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Palm/3Com Graffiti A Patent Infringement on Xerox
Olmy's Jart writes "According to this article on money.cnn.com, a judge has ruled that graffiti, the one stroke shorthand used on Palm Pilots, infringes a Xerox patent for "unistrokes". Really light on details and no links to betters sites, unfortunately." MSNBC also has the story.
Bic has just sued Paper Mate over "the pen."
How does this affect handspring? Is Xerox's claim towards the implementation in the OS or the general input method?
-Windchill2001 The One, The Only, The Cold...
for Palm or it's licensees, Handspring, Sony, and HandEra (and perhaps others). Xerox wants damages for infringement, plus they intend to force Palm to cease selling PDA's or to license the patent. If Palm can't afford it... all PalmOS based devices may be in trouble.
Anyone know if BeOS had any non-infringing handwriting recognition? This might force Palm to move ahead with a switch to ARM and a new OS.
Man, Palm is really having a hard time these days. Could this, coupled with their recent downturn help microsoft innovate them out of business a la netscape?
Sure, Palm was the original, and the only one (along with OS licencees) that offers PDAs that aren't overloaded with pricey color screens, 64mb of memory, and desktop applications. (Well they offer those too, but they still have some good straightforward PDAs). But, with the market crowding, and lots of new Wince apps being written, are we seeing the beginning of the end?
I'd hate to have to buy an overloaded PDA because MS becomes the only game in town...
Buy Hex-Rated Stuff, fight the DMCA!
Relevent patent is 5596656
It looks pretty broad and clear
Mmmmmmm
Intellectual Property is being slowly strangled by overrestrective trademarks, copyrights, patents, corrupt companies, and bought politicians.
When are we going to wake up and realize that these artificial constructs originally created to help innovation is actually starting to stifle it? Perhaps people will start to wake up after the recession really starts to hurt. There is going to be a lot of pointing fingers soon.
I wonder when Xerox filed that patent, as Palm (or whatever they were called originally - before 3Com bought them) was selling the software to use graffiti as input on the Apple Newton back in 1994 or so? I think we still have one of the original packages at work.
-"Zow"
The lawsuit will now move on the the penalty phase. The court will decide if Palm has to pay damages and if it is allowed to continue to use the technology. Xerox will urge the court to either require Palm to stop using Graffiti entirely or pay royalties.
Xerox sued U.S. Robotics, which was later bought by 3Com, back in 1997, claiming that Graffiti infringed a patent Xerox received in 1997. Palm was later spun off from 3Com.
Xerox originally filed for its patent in October of 1993. The first handhelds running the Palm OS, the Pilot 1000 and Pilot 5000, were released in April of 1996 by U.S. Robotics. These included Graffiti. A question not yet answered is why Jeff Hawkins didn't file for a patent on Graffiti earlier when he had been developing the idea since the 80s.
In June of last year, a judge dismissed the suit on the grounds that Graffiti wasn't similar enough to Unistrokes. In October, the suit was reinstated and moved to the U.S. District Court for the Western District of New York.
Judge Michael Telesca declared today that Xerox's patent is "valid and enforceable", and that Graffiti does infringe on it.
It is not yet known whether Xerox plans to sue other makers of handheld operating systems, like Microsoft, who also include some form of handwriting recognition.
"Xerox always aggressively defends its patent portfolio -- a valuable corporate asset. Today's ruling vindicates our position that our handwriting-recognition patent was infringed. Either Palm will have to cease production of its hand-held organizer or license the technology from Xerox," said Christina Clayton, Xerox general counsel.
Thanks to montyburns for the tip. -Ed"
Blatanly ripped from Palminfocenter.com
Unistrokes picture - Unistroke.gif
---- "It is never too late to give up our prejudices." --Henry David Thoreau(1817-1862)
Can be found at http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/23481.html
Oh, quick question. Does it usually happen that you submit a story, it gets rejected, and then someone else publishes it?
Another one of those cases of making money by suing the successful
[sigh]
Why can't someone do this to Microsoft?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I suppose with the economy in its current state, struggling companies are forced to sue on possible infringement cases to earn some kind of revenue. And to believe I just got a Visor Deluxe two weeks ago, now its going to be a paperweight.
When I was in Law School, we were presented with an age-old issue similar to this. Way back when, a printing company accused another of stealing their "shorthand" language that they used in technical manuals. (Basically it was a simple method of printing manuals for machines. If you were a worker who repaired these machines, you would be familiar with the shorthand).
;)
Anyways, the company that originated the shorthand sued another because they began printing manuals with a similar technology. The judge decided (I believe he was right) that it did constitute an infringement and the defendant company was required to pay royalities.
Sure is neat to see how things can change, but the same lawsuits pop up again
- Dave Brennins
http://www.davebrenninslaw.org
dave@davebrenninslaw.org
Xerox announces an industry wide lawsuit...
For infringement on... well, on everything...:-P
Really guys.. the xerox palo alto labs invented/pioneered
pretty much most computer technologies, and many other technologies we have just started to see...
So if they are starting to sue now.. all companies should start calling their lawyers right about now.. hehe
Xerox.. where bad and short sighted management is a way of operation..
Wow, so Xerox might actually make some money off their Palo Alto Research Center. Its too bad that they sold if off or closed it. Have they made any money off of anything else invented there? I know laser printers but that's the only money making idea that I've heard of.
