Slashdot Mirror
Hacker U.
Karma 50 writes: "What is claimed to be the world's first school for "hackers" has recently opened in Paris. Run by the magazine hackerz voice, for $60 or so you will be taught the fine art of breaking into systems. Google will do some translation of the course details. The local police are said to be "watching the school with interest"."
I'm guessing the US as well as other counties will see it as a "threat"
Fp?
this must be some kind of a joke ..
/. story. How can you pretend to be a serious 'hacking school' when your homepage uses l33t sp34k and states that the 'school' itself has a black pirate flag pirate flag on the front and graffiti inside ?
:)
I wonder how it made it to a
it all becomes clear when you look at the intended audience : http://www.dmpfrance.com/zh05.JPG 31337 isn't it
Here.
I heard about that on national TV. It's just lame.
HackerZvoice is just a crappy "magazine", 20 pages long. It contains usefull tips like "How to bypass the Windows 98 password in 30 seconds" or "How to mount an publicly shared NFS drive remotely and feel 3l33t".
It makes me ashamed to live in France. Hopefully we don't have the DMCA over here...
Nobox: Only simple products.
Send your script kiddie to obedience school!
Bad script kiddy! BAD!
What a joke. That school is nothing but a bunch of wannabe haXor script kiddies. All their classes are for newbies and I'm certain that's all they'll get - a bunch of 14 year old newbies.
:-P pppft, if you're just learning linux now, maybe you'll be a hacker in 3-4 years. Being an elite haX0r isn't about taking a class, its about pushing yourself to learn crazy computer stuff that normal people wouldn't have the motivation to do.
Yay! I want to take their $60 introduction to Linux class
Here we also have schools where people learn basic system intrusion techniques and run around acting "l33t". They're called high schools.
CyberArmy is a similar outfit for the training and promotion of hacking knowledge. From their homepage:
Welcome to CyberArmy - an independant army / union of over 50,000 Internet users, fighting for a free and independant internet. We need more recruits, so join the CyberArmy now! With our online promotional system you can gain officer status in the CyberArmy and take more part in mission proposals, missions, and division commands. Over the following months, we will be focussing our efforts against governmental controls over the net. To re-state the philosophy of the CyberArmy:
CyberArmy is a group of netizens who believe in a deregulated Internet, which is free from external control. We believe in providing tools to assist others who believe in a free Internet - we support Open Source. We campaign against those who abuse the free nature of the Internet. We believe that spammers, child pornographers, web based scammers, and malicious hackers are enemies of the Internet. We believe that the Internet can be self-regulated, and that we, as equipped and knowledgable netizens, can control and suppress abusers of the Internet, with legal methods, by consolidating together as a united CyberArmy.
Maybe it's only me, but I don't see this "school" giving real hackers a good name.If anything, it'll validate the notion that hackers are malicious losers.
On another note, if this school is shut down, I am sure that the readers of Slashdot won't mind, while if it was in America and was shut down, people would be crying: "America is evil! Burn it! Save the Taliban!" Seriously, people would be taken more seriously if they didn't act as if America was the evil Babylon while condoning the governments of China, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, and of course, the Taliban.
You die too easily.
Do they teach you how to get first post?!
"The local police are said to be "watching the school with interest"."
Right on! That means when you graduate you get two pieces of paper: A diploma and an arrest warrent! Better strip out of those robes before the court date. Don't want the judge to think you are trying to impersonate him or anything.
Why the fuck does this appear on /.? EVERYBODY with half a clue in computer stuff laughed at these guys here in France, and cursed the journalists who gave this losers such exposure.
They are just a bunch of lame'o script kiddies wannabe.
Just to give you an idea of their stupidity, their publication (Hacker'Z voice) has been repeatedly caught publishing others' articles (see for example this article at linuxfr.org) calling it their own work.
The most striking example of their kiddie-ness is probably their spelling (both in French and English); I know, I know, flaming someone on spelling isn't exactly glorious, but when the ratio goes above one spelling error per word (and I'm not making this up), you've seriously got to wonder.
