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BBC Testing Ogg Vorbis Streaming

jregel writes: "Credit must go to AirLance who posted a comment on Slashdot that the BBC are currently testing Ogg Vorbis streaming. As the comment says, users should email the BBC and show support. It would certainly suggest that someone at the BBC is quietly pushing open source. Is this the first major media outlet to use the format?" I hope someone from NPR is reading this, too :)

256 comments

  1. good to hear by GoatPigSheep · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ogg is a great format, I'm not sure how well it is for streaming but is sounds a hell of alot better at 128k than mp3 does. And best of all it's free, no fee's for running a server like you find with some other formats such as realaudio.

    --
    GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
    1. Re:good to hear by digitalunity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The 'no-fees' should be the best supportive point for proponents of free software. Obviously, from a technical standpoint, Ogg can stand tall on it's own merits. It should provide a much better stream for those who currently have to pay big money for their servers.

      Now, if only Windows Media Player came with an Ogg codec preinstalled, Ogg could take over the world!

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    2. Re:good to hear by msobkow · · Score: 2
      I've been extremely impressed with Ogg's audio for music. Unfortunately the Win32 codec combined with DiVX video does not get along with MS Media Player 7.1 at all. Perhaps not surprisingly, it plays back just fine if you use players that aren't based on Microsoft's widgets (such as The Playa.)

      At 192Kbps, I find Ogg is the best sounding codec. It's got good solid bass, tight transients, and even a bit of depth and soundstage.

      MP3 at 192Kbps (SoundForge Siren, not sure whose codec they use) tends to get a little "watery" on cymbals and brass, and muffles the bass a bit (particularly kicks, tympani, and Japanese drum work.)

      Microsoft's codecs (version 8?) sound pretty bad at 192Kbps. For all their bragging about how "advanced" their codecs are, they completely lose the bass texture and presence at that rate. Even at 256Kbps, their coded just doesn't compare to Ogg.

      (Don't bother asking what I've got on DiVX. I don't support piracy and will not provide copies.)

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    3. Re:good to hear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here it is!!!

    4. Re:good to hear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What have you got on Divx? Can I have free copies?

    5. Re:good to hear by qqtortqq · · Score: 1

      > Now, if only Windows Media Player came with an Ogg codec preinstalled, Ogg could take over the world!

      Now, if only everyone used Ogg, windows media player would be useless. Assuming M$ didn't implemet Ogg for a while, being scared of an open source protocol.

    6. Re:good to hear by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 2

      Ogg is a great format, I'm not sure how well it is for streaming but is sounds a hell of alot better at 128k than mp3 does.

      Excuse me for being ignorant, but what's the "streaming" market like for > 56K?

      I always thought that Real and WMA ruled this market (over MP3) because they at least sound like something for modem users. Either Real or Ogg would necessarily be broadband-only, no?

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    7. Re:good to hear by GoatPigSheep · · Score: 1

      The broadband market is big enough that ogg is a good option for streams. It would be nice if it had less than 128kbit bitrate support though, so modem users could benefit. Since a 128kbit ogg sounds comparable to a 196kbit mp3 in my option, a 56kbit ogg would probably sound comparable to microsofts, realaudio's, and the mp3pro low bitrate.

      --
      GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
    8. Re:good to hear by digitalunity · · Score: 1

      Actually, if Microsoft implemented Ogg, they'd probably just steal it. Extend and de-commodotize it, and not tell anyone.

      Then, with a final blow, they'd call it Bogg to create customer confusion and they'd trademark the name. Really, we all know Bogg would get it's name from being so big and slow, Bogging:) the whole system down.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    9. Re:good to hear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good link. Unfortunately, the fact that it must be manually installed is quite a deterrent for many people. The only reason I would want it to come with Media Player isn't some big admiration for Microsoft. I know MS will never release Media Player with native Ogg support because the wider spread the adoption goes, the more MS has to lose. Their entire business is built on proprietary protocols and leaving the competition in their stranglehold.

    10. Re:good to hear by MsGeek · · Score: 1
      Sonic Foundry Siren uses Fraunhofer MP3. They also have their own proprietary codec that's kinda nifty called Perfect Clarity Audio but because it's put out by a relatively small company in the Midwestern US rather than a big one in Redmond, WA nobody gives a damn about their codec.

      If memory serves Siren can handle both RealMedia and WMA as well.

      Siren even comes in a freeware version. Unfortunately only for Windows...too bad.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
    11. Re:good to hear by jonathan_ingram · · Score: 1

      RC2 will go down to 64kpbs on stereo 44.1kHz input.
      RC3 will go lower, although it's not tuned for less than 64kpbs (56kpbs sounds ok, 48kpbs ok on easy to encode music, less than that and you start getting random underwater bubble sounds).
      RC3 will also go *higher* than RC2 can: its highest quality level is nominally 480 kpbs, and you can set a higher rate than that manually.

  2. Ogg Vorbis 1.0 by SubSolar · · Score: 1

    Whatever happened to version 1.0?

    1. Re:Ogg Vorbis 1.0 by efgbr · · Score: 2, Informative

      The third release candidate (rc3) is going to be released very soon. Read here.

      But I'd advise you not to worry about "1.0". The current release is very stable, you can use it already, no fear.

  3. NPR? by Arctic+Fox · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    For a Public Radio station, everytime I listen to them, they sure to seem to be left leaning. Fucking drives me nuts.

    1. Re:NPR? by redcliffe · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I dunno about that, but it just seems damn boring when I listen to it from here in Australia. "All Things Considered" would have to be the worlds most boring radio program, with the worlds dullest presenters. Australian public radio stations are much more interesting.

    2. Re:NPR? by markj02 · · Score: 3
      It's all a matter of where you put the "center". True, NPR is more left leaning than mainstream US media. But, then, from the perspective of much of the rest of the world, US mainstream media represent the far right fringe, while NPR is closer to a conservative public interest channel.

      Altogether, I think we in the US should be glad that we have NPR. It has its problems, but it provides at least a little bit of balance in an otherwise very bleak media landscape.

    3. Re:NPR? by sheldon · · Score: 1, Troll

      Maybe you should restrict your listening to Rush Limbaugh and your television watching to FoxNews.

      Then you can get good old fashioned right-wing leaning bullshit without none of that pretending to be unbiased crap you get on regular media outlets.

    4. Re:NPR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your train of thought seems to have derailed, somewhere between acknowledging that NPR is extremist leftist and that they provide balance. Let's examine the facts, shall we?

      First NPR is a consortium of individual stations and syndicated radio shows, so we can't paint them with a broad brush. We can discuss their news reporting and news shows, though (all things considered, weekend edition, morning edition). And the fact is, they are staffed by extreme liberals. It has been said that conservative reports are reports to report the news; liberal reporters are reporters to affect public opinion. Consider that the (non-financial) news networks (with the exception of Fox news, which is more popular than CNN, despite being available in fewer homes) are also extremely liberal.

      MY local public radio station plays an hour of BBC news (with some chick Victoria) at 5:00 am each morning. I listen to half an hour of it in a groggy half sleep mode, yet it is more informative, and has less bias than 2 hours of NPR news following it.

      Additionally, NPR news consists of incredible amounts of filler material, and pathetic human interest stories.

      I do support public radio (on a local/state level), where the bias is not present. But NPR news efforts should either be retired, or required to acknowledge that they are democratic shills.

    5. Re:NPR? by aka-ed · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      For a Public Radio station, everytime I listen to them, they sure to seem to be left leaning

      "Public" radio wouldn't exist if conservative Republicans were to decide the issue, they like "private sector" solutions. So why be surprised that the government-employed workers at public stations display a bias toward the concept that governments have social obligations (the "left-Demo" view)?

      Similarly, a "conservative" public radio wouldn't be streaming ogg vorbis. You'd more likely get a nice, corporate-friendly wma stream, or some other closed, proprietary standard (a helping hand to the "private sector").

      --
      I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
    6. Re:NPR? by josef80 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and someone should tell OSDN about this fact...
      after all, I found the kernel 2.5 summit audio files
      in mp3 format, and not ogg.
      (osdn.com/conferences/kernel)
      Is there a reason for this?

    7. Re:NPR? by sheldon · · Score: 2

      Actually the one thing that all news which is incredibly biased has in common is that they keep telling you how unbiased they are.

      You won't find that on the BBC, NPR, CNN, NBC, etc.

      In fact the only stations that keep telling you that they are unbiased are FoxNews and EIB network(Rush Limbaugh). Now that should make you wonder, but I'm sure you haven't thought that far ahead in your argument.

    8. Re:NPR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The world is made tiresome by its idiots. This is why the search for information on the internet is like proverbial needles in a haystack; all the world's tiresome idiots just have to click on every submit button they see.


      Let's examine the facts, shall we?


      Facts about what, you moron? The facts of what constitutes your opinion of political direction?

    9. Re:NPR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Actually the one thing that all news which is incredibly biased has in common is that they keep telling you how unbiased they are. You won't find that on the BBC, NPR, CNN, NBC, etc.

      It is not possible to be unbiased. Every news organization has editors which choose what to publish/air and how to present it. Because the editors are human, they will have a bias. Because employers tend to hire employees with views the employer is comfortable with (especially interviewees recommended by someone else in the organization), organizations tend to develop distinct biases not matter how hard they try to not be biased.

      To mangle an ancient koan:

      In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.

      "What are you doing?", asked Minsky.

      "I am training a randomly wired neural net to be a news editor" Sussman replied.

      "Why is the net wired randomly?", asked Minsky.

      "I do not want it to have any preconceptions of what to air or publish", Sussman said.

      Minsky then shut his eyes.

      "Why do you close your eyes?", Sussman asked his teacher.

      "So that the room will be empty."

      At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.
    10. Re:NPR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
      Because it really is one or the other, isn't it?

      Kneejerk bastard...

    11. Re:NPR? by idiotnot · · Score: 1

      No, follow the money. "Mister Congressman," the NPR guy would beg, "We need more money so that we can implement streaming audio."