What a fucking joke. I think I'll patent typing drunk while I'm at it.
For anyone interested, here is a paper (in Postscript format, on the parc FTP server) from 1993 by David Goldberg and Cate Richardson of PARC discussing unistrokes. It looks like the foundation for the strokes is there. I wonder how Palm's version measures up to their tests.
Here are the details on Xerox's patent on Unistrokes for computerized interpretation of handwriting which was granted in 1997.
There are a couple of monochrome wince pads out there.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
So Xerox has finally decided to play a little bit of hard ball. Took them long enough, they should have filed after they had their GUI stolen
... is to make Grafitti Open-Source.
In Palm's patent on "Method and apparatus for handwriting input on a pen based palmtop computing device" check out a couple of the references that are cited:
Article: "touch-Typing with a Stylus", by David Goldberg and Cate Richardson, (9) pages total/
Xerox patents relating to handwriting recognition, (5) pages total.
Goldberg is the inventor listed on Xerox's patent. I'm sure someone at Palm (perhaps Hawkins and Haitani) saw this one coming a mile away.
I learned Morse code in 1978 from a fine old geezer in Sweden, who amongst other things taught me to write all characters as a single stroke: backwards 3 for "E", a sort of a triangle for "A", and so on - just like graffiti. It was all just to make copying Morse code easier, but it seemed such an easy way to write that I took to it in everyday life.
Now, I'm not saying that the Xerox or Palm dudes ripped off this idea from Ham Radio geeks. All I mean is that if you're pressed into having to print the standard Latin letters quickly, you are naturally going to end up with something that looks awfully much like the Ham/Morse chicken scratch, or Graffiti, or whatever you want to call it.
Palm patented graffiti themselves, so its not like anyone else could use it before this. Now other people will actually have a chance to use the technology.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I wonder if I can still get a patent on signatures, both legible and scribbled...
KingPrad
Stop the Slashdot Effect! Don't read the articles!
It seems to me the patent relates to any interface that changes stylus strokes into text. So wouldn't all PDAs be open to lawsuits since any PDA that does not use a keyboard uses a method of interpreting stylus strokes into text.
I wonder why the actual language was not taken into account since unistrokes seem to have only a couple of characters that match Graffiti strokes.
It seems that this patent, based on the ruling, would cover any interface that uses a motion (it did mention the fingers of the writer) that is recognized and translated to text. Even if another type of program was used what is to stop them from claiming the same case of infringement?
Microsoft paid Xerox for unistroke and the current version of the Pocket PC operating system has Grafitti. So there may be a time where the only legal version of grafitti in on a Pocket PC, and I say good. Microsoft did the proper thing, not that the knuckleheads here care.
Considering Palm's recent acquistion of BeOS, are there any Graphitti comperable handwriting programs developed by the BeOS guys or were they too busy begging for device drivers from Intel and HP
We had to destroy the sig to save the sig.
Of course, this is the last thing Palm needed as they are already hemmoraging in the market compared to the WinCE/PocketPC offerings...
But not as ridiculous as the great frowny emoticon debate. I guess I'll also have to stop writing capital I's and lowercase l's. :-(
Oops.
Meanwhile, Bill Gates of Microsoft had this to say on the subject. "Ehhx-cellent..."
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Just when Xerox has some cash on hand, it has to deal with racial profiling of its employees.
Infringes on. "Infringe" is not a transitive verb.
What does Xerox *DO*??
...this is the last thing Palm needs.
I won't feel warm inside when Palm lays off their employees.
And this is probably creating big cheers in Redmond.
*sigh*
Specifying gestures by example, Dean Rubine, ACM SIGGRAPH Computer Graphics , Proceedings of the 18th international conference on Computer graphics July 1991, Volume 25 Issue 4
It is a part of the Andrew Toolkit, historical source is at here.
It is a part of OpenAmulet now.
Perhaps a mouse is NOT a stylus.
dumbass, microsoft paid xerox for theirs.
How MSNBC has a big story on how one of MS's cheif comeptitors lost a lawsuit whiel everyoen else is running the story that XP lets pirates take over your entoire computer?
Not.
MSNBC == MS PR + NBC's journalistic integrity bought and paid for.
The patent law says that you must grant sub licenses at reasonable rates. Xerox has no benifit in stopping selling of the PalmOS, they on the other hand would be intereted in skimming a few bucks on the OS licensing fees. Xerox being in pretty bad shape could really use the cashm they don't really deserve the money as the single stroke isn't important the accuracy of the handwriting is what makes the system worth while, and thus where the value lies. Scumbag laywers, being scumbags see a chance to do a little skimming of there own, thus the case. My understanding is the Palm gets $8 for each device sold which seems like a lot, most embedded OS's only get $1-2 per use. So Palm may have to pay Xerox a few bucks and then pass that onto thier customers, $2 won't seem too much devices in the $150-$400 range. Handspring may get a pass with the new keyboard driven Treo, they have a Graffiti version but none of the ads or reviews have shown that version, kinda ironic after Mr Hawkins started Graffiti, which is now the problem.
HOW THE FUCK DID THE PATENT OFFICE ACCEPT THAT? I don't think there is a possible way in hell that the patent office even takes a peek as this stuff. Unix has had this FOREVER. In fact, windows has this in a way (shortcuts) circa 94/95.
