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The Hype of the Rings
With the Fellowship of the Rings just around the corner, the Slashdot Submissions bin is overflowing with stories about the
film since it premiered in the UK already for you lucky brits. If you don't mind a little spoilage, here is
the guardian's review, the BBC review, the telegraph review, some pictures from the premiere, and one last review. Also, Scifi.com is reporting that
the film has already been pirated. The reviews have their nitpicks, but on the whole its looking good. M : LOTR tattoos!
are they going to make a Hobbit movie to go along with them ?
THERE IS NO DATA. THERE IS O
It opens next Wednesday -- wanna try to /. a movie theatre???
Cthulhu Barata Nikto
This sort of thing often drags some of the enjoyment out of these films. Sell. Sell. Sell. I guess, someone's gotta come up with crap for eBay and Flea Markets.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I'm just sick of seeing those commercials for the light-up goblets; it cheapens the film before it's even out. Not that it will prevent me from seeing it, but GEESH people give it a break. Same goes for all the lame Shrek commercials. I really liked that movie, but hate the fact that they sold out to a fast-food chain.
Wooden armaments to battle your imaginary foes!
"All members of the cast have got a tattoo. When we had it done in a tattoo parlor in Wellington, New Zealand, we all swore never to tell anyone,' he told Reuters Television
What part of "swore never to tell anyone" did he not understand?
Actually, the text of the Guardian review is here.
No shit its been pirated already. im sure ive seen some releases of it floating about the divx/vcd trading groups for at least a week. i mean, this has got to be one of the biggest films for a long time, its hot stuff to get your hands on.
:) i wouldnt watch a crappy copy of it.
some of these people have links right in the film industry and can easily get films before they are released. just dont count on dvd quality though.
so its no suprise that people are flogging copies of it already. its probably been running rampant through south east asia for weeks. i know when i lived there it wasnt hard to get movies on vcd before they were released.
cant wait to see this movie in the cinema though
Please, geeks, leave your computer, go to a theater, mix with fellow geeks and lovers and LOTR and watch this in a theater, 40 feet wide in Dolby, as it was meant to be seen. Who knows, you may even like meeting other people!
what self-respecting /.'er doesn't know how this movie ends?
(Lemme open up by saying I may or may not agree with what I am about to say. This sort of duplicity makes me an excellent candidate for political office.)
So far, I've seen the Burger King glasses, the action figures, a great many re-published copies of the book with the movie as the cover. I've seen the board game, the cartoon, the ten-minute TNT blip, the one-hour Sci-Fi blip. The bedsheets are on order at my local K-Mart, the costumes are being put on back-order, the card game is selling briskly, and the pornographic feature based upon the film is in high demand at the local adult bookstore.
All this stuff (with the possible exception of the porno) goes to help defray the insanely high intial costs of the trilogy. Keep in mind, for those of you who've been living in a cave since, oh, the last millenium, that they a) shot all three films at once and therefor WILL be released; b) they cost a LOT of money. If you think that $6000 for a Microsoft-proof laptop is a painful yet fun investment, think that the studio coughs up mega-million dollar budgets with shocking regularity. In fact, I'm torn on whether the casinos or Hollywood are the folks to duplicate for the handling of insanely large quantities of cash.
The crap has a double purpose. It gets people Movie Stuff, and simultaneously promotes the film.
I used to be someone else. Now I'm someone better.
Real life is underrated.
I just hope they didn't recycle Jar Jar Binks and use him as Gollum.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
We name our servers after LOTR caracters... one day someone asked what type of network we were using. The answer:
Tolkien Ring
Beware TPB
That's what it cost to produce the films. That's a 'bet the studio' cost. If they don't recover most of that cost early, then The Two Towers and Return of the King will be straight to video releases.
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Nazgul chasing hobbits on a dock
Probably at the ferry after they leave Farmer Maggot's house.
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> So, will it beat Harry Potter?
Only if they successfully market it as a kiddie movie. Adults who have read LOTR will see it in droves, but kiddie movies have the advantage that the adults have to go along anyway when they take the kids.
The despised TV actionware/gobletware commercials seem to imply that they are trying to market it to the kiddie audience, though.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I'm not sure I quite understand why New Line decided to open the movie earlier in UK? Peter Jackson is a Kiwi and most of the other principal characters behind the movie are not Brits, except of course Tolkien himself. So, was Peter Jackson over-anxious to hear it from the Brithish high priests? Or was it plain simple strategy following Harry Potter's early release in the UK. And while on that, its interesting to ponder that British literature is all of a sudden stealing the spotlight from cheap American paperback-films. It did take Tolkien and his modern-age counterpart, Rowlings though :)
I'll admit I was worried after reading stories like Feedback: Not the subtractions, but the additions about changes made to the story during the making of the film.
But after hearing last nights interview with Peter Jackson on World News for Public Television, my fears have been allayed. Jackson was asked what John Ronald Raoul would have thought about the movie. Peter said (approx.), "I hope he'd see the love we put into it over the years. But I think he'd be grumpy about many of the changes we had to make."