Oh, but wait! They're even more sorry fucks than you'd think. Look at their über-zekure registration form for their university: yoohoo, ACTION="mailto:...". Those guys can't even get fucked to install SSL!
Couple links for completeness:
Hacker Z Voice site
Hacker U site
They're teaching the fine art of "hacking", which is according to them, "breaking into systems". The true term for that is "cracking", and if they don't know the proper name of what they are teaching, how can anyone possibly take them seriously about the content they are teaching?
Also, I would think that "the fine art of hacking" would cost more to learn than a mere $60.
Hacking is a Good Thing. It teaches skills and leads to important security holes being filled. By learning about these holes, everyone benefits with the joys of greater knowledge (wooo! Alturistic :) ) But there are already places where you can learn hacking. They call themselves: Universities.
A lot of courses (at least the ones I have seen) provide a foundation in how to hack, simply because it is the only way to make sure that any systems you create are secure, and tests new technology as well. For example, I've seen two Universites here in the UK that do this. At the University of Bristol, they are researching into how to hack smart chips, whilst University of Nottingham let you try and hack their network. Of course, this is all built into a well-rounded course teaching students Computer Science.
Where does that leave the idea of "hacking schools"? It puts them quite definitely in the malicious camp. If these people were hacking to increase their skills, they would be taught other things at the same time (ala University). But this "school" is starting people out with hacking, and giving a few lessons in C and Linux for those that don't know. It's not about being a better computer user, it's about being a better hacker, which can only be used for the more nefarious of purposes.
From their site:
... for their INTRUSION and WILD classes, I guess, they've got plenty of teachers for NEWBIE level already I guess.
"The courses are spread into three different difficulty levels:
- NEWBIE (sic)) for newbies
- WILD (sic) for middle level
- INTRUSION for the élite"
...
Somewhere else:
INTRUSION: courses to be available alter
...
They're hiring
It almost perfectly imitates the way that supposedly "french" people talk in English-speaking movies and series such as Cafe Rene.
Not necessarliy a good thing though. I've seen that series.
On the bottom of this page you'll find the following text:
Last news, special a Newbie course "Language C" has been just assembled.
You gotta love automated language translation!
Hmm, wait a minute - a non-techie english speaker might write the same thing, lol.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Bleh - im tired of hearing the word 'Hacker' being used the wrong way - and you all probably know what i mean by that.
;)
What they do - it seems - at this school is just teaching security issues the other way around. There are tons of private institutions and public universities that teach computer security but they dont call it hacking. Hacking/cracking are buzzwords at the moment and therefore it might make a crappy institution seem cooler.. Though i doubt any "real" hacker/cracker would attend to that school. They already learned whatever they might teach over there from publicly aviable info on the internet. In My Opinion that's the way you should learn security issues aswell.
I find it doubtful that anyone would turn into a hacker pro just by paying $60 for a few courses in hacking - its like saying an MSCE is a guru
--H
If you're stupid enough to give this group of degenerate skript kiddies your credit card, does it really matter whether you use the net or the phone? They're going to scam you anyway.
but this would be considered a Cracking school, not a Hacking school. A Hacking school would teach logic, problem solving, and finding unusual solutions to everyday problems. If we expect the public to differentiate the two, we have to lead by example.
...which teaches you, amongst other things, how to invent false credit card details and fiddle your mobile phone bills.
...if you want to pay by credit card, do it over the phone.
Furthermore, I find this article to be full of horrible and misleading information.
At the end, they hope to have improved their "white hat" or good pirate - skills.
Ok... What exactly is a 'good pirate'? For that matter, how does piracy (or hacking for that matter) even enter into this article.
Nevertheless, "Clad" is adamant that he teaches only ethical hacking skills.
Umm... Yeah. Right. There are perfectly ethical reasons to do these things.
"For me", he says, "it is enough to know I can break into a system, without crossing the line into illegality."
