate, and can't help
    wondering if the world might not be a better place if more
    people did. Whether they use fists or balloons or spaghetti.


    Finally, it provides a fabulous way to indulge certain sexual
    fantasies that just can't be shared no matter how skilled and
    understanding one's lover may be. Know what I mean?
    If you're inclined to give this thing a try, I hope it
    enhances your own secret fantasies as much as it does mine.
    If you have a technique of your own, write it up and post it
    for others to share. If you find the whole concept disgusting,
    why did you read this far?

    --

    C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
    1. Re:Egg Trolls Fake Pussy Technique by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      Bravo
      I can vouch for this technique it works great.
      I hope Egg Troll can bring us more informative
      article in the future.
      This really is news for nerds.

  32. kpf - web server applet: please don't by knarf · · Score: 1

    Uh-Oh,

    From the planned feature list:

    * kpf - web server applet, designed for sharing files

    That does not sound like a wise thing to do, implementing webserver functionality into a desktop applet. That's what we've got daemons for, right? Small, self-contained, functional and modular. With the added bonus that the webserver keeps on running when the user logs out.

    If you really want to share some files on your box through the desktop, there's lots of P2P apps/'platforms' out there which make this possible. Jabber comes to mind, or JXTA, or... even a 'personal Apache controller applet' for all I care.
    But a webserver *in* the applet... Nein Danke...

    --
    --frank[at]unternet.org
    1. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 2

      It sounds like a fine thing to do, to me. Why would a user want their files shared while they were logged out? KDE is meant for desktop systems, not file-servers. Most users turn off their computer while they're not logged in. I like the idea of an easy-to-use filesharing mechanism that works over the Internet integrated with the desktop, it is something MS hasn't done yet but is really logical.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    2. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by mindstrm · · Score: 2

      Well.. I beg to differ.
      If you are speaking of the average techie.. sure, go use another piece of software.

      To a windows convert, being able to select a file/folder and hit 'share' would be great.

    3. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You write 2 paragraphs of self-grandizing dribble based on 1 line (8 words) of text. Now who's the dumbfuck?

    4. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by knarf · · Score: 1

      It is not the functionality (sharing files) which I dispute, but the place where it is to be implemented (in a desktop applet, as far as I can tell from the TODO-list). From a security standpoint it does not seem to be the best place to implement this functionality. KDE is huge, and has - as far as I know - not been subject of a rigorous check for the usual security-related problems (buffer overflows, etc). This webserver applet would use the KDE framework to serve files to the outside, so it would have to sit there listening on some TCP port. Now what if (and that's probably not an 'if' at all...) there's some exploitable problem in one of the libraries? And this applet is installed on all those KDE desktops which are popping up everywhere thanks to the huge success of free software and the downfall of the evil empire and such?

      We'd have the same problems as 'they' have today.

      Oh, and for those of you who think I'm disparaging KDE, that's not the case. Replace 'KDE' with 'GNOME' or 'CDE' or 'XFCE' or whichever big(gish) desktop environment you care to name, the same would hold true.

      --
      --frank[at]unternet.org
    5. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by knarf · · Score: 1

      Uh... If those files the user shares are 'important' to collegues/friends/whoever, why would they only want to share them while logged in? Also, in many workplaces workstations are shared between many people, or used by many people ('flexible office' and such...), so the mere fact that the user is not logged in on a certain machine does not mean she does not want/need to share those files.

      The filesharing functionality in itself can be handy, but the place to implement this is not in a desktop applet. A controller for the 'server', sure, put that in an applet. But the server itself is better implemented as a small, self-contained daemon. This makes it much easier to audit it for security problems, and actually fix those problems.

      --
      --frank[at]unternet.org
    6. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So Microsoft throws in IIS, and it's a huge security hole. KDE does it, and it's a 'fine thing to do.'

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    7. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ya, this kpf sounds pretty idiotic to me, too if it *really is* a web server...but it could easily just be a front end to one.

      I hate this trend in apps (KDE is not the only guilty party) -- daemons should not be *tied* to GUIs.

    8. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about "idiotic" in both cases?

      Now, if KDE had a mini applet to copy files to an Apache-shared directory, with a top-notch KDE front end to Apache, things might be different.

    9. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Libor+Vanek · · Score: 1

      That's something COMPLETELY different! IIS is intented to be MS "flagship" as the Internet server. File sharing is (probably) intented to be easy to use for BFU's which just wants to share files simply.

      This I think is really great and can help to spread Linux and KDE between more users. Another thing would be if this option will be by default on and will have security troubles.

    10. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ya. "User logged in" should not be forceably tied to "User can share files". That would make a nice *option*, but an architecture that requires this is just broken.

      The only reason that people keep tying "logged in" to "able to perform daemon tasks" is because the alternative to "logged in" on MacOS and Win3.1 was having the computer off, and on the 9x line of Windows being logged out basically meant that nothing of yours could be running.

      Making design decisions based on old and flawed UI decisions is wrong.

      Of course, making lame design decisions based on what MS did would be nothing new for the KDE team...some of the stuff they've done has no purpose other than to appeal to Windows users.

    11. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by znu · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mac OS X has a web sharing feature, but it simply fires up Apache (with some nice reasonable defaults). That's probably the best approach.

      --
      This space unintentionally left unblank.
    12. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm the author of kpf.

      It's not supposed to be a fully-fledged webserver. As the comment says, it's designed for sharing files (e.g. with people you are chatting to on IRC.) It just happens to speak HTTP, because firstly that makes it easy to grab files (kfmclient copy http://some.server/some.file file:/tmp/, or wget if you fancy) and the HTTP protocol is a lot simpler to implement than e.g. FTP.

      Simplicity of implementation was a major factor in choosing a protocol because kpf must be secure. The less code, the easier to audit.

      Note also that the 'real' web servers are not easy to monitor and control in realtime. Because kpf runs as a panel applet, you can watch the connections and the traffic, and even kill off connections if you don't like what they're doing.

      You would be surprised how much traffic kpf can handle without threads, subprocesses, etc. - and running within the same process as kicker - all without slowing down kicker.

      The home page is here if you'd like to take a look at the current version (which is for KDE 2.x)

      Rik
    13. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the server itself is better implemented as a small, self-contained daemon. This makes it much easier to audit it for security problems, and actually fix those problems.



      Perhaps you would like to put your money where your
      mouth is ? Point out the holes in the kpf code. I would
      be very interested to hear of any.




      Rik


    14. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's also a world of difference between a full-bugged (sorry, 'featured') webserver, that does ISAPI, ASP, and whatever crap they send at it, and a simpleton that sends static HTTP requests.

      But this is slashdot...

    15. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Of course, making lame design decisions based on what MS did would be nothing new for the KDE team...some of the stuff they've done has no purpose other than to appeal to Windows users.

      Actually, kpf was designed to be a lot like a file sharing utility for BeOS. I don't have Windows, and I don't know about their file sharing stuff. I was told about the BeOS utility by someone else, who requested features for kpf. I think you'll find that KDE is not designed to appeal to Windows users - it's more designed to appeal to what our users ask for. There's a difference.

      Rik

    16. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2
      That's something COMPLETELY different!
      Thanks for making my point so succintly.
      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    17. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by rikkus-x · · Score: 1

      So now I have a slashdot user id. I didn't want one, but
      perhaps this will mean I get to respond to ignorant posts
      about my software. See parent.

      Rik

    18. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      also, don't forget that your mom *should* be tied to the bed cause she's into bondage

    19. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well I for one as a KDE user appreciate your efforts. In case you have realized by now, most /. postings consist of people shitting all over anything and everything, just to hear themselves type.

    20. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by John+Allsup · · Score: 1
      Whats needed is a better internet infrastructure in the underlying operating system. There is currently nowhere an app can simply say 'share this with these permissions, etc. etc.' and have the requested data immediately available.

      Let's face it. At current, we're barely at the point of dynamically configurable webservers. What is needed is a single, uniform way of informing the system of network related requests and letting it carry them out.

      In pseudocode, one should be able to say

      network.shareDirectory(
      Directory => "$HOME/export/hello",
      Protocol => SMB,
      ShareName => "hello/world"
      )

      to make the directory '$HOME/export/hello' available
      at '\\MyComputer\hello\world'

      OR


      network.shareDirectory(
      Directory => "$HOME/export/hello",
      Protocol => HTTP,
      ShareName => "hello/world"
      )

      to make it available at 'http://MyComputer/hello/world' etc.

      Obviously extra stuff needs to be given at runtime, but you get the idea. This is something that needs to be given serious thought. What can be done? (the reasoning behind this should be obvious: you shouldn't have to learn everything over again when moving from, say, apache to Roxen to wuftpd to samba to whatever next...)
      --
      John_Chalisque
    21. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by platypus · · Score: 2

      Hi Rik,

      do you plan to implement webdav and do you know if there's a corresponding client for kde? Can konqui handle it?

    22. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by rikkus-x · · Score: 1

      No, sorry, kpf is read-only for security.

      I don't have the time or enough experience to
      allow writing - that would require much more code
      and much more auditing.

      I think I heard of a kio_webdav, but I don't know
      if it ever saw light. Check google :)

      Rik

    23. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by rikkus-x · · Score: 1
      Let's face it. At current, we're barely at the point of dynamically configurable webservers. What is needed is a single, uniform way of informing the system of network related requests and letting it carry them out.

      How's this ?

      dcop kpf createServer /some/export 8080 4000 10 false

      That creates a new server serving files from /some/export, listening on port 8080, with a 4k/s bandwidth limit, a limit of 10 concurrent clients, and disallowing following of symbolic links.

      There are other useful DCOP calls you can make too, here's the rest of them: disableServer, restartServer, reconfigureServer, pauseServer, unpauseServer, serverPaused.

      Of course, you can do all these things with the applet's config dialog or by right-clicking on one of the server graphs. You can also play with the settings by using the directory properties dialog in konqy, which has an extra tab when you install kpf (only in 0.4.2, the unstable version, currently.)

      Rik

    24. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by rikkus-x · · Score: 1

      The KDE libraries are by design quite safe. You don't have the buffer overflow problems that you have in C. Please, if you would like to allege that my code is compromisable, have a look at the last stable release (0.4) of kpf and see if you can tell me where. Until you can prove that kpf is insecure, you are merely spreading FUD. Rik

    25. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by rikkus-x · · Score: 1

      Why should daemons not be tied to GUIs ?

      Apart from the obvious - they stop when you
      log out. But this is a file sharing utility,
      not a CGI-running multiple-process-spawning
      web server.

      Rik

    26. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Vann_v2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it does make your point if you ignore his justifications.

    27. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      Exactly; on Linux, it's 'justified' to have a web server running for no good reason. On Microsoft it's 'inexcusable' and 'stupid.' Want to share files on UNIX? NFS. Samba. FTP. Want to do it automatically? Then screw Morpheous, I'll just troll the @home subnets for open kpf shares.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    28. Re: kpf - web server applet: please don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      kpf is IIS as gnutella is to IIS

  33. Why offtopic? by mangu · · Score: 1, Offtopic
    At the time I post this, the parent is moderated (-1, offtopic).


    WHY?


    It's about KDE. Absolutely ON topic...


    I post this using my own nick because I'm stuck at +50 and need someone to mod me down...

    1. Re:Why offtopic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it wasn't, it was about how much GNOME sucks, which is off-topic. I am not a cowboy.

  34. Yeah, yeah.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Umm-hmm...okay, yeah....Macintosh had all that TEN YEARS AGO.

    So you've finally gotten around to stealing in have you? Just like you WinTel weenies have stolen everything else innovative from Apple.

    Try MacOSX sometime if you want to see what a MODERN GUI/Unix looks like.

    MacOSX -- the most popular, important and innovative UNIX there ever was, is and ever shall be. Apple defines UNIX now. Bwahaahahaha!

    1. Re:Yeah, yeah.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, first of all let's establish that legacy MacOS *did* kick ass, and was probably the most innovative OS ever (real innovation, not MS's "innovation").

      However, legacy MacOS is *old*, and isn't really competitive any more.

      And MacOS X is a totally different OS. It has cool bits, but I and a lot of other people don't think that it's anywhere near as good today as legacy MacOS was when it came out. It doesn't have the same feel of perfection, that things just operated "as they should".

      That aside, you're just plain wrong. In '91, MacOS did *not* have a standard API for database access (as a matter of fact, probably due to business roots, MS was ahead of Apple here). Unless you're talking about specialized stuff like Hypercard, you didn't have data-aware widgets (which, IMHO, are fucking stupid). Apple *never* put out a full application RAD kit (Hypercard was not for general-purpose programs). MPW was as far from RAD as you could get. Apple definitely never did regular expressions. Apple *did* do quite a bit of internationalization work, but I don't believe Apple did Unicode back then (Heck, I don't know if Unicode *existed* back then), since I remember Unicode support being a big feature of one of their OS attempts (probably Taligent). The MacOS didn't *natively* support Bidirectional language support (you needed language kits).

      Multimonitor support was there, if not in '91, sometime around there. You are correct that the MacOS kicked all other consumer OS butt in terms of multimonitor support, and still does (Win2k multimonitor support is pathetic, and Xinerama does *not* cut it).

      Apple did *not* do hardware accelerated alpha blending in '91.

      Finally, Apple did not have native http support in '91. As a matter of fact, they were well behind MS (which used IE) in terms of http support when they *did* start worrying about http. They *did* come out with some sort of shared library (the name escapes me...I think it was something like Ripsaw) for developers at one point that did HTTP work, but never brought it out of beta.

  35. Flamebait by SilentChris · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    "as-unstable-as-windows dept."

    But not as pretty.

    +1 Flamebait

    1. Re:Flamebait by Comic+Book+Guy+1 · · Score: 0

      You need your eyes examined if you think m$ windows is pretty.

    2. Re:Flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, KDE really is fucking ugly, I wish they could get some (better) graphic designers.

    3. Re:Flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      I think you need your cum drentched ass hole examined.
      Your gonna end up with an anal fissure if you keep letting taco fuck you like that.

    4. Re:Flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like Gnome perhaps ...

      http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/OpenOffic e. jpeg

      add some SVG boys, KDE is starting to look butt-ugly:

      http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/e-sync.jp eg

      GNOME -- it does more than just look better.

    5. Re:Flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My opinion: it isn't the whole interface, but rather just the KDE icons and symbols that suck. KDE icons look really awful compared to their GNOME equivalents. The GNOME people went out on a limb with an offbeat organic look, and it really worked well.

      There really needs to be some kind of a KDE icon improvement project with real artists working on them.

    6. Re:Flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG, wtf are you smoking? this is what most people say:

      GNOME icons=dark and blurry, and unclear what the symbol has in relation to what it does.

      KDE icons=____CLEAR____ symbols and pictures that truly represent what a Icon does.

      Go read some usability texts, ya dumbfuck

    7. Re:Flamebait by fault0 · · Score: 1

      > http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/OpenOffice. jpeg

      How about KOffice, it is a more pleasant to work with than OpenOffice, and does not take the route of Microsoft's add-features-that-1%-of-the-population-uses way of developing Microsoft Office. Also, it actually features integration with the underlying desktop, unlike OpenOffice.

