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Listen To Woz, And Perhaps Type Madly

Shawn King of The Mac Show Live talked a few days ago with Apple co-founder and knowledge-omnivore Steve (The Woz) Wozniak. Shawn graciously agreed to post the interview, formerly Quicktime only (downloadable or streaming), as an MP3 file -- so now most anyone can listen. This is an interview worth listening to: Woz talks about his lifelong motivations, his years with Apple (up to the present), OS X, the Newton, and what the future holds for him. He also talks about building TV jammers and the only prank he got caught for in high school, one which might not fly so well right now. (The interview starts about 55 minutes into the show, and lasts for nearly an hour.) What's this got to do with typing madly? Well, since Shawn's program is all-audio (no pictures, and only the barest explanitory text), it's a lot less useful to those on text-only or just-plain-slow links than it could be. Read on below for your chance to change that with just a few minutes of your time. Update: 10/20 20:43 GMT by T : Thanks to everyone who's volunteered to transcribe, and to the several alternates who are already in line! No need for more voluneers right now :)

Transcribing an hour of text takes a long time. But if you (yes, you!) are willing to transcribe a 3-minute (well. 3:15) chunk of this interview, I will spend my putative day off gluing chunks of interview together. Shoot me an email with "WozScript" in the subject if you'd like to participate, and I'll give the first volunteers (it shouldn't take that many) a randomly-drawn three-minute segment to type up, as well as more instructions on how to format it. No compensation except your name in lights, and the knowledge that lynx users everywhere appreciate your efforts. I'll update this story if and when the transcription is complete. (And if anyone can suggest a good Quicktime audio --> .ogg converter, Shawn and I would both appreciate it.)

170 comments

  1. Suggestions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative


    A) Go from the mp3 to a high-quality ogg file. There are plenty of mp3-->ogg converters. And don't bitch about the quality, it's a freaking interview, notMozart.

    B) On a related note, this would be a fascinating job for a text-to-speech editor. I say, slap the
    entire interview through one, and then just edit. I'll bet it takes less than half the time.

    1. Re:Suggestions by damiam · · Score: 4, Informative

      Use Qucktime Pro, export to a .wav file, then encode the .wav as an ogg.
      Or, if you're looking for an open source solution, try using Quicktime for XMMS or other Quicktime players for Linux, redirecting the sound to a .wav file, and then encoding into Ogg.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    2. Re:Suggestions by btellier · · Score: 1

      The Wreck-A-Nice-Beach programs of today can't keep up with the hip jive of today's hep modern computer cats like Woz 'n' the Funky Bunch.

    3. Re:Suggestions by All+sporks+are+fags · · Score: 0

      Quicktime for Linux has some serious problems, at least when it's running on an 80x86 computer.

    4. Re:Suggestions by ^me^ · · Score: 0

      Yep. It's not Mozart. It's WozArt. :-D

      --
      No one ever says, 'I can't read that ASCII E-mail you sent me.'
    5. Re:Suggestions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Warning - above is goatsex link.

    6. Re:Suggestions by austad · · Score: 2

      A) Go from the mp3 to a high-quality ogg file. There are plenty of mp3-->ogg converters. And don't bitch about the quality, it's a freaking interview, notMozart.

      I don't know how many times I have to tell people this, converting from one lossy format to another only makes it worse, even if the new format is superior. mp3->ogg converters = devil. Don't use them. Convert from the high quality source, not a lossy compressed copy.

      --
      Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
    7. Re:Suggestions by zoorro · · Score: 1

      MacAmp does it in one-step process with QuickTime and Ogg Encoder plugins installed

  2. Quicktime audio -- .ogg converter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why?

    Didn't you just post a link to the MP3 version?

    MP3 -> Ogg should be trivial!

  3. .ogg support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is in Audion, but I'm not usre if it can QT -> ogg.

  4. This guy has vision by CmdrTroll · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I've always been impressed with Steve Wozniak - ever since I was a kid. I remember reading his autobiography several years ago, and he was frighteningly accurate in predicting many of the trends that have since hit the PC industry.

    I found it interesting that in this interview, he acknowledges that the industry has shifted to cheap, commodity hardware and that Apple continues to suffer from it - but he was absolutely correct in pointing out that blind brand loyalty by "artsy types" was keeping them in business. Though Steve's strengths are obviously technical in nature, he possesses an innate understanding of a lot of issues on the business side of things that helped to keep him ahead of the curve.

    -CT

    1. Re:This guy has vision by onetrueking · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I find it annoying that you think that just because a person is "artsy" that he doesn't know which computer is best for him/her. The reason Apple sells computers to these folks, (the people who write your books and movies, and design your graphics and webpages) is because they know that there time is better spent being creative and not dealing with upgrades and diagnostics and all the things Windows and Linux users have to deal with. Just because people are "artsy" doesn't mean that they're stupid.

    2. Re:This guy has vision by linzeal · · Score: 0
      um, blind brand loyalty !=stupid.

      One of my dearest HS friends wouldn't touch a ford to save his life and drives chevrolet trucks exclusively that does not make him stupid.

      I mean there are tons of christians out there with blind faith and that does not make them "stupid" either.

    3. Re:This guy has vision by phillymjs · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ...but he was absolutely correct in pointing out that blind brand loyalty by "artsy types" was keeping them in business.

      I'm not an "artsy" type in the least. I'm a system integrator. After a long day of work fixing the piece of shit that is Windows, for unappreciative clients that get mad at me because the software they chose is constantly getting fucked up, I want to come home, sit down, and use a computer that works right all the time. As long as Apple continues to make computers that fit that criteria, I will be loyal to them.

      Once a month I rebuild my desktop, and I run Norton Disk Doctor quarterly as preventative maintenance. A virus? What's that? I saw one once on my Mac, in 1992. (MDEF, IIRC, a non-malicious virus that could be removed by a desktop rebuild).

      Being artsy or not has little to do with why people choose Macs.

      ~Philly

    4. Re:This guy has vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stupid in as much as they are blindly loyal. It might not be an overall measure of their intelligence, but it still is a measure in one particular area (product evaluation, perhaps? dunno).

    5. Re:This guy has vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That really depends on who you ask

    6. Re:This guy has vision by AragornSonOfArathorn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I second this... I am a student (not for long, though... done in December! hell yeah) and for years I've been a PC guy, but then one day last year I just got sick of dealing with Windows crap after my PC died. (I have and still do use Linux but that can be a pain too) and bought a G4 tower and put OS X on it. (I never would have gone to the Other Side if it wasn't for OS X... I'm not a a huge fan of Mac OS < OSX, I need/prefer UNIX) I now also have a PowerBook G4 (bought a few weeks before Apple introduced the new PBG4s... should have checked those Mac rumor sites more carefully... D'oh! Oh well, not a big deal) and I love how everything "Just Works", even X windows when installed via fink and combined with OroborOSX windowmanager... Just my 2 cents, sorry if this is a little incomprehensible, I haven't had enough coffee yet today :-)

      --
      sudo eat my shorts
    7. Re:This guy has vision by Apreche · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The guy never said that only artsy people buy macs. Nor did he say that that artsy people don't know about computers. You are putting words in his mouth. The truth is that Macintosh comptuers and their operating system are extremely pretty. The one thing that macs do better than every other computer is 2d graphics and audio/video editing. Those are the things that artsy beatnik type people do with their computers. They buy macs not because they are stupid but because they know that this computer excels at the applications they use the most.
      And the fact of the matter is that the mac is only still alive because it is really good at 2d graphics and audio/video editing. If it wasn't, then it wouldn't be around.

      --
      The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    8. Re:This guy has vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I come home to Mac too, but it crashes several times per evening.

    9. Re:This guy has vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I mean there are tons of christians out there with blind faith and that does not make them "stupid" either.
      You need some work coming up with your metaphores. Brand loyalty != stupid is an OK statement. But your metaphors does nothing to prove the point, rather the opposite.