      "Okay, I'll support more funding for you if you consider using this codec that is marketed by a company in my district......"

      "Sure thing, sir. Anything you want."

      NPR would be the first to use Microsoft, just like the rest of the Government.

      Viable open-source players and streaming mechanisms need to be pitched to the commercial broadcasters (I am one, BTW) as an economically-viable way for them to increase their audience. NPR doesn't care about its audience; it doesn't have to. NPR will exist so long as the politicians decide to keep it in existance, even if *nobody* listens. NPR doesn't care about making money; it doesn't have to. NPR, therefore, never does anything groundbreaking.

    12. Re:NPR? by aka-ed · · Score: 1

      If commercial radio stations are going to wait for "pitchmen" to arrive to sell them on ogg vorbis, it's going to be a long wait. The open source movement doesn't have a skank-and-crank budget like the record promotors do.

      --
      I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
    13. Re:NPR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "Consider that the (non-financial) news networks (with the exception of Fox news, which is more popular than CNN, despite being available in fewer homes) are also extremely liberal ." (my emphasis)
      My lord... I nearly choked on my tea when I read that! Your perception of US media is slightly warped if you don't mind me saying, Fox news has been available on UK satellite after Sept 11th, it's on the Sky network which is all the same Murdoch/Fox stuff.

      Anyway, when I first saw Fox I serious thought it was a parody, for instance the parodies of current affairs shows on our Channel 4 isn't a patch on Fox. I wouldn't call fox a valid news network for any political persuasion, from lefties to far rights, nobody in the UK would seriously aggregate their news from that channel, it simply isn't valid journalism whatever your biases.

      I'd say Fox News is a conservative (with a little 'c') outlet without any doubt, not that there's anything wrong with that, but be under no impression it's certainly not "liberal". I'd say CNN is also viewed as conservative in Europe and around the wrold, Fox is farther right than that. The UK doesn't quite equate with Europe though.

      If you manage to watch a true liberal news network then you will probably be choking on your tea also! Murdoch runs SkyNews in the UK, it would be interesting to see what you would make of that, you would probably label it neo-communist, in the UK however it is perceived as being tabloid junk but with pictures!
    14. Re:NPR? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your political spectrum is rather miscalibrated; perhaps you simply have never stuck your head out of the muck of mainstream US political life. There is essentially no leftist or moderate reporting in the US. There is conservative reporting (NPR) and nutty right-wing populist reporting (just about everything else). Why you feel so insecure in your right wing views that you want to silence even the last of the not-quite-so-right-wing radio stations escapes me; is 99% of the spectrum and airtime not enough for you?

    15. Re:NPR? by aka-ed · · Score: 2
      Similarly, a "conservative" public radio wouldn't be streaming ogg vorbis. You'd more likely get a nice, corporate-friendly wma stream, or some other closed, proprietary standard (a helping hand to the "private sector").

      And this is off-topic exactly how? Because a cracksmoking moderator disagrees with it...

      --
      I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
  4. FP!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    FIRST POST!

  5. good to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    its good to see that someone is publicly supporting ogg... ya, npr would be good too.

  6. Ogg is good for streaming ... by Vardamir · · Score: 3, Interesting

    but for personal music jukeboxes of all shapes and sizes, I wish people would use FLAC or some other lossless audio codec. As broadband and microstorage become more common maybe these will become more used.

    1. Re:Ogg is good for streaming ... by ryanvm · · Score: 2

      for personal music jukeboxes of all shapes and sizes, I wish people would use FLAC or some other lossless audio codec.

      Good Lord, man - what a waste of memory that would be.

      The aural difference between 256 Kbps (or even 192) MP3s and a lossless codec is imperceptible to most people. However, the memory difference between the two is not. At 1.9Mb/minute for 256 Kbps MP3 versus 5.6Mb/minute for FLAC; I know which one I would choose for a limited storage digital jukebox.

      Now I'm not saying that there isn't any difference between 256 Kbps MP3s and FLAC. The difference is there - but generally, it just isn't worth it.

  7. [ot] Christmas Present for /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    here is a great Xmas Present:
    (1) this girl is the hottest girl I've ever seen
    (2) she plays Red Alert 2 and says thinkgs like "ownz"
    (3) she's a CAM WHORE
    (4) she's just turned 16.

    http://katyg3cams.diaryland.com/

    oh, (5) she's never had a boyfriend. Moo.

    Yeah, right now she's not on, but bookmark this and come back later. Trust me, she's the hottest girl I'VE EVER SEEN.. and I'm a horny troll!!!

    1. Re:[ot] Christmas Present for /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      (NOTE: SHE'S NOT ON NOW. BOOKMARK IT)

      here is a great Xmas Present:
      (1) this girl is the hottest girl I've ever seen
      (2) she plays Red Alert 2 and says thinkgs like "ownz"
      (3) she's a CAM WHORE
      (4) she's just turned 16.

      http://katyg3cams.diaryland.com/

      oh, (5) she's never had a boyfriend. Moo.

      Yeah, right now she's not on, but bookmark this and come back later. Trust me, she's the hottest girl I'VE EVER SEEN.. and I'm a horny troll!!!

  8. Way to go by PM4RK5 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If this goes over well, this could be the first big step in terms of OGG's popularity, and a step towards
    entering the realm that formats like MP3 and RealAudio have dominated for far too long.

    I opened the Radio 1 stream in XMMS, and it sounds much better than an MP3 stream at 60 kbps.

    1. Re:Way to go by BrookHarty · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Game developers are starting to using OGG, since they dont have to pay the costs for development kits, (And they are major opensource and computer hackers...)

      Also Serious Sam plays OGG in game, go download the Serious Sam 2 demo..

      I picked up a soundblaster audrey, and It comes with a dvd audio player. Now 5.1 dvd .ac3 audio rocks. Dont know if OGG supports it, but .ac3 rocks over .mp3.

  9. Nothing New by arrow · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actualy this is not a push for open-source, but a push for alternatives. BBC, from what I understand is not really happy with Real and it looking to find other formats. Over at Radio 1 they are testing Windows Media formats.

    Let the opensource, linux, anti-microsoft, beowulf cluster, and the other flames begin.

    --
    symetrix. We are building a religion, a limited edition.
    1. Re:Nothing New by SurfsUp · · Score: 2

      Actualy this is not a push for open-source, but a push for alternatives. BBC, from what I understand is not really happy with Real and it looking to find other formats. Over at Radio 1 they are testing Windows Media formats.

      Gosh, it looks like the Windows Media test ends on Jan 2, while the Ogg test continues until Jan 2002.

      --
      Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
    2. Re:Nothing New by SurfsUp · · Score: 2

      Actualy this is not a push for open-source, but a push for alternatives. BBC, from what I understand is not really happy with Real and it looking to find other formats. Over at Radio 1 they are testing Windows Media formats.

      Gosh, it looks like the Windows Media test ends on Jan 2, while the Ogg test continues until Jan 2002.


      Hmm, the ogg seems to be available as part of to Windows Media test, as well as through open source players. It seems the whole test, Windows Media and others only runs to January. Wow, source code on the link too.

      --
      Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
    3. Re:Nothing New by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2

      Actually, what's interesting is that Microsoft could offer very lucrative licensing terms for streaming .ASX Windows Media audio/video, something that could substantially undercut Real Network's licensing costs.

      Anyway, given that the Windows Media Player that can stream .ASX formats has been preinstalled on new machines with HD's formatted with Windows since Windows ME arrived in September 2000, the audience to listen to BBC broadcasts in Windows Media format is a huge one anyway.

    4. Re:Nothing New by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your assumption that the Windows Media trial means the BBC don't like Real is just that, an assumption.

      The BBC must (or should!) stand neutral in the software wars and not blithely hand its audience to Microsoft, and in doing so deny its content to the developing countries and their silent tsunami of open-source OS 486 PC's.
      Real and Ogg actually give a damn about non-Windows users and have clients for them.

      Alternatively you could just look at the new streaming media client bundled on your Desktop and conclude that Real are about to get Netscalped.
      (Hello? US Government? MS is collapsing your software industry into itself, or hadn't you noticed?)

      Ogg is the only alternative that cannot get worse (or Netscalped) and really can only get better over time.

      MS really don't give a damn what you think. You have to buy their kit regardless.

      Real probably have the best streaming software out there, but that hardly matters to a public with Windows Media preinstalled and an MS salesman waving 'installed base' figures at the boss of the boss of the team who just decided they'd stream Realmedia because it was better.

      Curiously, if Ogg reach critical mass, MS won't be able to achieve market domination by Netscalping Real. Without this prize, would they still bother?
      Assisting Ogg might actually prove to be in Real's best interests.

    5. Re:Nothing New by nihilogos · · Score: 3, Funny

      Gosh, it looks like the Windows Media test ends on Jan 2, while the Ogg test continues until Jan 2002.

      Yes, and while they have half a dozen PCs being using in the Ogg Vorbis trial there's only 6 being used in the Media player one.

      --
      :wq
    6. Re:Nothing New by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gosh, it looks like the Windows Media test ends on Jan 2, while the Ogg test continues until Jan 2002.

      Sounds to me like they end at the same time then! Or at least less than 30 days apart.

    7. Re:Nothing New by PurpleBob · · Score: 2

      You know, on Jan 2, it will be 2002. Despite how far off that sounds.

      --
      Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
    8. Re:Nothing New by tifosi · · Score: 1

      This brings another question, how hard is to to make new browsers to install piece of software/code/plug_in, with just click of a mouse
      on "unknown" by the user's machine file format.

      Ofcourse telling the user that particular software
      is getting installed, and afterwards play the file.

    9. Re:Nothing New by Vanders · · Score: 1

      Easy, you use JOrbis

      I've just tried it, and it works fine. I'm amazed, that was easier than trying to get FreeAmp to play the stream (It tells me it's skipping corrupt data, methinks I don't have the Vorbis plugins installed there).

