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Onstar Navigation System to Deliver In-Car Spam
pneuma_66 writes: "According to the New York Times (Free reg, don't cha know) navigation systems, like OnStar, are planning to deliver ads based on the car's location. For example, the system will 'notify' the driver of sales in nearby stores. The vp of OnStar says "The privacy and the confidentiality of our subscribers are of the utmost importance", well lets see how the big companies play with this new wealth of information."
Well, apparently now you cant run to your car to hide from all that spam you get from the USPS and your email and your AOL email.. They've now got you! you go camping with your car, you're still going to get spammed.. seems to me that they've got every corner of the earth to be now non-spam-free.. unless you do go hiking into the wilderness.. but heck.. maybe they've got some trees hooked up to the net so you'll be spammed in the wilderness now too!
Isnt there any end to this spamfest?
Moderation Totals: Funny=+1 Insightful=+1 SpamComplaint=-1
Online spam in the car? Ouch
I'd have a personalized plate on my car, but "toxic bachelor" won't fit into 7 letters.
So when the bicyclist sues you, and you in turn pin it on OnStar, that's when this shit will be nipped in the bud.
Its only happening when you use their 'virtual advisor' service. Yeah, you pay for it. but its not going to be interrupting your service use. If you dont like it, dont buy it. duh!
-- dieman - Scott Dier
... seriously. Will that work? Oftentimes there will only be one person in the car and hence he/she wont be able to look down to see the ad. Besides, with the way people drive these days, wno one will have time to stop for a sale anyway.
Now something more realistic (if it isnt there already) would be having the system allow a user to query information about nearby hotels, malls, restaurants, etc.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
Wonder how Batman is going to react to this. Joker will love it for obvious reasons.
I read something in Analog SF recently that involved a household robot that you could get for free, in exchange for having it spout ads all the time. ("You are out of window cleaning fluid. I suggest you buy Windex! Streak free cleaning bla bla bla...") Maybe if they gave you the OnStar service free, or at a reduced rate, the incar ads wouldn't be so bad... but even then, this is kind of a bad idea.
We'll see how the market likes this.
Username taken, please choose another one.
Advertising is really getting awfull. I can see a huge suit going over this. And I hoep so. Buy a product, and then they advertise to you!
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
Is this in lieu of the $10/month fee for the service?
If so, I can go for that.
I bet they're going to try the same tired line of "Well, in this dynamic market, we need to experiment with sources of revenue..blabla..."
:-)
They're *already* charging people something like $399/yr, in addition to the stuff being installed on your vehicle,and NOW they're going to try throwing ADVERTISEMENTS at you?
Screw *that* - I'll just drive around with my happy Garmin eTrex GPS unit. At least it doesn't feel the need to inform me of a sale at Macy's.
On the flip side, Onstar really CAN find most anything. Our crazy friend Bill called Onstar and asked "Where's the nearest tittie bar?" and we had the answer within seconds. Gotta love that kind of service.
The article indicates no pop up ads. That's a relief for me as a driver - i dont want an ad suddenly blocking my vision of the road. But like Internet ads, they didnt start off with pop ups either - so the question is how long until the ad appears on my windshield via heads up displays?
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
A moron that gets distracted like that shouldn't have a license. What if the idiot looked at the car radio because it was a DJ on the radio? Sue the radio station. What if he looked around for a the guy out his window selling flowers. Sue the dirty hippie. What if his cell phone rang? Sue the cell phone company.
You're logic is flawed. Quit being a karma whore.
This might not be all bad... take an example scenario for instance:
1. VA Linux, err... Systems... err, whatever they are nowaways sells all customer information on every
2. Geeks everywhere are suddenly constantly notified (in that pleasant feminine voice) of valuable chances to spend their money:
- "There is a strip club off to your left. Those women like geeks."
- "Adult video store just around the corner!"
- "That iMac girl is real, and she's giving out table dances at the Fun Club downtown at eight o'clock!"
- "Your boss just installed Windows XP across the company network. Your BSD server is gone. Wouldn't you like to purchase a firearm at Ed's Discount Sawn-offs tonight?"
The possibilities are limitless.I too have a knee-jerk reaction to advertising, however I think I would love to have such a service done right, and delivered into my car. I don't know about you, but I think that being in an unknown area and getting notified of nearby restaurants/shops/whatever is kinda neat.
Don't forget advertising's original goal: to get the word out about products.
Petru
Oh yeah and I forgot to add.. if they're putting spam in cars.. your new bicycle at this rate will probably have spam too, and it'll be powered by you pedalling! Think it'll end there? How about that baby stroller you bought.. gee it'll be spamming you and it'll be powered by you pushing it!
The spam industry's never going to let you go..