      If you ask me, Christians(or muslims for that sake) with blind faith are not stupid, but they are ignorant, which is a bigger sin in my eyes.
      The only redeeming factor for someone following a religion in my eyes are people who tell them selves: "This is all bullshit, but I'll join this group because they do dome good work for humanity".
      Any other reasons for adhering to a religion is hypocricy or stupidity.


      Brand loyalty is driven by may factors: fear of the unknown, habit, repetition of a good experience, heavy marketing, following of the herd, lack of imagination, lack of knowledge.

    10. Re:This guy has vision by Eric7676 · · Score: 1

      I agree with Philly. I'm a Win2K MCSE, and I put up with Microsoft shit all day to earn a paycheck. The last thing I want to do when I get home is use Windows again. At home I have a dual 800 G4 that kicks ass. Sure, I have Virtual PC and a cheap PC clone as well, but I rarely need to use them. With OS X, my Mac never crashes and is a truly multi-processor system. Oh, and I'm not an "artsy" type, I just like to see computing innovation...not much of that going on in the Microsoft world.

    11. Re:This guy has vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe it'd be a little more comprehensible if you didn't use that shitty font, fag.

    12. Re:This guy has vision by DavidRavenMoon · · Score: 1
      Ok, I AM an "artsy" type. I use Macs. But I also know about computers,and run various OS's on my Macs (LinuxPPC, NT 4 [under VirtualPC] and I used to run Be OS...)

      I started on a PC, but I switched to using a Mac because: a) he business I work in (publishing and music) uses Macs, and b) after I started using them I saw that they really do this stuff better.

      Plus they are very "artsy" computers, and with OS X I get to be artsy and geeky ;-)

      --
      -- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
    13. Re:This guy has vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Rebuild your desktop??" What the fuck is that about?? Some kind of screwy kludge? How come I don't have to do that on Linux?

    14. Re:This guy has vision by j-beda · · Score: 1
      If you ask me, Christians (or muslims for that sake) with blind faith are not stupid, but they are ignorant, which is a bigger sin in my eyes.

      Well, "ignorance" can be cured, while stupidity is probably more difficult to deal with.

      I suspect that the orignial writer meant to say something more in line with "strong faith" rather than "blind faith". There are certainly many many intelligent people with strong faiths in any number of religious traditions. Just because others may think the dogma of any one religion "bullshit", does not necessarily make it so.

      I will agree that the use of religious faith as an example was probably one of the least effective ones to come up with however.

  5. Woz on Digital Village Radio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Woz was on Digital Village last week for the full hour. A good interview, especially his thoughts about M$.

  6. Speech to text recognition by Spootnik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Transcribing an hour of text takes a long time. But if you (yes, you!) are willing to transcribe a 3-minute (well. 3:15) chunk of this interview, I will spend my putative day off gluing chunks of interview together."

    Which bring the question. What are the alternatives for a voice recognition application that sould take a sound sample and convert it to text? Sort of like OCR (Optical Character Recognition) softwares does with a scanned image?

    1. Re:Speech to text recognition by Phroggy · · Score: 2

      From what little I know, dictation software requires you to speak calmly, clearly, and not too fast. So, it wouldn't work too well on a pre-recorded presentation.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    2. Re:Speech to text recognition by aka-ed · · Score: 1

      I can't think of a single voice recognition app that can't send audio input to a text file. Try this.

      --
      I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
    3. Re:Speech to text recognition by rcs2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      However, it does not have to operate in real time, so could it be just as (or even more) accurate as dictation software? Could you make up for crappy quality with longer analysis time?

      --
      This is not a signature.
    4. Re:Speech to text recognition by Evro · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Summer 2000 I worked for a company that was testing some software from IBM based on their ViaVoice voice recognition software that would allow you to feed in an mpeg (video or audio) stream and the program would output a transcript of it. Honestly it was pretty bad at the time, but that was a long time ago and I don't have any idea what kind of progress has been made since then. It also had some other features like taking snapshots of the video and indexing them to the text and all sorts of cool stuff.

      Ahh, here it is: It's called CueVideo and it's aimed at Multimedia indexing: http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/cuevideo/

      ---

      Here's an almost unrelated article: http://www-4.ibm.com/software/speech/news/20000825 -iw.html

      http://www.acm.org/sigs/sigmm/MM98/electronic_proc eedings/ponceleon/

      --
      rooooar
    5. Re:Speech to text recognition by Anthony+Boyd · · Score: 2
      It's called CueVideo

      Shouldn't that be Cue::Video?

    6. Re:Speech to text recognition by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it could be done, but the software would have to be designed for that, rather than being designed for real-time dictation. So, does the software exist? I don't think so. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  7. Quicktime - wav - ogg by dvdeug · · Score: 2

    Or from Quicktime to wav to ogg.

  8. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by MissMyNewton · · Score: 1

    *sigh*

    Are these comments trolls? Or are people just uninformed?

    The answer is: whenever you plug in the multibutton mouse of your choice.

    I'm using a cordless optical Logitech mouse that doesn't even "support" Mac in OS X 10.1, and the scroller scrolls and the second button brings up contextual menus.

    --MMN

    --

    ---

    Information wants...you to shut your pie hole.

  9. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by BOFslime · · Score: 1, Informative

    interstingly.. though off toppic.. OS X nativly supports 3 button scroll wheel mice.

    mmm... contextual menus..

  10. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just as soon as you get your ass to the store to buy a multi-button usb mouse

  11. Re:Lynx users everywhere... by hackerhue · · Score: 2, Funny

    And deaf users should get with the program and install a new pair of ears, right?

    Text is good because nearly everyone can use it one way or another.

    --

    To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than three persons, two of them absent.

  12. Time index of interview by cDarwin · · Score: 5, Informative

    The interview with Woz starts at T = 55:27

    --

    --
    Socrates was asked where he was from. He replied not "Athens," but "The world."

  13. Re:Lynx users everywhere... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oh so blind users should isntall a new pair of eyes then?

  14. Good Idea, But... by Hacker+Cracker · · Score: 0, Troll

    I would gladly give you a 3:15 chunk of my time, but it's not going to do any good without knowing exactly what chunk to do. We need a list of what's being worked on so we don't end up with say, 1,000 copies of the first/last ten minutes!

    Shouldn't be that hard to put up a dynamic page that shows what still needs to be transcribed...

    -- Shamus

    Bleah!

    1. Re:Good Idea, But... by Hacker+Cracker · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Jeez, you'd think I would have taken the time to read the damn post...

      Never mind...

      -- Shamus

    2. Re:Good Idea, But... by sulli · · Score: 1
      RTFA:

      Shoot me an email with "WozScript" in the subject if you'd like to participate, and I'll give the first volunteers (it shouldn't take that many) a randomly-drawn three-minute segment to type up, as well as more instructions on how to format it.

      --

      sulli
      RTFJ.
  15. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Serious question, because I don't know the answer. If you don't like the one-button Apple mice, can you order your Mac without one, or are you stuck paying for it anyway? (Thereby forcing you to have to buy *two* mice for each system you own.) If Apple doesn't give you a choice in the matter, I think people are totally correct to express their frustration on the matter, and especially with high prices that Apple is already charging them.

  16. Re:Lynx users everywhere... by hackerhue · · Score: 1

    So you've never heard of Braille, or text-to-speach, then?

    --

    To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than three persons, two of them absent.

  17. How about algorithmic voice transcription? by Knobby · · Score: 5, Funny

    I thought we were suppsed to be geeks? Come on guys. Transcribing an hour of audio into text should take one line to fire up a voice recognition code, and no more time than the wall time required to listen to the interview..