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Why don't they just go out there and patent the "right to own patents, and sue on the basis of their misuse by third-parties".
Imagine! Every company that would want to sue another party for patent infringement, would first have to pay royalties to Xerox!
I think its brilliant, and a money tree for Xerox's misguided management.
I sig, therefore I was.
Both of Handspring's Treo phone/palm gizmos look like they have chiclet keyboards instead of the standard graffiti area as an option.
Palm seems to have been clueless - could Handspring have known that Xerox was gonna win? Seems like more than coincidence to me...
"Xerox always aggressively defends its patent portfolio"
it's not like steve jobs got anything from xerox without paying royalties
wait, maybe that thing that would never catch on, a gui, wasn't patented
I would have never guessed. Let see, is there anything these guys did not invent? The gui... Xerox... graffiti.... Xerox hmmm
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
Xerox sued palm and won. Xerox did not sue MS. Why is this legal? At this point MS is most likely infringing on a Xerox Patent but Palm is the only organization being punished for it.
Man out justice system is fucked up. If I ran the world Xerox would have to sue everybody who infringed or nobody. It's unfair to let some people off the hook.
War is necrophilia.
And "I could have thought of that" does not mean it's obvious. It seems one thousand Slashdot stories about patents are having no effect at all.
I hate ot say this, but look at it form Xerox's perspective. They've invented so many cool technologies (Two obvious ones are the mouse and GUI), and they never made much money one them. Now they have something that's worth money, and considering what's happened to them in the past I don't think you can blame them for trying to make some money.
Not exactly. There are similar preexisting reduced stroke patterns for alphabets: http://www.rnib.org.uk/braille/moonc.htm
shows one used in printing for people who lose their sight later on in life. Note the continuous single stroke alphabet pattern which is quite like Graffiti.
Whoops..my bad, I didn't scroll to the bottom of the page--it's 1845! I'd say that beats Xeros PARC by quite a bit. =)
At least they are direct. : )
Yes, but they aren't shorthands. Typically there is a distinction made between shorthands and other forms of speedwriting.
What do you know I wrote a novel
Hey, we need two strokes to write an 'x' in Palm, so its input method is not really 'unistroke'...
j/k
...I'm not going to say that unistrokes weren't innovative either.
Well, I will. The problem is that people confuse the word "new" with the word "innovation". I don't think something should get a patent just because it solves a problem which didn't exist before. PDAs weren't possible for a lot of hardware reasons until recently. The input method, while clever, is something that any intelligent person could develop if asked to solve the problem. Put ten engineers in isolation chambers and give them two weeks to try to find efficient ways to input data into a handheld computer and 7 of them will come up with something similar to xerox's patent. Ask ten engineers to triple battery life and they wont do it in years. If one of them does, they'll deserve the patent they get. That's innovation. This isn't.
When in doubt, have a man come through a door with a gun in his hand.
Check out www.parc.xerox.com
One alternative is Ken Perlin's QuikWriting, which has been discussed on slashdot and covered by Wired.
"Quikwriting is significantly faster and less stressful to use than Graffiti, and lets you write very quickly without ever picking your stylus up off the surface, although it has the disadvantage that you need to learn a special alphabet. For further info, you can preview a Technote in either PDF or PostScript, which was published at the ACM UIST'98 conference."
Another alternative that builds on Perlin's QuikWriting work, is Francois Guimbretiere's and Terry Winograd's FlowMenus, published at UIST'00.
"We present a new kind of marking menu that was developed for use with a pen device on display surfaces such as large, high resolution, wall-mounted displays. It integrates capabilities of previously separate mechanisms such as marking menus and Quikwriting, and facilitates the entry of multiple commands. While using this menu, the pen never has to leave the active surface so that consecutive menu selections, data entry (text and parameters) and direct manipulation tasks can be integrated fluidly."
I'm currently designing and programming a user interface on the Palm for a remote control application. So I've implemented "Finger Pies", which are simply pie menus that you can use with your finger!
To paraphrase Ben Shneiderman: Finger Pies work well for implementing direct manipulation user interfaces on handheld personal touch screen devices, in which the application provides meaningful, engaging, tightly coupled feedback on the screen, in response to your gesture. By integrating immediate gratification over time, the user enjoys the satisfaction of direct engagement in an immersive experience, and achieves the cognitive resonance of continuous gratification. [My apologies to Ben for the tongue in cheek impression.]
Finger Pies are not meant to replace character input systems like Graffiti, but they are extremely useful and reliable for many applications of handheld input devices, because they're easy enough to use with your finger instead of a pen.
Finger pies are good for reliably selecting between two, four or eight options at a time (which can be nested as pop up submenus), and they're much more robust and resistant to noise than gesture recognition.
One problem with gesture recognition in general, is that it doesn't allow for "reselection" or in-flight refinement and error correction. That is, once you've made a mistake in a gesture, there's no way to change or cancel it, so you will often get characters that you don't mean, and you have to stop what you're doing and erase the mistake.
Pie menus allow you to cancel or change the selection at any time before you commit to the selection, so you can easily browse the menus. So pie menus are most appropriate when there aren't too many items, the items don't change dynamically over time, and when you need to minimize the error rate and selection time.