He seemed to have a deep understanding of Tolkien the man, and was quite aware that he'd meddled with literature that had been canonized. The seriousness with which he approached his task impressed me.
The Yahoo article doesn't mention this, but this month's print issue of Empire Magazine did. The Fellowship actors' tattoos all depict the Tengwar symbol for 9. (Tengwar being Tolkien's Elvish alphabet; you can see what it looks like here.)
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
As a LOTR enthusiast on slightly the wrong side of fanatical, what should I do?
/. majority. So go ahead, please cast votes 1, 2 or 3 as an AC.
[ ] Not go and see any of the films - it would corrupt my imagination
[ ] Wait until 2002, and see all three films in one 9 hour sitting.
[ ] Stop being a nincompoop and go and enjoy the film.
This may look like a joke, but I am serious. I will stand bye the
Also, some more purist than me are apparantly a bit pissed off. They cook tomatoes in the film (gasp - a new world fruit!) and the elves have a penchant for polyurethane garden accessories. Furthermore, how come is it that I post all but one of the links given in the parent (about 12 hours ago), but my comment gets rejected?
I mean, if you're a big enough fan to spend however long it takes to download a 700mb DiVX AVI, aren't you probably going to go to the theater several times, just so you can see it on the big screen, the way it was 'meant' to be seen? Aren't you also going to buy the 2 DVD Box Set collector's edition next year and have all-night Fellowship of the DVD parties watching it over and over again with all your closest geek buddies?
Case in point.... if your an anime fan: I just bought 2 $25 DVD's this week. One was the Utena Movie and the other was the 'Oh My Goddess' movie. Neither is 'perfect' in the way that most fanboys will perceive any one of the 3 LOTR movies. Still, they are fun movies. Before they were released in the U.S., however, I obtained low-quality DivX and VCD anime fansubs of these two titles.
Even though I 'pirated' the movies, the American dub/sub houses and indirectly, the Japanese studios, still got their money from me.
Therefore, I encourage *true* Tolkein Fanboys and everyone else who plans to eventually legitimately see or buy this movie to download it to your heart's content
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
After you get past all of that "crap" the story really takes off. Patience, Young Skywalker...
If this ring was so incredibly important, why did they give the job of getting rid of it to a small person with no military experience, who had never been outside his home village before in his life? Why didn't they at least give him a frekaing map?
-- the most controversial site on the Web
It was brilliant chosing for Boromir someone who wanted to play Aragorn. That's the perfect way to get into the character...
Oh, wait. This movie looks cool. Never mind! Give them your money!
Trust me, I'm going to pay to see the movie.
I might also download the crappy DiVX, but I'll pay to see it first.
The two aren't necessarily exclusive, 'ya know? I can't see *any* fan of Tolkien being happy watching only a low-quality copy of LoTR on a computer screen.
The other day, on hearing from a friend of mine that his local IMAX would be showing Fellowship on opening night, I called the one near me (the Branson IMAX) to see if they were doing the same.
The person I talked to had apparently never heard of either the book or the movie. It was all "Fellowship of the what?" And this person works at a movie theater. Sheesh.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
So are poatatoes and tobacco.
Yet Another Web Site
Ash nazg durbatulúk,
ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulûk
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
Interesting that they've had some serious linguists working on the film though - here's the discussion site for their languages.
I gave up waiting for their merchandise, and just had the ring poem printed on some of my own-design T-shirts. Much cooler than having corporate-inspired stuff!
I am very tempted by the replicas of Sting. Unfortunately they weigh far too much to fight with, and they're really easy to dint. Oh well...
maegnass ess nin, dagnir yngyl im (my name is Sting, I am slayer of spiders)
That's because rotoscoping was a retro-technique that Linklater dug up, not because Bakshi was _that_ cutting edge. It was invented in the mid 70's IIRC. Bakshi just appropriated the technique (and improved it) for his own use.
And to be honest, the Bakshi version is a butchering of the story. He himself admits it. He started animating the first one under the auspices of a studio who then changed their mind and canceled the project. He was almost finished the first movie then, but he thought that it wouldn't make sense by itself without the others. So, on his own time and money, he quickly wrote in and animated the most important scenes from the last two books, giving it the 'squeezed' feeling that bugged me even back when I was a kid. The results were less than stellar by his own admission.
-Seraph
p.s I thought the Bashi film was terrible.
After the success of the hobbit, Bantam books sent a letter to Mr. Tolkien saying, "we want more hobbits" because of the popularity.
Despite its greatness, LOTR was made to meet the demand. It was written FOR THE MONEY!
It sucks that J.R.R. Tolkien stooped to the level of making money? Okay. Then I guess you better not read anything he ever wrote published by Bantam books given his consent. That means it was for the money, otherwise he would have just given it away for free.
I suppose all that leaves is his unfinished works, which he only showed to his friends and family and which was published after his death.
Art and literature are seldom for their own sake, for we are all forced to work until we eat dust.