    There's a huge group of people hear who would love to see a free variant of *NIX that can compete with windows for the desktop market. I think that before this happens you're going to need to sit down, spend some time in your local technical library researching voice, image, pattern recognition algorithms.. I'd love to be able to type:

    voice2text -mp3 woz.mp3 woz_interview.text
    and get a transcribed version of a speech, or lecture notes.. How about combining this with an answering machine app to record and transcribe messages then send those messages to the IMAP server or atleast place them in a searchable database for future reference..

    This is way off-topic but it's something I started thinking about when rumors bagan floating around concerning Apple's iPhoto app.. I thought it would be pretty incredible if Apple could piece together an app to project photos onto an empirical basis set and then use the coefficients from that projection to sort images.. Think of it like a generalized face recognition routine only more useful..

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that gnome and kde are nice, but to take over the desktop market you we really need to crawl out of the box, and burn it to the ground!

    1. Re:How about algorithmic voice transcription? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are limits to what a person will do when they know they aren't going to get paid for it.

    2. Re:How about algorithmic voice transcription? by Shabazz+Rabbinowitz · · Score: 2, Funny
      Anonymous Coward on 03:39 PM October 20th, 2001:

      "There are limits to what a person will do when they know they aren't going to get paid for it." Like create an OS, perhaps?

    3. Re:How about algorithmic voice transcription? by Knobby · · Score: 2

      What?

      I'm confused? No one will develop an OS unless they can make money on it, right? No one will bother workng on something as mundane as office software unless they can make money on it, right?.. Wrong! And not only are you wrong, but your arguement is irrelevant because what I'm talking about is something that could be very interesting (the kind of thing some people enjoy studying as hobbies) and useful (think reporter, folklorists, historians, etc)...

    4. Re:How about algorithmic voice transcription? by jonesvery · · Score: 1

      I think that before this happens you're going to need to sit down, spend some time in your local technical library researching voice, image, pattern recognition algorithms.. I'd love to be able to type:

      [...]
      I'd love to be able to type:

      voice2text -mp3 woz.mp3 woz_interview.text and get a transcribed version of a speech, or lecture notes..

      I'd love that too, but I also think that it's going to take a *lot* of time and reasearch before voice2text even gets to the alpha stage...the last time I checked, speech recognition was still a buggy proposition at the best of times. Most solutions required a significant amount of "training" with the user who's speech they are to recognize -- a pretty large step away from recognizing, interpreting, and correctly attributing the speech of two (or more) people during a recorded interview.

      When you add in the editing issues (on the most basic level, is your program even smart enough to consistently determine from context whether the speaker said "there," their," or "they're"), you've got a project that is rather chunky to say the least.

      Very interesting, yes, but it reminds me a lot of the meetings with my CEO that start with the words "I've had a really exciting new idea, and your guys are all going to be really excited about it..."

      --

      * * *
      It is a dada story -- it has no moral.

    5. Re:How about algorithmic voice transcription? by Knobby · · Score: 2

      Very interesting, yes, but it reminds me a lot of the meetings with my CEO that start with the words "I've had a really exciting new idea, and your guys are all going to be really excited about it..."

      *grin* ... I completely understand the time and research problems involved in doing this right. I'm not suggesting that a voice2text utility would be as easy to construct.. I'm merely tossing this idea out there for the /. readers to ponder..

    6. Re:How about algorithmic voice transcription? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recommend changing the name from voice2text to v2t or even just vt. If I'm going to use it on a daily basis there's no way I'm going to continue to type a ten letter name.

    7. Re:How about algorithmic voice transcription? by mischief · · Score: 1

      So THERE.

      --
      Everything I know in life I learnt from .sigs
    8. Re:How about algorithmic voice transcription? by geekoid · · Score: 2

      Alias it you fool.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:How about algorithmic voice transcription? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or have sex in any myriad of ways with any number of known object, animal, vegetable, or mineral?

  18. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, they (Apple) don't. But so is any other name brand PC vendors (like Dell). If a PC user wants to use a Trackball instead, they also need to pay extra for it.

  19. Re:Lynx users everywhere... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    geee let's write a text transcript of some audio so we can listen to it in text to speech, great idea.

  20. MP3 Format? by Aurelfell · · Score: 0

    At the risk of being called a Troll, shouldn't anyone who is really interested in hearing The Woz talk about Apple have Quicktime installed? Maybe they're trying to win over us Linux geeks.

  21. Woz is a true 'hacker' in every sense of the word by Anton+Anatopopov · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The fact that he was shafted by Jobs, and doesn't lead a multi-millionaire lifestyle is testament to this. He did it for the love.

    He is almost the exact opposite of William Gates III. He is the Anti-Gates! :-)

    Its good to see he's still around.

  22. My e-mail to Timmothy: by Soko · · Score: 4, Funny

    Tmiothy,

    OK, I'll tpye. ;-)

    How long do I have, BTW?

    TIA

    Soko

    --
    "Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
  23. File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by paulywog · · Score: 5, Interesting

    OK. So someone explain why the MP3 file is 20MB of audio only, where as the QuickTime is 17MB of audio AND video...

    a) Quick Time quality sucks.
    b) MP3 compression sucks.
    c) Cowboy Neal sucks.

    1. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by billvinson · · Score: 1

      The MacShow Live does not contain video, but I guess QT compresses audio a little better in this case? This is mostly voice. I would say probably a lower bit rate.

      Bill

    2. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by TotallyUseless · · Score: 2

      I didn't get the quicktime file, but my guess is that it is audio only as well. I don't think the mac show broadcasts video, just audio quicktime. Besides, a phone interview doesn't make for compelling video, know what I mean?

      --

      Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
    3. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by hexix · · Score: 1

      You're jumping to conclusion. Quicktime can be just audio, it doesn't need to be audio and video. In this case, it is just audio, no video.

    4. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by mlc · · Score: 1

      The quicktime has no video.

    5. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by paulywog · · Score: 2

      Oops.

      There I go jumping the gun...

      (Thanks for not flaming my butt.)

    6. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by mcc · · Score: 2

      OK, i'll byte. The correct answer is:

      d) The offered mp3 file was arbitrarily encoded at a higher bitrate than the offered quicktime file was.

      Just in case someone would like me to continue stating the obvious: According to the "Movie Info" dialog in my copy of Quicktime Player, the quicktime file used the QDesign Music 2 codec and was encoded at 22.05 kHz and a bitrate of 2.4 kilobytes per second of sound (19.2 Kbps), and the mp3 file was encoded at 11.025 kHz and a bitrate of 2.9 kilobytes per second of sound (23.2 Kbps). Also for some unclear reason the mp3 version is about a minute longer, although given they're both just over two hours that probably wouldn't have much effect on the file size.

      I personally think the (smaller) QDesign encoding sounds much clearer, but i'd definitely rather listen to the mp3 version-- the QDesign version seems kind of higher-pitched and grating for some reason. That, however, doesn't really reflect much on either codec, since the quality of files of this sort tends to vary wildly depending on how good a job the specific encoder program does of, um, encoding, and different formats have different ranges of bitrates where they perform better than other ranges..

      And of course it probably isn't quite fair to compare QDesign directly to mp3, seeing as as far as i can gather QDesign was designed much more as a format for being flexibly streamed than it was as a format for good storage quality. The QDesign codec, for the record, is probably a more advanced codec than mp3 (if i remember correctly, it's a couple years newer than mp3 is), but i've no idea how it would stack up against mp3pro or ogg.

      Hey, you asked.

    7. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by t · · Score: 1
      You're forgetting the most important aspect is whether or not it was transcoded. e.g., take the source audio and encode as follows:
      original --> QDesign --> mp3 --> ogg --> repeat

      You'll find that the artifacts introduced at each stage make it harder for the next encoder to encode. Resulting in an output file that will increase in size after each stage while simultaneously decreasing in quality.

      t.