      > add some SVG boys, KDE is starting to look butt-ugly:
      > http://jimmac.musichall.cz/screenshots/e-sync.jpeg

      KDE already has SVG support in two different implementations. KDE's own and Qt's.

      Also, I have yet to see transcluesent menus like in KDE:
      http://www.mosfet.org/hpl1.png

      KDE -- the desktop that doesn't have to continuously play catchup

    8. Re:Flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Not the original poster here,

      Well, that was certainly vague. I don't like KDE icons, not one bit. But lets get some detail into the argument please? Cut n' paste from a previous post of mine:

      Any talk of icons hinges on first impressions and whether it's intuitive - so please take this only as 'first reactions'

      This KDE 2.0 screenshot [kde.org]. Notice the styled paper that is never white but instead has an orange smear. Notice the 'home' icon and how the door is shiny as if protruding from the house (!). Notice the green and black reload icon as if part of the icon does something differently (like the forward/back buttons). Notice how everything is shiny and plastic.

      Next this KDE2.0 screenshot [kde.org] where in one window a magnify glass is used to show "search" (or something) and in the window right below a magnify glass is used to enlarge font size.

      Another bizzare screenshot [kde.org] showing icons to the quality of MS Paint. Notice the multiple selection icons placed alongside others. Notice 'getmoz' with its monitor the length of a desktop machine. Notice a metal trashcan that's apparently on fire. Notice the 'write allowed' icon overlay that dissapears into the ether at the icon's edges (while obscuring icon information).

      Notice that KDEs icons aren't anti-photo-realistic charactatures of functions but inconsistant pointlessly-shiny obscure... icons.

    9. Re:Flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about KOffice,

      Yeah, how about KOffice. It's a bunch of pretty screenshots with sod all functionality. KWord, for example, is about the level Wordpad in Windows. Comparing it to Star/Open Office is a bad joke.

      And anyone doubting this is free to check out both of course. Don't believe the drivel spouted by KDE witless noisy advocates, check for yourself.

    10. Re:Flamebait by fault0 · · Score: 1

      Actually, kword copies a better app than starwriter does. Starwriter copies Microsoft Word, a not-so-versitile program that has thousands of useless features which hardly anyone uses and which contribute to overall bloat. kword copies Adobe Framemaker, a very versitile frame based program that can pass of as either a word processor or a professional desktop publishing program. It has features which 99% of the population needs or could ever want. Comparing kword and starwriter is a bad joke. the only thing that kword lacks is more export filters. with them, it'd be perfect, imho.

    11. Re:Flamebait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      features which hardly anyone uses and which contribute to overall bloat

      Huh... you mean useless bloated features like footers (which no-one ever uses), and which KWord doesn't support. And besides, there's also the spreadsheet... which is a grotesque joke in KOffice.

      You KDE idiots are all mouth and no trousers - and people are starting to realise this. Slapping a pretty face on a piece of crapware just doesn't cut it these days - it only fools zealous fucktards. Even Microsoft knows that the software must *DO SOMETHING*, even if it does it badly and crashes a lot.

      Fuck off, clown.

  36. hardware-accelerated alpha blending?! by Adnans · · Score: 2

    "and hardware-accelerated alpha blending"

    buzzword or actually implemented in the new KDE/Qt? Alpha blending IMHO increases elegance (not to be confused with usability) of an interface when used properly. Any KDE developer(s) care to explain how and what this actually means? e.g. Render calls, which components use this, etc?

    Thanks,
    -adnans

    --
    "In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
    1. Re:hardware-accelerated alpha blending?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      Fuck You.

    2. Re:hardware-accelerated alpha blending?! by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 4, Informative
      The new QT has support for alpha-blending through the X Render extension. This means:

      Better (full) PNG transparency support in the browser
      Alpha-blending for all icons everywhere to reduce jagged edges (especially for small icons)
      Neat eyecandy effects

      What I'm interested in is what happens when Render isn't available? Do all those effects go away cleanly, or do they stay there using slow software emulation?

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    3. Re:hardware-accelerated alpha blending?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does that mean it could be possible to have a truely transparent terminal?

    4. Re:hardware-accelerated alpha blending?! by mabinogi · · Score: 1

      Probably not.....if the way I understand it is correct, then the Render extension just provides a way to get hardware accelerated alpha blending.

      To optain a truely transparent terminal, when an area of desktop, or a window changed it's contents, X would have to repaint all the windows above that area or window, which previously would have been something that X deliberately would not have done (since it would have been pointless).

      I don't think that the render extension changes anything fundamental about X, just provides an extension that applications can use to speed up certain things.

      Though I could be wrong, since I have not really read much about it.

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    5. Re:hardware-accelerated alpha blending?! by hexix · · Score: 1

      I think it actually is possible with the render extension. If you check out keith packard's page that tells about it he has a screenshot of a hacked FVWM where the menus are translucent. check it out here.

      Of course maybe it isn't possible, I would have thought the Eterm developers or someone would have made a terminal program to use this ability already.

    6. Re:hardware-accelerated alpha blending?! by JabberWokky · · Score: 2

      Does that mean it could be possible to have a truely transparent terminal?

      Yup - see the bottom of this page. Now, I *am* curious as to how fast this is in a real world system. And knowing how KDE works right now, it will porobably be easy to turn on and off (like current font and icon antialiasing), both explictly, and in a warm, fuzzy "Quality slider".

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    7. Re:hardware-accelerated alpha blending?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's so difficult to understand about the words 'true transparency'?

      What the XRender does, is FAKE transparency if you ask me.

      Yes, the window will shine through, very pretty, but open a transparent menu over your xchat (just as you can see at the bottom screenshot of the keithp's render website), and the area where the menu hovers over the xchat window will NOT be updated! This leaves a VERY ugly and undesired effect, especially if it would have been eterms instead of silly menu's.

      The reason we want translucency, or I at least, is so I can still see what's going on in my windows that lie underneath my terminal (Eterm).

    8. Re:hardware-accelerated alpha blending?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What's so difficult to understand about the words 'true transparency'?


      Fuck you. The guy is nice enough to try to answer your question and you give him attitude. You're arrogant even by /. standards.

  37. mod up! must read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    wow. That explains a lot. All along, I thought hemos and cmdr taco were gay. Turns out they're just muslims!

  38. Yeh we rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    developers developers developers developers

  39. intrested in C bindings by johnjones · · Score: 2

    they state that they will have C bindings

    well that's new I wonder if they are going to anything like GTK C bindings ?

    and I think that a web server applet is a bad idea
    (although implemeting a control function for apache DAV would be good)

    and the really good news is
    Remapping/Naming of Modifier Keys: emulation of traditional Mac keyboard, where Ctrl is called "Command", Meta "Alt", and Alt "Apple", and "Apple" has the function of Ctrl. Let Meta be called "Win" for MS Windows users. Let a user without a Meta key easily select another modifier (e.g. CTRL_R) to act as Meta.

    that is a blessing, I hope that others follow the example and provide an alternitive mapping
    (RISCOS had it like this and I got on well with it, same as the mac I use)

    regards

    john jones

    1. Re:intrested in C bindings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      Fuck you.

    2. Re:intrested in C bindings by Arandir · · Score: 2

      Please, oh please, don't call the meta key "Win"! Just because my keyboard has three keys with funny symbols on them, don't assume that I am a MS Windows users. I mean really! If I were a Windows user, I wouldn't be using KDE now, would I!

      There should be an explanation somewhere that the key on most PC keyboards with the MS logo is the "alt" key. That goes without saying. But don't rename it!

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
    3. Re:intrested in C bindings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, fucktard, the windows keys has an entirely different code than the alt key. Wtf?

    4. Re:intrested in C bindings by Arandir · · Score: 2

      I'll dispute the label of "fucktard", but I will admit to needing a WYMIWYT(*) interface to Slashdot.

      (*) "What You Mean is What You Type"

      --
      A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
  40. Gnome User by Picass0 · · Score: 2

    I'm currious from anyone who has used Gnome and switched to KDE: what do you think the advantages are? I'm open minded enough to consider KDE, but want to know what people feel is better. (Please be more specific than Gnome sucks. That's not going to sway me very much.)

    Also, anyone reading this who has left KDE for Gnome tell me what made you switch.

    I've always thought this Gnome vs. KDE thing was about as dumb as vi vs. emacs.

    1. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait
      Basically, KDE delivers what is promised, Gnome does not.


      KDE developers code, Gnome developers suck RMS's dick, and spout GNU mantra.

    2. Re:Gnome User by reverius · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I switched from KDE to Gnome. The primary reason was an easy one... the latest GNOME is available (through Ximian) for Debian Stable (aka Potato, aka 2.2)... but the latest KDE is a bit harder to do.

      When I tried KDE 2.1 on this box, it seemed kinda sluggish. KDE 2.2 is a lot faster, but it ain't gonna run on Debian 2.2.

      A big plus for me as well is the customizability (albeit mostly hidden) of gnome. I can completely remove the desktop icons (and Nautilus itself ;)) and save on system resources. I can make my whole user interface look exactly like MacOS 8 (which I do). So I use Gnome instead of KDE.

      If Debian 2.3 (Woody) would come out soon, I'd be glad to try KDE 2.2 on it, and maybe stick with it. :)

    3. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      fuck you

    4. Re:Gnome User by slashdot2.2sucks · · Score: 1

      I don't use either Gnome or KDE, because I like just a nice WM like E or WindowMaker so I feel my opinion is probably not very biased.

      After Gnome became stable (1.X) I tried both Gnome and KDE and found that KDE was like vanilla MacOS and seemed to lack the amount of neat features that Gnome had. But I still didn't use Gnome because it was too slow on my machine.

      I just recently used both and I have to say that I think the roles have reversed. The newest KDE is very sexy with good use of anti-aliasing and alpha. KDE seems to have gone the OSX route but with a more mature look.

      I would say that I think the latest KDE is even better than OSX, but I am biased in that I think that the Aqua theme is ass candy fugly.

    5. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Why is the vi v.s. emacs debate stupid? It's a huge difference in the way that you work with your computer (at least if you're using emacs for everything, as you should :-) ). I'd call it as valid as a debate over whatever national policy Bush is churning out right now.

    6. Re:Gnome User by jonathan_ingram · · Score: 3, Informative

      Back when it was KDE 1 vs Gnome 1.2, I used Gnome... or bits of it. For ages I used Sawfish on its own, back when it was called Sawmill and wasn't the Gnome default window manager. I always hated GMC, and didn't use the panel much... so my use of Gnome was mostly restricted to the applications, and most of those (Gimp, XChat, ...) were GTK+ rather than Gnome.

      Once KDE 2 came out, I found myself using Konqueror more and more, plus Konsole, mostly because of the tabbed MDI interface it has (which is wonderful). From there it was a small step to actually running the whole KDE desktop -- I even got used to the KDE window manager, although it still feels a bit clunky in comparison to Sawfish (I see that KDE 3 will have active desktop borders back again though, which is wonderful).

      Of course, I can still run all the same GTK+ applications I used to use, and they work just as well. Kate, Konsole and Konqueror are the killer apps for KDE, plus the way it all feels much more integrated together than Gnome does (although it has the better individual applications).

      I've always thought this Gnome vs. KDE thing was about as dumb as vi vs. emacs.

      And it'll keep on going just as long as vi vs. emacs...

    7. Re:Gnome User by nusuth · · Score: 1

      I prefer KDE but I'm not really a convert. I installed both for a time until I decided KDE was better and I had no use for gnome. As for why I think KDE is better, I can't really give concrete reasons. The looks are worse, localization is better, customizability is a bit better, default terminal is better, default browser is better, rpm manager is worse...but no real big differences between the two. I'll install KDE at work for the simple reason that its office suit and desktop can be configured to look quite like windows, to which folks at my company are used to.

      --

      Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

    8. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a RedHat user, and so I used Gnome when I got RedHat 6.0, which included an early release of Gnome. It crashed, froze, and was basically betaware. So I used KDE, which was somewhere in the 1.x series at the time. It was stable, and I was happy. I understand that Gnome is stable now (and is thus no longer at a disadvantage), but the problem is that Gnome needs a distinct advantage over KDE before I'll switch BACK, and right now I don't see one.

    9. Re:Gnome User by hexix · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well I use both, usually GNOME more often as I like the look I can achieve with it and pretty much all my favorite programs are gtk+ based, so it's nice having the same look for everything.

      But the reason I think a lot of people like KDE is because of the level of integration everything has. It truly is a Desktop Environment, whereas GNOME at this point has more of a "most of the programs look similar" feel to it. Very little seems to be in place for the programs to talk to eachother and work the same from application to application.

      For example, in KDE2 every program that opens files (to the best of my knowledge) uses KIO (I'm guessing that stands for KDE Input Outout) and this makes it so you can open and save files from/to anything KIO supports. For example, you can open a file in a KDE text editing program by giving a http url like http://slashdot.org/ (that should give you the source code for slashdot's main page in HTML) then you could then save that file to some ftp site, just by putting ftp://blah.com/incoming/file.html in the save dialog.

      That level of integration is all over KDE2 and it really makes for a great experience. There is tons of other stuff too, like how konqueror embeds components so it can display many types of files. In fact, if I'm not wrong, the koffice office suite is made up of components so I think you can view kword files in konqueror without really launching the kword application, just embeds it into konqueror's window.

      Lots of other stuff to explore in KDE. For me though I just like the look and feel of GNOME. And I think all those nifty things in KDE give it a lot more stuff that can break (and from my experience it tends to do just that). Of course I could just have bad luck with it, I dunno.

    10. Re:Gnome User by egg+troll · · Score: -1

      Gnome sucks. So does emacs.

      --

      C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
    11. Re:Gnome User by fault0 · · Score: 3, Informative

      What I've used:

      KDE 1.0 vs. Nothing: KDE 1.0
      KDE 1.1 vs. Nothing: KDE 1.0
      KDE 1.2 vs. GNOME 1.0: KDE 1.2
      KDE 1.2 vs. GNOME 1.2: GNOME 1.2
      KDE 2.0 vs. GNOME 1.2: both (but more GNOME 1.2)
      KDE 2.1 vs. GNOME 1.2: KDE 2.1
      KDE 2.2 vs. GNOME 1.4: KDE 2.2
      KDE 3.0 vs. GNOME 2.0: I probably will use KDE 3.0

      Frankly speaking, both DE's are good, but I like KDE better since 2.0. Right now, I prefer KDE a lot more than GNOME. It's more mature, more stable, and has more features that I want and need. The only downside I can think of with KDE was the lack of eye candy and customizability. But, KDE 2.1 and KDE 2.2 really seemed to fill in the gap. KDE 2.2's panel is about as customizable as GNOME 1.4's panel. The theme support is about the same (although there is nothing like the KDE Liquid theme, with transparent menus, shadowed text, and strippled window backgrounds for GNOME). I think that the rest of the "look" aspect is better for KDE. It has builtin antialiasing (gdkxft for GNOME doesn't work for everything). I also like the alpha transparent icons in KDE. I think KDE 3.0 will really shine because of the builtin xrender support in Qt. This should allow stuff like truly transparent terminals and windows :).

