Slashdot Mirror
Microchips For Human Implantation As ID
securitas writes: "Reuters is carrying this story about Applied Digital's VeriChip -- a subcutaneous microchip (like the ones they use to tag pets, livestock and wildlife) used as ID for humans. They are radio-activated and would initially be used to store and transmit medical data via the Internet. They will be also used as tracking beacons and personal ID according to a company exec. The launch will be in Europe and South America. The company has made an FDA application and the FCC has already licensed airwaves for a similar device." We've mentioned this company's "Digital Angel" before, but there's an understandable sudden interest in such tracking technologies.
Awesome, now when you accidentally ask girls for their IP instead of their phone number, you won't be that far in the hole this time.
I think this is an awesome idea, but I think governments would abuse it the first chance they got.
If it was a short range device that you would literally need to be within a few centimetres then it would be ok.
If it was a long range device (of satallite tracking ilk) then governments would be able to track criminals, and people who can't help themselves (eg. elderly people). But they could also put it on say a political foe.
It is good with certain limitations.
What we see depends on mainly what we look for. -- John Lubbock Now search for that bug slave!
I can vividly see a world in which it is mandatory for all people to have sensors in them. This day is not far off either. It will be introduced as a further measure for our "safety", but in reality it is just another advance of Big Brother as well as our loss of that scrap of privacy that we used to hold.
or, as in the case of Total Recall, wrapping wet towels around our heads may get pretty popular.
Prof. Kevin Warwick in the UK had an electronic tag implanted in his arm as an experiment not so long ago.
Unfortunately people seem overly willing to give up their rights and freedoms right now, however I'm sure if western governments tried to start implanting subcutaneous devices in peoples bodies to track their movements, everyone would wake up and realize whats going on and how ridiculous its getting.
in their present stage, these chips can carry about 6 lines of text, accoridng to the NYtimes artical, so right now I wound't be to worried about satlights tracking my everymove. But technology does progress, and while I don't see any danger at this present moment, I woudn't want one of theose things in my arm.
Sleep is for the weak!
I know I'm going to lose all my Karma because this is the "cool" "tech" thing to do, but out of respect for various religions and my personal beliefs I would die before I'd let them implant anything into me.
I don't know how many of you are aware of the beliefs in the Bible about the sign of the beast, whether or not you believe them it is important that you at least respect them.
What is wrong with having a card in my pocket with all this info? It can be forged? Well, couldn't a different chip be implanted? The possibilities of corruption and abuse to this system are endless.
On a technical standpoint, until they can encrypt it with your own DNA code it's not even worth considering.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I reckon the government read Slashdot, and they've come up with the idea of trolling the general population to help them spot the tin-foil beanie brigade. Short of announcing that the US military will now supply unmarked black helicopters to the UN for homeland security, can you imagine anything more likely to freak out the these-are-the-last-days, the antichrist is coming, blah blah wibble wibble types?
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
These will be hacked easier than other forms of ID. So much for prevention. It may actually help them. They should start using combinations of biometrics as IDs.
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a skull.
What would be the benefit?
... nothing more.
A central database of Retinal/Thumbprint scans can ID you just as easily. All the Info on your medical records could be stored in the central DB as opposed to in your microschips.
Unless...you could somehow control access to your own Microchips. I could see several levels of permissions:
Global: Person scans, and now knows that you are a citizen of the USA, EU, PRC
Business: Person Scans, and now can get your shipping and billing info.
Medical: Person scans, and now can get you vital medical history ALA 1st Alert.
All this we be predicated on you having a public/private key hand shake, similar to the SSL setup.
1) Remote machine requests permission
2) Microchip tells chip to grant permission (I have no idea how, I am just dreaming at this point)
3) Chip grants short-lived one time key for accessing info.
If someone tried to tag you with one of these against your will, I am sure there would be many ways to distrupt it: Wear a "Diskman" that actually produces white-noise frequencies to cover the radio from the chip...replace the implanted chip with a home made one that proves that you are someone else...implant a chip that compromises a buffer override in the scanning software so that if anyone tries to ID you their machine crashes.