Breaking into a system is illegal. Even if it's not in the country where you live, there is no way that it's ethical. But at least the article presents a consenting view on this.
Hacking is illegal.
That's like saying thinking is illegal.
"I teach them ethical values," Clad Strife told me. "It's not my responsibility if they use my information to do something illegal at home.
I disagree. If you teach a trade that is very likely to be used for malice, it is your responsibility to make sure that you teach it to people who will not misuse it. For example, in the U.S. military, there are weeks of training in which discipline is taught. We don't just give anyone machine guns and send them off. If you were teaching bomb making to your neighbors, you would be a bit more caring to make sure that they behave responsible!
"[Cracking] is not fundamentally illegal. After all, when you're driving a car, you can knock someone over and kill them, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to have driving lessons, does it?"
Umm... No. Your argument does not hold up. Using the logic in reverse you see the flaws. "Hitting people with cars is not fundamentally illegal. After all, when you surf the internet, you might break into someone's computer. But that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be taught to use the computer, does it?" That's just rediculous.
Anyone sending these KIDS their credit card numbers has more to worry about than whether the internet or phone is more secure.
As the school's website says, paying over the internet isn't secure.
Yeah. You wouldn't want the wrong people to have your credit card number! ROFLMAO.
As the school's website says, paying over the internet isn't secure.
Those hackers dont know about SSL? (-;
This school of H4X0Rs is to legit hacking what icyhotstuntaz are to legit rap.
See the comparison for yourself:
http://stuntaz.cjb.net/
Better yet, don't. Just forget about it....
Beware your assumptions. If you think somebody with a handle of "cybrpnk" is automatically a lamer living in a fantasy world modeled on the movie "HACKERS", then you're wrong. It's just a label, CmdrTaco was taken. I posted the link because the ideals of Slashdot and Cyberarmy are very similar, one is just trying to take a more proactive stance than the other, and the same type of people are likely to be interested in both. Attempting to organize individual users to speak up for their interests is ALWAYS a good thing, particularly in a time of Echelons and Carnivores and Magic Lanterns. Think of organizations like Cyberarmy in evolutionary terms: lots of things are tried, the strong flourish, but all were necessary for progress. And speaking of lame labels, a case could be made that Anonymous Coward is the lamest label of all...
The french course appears to be aimed at crackers rather than legitimate white hat hackers. I doubt it will last long at that price, the first true crackers who attend the course will rip off the material.
Before too long the dweebs will come to the same realisation that the l0pht did, that there is much more money to be made on the enterprise side. They will then get VC, set up a carbon copy of @stake and start wearing suits according to Zeinfeld's law: security consultants who are ex-NSA or MI5 wear jeans and a T shirt, security consultants who are ex-hackers wear suits.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
What is claimed to be the world's first school for "hackers" has recently opened in Paris.
If that was true it would be great, since we already have schools against hackers.
Oh, wait. The article was about a school for crackers
Help savingAmigaOS and a free PowerPC market
This is just great. Anyone who has read Hackerz V0ice once knows they are just a bunch of lamerz who think they are the master of the Internet just because they know how to use Back Orrifice.
e adid=22
Hackerz V0ice (the magazine) is a piece of crap explaining how to use 3 years old "exploits" (hear : "windows trojans") in s0M Scr1Pt K1dY l4n64g3 50 FuL of M15T4kz I have to re-read sentences twice to understand what they mean.
The best part is that they think the represent the french "kackerz" (as if these guys were hackers) and advise anyone to rally their "movment". They want to be the french CCC, but they are just another group of computer illeterates who are trying to make money out of the Lin00X/Int3rn3T/conspir4Cy/"Micr0S0ft Sux" trend.
To bad only french sites talk about this magazine, you'll have to use babelfish, but *please* have a look at :
- http://www.kitetoa.com/_disc1/showthread.php3?thr
- news:fr.comp.securite
Well, as others said, you're not going to learn how to hack in a week for $60. But it can be taught.