      KDE also seems to be faster in some areas (Konq. vs. Nautilus, for example). Most of the rest of speed is about the same (provided kde uses objprelink). Application support is about the same.

      I think that the biggest thing going for KDE is probably that it is a lot more intregrated than GNOME is. I think that that's what a "desktop environment" should be, after all.

    12. Re:Gnome User by jfunk · · Score: 3, Informative

      Don't forget the coolest feature of KDE file dialogs: bookmarks.

      The GNOME file dialog is a royal pain to use. It's ugly (layout and widgets) and has no useablity features. I find myself frustrated whenever I use it.

    13. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'm one of the many who went from GNOME to KDE -- but in my case it's because I spent the last three years coding for BeOS, which had a wonderful c++ api. Just beautiful.
      When I realized I had to bail to another OS(choosing linux, obviously) I went to GNOME, since all the screenshots looked so damn purdy.

      But I spent, perhaps, 2 weeks *attempting* to make GTK+ cede to my will, without any worthwhile success.

      For reference, I'm not a c++-only kinda guy. I used to work at a software company writing device drivers for early set-top-boxes in assembler and c. So I _do_ know that kind of stuff. Quite well, in fact.

      The trouble was... GTK+ just didn't make any *sense* to me!

      And on the other hand, QT _did_ and KDE is, after all, written not just in QT/C++, but it follows the same naming and logical conventions (which are, I might add, well thought out.)

      In the end, I actually prefered using GNOME. I think it's nice and slick, and has good minimalist approaches to the user experience. Relative to KDE it's quite minimalist. By this point (6 months into linux use/programming) I've managed to learn KDE well enough that it's a good experience for me...

      but by god I'm never going to touch GTK/GNOME APIs again if I don't have to.

      Just my 2c

    14. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow...you managed to use the KDE wm over Sawfish?

      KDE vs GNOME arguments aside (I used sawfish before GNOME ever adopted it), the KDE wm is really bad compared to sawfish. Sawfish is incredibly elegant and powerful -- if you have tidbits of lisp you've written to make emacs work "right" (i.e. your way) in your .emacs, you'll love Sawfish.

      The KDE wm is the most basic wm since twm...

    15. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      As for why I think KDE is better, I can't really give concrete reasons. The looks are worse, localization is better, customizability is a bit better, default terminal is better, default browser is better, rpm manager is worse...but no real big differences between the two. I'll install KDE at work for the simple reason that its office suit and desktop can be configured to look quite like windows, to which folks at my company are used to.

      KDE looks worse, dunno about localization, GNOME is a hellova lot more customizable, default terminal of both GNOME and KDE are slow and lame (use rxvt, for God's sake!), both the GNOME and KDE RPM managers are terrible (use CLI RPM!).

      The only two things I can use to recommend KDE over GNOME is that Konqueror is currently faster (but supports less *stuff*) than Mozilla, and it looks lots more like Windows (which is a big minus to me, but some people might like this).

    16. Re:Gnome User by hexix · · Score: 1

      It's stupid cause why do you care what other people use? It's fine to like a program but what's the point of trying to push it on other people? Especially a text editor, as a text file will work with any text editor. I'd say that makes it a pretty stupid debate.

    17. Re:Gnome User by Xiphoid+Process · · Score: 1

      "The GNOME file dialog is a royal pain to use. It's ugly (layout and widgets) and has no useablity features. I find myself frustrated whenever I use it. "

      Which is why it has been rewritten for Gnome 2.0 :)

      --
      got drum'n'bass?

      http://mp3.com/vitriolix
    18. Re:Gnome User by jonathan_ingram · · Score: 1
      Your desktop environment timeline is very similar to mine :)

      although there is nothing like the KDE Liquid theme, with transparent menus, shadowed text, and strippled window backgrounds

      I really wish Mosfet hadn't had that stupid little spat with the core KDE developers -- KDE needs people like him who are interested in both graphics and programming. He just seemed to have a habit of checking code in 2 days after the final code-freeze deadlines...

      (for those of you new to the story -- Mosfet developed the KDE 2 style engines as well as Pixie. After being told that he couldn't add his Liquid style because it was after a feature freeze deadline, Mosfet decided to remove all his code from the KDE CVS and change the license on it to a form of the QPL. Most of the styles have been readded in the form they were before they were removed, and are now being developed independently. This is a picture of Liquid, which is nice I suppose if you like that sort of thing.)

    19. Re:Gnome User by hexix · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah definitely. I'm pretty sure that GNOME is getting a new file selection dialog, in fact in Ximian GNOME right now there is a new one, which is much nicer.

      My only gripe about the KDE file selection dialog is the fact that you can't specify directories in the same spot you type in files. One thing I've grown to love about the Gnome/GTK+ file selection dialog (no matter how ugly it is) is that I can use tab completion to specify a full path very quickly, just like in a bash shell. For example, if I want to get to the directory /usr/share/pixmaps/backgrounds I can type /usr/shpixba and that will usually get me there very quickly. And you can do the same thing with files of course, and if there is more then one match when you hit tab, that's what files/directories the file selection dialog will show so you can find files very quickly this way.

      With KDE's there is a seperate text input for the directory, which is nice and it should stay that way but I think they should add the ability to specify the directory in the file text input box.

      But, pretty small gripe considering all the things the GNOME/GTK+ selection dialog has wrong with it ;)

    20. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      kwin is fully scriptable. It has a full dcop interface. And so does almost every KDE application. And you don't even need to know lisp, since you can intregrate it with __any__ language, as well as shell scripts (through the dcop command). Kwin can also be styled and theme much more than sawfish because of kwin's engine theme support, written in C++. For example, you could embed a khtml widget in the titlebar to display a webpage. Lets see crazy stuff like that with sawfish :). Since kwin's engines are in C++, kwin also happens to consume a lot fewer resources because it does not use a much slower lisp interpreter like sawfish.

      if still like sawfish, you can use it with > KDE 2.0. sawfish is fully compatible with the NETWM spec which GNOME 1.4 has recently adopted and KDE has since 2.0. I've used sawfish in the past too, but I gotta say that kwin simply r0x0rs.

    21. Re:Gnome User by pivo · · Score: 1

      Let me get this striaght. You think that national policy and what someone (whom you don't even know) should use for a text editor are equally valid debates?

    22. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      heh, you must be using KDE 1.x or something, because 90% of your post is just wrong.

      uhh, KDE does NOT look like windows. Just look at the new GTK+ default raleigh style. It reeks of windowsness. KDE is going forward while GNOME is going backwards.

      KDE is also a LOT more customizable than GNOME is, especially in recent KDE versions. GNOME used to have a large lead in this, but it has been reversed.

      KDE's default terminal (konsole) is a lot better than GNOME-terminal, mainly because of the multiple tabbed feature.

      RPM manager in KDE is a lot better than any gtk+ one that I've seen. It also work with DEBS. Kpackage is really great.

      Konqueror supports a lot more *stuff* than Mozilla does. It can display .pdf files, can use ActiveX plugins, acts like a file manager. Also, it seems to have better and easier to configure java support. It does this without having the horrible bloat that Mozilla does (a IRC client in a webbrowser? wtf!#%@^).

    23. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, I am one of the many users who switched from KDE 1.2 to GNOME 1.2 and switched back to KDE 2.1 from GNOME 1.4. Why?

      Because GNOME developers fscked up GNOME 1.4.

      They removed many of the advantages to using GNOME, like it being much lighter than KDE with shit like Nautilus. They didn't ever catchup to the integration of KDE.

      Meanwhile, KDE catched up to customizability and look and feel, like I can use GTK+ themes in KDE.

      I really liked GNOME 1.2. Now, I really like KDE 2.2. I don't think I'm going to switch back unless they fix up GNOME to how it felt like in GNOME 1.2 (not likely).

    24. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually, you don't have to use nautilus if don't want to...

    25. Re:Gnome User by FunkyChild · · Score: 1

      I can make my whole user interface look exactly like MacOS 8 (which I do).

      With a working mac-style menu bar like KDE does, eh? ;)

    26. Re:Gnome User by tzanger · · Score: 2

      My only gripe about the KDE file selection dialog is the fact that you can't specify directories in the same spot you type in files.

      Uh... I just tested this with KATE. Alt-f, o, win/autoexec.bat [enter] -- works just fine. Same with saving.

      Now I don't have the nifty tab completion but if I type the directory in the directory text entry widget I can do /usr/sh[end]/pix[end] and then tab down to the file...

    27. Re:Gnome User by hexix · · Score: 1

      I meant you can't switch to a different directory without going and typing it in in the other field. with GTK+'s you can type the directory name and hit tab and it will show the contents of that directory. No need to switch to the other text field and type in the directory then switch back to the other text field. That's all I was trying to say.

    28. Re:Gnome User by Nailer · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty sure that GNOME is getting a new file selection dialog, in fact in Ximian GNOME right now there is a new one, which is much nicer.

      Even more interesting: this is actually a complete remake of the file selection from Microsoft Office 2000.

    29. Re:Gnome User by hagbard5235 · · Score: 1

      I've recently switched from Enlightenment/Gnome
      as a desktop to KDE. Two major driving
      factors where Konqueror and Konsole ( tabbed
      shells... mmm... ). I had previously
      used Galeon, and I prefer Konqueror in most
      respects ( but please for the love of God bring
      tabbed browsing to Konqueror!! ).

      I still use Evolution for email
      ( kmail is just not as feature rich or usable )
      and Gnumeric for spreadsheets. I would say that
      Kmail and Kspread still need a fair bit more work
      to catch up (particularily kmail).

    30. Re:Gnome User by puetzk · · Score: 1

      but you can... just type in the dir name and hit return, and there you are.

      No tabcompleting the names though (unless you use the other field). I admit that. It would be a small, nice feature for kde3 to add, now that you mention it. Maybe I'll file a wishlist on that, or even just write it myself :-)

      --
      The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
    31. Re:Gnome User by Ranger+Rick · · Score: 1

      Same here. Tabbed shells is so freakin' awesome, I have no idea how they didn't exist before. It's great being able to work on something and change the tabs to match the host or system or program I'm working with in that window...

      That's what switched me; 90% of my work is either browsing or working in a shell. KDE excels at that...

      --

      WWJD? JWRTFM!!!

    32. Re:Gnome User by Ranger+Rick · · Score: 1

      Follows my timeline too... I've recently been loving the extra effective screen space I get out of AA font support in *every* QT app already being available. Along with mosfet, I've got a desktop that's both beautiful and (gasp!) useful... (screenshot).

      --

      WWJD? JWRTFM!!!

    33. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used KDE in the pre 1.0 - pre 1.1 days. Installing involved downloading QT and 5 or 6 KDE tarballs, and a couple make installs.

      I tried using GNOME once, but it downloading a handful of gnome tarballs, I never got it to compile. Hell, I never got it to configure, since it wouldn't even do that without installing half a dozen oddball libraries from all over the place.

      I don't use either right now, though I may install one or both since I have a 80 gig drive sitting empty. GNOME used to be pretty much linux-specific, but since solaris is using it, it may work with real unixes these days. Maybe if KDE would work with berlin....

    34. Re:Gnome User by foonf · · Score: 1

      I started using GNOME around 1.0. I picked it because of the eye candy -- it crashed more often and was slower than KDE 1.1, but both were slow enough and crashed enough on my Cyrix 6x86 that I wasn't too concerned with that.

      I was really impressed with GNOME 1.2. Along with improvements to enlightenment (I kept using it even after Sawfish became the default -- it is "small and light" only compared to E, and it lacks all the eye candy), it became quite stable and customizable.

      1.4 was not a major improvement. I couldn't ever get Nautilus to work on Red Hat 6.x, which I was still using (thanks to Ximian's excellent update system). And gmc was going nowhere. And other than Nautilus little else was changed about 1.4. At the same time, KDE 2 was improving rapidly. I installed the core components of 2.1 in order to use Konqueror as browser, and was quite impressed with the overall feel of it.

      When I finally decided to install a new distro (Slackware 8) I went with KDE 2, mainly to get a feel for it. I didn't really look back...of course, it didn't help that I couldn't get the default gnome installation to run Nautilus on startup (even when you can get it to work, it doesn't feel very well integrated with the rest of the desktop). But although I use it, and like it, I really dispute the argument that it has totally supplanted GNOME, and GNOME has no longer any purpose.

      Because I basically use KDE as a front end to GNOME and GTK applications. Its true that a few -- XChat, GIMP, GFTP and Abiword -- do not require GNOME, others -- Galeon, Evolution, Pan,to name a few, are completely dependent on GNOME. And visually KDE is still behind, and it doesn't quite have the themability that E/GNOME did. It seems like all the ugly E, Sawmill and GTK themes have been ported to KDE, but I still can't make it look like this.

      And no (referring to screenshot), that useful XMMS panel control has no KDE equivalent. Neither does mini-commander, the box next to the clock for entering commands. And that system monitor? Thats Gkrellm, it uses GTK. I hope GNOME 2.0 is much improved...as you can tell, I would like to use it again.

      --

      "(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
    35. Re:Gnome User by root_42 · · Score: 1

      > and it doesn't quite have the themability that
      > E/GNOME did.

      That's not true anymore. Try High Performance Liquid for example. Ok, KDE needs more of these themes, but I for once like the plain themes/styles, because eye candy things are really bad for daily work.

      > that useful XMMS panel control has no KDE
      > equivalent.

      Well, it doesn't have to! Just take wmxmms from WindoMaker and load the Dock Application Bar Extension for Kicker (the Panel). Then you can use ALL of you favourite WM dock apps.

      > Neither does mini-commander, the box next to
      > the clock for entering commands.

      I like the Alt-F2 command box from KDE better. No need to take your hands from the keyboard. Plus you can execute su-commands with it.

      > And that system monitor? Thats Gkrellm, it
      > uses GTK.

      Well, granted. There's no spiffy Gkrellm for KDE, but hey! KDE does run GTK apps, too, doesn't it?

      --
      [--- PGP key and more on http://www.root42.de ---]
    36. Re:Gnome User by Jens · · Score: 4, Informative
      One thing I've grown to love about the Gnome/GTK+ file selection dialog (no matter how ugly it is) is that I can use tab completion to specify a full path very quickly

      Have you ever right-clicked on the file name input widget? It says right there: "Completion: (none, manual, menu, automatic, short automatic)"

      This goes for EVERY input widget that accepts URLs. Not only for file dialogs. KDE rocks. :-)

    37. Re:Gnome User by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it doesn't have to! Just take wmxmms from WindoMaker and load the Dock Application Bar Extension for Kicker (the Panel). Then you can use ALL of you favourite WM dock apps.

      Actually, there is an applet to remote-control all sorts of mp3-players, e.g. xmms, noatun (and others?). It's called mediacontrol-applet and lives in the kdenonbeta module. Even better IMHO is the keyboard control, you can Play/Pause with Ctrl-Alt-P for example. Without ever touching the mouse. All this right from within your application you're currently working!

      I like the Alt-F2 command box from KDE better. No need to take your hands from the keyboard. Plus you can execute su-commands with it.