In other words, business as usuall
Open Source Identity Management: FreeIPA.org
Gives the term "Intel Inside" a new meaning :)
Next we will have to have that logo tatooed onto our buttocks.
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
I don't see this being a feasable idea because of the cost. If they try to make every citizen pay a couple hundred dollars to get this, noone will pay it. If the government tries to fund it, it'll be even worse because they'll end up getting charged out the wazoo and they'll probably end up running out of funding.
Pat
Humans are slow, innaccurate, and brilliant; computers are fast, acurrate, and dumb; together they are unbeatable
``Of course, we will do this,'' said Saffo of the Silicon Valley-based Institute for the Future ``And it won't be just for the functionality. It will also be for fashion. You've got a generation that's already piercing themselves. Of course, they're going to put electronics under their skin.''
I certainly hope that Mr. Paul Saffo is dead wrong on this subject.
First off, body piercing is NOT a new trend. It has roots in almost every other culture, and dates back hundreds of years. Just because it is a recent movement in Western Culture does not mean that every person who likes piercings is going to like having a tracking device in their skin. Not to mention that the large majority of people in Western Culture do NOT like body piercing. There is not direct link between the two.
Second, isn't anyone worried about the health risks of something like this?! Electronics are a LOT different than an inert, non-reactive metal or ink in the skin. Pacemakers cause enough problems with people in certain situations (microwaves, magnets, etc.) I for one don't EVER want electronics under my skin. I guess if it ever progressed to where you had to get an implant, some Rare Earth Magnets would take care of that problem pretty quickly.
Lastly, is this something we as humans really want to do for fashion??? If its entirely under the skin, how exactly would it be a fashion accesory? What, would they make the chips come in different colors?? "You cant see it, but mine is leopard-spotted!!" Unless they make them into actual shapes that stick up from under the skin like real implants do, they won't be a fashion accessory.
I'm slowly beginning to think the Luddites were right; technology could easily be the end of us. The last thing we need as a species right now is the ability to track everyone. Here's to hoping things like this NEVER get widely adopted.
How about adding a couple of things to the human version of this technology:
- Notification. include an external circuit—perhaps electrodes at each end of the chip capsule—which would emit a mild electric shock to the wearer whenever the chip was 'read.'
- Controllability. Provide a handheld device with each ID chip which would transmit a locking/unlocking signal to the chip. When locked, the chip would be rendered incapable of transmitting identifying information (similar to the Pentium III CPUID switch).
- Information Scaling. Let the wearer use the same handheld device to control the type and amount of information retrievable from the chip. For example, on a shopping trip, the user may allow only demographic information to be read, on the condition that stores and malls which read the info will give some small discount on purchases in return for the information.
If I were guaranteed this level of control, and the control was personally verifiable, I'd have no problem having such a device implanted.This sort of technology has both its bad aspects and its good aspects. In brief, the bad relates to possible privacy violations: your movement may not be so free as it once was. That said, the good aspects really are significant. First of all, there is a good side to being able to track peoples locations. If you lose a child, you would be desperate for this sort of technology! Determining alibis would be easier, etc. Another good side is a long-term effect. If this sort of device becomes more sophisticated, then it may eventually evolve into a ubiquitous computing environment. You bring your computing environment with you everywhere you go. I imagine this as being kind of like an implanted PDA. The technology for tying implants into the nervous system is developing and so like in many SciFi novels and movies, it is not unlikely that this could develop into extended memory and computation abilities that are indistinguishable from a persons normal thought processes. In an ideal situation, these things are really really good development... But things aren't ideal right now. In fact, the reality is that at least for the foreseeable future, our rights and freedoms are going to decrease. And almost certainly, this sort of technology would be taken advantage of.