You might say that marketing dilutes creativity. Who are you to say what is creative? Most of the marketing people I know put a lot of creative thinking into their work - commercials are no exception; a lot of creative effort has been put into using the characters in a way to sell the product. Perhaps if you looked for the "art and literature" within the commercials, you wouldn't get sick looking at them.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
So was Disney. In Snow White and The Seven Dwarves. That was in 1937. Rotoscoping is nothing new at all, and wasn't at the time of Bakshi either.
If I get nothing more from this movie than Gimli wreaking havoc, spilling orc blood, and splitting orc skulls with his axe, it will be worth the seven dollars for the ticket.
Of course I don't expect it to be completely true to Tolkien's writing. Movie makers tend to take liberties with everything. (I would say that Pearl Harbor and Titanic come to mind, but that would mean I would have to admit having seen them!) I'm going to go see this movie with the sole purpose of being entertained. I'm not going to analyze how it deviates from what Tolkien wrote. I'm going to see this movie purely for the entertainment value. Unless they MAJORLY change the story, I think I'll be happy with what I see. Then again, the wrong filmmaker could MAJORLY change the story.
I'm waiting to pay my $7 until the week AFTER it opens though, just to miss most of the hype.
.sig wanted. Inquire within.
I would give an attribution if I had seen one. Probably it's evolved from several sources.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
I didn't read the review myself (I hate when they give away the ending! ;-) ), but Entertainment Weekly gave it a grade of "A". Click here for the full review.
----
WWJD...For a Klondike Bar?
There's a page out there where you can download the font for the various tolkein languages.
http://home.earthlink.net/~darrenv/tolkein.html
It dosen't look quite as cool as the guilded cursive elven runes on all the merchandise, but what do you want for free?
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
Does anyone know if they plan to release the DVD of the first film soon after the movie premiere, or if they wait releasing all the DVDs until all the films have been shown?
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
I am really disappointed to hear of the changes that have been made to a story that has stood on it's own for 50+ years. One of the things about the story is the depth that Tolkein gave to the characters, and the variety of characters (ie Tom Bombadil)
I think changing the characters is even worse. Having Arwen take the place of Glorfindel is a MAJOR change, one which can and probably will ruin the movie for me.
Yes, I am a fanatic about this. But after waiting for 20 years for someone to have the nerve to make this movie, the least we can expect is that they remain true to the story.
"I cannot read the fiery letters," said Frodo in a quavering voice.
"No," Said Gandalf, "but I can. The letters are Elvish, of course, of an ancient mode, but the language is that of Mordor, which I will not utter here. They are lines of a verse long known in Elven-lore:
I think what might happen is if the trilogy is a success is they might go back and do a hobbit movie.
But after they finish the LotR series (it's really NOT a trilogy), what two stories will JRRT's descendants write to fill in the gap between The Hobbit (i.e. episode 1) and LotR (i.e. episodes 4 through 6)? And what changes will be made in LotR: Special Edition?
Will I retire or break 10K?
For those of you who wargame means a table, miniatures and being at least somewhat social, as opposed to cranking up Command & Conquer, you'll be happy to know that Games Workshop has published a Lord of the Rings 'battle game'.
Normally, I could give less than a damn for Games Workshop, authors of generally schlocky games that are remarkable mostly for their steal-your-wallet market strategy. ( Literally hundreds of expansions, miniatures, all at insane prices. ) But, I've been in need of something new, so I picked up the game for $40 at my local Barnes and Noble.
That's the first shock. Wargames, at national retail outlets. The second shock, was that this game, unlike GW's other forays, has a certain measure of dignity to it. Gone are the gonzo tactics and arms race mentality of Warhammer 20,000.
The second shock is the rulebook, itself. The book is easy to read, and provides everything a novice could ever need, including extensive information on how to paint plastic and metal miniatures, and pictures from the movie on every page. A spoiler warning, the scenarios are taken right from the movie's screenplay, it seems, so, if you don't want to know how the director visualized, say, the Battle at Roundtop, don't buy this game, yet.
Of course, with such a low cost, there is a drawback.. The initial box set's miniatures are comprised of plastic. With a generous coat of painting, and delicate handling, however, they do quite well. I had wondered why the box was so light when I picked it up.
From a more cynical point of view, I noticed the expansions for LoTR have already started coming out, done entirely in lead-free metal, at the usual insane costs. $40 for eight miniatures depicting the principal fellowship of the ring, for example. It is admirable seeing that Games Workshop has done an excellent job of selling the foundation of the game for cheap, potentially introducing new gamers to the classic wargame genre, but one has to be a little skeptic whether GW will burn them out with the followup.
Weapons of Mass Analysis
I think the system we have, with copyright expiring after a while, is the correct system: that way the artist knows his immediate family profit from his work and not faceless corporations.
Immediate family, immediate profit. Copyright should last life plus TEN years (long enough for the family members to learn to produce more works), not life plus 70. However, Constitution 1.8.8 as interpreted by the Eldred v. Ashcroft court recognizes the lifetime of the Universe less a day as an adequate "limited time."