My university actually does teach classes on hacking, or as they call it 'information warfare'. Not 'security' mind you, 'warfare'. Of course, it's a grad program... you'll need a degree before you can even take it...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
It is in essance a great thing that there is a school for hacking where you can pay to learn. The problem is that this might cause more problems for computer users because in so many circles the word "Hacker" is such a touchy subject already. Isn't it possible that creating a school is going to increase already tightening regulations?
We have been teaching cracking as part of our computer forensics course for 2 years now. At first the FBI used to come along but now they have set up their own courses so I know that there are courses running in the US as well. The only diffence is this one lets anyone and his dog join in whereas we only accept police and customs agencies.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Nobody denies that security through obscurity is a flawed concept.. so surely the more kids out there who know how to stress test a computers security, the more we are going to see systems made more secure.
Given how much free information is available on the web anyway, and how easy it is to get involved in those "elite" hacking groups, this "school" isn't doing anything more than making it a little bit easier for the lads whilst taking some of the load off their wallets.
The internet was never "free and independent" (watch that spelling!) from the start, so you're running under false assumptions.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
watch that server go up in smoke, just by coincidence.
Given the french law, which does have a tendency to be draconian, and given the recent change in the security environment, it might have been safer to open a school for aspiring criminals, or something.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I gaurantee this hacking school will attract a lot of genuine soon-to-be kiddies and nothing but negative exposure for the school itself. As everyone here is saying, they seem to be teaching more of a cracking style than hacking or security. I would seek out a more reputable source of education if I wanted to learn more than "the fine art of breaking into systems". Security education at @stake just doesn't compare to the quality you get at Xintra. You're not going to go to fast-food for gourmet.
While they still won't know how to flip the power switch, they'll know how to jam something metal into it so they can be uber-l33t (didja know your computer was located the upper left corner of that glowing thing you're sitting on?) when they realize that thick cord popping out of their 'puter is supposed to be connected to the wall.
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
"It is about time people give up what they think is right usage and give in to popular usage."
It looks like use of the term "cracker" is *starting* to come into popular speech. I caught that TV show "Mutant X" (sort of a pseudo-X-Men, but not as smart) actually use the term "cracker" for someone that breaks into computers. Not much, but it's a start.
Now if Andromeda would've actually used the term "kluge" correctly . . .
They're also usually the most draconian people when it comes to security, even though the security measures they impose usually are of questionable value. The running joke at the company where I work is that I/S will finally be happy with security when they've taken away our keyboards. Their own systems will be have modems with the telephone number on a piece of tape outside their office and no root or admin password.
At least with a crash course they'll learn to see what the real problems are and why its a good idea to keep a positive rapport with those in the companies who are hackers.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
I know, I know. Mod me down. I had to say it.
A quick search after submitting the story turned up these articles
http://www.thehungersite.com
Why do I get the feeling that all my friends would laugh at me if I pursued an education at Hacker U?
-Legion
the "University of Copulation" otherwise know as...
FSCK U.
(insert rimshot)
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Granted, this may not be the ideal group to be doing this, but I dont think there's anything necessarily wrong with a hack school. I, for example, am not a hacker. I am very good with computers, I've been using them all my life, but I couldnt hack to save my life. Is it because I havent spent enough time working with computers? I doubt it. With most computer things, I can just see what I'm doing, and it's easy, but I simply dont understand hacking. It is still a skill I would find invaluable, as I intend to move into network security as my field of work. I would love to be able to sign up for some classes on hacking, taught by hackers. While these guys may not be the people we want to do it, the idea seems fine with me. As far as concern about script kiddies and the like... they dont need a class to be able to do what they do. That's the whole idea behind their title. They can already just point and click, so why would they bother with a hacking class? Even if they did take it, what are the odds that such people would actually pick up anything? They tend to be the more lazy among us, so I seriously doubt they would go wholeheartedly into the class.
> but this would be considered a Cracking school,
> not a Hacking school.