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
Other news sources have quoted the company's bigwigs as touting this technology as a means for employers to keep track of their employees. I can imagine a day down the road where job requirements will call for "willing to undergo biometric implantation" as a prerequisite for the job. Those of you who simply refuse to believe the government will never embrace this technology should wake themselves up: Things we take for granted, such as driving, intrastate freedom, and higher education are privileges accorded to us by the government. Already, we are required to surrender our fingerprints, our retina prints, our Social Security numbers, and other personally-identifying data to secure these privileges. The government won't force anybody to be digitally tatooed: They'll simply withhold these things, these privileges, from those of us who refuse to submit.
This is dangerous stuff, more dangerous than Ellison's half-baked ideas of a national ID. People who condone, support, or otherwise promote the branding of humans as cattle (whether digitally or otherwise) are very sick fucks.
How are you going to use ID cards to tell the terrorists from the non-terrorist? Will the terrorist ID cards have "TERRORIST" across the picture diagonally, like some states do with "MINOR" on driver's licenses?
Unless this chip is implanted deep in he body at birth they will be removed, shorted, hacked in a matter of days...The thing to watch is when they start offering to parents to ensure the safety of the kids.... Those in jail are gonna get it, no question.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Also, Futurist Paul Saffo had the idea that "As some people wring their hands about the invasion of privacy and civil liberty, a whole other generation is going to go, 'Cool! I've always wanted to embed technology in my body.' It's going to be fashion. One sure sign that teenagers will love it is if it terrifies their parents.' "
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I heard a few posts back the argument that, while now people are throwing away civil liberties like so many empty Doritos bags, the idea of implanting a chip in everyone's arm would force people to wake up to what they're doing.
Not to sound like a doomsayer, but at this rate, there is no doubt people would accept these in mass if they were offered today.
Governments are notorious for their propaganda skills. If they started running flashy commercials telling America that this is the only way to fight terrorism, the lines for these microchips would be miles long. Americans already have a convenient unique serial number, the Social Security number, that could easily be put onto everyone's microchip.
I always thought Americans valued their rights, but two incidents are giving me leanings otherwise. First was the entire election mess a year ago. It boils down to this: Gore was the president chosen by the American people. When they put Bush in office, there was so little protest it disgusted me. The people made a choice, and the government said it didn't care what the people wanted.
Second, and even more shocking, was the lack of outrage over Ashcroft's comment a few weeks ago, that speaking out against the government is aiding and abetting the enemy. It's not hard to imagine Ashcroft adding "and aiding and abetting the enemy is treason, a criminal offense" onto the end of that sentence.
Will no one stand up and defend the rights we are owed as Americans? Or will this entire country simply march into a 1984-like hell to be started by these invasive microchips?
~q of course
contre.org. fighting crime since 1985.
Let's say that I contact someone while I'm at work, wearing the icky blue polyester suit. How am I going to read this chip? With a regular driver's license, I can take it back to my car, shine a light on it, see if it's fake, run it for warrants and license status, find out if the holder is a sex offender, and copy everything onto a citation or a field interview card. And if my flashlight and my car's map light quit, I can still read them.
Oh, and did I mention I can look to see if it's been faked, maybe compare it to one of the standard references?
With these things, no. I'm a cop, not an electronics tech. I've got no way of knowing if the signal is legitimate or from a black-market home-programmed chip. It'll probably take special equipment to read these chips, and I've learned that expensive electronics have a way of failing about fifteen seconds before I need them. And six lines of data leaves no room for a signature.
So, I'm not entirely sure about the practical aspects of this, or whether there's actually anything to gain.
And how about we look at the legal aspects. I'll admit that I haven't gone through either the Federal or Colorado constitutions with a magnifying glass lately, but I don't recall seeing any authorization for government to brand people like so many livestock.
Of course, I could be wrong about the Constitition thing. However, at the academy they did say that the parts of the Constitution that were written in the margins in red crayon didn't count.
But then, a lot of the experimentation with implantable ID was overseas. And in much of western Europe and in Japan, cops are expected to know aspects of individuals' lives that I don't even tell my parents. Like who's sleeping with who. Or who lives where-there are ways in the US for that information to be pretty much completely unavailable to police, but not in Japan or most of western Europe (for some reason, France, Germany and Holland spring to mind, but I wouldn't swear to that.)