Most gesture recognition systems are not "self revealing" like pie menus, which can pop up a "map" showing the directions. So pie menus are much easier to learn than gesture recognition, and more appropriate for novice users. Best of all, they naturally train users to "mouse ahead" and select without looking, so they have a smooth, gentle learning curve.
Another advantage of pie menus is that they're not patented or restricted, and there are several freely available open source implementations.
-Don
Penny Lane: "This song was written about the roundabout in liverpool where John and Paul grew up. Half of the song is fact, half is fiction, but most of it is nostalgia. John was starting to write about personal places, and Paul really took this one and ran. "I wrote that the barber had photographs of every head he'd had the pleasure of knowing. Actually, he just had photos of different hair styles. But all the people do stop and say hello." say Paul. Also, "finger pie" is actually an old obscenity in Liverpool. The girls would never thnk of saying the word. It was used in the song as a fun joke for the lads back home. Months after, waitresses in Liverpool had to put up with lads asking for "fish and finger pie." There is also a phallic reference to the "fireman who keeps his fire engine clean." Penny Lane has become a Beatles landmark, and like Blue Jay Way, has it's problems with stolen signs, which are now nicely bolted down. Penny Lane was recorded on December 29, 1966 and released as a single with Strawberry Fields.The song also has a promotional video." -http://members.aol.com/Sumacca/songs.html
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
reading that it implies the Xerox came up with their own version of shorthand.... or the concept of using a pseudo-shorthand-like-thing. if palm ripped the actual patterns for letters from xerox, then um errr oops? how close are they?
if it's the concept of using symbols to input into a device then Apple's Newton might be an example of an earlier device. knowing Apple legal, i would think they secure EVERYTHING they come up with (or buy). though technically the Newton "learned" the user's handwriting, as opposed to the user learning simplified strokes for letters. in that sense Xerox could have secured a "better" way to input data into the device. even so if it is not very specific stuff stolen, that is quite a vague concept to enforce. right?
Unless this is a licensee of the same patent that was very much later granted to Xerox, then this is clearly prior art
I am not sure when I bought it. I had it long before I moved in 1987, perhaps as early as 85.
Unistrokes, a technology that allows users to put information into a computer by printing in a special shorthand, was developed in the early 1990s at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center (PARC), a well-known institution in the technology industry. Xerox obtained the patent for Unistrokes in January of 1997, but currently has no plans to commercialize the technology, according to a company spokesman. ITworld.com 10/9/01
Man and Goat
They've been granted a copyright on shorthand, so long as it's on a screen?
WTF?
Justin.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
> Sure, Palm was the original, and the only one ...
Nope. The TRUE original and only one was the Newton (I had a 120 and a 130 back then). Ok, they were quite bulky, especially compared with a Palm, and somewhat slow (at least the 1xx ones, never got to use a 2xxx), but they were great machines and they were the first and original PDAs. I considered Palms as cheap and ugly rip-offs of the Newton back then. Finally I was forced to switch by Apple abandoning the Newton and am now owning two Palms. It would be a shame to have to move on again because of Palm going down, but honestly Palm and PalmOS hasn't improved much over the last 12-18 months. They are hopelessly behind and if they don't get their act together soon, they will vanish. This would be a sad day.
Coyote Hill, Palo Alto: Today Xerox was awarded a patent on their Proprietary Xerox User Interface Copier Technology. As a result, Xerox immediately filed patent infringement lawsuits against Apple for copying Xerox's user interface, Microsoft for copying Apple's user interface, and Sun for copying Microsoft's user interface.
Industry insiders predict that this new round of lawsuits could have an even more chilling effect on the economy than Xerox's previous lawsuits over their Proprietary Xerox Business Model Copier Technology. Bootleg copies of Xerox's unreleased Business Model Copier System were widely pirated and secretly used by many "dot com" start-ups, which fueled the inflation of the Internet Bubble. But when Xerox tried to enforce their Business Model Copier patent, it caused the failure to so many "dot com" companies, that the bubble popped.
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
Yet more reason for everyone to use Quikwriting.
It's faster once you learn it. I'm not sure whether it also is laden with patents, though.
From: Don Hopkins <hopkins@uk.ac.turing>
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 92 22:33:08 BST
To: Mark Weiser <weiser.PARC@com.xerox>
Cc: hopkins@uk.ac.turing
Subject: cmu
Thanks! I sent email to Myers and phoned him up, and after a while he remembered that I was the guy who sent him the pie menu video tapes [...] I'm quite interested in his work, which involves programming by example and demonstration, visual languages, and constructing GUIs with graphical editors using inferencing and constraints, instead of doing so much boiler plate programming.
I am quite interested in pen based stuff, but I don't want to work for any of the companies currently making pen based products because they are so short sighted and limited by perceived market demands and low end technology. (IBM-PC based technology, MS-DOS, bad languages, etc.) Go is using C with crude object oriented scaffolding, but their ideas are sound, and they're at least using their own OS, however the programming environment sucks, they just can't get away from MS-DOS. Momemta is using smalltalk, which, as one of their engineers told me, allowed them to catch up with Go in a very short time. But they definitly have a set of problems of their own, like running on top of MS-DOS and Windows. It's nice that they use smalltalk, but it's rather slow, and more glitzy than well designed. There was a big battle at Momemta between the programmer who's responsible for how nice it is, and the engineering manager in charge or the project, where the manager refused to use smalltalk because it was a "homosexual programming language". Guess he never heard of Lisp! But the programmer certainly proved his point, and the manager took all the credit for making the decision to go with smalltalk. (That's what the manager claimed at their product announcement, and I shook his hand for using smalltalk, and when I told the programmer about that later, boy was he pissed!) But you still can't program the damn thing in smalltalk, *using the pen*! I guess that's one reason they also have a keyboard. There were some other stupid user interface decisions made as well -- my impression from talking to the programmer was that the manager read some books on user interface design principles, and enforced them to the letter without really understanding them and knowing when they should not apply, and when to just use common sense instead.