OPT-IN MARKETING!!!! I never thought I'd see the day merketers ask me if I want to see ads. Read the article and you shall see - the spamming requires you to sign up. Of course one already pays soemthing like 400/year for it, so i dont know how many people will jump for joy over this. Maybe if they cut the fee for signing up they'll get some people who will live with ads.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
Ok while I hate to say that this is spam and all spam is bad, it will work...
Let me explain why. Right now there is a certain amount of noise, much like a radio. But now imagine a radio that can custom tailor information based on your location.
I have a GPS system in my car and I LOVE IT!!! I never have to read another map. And in Europe the GPS system is REALLY accurate. What I would love to do is tell my system that I am interested in buying something in the next week. And if I drive past a store that has that something tell me. Or if I need that something right away tell me. The point is that I would really like this even though it is spam.
I think the difference with this spam and other spam is that this is pin point spam that may actually be relevant on the spur of the moment.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Drive by Harvard University... Get your PhD degree!
Drive by the bank... Make $$$ Fast!
Drive by the swimming pool... Get wet pussy now!
Thanks to OnStar and AOL, my daily commute is finally going to become fun again!
Ceci n'est pas une sig
I don't mean the technical differences, but the fact that you are getting advertisements you didn't request. I suppose the next step will be to create the "Onstar Silver" system, where you can configure the type of ads you want to get, "Onstar Gold", where you can make queries about the nearest restaurants, etc, and the "Onstar Platinum" where you are given the choice of not receiving any ads.
Yeah, but here's the real question.
Supposing OnStar can track where your car is, can't it also track acceleration and velocity and all that? I mean, supposing there's a sale at a Bob's Stores. It flashes the Ad.
Now, supposing you slow down and turn into the Bob's Stores parking lot. OnStar, technically, could save this information as specific to your vehicle. An entry in their big database that says "Customer 84392 will respond to advertising in this catagory."
What it all seems like is one big cyber-snoop service, tracking where you really are and advertising towards your patterns. A waste of car battery just like the new limewire ads are a waste of processing power.
Now, OnStar could say they won't do this, but you know it'll happen. It's a perfect advertising scheme. They'd know exactly what kind of driver and shopper you were dependant on what stores and advertisements you listened to and responded to.
Ieshan
Predictor at Large
Lost again! Drat!
Oh please OnStar gods help me!
"Hello, OnStar BOFH here"
Yeah, I'm lost, I'm trying to find 1234 Bovine...
"No Problem Sir..."
""
"Up on your right there is a WalMart, do you see it?"
Uh, yeah, sure... but what...
"Pull into the parking lot so I might give you some indepth instructional proceedures."
OK...
"WalMart is having a special on Remington Pump Shotguns, they normally retail for..."
Wait, I need to get to...
"Sure, proceed north for 3 miles and I'll alert you when you reach THAT destination."
"On your right is a StarBucks giving a special discount to OnStar Customers!"
I really really need to get to 1234 bovine...
There is a really important meeting that I must attend, if I don't make it, it could mean the end of my career and all dreams!
"Oh that sounds important..."
""
""
Um, sir, this looks like the same walmart I was at an hour ago. My god, the meeting is over... I'm ruined! What is your problem!
"You've reached WalMart, home of the Wally arsenal collection! Your profile suggests this would be perfect"
AAAAARGG!
How much were those shotguns?
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Think first, then post, it'll make you seem a lot smarter.
Certainly opens a few possible 'revenue opportunities' for those in the advertising sector. Whether it will catch on is another matter. From a commercial standpoint it's great to advertise to those most likely to buy from you (and if they are nearby, so much the better).
However it's going to be difficult to sell advertising space to reach, lets say, the one unfortunate bastard in the whole state who has bought Onstar and happens to pass by everyday as he leaves his house...
And anyway, as a private individual, I abhor the idea of yet more corporate 'throat-stuffing' as I go about my daily business.
--This isn't a man who is leaving with his head between his legs.
.
K.I.T. Michael, there's a 40% discount sale at the "Spank Your Pants" Adult Bookstore in that strip mall to the right.
M. Knight Excellent Kit! Go to "pursuit" mode.
Someone you trust is one of us.
Come to Chuck's Garage. We'll disconnect this bloody thing.
Run in fear! Buy Tickets! It's Harry Potter's box office.
tcd004
Mod this as off-topic if you want. This week on the NPR radio show CarTalk, The lady who's voice they use for *OnStar(tm) called up and talked with Tom & Ray. Apparently GM buys the OnStar service from another company. The lady spoke about how advanced the voice regognition was and that the text to voice (that uses her voice) does not sound like your average: "At. The. Tone. Deposit. Thirty. Five. Cents." This voice tech seems like the only cool thing that the /. crowd would even care about.