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads
I think its fair interpretation isn't a strict Nostradamous like prediction of future events as much as a metaphor for deeds and mind - hand or forehead. Pre-Christian numerology has consiered 6 to be quite an evil number and three sixes it very very very evil. So the verse is more about being under the control or being a willing servant of evil. YMMV.
whether or not you believe them it is important that you at least respect them.
Well if youre going to tell me what to do I'll do the same. Respect yourself by being informed of more than just the fundamentalist view of things.
There are real reasons to go against treating humans as well-watched cattle, but this isn't one of them.
Why is that? Are these nations more acceptable to control devices?
Example, the UK already has the worlds highest CCTV count and Europe's culture very orderely and controled.
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
That's so stupid, it's not even funny anymore.
During the 70's Europe suffered from many terrorist attacks from diverse groups such as the German RAF (Rote Armee Fraction), Carlos the Jackal and his group, right-wing extremists in Italy,... .
Now in almost every country in Europe, there already was a national id-card.
So according to your logic, this never could have happened.
But you should consider that these people had no problems travelling trough Europe because they had *grasp* false id-cards. On many occasions where one could apprehend these terrorists, they often found different fake ID-cards from different countries on them.
Nowadays you could say, we put them all in a large database and check that database everytime someone eg. checks in a plane, but how do you handle foreign ID-cards? I don't think that an international ID-card database will happen the first century.
If only I could come up with a good sig
I guess everyone who has one of these will be unable to get an MRI (since it will probably have to have metal in it). For those who don't know, MRI's and pacemakers aren't compatible since MRI's user super-huge magnets for scanning.
-Michael Roy Some people are like Slinkies. Not really useful, but you can't help smiling when you see one tumble down
He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,
so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. -- Revelation 13:16-17
We now have technology to make that happen!
Unless this microchip was completely nonmetallic, I would assume that it would set off any metal detectors in airports, government buildings, etc. Given the sensitivity of those things, you'd think that putting a mandatory amount of metal in a person's body would cause problems with scanning for legitimate weapons. If decreased the sensitivity of the machines so that they wouldn't be set off by these microchips, you could risk missing things being smuggled into the secure area. However, if you didn't increase sensitivity, then you'd have to hand search every person going into the secure area, which just wouldn't be practical. I don't see how this ID microchip would help ensure safety if it acts in this manner. Not to mention the fact that the human body would probably reject the microchip in the same way that it rejects transplant organs and any other foreign object. And then there's the fact that a good portion of people probably don't want one of these things in their body in the first place, but I suppose that part doesn't matter...it's for the good of the team after all...or something.
>I think we need a National ID card to fight terrorism, theres no other way to know whos a terrorist and who isnt.
So you think the terrorists will wait to receive an ID card, and ask to print "I am a terrorist" on it? National ID card is good to help FBI and the like to spy for locals (that is why it is "National"), but will fail short of helping fight terrorist.
MSDOS: 20+ years without remote hole in the default install
The launch will be in Europe and South America.
Oh, starting in Europe yet again? Quiet outlying areas of Poland, perhaps?
I will never take one of these things, as long as I live. Ever.
--hongpong.com
Yeah, let's just tattoo serial numbers on everyone's forearms!
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
It won't happen in the US as we have it today.
My understanding of prophecy is along these lines:
1. Spiritual forces start aligning the nations of the world to be more united in government and religion -- the UN and others are working on this now.
2. The Church (all true believers in Jesus) will be instantly raptured and will simply disappear from the earth.
3. Shortly after that, the Antichrist will sign a 7-year peace agreement with Israel. He will put the finishing touches on the world government.
4. Halfway through that 7-year period, he will be killed and rise again, indwelt by Satan himself.
5. THAT is when the Mark comes into play. People all over the world will be fascinated by his resurrection, and wooed by his false miracles. They will gladly accept this Mark.
Times will be *completely* different then.