So far nobody I've heard of has a programming language you can use with a pen, let alone a pen based user interface *written* in and around such a language. What good is a pen computer with a scripting language if you have to use a keyboard to program it? And if it's not programmable, you might as well be using recipe cards. The pen has so much potential, but everybody's trying to use these computers to simulate a piece of paper running MS-DOS. I think it's all well and fine to take advantage of metaphores people are used to (i.e. writing on paper, or beating their head against MS-DOS) but if you limit yourself to simulating paper then you've severly crippled the system, especially when at the same time you severly break the metaphore you're limiting yourself with by trying to be MS-DOS compatible. No piece of paper ever locked up and asked me if I wanted to Abort, Retry, or Ignore. As an example of how you could make a pen computer easier to use by transcending the paper metaphore: when you write on a piece of paper, the information that it stores is two-dimensional. The time componant is completely collapsed and lost. This is not the case with a pen computer, which can remember ink as a three dimensional entity. Why should I be required to write in a fucking comb, if the computer can tell where one letter ends and the next letter begins by the *temporal* separation between letters instead of the visually obvious and traditional spatial separation? Why hasn't anybody written a handwriting recognizer that lets me keep my hand in one place and just write overlapping letters or words without moving my hand back and forth, looking at the page to see when I reach the right margin, moving my hand back to the left margin and no further and down exactly one line, and then writing another line making sure it's parallel with the first? Why can't I just relax, and keep my hand in one place while writing? (I discovered this handwriting technique when I would fall asleep in class while still taking notes. I would wake up and there would be a big ink blob where I kept writing but stopped moving my hand back and forth.) Of course my hand is used to spacing letters out when writing a word, but I think it would be pretty natural to have an input field in a convenient location that I write a word into, which is recognized, then zaps over to where the text input caret is in my document, in a nice font, and the caret moves on, but the place I'm writing stays in the same place. Just like how a keyboard works. Imagine of you had to move the keyboard to the right a bit every time you typed a character, and then move it down and all the way to to the left whenever the cursor reached the right edge of the screen? Nobody would put up with that. Why put up with such a horrible interface using a pen computer? It's only *paper* that forces you to do that.
Well I doubt it would be possible to develop such a non-conformist interface for a company that was rushing to market as fast as they could. Let alone develop a pen based programming language and then write a user interface around it. Did you read the article in Dr. Dobbs Journal (the December UI issue, the same one with my pie menu article) about the pen extension to X-Windows? What an total abortion! I'm sure the next big market demand made on a company like Go or Momenta will be to implement X-Windows for their machine. During the time that every company with a pen computer is trying to do that very same thing and failing miserably, but thinking it's OK because everybody else is failing just as bad, and the users asked for it anyway, so that's what they get, I would like to be doing something completely different, not wasting my time with the latest fads, stampeeds, and lemming dunks.
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
-Don
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1991 22:48:01 PST
From: Mark_Weiser.PARC@xerox.com
Subject: Re: a rumor?
To: Don Hopkins <hopkins@Eng.sun.com>
Xerox has stopped testing summer student interns in the research labs only. The rest of Xerox still labors under its yoke. Its a win, for sure, but there's still more to win. Thanks for your help.
The information visualizer guys are into gestures, but not pies. They use a rubout motion to delete, and stuff like that. I think the gesturing left and right to close and open trees was more like that.
We ahve been playing with ways to use a stylus to get input without a keyboard and without handwritng recognition. I hacked up a sort of 26 quadrant pie menu, so that each word is a shape (letter-letter-letter, all connected together, and drop ink as you move among the letters: you get a shape. Xerox is a kind of lopsided "X"), and each letter is selected as you move through it, and when you lift up and click down the stylus again you get a space. It has some potential, but 26 quadrants is just to many.
Another possiblity is to put 13 inside 13, and use a state machine so you get the inner circle letter unless you travel all the way through to the outside circle, in which case you get that letter instead, etc. I haven't hack this together yet, maybe tonight.
-mark
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 06:43:09 PST
From: hopkins@Eng.sun.com (Don Hopkins)
To: Mark_Weiser.PARC@xerox.com
Cc: hopkins
Subject: alphabetic pies
Have you tried two level 6x6 item pie menu tree for inputting the alphabet (and then some)?
abc ghi mno
def jkl pqr
-X-
stu yz_ ___
vwx ___ ___
You could hang more submenus off of the _'s for numerics, less common glyphs, etc. The SouthEast menu that's all _ could have any number of items, and the South menu might have some special glyphs or submenus in it. The important thing is that the glyphs are chunked in groups of 6, which fits comfortably in your head.