      Me too. But for those who don't, there is an applauncher applet for kicker.

      Well, granted. There's no spiffy Gkrellm for KDE, but hey! KDE does run GTK apps, too, doesn't it?

      There is ksim, also in kdenonbeta, which is a KDE-version of Gkrellm. It also supports Gkrellm skins.

    38. Re:Gnome User by Error27 · · Score: 2

      Actually, the only proplem I have with the Gnome file dialogue is that there is no way to display hidden files except typing '.' and 'tab.' New users don't know how to do this and experienced users don't want to have to move their hand from the mouse button to the keyboard and back.

      In KDE it takes three mouse clicks to show hidden files and three mouse clicks to hide them again. That's as annoying as gnome.

      Personally, I think Gnome's way of showing all files regardless of type is better than KDE's and microsofts way of only displaying certain types of files. This may seem usefull at first but it confuses newbies who wonder, "Hey! Who deleted all my files?!?" It is better to allow users to organize their own files into sub directories.

      In general, the only hidden files should be hidden files but you should be able to display or hide them again at the click of a button.

      (KDE file menu has some other nice features... I think the home button and bookmarks are nice.)

  41. Alpha blending by hexix · · Score: 1

    The release notes mentions hardware accelerated alpha blending. Does this mean that KDE will have a super smooth looking desktop like Nautilus but still be very fast? I love the look of Nautilus when the smooth graphics are turned on, but the performance hit sucks.

    Also this should get rid of the sharp edges of icons in the KDE menu and on buttons in programs right? Or are they only using it for fading out inactive items?

    Anyone have a screenshot of KDE 3.0 alpha showing how the alpha blending looks?

    1. Re:Alpha blending by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The smooth look of nautilus is more to do with AA text, which is also implemented in KDE-well QT actually-in all applications, whereas in Nautilus it is a nasty hack, and does not work on other Gnome apps. HW accel alpha blending will however allow some cool eye candy, with no performance hit.

    2. Re:Alpha blending by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You only get hardware accelerated alpha blending if you have a card with solid Linux driver support like the Matrox GXXX line.

      I suspect that with unsupported cards, X will fall back to software blending, though I don't know. You might just get jaggies.

    3. Re:Alpha blending by hexix · · Score: 1

      I was refering to the smoothing nautilus does to the icons. It blends a drop shadow in with the background. It looks very nice, even has drop shadows that fade into the background. But, like I said before, it comes at a performance hit. So I was wondering, or more like hoping, that KDE 3.0 would give the same great look but do it much faster.

    4. Re:Alpha blending by fault0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, actually almost all cards in XFree 4.1 have xrender support. And so has the closed-src NVIDIA driver for almost 8 months now.

    5. Re:Alpha blending by fault0 · · Score: 1

      KDE already does this for all large icons. It has since KDE 2.1.

      kcontrol->Icons->blend alpha channel

      Currently, it uses software rendering to do it (Konq. seems a lot faster than Nautilus). KDE 3 will use xrender to do it, which will be hardware accelerrated (and so, there will be no performance hit because the video card handles it instead of the CPU).

    6. Re:Alpha blending by dangermouse · · Score: 1
      What would be *really* swank is drop-shadowed windows, a la OS X.

      Those shadows and true transparency in Terminal are my favorite pieces of eye candy on that OS.

    7. Re:Alpha blending by fault0 · · Score: 1

      both of which is possible with xrender

  42. ATTN: Egg Troll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    What's your sexual fantasy?

  43. "Just as unstable as Windows" - Ballmer by Scoria · · Score: 1

    One thing to make this article better:

    from the developers-developers-developers dept.

    :)

    --
    Do you like German cars?
  44. The Alphabet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z

  45. Don't get me wrong but... by Snoozer_man · · Score: 1

    I don't like kde or gnome for that matter, If I wanted a cpu heavy WM I'd use windows. I know saying that will piss some people off but it's true. The reason I started useinglinux a few years ago was to NOT have a computer thats memory was all bogged down with the GUI (windows) so I turned to Linux. WM's like kde and Gnome are great for transition from windows but the reason for changing should be to get more out of your PC not just to be cool or whatever.I usually use XFCE or iceWM mainly because I don't carre what "theme" I'm using, I care about how well my apps will run. Please don't flame me for saying that.

    --
    Thanks Snoozer
    1. Re:Don't get me wrong but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      Suck my cock, "Snoozer_man"! Fuck you.

    2. Re:Don't get me wrong but... by Snoozer_man · · Score: 1

      Thats a great reply, I'm realy glad you thought about what you said before you said it! LMAO. ok let me put what I said straight for you GNOME and KDE are not for me. I like to put my cup to use in other areas like getting work done. ok now don't get me wrong I never said they suck actually they are great just NOT FOR ME. ok? I'm sorry if I offended you.

      --
      Thanks Snoozer
    3. Re:Don't get me wrong but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You don't need to run *all* of KDE *or* GNOME, which is the great thing about both projects.

      Take me. When I first ran across GNOME (around 1.0), it was really unstable. However, gnome-panel beat the snot out of AfterStep's wharf. So I just ran the panel, and ignored the rest of GNOME.

      Now that GNOME is all around better than before, I actually run gnome-session, and have GNOME start my WM. I still don't use gmc, which I don't like, and stick to bash for file management. No icons on the desktop, but I'm using GNOME and GNOME apps.

      So while you certainly don't have to run GNOME or KDE or GNUStep (It's Linux! The land of choice!), be aware that the parts may be worth more than the whole.

      This is NOT my home page.

    4. Re:Don't get me wrong but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I don't disagree with you, I think you're missing the point. A modern PC (standard config today is what, 700+mhz CPU and 128meg ram and tons of disk space) being used the way most people use it (work processing, web surfing, e-mail, some chat, etc) has a large amount of power that's not being used - KDE and Gnome seem to be doing a good job of trying to reach a decent balance between a good looking, easy to use environment and a light and lean expert's environment. I'm running Gnome+KDE w/ Enlightenment as my WM on my machine at work - it's a 180mhz 604e (Powertower 180) w/ a 2 gig SCSI II HD and 128 meg ram. Even w/ the GUI running the system stays *very* responsive. I like the eyecandy, so why strip it out when it doesn't affect my work? On the other hand I have a P133 laptop w/ 32meg ram and a 1 gig HD. I run iceWM on it - KDE and Gnome are just too much for it.

      Basically - it's not "linux should have a lightweight GUI 'cause that's what I use" or "linux should have an awesome more-windows-than-windows or more-mac-with-mac (which brings up a another point - WTF are the developers copying Windows crappy UI? The Mac's model is *so* much better....) window manager - it's about flexibility. Having the tools you need to do what you want. That's why linux needs KDE, Gnome, *and* iceWM (& all the others).

    5. Re:Don't get me wrong but... by dangermouse · · Score: 2
      So, the reason I switched from Windows to Linux full-time is that Windows sucked at its job. (It's gotten a lot better, incidentally, but still doesn't do it for me.)

      In terms of "getting more out of" my PC... it's a desktop machine. Its entire purpose in life is to provide me with a decent set of apps in a nice, convenient, featureful interfce. "Getting more" does not involve stripping down the UI to bare minimum so I can encode the occasional vorbis file a little bit faster. That's what nice(1) and renice(8) are for.

      Maybe it's just me, but the "just to be cool" factor seems to be more prevalent among people who use Blackbox, Enlightenment, and Windowmaker than among those who use a full Gnome or (especially) KDE desktop.

      KDE isn't leet, I'm told. Oh well.

    6. Re:Don't get me wrong but... by notten · · Score: 1

      Umm, KDE2 isn't that resource heavy. Well, OK, maybe it is, but I run KDE2 in FreeBSD and I think it's great. I don't mind the resource usage even if my computer sucks (K6-2 450 / 128 MB SDRAM) because I get lots of stuff I need. Probably the best example I can give you is the Konsole program spread across all desktops with vi running in at least 5 tabs. It's the only way I can code my OS. In most other DEs I'd either have to run multiple console windows or have only 1 desktop. Remember that KDE is not just a Window Manager but an entire Desktop Environment. Maybe you'd change your mind if you tried KDE2. It's bad like KDE1. I actually have to congratulate KDE devs for making KDE2 so good. Hope you change your narrow mind.

      notten

    7. Re:Don't get me wrong but... by Snoozer_man · · Score: 1

      Sorry guys I obviously didn't make my point clear (my fault) yes linux needs WM like Gnome and KDE yes they are easy to use, Yes I'm glad they are there to make it easier for people to use, I just don't like them for my WM. I've got a p2 350 (although I do have 400+ MB of ram ;) and my computer runs great with XFCE or a lighter weight WM, It doesn't slow to a crawl with Gnome or KDE but you do see a difference in preformance. KDE is great, so is Gnome, just not my cup of tea.

      --
      Thanks Snoozer
  46. Gay Llama Jihad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
    We, the Gay Llamas' of America proclaim jihad on CmdrTaco.



    THANKYOU AND GOODNIGHT

  47. egg troll=jackass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    egg troll is a whiney bitch. Fuck egg troll.

    1. Re:egg troll=jackass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      egg troll is a whiney bitch. Fuck egg troll.

      I did. He's not a whiny bitch at all. He's a hot hung stud with sperm to spare! He did get a little squeamish that one time I stuck my finger up his ass, but he "loosened up" (tee-hee) after a bit. Buh-bye now, I have an AA meeting in about 20 mins.

      -Jenna Bush

  48. Hey moderators! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Waste some of your mod points on this! You don't really need 'em anyway!

  49. Egg Troll's Fantasy!!! :) by egg+troll · · Score: -1

    Part 5 - The Trial (Part II)