Americans: please write your representative and senators, asking them to repeal the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Oh please do shut up.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
...buy the book. The Tolkein estate sold the movie rights a long time ago, and are probably not getting a wholehelluvalot out of the movie (other than increased book sales).
Greetings!
I don't know what these books and movies are about. Like almost anyone in the western world, I've seen the books and heard of the movies, but I have no idea about the plot other than what I gathered from the books' dust covers. I particularly don't understand how these fantasies are more appealing than Star Wars, Conan the Barbarian, or the Beastmaster. The story line I've read hasn't compelled me to buy the books yet. What am I missing?
Friends of mine in central Russia gather once a month to enact scenes from LOTR; they have armours, swords, and other paraphernalia. I've seen some photos they took and it looks like a great role-playing game.
What surprised me most was that my girlfriend is a photography/modeling student, with zero geek quotient, and yet she's made me promise to take her to see LOTR on opening night (she hasn't read the books either). There is some deeper cultural phenomenon here that escapes me, and I would appreciate a quick intro from someone here on /. who is knowledgeable on LOTR.
Profile: My fantasy diet includes Star Wars, Harry Potter, Matrix, and all kinds of Gothic literature (from Carmilla to Sonja Blue). I deeply dislike Star Trek because it isn't good fantasy or good, hard sci-fi; it's something sort of middle of the road. My SciFi tastes include Arthur C. Clarke, Phillip K. Dick, Ursula LeGine (sp?), Harlan Ellison, Robert Heinlein, Elizabeth Moon, Melissa Scott, Neal Stephenson, etc.
Thanks in advance,
Ehttp://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
Actually the Estate will receive royalties. Funny that, since they've refused to help with the movie in any way, and even outcast the one member of the family that disagreed, but that's the deal old man Tolkien worked out... one time payment of $250,000 plus royalties.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
I can just see Jones internal struggle:
hmmmm
Be true to the book....
or more Liv Tyler
Be true to the book....
or more Live Tyler
....
I had to be a tough choice.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
I own the rights to the movie (this is hypothetical, in case you were too stupid to understand that) and I really like it. I think it's a great movie, and it will hopefully make me a lot of money. However, it cost 500,000,000 US dollars to make all three movies (just a guess...) so I have a long, long, long way to go before it's profitable.
Burger King offers me 50M USD if I allow them to make paper sunglasses with LOTR junk all over them, sure why not?
KFC offers 75M USD if they can plaster LOTR posters all over their restaurants, sure why not?
Etc. etc. etc.
I get a huge chunk of my investment back and little kids get to have Burger King sunglasses...
I fail to see how that damages the film in any way, did someone at BK spill ketchup on the reel?
Or does it just personally offend you that someone has made a huge investment with a LOT of money and is trying to easily recoup some of that...
If all the silly commercials bother you... well shit, don't wath them! A novel concept, eh?
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
I was fortunate enough to see the movie in late November. (no spoilers follow)
:-))
They did not do the impossible. The length and breadth of Fellowship of the Ring could not be compressed into a 3 hour movie. Nor could they manage to please of all us Tolkein fans, each of whom brings a mental picture of what Elves/Frodo/Gandalf/Dwarves/ Aragorn/etc. *really* looked/acted like.
I will guarantee that each of you will walk away disappointed in *some* aspect of the movie. I also expect it to be a *different* piece of the movie for each person.
What they managed was the remarkable. The movie works, and works well. They have successfully translated a book almost totally unsuited for a movie into a rivetting, astonishingly beautiful piece of cinema.
In other words, keep expectations in check, and you should enjoy yourself immensely. Go, waiting to see what part they adulterated/messed up, and you risk letting your inevitable disappointment in one section overshadow the considerable success of the movie as a whole.
As an aside, I suspect that there's a lot of (non-existent) advertising revenue in a site that allows each user to vote on the five things that they feel the film did wrong. I figure there'd be at least five hundred possible complaints. On the other hand, my comparison with other people's list have found an almost complete lack of unity about what the points are! (How could nobody else realize that they've totally destroyed the Shire scenes by making Bilbo's eyes the wrong color
13, June, 1999
"Where there's a whip, there's a way...
"Where there's a whip, there's a way!
"The cast says they don't want to go to war today!
"But, you know that I'll say, 'nay, Nay, NAY!'
"They're gonna march! All day, all day!
"They're just slaves of New Line's war.!"
Why bother.
Of course, that's exactly why I loved the movie...
I don't think he has a clue about what he was talking about. He talks about LOTR as if it copied these movies...such as Harry Potter "And anyone who wants a replay of the troll attack from Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone will find one here". Too bad Harry potter is a book borrowing from all kinds of myths and mythologies. Then there is the small problem of the book being written some 50 years ago. I hate critics who are ignorant of the sources of a movie.
At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
It goes like this. A bunch of peaceful little guys are minding their own business in their village at the beginning of the first book. The mysteriously disappearing/reappearing wizard Gandalf shows up and says bad things are coming. Several of the little guys decide to head off from the village. Here's where the story gets underway.