      If the BBC combined the Ogg Stream with a modifed JOrbis player (This one is ugly but functional), it would be the equivilent of there current system where they use Real streams and the embedded Real Player in a window.

  10. Streaming? as in low-bitrate? by zcat_NZ · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I always understood ogg had a lowest bitrate of 64k, which is still a bit high for us modem-connected users.

    --
    455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
    1. Re:Streaming? as in low-bitrate? by jonathan_ingram · · Score: 1

      Vorbis can't really go below 64kpbs (although 56kpbs is sounding quite decent with RC3) and still sound decent *at 44.1kHz*. Resample the input to 22kHz, say, and you'll be able to get quite a bit lower.

      Note that RC3 will be more of an experimental release than RC2, in that it will only have full support for 44.1kHz.

  11. nothing revolutional by eracerblue · · Score: 5, Interesting

    yes, this is a small evolutional step. but when does the simulcasting revolution begin? i'm itching for something akin to broadcast: where we only use bandwidth once, not in multiples of however many listeners we have.

    1. Re:nothing revolutional by GoatPigSheep · · Score: 1

      well with shoutcast it's possible to have mirror servers that rebroadcast the signal, it's good if you have some sort of popular stream (such as one a couple years ago that broadcasted vancouver cell phone conversations, very entertaining!)

      --
      GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
    2. Re:nothing revolutional by SurfsUp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      yes, this is a small evolutional step. but when does the simulcasting revolution begin?

      You're not quite clear on the concept, this is not about simulcasting, it's about freedom. It's not about sound quality, compression or lightening the network load, it's about not having to pay the man to transmit sound over the internet, to listen to it, or to save it on CDs. It's about making sure that open source multimedia software never becomes illegal.

      i'm itching for something akin to broadcast: where we only use bandwidth once, not in multiples of however many listeners we have.

      We certainly won't ever get it if you and people like you don't get a clue. Oh sure, you'll be able to rent your music, you'll never be able to own it. You won't be able to save it on your disk. You won't be able to run Linux on your machine, or if you can, it won't be able to play your favorite band's music on your sound card. Sorry if this is going over your head a little, it's important, please make the effort to figure out what I'm saying.

      Sorry about being an arrogant bastard... Not! This is for your own good.

      --
      Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
    3. Re:nothing revolutional by Calamity+Jane · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      You're a dick. The question was about ways to conserve bandwidth by not sending a seperate stream to each user. How you got to soap-boxing about renting music is anyone's guess.

      Anyway, back to the subject: for live feeds it's easy to multicast, because there's no time shifting. For on-demand streams (say of news updates or whatever) I can't see a way to mulitcast because everyone's listening to a different point in time. Perhaps a Akaimi type solution is the best idea with current tech.

    4. Re:nothing revolutional by SurfsUp · · Score: 1

      You're a dick. The question was about ways to conserve bandwidth by not sending a seperate stream to each user. How you got to soap-boxing about renting music is anyone's guess.

      Anyway, back to the subject: for live feeds it's easy to multicast, because there's no time shifting. For on-demand streams (say of news updates or whatever) I can't see a way to mulitcast because everyone's listening to a different point in time. Perhaps a Akaimi type solution is the best idea with current tech.


      You're a dick. It doesn't matter what spiffy simulcast whizzy-bangy-thingy you have if the source code isn't free. With source code in our hands and an established media format, we can do what we want.

      Perhaps if the original poster was not a dick (starting of by damming Ogg with faint praise) I'd have contributed some of my design suggestions on how to adapt Ogg streaming for simulcasting.

      Remember, if you want to get modded up, don't start your post with 'you're a dick', it just makes you look like a dick.

      --
      Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
    5. Re:nothing revolutional by Paranoid · · Score: 1

      What you're asking for is called multicasting, and unfortunately either requires IP tunneling or hardware support every step of the way. Some IPv4 ISPs support it (starband claims to, for instance) but most don't bother to.

      As with most optional technologies, until a critical mass is reached, noone's going to bother to support it.

      Fortunately, multicasting is one of the requirements for IPv6 compliance. Of course, since IPv6 is itself currently considered another of those "optional technologies", for now people who really want this tend to roll their own.

      If you want to help, do so! People are obviously already throwing ideas around... for example, a quick websearch turned up a draft
      RTP ogg payload spec, for multicasting ogg streams.

      --
      Paranoid
      Bwaahahahahaa.
    6. Re:nothing revolutional by debrain · · Score: 2

      Multicast itself requires multicasting routers from end to end, or at least, it stops at the first non-compliant router the multicast stream encounters. Not a big deal if the big-backbones feed multicasting through. (I actually do not remember if the major backbones have multicasting; I am certain everything.com would have some notes)

      The on-demand streaming problem you present is solved with smart-caching, at least partially. It involves things like SQUID or the commercial counterparts, and the concept is very popular with some major broadband ISP's since internal broadband is still cheaper than external broadband. This is effective for repetitive data, not so much for live data, but then, live data falls under the multicasting category of network reduction. For a .ogg or what-have-you file format that streams the exact same data, all that the caching mechanism need check is that the data has not changed, which is provisioned for in the HTTP protocol.

      In the case of interim stream requests, where you want a live stream, but the existing streams are already multicast (and you need a syn/ack), a destination can be added (er, might want to check that, but the notion that it cannot is almost offensive ;) - check the RFC) and a unicast stream can preempt the multicast data so the multicast stream is not entirely out of order (and firewalls do not inherently nix them). In most relevent cases, ie. streaming video, the image will just rebuild itself with aggregate data + discrete error correction. Hence you can just plug into an existing stream happily, at least for semi-smart streamed formats.

      Brian

    7. Re:nothing revolutional by cruelworld · · Score: 1

      Are you a real live person or some IRC bot that got away? Nothing you've said has any relation to his post.

      Multicasting is a open specification. The source code exists, and yet has NOTHING to do with the format being streamed. He never mentioned source code, licensing, pirating, microsoft, windows, linux or anything. Yet somehow you found enough hints or broken fragments to start frothing at the mouth about Freedom.

      So from here, yes it does look like you're a dick.

    8. Re:nothing revolutional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It doesn't matter what spiffy simulcast whizzy-bangy-thingy you have if the source code isn't free.


      WHAT doesnt matter, you dick? Oh yeah, some incoherent, biased definition of Freedom. My, that's a pretty big word for a dick.

    9. Re:nothing revolutional by Chasuk · · Score: 2

      It's about whatever the original poster intended, allowing for permutations as the thread evolves/devolves. It isn't about self-described "arrogant bastards" dictating what it's about.

      The odds are that I'm going to die eventually. When I do, I'll have listened to tens of thousands of hours of music of my choice, watched hundreds of films that I chose, ditto that freedom for books and trips that I've planned and men or women that I've loved. In the end, I'll probably have been as happy as you are, but I won''t have ulcers.

      When I die and when you die, we'll both be in the same boat. We will cease to exist and what we owned or didn't own won't fucking matter. The difference might be that your heirs will have more shit to sort through than mine, and, if that is what you want for them, I'm happy for you. I won't necessarily be happy for them, assuming that I am still alive when you die, but that is another matter.

      I don't drive and I don't own a car. I walk nearly everywhere, and I like it that way. I rent my home, and I only buy books that I can't borrow from the library. I don't generally buy music CD's or DVD's. If I never had to buy them because I could listen to any music that I wanted, anytime that I wanted, on a continuously-streaming high-quality music server - and I could bookmark the songs that I liked in a sort of playlist - I would sell all of my music CD's tomorrow, assuming that I could afford the subscription cost. Ownership is a burden. You have to pack it when you move and unpack it when you arrive, and buy it again when it wears out or gets/lost/stolen/damaged.

      One day in not too many more years I'll be able to stroll down the street, or be backpacking up a mountainside, and say to apparently open air "Sabbath mix 6" and be able to listen to my favorite Sabbath mix without carrying anything larger than the watch I'm already wearing. I'll probably have to pay someone a subscripton for that service, as it will involve satellites and billions of dollars of technology that others worry about and maintain.

      And I'll be as free as you are sitting in your room with thousands of CD's and expensive equipment that can only become obsolete, but hey, you'll OWN your music, and I'll only be free to listen to mine because I've paid for the service.

      I'm assuming you'll have paid for your CD's, unless you pirate them all, in which case our expenses might have reached parity, but when we die our measure of happiness will have been the same.

    10. Re:nothing revolutional by SkepTech · · Score: 0

      Hay, cosmic, man.

      All you are is dust in the wind, and all that.

      Woops. The wind blew. You're gone, man.

      buh-bye.

    11. Re:nothing revolutional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps a Akaimi type solution is the best idea with current tech.

      You are right, and Akaimi (and others) _currently_ offers this service.

    12. Re:nothing revolutional by SmittyTheBold · · Score: 1

      It will be widely available when IPv6 becomes standard, I assume. That is the first IP version to really support multicasting as an integral part of the protocol.

      --
      ± 29 dB
  12. not necessarily pushing open source.... by moniker_21 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That or somebody over at the BBC thinks that it just sounds better, costs less, or any number of other advantages that Ogg Vorbis has over MP3. Using a peice of software just because it's open source seems pretty silly to me. Use a peice of software because it's better, and if that happens to be OSS that's great. If not, then it probably means that the open source community needs to focus their attention on it.

    Merry X-mas all..

    --
    I posted to /. and all I got was this stupid sig
    1. Re:not necessarily pushing open source.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you watch BBC news 24 carefully then you can see Mozilla running on some of their computers for mail!!!

    2. Re:not necessarily pushing open source.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Omigod! My nipples are hard!

    3. Re:not necessarily pushing open source.... by Malcontent · · Score: 2

      Well if it's open source it automatically costs less. Throw in a lack of a vendor lock and you got it made.

      --

      War is necrophilia.

    4. Re:not necessarily pushing open source.... by Florian+Weimer · · Score: 2

      That's exactly the difference between the Open Source and Free Software Movements: Open Source supporters like Open Source because it's better in some way, but Free Software supporters like Free Software because it's free (i.e. libre).