    The first two tests had brought Pooch to the very brink of loosing her
    mind. While her
    intellect said obey, do exactly as your told or else the hurt will be
    much worse her body only
    perceived that the more she obeyed the worse the hurt became and it was
    time to run away
    from the pain. The urge to close her eyes and curl up into a tight
    little ball was
    overwhelming. During the short break between tasks Pooch's intellect
    was able to regain a
    larger proportion of control but she feared that another task that
    tested her endurance to
    pain would be more than she could handle.
    She would get a break from pure pain. In its place would come pure
    shame.
    Having been instructed in the requirements of task number three Pooch
    crawled over to the
    couch where the four male jurors were seated. Her back was arched and
    her dangling breasts
    swung from side to side with each stride. Mouth slightly open she licked
    her lips and forced
    a smile trying to entice the strange men to mount her. Pooch was a
    bitchslave, part human,
    part dog. Her task was to get all four men to come at the same time
    using her entire body
    but not touching their sex organs with her hands. Most importantly they
    had to convinced
    that she was enjoying every minute.
    Enjoyment was going to be the last thing that she actually felt. Pooch
    was no slut. She was
    an intensely private person, painfully shy and ashamed of her need to be
    dominated. The
    main reason she had not left Ed, when she was given the opportunity,
    was that she couldn't
    see herself going out into the real world and finding someone else that
    could take his place.
    What would people think when they saw the marks of ten years of
    subjugation covering her
    body. She would be too embarrassed to expose herself to anyone else but
    Ed. Now she had
    to make out like a common whore soliciting sex from strangers she could
    never like. The
    problem was her life depended on it so the licking tongue, swaying hips
    and swinging tits
    advanced forward.
    As she neared the edge of the sofa Pooch leaned foreword rubbing up
    enticingly against
    Steve's leg with her cheek sliding up and down, sticking out her tongue
    and panting softly.
    She then slid her face farther up until it contacted the surgeons crotch
    pushing her nose deep
    into the crevice until it massaged the very erect penis. Getting these
    men aroused was not
    going to be much of a problem but how she would get all four of them off
    at the same time
    was still a mystery to her.
    After rubbing up against his crotch for a minute she attacked his belt
    buckle with her teeth
    then moving on to undue the waist band and pulling down his zipper.
    Pooch then latched on
    to the top of Steve's boxers with her teeth and pulled them down hooking
    them underneath
    his sweaty hairy balls, exposing the excited cock for all to see. She
    gave it a long slow lick
    from the base of his balls to the tip of the slimy head and then moved
    her performance over
    to Garret.
    As she moved over Pooch swallowed the precum that her tongue had picked
    up off the end
    of Garret's penis. The smile on her face belied the revulsion she felt.
    When she pulled down
    Garret's zipper and saw the yellow stain on his white jockeys it turned
    her stomach. As her
    tongue snaked through the fly toward his pulsing dick she could smell
    the pungent smell of
    urine and thought, how could any woman possibly want to do this for a
    living? Softly and
    carefully using tongue and teeth Pooch pulled the rigid snake out from
    the protection of
    Garret's shorts. She used her lips to pull down the foreskin and ready
    it for action. He
    breathed heavily trying to keep himself cool and in control while all
    the while he really
    wanted to shoot his load into the gentle mouth he was quickly falling in
    love with. The look
    of desire never left Pooch's face. She kissed the cock head then slid
    over to prepare Jordan.
    There was nothing Jordan enjoyed more than being serviced by and
    dominating white
    women. With Pooch on her hands and knees prepared to expose his manhood
    with her
    docile mouth he was in his glory. Jordan sat on the sofa legs spread,
    his body language
    saying service me bitch.
    Pooch had never had sex with a black man. She didn't feel she was a
    racist but still she felt
    that somehow this was an another step in her degradation. It was Jordan
    who had come up
    with the pussy whipping test. She hatted him.
    "Lets go bitch. Show me how much you love black cock".
    Don't these guys ever wash?, thought Pooch as her mouth worked on
    freeing Jordan's dick.
    The mingled smells of sweat, urine and precum was turning her stomach.
    As her mouth
    began inhaling the dirty dick she heard Mark get up and pull down his
    own jeans.
    Apparently he had grown impatient. He moved behind her and placed his
    hands on her waist.
    Her rape was about to begin.
    Jordan grabbed Pooch by the hair and shoved her head down on his cock
    gagging her with
    his dick. At the same time Mark thrust deep into the cunt he had so
    savagely whipped just
    minutes before. Once again Pooch was thrown into a world of pain she
    dared not try to
    escape. Garret climbed on top of her hips, positioning himself ahead of
    Mark he pushed into
    Pooches dark hole restretching the skin just ahead of her anus that had
    been torn preparing
    for the whipping, Each thrust by either Mark or Garret seemed to rip her
    apart.
    "Move it slut", boomed Mark, "if I wanted a dead lay I'd be humping
    Jasmine."
    Agonizingly Pooch started to move back and forth in rhythm with the two
    men at her rear.
    Each thrust brought a fresh jolt of ripping, tearing pain. At the other
    end her ability to breath
    was seriously jeopardized by the smelly cock lodged in the back of her
    throat.
    "What are you going to do about Steve?", joked Jordan. "You seems to be
    out of holes
    bitch".
    For Jordan it was funny for Pooch it was cause for more panic. What
    could she do? She had
    to get all four men off at once. Her mind raced. She was rewarded with
    clarity. Pooch
    suddenly understood what she had to do and how the previous tasks were
    in preparation for
    her rape.
    Pooch grabbed her burning breasts with her hands hand started slapping
    them together.
    "I think she wants to tit fuck you Steve", said Mark. "You better get
    underneath".
    Steve slid his hips underneath Pooch's tortured tits. Pooch lowered her
    chest and grabbed
    Steve between her tits pushing them together from the side with her
    hands squeezing his
    throbbing cock. She started into a rocking rhythm moving her rear back
    and forth her chest
    up and down and her head up and down together with her chest.
    Sweat poured out of her body in response to the strain as well as the
    pain. She was
    exhausted.
    As she sensed the men were approaching climax Pooch began to moan. She
    thought she had
    better fake it.
    Garret and Jordan shot their loads at almost the same time. Pooch first
    gagged and then
    stifled a cough in a desperate attempt to contain Jordan's sperm within
    her mouth. The
    stifled cough sent some of his seed up and out her nose. She tried to
    snort it back in.
    "Mmmmm" she moaned as she swallowed the vile load.
    The two men fucking her pain centers came shortly after covering her
    chest with cum and
    leaving her with a dripping anus and cunt. There was a fair bit of blood
    mixed with the jism
    dripping from her cunt. Pooch was so relieved it was almost over.
    She crawled over to Mark and used her mouth and tongue to clean up his
    penis. Jordan was
    cleaned while being serviced so he was OK. Mark was cleaned next. Garret
    was the nasty
    one to clean up since he had been in her shit hole but at this point
    Pooch didn't much mind.
    Soon she had put away the blanket placed on the carpet for her
    performance and returned
    the coffee table to its proper spot. Eyes on the torture of Jasmine she
    awaited task four.
    "Did you enjoy your time with the boys?", asked Marla.
    "Yes mistress, I loved serving them", came the reply.
    "Would you like to fuck them again?.
    "If it pleases you I would love to fuck them again".
    "Well, if they decide to let you live I am sure you will get many
    opportunities, but now It's
    time to see if you can please the ladies. I am sure you will enjoy
    servicing them as much as
    you enjoyed doing the men. Now since using your hands directly wasn't
    allowed when you
    did the men it would only be right that they be off limits with the
    ladies too. Obviously you
    can use your mouth on one of the ladies. Greta was nice enough to bring
    in this very special
    device that she calls her Rebel Tamer. She says one session with it will
    turn the toughest
    man into a whimpering docile lamb".
    Marla held up a shiny black strap on dildo that was very large though
    not monstrous, maybe
    two and a half inches in diameter by a foot long. On the back end there
    was a rubber cup
    shaped to conform to a girls crotch with a series of thin, soft rubber
    fingers that would
    stimulate her pussy and especially her clit as the dildo moved back and
    forth. The business
    end of the Rebel Tamer had a feature Pooch had never seen before.
    Running up the entire
    length of the instrument were twelve pairs of rings that looked like
    very thin metal washers.
    There was a space of a couple of millimeters separating the rings in
    each pair.
    "You will notice these rings", said Marla. "As this moves back and forth
    in your hole the
    rings are pushed together caching and pinching any flesh caught between
    them. The grip
    isn't strong enough to actually cause much damage but I'm told it feels
    like someone has
    gone to work on your insides with a dozen pairs of pliers. To add to
    the stimulation Greta
    has also brought in this special lubricating cream mixed with avery
    special hot sauce. It's the
    hottest hot sauce we know of. Since it's mixed in with grease and not
    water soluble it stays
    were it's put for a very long time. You should find this combination
    extremely stimulating.
    Now, spread your cunt lips I want to see how much damage there is.
    Marla came over to examine Pooch's severely damaged vagina. Pooch held
    it spread open
    for examination with her finger tips.
    "It looks pretty bad", said Marla. Greta is going to have to make use
    your ass hole. You will
    make these ladies feel very special, remember that they are your
    mistresses as much as I am
    when you are servicing them. I think you should start with your dog act
    and then they will
    direct you from there. You can lay the blanket down in front of Shandra.
    I think she is going
    to stay in her seat. Don't forget to thank the ladies when they're
    finished. I want a special
    thank you for Greta. Go ahead".
    With each new step in the trial Pooch was becoming increasingly humbled.
    Where at first she
    thought she could triumph over pain she found that the most she could
    hope for was to keep
    her sanity and that was a huge struggle that she had been on the brink
    of loosing several
    times. Her sense of shame was being taken away from her. It was another
    possession, a part
    of her personality, that she was no longer allowed to have. How much
    more of her
    personality will she be forced to give up? She was acting like a common
    whore and now she
    would be a lesbian whore. Though she still felt shame she could sense
    this would fade with
    time and repetition. This loss added to her sadness. Physically she was
    exhausted. All her
    muscles ached from both the earlier beating and the recent rape. Her
    breast were still on fire
    and her pussy was hyper sensitive to any stimulation at all. A raging
    thirst was becoming a
    focus point. She had been sweating profusely and hadn't had a drink
    since the afternoon.
    Pooch new that soon her ass would be a new source of torment. It scared
    her because in
    every previous task tonight the consequence had been worse than she had
    imagined. There
    was no reason to expect that it would be any different this time.
    Pooch crawled over to Shandra, back arched tits swaying and rubbed her
    cheek on
    Shandra's red nylons. This was the most revolting thing that she had
    ever done and it was
    only the beginning.
    Shandra grabbed Pooch's hair with both hands and violently yanked her
    head back. Pooch
    inadvertently looked into Shandra's eyes. The madam's right hand
    immediately let go of her
    hair and delivered a series of three full force slaps to the slaves
    face. Pooch was stunned.
    "What's the matter with you? Are you stupid or what?, spit out Shandra.
    "You know you
    never look a superior in the face!!"
    "I'm sorry mistress Shandra", Pooch bawled. This was a new humiliation.
    She was being
    disciplined like a dog by a total stranger.
    "My shoes got a bit muddy on the way over here why don't you like the
    soles clean. I don't
    want your salty spit ruining the nice leather on top". Shandra crossed
    her legs. Pooch's
    tongue went to work on the dirty sole. It would have been a lot easier
    if she had some spit to
    keep her tongue moist. After five minutes Shandra crossed her other leg
    letting Pooch start
    on a fresh shoe.
    "I think we may have found something you are qualified for", said
    Shandra.
    After a while Pooch was instructed to pull down Shandra's panty hose
    and panties, using
    her hands, so that they were just above Shandra's knees. The red stained
    sanitary napkin
    stuck to her panties indicated that Shandra was in the middle of her
    period.