Disclaimer - YES, I'm kidding, dammit! But you've got to admit, there IS a grain of truth to it...
Anyone who DOESN'T know the story (both of you), it actually IS a good, complex tale. I just couldn't help noticing this pattern in it...
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
And yes, my hobbit-like wife is well aware of my elf fetish. I'm a dwrf, she's a hobbit, and our kids are dwobbits.
You can't tell we're into this sort of thing, can you?
All about me
Funny, I just happened to re-read Tolkien's view on a movie version of LOTR last night. In a 1957 letter to his agent in response to an offer from an American studio, he basically said two things (a) he had no philosophical objection to movies and wouldn't mind if someone tried to create a screenplay/movie version (b) however, since he didn't trust Hollywood, his specific instructions were "either Art or Cash", meaning either full artistic control, or enough cash up front to drown his sorrows.
So I would say ol' JRR had pretty clear vision in these matters.
sPh
It's from the director of Bad Taste. How could it not be good!
Still not dead.
You're right about the publisher. I always confuse Ballantine and Bantam. Sorry, it was Ballantine who did it. And yes, it did take a while for the popularity to grow to such a level that they asked him for more (it was a request, not an order - he didn't have to do anything). As to the source, I'm not sure if its on the net. I read it in a biography on him offline in the back of his unpublished works.
I'm not trying to be dark or pessimistic - rather, the opposite. We all have to work. Its part of life - I don't think it takes away from art or literature; I'd say its a part of it. I was defending the beauty of selling hamburgers with the help of Tolkien's story. I didn't consider that some would think that I was criticizing Tolkien.
I'm not sure that making commercials is not an art - or that making commemorative merchandise isn't. I think they both probably are, despite the fact that they make money.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
What is LOTR about?
It's a fairly straightforward plot about defeating evil. That said, that's NOT the important element of this story that makes it so popular, IMHO. The scale is immense, however, both in time and space, and that IS a big element, I think. I think you ought to go read the books (preferably before seeing the movie) and find out for yourself what the story is about.
Why is LOTR popular?
1. Detail, detail, detail. That scale I mentioned above is present here to. The depth of detail in these books is amazing. You get an entire world, it's history, and nearly all the important people of that world make an appearance at one point or another. You get the impression after reading it that you haven't missed anything from that world.
2. The plot is essentially, small, defenseless person saves world - becomes big hero! So, it's got the necessary element to appeal to pre-teens who have no voice in our world.
3. Wise old man appreciates young would-be hero. Again, something most pre-teens yearn for that they don't have.
4. Nothing is out of place - in other words, the world exists and is consistent with itself, and is wholly separate from reality. No one swears - everyone talks funny like they're supposed to. No one ever steps out of character. The warriors never take their armor off, etc. You are never, ever, rudely reminded of the real world, and there is never any attempt to make a real world "point". Pure fantasy.
So, points 2-4 pull you in, and point 1 makes you a fan for life. The detail and thoroughness really is quite extraordinary.
First, make it work, then make it right, then make it fast, then, make it bloated!
Didn't J.R.R. Tolkien himself say that it all began when he was grading exam papers at Oxford, and someone turned in a blank paper. Tolkien supposedly scrawled on it, "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit," and the story kind of spun out from there.
I loved the Father Christmas letters he wrote for his children. If they hadn't been published years later, no one else would have been able to enjoy his vision of the North Pole and the evolution of the characters who came to inhabit it.
(speakingof college, at the risk of sounding like an English lit. major, I would be remiss not to point out that it's "overwhelm.")
If the idiots that were selling the bootlegged copies had time to make 5,000 of them how long does anyone think it took for folks that AREN'T interested in profit mongering to see the movie?
Everyone that I know in the U.S. who is interested has already seen it. I was even offered a DVD of the movie on 3 separate occasions last week. I'm much more interested in Stephen R. Donaldson's "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant," and I've never read Tolkien so I politely declined the offers.
The point is that it makes no sense to "release" the movie in UK while we wait in the USA. Wouldn't it make more sense to just "release" it in all theaters everywhere on the planet? Why go around wasting money busting pirates, when you could possibly MAKE money by releasing it in different ways? Beat the pirates at their own game.
People are more than willing to be relieved of their cash. They are much less welling to submit to the perceived control of someone who says, "You guys over there can't have this yet." People, especially Americans, HATE feeling like their being controlled... told what they can and cannot do.
Knowledge is like ignorance.. too much can be just as bad as not enough.
Except for that stupid "Fighting over the Cups" commercial. Blech. The first cup commercial was OK, but the new one is annoying.
__
Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
I read The Fellowship Of The Rings for the first time this summer in anticipation of the movie. I have to say that it was one of the most boring books I have ever read.
Don't get me wrong! The story was great - there were many memorable moments - but it was told in a very tedious manner.
For example, you could probably edit out everything 95% of the text between the death of Gandalf and the arrival at the elvin village without losing any coherence.
All of this probably means that the movie will be better than the book, so I haven't lost all hope!
Any thoughts?
I dunno... What do you wanna do?