Maybe this would be the catylist to start the long overdue second civil war this country has needed for about 60 years. Please adda forhead Barcode tattoo and even add public impalement of those that go against the current political party (ok so they are all the same really)
This country needs somthing to get the damned sheep we call citizens off our collective comfy chairs and do something.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The Intel Inside logo (well, back in the 486 days) looked an awful lot like a red 6.
Ergo, if we have Intel tracking chips inside of us, and Intel Inside tatoos on the outside... And only be able to make sales... Oh shit... We're through the looking glass here people. Now that we've stumbled across their little conspiracy, all our lives are in danger. Yours, mine, even the life of the complacent and idiotic Joe Sixpacks out there, who will willingly and enthusiastically get this little red (now blue, as if that would throw us off the track. ha!) 6 tatooed upon their buttocks.
This terrifying New World Order that Bush threatened back in '91 is beginning to rear its festering black head. I'm not sure if we, as a society will be able to handle the massive upheaval, this horrendous expulsion of civil liberties...
Oh no, in my agitated state, I seem to have knocked off my special wave-nullifying helmet. Now FEMA knows where I am, and their black helicopters will begin their inexorable swoop down onto my location. I've only moments before the elite paramilitary units rappell through my windows.
SLASHDOTTERS! MAKE SURE MY MESSAGE IS SPREAD THROUGHT THE LAND!
Now, If you'll excuse me, my Kalashnikov and I have a date with those who dare edit out Article Five of our Great Bill of Rights...
Why is it when I hit ^R that ZSH calls me a cocksucker?
Just what an ambulance chasing lawyer needs!
In Murphy We Turst
TV watches you.
KFG
There's one completely practical aspect of all of this which hasn't been mentioned yet. I volunteer with a dog rescue organization which tries to use the chipping technology to match lost pets with their owners. When it works, it's great.
But the chips, which are usually implanted in the back of the animals neck, can occasionally migrate inside the animal's body. Mostly they just slide down the back, but there have been cases where they just disappear. (I'm sure the chip is in there somewhere, I just don't want to find out...)
Either way though, if it's possible for the chips to move after implantation, I think the technology needs more work before we start putting them in people.
But, wouldn't the 4GB Hard Disk needed to store the DNA information leave a big lump under your skin? And tell me, when (and I do mean when) the chip fails, will you be left strandard, unable to withdraw your money from the bank. Or unable to buy a subway ticket to get home because your chip has failed.
We don't have the technology now, nor are we ever likely to have such technology. The day Micro$oft can write software that doesn't crash, will be the day that this sort of technology will be reliable enough to trust in this sort of roll.
Not going to happen in our lifetimes (the reliablity bit, not the implants, that's a certainty).
I wish I could think of a witty Sig. Sigh!
Don't ever use a Kevin Warwick story as a link unless it's this one showing how he's a complete fraud or maybe this one for a look into his thinking, or you could even use this one.
On second thoughts, just go to The Reg and search for Captain Cyborg.
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
..but I wouldn't submit to this, either.
Furthermore, if anyone ever insists that I do so, I hope I'll have the guts to kill the motherfucker.
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
right. like there arnt american terrorists. or did you forget the oklahoma city bombing?
no
Well, if we used tamperproof hardware that ejected a burst of cyanide when a security breach was attempted, I can bet you there'd be a shortage of volunteers ;-)
(And think of how this could be used for crime control - how 'bout a small packet of sedatives, which, upon receipt of an authorizing signal, dropped the suspect to the ground.)
Think about what you could do with public-key cryptography. Build chip-guns that get their authorization by combining the gun's public key, the government's private key, and the law enforcement officer's public key. Only the cop can shoot the gun, and (if the gun transmits the user's private key, downloadable with a warrant) only the target gets hit.
Imagine a gun that shoots to sedate, not kill, and where it's impossible for the cop, no matter how incompetent a shot he is, to hit an innocent bystander.
(Hell, scale it up. Issue the warrant and use transmitters mounted on every cell phone tower in the county to drop the perp. No cops required!)