You might also try a two level 6x8 item pies menu tree:
abc ijk qrs
.
d e l m t u
fgh nop vwx
-X-
yz_012etc
_ _ 9 3 .
___ 8 4 etc
567
I was thinking about how to do a decimal pie menu tree. The obvious thing is a 10 item pie. But what direction should 0 be, and should the numbers go CW or CCW? But a 10 item menu is only really good for inputting a single digit, or a fixed number of digits, not an arbitrary string of digits (you need a way to terminate the string, and using another mouse button is cheating). Well, most people are familiar with a phone dial, so maybe that's one way to line it up. If you lined the 10 digits up in the same direction as the numbers on the phone dial, you would have a few extra directions to put extra menu items, where there are not holes in the dial. (Hey, how many is that? All the phones in my life have buttons! I guess I'm not as familiar with the phone dial as I thought, but maybe my fingers would remember. Let's say 13.) You could use the extra 3 directions for a decimal point, and/or input editing commands, or commands that consume the number you gestured as input. Or you could just keep selecting digits deeper and deeper, and the system could be smart about only popping up menus that would only allow you to select a number in range (e.g. 0-9999). Much better to disable menu items by dimming them than removing them from the menu, because that would change the numbers items in the menu, and ruin everything.
In a phone dial context, when you needed to input letters, it might be nice to arrange an alphabetic pie like the letters on a phone dial, with submenus of 3 menus items. But it probably wouldn't be as easy to use or remember as the 6x6 alphabetic menu.
-Don
Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
For anyone interested, here is a paper [xerox.com] (in Postscript format, on the parc FTP server) from 1993 by David Goldberg and Cate Richardson of PARC discussing unistrokes.
If Xerox published that paper more than one year before the company applied for the patent, then the paper counts as prior art to invalidate the patent.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Palm's input method is actually somewhat different from Xerox's: it is considerably slower, it has some multi-stroke characters, and it requires you to look at the device. The specific Unistroke design in Xerox's input method is actually considerably nicer. Palm knew about the patent and thought that even if it was valid, it wouldn't apply to their input method. The other irony is that writing a simple, trainable multistroke character recognizer isn't hard at all, so Palm could have avoided this issue altogether.
Personally, I think a broad patent shouldn't have been granted, although a narrow patent on the particular Unistrokes alphabet might have been sensible. And I just don't see why Palm's method, which lacks just about all the nice features that Unistrokes have, would infringe. But people who get paid much more than you and me have been working long and hard on this, and that's the outcome.
Take a look at this patent. It seems like Palm has been trying to patent any kind of handheld that uses a separate, dedicated input area for handwriting or tapping on a preprinted keyboard. Here is another one that claims methods involving separate input areas for different character types.
If you'd stop the knee-jerk "patents are BAD" reaction and think about the facts before spouting off, you'd realize that this case has been going on since long before the previous ecconomic boom! This isn't about the Tech Slump. Yea, sure -- Xerox is tight for cash, and would love to generate a few $$ off every sale of Palm, Handspring or other devices, but they aren't trying to stiffle competition or put Palm out of business.
Xerox gave us plenty of innovations (e.g., the mouse). This is just one invention they are trying to get credit for.
Your Servant, B. Baggins
and everyone that has tried a Blackberry knows it.
You can enter words at 3 times the rate using thumb typing over that useless graffitti. No loss here for Palm - just an excuse to upgrade to a keyboard.
Precisely how would your current Visor suddenly become a "paperweight" as a result of this ruling?
They may have to increase prices on new Visors to cover royalties or stop selling them altogether (which would be very sad), but neither of those events will make your pda useless...
It's not like it will suddenly become illegal to use your Visor, or that Xerox will get the right to zap the world with Graffiti-destroying rays that will render your Visor useless... Cheez.
It was clear in this case that xerox had more money then palm...
Actually, for the past couple years Xerox has been having a lot of financial problems. The stock price has dropped something like 80% since two years ago. They have sold or shut down major portions of their business. While money is certainly a motivator for this law suit, it's certainly no the case that one side had a financial advantage over the other.
Would the newton qualify as prior art. I know it was launched in 93, two years before the patent was filed. I also know it had an abreviated entry system similar to what became graffiti. What I don't know is when the entry system was added to the os, was it in the origional shipping product or added to a later os release?
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
"Innovate" them out of business. How quaint. I've got an idea, let's bundle a PDA with every copy of Windows sold, call it an integrated part of the OS. That's innovation.
It would suck if I had to turn in my Palm because it contains a copyright infringement. I have way too much important data on there. I would surely hope that Xerox doesn't issue a recall.
On the other hand (pun?), that could make my Palm a hot collector's item, much like my Vostok wristwatch that was made in the Soviet Union.
So ya wanna email me, eh? Change
Someone should sue Xerox for patenting prior art known as "short-hand."
The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
Considering Xerox made a lot of money on machines designed to copy things...
I thought Xerox liked copying...
The patent office seems to enjoy granting patents that claim both the implementation (which should be patentable) and the idea (which should not be). This
prevents independent implementations of the idea from becoming widespread during the lifetime of the patent
actually impedes innovation in the field, because with the idea itself patented, no one can improve the implementation without paying royalties. The classic example of this is the Watts patent on the steam engine, which granted him rights to not only his design of steam engine, but to all devices that used steam to produce mechanical power. For various reasons, Watts opposed high-pressure steam, and so the steam engine sat in stagnation for most of his lifetime because he refused to license any steam engines that used high pressures to exceed his own designs.