    8. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by t · · Score: 1
      Oops, one more rant: the newness of QDesign is irrelevant. Why I could come up with a brand spanking new audio codec. It'll be newer than anything else but I guarantee you it will fscking suck balls! Now if the QDesign people actually learned from history that would be different, but chances are all they did was look at what was patented by mp3 and said we can't use those algorithms. That's right patents fsck future technology. It would not be a suprise if an older method works better because they had a patent free workspace to implement in.

      t.

    9. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by TheAJofOZ · · Score: 1

      It's probably also worth noting that QuickTime can use mp3 as it's sound encoding format. QuickTime itself isn't actually a codec, it's just like avi in that it stores a collection of tracks which are individually encoded. So the quality of QuickTime is entirely dependant on which codecs you choose and the options you give to those codecs.

    10. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by kaimiike1970 · · Score: 1

      Ummmm, where can I get this 'ball-sucking' audio codec? I think i have been looking for it all my life...

      --


      Do a google search before posting.
    11. Re:File Sizes - Slashdot Poll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As punishment, force yourself to view for 5 seconds, the link.

  24. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So if you're annoyed that Dell is doing that, just go to a different computer maker than Dell. Plenty will sell you a system with whatever mouse you want or even no mouse at all. Choice is good.

  25. Re:Lynx users everywhere... by fossa · · Score: 1

    If I have a slow link and were blind I might rather download a text version and use a text to speech program.

    His point is that text is a good universal format, useable by nearly everyone. The existence of a single example where the audio-to-text is not so useful does not make a text file any less universal

  26. The Woz by Ace905 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I actually found some info on the Woz just the other day. I thought it was kinda cool, but the same thing he discusses on his website.

    Eggplants!


    --

    Ace
  27. Download it here: by Evro · · Score: 2

    http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/aw.nsf/techbios/CCD7 B0622FAB2F1788256A1B0057D13F looks like IBM is giving it away for free, NT 4.0/2000.

    --
    rooooar
  28. As I Listen... by dbCooper0 · · Score: 1
    I can't help but wonder about the people in CBM and Atari - who probably did not have someone like Woz who was a sole engineer in the development of the first two Apple boxen.

    I know that Nolan Bushnell was a key player in Atari's early years, and that the Amiga and Atari ST were actually "swapped" between companies where execs "jumped ship" - but what about Commodore's early years?

    I took a quick look for historical links, and came up pretty much empty-handed. Anyone have better resources?

    --
    db
    Cig:
    ôô
    /`
    1. Re:As I Listen... by aka-ed · · Score: 1
      Did you look here?

      --
      I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
    2. Re:As I Listen... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Hardware-wise, Commodore's VIC-20 and C64 were mostly the effort of Bob Yannes. He left CBM soon after that to found Ensoniq, to implement the audio hardware that because of time constraints he only partially managed to cram in the C64's SID (which at the time was anyway the best audio processor for a home computer, making a lot of memorable music possible). Ensoniq was recently bought by Creative.

    3. Re:As I Listen... by dbCooper0 · · Score: 1

      Thanks - I happen to own an Ensoniq Mirage (which went for about $1300 in the 80's) as well as plenty of Creative and Ensoniq sound cards. I subscribe to a Mirage mail list. I did not know the connection to Bob Yannes...

      --
      db
      Cig:
      ôô
      /`
    4. Re:As I Listen... by dbCooper0 · · Score: 1

      Just did look. Thanks.

      --
      db
      Cig:
      ôô
      /`
    5. Re:As I Listen... by Craig+Davison · · Score: 1

      Ah, so that's why the //gs sounded so good.

  29. Another Interview by dbCooper0 · · Score: 4, Informative
    can be found at The Guardian's Article that I got off Woz' site.

    Plenty of other references on Steve's site, as well...

    --
    db
    Cig:
    ôô
    /`
    1. Re:Another Interview by Snaggy · · Score: 1

      Heh, don't mind me, I'm just quoting a part of the Guardian interview....

      Do you have any favourite sites?

      Macintosh hardware and software developers and the (see www.geekculture.com/)

      :-)

  30. On Listening by sakusha · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm listening to the interview right now, and I can assure you that much will be lost if you convert it to text. You can't hear Woz's tone, as he gets excited about some things, and his serious tone on others. Come on, listen to the man's words, this is a guy who is talking about his youth when he could barely stand to speak to people from sheer shyness, and now millions of people can listen to his voice all across the world through the personal computers that he popularized. It's worth hearing his voice.

    1. Re:On Listening by GiMP · · Score: 1

      Yeah, assuming you *can* hear.

    2. Re:On Listening by CamelTrader · · Score: 1

      Very interesting. I volunteered to transcribe some of this interview, and was assigned my segment. I did the whole shebang, stuttering, laughs, ers and ahs. It certainly won't bring Woz to life on your screen, but I thought it would be neat, and I kinda enjoyed it. But Timothy told me he was going to edit out the stuttering for readability. I don't mind having my 'extra detail' edited out, but I'm reassured to know that some people are thinking along the same line (well...kinda.) as I am.

      --
      Your .sig is important to us. Please hold.
  31. Online voice transcription by SpinyNorman · · Score: 4, Funny

    Just 4 easy steps:

    1) Pick up your phone and dial the voice transcription service (any number will do)

    2) Give the transcription start command: "bin laden"

    3) Play the sample to be transcribed

    4) E-mail carnivore@fbi.gov to receive your free transcript!

    1. Re:Online voice transcription by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      carnivore@fbi.gov

      Scary. It hasn't bounced. Must be a valid email address.

    2. Re:Online voice transcription by Cassandra · · Score: 1

      Scary. It hasn't bounced. Must be a valid email address.


      Or they simply choose not to bounce email to invalid addresses.

  32. sphinx: free GPL-incompatible(?) speech recognizer by Adam+J.+Richter · · Score: 3, Informative

    At LinuxWorld in San Francisco, Geoff Harrison (sp?), co-author of the Enlightenment window manager, talked about text/speech conversion. If I recall his talk correctly, most proprietary voice recognition software is derived from the free sphinx system developed at Carnegie-Mellon University, which also has a sourceforge area. The web page at CMU talks about a sphinx3 program that is slower but more accurate, which sounds like a better fit for transcribing a previously recorded interview, but I did not see a link to the source code for it.

    Geoff's employer, Cepstral, also claims to have released some related software under "relatively liberal" permissions. (Sorry, I could not find any download links or texts of the corresponding copying permissions.)

    The sphinx2 copying permissions have an advertising restriction similar to the one that made the old BSD copying conditions GPL incompatible but "free" in the opinion of the Free Software Foundation. I do not know about the situtation with sphinx, sphinx3 or any Cepstral contributions.

  33. Speech-to-Text by tommy · · Score: 1

    I say it takes four times as long.

    --

    I have a woman and money. Life is good.

  34. Correction on sphinx2 sourceforge link by Adam+J.+Richter · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sorry, I thought I checked all of my links. The sphinx2 sourceforge links should be http://sourceforge.net/projects/cmusphinx/.

  35. Re:Steve Wozniak's Starting Capital by _damnit_ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    who, in turn, owe a debt to a quirky academic out east for the invention of the "mouse".

    The mouse and hypertext was invented by the Englebart team at SRI in Menlo Park, CA (on Ravenswood near a really good bar, coffee shop and book store).

    The original 1968 presentation which includes the world's introduction to hypertext and windowing is available on video at: http://sloan.stanford.edu/MouseSite/1968Demo.html. So, it might be safe to say Xerox owes their GUI to someone SRI who owes Turing who owes Grunt for discovering fire.

    --


    _damnit_

    It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
  36. "Text to speech editor" by underwhelm · · Score: 2

    My girlfriend works here, they might have the job for you...

    --

    I don't need large brains to have a good time.

  37. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They could also buy said mouse from an online mail-order distributor such as MacConnection or MacZone.