The lady who called herself "Mary-Mac" said that she was just in Silicon Valley laying down more voice takes for OnStar, in addition to the thousands she has already done. I would not be surprised if they were finishing up this new spam stuff. And while the call was very self promoting, she also agreed with the hosts Click and Clack that you should pull over when using your cell phone. She even nice enough give them an OnStar-ish sound bite.
You should check out CarTalk, it is on your local NPR stations on the weekends and last week's show can be heard during the week on their website. The hosts regualarly beat up on GM and OnStar, so much so they almost talk about it every week now.
Scenario: A man is driving the family to a nice dinner in the minivan. He drives past a shady section of town. Suddenly, an advert for a nearby adult 'alternative lifestyle' gentlemen's club that he frequents comes on the speakers. It's even displayed on the navigation screen. At the very end, the announcer quickly says the terms and conditions, then says that the ad was chosen because of the number of times his car has been parked close to the store.
Wahoo! I don't have enough spam as it is. Think about this. You wake up in the morning, take a shower, check email before you head to work and are instantly bombarded with spam. %90 of the messages you received are spam and are mostly for disgusting porn sites. You then go to your car hear nothing but ads on the radio, your On-star then goes off every 30 seconds with annoying ads as you drive near a mall or downtown district. For me, living in New York city, I bet it will probably go off every 10 seconds where I am constantly surrounded by stores! Then you get to work and guess what? Then you get even more spam. Your corporate email will be loaded with spam and your co-workers with beepers will receive spam! Imagine being at work when your beeper goes off displaying spam and you or your employer has to pay $.15 for each spam ad you receive! I just can't take it anymore! This is becoming a sad reality. I hear the old Monty Python song spam going off in my head right now as I type this.
...oops I mean verbal spam that you can not shut off its, its 100 times as worse. Thats right. You can't turn On-star off! It will just go on and on to your ears go deaf or you go nuts! If On-star ever does this they will commit corporate. No one would possible want a constant spam machine in there cars. I do not like distractions when I am driving. Especially ones that are verbal. All I have to say is that I am sorry for On-star owners who are reading this right now.
If I had one of these things in my car, I would probably rip it out with my own bare hands! How intrusive can you get! With email you can just ignore it or click on it and delete it. But with verbal harassment's
I remember not too long ago that you can have your access to the internet could be terminated for spamming. You could be flamed or kicked out of a newsgroup for spamming only a single spam ad. Seriously. Spamming was very bad. Just ask any old timer. The internet and especially the newsgroups section of it were created for schools and institutions to share and exchange ideas and to promote learning. Today its being banned from schools thanks to porn spams. I was on dejanews recently and I saw actual pedophile spam ads. If I had kids I definitely would not want them to log on to the newsgroups today. What a shame.
http://saveie6.com/
- sending spam via SMS to cellular phones is illegal (strange: the sender aka spammer will pay the bill)
- sending spam via e-mail is legal (here the innocent receiver has to pay the BIG part of the bandwith involved)
- persistent cookies are illegal (only session cookies are allowed)
- nothing about spyware (as if it were less intrusive than cookies!!!)
More here: Heise Onlinelong live our clueless politicians!
ms
My first reaction was now they've gone and completely screwed up a good product. I was considering getting one of these but if they're going to bombard me with ads, forget it.
My second reaction, upon seeing it is opt-in, is who's stupid enough to sign up for this?
-- Will program for bandwidth
All the in car nav systems I have seen/used always pop up a box warning the driver not to use the system while driving. I guess this allows the manufacturer to disclaim liability problems that might happen for accidents with claims like "I was looking at my nav system when I hit x..."
So on the one hand we are discouraged to use the device then driving around, and to only look it at to get directions, but now the device is going to be advertising junk - trying to get our attention?
Seems like a liable case waiting to happen, unless it only displays spam when the vehicle is detected to be stationary (which would make the spam low volume->not spam).
-- Mike
No? Then I ain't stoppin in the middle of town.
Why should I complain? Look at all the great stuff that would not exist if companies were not permitted to shove stuff down our throats all day. Highway billboards, McDonalds, top 40 music, alternative top 40 music, Hollywood, children's cereal that cost more per pound than steak, three large and valuable TV fanchises owned by GE, Westinghouse and Disney, artificial grape flavor, the list of quality additions to all our lives goes on and on. With databases they can target those of us who don't buy such shit for extermination. This is a great day and we are one step closer to thar really cool car, Kit pimp addition. Thank you OnStar for proving that there will be one less place to hide.
I can't wait for the new home emergency service with opt in adverts. Just imagine your $400/year burgalar alarm shouting things at you. I'm over awed. I can't wait for it's integration into the Homaland Security sytem so the Federal Government can make sure I'm safe too. This is all so cool. Gadget future, just like predicted in 1984.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
On-Star in the Bat Mobile?