      Some people even think that freedom is more important than advancement of technology.

    5. Re:not necessarily pushing open source.... by Gumshoe · · Score: 2, Informative

      Using a piece of software just because it's open source seems
      pretty silly to me


      Not at all. The BBC has a legal obligation to broadcast to as
      many people in the British Commenwealth as possible. Without Ogg
      Vorbis I couldn't hear BBC web broadcasts as the commericial
      companies who pedal this sort of technology, deems me unworthy of
      it's custom.

      As a licence payer I expect nothing less that the use of Open
      Source software by the BBC. I don't pay £100 a year only to be
      told I need to use this piece of software on this piece of
      hardware in order to recieve a broadcast I have already paid for.

    6. Re:not necessarily pushing open source.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the BBC does have a large contingent of Open Source people in it's systems staff. :) If you take a look at the other support pages, you might notice that Linux gets mentioned before other OS's. For example (Paraphrased): "a PC (Running Linux or Windows) or a Mac (Running Linux or the MacOS)"

      I've also know about the Ogg stream trials for some time, and think it's great that the BBC should be trialling this (But also very worried that they are also testing WMA streams more publicly. At least with Real I could use the Free Beer Real Player on Linux!)

  13. Very cool by K8Fan · · Score: 2

    This is great! A broadcasting entity as large and well respected as Auntie Beeb boosting Ogg Vorbis is exactly the push it needs. This will also same the BBC a huge amount of money. Thomson is collecting a lot of money for Franuhoffer for every MP3 stream...money that they could use in a lot of other ways. (Maybe this will result in a reduction of the radio licence fee? Nah...) Hopefully all the other broadcasters will look at this for an example.

    I'm sure the opportunity to thumb their noses at the French (Thomson) and the Germans (Fraunhoffer) had nothing to do with their decision either.

    --
    "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    1. Re:Very cool by EpsCylonB · · Score: 2, Informative

      You aren't british are are you ?, there is no radio licence fee, it's paid for out of the television licence. You may think i'm being pedantic but it's worrying that americans think british people need a licence to own a radio.

    2. Re:Very cool by pivo · · Score: 1

      I think he was talking about a radio broadcasting licence fee. Nobody thinks the Brittish people need a licence to listen to radio, though your post seems to imply that they need a licence to view television.

    3. Re:Very cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as it happens, you do need a licence to own a television. if you are caught by the television detector vans with a television in your dwelling without one, you face a rather large fine.

      possibly imprisonment.

      what their view on a pc with a tv card is something i'm glad i no longer have to worry about explaining...

    4. Re:Very cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what their view on a pc with a tv card is something i'm glad i no longer have to worry about explaining...

      But sir, it's just an old 10Base-2 ethernet card. I swear!

    5. Re:Very cool by K8Fan · · Score: 2
      You aren't british are are you?

      No, I'm American.

      there is no radio licence fee, it's paid for out of the television licence.

      Ah, my mistake. It's a bit confusing though, that it's called the "television licence" if it covers both TV and radio. Shouldn't it be a "broadcasting licence" then?

      You may think i'm being pedantic but it's worrying that americans think british people need a licence to own a radio.

      No, but then it's hardly obvious that one would need a licence for one type of broadcasting and not the other. Americans, in general I believe, think that the whole idea of having to licence a TV set is pretty weird in the first place.

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    6. Re:Very cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't matter, it wont have a huge impact, the BBC use MPEG Layer II on the Digital Radio services in the UK, their Digital TV service also uses MPEG2 video.

      BBC R&D do a lot of work with Fraunhoffer actually.

    7. Re:Very cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it has a UVF PAL modulator then you're fucked! Despite whether the thing thing looks like a TV, PC, Microwave, dog etc.

      You'd get away with a PC with a DVB satellite tuner because you need to get a card off the BBC to watch their DVB-s broadcasts anyway, and they only give out cards to licenced addresses. Besides they use NDS encryption which isn't even available in CAM format for PC's.

    8. Re:Very cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "my mistake. It's a bit confusing though, that it's called the "television licence" if it covers both TV and radio. Shouldn't it be a "broadcasting licence" then?"
      No... because that would imply that a licence is needed for radio, which isn't the case. The TV licence just happens to also fund the radio output. But if you just have a radio it's essentially free.

      At the expense of sound hoity-toity, remember the BBC was the first broadcaster in the world long before any sort of commercial model had developed, so there was a radio and people naturally bought a radio to listen to the BBC, so they levied a royality of radio sales and you paid for a licence. There has never been any commercials on the BBC, in fact they even cover up brandnames so they don't inadvertently advertise products.

      Anyway, the licence is a good way for the BBC to collection funding independently of government, and therefore political whims. The licence isn't particularly expensive (around $170) and the content isn't so bad, and you don't have to put up with any commercials. If it ain't broke and all that.

      Surprisingly Churchill tried to bring the BBC under government control in the 40's and failed miserably with vicious consequences, nobody has dared touch it since, not even Maggie.
    9. Re:Very cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what their view on a pc with a tv card is something i'm glad i no longer have to worry about explaining...

      Neither do they. Its on Black & White on your TV Licencse now. (Hint "Pay Up!")

    10. Re:Very cool by Bloater · · Score: 1

      Everybody that owns a device which is capable of receiving and displaying colour terrestrial television broadcasts by licensed broadcasters must pay £100 per year (less if they can only display in greyscale). This license fee (TAX) is there to guarantee a quality radio and internet service to *everybody*, and to guarantee that there is quality television programing that doesn't narrow its interest to what will provide more profitable advertising slots.

      I think the BBC should only use protocols which are available to everybody at the lowest cost for any necessary reception device (ie, if it only works on windows, you have to spend more than strictly necessary based on technical grounds). This development is a very good thing, I hope they decide to make this a formally supported service after the test period. I'm certainly willing to pay the license fee for such a brilliant national public service (public services have to be paid for, and this is a great way to do it).

  14. Why? by Kjella · · Score: 2

    And it begs the question "Why?" Lossless = Zip, Rar, Jar, Ace, Arj and a bunch of other compressions. But if I can't hear the difference, what's the difference? Whoever set the human ability to hear equal to the 44,1kHz of a CD? For a select few it's maybe more, but for me it's definately less. Lame using the --remix command is more than enough for my ears (actually overkill, but I assume I someday *might* regret not setting it that high). Considering that many ppl are happy with 128kb CBR, I'm probably even picky.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Why? by SurfsUp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And it begs the question "Why?" Lossless = Zip, Rar, Jar, Ace, Arj and a bunch of other compressions.

      FLAC is specialized to and optimized for acoustic signals. Try compressing the same WAV under zip and FLAC.

      But if I can't hear the difference, what's the difference?

      Err, because you're not everybody, and some people *can* tell the difference? Or perhaps you could tell the difference if the rest of your system is good enough - reader, amplifier, speakers, room acoustics, the whole chain.


      Whoever set the human ability to hear equal to the 44,1kHz of a CD? For a select few it's maybe more, but for me it's definately less.


      Your sampling frequency needs to be *at least* twice the highest audible. 20 KHz is supposed to be the highest audible frequency for humans, and for many it's more than adequate (especially for those who never wore earplugs in nightclubs or at rock concerts). I personally was tested up to around 22 KHz, so the 20 KHz limit is bunk. Not only that, but the 2X rule (think about it) is only *in theory*. It assumes perfect filters, which don't exist. In fact you get artifacts well below what's supposed to be the high cutoff for a 44.1 KHz sample stream.

      Lame using the --remix command is more than enough for my ears (actually overkill, but I assume I someday *might* regret not setting it that high). Considering that many ppl are happy with 128kb CBR, I'm probably even picky.

      I glad for you, go ahead and listen to the sound the way you like it, but to me and many others the artifacts in 44.1KHz sound are quite audible. As for streams at 128kb, it sounds like it's being played through a phase shifter.

      --
      Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
    2. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Err, because you're not everybody, and some people *can* tell the difference? Or perhaps you could tell the difference if the rest of your system is good enough - reader, amplifier, speakers, room acoustics, the whole chain.

      And you can't tell the difference either. Tests show consistently that 256kb MP3 is undetectable from original audio. All this same bullshit was thrown out when we went from analog recording to digital recordings.

      You "audiophiles" are arrogant idiots. Your ears are NOT that golden.

    3. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Untrue - there are many samples on which MP3 can be easily discerned by anyone, even at 320 kbps and above. Some people have conclusively picked the original sample against 400 kbit Ogg, AAC and MPC files, which are inherently far higher quality than MP3.

      You really should visit Project Mayhem - there's a lot more to audio coding than "256 kbps MP3 is transparent to everyone because I say so".

      News flash. You're not everyone. Neither is the guy waving 256 kbps about (in this case, Roel).

    4. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can tell the difference between 256kb MP3 and 512. Not for every song, sure, but the sound is definately more fuzzy at 256kb for sharp clicking sounds (Aphex Twin et al).

    5. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      1. Learn what phrases mean before you use them. Esp. "begs the question"
      2. I don't know of anyone who "set the human ability to hear."
      (my apologies if english is not your primary language, it's difficult to learn, but please strive for more precise wording)
      3. Sounds near the 20kHz mark are essentially converted to sine waves by the 44,100 samples/sec of CDs. CD quality is not the best there is.
      4. Most people listen to their music as a background without their full attention. 128kbs is enough for that (and if that's all you've heard then you can't compare), but if you pay attention to the music you'll need higher.

    6. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regardless of whether you can hear it (and I think I can, although it's tricky for me to tell sometimes), letting lossy formats become *the* format is insanity. It's a shame that it's already happened with both MP3 and JPG. It's too damn hard to find good 3D textures on the net now in a lossless format. Doesn't anyone realise that the artifacts in JPG are going to degrade their entire animation? Anyway, the same applies to MP3 etc -- it may be fine to listen to by direct play, but if you want to do anything to it, even as simple as passing it through your winamp/xmms dsp filters before playing, then I'm willing to bet you're losing bigtime. God help us when we find a better audio storage format after we've all become reliant on lossy, and want to convert everything.