Of course, when the patent office also grants pattents on obvious pure ideas themselves (it is easier to transact an online transaction if it involves fewer clicks), what can you expect?
ATOMIK (Alphabetically Tuned and Optimized Mobile Interface Keyboard) is an IBM invention, that replaces the Palm-ish keyboard with a sticker showing a non-QWERTY keyboard, and updates the input handling driver.
It can be found here.
Neat stuff, really... it has a rough sorting of the alphabet from A->Z going from upper left to lower right, and puts the more-frequently used characters in a more central location.
You can get a pdf of the keyboardand the driver from them here.
Microsoft PocketPC 2002 has an input method called "Block Recognizer" which is for all intents and purposes exactly the same as Graffiti! So all those kinda PDAs are gonna be affected!
IIRC, Xerox originally came up with the concepts of the personal computer, the graphical user interface, the mouse, and several other substantial breakthroughs in computer science. And, of course, they are also equally notorious for not doing anything with such innovations, while other companies take the ideas and run with them. It'd be interesting to see what Xerox would be like if they'd actually jumped on half of the ideas their engineers came up with.
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
So, I was xeroxing a bunch of resumes the other day to send out to company, when my [non-Xerox] copier got jammed. It seems that every time I try to xerox a bunch of stuff at once this problem happens. Does anyone else have problems when they're xeroxing items????
Oh, that's nice, they never get anything.
passetspike!
... if this means the graffiti applet on my Newton is illegal too ?
Recognizing arbitrary handwriting is difficult. So to make the task easier, Graffiti uses a less ambiguous alphabet.
How is that patentable? Computer science's *usual* approach to difficult problems is to make them less general, and this seems like a completely obvious way to do it. Ok, maybe I can understand a patent on a particularly innovative *method* for recognizing Graffiti characters (for instance, some new way of feeding the data into a neural network). But this appears to be a patent on any recognition system that uses a unistroke alphabet even remotely like Xerox's.
Out of morbid curiosity, I developed my own Graffiti-like input system a while back. It used a completely different mathematical trick than any other recognizer I know of (email me if you're interested, I'd be happy to share), and it could be trained to recognize almost any unistroke alphabet. I wonder if it would be covered by this patent, even though it's not limited strictly to the Graffiti alphabet and it uses a completely different algorithm.
As an interesting data point, I showed my system to an AI guy at Georgia Tech, and he was not impressed at my system's capabilities. He said I was sidestepping the problem by requiring unistroke characters.
That said, I am not surprised that Xerox got a patent on this, nor that it was held to be enforceable. I just think it is absurd.
-John
They specifically talk about how computer recognition plays a part.
Several characters of Katakana are, um, unistroke. Let's sue Japan.
And Mesopotamia...
"We have important things to say about this, but not now."
Yet another alternative to graffiti or qwerty-style keyboards.
a il .html
http://www.twsolutions.com/fitaly/fitaly.htm
http://www.asktog.com/readerMail/2000-07ReaderM
I had one also. I was living in Japan working for SORD computer and found the Casio watch that had addresses and a calculator the let you draw the numbers an letters on the face.
.. it was great
I dont know what ever hapened to it
This was 1984
Prior art anyone?
* Carthago Delenda Est *
If you selfishly use patents laws to prevent other people from earning a living, don't complain when others use the same patent laws to put a monkey wrench in your works. In the meantime, the legal buzzards are laughing all the way to the bank.
I hate you more than ever, Milkman Xerox.
IIRC, Xerox originally came up with the concepts of the personal computer, the graphical user interface, the mouse, and several other substantial breakthroughs in computer science.
According to this page, the personal computer was invented in 1949. Xerox was a chemical company called Haloid at the time, and was just getting into the photocopy business.
This very good primer describes how various pieces of the GUI were invented throughout the 50s and 60s by people such as Ivan Sutherland and Alan Kay.
The mouse was invented by Douglas Englebart in the mid-1960s.
Xerox did invent at PARC in the 1970s and beyond: several other substantial breakthroughs in computer science, such as Ethernet and Object-oriented programming.
Apple stole their original interface design from Xerox and then tried to sue Microsoft for doing the same thing. Funny how all this works out, huh?
The Newton does not use Graffiti for HWR. While it was available for the older models (OMP, 110, 120a), the updated system in models 120b, 130, 2000, 2100, eMates was far superior and graffiti was pretty useless there. For what it's worth, the Newton system was based on Neural Net technologies in part developed by Larry Yaeger called "Rosetta" Ref: http://www.beanblossom.in.us/larryy/ANHR.IEEEExper t.html (will should in new window if the TARGET wasn't filtered out.)
An interesting easter egg in the Newtons:
write: "rosetta! rosetta! rosetta!" and the newton will respond "Hey, that's me!"
-Jeremiah S. Junken
Here's the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle story. I didn't bother reading the others, but this one has a few details in it. 'course we would have it in the paper, since Xerox is a huge employer in Rochester.
--You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
Based on NCSA Mosaic. NCSA Mosaic(TM); was developed at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.
Distributed under a licensing agreement with Spyglass, Inc.
Contains security software licensed from RSA Data Security Inc.