Sounds more to me like it's going to be a skr1p7-k1dd13 sk001. Do you really think the implications, and exploitation, of buffer overflows and IP spoofing can be tought in a short course? I suppose they could have a list of prerequisites...
More likely they're teaching things like how to get an IP from a domain name and how to get and use the latest skr1p7z.
call it cracking.
Sorry if there's a zero-body post, but I hit
the return button while still in Subject line.
It's called cracking, and not hacking, for
certain reasons which all are outlined in the
Jargon file at http://www.ccil.org/jargon/
and for which its author has my full ACK.
My Karma isn't excellent, damn it! (And
The simple fact is, cutting edge security training is valuable, whether or not it is taken from a hacker's perspective or that of someone who wants to keep hackers out. A System Administrator could glean a lot of good information by attending Hacker's school: "Know thine enemy" applies here in a very big way. If you learn how to find a security breach in order to hack into a system, you can find the same breach and fix it: if you know how to hack, and understand the techniques involved, it becomes a lot easier to defend against those techniques.
What's in a Sig?
http://www.uact.edu/ has a Net Defense program.
What`s much funnier than this course are the snobbish comments coming from many Slashdot posters. Almost all attacks on systems come from so called script kiddies i.e. someone who didn`t work out the security flaw themselves. How many Slashdot posters have actually broken into a system without using some prior knowledge gleaned from another programmer - if it`s one percent I`d be more than surprised.
Will you zealots learn that 'hacker' has different contexts, and that the majority of people view someone who breaks into computers as a 'hacker', therefore, THATS A VALID MEANING.
You know.. I used to think that.
But I have yet to see one, single security-minded 'hacker' tackle a real sysadmin job and do it any differently than those he previously lambasted for being 'dumb'.
I think "Universities" like these are a great idea. Finally, a place to teach people the hard way not to be stupid!
Its like those Smart Pills you find on the ground in the woods. You know, the ones which turn out to be rabbit poop?
"Look at me, I invented the stove!" -- Ben Franklin
Nope - no property is damaged. I'd say the original analogy is pretty much correct. Merely "breaking into" a system is just wandering around it, seeing what's around. It doesn't matter if you just opened a door or went through the ducts - there was no damage.
Last post!
Wait a sec. how do they do l33t speak in french... half the characters used it l33t speak for vowels are just accented french letters... So the words aren't gunna look much different
A rabbit in the hand is worth 4 in the cage
I'm trying to answer that.. but I don't see what you mean.
Definitions in the english language are based on what is generally accepted as the meaning of said words. Many words evolve into having many different meanings.
"Hacker", to most people in the English world, means someone who 'hacks into computers'
So anyone who's read much Slashdot knows that lots of folks get worked up over the distinction between the words "hacker" and "cracker". My question: Is this and English language only thing? Do any other languages have 2 words and constant debate over which means what? If so, do any of the automated translation engines get it right?
is the best $60 I ever spend. If you got 60 dollars in your pocket go to Handsome Boy Modeling School. If it wasn't for Prince Paul and Automator I'd be modelling in Albania or some Balkan country, still.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
Ok, maby its just a language thing. I'm not french, so I don't know. But come on, "Clad Strife"? What's with that?
There is a new French Language school opening. For $60.00 they will teach you the meaning of phrases like "me casa es su casa", and how to count, such as "Uno, Dos, Tres
In other words
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Many companies have offered hacker training classes for ages now. At the moment, Ernst & Young, Foundstone, Global Knowledge and many other companies offer classes that will teach you how to break into systems.
Kevin "Cash Money" Spett
Ignore your rights and they go away.
these guys are completely lame. they make it seem that they can break into any system. want my IP guys? please no packet bombs.
weren't these types called kidhacks in the early eighties when BBS's were popular?
Yes, that also came to my mind... saw an article about this one in german television about one year ago or so. I guess the french "hacker school" isn't very good because they are definetly not up to date ;-)