    7. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lossy formats aren't *the* format, that is (and will always stay) lossless, be it CD, HDCD, DVDA or whatever. Professional-quality productions require professional sources, and at the moment you have to pay for that, either in hard copies or bandwidth charges.

      That aside, CD-audio isn't sufficient for archiving either, as conversion to 'better' formats is limited therein - and I think it'll be a long time until people will send 96 khz 32 bit float tracks of individual instruments between each other. There's always a tradeoff.

    8. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 Informitive (for number 3), but i'm not a mod.

  15. I hope someone from NPR is reading this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll


    November 27. It was a quiet night. Too quiet. Well, maybe not so quiet.
    There was the sound of Tammy's hand sliding up and down my handsomest feature,
    oiled and glistening.
    "Backrub, why do these backrubs always turn into ass rubs and then front
    rubs?"
    "It helps me forget."
    "Forget what?"
    "I've forgotten."
    I haven't forgotten. It's a woman, of course. The hardest thing to
    forget.
    I peered into the screen of my computer while Tammy continued to study
    anatomy, up close and personal. She paused to slide my cock back and forth over
    her breasts.
    "Of course, I've got it!"
    She paled. "Herpes?"
    "No, the solution to the case we've been working on."
    "Thank goodness."
    Her hand started moving again. I shivered.
    "Well?"
    "Well, what?"
    "Aren't you going to tell me?"
    "Tell you what?"
    "The solution to the case!?"
    "Sure. First, here's a tissue, there's still a little spot on your cheek."
    "Thanks."
    "Here's what happened. Professor Plum used his lead pipe on Miss Scarlet
    in the Conservatory, then whacked Mrs. White with his candlestick in the
    Billiard Room. Meanwhile, Colonel Mustard was shooting his pistol
    into Mr. Green in the Ballroom. That left..."
    "Mrs. Peacock!"
    "... alone with the aptly named Mr. Peacock in the Library."
    "Amazing. To think she offed her own husband."
    "Somewhat unusual in our sort of cases."
    "I'll say. How did you think of the solution?"
    "It just came to me."
    I shivered again.
    Our pleasant wrap-up of another successful case was interrupted by a knock
    on the door.
    Tammy jumped up from between my legs, licking her fingers as she approached
    the door.
    "Who could that be at this hour?"
    "This month's rent. Let the mystery guest in, why don't you?"
    Tammy opened the door. The swinging door revealed a primly dressed woman, a
    woman whose neat appearance contrasted strongly with the stark fear on her face.
    She staggered into our little office and collapsed into one of the leather
    covered chairs facing my desk.
    "You're a lady with a problem. One you don't know how to solve."
    She looked suddenly relieved.
    "How did you know?"
    "That's the only kind of woman that walks through my door." Except for
    one, long ago.
    Tammy sat down demurely in the other chair, having quickly rebuttoned the
    front of her blouse. I continued to steal glances at her legs as I spoke with
    our new guest.
    "What's your name, dear?" Tammy was about to offer her a tissue, then
    thought better of it.
    "Celeste801."
    "That's kind of an unusual name..."
    "I come from a large family."
    "Oh."
    "And what seems to be the problem?" I wanted it out in the open right from
    the start, but didn't want to bother unzipping again.
    "I've been parodied!"
    "This is serious. Tammy, start taking all this down."
    Tammy dropped to the carpet between Celeste's legs.
    "Of course it is, how can I show my face on a.s.s. again?"
    "Did you say how can you face your ass again? Have you tried turning
    around and looking in a mirror?"
    "No, not my own ass, a.s.s., alt.sex.stories. The Usenet newsgroup devoted
    to wannafuck messages and spam. Occasionally it becomes cluttered with erotic
    stories that interfere with the enjoyment of the normal postings. I try to give
    some guidance to the readership of the group by telling them what is worthwhile
    reading. I've toiled long hard hours, at least my husband is long and hard,
    sweating over my reviews. Sometimes I have to read and reread these stories to
    see whether their content deserves reporting to my devoted following. Just
    a little to the left, dear.
    I try to be fair and objective. But..."
    "It's the kind of business where you tend to make enemies."
    "Yes. The sloppy punctuators, the grammatically incorrect, the fetishists.
    I suppose I'm really a crusader at heart."
    "Didn't you expect this someday?"
    "Yes, and I tried to protect myself. I laced my reviews with gentle humor
    and encouragement. Apparently it wasn't enough."
    "So, let's see this parody."
    She handed me a two-page printout and Tammy walked over, crawled into my
    lap, curled up in my arms and we began reading together. Tammy ran her fingers
    along my arm and I ran my open palm up and down her always-fashionable-
    in-New-York black tight-encased thighs.
    With Tammy's skirts, there's always lots of thigh to caress. She paused,
    turned her head and kissed me on the cheek, nuzzled her nose against my beard
    and then continued reading along with me. I continued stroking my favorite
    thighs.
    Tammy snickered, then broke into a full laugh. I shook with laughter
    beneath her causing my cock to rub against her ass. She leaned into me a bit
    closer and continued reading as my hand began to slide up her short skirt. My
    thumb reached her...
    "Ahem!"
    "Oh, sorry. So just what's the problem here? What's wrong with parody? Who
    would care about Regis Philbin if Letterman wasn't constantly showing him up to
    be such a dork? People make fun of celebrities all the time and they 'cry all
    the way to the bank."
    "Hugh Grant!"
    "Gulp!", said Tammy.
    "William Shatner."
    "Oprah Winfrey."
    "Arnold Schwartzenegger."
    "You spelled that incorrectly, dear," chimed Celeste.
    "But whoever it is, is funnier than I am!"
    "Yeah, well whoever this is is funnier than we are, too. Hell, this
    is funnier than Saturday Night Live has been since at least 1985."
    "That's not saying all that much," Tammy noted.
    "What really gets me is that I have no idea who this is. I see myself as a
    mother confessor to my writers and I have no certain idea of who this is. I'm
    the curious type and I think it's someone I know from my writers or readers.
    Considering how well written this parody is and the generally poor quality of
    writing talent on a.s.s., I think it can only be one of two people: SooNH,
    or Deidre Ng."
    "My sister! My sister writes erotica on the internet! My sister writes
    better than I do!"
    I'd always wondered why, when we visited dd's apartment in Brooklyn the
    computer chair always had a damp spot and smelled like some one had been
    consumer testing vibrators on it.
    "So, this parody writer goes under the name 'Celeste802.' We'll find her,
    or him, or whatever..."
    Celeste unhooked her legs from the arms of the chair. She straightened her
    skirt and stuffed her panties into her pocketbook.
    "Here's my number. Please contact me when you solve the case. I know you
    can help me. Oh, I'm so glad I came, here!"

    We walked down the street from our office to the Old Towne Tavern for
    dinner, some beers and to think the case through. After we settled down I
    excused myself and headed off to splash some water on my face. As I walked
    down the narrow back corridor my way was blocked by a young woman: 5'6", thin
    but very athletic, short dark hair, full lips and very strong legs made very
    visible by a tight, mid-thigh cotton dress.
    But it was her eyes that grabbed me, literally. I couldn't avert my eyes
    for a minute. She locked onto me and walked forward. I wondered if this is
    what deer felt like when confronted by headlights.
    She grabbed me by the front of my shirt and guided me into a walk-in cloak
    room filled with winter coats. In the back she pushed me against the wall,
    undid my pants, wrapped her fingers around my cock and stroked until I was hard,
    never letting her eyes leave mine. She rose and kissed me, hard and
    passionately. I could feel a need in her as she pressed against me.
    Then she lifted her dress to reveal that she was not wearing panties. She
    crawled up and over me until she could impale herself on my cock. My legs
    locked and she began fucking me, grinding herself against me, sliding up
    and down my pole, licking and nibbling my neck and pulsing with growing
    pleasure. I held her ass in my hands and rubbed it as we moved her up and down
    my cock and her pelvis ground itself hard against me. Her tongue licked my neck
    and I felt a slight pinch. Suddenly I felt as if I was being fucked twice. She
    started to come just as I heard...
    "Hey!!! Get your undead fangs out of my man!"
    Tammy was standing beside us pushing a cheap crucifix into the mystery
    woman's face. The mystery woman cursed, mumbled something about the East Side,
    dismounted from me and walked off in a huff.
    "Will you pleeze stop thinking with your dick all the goddam time? That
    was a vampire who was about to turn you into her early dinner!"
    "I'm not sure that..."
    "Look, I know that almost nothing in 'New York' magazine is true, but the
    rumors and gossip are important to our work. Didn't you read the "Vampire
    Hangouts Between 14th and 34th Streets" article I left in your inbox?"
    "Um, no."
    "Sometimes you are hopeless."
    Then she paused and a familiar mischievous grin came across her face.
    "She didn't let you come, did she?"
    "Well, you...."
    I was interrupted by Tammy dropping to a squat in front of me, her skirt
    now riding all the way up her thighs. She took my cock and began sucking it.
    "Now, who's cock is this?" she asked as she stroked it and looked up at me.
    "Yours..." She knows me far too well for this, or me, to last very long.
    "And who has the only pussy and mouth this cock is allowed in unless it's
    absolutely necessary for work?"
    "You do..." I was starting to tighten and shiver.
    "And whose tongue are you going to come on right now..."
    She looked up at me, her blouse open, her braless breasts exposed, her
    tongue flat and wide and stretched out. She ran it under the head of my cock
    and she stroked me. I contorted in pleasure, snapped my head back and forced
    myself to look as I spurted onto her sweet tongue and into her mouth. She
    immediately engulfed my rod, slurping loudly right through my orgasm and after
    shocks. Afterward she rose, held me close, and kissed me so I could taste my
    own saltiness.
    "By the way, you never seemed religious. Where'd you get the crucifix?"
    "How soon they forget...don't you remember playing 'Catholic School Girl'
    the other night?"
    I'd forgotten the details so we walked downtown to Tammy's apartment, she
    changed into a plaid skirt and white shirt and we spent the evening jogging my
    memory.