Portions of this software are based in part on the work of the Independent JPEG Group.
Contains SOCKS client software licensed from Hummingbird Communications Ltd.
Contains ASN.1 software licensed from Open Systems Solutions, Inc.
Multimedia software components, including Indeo(R); video, Indeo(R) audio, and Web Design Effects are provided by Intel Corp.
Unix version contains software licensed from Mainsoft Corporation. Copyright (c) 1998-1999 Mainsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Mainsoft is a trademark of Mainsoft Corporation.
Open mouth, insert foot =)
[o]_O
No! You fucking twit. Its not funny how the media system screws rival companies and consumers while their parent corporations act like greedy twisted children from hell. MSNBC, AOLTW, Fox, Disney, Xerox. Its all the same anti-competitive monopolistic bullshit as it has been for the last 30 years. When will these companies grow up and get focussed on their real job? Make us some quality modular well-designed products and make them cheap! FUCK!
I have never met a professional geek that didn't have a love for the technology they develope.
11. The method of claim 10 wherein said unistroke symbols are well separated from each other in sloppiness space,
Where the heck is sloppiness space? Any why does it keep spilling over into my son's room?
...remember the suit where Amazon.com "patented" one-click checkout, or whatever it was and started suing competitors?
Xerox certainly waited a conspicuously long time to sue.
Why WinCe isn't mentioned in the suit...
I read the actual text of the patent, and I'm left feeling the only obvious implementation of stylus-based handwriting recognition would be to implement it exactly as outlined in the patent (digital sampling based on X-Y coordinates). At face value, it seems a definite infringement- assuming the patent itself is legitimate.
This truly makes me wonder if pen and paper were invented today, could someone patent the pen as a graphic input device? Or are patents best left to actually improving the design of the pen (the ball-point). This would lead me to believe that if some great algorythm vastly improved the recognition abilities of the device, IT could be patented, but not the concept itself.
One could also almost argue that individual "cursive" letter function as a unistroke style of writing (if you forget about dotting your "i"s and crossing your "t"s... and with a computer, it should be intuitive it "knows" it needs to dot or cross them).
Would Palm be able to skirt the issue by allowing each user to teach the input interface each letter he or she wants to use?
Those that suggest you "dance like no one is watching" really want to see you make a complete fool of yourself.
Years ago in the early '90s I worked at a company called GRiD Systems where Jeff Hawkins got started with handwriting recognition. I believe he originally developed the technology as a graduate student and then licensed or sold it to GRiD, who made hand-held computers using his algorithms.
Handwriting recognition is extremely difficult for computers (hell, I often can't read my own handwriting). While his algorithm was good, it was not perfect. Trying to recognize the difference, for example between an "a" or a "d", or an "r" or an "n" is very difficult. The only reason humans can read most handwriting is that we can understand the context of what is written.
Jeff realized that there was no way to easily reduce the error rate (which was very high for some letters). Instead of trying to develop a better algorithm (which I believe would be next to impossible given the computing resources at the time) he figured it would be better to change how people write letters to make it easier for the recognition engine.
Jeff tried to sell the idea of Graffiti to GRiD, but they decided they were not interested (by this time GRiD was part of Tandy corporation, hence its later downfall).
So rather than give up, Jeff left and founded Palm computing.
The beauty of his algorithm was that it worked fine, even on an 8088, whereas the competing algorithms from companies like Microsoft needed far more powerful processors.
Also, while at GRiD we worked with a Casio device called a "Zoomer" that had many similarities to the Palm. It had a PCMCIA slot, used a V20 CPU and ran DOS. On top of DOS it ran Geoworks with Jeff's handwriting recognition algorithm. While it was a really cool device (it had digital audio, IR, a serial port, and lasted 40 hours on a set of batteries) it was a bit too thick to fit into a shirt pocket. Also, the user interface was more mouse oriented than pen oriented (although Geoworks was quite cool).
Now all of this happened in the early 90's. I imagine that this was well before Xerox filed for a patent. I also know that Jeff was the originator of the algorithm and Graffiti and not Xerox.
-Aaron
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
Some Windows CE devices use an input method called Jot which is very similar to Graffiti. I'm suprised that Palm never sued over that. Maybe Xerox will go after Jot next? There are many other input methods that are actually better than Jot or Graffiti so I don't think this would be a problem.
I worked for a CAD company called Applicon that had Tablet Symbol Regognition in the 1970 time frame. It was the first system of it's kind that used tablet (pen) input to execute commands. Commands could be macros, represented by letters or words to execute system commands such as move, copy, add_vertex, etc.
This would pre-date the Xerox claim no?
/Steve Mc Cauley
It's been found that Xerox's Unistroke technology is infringing on the prior art of "L-dawg", a graffiti artist and gang leader from the projects of San Diego.
When inquired about possible lawsuits, L-dawg responded with, "Yo, fuck them lawyer bitches. L-dawg ownz the east side, the west side, yer bedroom, yer mom.. There must be somethin in the water, cuz all I see at Xerox are bitches!"
L-dawg was seen shortly afterwards gunning down the employees of a local Kinkos (Which featured Xerox equipment), while shouting, "Haha, NCSP are bitches, yo!
I remember seeing papers before 1997 that described a unistroke alphabet. The internet is full of them.
http://www.ubiq.com/parctab/csl9501/node4.html