I was thinking more of East Germany's Stasi and the former USSR.
The reason it didn't work is because it took too much effort (and too much resources) to keep track of everyone - when half the population is part of the secret police, and the other half is watching out for them, nobody has time to get anything done.
By reducing the effort required to perform surveillance, we actually have the possibility of getting the security of the surveillance state, but without the collapse in efficiency that usually goes along with it.
All in all, that just might work.
Two words: Russian mafia. I understand their counterfeit currency is good enough to fool all but the experts.
The bottom line is that if they can manufacture it, so can they.
Also, money talks. How much does the guy who runs the ID machine make? Multiply it by 2, throw in a Summer home and death threats to anyone who squeals. Don't believe me? When they finally caught some of these guys who sold us out to the Soviets, it was usually for less than $1 million over the course of 10 years. That's a lot to you and me, but it's nothing to a government who wants to screw us over.
The only way to really prevent terrorism is good old fashion leg work, diplomacy, and military force. There is a time and place for each of these tactics.
So, Larry Elison and The Beast, go peddle your snake oil someplace else.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
>
> The moment I start barking and piddeling on the floor, well, I'd assume I have "lost it" and perhaps it would be a good idea then...
Another handy use for it - Alzheimer's patients (a.k.a. "wanderers" when they make it out of the nursing home, who often freeze to death if they wander out during winter). Nuff said.
(OK, that's a case for voluntary implantation, not widespread implantation, but it's still another good use.)
Parents do what they believe is best for their children and for the family. It's hard to fault them for that, even when you think they're totally wrong and completely detached from reality.
A word can paint a thousand pictures
Okay, so your DNA matches the DNA recorded on the card. So what? If the card says you are Barbara Streisand and you are not, so long as the DNA matches yours, people have to assume you are Barbara Streisand. And don't give any guff about the private key used to sign the secure hash of the DNA and the name. If you spend enough money (like the kind of money a Barbara Streisand has) you can bribe, steal, copy, generate, whatever, a valid signature. Its all a question of cost/benefit.
The entire notion that knowing identity secures us is idiotic. So you know who someone is. Unless you can read his mind, predict his future actions, know the depth of his character through knowing his identity, I don't see that it does much. Freedom is too great a price for such imperfect security.
But those societies will be seen as harbouring terrorists and will be quickly shut down.
--jeff
ipv6 is my vpn
Actually, the trully sad and pathetic part is not that the elite would wish this, it is their nature and wise men should come to expect that by now, no rather it is the fact that in cases like this the 'fors' and 'againsts' will primarily be made up of willfully ignorant parrots that spew forth rhetoric without FULLY taking the time to comprehend the nature of the issue. I encourage everyone to fight this like you should fight any battle, with honor and courage. Don't stoop to the level of the bureaucrats and politicians by selectively choosing only those facts that will support your side, rather approach everything more like a third (unbiased) party with a more scientific method. Let the facts lead those that are logical and ethical on their own merit, do not deceive and conceive 'facts'.
Okay, that sounds preachy but I am really tired now, so forgive me please.
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
There is always be death. There will always be criminals. There will always be those who disagree with the powers that be. There were always be terrorists. There will always be discomfort. There will always be backaches. There will always be stiff, aching joints. There will always be home-made bombs. There will always be thugs. There will always be police brutality. There will always be corrupt governments. There will always be secret socities of Masons and the Illuminatis running the world under the guise of democracy. There will always be disobedience. There will always be hijackers. There will always be unpleasantness.
... it took England getting bitchslapped the world over and its empire stripped from it for it to become what is now a model free society. The royal family are relics of what once was ... and as soon as those inbred twits die off, the better.
Trying to control chaos is futile. For every measure of security, there will be a new kind of crack. For every length of dictatorship and oppression, there will be a spark of dissent. It comes and goes in waves. Right now, the US occupies the same slot that we rebelled against England for having over 200 years ago. Now look at England: socialized medicine, a happy, respectful populace
The same will happen to the US. National ID cards, even subcutaneous implants will not stop the rising tide of Hungry Freaks. It is pointless, expensive, and thoroughly unwarranted and authoritarian.