Duh-nun-nunna-duh-nuh-nunna BAT SPAM!!!
If it is not on fire, it is a software problem.
But it's not spam!
:-)
It's "targetted advertising."
How long before procmail gets ported to OnStar? Hey, Linux has been ported to everything under the sun; why not procmail?
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
this is why, if i were ever to buy a car with OnStar, i would drive it right straight from the dealership to the nearest good auto electronics place and tell the man, "if you can get that shite out without destroying the interior, you can keep the electronics of it *and* i'll pay you for the effort".
well, maybe i'd ask the guy if i could buy the GPS receiver off him. that might be a fun thing to play with. but the rest he could keep.
Judging on the areas I have to drive through to get to work, I'll be receiving lots and lots of ads for where I can buy the purest heroin and the cheapest automatic weapons...
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
If you want to buy an LT model truck or sport ute (LT = heated, pleather, power seats in addition to all other options on truck), you have to get OnStar. There is no way for me to purchase the GM vehicle I want without buying onstar, and then having the burden of removing it and ordering a panel for the next trim level down to fill the hole.
You can turn your radio off.
"Spam is flooding the Internet with many copies of the same message, in an attempt to force the message on people who would not otherwise choose to receive it."
From the Net Abuse FAQ:
"The term "spam," as used on this newsgroup, means "the same article (or essentially the same article) posted an unacceptably high number of times to one or more newsgroups." CONTENT IS IRRELEVANT. 'Spam' doesn't mean "ads." It doesn't mean "abuse." It doesn't mean "posts whose content I object to."
This isn't really that big of a deal, just play a soft but distinctive seris of tones before the ad starts playing, so the user knows what's coming. I do the same thing with my text-to-speech television show reminder, and I don't have a problem unless the music is turned up so loud that I miss the intro tones.
I go to another town and hear advertising for that town! Yeah!
Of course for some reason the radio stations don't seem to need to track my every movement, or make me pay to recieve their ads, but hey this is progress!
well thats cool, now sicne onstar is lining its pockets with ad money, it will be a free service...right, right??? RIGHT?!
i cant tell you how badly this sits with me...
________________________________________________
Will the price of OnStar be lower because of this? Or will this end up being another thing like cable, where you pay an enourmous amount of money for something that used to be done for free to the enduser, but now you pay AND get commercials.
now let me cut these niggerz up and show them where the fuck i'm comming from.
Many car radios in germany have a feature that recognizes when there is traffic information on a (user-) selected station, and automatically turn the volume up and switch to that station (if you listen to a different one or tape or CD). When the info is over, things go back to what they were before. Some background info
So if a driver doesn't know his radio better than his nav system (actually even then), he could be quite irritatet by both. It certainly anoyed me a couple of times, when the radio began yelling traffic info at me.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
you pay for a whole fucking car and they still have to spam you?
I see a future where spam is mandatory, everywhere, all the time, and its omnipresent pressure will make for a rather effective form of populace control. Big brother will not be the government, but the corporations which control it.
Whats the fuck up with this? The parent is posting his flames at +2. Cock head.
--If you give a person a fish, they'll fish for a day. But if you train them to fish, they'll fish for a lifetime.
...and if you sell fake fishing licenses you can afford to buy a boat!
I've just checked out your home page, and fuck, you sir, are ugly!
Actually, it would make a wonderful scene for a subplot in a movie. Yes I can see it - someone wins a year in a house from the future - the Microsoft house that wakes you up everytime you get spam. And the final escape to the car where it decides to use the "follow you everywhere" feature for email and messages. complete with the tech support who insist that this is a feature and all the rest.
Someone should be able to hone some sort of open source movie script to fine effect.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
United Airlines has said today that to increase lost revenue from recent events, it has decided to start sponsoring terrorism. The airline will soon place adverts on their new bullet-proof doors and on the tail fin - which experts say, is the most likely part of the plane to survive in a crash. Also, prospective terrorists will be given cash back if they agree to promote inflight purchases when hi-jacking "This plane is now under control of the Al'Quaeda terrorist group, please remember, Pepsi-Cola(tm) is available on the inflight trolly for a discounted price, buy now, before we crash into the whitehouse. Did I also mention 'Jones Funeral Services'? yes, for a special promotion, Jones are offering 3 pine-wood coffins for the price of 1!!! (buy now, while limbs intact)"
(see, you can't call me a karma whore, im about to get modded to -50)
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Dont buy Onstar. Buy an aftermarket Nav system that isn't going to rob you blind monthly and then for the quarterly navigation disc updates. (Nothing like a forced upgrade.. your navdisks are too old, please replace them with a newer version...)
:-)
There are several Car computing/navigation systems out there. Hell if you want one that is cheap but the first one out there buy an autopc off of ebay. (Dont pay any more than $600.00 for a new one with gps and nav... I've seen them at the "super deals that cost $5.00 to get in" around here for $550.00 with software.)