    November 28.

    We spent the day calling some old contacts and booking travel
    arrangements. After dinner we took the subway to Park Slope to pay an
    unannounced visit to Tammy's older sister, Deidre Ng. Tammy had been
    distracted all day. She looked the way I do when I know I have to go out
    and put a bullet in someone I know. Tammy was concerned that there was a part
    of her sister's life she hadn't known about. Maybe there was a reason she was
    being so secretive, other than being some oversexed intellectual.
    As we made our way up the three flights to dd's Tammy still had the
    determined look in her eyes. In one fluid motion she slid her key into
    the first lock, then into the second, then the third and the door opened. A cat
    came running toward us, Tammy glared at it and the feline made a 90 degree turn
    off behind a couch. I expected there was some history there. Tammy gave me a
    look that said, "Stay here," so I took off my battered trench coat and took a
    seat in dd's kitchen as she moved toward dd's closed bedroom door. She knew her
    business and her sister so I sat back to listen. I heard the door open but not
    slam shut again. I checked out the scotch sitting in a shelf in the kitchen and
    kept an ear open.
    "Hey!!!"
    "Well, well, well..."
    "Don't you believe...in calling, or knocking..or making a reservation?!"
    "Caught in flagrante delicious, eh dd?"
    "Would...you...please...leave..."
    "Not until I've asked you a few questions, dear sister."
    "I can't concentrate...when you're standing there...watching us..."
    "Oh, you mean you can't...cummmm all over your boyfriend's dick,
    riding it like that, when someone's watching? Hey, studly, I'll bet you don't
    have any problem staying hard at the thought of my watching, do you, big boy.
    Bet you'd like me to join in. Dream on hardstuff, but you'd like it even better
    from my perspective. If dd were facing you instead of me you could see her
    rubbing her clit while she rides your, actually very nice-looking, cock."
    "Tammy, of all the creepy things...you've..."
    "So, you've been writing nasty stories for alt.sex.stories?"
    "Actually, it's a bit more than that...I've been... publishing...our
    letters to each other."
    dd's voice sounded like Tammy better finish the interrogation soon.
    "You published our letters!? About first blowjobs? About my seducing
    that cute guy, finding out he was a virgin and then sucking him in the school
    darkroom?!"
    "Ye-e-e-s...could you please leave now and yell at me later? I
    really want to cum now."
    "Not so fast Little Miss Cumstories, what about Celeste802? Who is
    it?"
    "How should I...know? They only...published that one take-off on
    'Celestial Reviews'...and..."
    "And what! Do I have your permission to search you hard disk?"
    "I don't care! Would you just get the hell out of here so I
    can...finish..."
    "Keep her for another fifteen minutes, studcakes. She likes being
    eaten about five minutes after she comes."
    Tammy reappeared in the kitchen.
    "Tough job, Tammy. Can I smell your fingers?"
    But we still had work to do. We moved to the living room and with
    Deidre and her squeeze in the background sounding like guests on Rikki Lake's
    "Couples Who Make Way Too Much Noise During Sex" show, we searched dd's hard
    drive. Celestial Reviews, the one Celeste802 piece, but nothing else that
    matched. Tammy slid a disk into the drive and copied everything containing her
    name and then we left.
    Later, back at my place we settled down to a couple of scotches and
    hard copy of dd's collected works. This led to my giving Tammy a backrub, which
    led to an assrub, which led to a clit rub, which led to the next morning.

    Saturday, November 30.

    The next stop in our search for this electronic phantom. The five-hour
    ride into New England was relatively uneventful. An hour of driving. Then
    Tammy was squirming in her seat. I grabbed the wheel while she pulled off her
    tights and panties and slid a pillow under her ass. I oiled my fingers and
    slowly massaged her pussy lips as she drove. Her right foot on the accelerator,
    left leg bent and spread with her bare foot resting on the seat, I rubbed and
    fingered her pussy with one hand and rubbed her bare thighs with my other.
    Unbuttoning her blouse, I added tonguing her nipples until she got close
    and I wanted to be able to watch her come. I could feel her thighs starting to
    pulse and shiver, neuromuscular conflict between her impending loss of control
    and her maintaining control of the nerve function between six or seven brain
    cells in the rational and visual parts of her cortex and the muscles controlling
    her foot on the accelerator, or if the need arose, the brake. She kept her eyes
    on the road but kept stealing fleeting glances at me, like a tease, knowing I
    wanted the eye contact. She bit her lip as I quickened my rubbing her clit,
    pulsed her back and came, squirming against the seat and pressing her wet pussy
    against my large soft hand. I moved closer to her, kissed her bare shoulder and
    continued rubbing her bare thighs for many minutes longer.
    She reached into my lap, unzipped me and wrapped my favorite fingers around
    my cock. I glanced at the clock and reached for the FM radio buttons when the
    meaning of Saturday 1:00 P.M. sunk in. I had an idea.
    The familiar voices filled the car.
    "Hello and welcome to 'Car Talk.' We're Click and Clack, the Tappett
    Brothers, known to the IRS and local teamsters as Tom and Ray Magliozzi. We're
    here to answer your questions about cars, car maintenance, hair sprays and the
    Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything. Before establishing that my
    brother Tommy doesn't remember last week's 'Puzzler,' let's get right
    to the phones."
    As the NPR philosopher-mechanics of the air began not answering their first
    caller's question, I rummaged around in Tammy's pack for the cell phone. I
    dialed the number from memory. That's the thing about growing up in the
    sixties, smoking pounds of pot, serving an intelligence agency (sic) for six
    years and then coming back to the States. I can't remember which drawer I keep
    my socks in but I remember the call-in number for the NPR station in Boston.
    "Hello, you're on Car Talk."
    "Hi, this is...um..her, what the hell, Backrub from New York. Actually,
    we're on the Mass Pike right now heading east."
    "Backrub from New York? Do you know Shiatsu from San Francisco?"
    As the Brothers Magliozzi cracked up I began to wonder whether this was
    such a good idea.
    "So, what's your question, 'Rub?"
    "Let's say you're driving east on the Mass 'pike approaching Amherst, and
    you're with 'someone special' and you're in a 1974 Saab 99, which is quite
    comfy..."
    "The fuel injected model?"
    "No carbureted."
    "Good, the fuel injected model that year was horrible."
    "Anyway, the special someone thinks its a comfy car but also wants to find
    someplace where you can, er, be alone, if you know what I mean. Anyplace in the
    area you would suggest?"
    "Whoa! This is a family show, even though the family may be the Simpsons!
    You're going to ruin our image with a question like that."
    "That's not possible Tommy," laughed Ray.
    "OK, just to get you out of here and us out of potential trouble with the
    FCC...is there still an FCC or did Newt defund them also? We haven't gotten any
    threatening letters from them lately and..."
    "Tommy! Don't rant! What my doddering brother is trying to say is: Pull
    into any parking lot at UMass, they couldn't care less what you do. But don't
    say we sent you! And don't ride like my brother!" (Both laugh loudly, bang on
    countertops)
    Tammy swerved to make the exit ramp and within another ten minutes we were
    parked under trees in a far corner of a huge lot at the above-referenced campus.
    I was sitting in the back seat. Tammy was straddling me, kissing me over and
    over again softly and sweetly, but certainly not chastely. She held my cock in
    her hand and gently squeezed and rubbed it as she slid the head of my cock back
    and forth over her pussy lips. Inserting no more than the very tip, she used
    the silky soft but firm head to massage her lips and clit. I could feel wetness
    and my cockhead getting moist. She slid herself up and down my cock and then,
    without warning, slid me inside in one smooth motion. We both gasped and kissed
    deeply. I held her ass in my hands as we fucked steadily grinding ourselves
    against each other. I slid a finger into her ass and she called out. She
    whispered into my ear, asking me to empty my balls into her. She whimpered,
    said my name over and over again and came hard against me. I pushed up into
    her, held her very tight and came, looking into her eyes and tasting her lips.