But, much like Christians scare people with the idea of Hell into becoming raving lunatics (merry f-ing xmas, you stupid cultists), the US has whipped up the populace into a fit of nationalism with the threat of TERRORISTS! (i'm shaking!). Now we'll take any sort of rights-revoking freedom-raping with a big, sloppy, give-it-to-me grin.
Sad.
wtf? The U.S. is falling even more behind in getting new technology. Japan and Europe being ahead of us, I can understand. They've been ahead of us in cell phones for years. But South America? When did they jump ahead of us technologically?
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Good thing I have some karma to burn.
"Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
-Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development
This won't happen over night. I see other posters vehemently claiming they would "rather die" than have a mandatory implant. I guarantee you, it wont be YOU who will be forced to have in implant - you have grown up knowing that a forced implant is undemocratic, satanic, etc. To your children, however, the idea will not seem so extreme. To your children's children it will be nothing at all...
I imagine this taking a couple generations.
1st step: As in now: optional implants for company workers. Today, some higher up execs traveling in 3rd world countries, where ransoming is prevalent, implant homing devices in their bodies.
2nd step: Forcible use of implants on violent criminals. This will be met with little resistance, as it is accepted that criminals forfeit some rights by committing crimes. I say "violent criminals" (i.e. rapists, murderers) as they would garner the least public sympathy. Soon after, lesser criminals would be tagged - eventually anyone who commits a criminal act. I imagine this process as taking a decade or so.
3rd step: Certain perks for those who accept an implant; faster border crossing, airport check in, etc. Those who refuse "optional" implants face longer delays (and other intentional hurdles). For you religious people, maybe a credit system whereby one just walks out of the store with merchandise -- only the luddites can be seen waiting in line. Over the space of years, people come to suspect those that refuse implants as having something to hide.
4th step: A new government policy -- all babies tagged at birth. My guess is that by this point (say 80 years from today), most people elect to have implants and the government need not force any legislation (that's why I say policy not law).
Never will an adult citizen be forced to have a foreign object implanted in their body. There will never be any protesting on the street or wild outrage. If this does happen, it will be slowly and insidiously.
Its always the gradual change that slips under the radar.
>I think we need a National ID card to fight terrorism, theres no other way to know whos a terrorist and who isnt.
Where did you acquire this insane fantasy that perps can be deterred by being forced to identify themselves?
Mohammed Atta WASN'T using an alias.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Let's see here, we've already accepted:
-- Our private medical information being entered into databases and sold to marketing companies.
-- Our credit records, containing all sorts of personal and private data, being sold to marketing companies and being used to barrage us with all manner of advertisements for crap we don't need or want.
-- The Brits have accepted their every movement being monitored by closed-circuit telescreens, er, cameras, in the name of "crime prevention."
-- A de facto National ID number (the Social Insecurity number).
-- DoubleClick teaming up with Polk to personally identify and track web usage of individuals.
-- The Clipper chip. Key escrow. Carnivore. Nuff said.
What's to stop us from accepting a microship implant? "Oh, you don't want this? What are you a terrorist? A pedophile? A criminal?" is the most common refrain. Or, "If you're an honest guy, you've got nothing to worry about." And you know what? It works every time, it'll work this time too. Face it, folks, it's coming and we've done it to ourselves. We have finally gotten the government we deserve.
Oh well, call me a cynic, but I'm only surprised that it has taken this long.
Then we'd all be smart-arses.
Paul
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
So this implant is intended for medical use, and subsequently identification? What does it offer that a bracelet with a MedAlert number or (to get high-tech) a smart card (on the bracelet) doesn't (in terms of medical detail)?
How does this assist in identification? The object of accurate identification is NOT to track ordinary people (except in aggregate), but to track specific people. Those who currently go to great lengths to avoid being identified, bypassing existing security and forging their credentials.