The biggest problem with most of these navigation systems is that they use the really crappy maps from navtech corperation.. They make the worst map database on the planet... if the city is below 1,000,000 in population it isn't on the disc. and errors will stay there for years before they fix them.
The best nav-system I saw was a Q-pc car computing platform running linux and then running delorme with wine... it rocked, and the 4 year old disc database was perfectly useable if you were interested in addresses or routes...
only problem is that the Q-pc with display is about $3000.00.... ICK... anyone have a nice 4.5 inch 800X600 TFT lcd that can withstand -60degF and has touchscreen? I'll design the vehicle mounted computer.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Off-topic, most certainly is.
By the way, what do you want a boat for? Can't you walk on water like the rest of us? Tsk, tsk.
--This isn't a man who is leaving with his head between his legs.
Bet they're thinking of offering two levels of service: A more costly ad-free one and a less expensive spam saturated one.
You're using her as bait, Master!
Now that OnStar exports the real-time location data, there must be a rather massive data stream somewhere.
Now suppose I were to intercept that stream. I've always been able to find out data about your car from the DMV (tag #s, VIN, etc). I could then filter that stream for YOUR car, and know where you are at all times. Perhaps I could track you, and notice that you go down a country road everyday on the way to work.
It is a known method of the Mafia to kill people by placing a bomb in a road, and blowing up your car. Now, I could use that data stream to set up my device in a pothole on that country road without ever following you. Nobody ever sees me. I arm the mine with an RF link when you get near it, and it's all over.
-twb
In other news tonight, over 75% of OnStar subscribers are considdering canceling the service, or maybe just driving into the store window "to your left that has a great sale on plus size jeanes."
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
According to a poll at saab.com, 70% of current OnStar users do NOT plan on renewing their service after the first free year.
I know I won't - it's cute, but not worth the $$. They want $0.50/min for cell phone use on top of the annual fee! The GPS data is only available to the call center and the thing can't even set the time in the car!
This debacle was obviously created by a Marketing committe.
OK, there's usually several routes to a destination, unless it's mostly along so mething like a freeway.
You need to get from A to B, and could pass through C, D, E or F to get there. It now becomes a bidding war between advertsers at C, D, E and F to pay your nav software company to drive you past their location and be advertised at.
Not only are you getting opportunistic shoppers, they are driving themselves to you, when they meant to go elsewhere.
Of course, the city council might have something to say about the new road usage patterns. They would *not* like a procession of cars parading through residential neighbourhoods because the drivers are slavishly following nav software.
Now, why don't we take this further? In a trip of 5km, you really won't notice an extra 100m or so. Call this the "fuzz factor". An advertiser can pay a "fuzz fee" to have the route extended on a dollars-per-meter basis to bring in people who would not normally have passed on the "shortest path" route.
It's a feature to enhance your driving experience, therefore is good and you should be thanking the advertisers for the privelege of buying their products.
Why not? That's the basis of most IE and Windows "features" and the MS attitude to complaints about them.
Glen Harris
astfgl@iamnota.org
the concern is that now a database will know when and where I shop (not that certian places don't already have that, but still, I prefer to use cash and not give my name if asked).
I don't know, its just getting harder and harder to not have your daily activities tracked anymore.
...this just confirms that "a map" may be the best navigation system out there, if only because it's quiet.
And "a book" may be the best way to read a book, because you can carry it with you and read it wherever, even without violating the law.
What I'm afraid of is the day where you can't get 99% of the books in paper, and where cars come with always-on navigation and "security monitoring" systems which blare ads at you without your ability to stop it.
I'm not afraid of technology. I'm afraid of the dunderheads we have running our world, and what they will do with technology (or anything else).
-Rob
And, naturally, Mozilla is now spamming my web servers with requests for that darn IE-style "favicon.ico" crap in the latest 0.9.7 nightlies. IE at least only does it when people bookmark the page. Konqueror had had the same doubly rude behavior as Mozilla for a while, but almost nobody seems to use Konq.
I'd use the LINK element if I wanted browsers requesting icon files that don't exist.
Wait until they figure out how to take control of your car and make you stop at a location. At that point they'd make you get out, lock the doors for 15 minutes, and not let you back in until you show the in-car camera your receipt.
Well, you know what I'm gonna do, right? If I ever get a car with On Star, that thing is coming off. Even before the smog stuff.
what are you high?
urm 'big companies' have been 'spamming' since postal mail was invented you idiot, it's an accepted form of advertisement in every realm but the net, annnnnd guess why that is.
do a quick cross check of the maintainers of the black hole and rbl list and their stakes in 'email advertising' companies.
and oh, MSN and yahoo both love spam, you just have to pay them for the right to do it.
grow up and look around, the anti-spam movement is being spearheaded by people who spam, they just want you to pay for it.