    "Go over to Greta slave"
    Pooch moved her cheek over to Greta's beautiful muscular leg.
    Much as Shandra had done before her, Greta snatched two handfuls of
    Pooch's damp hair
    and pulled them up to her own face.
    Pooch's eyes shot to the floor. She had learned her lesson.
    When Pooch's lips were directly in front of her own Greta planted a
    long, wet and deep kiss
    directly on Pooch's dry mouth. It was the sloppiest kiss Pooch had ever
    received. Greta's
    tongue reached for Pooch's tonsils.
    But, this was not an erotic kiss. It was a degrading kiss. The kiss of
    death. It was an I can do
    whatever I want to do to you, kiss. It was the kiss of Judas. It was a
    kiss so overwhelming
    that Pooch felt that she had just been buried alive under a hundred feet
    of cement.
    Greta released the kiss, Pooch slumped back to her knees. She was in a
    daze. She wondered,
    what had just happened?
    Greta brought Pooch back to her senses with a kick to the ribs.
    The kick was hard enough to allow the metal toe on Greta's stiletto to
    break the skin but not
    break a rib.
    "Turn your ass around, I want it facing me", ordered Greta in a stern,
    cold but very clear and
    distinct voice.
    "Now I am going to make sure your ass hole is large enough to accept the
    Rebel Tamer".
    "And by the way, I wish you would do something about your breath. It
    smells like shit.
    Lucky I have a strong stomach or you'd be licking up puke right now".
    With that Greta leaned back in the sofa and with a strong, steady push
    she shoved her
    stiletto heel straight into Pooch's waiting ass hole right up to the
    top. With no lubrication
    the two sharp inside edges of Greta's heel cut into Pooch's clenched
    sphincter. The edges
    cut right into the muscle.
    Pooch's world exploded.....
    She curled into the tightest, most tiny, most compact, most little ball
    in the world. Her arm
    buried her head underneath it. Her eyes scrunched shut tighter than they
    had ever been
    scrunched shut before.
    And for a second,... for a slow........ delicious...... second the pain
    went away.
    Pooch's body had wrested control from her mind. Her intellect was now
    only an observer.
    Then everything went black.
    The suddenness of Greta's attack cut through every defense Pooch could
    raise.
    First, there was the devastating kiss, then before being able to recover
    from that her ass is
    torn open by an attack so brutal no one in the room could believe it
    happened until they saw
    Greta shoving the ringed dildo into Pooch's bloody ass hole.
    "I expect my pupils to have a higher tolerance for pain", stated Greta
    mater of factly. But
    since she isn't yet a student maybe I can let this one pass
    Greta buried the pepper sauce grease coated phallus up to the hilt in
    Pooch's ass.
    Maybe it was the heat that woke the slave from her blissful slumber, but
    whatever it was she
    was soon screaming and writhing hysterically on the carpet.
    "I'm burning up!!"
    "Help!! "
    "Help me I'm burning up I cant stand it."
    "Help me please,"
    "Please help me please....."
    Pooch continued on wailing and begging. She had no pride left.
    For the first time in her life Pooch was totally naked for not only her
    body had been striped
    bare but so had her soul.
    Pooch had lost.
    Her mind had been replaced by a clean slate ready to be rewritten. She
    would do what ever
    she was told to do. Her enslavement was absolute.......
    "And I bet you all thought that my little test was going to be the easy
    one".
    Greta had a huge grin on her face. She had barely started.
    She slid of the love seat and sat on her heals next to the broken slave.
    Gently Greta picked up Pooch's sweat drenched head and laid it down on
    top of her lap.
    Her graceful, manicured fingers smoothed the tangles from her hair and
    wiped the tears from
    her cheeks. Slowly Pooch grew quite, her ranting turned to sobs.
    "You know there is nothing to be done about the burning dear", Greta
    said in a soft
    whispery voice. "Even if I pulled out the dildo the grease would stay
    inside and your ass
    would still burn. The only thing that would be accomplished is that your
    chance to become a
    real, true slave would be lost forever. You do want to be a good slave
    don't you"?
    "Yes mistress Greta, but it hurts so much".
    "A good slave must learn to endure what ever her masters wish to subject
    her to. I know
    that sometimes it may be terribly hard and seem unfair but that's just
    how it is for a slave. If
    it was easy there would be no point. Now I am going to hurt you very
    badly. Don't worry,
    no matter how it may feel it will do you no damage and it will make me
    feel very, very good.
    Isn't that what being a slave is all about, pleasing your mistress
    through your suffering"?
    "I guess so mistress".
    "You know how lucky you are?, Greta went on, "you were born for this.
    It's a part of your
    natural being you want to be a slave more than you want anything else.
    Most of my
    customers don't have that advantage. They've been sold by boy friends or
    by their parents or
    kidnapped of the street. For them slavery is very hard.
    "Now be a good girl and bury your face in mistress Shandra's pussy and
    spread your legs
    wide for me while I attach these straps to myself. Now get Shandra to
    climax, I'll take care
    of myself. In a few minutes the worst will be over".
    Pooch obeyed Greta's instructions.
    She was starting to feel very different about herself. Greta was right,
    she understood. Pooch
    thought, "I was born to be a slave and my purpose is to serve the wishes
    of my masters. I
    can't keep thinking about myself or my fate, I have surrendered that to
    others. All I have to
    think about is pleasing my masters, nothing more or nothing less. If I
    can do that everything
    else will take care of itself".
    Pooch buried her face in Shandra's snatch and it felt good.
    It felt good because it was hot.
    It felt good because it was very slippery wet.
    It felt good because it smelled.
    It felt good because it was hard to breath.
    It felt good because it was so hairy.
    It felt good because all the menstrual blood.
    Pooch's face belonged there. It was its natural habitat.
    Her tongue reached out to lap Shandra's pussy . She lapped it from her
    ass hole to the top of
    her mons. Pooch's lips found the tiny clit and quickly engulfed it, She
    sucked it hard pulling
    it into her mouth. It tasted salty.
    Pooch winced a few times as the torture dildo moved around a bit as
    Greta strapped herself
    into the apparatus. She had simply kneeled behind Pooch and lifted up
    her skirt. Greta had
    worn stay ups with no panties.
    Pooch gasped as Greta began to withdraw, Sharp pain enveloped her
    insides. Her cut anus
    felt like it was being ripped wide open. All of this additional pain
    came on top of the inferno
    that continued to burn the intestine. When Greta changed direction and
    thrust in it was like
    ten nipple clamps had been released and then snapped back all at the
    same time. The effect
    again exceeded anything Pooch could imagine. All she could do was go
    rigid burying her
    mouth in Shandra's muff. She couldn't breathe. She couldn't move. Would
    she pass out
    again? There was one profound change. Pooch felt no anger or resentment.
    It was something
    she had to endure, it was as simple as that.
    A half minute passed and except for some muffled grunts Pooch remained
    frozen. Shandra
    pulled her head back by the hair.
    "Don't you have a job to do"?, she asked gruffly then shoved Pooch's
    face back into her
    crotch.
    Pooch slowly restarted her tongue.
    By the time both women had an orgasm Pooch was a physical wreck with
    still two more
    tasks to go. The judge called a short recess. Ed led Pooch to the
    washroom where she was
    allowed to refresh herself from the toilet bowl and gather what little
    strength she had left.
    On returning to the living room Pooch's eyes bugged out and jaw drooped.
    There stood the
    two largest dogs that she had ever seen.
    "I bet you can guess what the next test is going to be", said Marla in a
    mocking tone. "These
    beautiful animals are in greater need of relief than even their master
    was. While Boner and
    Clyde are guests in this house you are their slave just as much as if
    they were human. As
    long as you are my property you will never assume that your status is
    above that of any
    animal that might share this house, don't ever forget that. You are
    going to service both of
    these animals while we watch. You will give both oral and vaginal sex on
    both animals until
    they are satisfied. It could take a while. Showing enthusiasm is vital
    since pain is much less
    of a factor here. To make sure the dogs go for the right hole and don't
    end up burning their
    dicks on the hot grease in your ass you will wear this tail which Ed is
    going to insert. The tail
    has a coating that smells like a bitch in heat. It will help get Boner
    and Clyde in the right
    frame of mind. You will act like a dog throughout the session".
    The scene before her caught Pooch unprepared. Nothing in her imagination
    had ever
    included her naked in front of total strangers wearing a but plug tail
    and sucking on a dogs
    dick while another dog is humping her from behind.
    The dogs had no such apprehension. They were a couple of Newfoundlands,
    very intelligent,
    even tempered and very large, easily weighing fifty pounds more tan
    Pooch. The dogs
    belonged to Mark who often used them in films. Intercourse with human
    females was the
    only sexual activity these brothers had ever known. Their wagging tails
    gave away the
    feeling of excitement that they felt.
    Pooch got down on all fours and spread her legs waiting for Ed to insert
    the but plug. Ed
    put a liberal coating of the peppered grease on this new toy and shoved
    it up Pooch's rectum
    which still gaped open from the previous treatment. Under normal
    circumstances Pooch
    would have screamed in pain as the thick end of the plug dilated her
    dark hole and reopened
    previous wounds but in the context of what she had been through this
    pain was tolerable.
    As Ed returned to his chair to watch Pooch began to crawl towards the
    dogs. Her tongue
    hung out of her mouth as she panted in doggy fashion. The dogs started
    toward her. They all
    met in the center of the room.
    Boner, the more dominant of the pair, went straight to Pooch's up thrust
    posterior sniffing
    licking and growing increasingly more excited. In response Pooch spread
    her legs wider
    hoping to entice the huge dog to mount her. At the same time she slowly
    crawled toward
    Clyde. The stage was set for the slave girl to do what only hours ago
    she would have rather
    died than do. Her tongue thrust from her open mouth and began to lick
    Clyde's flaccid penis.
    As Clyde began to grow Boner 's forelegs landed on Pooch's whipped back
    eliciting a gasp
    from her. The dogs long pink penis searched for the hole then found it.
    In the mean time
    Clyde's shaft had left the protection of its sheath filling Pooch's
    mouth.
    Boner began to thrust into his new mate at a faster and faster rate,
    much faster than any man
    had fucked her. Her cunt hurt because of the earlier whipping, so any
    real enjoyment was
    impossible, yet as abhorrent as her actions were this wasn't nearly as
    bad as she had feared.
    Her mouth and tongue aggressively worked on Clyde feeling his member
    stiffen and tense.
    Both dogs came at almost the same time filling both of Pooch's ends with
    copious amount of
    dog cum. Pooch also faked orgasm in an attempt to convince the audience
    that she was truly
    enjoying the moment.
    Pooch had to swallow twice to empty her mouth of the dog sperm. When
    Clyde pulled out
    she continued to lick the dogs cock and balls till the dog turned
    around and started to lick
    her face and mouth. Pooch was touched by the gentleness of the big
    animal opening her
    own mouth to French the big animal. Boner, in the other end, stayed put.
    Pooch could feel
    his penis grow larger as the dog knotted. In nature this action helped
    to ensure that the
    sperm wouldn't leak out thus increasing the likelihood of fertilization.
    Five minutes passed
    before the dog separated from his bitch. During this time Clyde regained
    his masculine
    strength and awaited his turn at the strange dogs pussy.
    Pooch wondered whether animal love would be the only love she would
    receive if she were
    allowed to live in Marla's world.
    After a couple more turns at Pooch's mouth and pussy the dogs lost
    interest. Pooch was
    directed back to her position on the coffee table.
    Like Jasmine on the video screen Pooch felt more dead than alive. She
    had endured more
    pain and humiliation than she had ever thought possible. What more could
    they do to her?
    "I have to admit that I didn't think you would make it this far",
    commented Marla. "There is
    just one last task to go and then it's up to the jury. Bailiff, would
    you please bring in the
    chair".
    Ed returned carrying a red velvet, high backed arm chair. It was a very
    special chair it's
    function was immediately understood by anybody that saw it. The chair
    was missing the seat
    cushion, instead an oak toilet seat took its place. There was also a
    pair of wrist cuffs
    attached near the top of the front legs.
    "What do you think this last task is going to be Pooch?", asked her
    mistress.
    Pooch's face went red in humiliation, still she knew that she had
    better answer.
    "People are going to go to the bathroom on me mistress?", she whimpered.
    "Not quite", answered Marla. "It's much more intimate. Try again".
    "People are going to go in my mouth, mistress", said Pooch in despair.
    "That's better", said Marla. "Your mouth is going to be used as a
    toilet and your belly will
    be the receiving tank. After watching you clean up the playroom floor
    earlier I think this will
    be a breeze for you. You will, of course swallow everything put in your
    mouth and keep it
    down. I understand that your stomach has a limited capacity so if more
    than two people shit
    in your mouth you will be allowed to throw up in a bucket, otherwise you
    will keep it all in.
    Anybody shitting will squeeze off the turds into mouthfuls for you so
    you better not let
    anything fall on my carpet and you better swallow fast. I don't think
    anybody wants to be
    touched by your dirty, dog loving, shit eating mouth so there is a
    funnel at the front of the
    seat to pee in with a hose that you will put in your mouth to collect
    the pee. Now go lie
    down on your back under the chair and place your wrists on the straps so
    you can be locked
    in".
    As Ed secured the slaves wrists to the chair legs the depth to which she
    had fallen sunk into
    her consciousness. Only a few hours ago she was Ed's slave lover,
    comfortable and secure in
    her position. Now she was the property of a woman that she hated with a
    status below even
    that of a dog. She was a human toilet and even that had to be fought
    for.
    Pooch could hear the jurors discussing as to who should go first, It
    ended up being Mark.
    He sauntered over to the special chair, pulled down his pants and sat
    down on the chair.
    Pooch had the best view of a mans ass that she had ever had in her
    life. It was not a pretty
    sight.
    "I've been saving this just for you cunt", Mark said.
    A thick hard dark turd began to emerge from Marks ass heading straight
    for Pooch's gaping
    mouth. As he squeezed off the first piece Pooch had somewhat more than a
    mouthful of the
    acrid shit. She extended her lips to surround the piece and keep any
    from falling on the
    floor. She bit of a piece and swallowed. Immediately her stomach reacted
    trying to bring up
    the vile turd. It took all of her concentration to keep it down.
    Quickly, she knew` there was
    little time, Pooch bit off the second piece and swallowed. The third
    swallow finished the first
    mouthful. It was just in time as Marks ass hole opened up again
    expelling the next load.
    Again her mouth was filled with excrement and again Pooch struggled to
    move it into her
    rebellious stomach. Mark dumped two more loads into her mouth, more than
    a large meal.
    Pooch's belly was nearly full.
    "I'm going to piss now", Mark exclaimed.
    A heavy stream of urine cascaded down the tube into Pooch's mouth from
    Mark's beer
    engorged bladder. It just kept coming and coming. The human toilet could
    barely keep up.
    Finally it stopped. Marked wiped his ass with toilet paper and shoved
    that into Pooch's
    mouth. She swallowed that too.
    Pooch tried to relax her stomach and get it to convince herself that
    what she had swallowed
    was not a big deal but her stomach continued to spasm. How she would
    handle the next load
    she didn't know.
    Shandra's naked ass hole stared at Pooch's face next. She was also going
    to shit.
    To Pooch this was an even more disgusting assault than Mark's. She was a
    woman on her
    period. Her ass smelled awful even before she shit. When her sphincter
    opened out flowed a
    loose, light brown mass that required almost no chewing. The shit just
    oozed out of
    Shandra's ample ass. It flowed like molasses out her hole and into
    Pooch's waiting mouth.
    The bitterness dried up any saliva that she left in her mouth. The only
    way that this river of
    shit moved down her throat was because she knew that if she didn't
    swallow she would be
    tortured to death. Pooch would have preferred red hot needles through
    her tits to this. The
    stream of urine that followed was almost a relief. The toilet paper that
    went into her mouth
    was also covered in menstrual juice. This coated Pooch's tongue in red.
    Desperately she
    tried to blank from her mind what she was doing in the hope of easing
    the distress in her
    stomach. If only her stomach wasn't so full.
    Garret was next to step up to the plate. As his naked bottom stared at
    Pooch's bottom he let
    go of a major fart. Nothing followed from his shit hole but a long
    stream of urine flowed
    from Garret's beer filled balder. The stream seemed to go on forever
    getting harder and
    harder for Pooch to swallow as her belly distended from all the
    excrement.
    Pooch kept remembering that if more than two people were going to
    defecate into her
    mouth she would be allowed to puck into a bucket to make room. How she
    needed that
    bucket. It didn't come. What did come was another stream of pee from
    Steve' dick. It
    brought Pooch to her physical limit. The end of his stream just lay in
    Pooch's mouth, there
    was just no room to swallow.
    Ed rested a large plastic bucket on the quivering slaves throbbing
    breasts. its lip resting just
    under her chin.
    "Go ahead", he said.
    Up came the most horrid mixture of chunky shit, liquid shit, piss and
    stomach acids. Ed's
    stomach turned as he caught a whiff of the odor that began to permeate
    the room. He felt
    sorry for the poor girl. Marla didn't.
    "That's enough", Marla said. "She's made enough room. Close the bucket
    before we all get
    sick".
    Ed dragged the edge of the bucket over Pooch's chin and lower lip
    scraping up some of the
    vomit that had landed there. He placed the lid back on the pail and
    quickly carried it out of
    the room.
    Jordan was in no rush to head over to the special chair. He really
    didn't have to go. The fact
    was that he just didn't want to deprive himself of this opportunity to
    defecate directly into a
    woman's mouth. Eventually his big black butt was parked over the slave
    girls face. Jordan
    strained to release his load.
    Pooch felt relieved after emptying most of her stomach's contents into
    the bucket though her
    stomach was still uneasy. There was the added misery from some of the
    vomit having
    entered her nose and sinuses. The awful fluid was all she could taste
    and smell.
    Jordan succeeded in only producing a small stool that Pooch managed to
    consume in a few
    swallows. The stream of urine that followed was far more copious, but
    the newly made
    space in her stomach handled it easily. Jordan's small deposit had saved
    Pooch's life.
    Only Greta remained. She pulled up her tight skirt, spread her
    magnificent cheeks apart with
    her hands and sat down. Her skin was clear and unblemished. The buttocks
    were
    simultaneously firm and yet soft and inviting. The luxuriant fur
    surrounding her sex begged
    to have someone's face nestled in it. Her brownie was small yet well
    defined and dark.
    Pooch couldn't understand what was going on inside of her. What she felt
    was not revulsion.
    as she looked up at the dominatrix's posterior, but eager anticipation.
    Was it because her
    ordeal was almost over, or was it something else.
    Greta's small puckered ass hole began to open up exposing the tip of a
    large, well formed
    chocolate brown turd. The slaves eager tongue came out to great it and
    help guide it past
    her eager lips into her mouth. As Greta squeezed of the first piece
    Pooch's lips extended out
    to surround it. Her tongue caressed the sides feeling the semi firm
    texture and tasting the
    sweet bitterness which was somehow no longer revolting. Pooch didn't
    even notice that her
    stomach had stopped churning. She did notice that all the awfulness of
    the previous deposits
    had been replaced by the taste of Greta. She was able to swallow her
    with no more difficulty
    than she would have had swallowing a banana.
    Greta mentioned to the audience that she believed in a high fiber diet
    so she generated turds
    that were very substantial. The load being ejected from her bottom
    seemed to go on and on
    more than making up for Jordan's small deposit. By the time she was
    finished Pooch's belly
    was once again filled. The stream of golden urine that followed once
    again brought Pooch to
    the bursting point only this time she felt satisfied instead of sick.
    Watching Greta clean
    herself with the toilet paper Pooch found herself wishing that she could
    perform the task
    herself using her own tongue.
    None of Pooch's behavior was lost on Marla.
    "Bailiff would you please hang the slut from the ceiling in the playroom
    while the jury
    deliberates it's decision. I don't want to take any chance of her
    escaping or killing herself",
    ordered Marla.

    --

    C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
  50. Are you a moderator? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Then waste some of your mod points on this post!

  51. Let me spell it out for you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    ...FUCK YOU!

  52. Amen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Redundant

    KDE and GNOME are both pretty foul. The trivial (and mostly imaginary) gains in productivity are not enough of a return for the lost performance.

  53. Re:Doesn't data aware widgets break the mvc paradi by Arandir · · Score: 2

    In OO design, you have the eternal war between cohesion and coupling. High cohesion is good (classes to only one thing). Low coupling is good (classes are independent). But high cohesion leads to high coupling, and vice versa.

    MVC is a good design and has a nice balance between cohesion and coupling. Unfortunately, like all good designs, templates and patterns, once you overlay it with a real application it's not so perfect anymore.

    Data aware widgets have high coupling. But in turn they get high cohesion. If that level of cohesion is desired (a component, for example), then there's not much you can do about it, MVC or otherwise.

    --
    A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
  54. I am a moderator with 5 IQ points by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I don't care about moderation guidelines, that's why I vote down Anonymous Cowards who are already at 0, instead of promoting interesting posts.

  55. Some Konqueror Updates Would Be Nice by mfearby · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Konqueror is much better than GMC IMHO, and more configurable than Nautilus, but some updates to the file-browser part of Konqueror would be nice. In particular, something emulating the functionality of Windoze's listview control would be nice. I hate having to view in large icon mode just to draw boxes around files to select them. When in detailed list view, selecting a file selects the whole row when it should ideally only select the filename in the first column.

    This might sound petty but this particular aspect when compared with Windoze Explorer makes the Konqueror file browser feel almost like winfile.exe when it comes to selecting files.

    Just my 2cents worth. I'm still going to use KDE regardless, though, because Nautilus is slow and has very few options for configuring it.

    1. Re:Some Konqueror Updates Would Be Nice by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 1

      I think this has been fixed in 2.2. I know it was fixed for at least one of the kinds of listviews.

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
  56. Tip: kdekillall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    kdekillall will kill kdeinit-spawned processes for you.

    1. Re:Tip: kdekillall by seann · · Score: 0

      killall kdeinit?

      --
      I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
  57. To laugh, or cry? by Jagasian · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Jesus H Christ! Microsoft truely is out of control and insane!

  58. Is it that, or they just don't have time... by Svartalf · · Score: 2

    After all, if there's sufficient differences, you're going to end up with two totally different versions of the app's source tree to maintain. I don't know about you, but I don't have that much time on my hands and I suspect that it's the same for them too.

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    1. Re:Is it that, or they just don't have time... by vlad_petric · · Score: 0

      I'm not criticizing the app developers, what I'm saying is that the kde libraries should allow for a greater degree of compatibility. Of course, everybody hates split dev branches, however compatibility can be insured in other ways (e.g. macros, polymorphism). The kernel people, for instance, managed to do a very good job as far as source-level compatibility is concerned (and think about the number of platforms supported and the kernel versions!)

      Now, that the Alpha is here, I think most of developers will start porting their apps to 3.0, and guess what, we'll have very few new app releases for 2.2.1 (not to mention the fact that most of the rpms of KDE apps that I download are difficult to install - dependencies are hard to satisfy and most of the time building the source rpm fails)

      My clear impression is that their is huge gap between the KDE itself and the apps developed for it. We really need more stability (compatibility) and less cool features in the future.

      --

      The Raven

  59. you're right, but use Afterstep by Penguinoflight · · Score: 1

    I've found for usability, Afterstep is the best. Before CmdrTaco had 1.5gigs of ram he used it :-) Afterstep is faster in my testing than blackbox, and it looks better/works better. I just don't like the lack of Afterstep support, but then again usually the elite are few.

    --
    "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
    1 John 4:14
  60. Here come the next minor releases of every distro by dsplat · · Score: 1

    A new release of KDE is probably enough to drive new minor releases for a lot of distros. So, what other widely used stuff is seeing a new release these days? The news about the StarOffice beta isn't even cold yet, so I expect we'll be seeing that.