    We pulled into the long gravel road leading to the somewhat rustic house at
    around 3 P.M. The red Miata and the Range Rover parked in front suggested that
    the woman we sought was home. Before announcing ourselves, we decided to check
    the place out a bit. We didn't notice anyone inside as we peered into windows.
    A garden in back, winding down for the winter. A Nordic Track and some other
    exercise equipment in a side room. Nice place. Lots of books strewn about and
    lots of bookshelves. Well read. We quietly let ourselves into the back and
    listened for people and sounds as we crept or skulked into the home of SooNH.
    As we walked down a wood floor corridor we heard the clicking of keys and a
    woman's heavy breathing. Tammy moved ahead slowly and then stopped, motioning
    me ahead slowly. As we peered into the room we could see facing half away from
    us a striking blond woman with long hair writing distractedly at a Mac, her body
    twitching as she tried to write. Kneeling between her legs was a man of
    about 40, sucking her pussy with quite some enthusiasm. She appeared to be torn
    between giving it up to his ministrations, and dedication to whatever she was
    writing.
    "Robert, I love it, but I need to get this out tonight before the guests
    arrive."
    "Mmmmfph!"
    "I know it tastes good, but I can't write and..."
    Tammy backed up against me and I slid a hand down and up her skirt. She
    whispered, "You are bad!" but her own had come behind her and began rubbing me
    from outside. I unbuttoned and unzipped my jeans to give her something to keep
    her hands busy. I began to rub my cock against her bare ass, just where she
    held it.
    Soo's self control was stronger than ours. She grabbed her lover by the
    hair, whispered something to him and he stopped and rose, looking dejected and
    very horny. He started to leave and we beat a hasty retreat out the back door,
    also having been deprived of release.
    We watched him leave in the Rover and waited five minutes before ringing
    the bell. Soo answered after a minute, dressed in a beautiful robe that looked
    like a Navaho blanket.
    We introduced ourselves and she led us into the living room.
    On the coffee table I spotted several volumes from the "Beautiful Cooking"
    series and printed copies of several of Celeste801's reviews, and a copy of
    Celeste802's parody, with handwritten notes...
    "So, what do you know about this 'Celeste802' character?"
    "Just what I read on a.s.s."
    "Are you going to make that lame joke twice in the same story?" Tammy
    asked, glaring at me.
    I let my partner/lover's remark sit and went on.
    "But right here you have all of Celeste801's reviews, a copy of the parody,
    and your own handwritten notes!"
    "Look I value my privacy and...how did you even locate me?"
    "There are only three red Miatas registered in the entire state, and two of
    them belong to accountants. Anyway, we're pretty sure you know more than what
    you're telling us!"
    Before Soo could respond, Tammy had whipped out her Home Shopping Network
    leather cuffs, grabbed Soo's wrists and slapped them on with Velcro (TM). We
    both grabbed her and slid her down on her stomach on the floor. Before she knew
    what was happening, her wrists were lashed to her heavy oak coffee table. We
    each grabbed a very shapely ankle and applied the other pair of
    late-night-mail-order bondage accessories, had her legs spread-eagled and tied
    to a chair and her sofa. We pulled off her robe and she was...delightful. I
    made a mental note to reread all of her stories two or three times when we got
    back to New York.
    The sight of her twitch and strain against her bonds when I slapped her ass
    made a big dent in my professional demeanor.
    "So you won't talk, will you? We'll see about that!"
    "Is he for real?" Soo asked Tammy.
    "Most of the time."
    I slapped her again, and she twitched again. I spanked her repeatedly and
    I noticed that she was starting to grind herself against the floor.
    Tammy, ever observant, noted,"You know, babe, this only works if the person
    does not want to be spanked."
    "Oh yeah, well take that (slap!) and that (slap! slap!)" Soo was starting
    to breathe like someone who had been getting her pussy licked thoroughly fifteen
    minutes ago, didn't get off and now had some nut spanking her very nice ass.
    Tammy, deciding to take a different tack, sat on the floor in front of Soo,
    grabbed her head and drew her pussy up against and under Soo's face. From the
    look on Tammy's face this wasn't going exactly as I had planned. I reached
    underneath Soo and began fingering her pussy and ass.
    "OK, so, we'll get you very high and we won't let you come!"
    Have you ever seen a woman laugh when she has another woman's pussy in her
    mouth? Well it was like that. Didn't do much for my professional credibility.
    I tried to remind myself of my goals as Soo's hips made movements that I don't
    ordinarily associate with stopping fingering a woman's pussy and ass. Soo
    ground her pussy against my hand and squirmed from my finger sliding deep
    into her tight, and very very nice ass. The muscles in her back stood taut and
    head shook as she ate Tammy. She pulled against her bonds and I wished I had
    another hand to take out my cock.
    I adore the sound of a woman coming with a full mouth, in this case, full
    of Tammy. Soo may have been limited to muffled cries, but Tammy was not nearly
    so reserved, looking into my eyes across Soo as she shivered and came.
    "Nnnnhhhh!" said Sooo.
    Funny, I always thought it referred to New Hampshire.

    On our way out we passed a group of people coming up the path, apparently
    arriving for the party Soo had mentioned to her friend. A cop, a bearded guy in
    a flannel shirt, jeans and work boots carrying a large wooden dildo, a
    tense-looking housewife, two college kids, and a beautiful bronze woman from the
    Caribbean who touched Tammy and called her 'darlin' as we passed.
    "The Village People for the '90's?" asked Tammy as we slid back into the
    car.

  16. air LACE, air laCe, airLACE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    NOT airlaNce!!! Someone get a spellchucker to tim and taco!

  17. even better to read! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic


    Theresa licked her lips. "You were delicious." She glanced over, saw her
    pet resting. "Thor!"

    The dog opened his eyes and whimpered. His tail slapped on the rug as his
    mistress's voice excited him.

    "C'mere, boy," Theresa said, slapping her thigh. "C'mere."

    Yelping, Thor climbed to his feet and padded over to his mistress. He
    picked up the scent of cum on Theresa's face. His drooping tongue slapped
    eagerly at his mistress's juice coated face.

    "Mmmm," Theresa sighed. "He loves the taste of your cum."

    Nancy stared hypnotically. She feasted her eyes on Thor, his sleek tan
    body built for power. She leered at Theresa, devouring the woman's lush flesh
    with her eyes. Passion returned, filling her, warming her body. "Does he lick
    you?" she asked.

    "He does everything to me," Theresa said. "While my husband is away, Thor
    takes care of all my needs."

    Nancy swooned, imagining all the needs Theresa implied. It was too
    astounding to believe. "Can I watch him lick you?"

    "Sure," Theresa, said. She petted Thor's smooth tan coat, easing the huge
    Dane onto his side.

    Thor whimpered and lifted his head, his tongue hanging out. His gaze
    darted from his beautiful mistress to Nancy, then back again. He dropped his
    head on Theresa's lap, his body twitching, expectant.

    "Did you ever touch his cock?" Theresa asked, rubbing Thor's belly.

    Nancy gulped. There was no sense lying to her. "Yes," she whispered. "I
    jerked him off."

    "He really creams, huh?" Theresa giggled. She scratched her nails on
    Thor's powerful thighs. "A regular broken hose."

    Nancy nodded, remembering the doggie-jizz as it had splattered from his
    cock and drenched her body.

    Theresa saw the way Nancy was staring at Thor's hairy sheath and balls.
    "His cock needs playing with," Theresa said. "Why don't you show me how you got
    him hard?"

    Nancy blushed. She gulped back her shyness and squirmed close. She
    caressed Thor's belly. "You said there were better ways to break my cherry,"
    she panted. "Tell me."

    Theresa settled back, leaning against a chair, Thor's head in her lap.
    "Cockmeat is the best way to bust cherry skin, Nancy. Nice hard thick
    cockmeat."

    Nancy swooned. "I know, but I'm so shy. I could never let a boy stick his
    cock in me." She was massaging the thick-skinned sheath that housed Thor's
    giant doggie-prick. "Who said anything about boys?" Theresa winked, her eyes
    glancing at Thor's pointed prick as his cock peeked out, greased and seeping.
    "Cockmeat can be found in a lot of places other than between the legs of some
    blabber-mouthed boys."

    "A man?" Nancy gasped, knowing she could never do that. Her innocence was
    showing.

    Theresa thought about her husband and how much he would like getting
    between the sweet virgin's thighs. She erased the thought. Maybe later, when he
    returned home. Now there was Thor. "How about what you're holding in your
    hand?" Nancy's face was filled with shock. "Thor?"

    "Why not? You can see his prick. It's nice and long. He can fuck for hours
    and never get tired, and he obeys my every command."

    "Yes, but a dog?" The idea boggled the teenager's mind. She stopped
    playing with his sheath, her gaze glued to Theresa's face, seeking if any signs
    that the older woman was teasing her. There were none.

    "I'm not joking," Theresa said, watching the child's inquisitive eyes with
    her own. "He's fantastic. He's the only thing that has helped me keep my sanity
    since Gary had to go away on his new job."

    Nancy's eyes bugged out. "You... you let Thor fuck you?" Her head was
    swimming in a sea of erotic pictures. "God!"

    "Every night," Theresa said. She looked at Thor, saw his cock peeking out
    more. "He's getting hard. Keep playing with him."

    Nancy looked at Thor's cock. A lump clogged her throat. An image of Thor
    fucking the beautiful woman made her dizzy. She thought about when the Dane had
    tried sticking his cock in her asshole. She gulped. "He... almost did it to
    me," she whispered. "I wanted him to lick my ass, and he jumped up and tried to
    fuck me."

    Theresa smiled. "I'll bet he scared you."

    Nancy nodded. She stared at his prick, imagining his prick piercing her
    cherry. "God, he'd rip you apart."

    "I know," Theresa said. "Thor isn't for beginners." She joined the sexy
    teenager, stroking Thor's balls as Nancy's nimble fingers coaxed out more hard
    delicious inches from his cockshaft.

    Nancy gasped, drooling as she ogled Thor's giant piece of hard prickmeat.
    "Can I watch him fuck you?" Her heart was racing.

    "You can even stick it in me if you want." Theresa brought her fingers up
    the length of Thor's massive cock. "It'll get you hot watching him fuck this
    beautiful piece of cockmeat into my pussy."

    "Ooooo, Theresa," Nancy sighed. "Can I really stick his cock in you?"

    "Sure," Theresa said. "Now watch this."

    Spellbound, Nancy watched Theresa drop down to the dog's cock. "Ohhh...
    what are you-" the rest of the question wasn't needed. Theresa's mouth circling
    around the pointed head of the dog's prick told her all she wanted to know.

    "Mmmmm," Theresa hummed as she swirled her tongue over Thor's doggie cock.
    She sucked, gobbling the hard thick hulking cockshaft into her mouth. Her lips
    touched Nancy's fingers that were still frozen to the base of Thor's bulky
    prick.

    "Ummmm," Nancy moaned. She took her fingers away. Staring, she found it
    hard to believe the extraordinary sight she was witnessing. Theresa's mouth had
    gobbled the entire length of the dog's cock into her mouth Nancy gasped,
    choking as if her own throat were clogged with doggie cock.

    Thor thrashed on his side, his rump jerking, his cock fucking Theresa's
    hot mouth. He lifted his head and looked at the mesmerized child, whimpering,
    his tongue drooping from his open mouth.

    Theresa sucked, making her pet Dane howl. She felt the child's gaze on her
    and treated Nancy to a marvelous sight.

    With Thor twisting on his side, his ass lunging, Theresa sucked and chewed
    his cock. She used her tongue, whipping it over his prickshaft. A deep suck,
    her cheeks drawn in, kept the yelping dog a prisoner.

    Thor went crazy. He rolled onto his back, every muscle in his body working
    frantically to fuck his cock into his mistress's throat. His front paws clawed
    the carpet. His hind legs twitched. Jerking in the air, he twisted.