Let me preface I'm a Chevrolet mechanic.
First Onstar uses the car's speakers. It stops the radio feed then the Onstar operator can speak to you through them. I don't think GM will brake into the radio signal just to send an add, sense this will only piss off paying customers. You have to pay for Onstar. The first year is free but after that it's a subscription.
Now how it works. It has 3 parts a GPS sender, a cell phone receiver, and a control module. The GPS sensor records the car's position. The control module calls the Onstar center every 10 minutes if memory serves. It will also send messages such as the air bag has gone off and the operator can call you assuming you still have power. There are also blue Onstar and red emergency buttons you can press to initiate a call.
Now there is a lot of Big Brother things that can be done with this system but I don?t think Spam is one that GM would stoop to. However I wouldn?t do anything illegal in an Onstar equipped vehicle.
No, OnStar is NOT going to deliver in-car spam. If you read the article, you'd read that 'OnStar, by far the biggest service with 1.5 million users, says it makes note of a car's location only in an emergency or when a driver makes contact with the service.' 'OnStar seems more interested in advertising that is tied to content.' The title of this story is blatantly incorrect, and the write-up is very misleading.
Onstar is considering putting ads that are related to their content, such as ads for a brokerage if you're getting stock quotes. That's pretty far from 'in-car spam' based on tracking your location.
The only thing in the article that resembles this is the 'gas station locator' by Wingcast, a service which hasn't even been launched yet. It would notify you when your car runs low on gas, and give you directions to gas stations. It's a useful feature, and I'm sure you'll have to sign up for it before they send you gas station ads.
Personally I'd object to ads mixed in with a service that I paid good money for, even if they're not based on your location. For a few hundred dollars a year, I expect a service that's free of annoyances. A gas station locator isn't an annoyance, it's a feature.
In the ad world this is known as pushing. The concept is to put ads where you never got them before. Cell phone, pager, and car when the radio is off, etc. They want you to see ads in church, on the beach, in the shower, and NASA is working on allowing commercial sponsorship of space missions. Can you see the Pepsi logo on the side of a rocket? I can.
It will get much worse. You know that networked refrigerator they keep telling us is going to come? It too will have ads.
Free software has ads. Spending on advertising is going down as people become trained to ignore them. Just 10 years ago there where 2 less minutes of commercials per 30 minutes of programming. You now see 6 times the number of ads you did 10 years ago (sorry can't think of the source).
Ads are getting more intrusive by the day. Remember when you would get your receipt and it would have coupons on the back? Those are too easy to tune out. Now you get a separate piece of paper with coupons on it.
You used to buy something and it would come with a free gift. That free gift has turned into a discount somewhere else. More advertising.
When will this change? It won't. What can you do to avoid all of this? Nothing. Well nothing unless you live like I do, which is not recommended.
o Text based browser.
o No pager
o No cell phone
o TV is not plugged in
o no VCR
o no DVD
o Listen to NPR, the ads here are even getting an out of hand for "commercial free programming"
o don't own a car
You see fewer ads on the bus because you can bury your head in a book and not have you eyes locked on the road where all those billboards, A-frame signs, and faux-hot-air balloons are.
o Don't shop at the big stores. Hit the thrift stores and antique stores.
o Eat at mom and pop places and not places with BigThemePark adverts on the tray liners, YBotherBox adds on the drinks and movie tie ins on the to go bags.
o and the list goes on.
To explain, no there is too much, let me sum up: This should come as no surprise.
Ascii artist &
So if they can track where your car is, I wonder if they will track what stores it is parked outside of? For example, you may go to the strip club for a couple hours each night. The next day, after picking the other people you car pool with, you drive past a Sex Store, and OnStar notifies you that they have a sale on videos and edible panties.
The difference between radio and the onstar thing is that the radio does NOT spontaniously turn itself on. You expect to hear stuff from it. you do not expect to hear OnStar speaking to you, so it is more distracting than the radiio in that respect. Plus, if a OnStar customer has no clue this is going to happen driving down a busy street with no one else in the car at the time they are likely to be freaked out hearing a voice within the car speaking to them.
Jusy myt opinion anyways...
-Henry
"Useless organic meatbag" -HK-47
In case you're wondering... no, this post has no point.
"...well lets see how the big companies play with this new wealth of information." -- As if you really need to ask that question. Although I'm sure it was done so facetiously. When will it all stop? Will it ever stop? Probably not. As long as there is money to be made, Big Business will be there to capture their unfair share of it.
And people wonder why Slashdot is going downhill.
TellMe also offers movie tickets via Fandango, which in my experience has something go wrong in almost every transaction. (Today: six minutes of voice interaction and credit card entry leads to "an unexpected error occured, transferring you to customer service... wait time at least ten minutes...").