    --
    The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
  61. Better desktop, better linux acceptance ... by ciupman · · Score: 1

    We are all geeks, who like to fiddle with bash and read slashdot, and, in my opinion, Kde is becoming the best bridge from windows to linux for those non-geeks, those that still need advanced classes on how to press the start button with the mouse.. Gnome is beautifull but it lacks some integration (at least some that is visible to the eye).. Kde is going in the right direction.

    "Use Lzip and find God"

    --
    I fuse with Mercer every single day...
  62. I run Woody without any problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And with apt's preferences file I can (and do) use Sid's KDE 2.2.1 packages on Woody.

  63. Usability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This list doesn't address usability problems in a way that lets the casual reader know if usability issues are being addressed. Its simply not possible from the list, yet as far as developers are conderned this is a very concrete definition of issues for KDE 3. But usability by casual user is probably the only real obstacle between Lunux & KDE and the desktops of of those users who care more about getting their job done than they do whether the desktop was free (as in free beer). GNOME faces the same obstacle. The next version of KDE should be based on usability surveys, such as Sun did with GNOME. Perhaps the KDE developers could get IBM to fund a study?

  64. That does not make sense! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
    In Johny Cochrane's voice:

    Ladies & gentlemen of this supposed jury, Chef's attorney would certainly believe that his client wrote 'Stinky Britches' 10 years ago, and they make a good case, hell I almost felt pity myself, but ladies & gentlemen of the supposed jury, I have one final thing that I want you to consider. Ladies & gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookie from the planet Kishu, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor.

    Now think about it... THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE! Why would a Wookie, an 8' tall Wookie want to live on Endor with a bunch of 2' tall Ewoks? THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE! But more importantly we have to ask ourselves, "What does this have to do with this case?". NOTHING! Ladies & gentlemen it has nothing to do with this case, IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

    Look at me, I'm a lawyer, defending a major record company and I'm talking about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies & gentlemen, I AM NOT MAKING ANY SENSE! None of this makes sense. And so you have to rememeber, when you're in that jury room, deliberating and conjugating the emancipation proclamation, does it make sense? NO! Ladies & gentlemen of this supposed jury it does not make sense.

    If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit. The defence rests.

  65. In a Tom Waits mood, huh? /nt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    .. .

    1. Re:In a Tom Waits mood, huh? /nt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try Velvet Underground, pud

      fucking philistine...

  66. :-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL!

  67. Thanks! by egg+troll · · Score: -1

    Thank you. I plan to spin off that whole VB thing into a troll of its own, but I've been awfully busy lately. It'll premire in a few days, unless the cockgnomes who run this site decide to bitchslap me again! I said goddamn I feel just like Huey and H. Rap somedays.

    --

    C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
  68. KDE. by digitaltraveller · · Score: 1

    I am a diehard KDE fan. I used to be a diehard gnome fan, before KDE 2.01. I will probably switch back and forth, as each desktop races ahead of the other. This competition is great, as everyone says. The problem though, and it's a huge problem is for those of us who program for KDE/GNOME. These are not just 2 user-space apps. They are part of the linux desktop infrastructure.

    Everyone prefers running programs that are native to their desktop environments toolkit. The problem is that quite often, there is a better program for the other desktop environment. I can't help but think that Linux would be the king of the desktop right now if it wasn't for all this duplicated effort.
    I put this question to Slashdotters:


    What can we do to resolve this?

    Here are a few of my ideas:

    -Wrappers for one toolkit's API is translated into the other toolkit's API. I _think_ KDE might already be doing this somewhat. I am not sure of the status.

    -A RAD tool, for both desktops. This would be awesome. Look at a great tool like glade. (glade rocks!) Imagine it could generate KDE/QT code as well. Then individual users could "make with-kde" or "make with-gnome".

    -Along the same lines, a library that wrapped both toolkits, eg an entirely new API.

    Anyone have any other suggestions?

    1. Re:KDE. by Jagasian · · Score: 2

      The main reason for two different APIs is because they are both, most likely, architectured completely differently from each other. One is OO while the other is procedural.

      A simple wrapper around one would only lead to a mess similar to Microsoft's MFC, which started out as a wrapper around old procedural windows APIs. Anyone who has used MFC knows the evils of such wrapper APIs.

    2. Re:KDE. by dwlemon · · Score: 1

      I really don't think you need to wrap the entire API or anything. So there are two sets of libraries on a system... big deal. One wonders how many versions of the UI exist on a windows XP box...

      the problem with adding a new meta-API is that developers no longer have two choices.. they would have three.

      Take a tool like Guppi (graphing utility) that can be plugged into a program and is used in Gnumeric/Gnucash.. If a tool like this could be shared between GNOME and KDE applications, it would do a lot to unify the projects. I guess the way to do this would be to wrap just the component architecture, and I'm assuming one of kparts or bonobo is a superset of the other and a wrap would be possible...

      But if not, I'm sure there is a lot that can be done in writing of tools like Guppi that would give them more flexibility in the types of programs that can use it.

      Take for instance the icon server which is a new part of KDE 3.0. I don't see why this couldn't be generalized and available for any app to use.. even GNOME apps.

      Making one toolkit look like another shouldn't be hard. I know GTK has a bitmap engine, QT probably does too... doesn't QT already load GTK themes?

      But the fact is that none of this will happen unless the people who actually write the code (not me) or one of the major distros like Red Hat decide to make it happen... at some point in time it might be bad for a distro to have to pick sides, so they'll plunk the two together and get 'em working nice.

    3. Re:KDE. by digitaltraveller · · Score: 1
      The main reason for two different APIs is because they are both, most likely, architectured completely differently from each other. One is OO while the other is procedural.


      Well if you've ever programmed with GTK+ you will note that it is just about as OO as you can get with the C language. Everything inherits from GTKObject. By using nested structs. Each struct includes the entire struct of it's base class.

      It all ends up being machine code in the end anyway, all I am saying is it would be nice to have a single unified API for KDE/GNOME.
  69. the tree and the forest by mj6798 · · Score: 1, Troll
    Microsoft is already technologically much more cutting edge than KDE: they are moving towards a safe, reflective runtime and a higher-level language with a built-in component model. KDE is still based on a language and runtime with virtually no built-in support for components.

    The forefront of desktop technology is happening with Java (OSX, pure Java) and C# (Windows); C and C++-based efforts are widely deployed (Windows, KDE, Gnome), but they are already falling behind.

    1. Re:the tree and the forest by JabberWokky · · Score: 4, Informative
      KDE is still based on a language and runtime with virtually no built-in support for components.

      You sir, are one of three things: ignorant, a troll, or an idiot. KDE is entirely built on components, and I can swap them in and out and upgrade them and advance functionality without upgrading the whole.

      Which brings up an important point - 3.0 should look just like the existing 2.2.1, with no new (user) features. The major number bumped up *because* of the component nature of KDE - the new version is the exact same (on the front end), but is binarily incompatable with 2.x. The back end gives advances that will allow the 3.x line to advance quickly on the front end.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    2. Re:the tree and the forest by mj6798 · · Score: 2
      KDE is built on components, but the language it is based on (C++) has no built-in support for components. You know, the kind of component support Microsoft built into C# based on many years experience with COM-like systems and their limitations.

      That means that it is a lot harder to build component-based applications in the KDE environment than in an environment based on a language that has such support.

      But, sadly, your response seems pretty typical of the KDE crowd: you don't even appreciate the issue and label anybody who disagrees with you a "troll".

    3. Re:the tree and the forest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gnome is built on objects, but the language it is based on (C) has no built-in support for objects. You know, the kind of object support Bjarne built into C++ based on many years experience with OO-like systems and their limitations.

      That means that it is a lot hard to build object-based applications in the Gnome environments than in an environment (KDE) based on a language that has such support.

    4. Re:the tree and the forest by GlowStars · · Score: 1

      Mod this AC's comment up - it's dead on!

    5. Re:the tree and the forest by ras · · Score: 1

      ... the kind of component support Microsoft built into C# ...



      The original post said "KDE is still based on a lanugage with no support built in for objects", without giving a creditible alternative to C++. Then you come along and suggest C# - a language that is not available on Linux yet! Give us a break.



      I am willing to bet that Microsoft produced C# as a response to Java, and more specifically Java's VM. Java's VM killed two birds with one stone - portability and security. An impressive acheivement. Notice that componentisation was not on the list. At the time Microsoft pushed ActiveX as an alternative - a component technology. It was haled as snake oil at the time. The snakes that later arose were Code Red/Nimda/SirCam/.....

    6. Re:the tree and the forest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re: Java.

      JavaBeans are a wonderful compnent artchtiecture. Interestingly, with The Qt/Java bridge, and QtAwt, and now native compiled Java via GCC, Java looks set to become an important part of KDE, too.

    7. Re:the tree and the forest by mj6798 · · Score: 2
      without giving a creditible alternative to C++. Then you come along and suggest C# - a language that is not available on Linux yet! [...] Notice that componentisation was not on the list [for Java].

      That may be your list. In fact, Java is succeeding so spectacularly because it makes reuse and componentization much easier than C++. And, yes, Microsoft copied Java for just that reason. Now, why is KDE still mucking around with C++?

  70. debian 2.3? by mikey13 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I thought they decided Woody was going to be 3.0.

    "The code name for the next major Debian release after
    potato is ``woody''. This release will be
    numbered ``3.0''."
    http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/

  71. it seems KDE is falling behind by mj6798 · · Score: 2
    Microsoft is moving to C#/CLR. Apple's latest desktop is based on Objective-C and Java. Objective-C, C#, and Java have compelling advantages for developing large, component based software systems, foremost reflection, garbage collection, and (for C# and Java) runtime safety. Yet, the KDE effort is still largely based on C++, with little indication that there is any move to a more powerful runtime and more high-level language.

    It's amazing how far KDE has gotten in a few years. But the industry is moving on to different technologies, technologies that greatly simplify applications programming. What is KDE doing?

    1. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft is moving to C#/CLR. Apple's latest desktop is based on Objective-C and Java. Objective-C, C#, and Java have compelling advantages for developing large, component based software systems, foremost reflection, garbage collection, and (for C# and Java) runtime safety. Yet, the Linux effort is still largely based on C, with little indication that there is any move to a more powerful runtime and more high-level language.

      It's amazing how far Linux has gotten in a few years. But the industry is moving on to different technologies, technologies that greatly simplify applications programming. What are Linus & co. doing?


      My point is, better programming languages don't necessarily make better code. (No comment about the relative merits of, say, C# vs C++.)

    2. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by AstynaxX · · Score: 2

      Simple!=better for everything. For something like an OS or the basic window interface, sometimes you need comething that lets you get a little down and dirty [which Java simply does not do, and from what I gather neither does C#]. Ease of code is fine and dandy, unless it translates into slower, buggier, clunkier programs. Sure, computing power is cheap these days, but even so, not all systems are GHz monsters with 512MB of DDR RAM and 80 gig HDs... have to pay attention to the lower end of the user pool, and make it a good experience for all [something I know Java is not good at]

      --
      -={(Astynax)}=-
      "Darkness beyond Twilight"
    3. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by Jagasian · · Score: 5, Informative

      Most of my expertise falls into software development in Java, but recently I have been pushing myself to do more C++ development on Linux. I don't want to rely on proprietary languages. Anyway, the modern C++ is far far different from the C++ of many years ago. Things have changed, and C++ is growing up. Sure its a very complex language, if you try to learn the legacy aspects of it, but if you stick to the core OO constructs in C++, then you have a nice efficient programming language.

      I am coming to realize that Java has very little over C++. Garbage Collection is more of a buzz word than an actual worthwhile feature, and it should be noted that high-level memory leaks are still possible in Java. Sure they are memory leaks of a different kind, but unreleased yet unused memory is a big problem in many large Java software systems.

      In addition, for even an intermediate software developer, how difficult is it to code your own destructors? I mean, really, at worst you have a few loops in a destructor. Anyway, most JVM garbage collectors are unpredictable and hog performance at the worst of times.

      The most important thing that Java has over C++ is a comprehensive set of user-friendly yet powerful APIs. But in return, C++ as templates and STL, allowing for elegant generic software systems.

      When it comes down to it, C/C++ are here to stay, until some real yet practical innovation in Functional Programming languages, mobile/concurrent languages, or Declarative Programming languages is made. I am all for newer better higher-level programming languages such as Haskell, Pict, Lolli, and Mozart-Oz, but Python, Ruby, C#, and other newer procedural/OO languages are not the revolution, they are not the future, and at best, they are nothing more than slight iterative improvements on an overused overdone, and over talked about paradigm.

      Give me C, give me C++, and if you can, why don't you give me something new for once? I am tired of the same old Ford Tempo with a new paint job and a new name.

    4. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by puetzk · · Score: 1

      One thing to keep in mind is that KDE *does* use these higher-level things, as QT's QObject's implement them. It may not be quite as slick as having them in the language, but QT's moc does a lot to alieviate the shortcomings of C++.

      --
      The Matrix is going down for reboot now! Stopping reality: OK. The system is halted.
    5. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by am+2k · · Score: 1
      I am coming to realize that Java has very little over C++.

      What about a true dynamic runtime? In C++, you can't call a method when you don't have a pointer to it inside the vtable (some folks even confuse them with functions because of that fact). That gets you a speedy app, but many things (like EOF) are just not possible.

    6. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by Karellen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What's so great about a CLR???

      All it does is allow you to "compile" your source into a more obfuscated form of source that no-one can read but you can ship off to any other computer where it will get compiled for real (usually JIT - which is IMO more like a cached interpreter, but that's just semantics) before being run.

      All a CLR allows you to do is obfuscate your source a lot. We don't bother. Just ship the real source and allow someone to compile it themselves.

      CLRs are just a klunky workaround for people who feel a need to hide their source for whatever reason.

      --
      Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
    7. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by mikael · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The most important thing that Java has over C++ is a comprehensive set of user-friendly yet powerful APIs. But in return, C++ as templates and STL, allowing for elegant generic software systems.

      The thing is for normal application development you'll need the normal APIs provided by Java. Take for instance the way of creating a socket. In C++ you'll have to use the C-Unix API. This does not look good and is definately not OO. With Java, you'll just create a new DatagramSocket. But with QT that is changing. QSocket provides a TCP-socket.

      I think that QT is providing some of the missing features to C++.

      Mikael

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    8. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by mj6798 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Let me just counter a few of your misconceptions:
      • The purpose of garbage collection isn't to eliminate memory leaks, it is to enable runtime safety (important when building software from lots of components).
      • Destructors or reference counting in C++ are not substitutes for garbage collection because they don't accomplish the two things garbage collection accomplishes: runtime safety and factoring resource management out of interfaces.
      • Reference counting or manual storage management are neither cheap nor predictable.
      • The similarity between Java and C++ is mostly syntax; in terms of semantics, the languages are very different.
      • C/C++ lack reflection and runtime safety, both of which are very important features for building large, reliable software systems from components. You can emulate reflection and try to substitute testing for runtime safety, but it's a lot more work.