And, as usual, the Great Propaganda Machine assumes that because Joe Public can't remove an implant or modify it somehow, neither can a well funded terrorist.
Most disturbing, however, is the list of exceptions that will arise. Anyone who any government determines should be incognito will be able to get "fake" implants or avoid implants altogether. You don't want even a short range transmitter giving away the location of your crack troops, do you?
i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
The first person who tries to implant one of these in me is going to have a bullet implanted in them.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
Of course if we were to lose our basic rights guaranteed by the Consititution, then all that goes out the window. Then there would be a reason to fight the government.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
Reality need not get in the way of your ideology. ESR wrote this piece shortly after the plane crashes, and it is still relevant.
"Mark" my words: it ain't gonna happen in the USA.
Actually, to pick nits a bit - it was John (the Beloved) who wrote the book of Revelation, not Mark.
But you're entirely right about it not happening in the USA, at least not now. I'm sure the terrorism aspect wouldn't be the main problem, though - it would be the conservatives as a whole that would object. Even if they didn't manage to convince enough people it's a bad idea either though ethical or religious argument, there would be plenty of us who would opt for disobedience of any law requiring its use.
But back to the religious argument: there would be a mighty uproar, with at least 1/4 of the USA's citizens firmly believing that it's the mark of the beast - even if it doesn't go into your right hand or in your forehead.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
666 was a code for the initials of the emperor Dioclecian(sp?). If A=1, B=2, C=3.... then in the alphabet they were using 666 would equal his initials. In greek translations the number was 686 due to changes in the positions of the relevant letters. Needless to say this has nothing to do Satan, Lucifer, Mephisocles, etc....
The thing to realize about Revelation is that it was meant for the time in which it was written, not our time. Lamebrains and con men have been screaming "the sky is falling, the end times are nigh!!" and using revelation as the basis for almost 2000 years.
That being said I do think the idea of a tracking device that isn't something you can remove is a VERY bad idea. People have forgotten the concept of personal sovereignty and have fallen into the mindset that whatever rights or freedoms they posess are indulgences on the part of the government. If you believe that way then it becomes true. If however, you realize that no one has the right to hold power over you that you do not agree to, then the nature of things like this becomes very clear.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
LOL! And the scary thing is, he probably wouldn't remove them. And he'd never, ever put two-and-two together: the boy seems utterly ignorant of how his behaviour creates his problems.
:-)
It's not radio, alas. If I could rig up a directional EMP, though...
Blowing his speakers remotely, while not blowing out the speakers of anyone who's behaving responsibly. Neat concept.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I can see a lot of Jews objecting for a very different but quite real set of reasons. And I have always wondered about these national ID things. I mean what is to stop the terorists from getting a drivers licence? Or a passport (real or a good fake).
I also have to say I was "Profiled" at Atlanta Hartsfield airport a few weeks back. They patted me down ran the wand over me (twice) and searched my bag. They even wanted to know what was under my kippa (my hair and maybe a bobby pin). Now I do look "Middle Eastern" and I was not born in the USA but they had no way of knowing that, but hell I'm a US citizen and grew up outside of Boston and in New Jersey. And I look like the Jew that I am.
On the other hand for long distance travel the airlines are the only game in town.
Erlang Developer and podcaster
You miss my point. My point is that it is the association of the DNA with a name that is easily forged. If I could get the (false) association made between between my DNA and Barbara Streisand's name and I could get that association certified (and don't you think the clerk whose job this is could be bought for a couple of million dollars?), then you would have to call me Barbara, wouldn't you?
DNA is certain alright. But who says what name goes with my DNA? I'm saying that can be forged.
They used to keep fingerprints in card catalogs. If I pulled my fingerprint card, cut off the top and typed up a new header that said "Streisand, Barbara" then when you took my prints, you'd have to call me Barbara then too.
All I'm trying to say is that there is NO magic identity bullet; just because I can't change my fingerprints or my DNA does not mean that I can't get you to associate an incorrect identity with that unchangable attribute.