I think the challenge of the post-Internet era is to re-implement the better ideas so that they don't suck.
Okay, I'm going to post this anonymously, since I'm not sure if any part of this is proprietary information, and I did sign an NDA-ish thing when I hired in. I don't think so, but you can't be too careful.
I work for EDS, which does technical infrastructure for the call centers and staffs the Michigan center with operators (advisors, as they're called for OnStar). The other call center is in Charlotte and is staffed by another personnel company: Sitel. I hired in as on OnStar enrollment advisor in July 1999, which means I didn't provide the end-user navigation and emergency support and stuff, but I put the customer information into the database and remotely configured the vehicle components. I did enrollements for OnStar until October 2000, where I switched over to doing enrollments for Lexus Link, which is exactly the same as OnStar, but has a different name. Also, it's, you know, in Lexus cars (or just one so far, actually). I left for a different job last month, so my information might be slightly out of date, but not significantly, surely.
Anyway, it's important to know how the hardware works. Basically, you've got 2 major components and a couple antennas. The first component they call the Vehicle Communications Unit (VCU), which is a cellular transceiver that sends and receives all the necessary information and commands to and from the OnStar center. The other main component is the Vehicle Interface Unit (VIU), which interfaces with the airbag, anti-theft, door locks, etc. The VIU also contains the GPS receiver, which continuously updates the vehicle location and also stores the last ten known locations to disk in case the GPS is unable to reach a satellite.
The OnStar unit is not constantly in contact with the center, and I don't think that would be possible since the VCU communicates through analog cellular towers, which would quickly become overloaded if they were all activated all the time. The only satellite communication that takes place is between the GPS receiver and the orbiting satellites. The actual location info is sent with the rest of the data (including voice) over the cellular network. This cellular network is, by the way, provided by Verizon in every market where they have analog cellular towers, which is just about all of them (Cingular and Verizon split the A and B sides in most analog cell markets).
For General Motors to know the location of a vehicle, it has to be connected to a workstation at an OnStar center. This connection can be initiated by the driver if they press the regular OnStar key or the emergency key, or the vehicle will connect automatically if the airbag deploys or the vehicle alarm goes off without being reset. Lexus cars also include a backup battery in case the battery is damaged in a front-end collision, but regular OnStar does not have this capability. Connection can also be established from the OnStar center. It is possible to connect to a vehicle and track its location or unlock its doors without the driver's knowledge or permission. The tracking of the vehicle without notification is used to recover stolen vehicles. It is not, however, possible to establish a voice connection to the non-Lexus car without the driver accepting the call. If the driver does not press the button with the white dot, it is not possible for General Motors or anyone else to speak to the passengers or hear what is being said in the car. Lexus Link, on the other hand, allows voice connections to be made without the driver's consent, though doing so mutes the car radio, so the driver will likely be aware anyway.
OnStar does not, by the way, include any kind of screen or other onboard navigation, so any ads that the Virtual Advisor service gives will be audio only. OnStar's navigation services are utilized by connecting to the center and being routed to your location by a live advisor. Drivers are not able to see any sort of map or other readout.
OnStar's customer information is stored on a large, slow, Oracle database. When I hired in, advisors used a custom application written in VB to navigate customers, retrieve information, and send commands. They've been gradually switching everyone over to a new application written in Java, which is slow, buggy, and difficult to use, all at the same time. The plan was to have everyone use the new application, except that the remote door unlock feature currently doesn't work unless you use the old app.
OnStar comes preinstalled on a whole bunch of GM (inlcuding Saab) cars, as well as Acuras and Lexuses. GM is trying to line up more OEMs all the time. OnStar used to be available as an installed option, but it is now only available as a factory option. Early, early, OnStar systems were actual handset phones, but those haven't been available new for quite some time. The current hardware is designed by Hughes and manufactured in Mexico by Delphi, and then sent to the factory where it is installed. Lexus and Saab cars have their units installed at the port when they arrive from overseas. To my knowledge, the Cadillac Catera has the OnStar system installed in the factory in Germany before it is shipped over, but I'm not sure of that.
There are two levels of OnStar service: Premium and Safety & Security. Premium is the good stuff, where you can call in and get directions and get someone to call ahead to restaurants and make you reservations and stuff like that, as well as all of the S&S services. Safety & Security is the stripped down service, where you can get the emergency services, stolen car tracking, remote door unlock -- all the boring stuff. Cadillacs come with one free year of the Premium service, and Saabs come with 3 months of Premium. Every other car with OnStar comes with one year of the Safety & Security, though it's possible to upgrade to Premium for $200. Tons of people who buy, say, a Pontiac that has OnStar in it will call assuming they can get directions or reservations or somesuch, and then become quite upset when they are hit up for two hundred bucks. After the free year is up, you can pay $199/year for S&S or $399/year for Premium.