      I should note that I have used C++ since before cfront was released to the public, and I think C++ is a great language a number of specific purposes. Smart people can craft very efficient software and debug it in C++. But for getting a job done quickly, for working in large groups with people with different kinds of backgrounds, and for building reliable software from lots of components that are composed at runtime, Java and languages like it are simply better in my experience. And Microsoft, Apple, and many other companies seem to have drawn the same conclusion.

    9. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are right. In the long term compiled languages will have no future, and the advantages of intermediate languages are huge. But don't expect the slashdot crowd to understand you. They still hate java because it was slow a few years ago.

      One thing to note is that Qt has all the features you would expect from a modern language. There is even introspection via QObject hack. So it should be possible to port almost every Qt or KDE application to a really modern language like C# or managed C++.

      I really hope the Qt people will move in that direction in the future. Maybe when the mono project makes progess.

    10. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by Androgynous+Howard · · Score: 1

      You are right.

      It would be very nice to have a platform-independent intermediate binary format for KDE/Qt. That way you would have one application binary for all KDE compatible systems, instead of having hundreds of different binaries for i386 glibc 2.1, i386 glibc 2.2, Solaris, AIX etc.
      Garbage Collection would also be nice, but the main advantage is IMHO the platform-independent binaries. Another huge advantage of using CLR would be to be able to program in many different programming languages without waiting for language bindings.

      Open source advocates will say at this point that there is no need for an intermediate binary format because we have the source, but they are missing the point. Joe Sixpack users don't want to do ./configure --prefix=whatever && make && make install every time they install a new application. It is simply not an option for them! And even if there were an installer program to hide this complexity, compiling a program from source takes much more time than compiling it from bytecode.

      But one thing to keep in mind is that Qt is a very successful commercial cross-platform library, and the fine people at TrollTech will only consider moving to a more powerful runtime when this runtime becomes available on almost all their target platforms (Windows, OS X, Linux, various commercial UNIXe).

      I really hope that the mono project or some other project will succeed in making a CLR available on most UNIX machines. Then it would be possible to port Qt and KDE to C# or managed C++ without making big changes to the program logic. Maybe it would even be possible to automate parts of the process.

      regards,

      Androgynous Howard

    11. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by Jagasian · · Score: 2

      Exactly! That was my implied point. Java has a better (more modern, more complete) standard API compared to C++, and therefore, it is not KDE's job to change or augment the C++ language, or to replace C++ with another slightly better language. KDE exists so as to create a comprehensive platform API similar to the one available for Java. In fact, this is exactly what KDE has been doing all along. KDE's API isn't just about widgets. It is about modernizing the Unix API for Object-Oriented software development of interactive desktop applications.

      The question is, "will it succeed?" I claim that KDE is already succeeding in regards to modernizing the Unix API. There is more to be done, but I know that it will continue to succeed for two main reasons: First, it is open, and second, it has lots of initial momentum behind it because of the genius of its originators. It is the same two-part recipe for success that Linus used to bring the Linux kernel from just another pipe-dream to an industrial strength Unix kernel.

      Note that I am not implying that the original standard Posix APIs should be replaced. However, it is very important that another layer can be added ontop of the traditional Unix layer, so as to modernize Unix and bring it to the desktop.

    12. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by Snootch · · Score: 1

      But don't expect the slashdot crowd to understand you. They still hate java because it was slow a few years ago.

      Now that was a nasty insult, as if a large proportion of /. readers were not familiar with languages like Java. That and deliberately waving the red flag by conspicuously not mentioning Java indicates that this may be a troll, but there is enough reason in there to be rebutted, so here goes:

      Java is still slow. Yes, it's got brilliant portability, but it still uses an order of magnitude more resources than natively compiled code, and as KDE is already getting a lot of criticism for getting bloated, I don't think Java/C# would help at all. Bytecode languages have their uses, and I'm a great fan of them (well, Java at least), but it's not yet ready to replace the native code that does low-level GUI or console stuff.

      Bytecode is a great idea, but it has its limits as regards efficiency, and this is (for now) one of them.

    13. Re:it seems KDE is falling behind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Objective-C does not rely on garbage collection, especially not the framework Apple uses: OpenStep.
      There are certainly compilers that support garbage collection with Objective-C, but none of the frameworks are intended for use with it.

  72. Linux Windowing Environments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What Linux windowing environment is the most popular right now? Is it KDE, Gnome, or another? If there is a poll somewhere on the net that someone knows, please post it for me. Thanks.

  73. +5 Informative! by Flarners · · Score: -1

    Not everyone here might natively speak English or another Latin script, you know. The parent post could be invaluable to those English débutantes trying to get their footing in a strange new language.

    --
    "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for 'entrepeneur'." -George W. Bush
  74. Mod this up, it's true. by SaDan · · Score: 1

    Sheesh... Come on, moderators!

  75. In case you read the announcement by mnordstr · · Score: 1

    KDE 3.0 is scheduled for its first beta release this December and for final release in late February 2001

    Is supposed to say February 2002...

  76. There is no comparison - KDE is superior. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    KDE has what GNOME hopes to one day achieve - a truly integrated desktop environment.

    The GNOME folks seem to be making good progress, but certain projects in particular seem to be holding them back. Adopting StarOffice as the default office suite instead of AbiWord/Gnumeric/ etc. Adopting Mozilla, which although is a great browser, has been a day late and a dollar short. Adopting Nautilus, which is a useless buggy piece of crap.

    GNOME still can't claim to have an integrated set of stable productivity apps. KDE can.

  77. "Gnome vs. KDE" by Fenris+Ulf · · Score: 1
    I've always thought this Gnome vs. KDE thing was about as dumb as vi vs. emacs.

    No, it's worse than that, it's about as dumb as 'vim' vs. 'nvi'.

    In reality Gnome and KDE developers are not at war, in fact they've actually been known to be civil to each other! Hard to believe, I know...

  78. Huh?? by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 3, Informative
    Why on earth would the KDE team move from a flexible, well known, openly standardized multiparadigm language to one that is closed, monoparadigm, and barely out of the gates????

    KDE should consider using a interpreted language for desktop productivity apps exactly one year after Microsoft does. Try again in 2005.

    1. Re:Huh?? by MSG · · Score: 2

      Microsoft already does use an interpereted language for their "desktop productivity apps", and has for quite some time. Most of MS Office is written in Visual Basic.

    2. Re:Huh?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you actually believe that?

    3. Re:Huh?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a previous posted said, there are three possibilities. He is either an idiot, ignorant, or a Troll.

  79. Rock Solid...hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have never found KDE to be solid. Lost assignments... Constant Kword crashes.... It's about time you KDE people put some effort into stability. However, gnome is not much better as far as word processors go. I will not be going back to KDE until I can have some faith that it won't crash every 5 minutes.

  80. Re:Flamebait---- That stuff works! by CajunArson · · Score: 1

    Well I'll be damned, but the stuff compiled and installed without a hitch!

    Now I have almost all the eye candy that the OS X guys have been yelling about, without having to use OS X ;)

    I'd post a screenshot for everybody, but the slashdot effect could get me in too much trouble.....

    --
    AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
  81. Just wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oll korrect, a piece of flaimbait.

    When Microsoft turn their heads, yes they are a plenty, development speed will slow down.

    They will halt development in delaying negociations, murmuring through plannings, and belittle the standards.

    All while perfecting the public relations on prime time tv.

  82. Re:KDE. aRts ? by loopkin · · Score: 1

    I like this idea a lot !

    But, close to that, here is my $ 10 000 000 multipart question:
    why does KDE use aRts instead of esd, from the very beginning ? every application outta here uses esd, and especially commercial ones (flash, realplayer, etc.) ? why is aRts such an unstable thing (was leaking memory like hell in 2.2) ? why isn't aRts esd-compliant ?

    someone has any answer ? :-))

  83. Rock solid? by poing · · Score: 1

    Rock solid as 2.2.1? I'm running 2.2.1 stable on Xfree 4.10 / Kernel 2.4.10 and Konqueror is not stable at all - Try looking at local directories in tree mode, then select a few and move them around between different windows by dragging, segfaults all the time. Also happens sometimes when selecting several directories to delete at once. I have also experienced some segfaults while browsing websites which I don't recall the 2.0 ever doing. I hope they improve stability too cos this is getting a bit like Windows...

  84. Objprelink? WAS:Re:Rock solid? by anno1602 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sounds like my probloems when I used onjprelink to compile kde and qt. Much faster app and kde starts, but unfortunately a little unstable. W/the SuSE RPMS that don't use onjprelink, KDE 2.2.1 is a bit slower (though still faster than any other 2.x) and rock-stable.

    Greets,

    Anno.

    1. Re:Objprelink? WAS:Re:Rock solid? by ksp · · Score: 1

      I run KDE 2.2.1 on SuSE and I can just agree that it feels very stable. Faster than 2.1 too.

      --
      What is the sound of one hand clapping?
      cat /dev/null > /dev/audio
  85. Java Garbage Collection vs. C++ destructors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    For the record, Java garbage collection is absolutely not cheap nor predictable - and it blocks ALL threads while it collects. Java finalizers are only good to reclaim memory resources (and most expert Java books say not to use them at all for all the trouble they cause when you reference other objects inside finalizers). C++'s destructors, on the other hand, reclaim both memory and non-memory resources like file descriptors, graphics contexts - you name it. To accomplish this in Java you have to turn your code inside out and let the USER of your library wrap your code inside a try-finally block and call in the finally block whatever home-grown ResourceRelease()/close() function for your class - i.e., the object encapsulation breaks down in Java for resource reclamation.

    1. Re:Java Garbage Collection vs. C++ destructors by ras · · Score: 1

      This is an obviously correct and informated reply to the previous post. I guess the person who modded it down is a little wet behind the ears.

      The orignal poster is correct, the primary advantage of garbage collection is run time saftey. A secondary advantage is convienence. These are two big wins. But in all other ways it looses out. It is slower, the run time of a program that uses it becomes less predictable, and because it blurs the point at which an object is destructed releasing other resources (like files) becomes problematic.

      Oh, and C++ has had reflection (aka RTI) for some years. It is an add on - just like it is for Java.

    2. Re:Java Garbage Collection vs. C++ destructors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C++'s RTTI is pretty weak.

    3. Re:Java Garbage Collection vs. C++ destructors by mj6798 · · Score: 2
      [GC] is slower,

      Not at all. On some problems, manual storage management is faster, on many GC is faster.

      the run time of a program that uses it becomes less predictable,

      The only real-time, predictable dynamic memory management systems I have ever seen have been based on garbage collection. Theoretically, it's possible to implement real-time, predictable manual storage allocators, but nobody ever seems to.

      and because it blurs the point at which an object is destructed releasing other resources (like files) becomes problematic.

      Resources whose release has externally visible effects should be released manually, with safety checks. Unreferenced memory is a special case because it can be freed without any effect on the program and because checking access to it is too expensive.

      Oh, and C++ has had reflection (aka RTI) for some years. It is an add on - just like it is for Java

      C++ RTTI only gives you "instanceof". Java reflection gives you access to fields and methods (and it's not an "add on").

  86. Features.. by steveargonman · · Score: 1

    ...bi-directional language support (for languages such as Arabic and Hebrew), multi-monitor (Xinerama and multi-screen) support..

    Good thing Arabic is there, that might be needed to crack these terrorist manifests.

  87. KDE on MacOS X / Darwin ? by pedroziviani · · Score: 1

    I'm a long time Linux user, but I've been using MacOS X for the last month and I must say I'm very happy with it, it's a quite impressive system. I can run XFree on it, and Gnome and most GTK+ apps on top of that, and even QT works well. Now, why not KDE?? QT works fine on XDarwin and so do most pure QT apps, and most of the GNU tools such as compilers and linkers.

    Fink's (excelent UNIX Package manager for OS X) homepage says:
    "KDE assumes it can do things with shared libraries that are only possible on ELF systems like Linux, *BSD and Solaris".

    I'd like to see KDE developers working on whatever minor changes are required to make KDE apps run on XFree over MacOS X, so that I can use Konqui, KOffice and other tools without having to boot into LinuxPPC. Apple is now the world's largest supplier of Unix-based operating systems, and and by supporting those systems KDE could considerably expand it's market share.

  88. YHBT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    HAND

  89. KDE natively under windows? by /ASCII · · Score: 1

    I'm curious: Would it be possible to use KDE natively as the WM on Windows, seeing how QT is available under windows? I seem to remember someone porting afterstep to windows so it IS possible to change windows wm. There is a link on the cygwin/xfree86-page about running KDE as an app under windows, but they use xfree86, I would like the possibility to use KDE as the only windowmanager under windows, using the native windows-version of QT.

    Any comments/links/insults?

    --
    Try out fish, the friendly interactive shell.
  90. Wheee! by egg+troll · · Score: -1

    Someone always bites.

    YHBT. YHL. HAND.

    --

    C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
  91. quite right by mj6798 · · Score: 2

    Yes, I fully agree with both your premise and your conclusion: it is a lot harder to build object-based applications in the Gnome environment than in KDE. And your point is?

  92. Apple the largest supported unix operating system? by HanzoSan · · Score: 1



    OSX just came out, most Apple supporters still use OS9, OSX has no software support (even worse than Linux) poor hardware support (worse than linux)

    Basically OSX is freeBSD, and FreeBSD is not the most supported Unix. Solaris is, and then Linux. FreeBSD is actually the least supported flavor with something like 0.1 percent.

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  93. Thats Bullshit Nautilus is slow as hell by HanzoSan · · Score: 1


    Nautilus takes a full 5 seconds to load, I'm using a SCSI Cheetah State of the art harddrive with 256 megs of ram and Nautilus is the slowest loading program on my machine.

    I could load Mozilla 3 times in the time nautilus takes to load.

    I must admit, it does take Konq a f
    New seconds less to load than nautilus making Konq slow as hell too, but its certainly fast enough when compared to the speed to power ratio.

    Konq is as powerful if not more powerful than nautilus, and it loads at the same speed or faster,
    in terms of speed I think they could increase speed via caching and Konq would load instantly because it would load with KDE itself.

    Really, I have the harddrive speed to spare, the reason Nautilus loads slow is because they didnt do a good job caching it.

    Nautilus 1.5 is about the come out, Its going to be as fast as Konq now and has vector based icons, Finally its BETTER than Konq however, Even if its better, they spent 15 million dollars on this?! A file manager?

    I'm still disapointed in Eazel AND in Gnome, both had shitloads of money, and just burned right through it, I suppose the money was being used to buy fancy chairs and coffee machines for the programmers.

    I see it this way, Nautilus needs money, Setup a Nautilus foundation SEPERATE of KDE, have slashdot post up an article with an interview called "save the Linux Desktop" where a nautilus programmer tells exactly why Eazel went down, and then tells of the plans they currrently have, and then allow US to pay say a fee of $5 a month to save the Linux Desktop, Take a page from transgaming. I mean afterall if Linux on the desktop is really so important, Then people will be willing to pay $5 for a few months, i bet people pay more than that subcribing to get the latest Beta CDs from Mandrake or redhat.

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