Greetings again,
Thanks for taking the time to answer this post. I don't believe I will have a chance to read the books before the movie opens but your answers will definitely help when it comes to following what's happening.
I will try to read the books over the Christmas holiday (I've got two weeks off).
I can see the development of archetypes in the descriptions you provided. I'm currently re-reading Joseph Campbell's Hero of a Thousand Faces and the same patterns and themes emerge in LOTR, Star Wars, Harry Potter, 2001, etc.
Best wishes,
E
http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
Poshumuously, and through an intermediary, but he got it.
Jackson $270 million to make the movie, and free reign over the whole project. That's both the money and the artistic control, and I'm sure Tolkien's estate will benefit from it.
It just shows the strength of these books that they merited this kind of deal. Very few things in the entertainment industry do.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Gakh Nazgi Golug durub-uuri lata-nuut,
Udu takob-ishiz gund-ob Gazat-shakh-uuri,
Krith Shara-uuri matuurz matat duumpuga,
Ash tug Shakhbuurz-uur Uliima-tab-ishi za,
Uzg-Mordor-ishi amal fauthut burguuli.
Ash nazg durbatuluuk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatuluuk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
Uzg-Mordor-ishi amal fauthut burguuli.
and here it goes in other langs
Here's the Polish version:
Trzy Pierscienie dla krolow Elfow pod blekitnym niebem,
Siedem dla wladcow krasnali w ich podziemnych palacach,
Dziewiec dla smiertelnikow, ludzi smierci podleglych.
Jeden dla Wladcy Ciemnosci na jego czarnym tronie
W krainie Mordor, gdzie zalegly cienie.
Jeden by wszystkim rzadzic, jeden by wszystkie odnalezc,
Jeden by wszystkie zgromadzic i w ciemnosci zwiazac
W krainie Mordor, gdzie zalegly cienie.
And (for those who didn't read the original), English:
Three Rings for the Elvenkings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf Lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for mortal Men, doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,
In the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them.
One Ring to bring them all and in darkness bind them
In the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie.
So it looks in French:
Trois pour les Rois d'Elfes sous le ciel d'azure,
Sept pour les Seigneurs Na?ns dans leurs demeures de pierre,
Neuf pour les Hommes mortels destin?s au trepas,
Un pour le Seigneur des Ten?bres sur son sombre trone,
Dans le pays de Mordor ou s'?tendent les ombres.
Un Anneau pour les gouverner tous, un Anneau pour les trouver,
Un Anneau pour les amener tous et dans les ten?bres les lier
Au pays de Mordor ou s'?tendent les Ombres.
In German:
Drei Ringe den Elbenkoenigen hoch im Licht,
Sieben den Zwergenherrschern in ihren Hallen aus Stein,
Den Sterblichen, ewig dem Tode verfallen, neun,
Einer dem Dunklen Herrn auf dunklem Thron
Im Lande Mordor, wo die Schatten drohn.
Ein Ring, sie zu knechten, sie alle zu finden,
Ins Dunkel zu treiben und ewig zu binden
Im Lande Mordor, wo die Schatten drohn.
In Danish (there may be errors):
Tre har elvernes konge i dybeste skove,
Syv har dvaergenes herrer i sale af sten,
Ni har mennesket doedeligt, doemt til at sove,
In har den natsorte fyrste for ondskab og min
I Mordors land, hvor skygger ruge.
In Ring er over dem alle, In Ring kan finde de andre
In Ring kan bringe dem alle, i moerket loenke dem alle
I Mordors land, hvor skygger ruge.
And in Spanish:
Tres anillos para los Reyes Elfos bajo el cielo.
Siete para los Senores Enanos en palacios de piedra.
Nueve para los Hombres Mortales condenados a morir.
Uno para el Senor Oscuro, sobre el trono oscuro
en la Tierra de Mordor donde se extienden las Sombras.
Un Anillo para gobernarlos a todos. Un Anillo para encontrarlos,
un Anillo para atraerlos a todos y atarlos en las tinieblas
en la Tierra de Mordor donde se extienden las Sombras.
In Swedish:
Tre ringar foer aelvkonungarnas makt hoegt i det bl?,
sju foer dvaergarnas furstar i salarna av sten,
nio foer de doedliga, som koettets vaeg skall g?,
en foer Moerkrets herre i ondskans dunkla sken
i Mordorlandets hisnande gruva.
En ring att saemja dem,
en ring att fraemja dem,
en ring att djupt i moerkrets
vida riken taemja dem -
i Mordors land, daer skuggorna ruva.
And in Dutch:
Drie Ringen voor de Elfen-koningen op aard'
Zeven voor de Dwergvorsten in hun zalen schoon,
Negen voor de mensen, die de dood niet spaart,
Een voor de Zwarte Heerser op zijn zwarte troon
In Mordor, waar de schimmen zijn,
Een Ring om allen te regeren, Een Ring om hen te vinden,
Een Ring die hen brengen zal en in duisternis binden,
In Mordor, waar de schimmen zijn.