  38. That was fun :) by thesolo · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the opportunity to transcribe, Tim! Here is to hoping no one finds any glaring problems with my section!!

  39. Re:Woz is a true 'hacker' in every sense of the wo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...doesn't lead a multi-millionaire lifestyle"

    Well he does drive a Hummer and likes to pay for things in stacks of two dollar bills...

  40. QDesign Music 2 CODEC.. by Knobby · · Score: 2

    The Quicktime clip was encoded using the QDesign Music 2 codec as a16 bit Mono recording at 22.05kHz.

    Note: the sound is a little hollow.. I imagine the mp3 file sounds about the same, and the compression could probably be better if the signal had not been compressed on the fly, i.e. off-line compression can be better because the whole track is known and the optimization routine could be tuned to minimize the file size.

  41. Re: mac crashing by green+pizza · · Score: 2

    I have several machines at home (SGI Octane, Sun Ultra 2, several x86 PCs) though only two are Macs. One is an old PowerMac 8600, the other is a much newer iBook 500. I really haven't experienced the crashing so many folks are talking about. Back when my 8600 was running Mac OS 8.5 and Internet Explorer 4.0 it would freeze up on me every now and then, but overall both machines are very stable, even when running (gasp!) MS Mac Office 98, MS Mac Office 2001, and IE 5.0. Right now the 8600 is running Mac OS 8.6 and the iBook is running 9.1. My only real complaints right now are that IE 5.0 will sometimes stall for about 20 seconds while rendering a page. LPR printing to printers on my unix boxen is somewhat limited in flexibility. NFS clients for Mac OS 8.X/9.X are pricey. Hopefully OS X and OmniWeb will

    I have heard, though, some major horror stories about iMac/iBook/G3/G4 stability with versions of Mac OS prior to 9.1, especially when using USB devices. Luckilly 9.1 and 9.2.1 are a free upgrade to 9.X. 8.6 is the free upgrade to 8.5.X. There is no free upgrade from 8.X to 9.X. :( But that's ok, I can't afford any more expensive ram for my 8600 anyway!

  42. The Question is... by rbeattie · · Score: 3, Funny


    If a hundred Slashdotters spend a thousand minutes typing out 20 million bytes worth of audio, will it be Shakespeare?

    Or something like that...

    -R

    --
    Me
    1. Re:The Question is... by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 1

      No, it would be 19.9 million bytes worth of "First Post!" or stupid stuff like that.

  43. Re:sphinx: free GPL-incompatible(?) speech recogni by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Well that certainly scores a 5 on the Richter scale.

  44. perhaps it would be more cost effective by linuxpng · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    if they offered a trade in program for those who are interested. I mean, not everyone is going to want a computer, but those who do can trade up their computer and Ford can give those unwanted computers to charity. That gives Ford a nice tax write off. Furthermore, you look good to everyone. I mean, you are give to charity, you are upgrading your workforce's computers, and you make a little money back in the form of tax savings. Seems a little smarter to me. I wish my employer at least made the effort that Ford did.

  45. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Kymermosst · · Score: 1

    The answer is: whenever you plug in the multibutton mouse of your choice.

    It's only recently such a simple answer. This wasn't a cheap nor easy thing to do when Macs had just ADB ports. There weren't many multibutton ADB pointing devices out there, and they weren't cheap, either. (Then again, most Mac peripherals aren't cheap.)

    I did find a cool driver that'd let you plug in a PC mouse into one of the serial ports (with appropriate adapter) and use that it.

    --
    "Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
  46. The only Quicktime player that plays this is Apple by Nailer · · Score: 2

    Quicktime is a wrapper format. It works at a nigher layer than the actual codec, which can be be any number of format,s but is usually Sorenson.

    Sorenson is exclusively licensed to apple. The Linux programs that play and make Quicktime fils do so with other codecs. You can play the films made on Linux back under Windows Quicktime, but 99.95% of the content avaliable on the web won't play under these Linux players, because they're Sorenson, and the players don't support Sorenson.

    For Quicktime under Linux, use Codeweavers crossover

  47. woz's nephew OT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Woz's nephew from Gunn High School in Palo Alto was the biggest asshole around. He would go around telling everyone he demanded respect since his uncle was so rich. The short little fat prick used to go around advocating Apple as well.

  48. I Can't Believe I Found This... by dbCooper0 · · Score: 1
    Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, the founders of the Apple Computer, worked for Atari in 1974 (phrasing corrected by me)

    See for yourself in this article. (You'll have to search for "Steve" or something...) In the famous words of Johnny Carson: "I did not know that!" ;-p

    --
    db
    Cig:
    ôô
    /`
    1. Re:I Can't Believe I Found This... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, "Hackers" by Steven Levy mentions this also:

      [..]Besides his work at HP designing arithmetic logic for calculator chips, he also did some extra design work for the Atari game company, where another high school friend Steve Jobs, worked. This provided side benefits, like the time he went into a bowling alley and encountered a coin-operated videogame with a sign promising a pizza to anyone who scored over a certain level. After a number of pizzas, his amazed companion asked him how he had beaten the game so easily. "I designed it," said Wozniak between spasms of laughter.

    2. Re:I Can't Believe I Found This... by gig · · Score: 2

      Steve and Steve wrote the game "Breakout" for Atari. Versions of the game have been hidden as easter eggs in one or two Apple softwares, including either System 6 or 7.

      They offered the Apple II to both Atari and HP and were laughed at. So they sold it themselves and now we have home computers.

    3. Re:I Can't Believe I Found This... by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "Steve and Steve wrote the game "Breakout" for Atari."

      This is a nit, but I'm not sure that "wrote" is the right verb. I think arcade games of that era didn't use microprocessors. They had to create it using digital logic.

    4. Re:I Can't Believe I Found This... by DavidRavenMoon · · Score: 1
      Steve and Steve wrote the game "Breakout" for Atari.

      Also Steve Jobs "wrote" Pong. Back then it was all hard wired logic however.

      When Jobs found he was in over his head with Breakout he got Woz involved. The story goes that Woz's circuit was so involved that the Atari guys couldn't understand it and had to reverse engineer it!

      --
      -- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
    5. Re:I Can't Believe I Found This... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2

      Except, of course, that Jobs had nothing whatsoever to do with Pong. *Nothing*

      Willy Higinbotham invented a sort of ur-pong called "Tennis for Two" in the late 50's. And there was another pong precursor on the Magnavox Odyssey in the very early 70's.

      Nolan Bushnell and Al Alcorn developed Pong in the early 70's.

      At that time, Jobs, who knew very little about electronics, despite what he claimed ("Infinite Loop" has some scathing comments on this) would've either been a senior in high school, or in college in Oregon, in the process of dropping out and not eating.

      Jobs didn't work at Atari until the mid-70's. He was over his head right away, enlisted Woz who was actually responsible for Breakout, and wound up with a design that was indeed so unusual that it had to be redesigned anyway.

      Bushnell promised and delivered $5000 to Jobs for it. Jobs promised Woz half -- of $700. (i.e. $350) Woz didn't find out until years later that he had been cheated.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  49. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    recently? Macs started shipping with USB over 3 years ago. How long do you plan on holding this against them?

    f*cking idiot

  50. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Tom7 · · Score: 2


    Yeah, I was just kidding, but actually, the lack of two buttons on the iBook is one of the things that's keeping me from buying one. It is not very convenient to carry around a mouse as well.

  51. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't need one; you're too used to operating systems designed around 2 mouse buttons. It's very difference. Simulating two mouse buttons on the ibook is pretty easy anyways, easy to get used to.

  52. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe he's used to web-browsing with one hand??