To get the Virtual Advisor service that all this hubub about ads is about, you also have to sign up for OnStar's Personal Calling service. This allows you to make cellular phone calls through the OnStar system, though with no keypad you have to dial using a voice recognition unit. You have to prepay cellular minutes to have this work, the cheapest package being $19.99 for 30 minutes that will expire in two months whether used or not. I believe if you're willing to pay this ridiculous amount, I think you can get Virtual Advisor for no additional cost, assuming it's available in your area. Far as I can tell, if you're signed up for Virtual Advisor in any capacity, you will get these unsolicited ads. The current interface for customizing the Virtual Advisor doesn't have any relevant functionality, and the NYTimes article doesn't seem to suggest that an option will exist to have the rest of VA but not the ads. Basically, I think it's safe to assume that GM will do what they think they can get away with. If the ads start to hurt their customer base, they'll cut them back. If nobody gets upset, they'll remain.
There are certainly security and privacy concerns with the OnStar system, considering what it's capable of. It's not very useful for the third party, I wouldn't think, unless they had access to the OnStar database as well, since the data transmitted doesn't have any customer-specific information to speak of. GM has thus far been unwilling to track vehicles without the owner's permission unless given a court order, but it's really up to them. Same thing with door unlocks and database information and whatnot. It's all been safe so far, but who can say what will happen in the future. Right now, the biggest impediment to using the OnStar system in "big-brother" ways is the fact that it just plain doesn't work too well. There are daily outages in service, underpaid and undermotivated advisors, long waits at certain times of the day, and bad hardware to contend with.
Other than that, the best advice I can give to current OnStar users is to ask the advisor who comes on the line where they're located. If they say North Carolina, hang up and call back until you get someone in Michigan. Trust me, it's a huge difference. Anyway, hope this wasn't too long, but I figured some people here might be interested in this kind of info.
My Pontiac has a dashboard Garmin GPS connected to an old 133MHz pentium laptop stashed under the seat. I can pull it out and place it on the passenger seat to interact with it. Mostly I just upload the navigation data from Street Atlas to the dashboard GPS since its display is quite adequate for most road navigation. This system is obviously not embedded into the dashboard and radio system as the nice luxury sedan solutions, but then it also didn't cost neither an arm or a leg. Look on eBay for old GPS receivers and laptops, there's tons of them. I recommend Delorme Street Atlas - you get good reliable maps and there's no subscription fee or ads or anything.
I work them and know exactly what they do with the vehicle and the capabilities of the OnStar system from the telephony, database, and internet connectivity and can say with some degree of certainty without even reading this article that this is 99% BULLSHIT in it's purest form.
Yes, they can do funky stuff with locating the vehicle and tracking speed, direction, blah blah blah... But this can only be done when the driver asks for it. The code simply does not exist to be able to initiate this. The proof is in the large number of requests we get to locate some drug dealers car by the local Enforcement Agency and we have to decline the offer. We get multiple supeona's every day on this.
As for spam in the vehicle... The technology isn't practical at this point in time. Could it be done, everything *could* be done eventually. But to track someone's location and pump them with ads is not a realistic technology for years to come. By then, who knows what the ethics or business rules will be.
This article sucks! I think we should be more paranoid about the other problems we have with technology today. This is merely a pathetic diversion. And no, I am not going to get a bonus for doing the 'corporate shill' think.
I could give a twip less about any of this, it's just that I *know* what's going on and am sick of the Chicken Little stories that are running around in the news media. Do you realized I don't take sugar doughnuts into work because they might leave behind a "mysterious white powder"? bleah!
You know, I bought my 2001 Tahoe, which acme with 1 year of free Onstar.. never used it, have no need. But then NY decided to impose the cell phone ban, and i figured i would renew it for at least another year.. just in case i needed to use the cell feature. If the start spamming me with ads, Im going to ask for my money back. Its bad enough i find 20 flyers on my car every night when I get off the train, then get home to about 500 peices of junk mail, and then have to sift through email... i dont need it in the car..sorry onstar
How long will it be till HBO has commercials, along with the same concept that puts ads all over AOL's PAY internet connection software? Makes you want to pirate all of it...
Oh wait! That won't happen because AOL-Time-Warner-CNN-Netscape is a member of MPAA.
Curses! Foiled again!
You don't want to hear the radio advertisements, turn it off.
You don't want to hear the advertisements, turn off on-star. If they do implement advertisements, then there should be an option to completely turn it off, and use only the on-star feature.
Just my 2 rubles.
hooverrepairN0@SPAMhotmail.com
I generally get the good porn site spam. Mostly.
Face it, people are stupid, and the internet is the place where they all meet.