Croatian version:
Prstena Tri za vilin-kralje za koje zvijezde siju,
I Sedam za patuljke-vladare kamenih dvora mochi;
I Devet za ljude, usuda kletog shto zarana mriju,
Al Prsten Jedan za Cara Mraka na prijestolju nochi
U zemlji Mordor gdje sjene se kriju.
Prsten Jedan da zavlada svima, Prsten Jedan shto trazhi i sezhe
Prsten Jedan da spoji se s njima i u tami ih svezhe
U zemlji Mordor gdje sjene se kriju.
Russian version:
Tri elfijskim wladykam w podzwiezdnyj priedel
Sem' dlja gnomow karjaszych w podgornom prostorie
Diewjat' smertnym cziej wyweren srik i udel
I odno wlastelinu na cziernom prestolie
W Mordorie gdie wiekowiecznaja t'ma:
Sztoby wsje ich sozwat', woedino sobrat'
I jedinoj czernoj wolej skovat'
W Mordorie gdie wiekowiecznaja t'ma:
In the language of Klingons of Star Trek:
elDa'joHmeHvaD chalbingDaq wej Qeb
nawqo'joHmeHvaD naghjuHmeychajDaq Soch
HumanmeyvaD jubbe' HeghmeH qichbogh Hut
joHvaD Hurgh quSDajDaq Hurgh wa'
Qotbogh Qibmey morDor puHDaq
Hoch che'meH wa' Qeb, tu'meH wa' Qeb
Hoch qemmeH lan HurghDaq baghmeH je wa' Qeb
Qotbogh Qibmey morDor puHDaq
In the Quenya language:
Cormar neld' Eldaranin undu telume,
Otso Casarceruin ondomardeltassen,
Nerte Firyain; firien martine,
Mine Loonaherun, lnamahalmaryasse,
Mordrev' ardasse yasse lumbor caitar.
Mine corma turien ilye te, mine corma tuvien te,
Mine corma tultien ilye te ar morniesse mandien te,
Mordrev' ardasse yasse lumbor caitar.
First Esperanto version:
Tri ringoj por la elfo-regoj, sub la chielo;
Sep por la dvarvo-moshtoj, en haloj de shton'.
Nau por hom' mortema, kondamnita de mortpelo;
Unu por Malluma Moshto, sur Malluma Tron',
En la lando Mordor, tenebra pro malhelo.
Unu Ring' por regi chiujn, unu por venigi,
Unu por sklavigi kaj mallume enchenigi,
En la lando Mordor, tenebra pro malhelo.
Another Esperanto version:
Tri ringoj por la elfoj sub la hela chiel',
Sep por la gnomoj en salonoj el shton'.
Nau por la homoj sub la morto-sigel',
Unu por la Nigra Rego sur la nigra tron'
Kie kushas Ombroj en Mordora Land'.
Unu Ringo ilin regas, Unu ilin prenas,
Unu Ringo en mallumon ilin gvidas kaj katenas
Kie kushas Ombroj en Mordora Land'.
In Japanese:
Mittsu-no yubiwa-wa, sora-no shitanaru erufu-no -ni,
nanatsu-no yubiwa-wa, iwa-no yakata-no dow fu-no
kimi-ni,kokonotsu-wa, shisubeki kidame-no hito-no ko-ni,
hitotsu-wa, kuraki mikura-no mei-no tame-ni,
kage yokotawaru morudru-no kuni-ni.
Hitotsu-no yubiwa-wa, subete-wo sube,
hitotsu-no yubiwa-wa, subete-wo mitsuke,
hitotsu-no yubiwa-wa,
subete-wo toraete,
kurayami-no naka-ni tsunagitomeru.
Kage yokotawaru morudru-no kuni-ni.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
This is so common, it's almost absurd to even bring it up. As Wilde said, "When artists get together they talk about money, when bankers get together they talk about art."
Shakespeare wrote tons of plays in order to keep the audiences rolling in. It's nothing shocking that they bear a lot of similarities to each other, it made them quicker to write! Some people resorted to writing much quicker plays, but there's a reason he was so successful.
Dickens was paid by the word. There's the reason why his books are so long and drawn out, he got rewarded to make them long.
Bradbury wrote Farenheit 451 (in the basement of the building I'm in now no less!) and the whole of Martian Chronicles just to help pay the rent. Asimov wrote the Foundation and robot stories to pay for his tuition.
Every single artist from the Renaissance had a patron who paid for the art.
Does any of this get in the way of the fact that the art is great in and of itself. Long after the money has evaporated, the work is still there for us. That's part of what makes it great.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
drool.
Yeah, it's true that GW figures are undoubtably some of the most expensive on the market. They are also some of the best-sculpted if you like their somewhat cartoony, over-the-top aesthetic (the LOTR figures are more subdued in style though). Always a joy to paint. And I've seen the quality of the figures included in the LOTR game, they are the best looking plastic figs I've ever seen. Fine detail, far superior to the plastic that came with Bloodbowl or Battlemasters.