  53. Funny you should say that... by dbCooper0 · · Score: 1
    This just in:

    Nolan Bushnell hires Steve Jobs to create Breakout. Jobs joins with Steve Wozniak and design the game in five days. Bushnell pays Jobs $5,000; Jobs pays $350 to Wozniak, and takes sole credit for Breakout.

    taken from The Atari Timeline

    I'll catch up l8tr...goin for pizza...;-()

    --
    db
    Cig:
    ôô
    /`
  54. Re:The only Quicktime player that plays this is Ap by stevek · · Score: 1


    This is a QuickTime AUDIO file. There is no Sorenson audio codec, therefore it's not likely to be encoded with Sorenson.

  55. Open-Source Alternative for good voice compression by joshdoe · · Score: 1

    I record weekly speeches to post on a website. The best format for recording speech I found was Windows Media format. However, due to my aversion to MS, I switched to RealAudio, which was still good, but not quite as good as WMA. I use RealAudio 16KB/s, which is perfect quality for my needs. Is there an open-source alternative that offers comparable voice compression?

  56. Re:Woz is a true 'hacker' in every sense of the wo by KFury · · Score: 2

    I've heard said that he usually keeps a couple virgin powerbooks in his trunk to give to people he meets who he thinks need to be evangelized.

  57. Re:Woz is a true 'hacker' in every sense of the wo by KFury · · Score: 2

    "...and likes to pay for things in stacks of two dollar bills."

    This is the mark of a multi-milionaire lifestyle? Eccentric? Yes, but I could go to the bank and use $2 bills instead of $20 yuppie food stamps. doesn't make me a millionaire, any more than using sacabucks.

  58. Re:Another Interview (fixed link) by Snaggy · · Score: 1


    ....a part of the Guardian interview....
    Do you have any favourite sites?
    Macintosh hardware and software developers and the Geek Culture cartoon (see www.geekculture.com/)

    :-)

  59. I wonder... by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 2

    what Woz thinks the "new thingy" by apple is going to be?

    MP3 player (enuf of those) is one thought, but I personally think the kickin ass device would be a Portable DivX player...Imagine an iBook screen, with a (DPg3?), ffmpeg codec (divx.jamby.net for you X.1 users and get the "old player" divx.max.st to "doctor" the .avi).

    DivX, maybe DVD, to go and music... Stripped down OS X...drool.

    On a G4-400 DivX is *flawless* videowise.
    Sound, depends on the datarate, it seems.

    I liked when he called "Dr. Mac" an hourse' d'ourve..heh, cute...and Dr. Mac's comment about X.1 of "it's safe now. He recommend for 10.1 don't pay 129 bucks to beta test.

    Moose.

    ps. Does the lack of slash dot posts mean there is no enthusiams about these topics, or are all the LOTR /. fans camping out for tickets?

    pps. See my rant in the LOTR topic if you feel the need to mod ppl down for joking around.
    Get a grip/clue/BJ/sense of humor, something...if you can't appreciate my sense of humor...dammit, that is *your* problem.

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  60. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by gig · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you don't like the Apple optical mouse, you can sell it for $40 on eBay, which is more than you paid for it with your system.

    When you cross platforms, you realize that there are a lot of inherant assumptions in each platform. If you use your right mouse button all day long, it's hard to imagine a system where it's not needed. The Mac has a pervasive, context-sensitive, "infinitely-deep" menu bar (you can't overshoot it since it's at the edge of the display). It's easy to slam your cursor up there and hit any particular menu in no time at all. If the menu bar were smaller, and sitting between a row of buttons and a window title bar, then there would be more utility in context menus. It's just a different approach. Windows users go "right-click / New Folder" and Mac users go "File > New Folder". The Mac user will be faster, I guarantee it, if they have used a Mac for more than a week. And if you want to work the Windows way, that is available too. Plug the same USB mouse from your Windows machine into a Mac and it works just fine, with scroller and multiple buttons and context menus.

    I love the Apple mouse I got with my PowerMac G4, and I just bought an identical mouse for $59 to use with my PowerBook G4. They are great mouses. Good to the hands, easy to use, easy to travel with because there are no pieces to fall off (the only moving part is an internal hinge).

    > especially with high prices that Apple is
    > already charging them

    Check out today's Mac prices ... they are not high. You just have to realize that Apple doesn't have any low-end machines. They all have 802.11 antennaes and slots (the high-end PowerBook has the $99 card included, too), they all have FireWire, they all have Mac OS X (equivalent to Windows XP Pro, not Home), they all have iMovie and iTunes software (best-of-breed software, not LE stuff), they all have TV out (except the PowerMac), they all have the best-quality displays. They all have Software Update, which is system software that checks once a day/week/user's-choice with Apple and updates everything that came with the box automatically, just asking the user for permission and an administrative password, including drivers, security updates, bundled apps. There are 10 other features like that, too, like CD/DVD burning in the Finder (4.5GB to a $6 DVD-R in 20 minutes in the background), or DiskCopy, which images any kind of disc to a file you can mount as if it were still a disk, so you can take game CD's with you on the road as a 300MB compressed file on your monster hard disk ($99 for a Windows software that does this). When you are looking to get all that stuff included and have a complete system that can do a lot of things out of the box, you will pay less in the end and do more with a Mac. If you are looking for a bare-bones system to run Linux, then yes, Macs look expensive. Saying that "Macs are expensive", though ... it doesn't take into account "value" as opposed to just "sticker price".

    That's why Apple is opening stores where all the display products are plugged-in, working, even with third-party software installed and ready to use, so you can try it out before buying ... they want people to come in and see what you get for your money, to see that the PowerPC chips are very high performance, even though they are small, low-power, and low-clock-speed. It's a pleasure to buy and work with their stuff.

  61. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by gig · · Score: 2

    > the lack of two buttons on the iBook is one of
    > the things that's keeping me from buying one

    Macs have an extra keyboard modifier key ... that is the second button. Instead of clicking the right Trackpad button, you hold down Ctrl with your keyboard hand and click the single mouse button with your mouse hand (if you know what I mean). You also Command+click for other things, or Shift+click for other things, or Option+click for other things. It isn't hard, because the mouse only has one button ... it's not Option+click with the left hand and right-click with the right which is where it would get complex.

    I used Windows for years, doing desktop publishing, graphic design, and some music and audio (which it really, really, really wasn't suited for). I always used a two-button mouse, of course, and could get around with the best of them. I put a two-button mouse on my first Mac right away, but went back to the one-button mouse after a couple of months because I realized that I had stopped using the right mouse button in favor of the menu bar, which is always available, and is, itself, context-sensitive.

    You won't miss the second button on an iBook.

  62. Re:Woz is a true 'hacker' in every sense of the wo by phillymjs · · Score: 2

    You don't have to be rich to pay for things with $2 bills. You just have to have a warped sense of humor, which Woz has. I happen to think that few things are funnier than watching your average 16 year-old Taco Bell counter-jockey's reaction to getting handed a few $2 bills as payment for your meal. Simply priceless.

    ~Philly

  63. WAR IS OVER! by peaceniknumber9 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    (if you want it)

  64. Did I hear "Woz" correctly? by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 2

    In the interview he was asked about os X.

    The response was he was "burned" pretty badly by the pre X.1, but Mail, utilities and such (with mention to Office for X, too) everything in X.1 "seemed 'good enough'".

    Correct me if I am wrong, please, but is that not a statement normally associated with Microsoft's applications? Even in the Microsoft, Linux, Unix and Mac camp's I've heard this so much it stood out as if shouted from a rooftop.

    Tell me honestly; Is that comment a compliment or a slap in the face?
    I'm still mulling it over.

    --
    Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
  65. Chuck Peddle, Mr. 6502 by wrong · · Score: 1

    The closest to a Woz that Commodore had was Chuck Peddle, who designed the 6502 which Apple, Atari, Commodore et al all used. He also built the PET.


    commodorehistory.com omits quite a few useful details - for example, it talks about the Amiga and AmigaDOS but is silent on Dr. Tim King, whose team was responsible for the upper layers of AmigaDOS, and who was later involved in the Great Amiga Transputer Experiment. There's plenty of data out there, though.

  66. doing it the hard way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i'd rather just talk to my friend who knows him personally =P

  67. Nolan Bushnell... by dbCooper0 · · Score: 1

    wouldn't have laughed - or was he still there?

    --
    db
    Cig:
    ôô
    /`
  68. Anyone have a non-Fraunhofer conversion? by Skapare · · Score: 2

    Anyone have a non-Fraunhofer conversion? The one they have out there is not working very well.

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  69. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...note that I might be comparing the Mac to Linux, which has the loopback driver, works just like disk copy. Not all of us would even *consider* using windoze. :-)

  70. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Tom7 · · Score: 1


    Sounds like I'd need two hands to browse the web... yech!

    There's something to be said for a clean UI, but I think this single-button stuff was just a mistake. Modifier keys are not simpler than different buttons.

  71. Close ... by DCMonkey · · Score: 1

    ... but don't you think there is a slight chance they'd use Quicktime instead of DivX;)?

    A portable quicktime (and mp3) player would be interesting, with a case shaped like the software QT player.

    --
    DCMonkey
  72. But where is the text? by sasha328 · · Score: 1

    I scoured all the comments, and if the link to the transcribed text is there, I missed it.

    1. Re:But where is the text? by Anml4ixoye · · Score: 2
      Well, here's my chunk - about 10 minutes in to the conversation:

      SJ - "And the last one being one year at Berkeley that the bluebox here at Steve Jobs. I wouldn't have traded Apple for that whole year"

      SK - "Explain to the audience what that Blue Box year is."

      SJ - "Blue Boxes, you know, I don't even think they worked the year that I left. But the year I was there, it's like, you could put the right tones into a telephone and just control all the switching circuits of the phone network of the world and make free calls anywhere and talk to operators in other countries and reroute signals back to the phone next to you."

      SK - "Completely illegal by the way."

      SJ - "Pardon?"

      SK - "Completely illegal by the way."

      SJ - "Completely Illegal and I kind of thought of myself as an ethical hacker. I won't make these calls. I wouldn't make bluebox calls. Any call I made to like friends, relatives, I paid for. I developed that thinking about it early on. I only used the bluebox to experiment with the system and explore it. But, I have helped other people build blueboxes, redboxes, blackboxes and pass out information to them and doing that - that I feel badly about looking back. Like that was really kind of illegal. I was helping other people cheat the system and, you know, not pay for things they should pay for."

      SK - "Well, at that time, that was kind of a, uh, don't you see that as part of the experimentation of youth, that, and granted, we're both probably just justifying our past indiscretions, but isn't it, because nobody really got hurt, isn't it...serve"

      SJ - "Well, very close. Young people will often, if they have these abilities to do this - almost nobody has the ability - they make up blueboxes, you know, just their technical and engineering ability and stumbling onto it and being interested in certain articles, but, you know, you mentioned my shyness earlier? This was the first time in my life that, for that one year, I was also out of my shyness because I was master of ceremonies. I could talk for an hour describing the bluebox stories, the technology, how it worked, giving demos, talking about famouse phone phreaks, and wierd stories of strange things they've done and how they beat the system and that basically was the first time in my life I could kind of talk and be the MC."

      SK - "It's sort of a hacker ethic that you're talking about is, and that's obviously still to a certain degree has a great deal of effect in your life at Apple and your life after Apple, correct?"

      SJ - "Ummm, I would say just all my life I guess that the way I operate then is probably still, it's still the same now.I'm sure if you had heard some of the things I've done in the recent years you'd say, 'He's still doing it.' But, ummm, the best thing came out the bluebox for Apple was just a chance to experiment, trying to get my designs as tiny as possible with the perfect set of chips, and I did some designs in the bluebox that I never did anything that good, even at Apple. But at least the timing circuits were the exact same chip structure of the synchronous counter chips that I used for the TV counting signals of the Apple 1 and 2."

      SK - "Mm hmm"

      SJ - "So it's carried over a little."

      SK - "That's something we'll definately get into in the next segment we're going to talk about your life at Apple. But in the meantime folks I would go to Woz.org. He's got a very extensive FAQ there that has all kinds of letters, all kinds of answers to questions that you can find out what he's doing now, what he was doing in the past, what his thoughts are about various things including sounds like the much hated A&E Billionaire Biography, right?"

      SJ - "Uhh, repeat that?"

      SK - "It sounds like you weren't a big fan of the A&E Billionaire biography about you?"

  73. Re:Woz is a true 'hacker' in every sense of the wo by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

    So he leads the lifestyle of a GI.

    --

    Lars T.

    To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  74. Re:The only Quicktime player that plays this is Ap by Knobby · · Score: 2

    You're right. The audio track is encoded using the QDesign Music 2 codec

  75. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by mkelley · · Score: 1

    I have about a 5-6 year old Logitech Mouse Trackball with three buttons and an ADB connector. And it cost me $25, the same as a PC mouse.

    --

    m.kelley
    life is like a freeway, if you don't look you could miss it.
  76. Re: mac crashing by DavidRavenMoon · · Score: 1
    I have heard, though, some major horror stories about iMac/iBook/G3/G4 stability with versions of Mac OS prior to 9.1, especially when using USB devices. Luckilly 9.1 and 9.2.1 are a free upgrade to 9.X. 8.6 is the free upgrade to 8.5.X. There is no free upgrade from 8.X to 9.X. :( But that's ok, I can't afford any more expensive ram for my 8600 anyway!

    You can install 9.1 on the 8600 off of the CD you got with the iBook... it should work fine.

    9.2.1 probably wont run on the 8600 however. We have 9.1 running on an old 7500 at work (updated with a 266 MHz G3 card) but 9.2.1 wont install on it.

    If you can't run 9.1 on the 8600, consider running 8.6 (8.6.1), it was much faster and more stable than 8.5.

    --
    -- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
  77. Why most geeks don't buy Macs... by Patoski · · Score: 1

    When you are looking to get all that stuff included and have a complete system that can do a lot of things out of the box, you will pay less in the end and do more with a Mac. If you are looking for a bare-bones system to run Linux, then yes, Macs look expensive.

    Herein lies my objections to buying a Mac. Apple forces you to buy the kitchen sink in addition to their very limited set of hardware offerings. Perhaps I don't want a bare bones system but I don't want want the kitchen sink either. Why does Apple force me to buy all these additional peices? Most people want to buy the system that meets their needs and are unwilling to pay for what they think are extraneous features. Cos that's how Apple pads their bottom line of course! Tacking on all those extras that most people don't use adds to Apples bottom line and takes money needlessly out of my pocket. No thanks.

    Saying that "Macs are expensive", though ... it doesn't take into account "value" as opposed to just "sticker price".

    You say that Macs are a good value but for most people they are not. In order for a computer to be a good value it must provide me with precisely the correct amount of utility. Apple adds lots of gadgets that while they may have a certain coolness factor the also add a lot to the price tag. It would be fair to say that Macs charge a reasonable price for the number of features that their computers have but to say that they're a good value isn't quite true in my eyes. As I stated earlier most people don't want or need all the extra features that Apple won't allow you to strip off. Until Apple opens their hardware offerings and making their machines much more configurable they are and most likely will remain be a niche player.

    --
    G. Washington on Government "it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    1. Re:Why most geeks don't buy Macs... by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 1
      As I stated earlier most people don't want or need all the extra features that Apple won't allow you to strip off. Until Apple opens their hardware offerings and making their machines much more configurable they are and most likely will remain be a niche player.