For those wargamers who want to play LOTR battles, there are a slew of other companies producing elves, orcs and hobbits to say nothing of medieval humans! Screw GW, when you want to expand your LOTR army, check out one of the myriad other manufacturers out there! I've heard that at "official" GW tournaments, you have to use GW figures in your armies, but if you're just playing with your buds, who cares?! Though to be honest, unless you have good hobby stores nearby, assembling the Fellowship on your own from mail-order could easily go over $40!
Freedom: "I won't!"
All Art Is Quite Useless
The artist is the creator of beautiful things.
To reveal art and conceal the artist is art's aim.
The critic is he who can translate into another manneror a new material his impression of beautiful things.
The highest, as the lowest, form of criticism is a mode of autobiography.
Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault. Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful thing are the cultivated. For these there is hope.
They are the elect to whom beautiful things means only Beauty.
There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written. That is all.
The nineteenth century dislike of Realism is the rage of Caliban seeing his own face in a glass. The nineteenth century dislike of Romanticism is the rage of Caliban not seeing his own face in a glass.
The moral life of man forms part of the subject-matter of the artist, but the morality of art consists in the perfect use of an imperfect medium. No artist desires to prove anything. Even things that are true can be proved.
No artist has ethical sympathies. An ethical sympathy in an artist is an unpardonable mannerism of style. No artist is ever morbid. The artist can express everything.
Thought and language are to the artist instruments of an art.
Vice and virtue are to the artist materials for an art.
From the point of view of form, the type of all the arts is the art of the musician. From the point of view of feeling, the actor's craft is the type.
All art is at once surface and symbol.
Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril.
Those who read the symbol do so at their peril.
It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors.
Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex, and vital.
When critics disagree the artist is in accord with himself.
We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely.
All art is quite useless.
- Oscar Wilde
Preface to "The Picture of Dorian Gray"
One thing about TLoR that bothered me was the almost complete lack of religion and spirituality in the books. How can a world were not only is magic real but quasi-deities such as Gandalf (an Istari) can wander the world for 2000 yrs and then come back from the dead after fighting the Balrog yet no one talks of divine power? Even the immortal elves remember ancient acts of the gods yet no one seems to give them any more consideration than they make an interesting story.
Every human society has created some sort of spiritual framework for the world. Tolkien seems to have completely regected this.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Thomas Sutcliffe's review mentions "...Hitler would have adored this film, with its hideous Untermenschen, its homeland-loving hobbits and its Aryan beauties." That isn't a very positive endorsement.
So should I see this film or not?
On one hand Sutcliffe doesn't like it. On the other hand, Hitler gives it two thumbs up!
"Leave the strategizing to those of us with planet-sized brains." -Tycho
can anyone point me to a chapter in The Hobbit, or LoTR where elves are described?...
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Sure, go see the movie - I'm going to. But I think everyone should try and spread DIVX or whatever other copies can be made, as far as possible - to show that spreading copies does nothing either to hurt the movie OR the DVD sales!
The argument is this - if you're interested in the movie, you're going to see the movie in a theater, and you'll buy the DVD for the extras and perfect transfer even if you already have some sort of reduced quality copy.
The only works that really get hurt at all by piracy are unimaginative works lacking in plot and without interesting extras on the DVD's. Yet even then I think the losses from piracy are nothing copared to losses suffered through simply being a terrible movie.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
To keep this /.ish, I'd argue that Tolkien invented Elves in the same way that Xerox invented {things that people now attribute to say Apple or Microsoft or Al Gore}: a few different versions of the thing were kicking around, shrunken and vaguely malicious perhaps; and then suddenly there is this fully detailed, fleshed-out, working implementation of Elves; and now today there are a million of them with the serial numbers filed off, and a few massive corporations profiting from them (not the originator, of course); and no one can imagine Elves being any other way, with the exception of Keebler and rebellious authors like Brust and Cherryh.
"The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life"
There is an amazingly small amount of hype/pre-publicity out here in Taiwan about the movie ... this could be related to the fact that noone here has ever heard of (or read) the original books. I had a quick look, and couldn't even find a Chinese translation (I guess it ain't the easiest book to translate) - so everyone here will judge it purely as a film, not an adaptation of a book(religion?).
Incidentally, it's also coming out much later (mid-Jan) - which may be because the holiday season is around the Chinese new year (in Feb) rather than Christmas.
Now, Harry Potter is completely different - everyone reads the books, adverts for the films are still all over the place & the film was released on the same day as U.S./U.K.!
What about other non-English speaking countries?
Strange, a newspaper article I read cited that Tolkien only received $15,000 for the movie rights. Now his family is pissed and getting all grumpy about the movie that's not making them rich.
OK, so dragons, dwarves, hobbits, elves, goli, etc. are all acceptable, though we never find their archeological remains, but the occurance of a tomato is anacronistic? Even if you insist that these stories occured on Earth, why do you dismiss the possiblity of a wizard teleporting to the New World for a little produce-gathering expedition? Maybe the tomatoes disappeared subsequently from Europe with the Hobbit bones.
My God, it's Full of Source!
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