      Most people? I think you mean "most Linux people who want absolutely nothing." The average user (i.e., your grandparents) want the stuff that comes with the average Mac or PC. Let's take a look at Apple's low-end iMac:

      • 500MHz PowerPC G3
      • 256K L2 cache @ 500 MHz
      • 64MB SDRAM
      • 20GB Ultra ATA drive
      • CD-ROM Drive
      • RAGE 128 Ultra w/16MB
      • 10/100BASE-T Ethernet
      • 56K fax modem
      • 15-inch display (13.8-inch VIS)
      • 2 USB & 2 FireWire ports

      Nothing unreasable there? Sure you could strip out the Ethernet port or the Fireware ports ("I don't use Firewire on my PC" you say, well, you can on the Mac and it's onboard.)

      Software? The iMac comes with:

      • Mac OS (well, you have to have that because "most people" will not run Linux. Sorry, that's just reality. Your grandparents are not going to run Linux. Loading them up and forcing them to run Linux doesn't count. They aren't going to come to you and say "Sonny boy, I want a computer that runs Linux.")
      • iTunes (it's an MP3/CD player, probably the best on the Mac, what's wrong with that? Free to download, too.)
      • iMovie 2 (hey, use for those Firewire ports)
      • AppleWorks 6 (it's not Microsoft Office, even better, right?)
      • Palm Desktop (free, costs you nothing)
      • FAXstf (again, the only real descent fax software for the Mac)
      • Bugdom (it's a game, sure you can toss that)
      • Nanosaur (another game, wheee...)
      • Cro-Mag Rally (and another...)
      • Quicken Deluxe 2001 (the most popular/best financial package out there, bundling this is bad?)
      • Netscape Communicator (free!)
      • Microsoft Outlook Express (free!)
      • Microsoft Internet Explorer (free!)
      • 30 days of free Internet service through EarthLink (free!)

      So let's review here. You can toss out a whole 8 software packages, of which only one will the average user really use (Quicken). You're complaining that you can't strip off AppleWorks, three crappy games, fax software, and iMovie 2?

    2. Re:Why most geeks don't buy Macs... by Patoski · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the main thrust of my arguement. Apple doesn't allow for consumer choice and has very little flexibility in their configurations. While this makes maintaining their OS and Apps a lot easier consumers are looking at PCs where they have _tons_ of choices.

      Consumers are very fickle things... If two products are roughly equivilant and you don't provide very many choices and someone else does you're toast.

      I assume you're quoting the iMac specs so let's look at that. I will get Firewire with my computer but I can't get something as basic as a floppy drive from the factory? What if I want a geForce 2 with my iMac? What if my computing needs demand tons of CPU but very little RAM? What if the inverse is true? Is that something that I can change? No... If one of the major automobile co.'s only offered two lines of cars they would be screwed. Hence we see Apple's position...

      Apple provides nice vanilla setups that would suit a number of people but they refuse to even try to compete the loads of options that exist in the x86 world. This is one reason why Apple has basically been banished from the overwhelming majority of corp. America desktops and also why they're only a niche desktop player.

      --
      G. Washington on Government "it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    3. Re:Why most geeks don't buy Macs... by Gogo+Dodo · · Score: 1
      Ah, the floppy drive argument. So when was the last time you needed a floppy disk that wasn't for an emergency boot? File storage? Zip disks are better. Or even CD-RW (you can get those with iMacs). Emergency boot? The Macs have booted from CDs for years now.

      As for the GeForce 2, if you wanted a gaming machine, then the iMac wouldn't be your first choice anyways. Just like you wouldn't necessarily get a Celeron (unless you overclocked it). You'd pick up an Athlon instead, so you'd get a G4 unit where you get a GeForce 2 MX by default or you can upgrade to a GeForce 3.

      Extra RAM? All Macs have easily accessible RAM slots. Stuff any vendor's RAM into the unit. Third party RAM is always cheaper than OEM RAM.

      Lots of CPU but little RAM? Not a problem, dual 800Mhz units and you can configure it to have 128 MB of RAM.

      You really need to check out Apple's online store. You can configure a Mac with options. Yes, the list isn't as long as your laundry list of PC items, but do your grandparents really need or even care about having the latest overclocked GeForce 3 Ti graphics card? I seriously doubt it. They want a computer that runs out of the box and ready to go. The Macintosh line does exactly that. The iMac sets up in less than 15 minutes (hardware and software) with three cords: power, keyboard (mouse chained into the keyboard), modem/Ethernet line.

  78. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by DavidRavenMoon · · Score: 1
    Maybe he's used to web-browsing with one hand??

    On Mac web browsers you only need one hand. If you want the menu to pop up you just click and hold anywhere on the browser... on a link, on the background, etc. and the menu will pop up.

    To simulate the second button with a one button mouse you hold down the Control key (which is not used for much on a Mac, the Mac equivalent of the PC control key is the Command [Apple] key).

    I do use a multi-button mouse though... a MS IntelliMouse Optical, and on my old Mac I had a cordless three button mouse and a wired 3 button mouse late on.

    --
    -- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
  79. Re:Open-Source Alternative for good voice compress by Master+Of+Ninja · · Score: 1

    I try and use the best stuff available. For this I would use wma or mp3 (most likely mp3). I know people are averse to wma, but I don't mind as long as its on Windows Media Player 6.4 .

    The rest of the media player are loaded with useless rubbish (ie skins) that just bloat the software unnecessarily. Real Player is the same with all its loaded rubbish. Ditto quicktime (although i really do like the format).

    This is why I like MP3 - no unnecessary bloatware just to listen to something!

  80. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >Windows users go
    >"right-click / New Folder"
    >and Mac users go "File > New Folder".

    actually, windows users go: "Alt-F, N, F" and mac users go: "cmd-N". Whenever I need new folders, I hop on my Mac. I can crank them out in 1/3 the time!

  81. Re: mac crashing by j-beda · · Score: 1
    9.2.1 probably wont run on the 8600 however.

    One can trick the installer to doing the update on an 8600 and then replace a few critical resources and get 9.2.1 up and running. There have been a few discussions on how to do it at xlr8yourmac and in the macfixit.com forums. I don't know what you good it does however.

    I think that if you install Mac OS X on the 8600 (through a few nifty hacks availabe at Otherworldcomputing) and get 9.2.1 installed, the classic environment is supposed to be more stable. I have yet to get them both working on my 8600 with a G4 upgrade. 10.0.4 works fine with both the 8600/604e and the upgraded 8600/G4, but I haven't gotten 10.1 to install yet.

  82. Re:Need more Mice Buttons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like you can remove the mouse on a Dell purchase? Same problem. Oh, I forgot, you're a Linux person. You built your mouse out of marbles and duct tape.

  83. Re:Semi-algorithmic - Hullfishing by epeus · · Score: 2

    The best trick for this I have heard is to get yourself a copy of IBM ViaVoice and train it carefully for your voice. then, mike youself up, and play back the sound you want transcribed, and repeat it into the viavoice mike. It gets transcribed beautifully, becasue it is in your voice. This lets you do near real-time transcription This process is called 'Hullfishing' after its creator, Steve Hullfish

  84. Woz is broke because he blew his money- by drunkenbatman · · Score: 1

    The fact that he was shafted by Jobs, and doesn't lead a multi-millionaire lifestyle is testament to this. He did it for the love.

    This is a really ignorant comment... i think you COULD make the arguement that job's shafted him (even more than once if you know your apple history) but wozniak came out of apple with a TON of money, hundreds of millions of dollars.

    The problem was that he blew it all, literally. The guy decided to fund all sorts of things, namely a company trying to make a universal remote... but i believe the thing that sucked away most of his money was when he got it into his head that he could be a concert promoter, and lost his shirt.

  85. Re:The only Quicktime player that plays this is Ap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speaking of which, why are so many pr0n .avi's "div2" codec, which doesn't exist?

    Repeated reinstallations of whatever that 4.0 codec package is and that 3.11 alpha one (any order) do NOT work.

    Win 98, what do I do?