    Theresa released him, popping her mouth quickly off his cock. She looked
    at Nancy. "What did you think of that?" she licked her lips.

    Nancy was speechless. She looked at Thor's cock which was soaked with
    spit, then at Theresa' s flushed face and wet glistening mouth. She gulped,
    unable to find the words to express what she was feeling.

    Thor sat up and barked. His tail slapped at the rug. His big bulging black
    eyes rolled. His muscles twitched under his thick tan coat. He was a nervous
    bundle of energy ready to detonate.

    "It sort of gets him all crazy," Theresa giggled. She winked lewdly.
    "Makes him fuck me better."

    "Oooo," Nancy swooned. She looked at Thor's cock. His prick was gigantic.
    "Are... you going to fuck him now?" Her voice echoed her passionate mind-blown
    feelings.

    "If you're ready to stick his cock in me," Theresa sighed, "I'm ready.
    Sucking you off and sucking Thor has me feeling like a lighted firecracker."

    "I'm ready," Nancy nodded. Her blue eyes misted over as she watched
    Theresa get on her hands and knees. She stared at Theresa's gorgeous ass. She
    wanted to lick it, but seeing Thor fuck her was what she wanted to see now.
    Nancy didn't want anything to delay it. Next time, she thought, feasting her
    eyes on Theresa's ass.

    "Make sure you get his cock in my pussy. Sometimes," Theresa explained,
    "when we're alone, he misses and plows my asshole." She wriggled her ass. "I'm
    ready."

    Thor padded over to his mistress's quivering body. He sniffed her ass and
    swiped his tongue up through her ass crack. Yelping, he leaped up, catching
    Nancy, for a brief second, off guard.

    "Hurry!" Theresa squealed, wiggling her hips. "Aim his cock. Get him in my
    cunt." She was shaking.

    Thor blanketed his mistress with his powerful body. His rump jabbed. His
    long overgrown cock fucked at the cheeks of his mistress's ass. Yelping his
    frustration, he pranced on his hind legs, jabbing and missing both Theresa's
    pussy hole and asshole.

    Nancy came out of her daze, reached under, gripped the jabbing hulk of
    Thor's throbbing cockshaft. Shaking, she aimed his prick at the gaping wet hole
    of Theresa's pussy. The dog's next violent lunge, with Nancy's help, found the
    right fuckhole.

    Thor howled. His cock fucked deep, stuffing Theresa quickly with the
    entire length of his cock. His tail curled, and he yelped again, his cock
    fucking a mile a minute.

    "He's fuckin' me. Nancy... he's in... ooooo!" Theresa went insane.

    Nancy gasped, still keeping her fingers at Theresa's sopping pussy. She
    felt the fucking thrusts of his cock. His groin touched her fingers, mashed
    them into Theresa with each stab. "Oooo," she moaned, pulling her fingers away.
    She looked at them. Pussy juice coated her fingers. She sniffed them. Without
    thinking, she sucked her fingers clean. The taste of pussy burned into her
    brain.

    Shaking with excitement, the hulking Great Dane shivered with lust. His
    muscles rippled beneath his sleek coat. His large front paws held firm on
    Theresa's bare back. He yelped, spittle dripping off his tongue. Jabbing
    thrusts and yelping cries mixed with the squishing noises from Theresa's
    ravaged pussy.

    Thor fucked harder, faster. Theresa's blow job had really primed him. He
    fucked, his heavy cum-crammed balls swinging, slapping against the back of
    Theresa's juice-stained thighs.

    "Oooo, Nancy. Nancy. He's fucking me to death. I'm in heaven. Ooooo, it
    feels so wonderful!" She twisted her neck, stared at the hypnotized child.
    "Oooo, Nancy. You're gonna love it!"

    Nancy was mute. Her gaze flowed eagerly over the giant dog. Her body
    quivered as if Thor were invading her pussy with his mighty cock. "Oooo, I'm
    creaming just watching," Nancy gasped. She stared at Thor's jabbing rump,
    Theresa's swinging tits, Thor's straining neck. Theresa's face contorted.

    Theresa jabbed back, meeting the hard demanding thrusts of her pet She
    used her cunt muscles, wrapped them tight around his plowing shaft, soaked his
    fucking prick in frothy pussy juice.

    Fucking in and out of her exquisite pussy, Thor howled. He danced on his
    hind legs, keeping balance on the thick carpet. He yelped as Theresa's cunt
    muscles began to methodically milk his prick, urging the churning cum in his
    balls to ignite.

    Theresa bucked like a wild horse. She jerked back and forth, matching the
    blinding speed of her pet Dane. "He's deep. Deep in my pussy." She snapped her
    head around, gazed at Thor, then at the entranced teenager. "He's so fucking
    deep!"

    Nancy gasped, watching Theresa's eyes roll into her skull. "Does it hurt?"
    she whispered huskily.

    "Unnnn. Noooo," Theresa moaned. "Only pleasure!" As if to prove what she
    meant, she went into spasms, her face contorting into a mask of pleasurable
    lust.

    Nancy almost fainted. She kept her eyes trained on them both, experiencing
    the fuck as if it were happening to her. Her fingers became acting on her own
    virgin pussy. Nancy's soft whimpering sobs blended with the dog's yelping howls
    and Theresa's wailing cries of bliss.

    Theresa saturated her dog's cock with a deluge of thick greasy
    pussy-cream. She tightened her cunt muscles, making him yip like a puppy. "Fuck
    me, Thor. Fuck me!" She jammed back, loving her pet's strength, the length of
    his cock and the speed of his fucking thrusts.

    Thor fucked in all the way, his heavy body pressing down on his mistress's
    back. His hard fucking stabs had Theresa sobbing, moaning. His cock swelled
    inside her clenching cunt. Warm squishy fuck juice flowed from her clinging
    cuntlips, soaking his swinging balls.

    "Ooooo!" Theresa's body quaked under the powerful fucks of her Great Dane.
    Her swollen tits hung heavy and swung erotically. Arms stiff, palms flat,
    thighs apart, she rocked back and forth. "More, Thor. Faster, boy." With Thor
    howling and yelping, Theresa jammed back, matching him stroke for stroke. "He's
    tearing me apart. Ooooo... God!"

    The giant animal's body rippled with the power that was surging through
    each finely tuned muscle. The cock fucked deep, piercing the buttery ooze of
    her squishy cunt muscles. His front paws gripped tighter. His hind legs
    pranced. He yelped, and whined, his pointed ears drawing back against his head.

    A never-ending flow of pussy-cream bathed his purplish-red cockshaft.
    Lightning fast lunges, greased by Theresa's fuck juices, gave the giant beast
    the speed they both needed to reach the peak.

    "Fuck me, Thor! Ram it, you bastard!" Theresa's drunken eyes found the
    blonde teenager. "He's so good. I love his cock. Oooo, do I love his cock!"

    Nancy's breath caught in her chest. She had never seen anything as erotic
    and she knew, by her own limited experience, the best was yet to come.

    Theresa's eyelids began to flutter. Her lush body went into spasm. Her
    tongue whipped out over her gasping mouth. "Oh... I'm so close." She found a
    blurred vision of the enthralled child. "I'm gonna cum, Nancy. Gonna cream his
    cock any second now!"

    Feverish with lust, her body glistening with the sweat of her passion,
    Theresa mashed her cunt back at her frantic pet Dane. She heard him whimper,
    felt his smooth furry coat against her sensitive skin. Her seething hot pussy
    gripped his fucking prickshaft tight, then contracted and gripped again in a
    steady erotic beat.

    Thor yelped. His prick became bloated with cum. His balls churned, ready
    to blast his mistress's pussy with the scalding jizz that rumbled in his balls.

    Her breath caught in her throat, then escaped. "I'm, there. Oooo, I'm
    ready!" Theresa whipped her head back, the cords in her neck straining, ready
    to snap as she rocked her way towards an explosive orgasm. "Fuck me! Fuck me!"

    Like never before, Theresa climaxed. Having someone watch, someone to
    share her lust with, added fuel to her already overheated body. "I'm cumming!
    Creaming."

    Nancy fell back, mouth open, eyes popping. It was happening. "Fuck her,
    Thor. Fuck her hard!" Nancy became caught up in the stormy passion that already
    had Theresa and her Dane in its grip. "Fuck him, Theresa. Cream his cock!"

    "I am! I am!" She rammed herself at her pet, wanting all of his cock,
    craving the first load of cum that she knew was swelling his balls and prick.
    "Cum boy. Cream me! Cum, Thor!"

    Thor yelping loud, his rump like a pounding machine that fucked his cock
    into the stormy center of Theresa's cunthole exploded. Hot squirting wads of
    stringy doggie-jizz shot through his pisser and splattered the steamy depths of
    her cunt. He howled, lifting his head and straining his neck.

    "He's cumming! I feel it! He's squirting in my pussy." Theresa went crazy.
    Her own orgasms and that of her dog snapped her mind. She rocked back and
    forth, absorbing the punishing blows of her dog's horrendous stabs. Each one
    carried a thick glob of doggie-jizz that flooded her already-overflowing pussy.

    Yelping, his balls erupting, his cock spewing out cum, Thor fucked deeper,
    harder, faster. His mistress's screaming voice and jerking body pushed him to
    greater feats of strength. His hairy body fused to her sweaty flesh. His balls
    ruptured again. A stream of jizz squirted from his cock.

    "I'm drowning! Drowning in his cum!" Theresa looked at Nancy. "He's
    creaming me," she moaned, "Ooooo. His cock is heaven."

    Nancy imagined all the cum from Thor's cock squirting into Theresa's
    pussy. It sent an orgasm through her virgin cunt hole, a jealous orgasm that
    made her sob with frustration.

    Orgasms attacked Theresa's pussy from every angle. She loved it, took the
    fight to the beast. She slammed back. "Fuck me, Thor. Fuck me, slave!" Her cunt
    sucked up his cum as it spurted from his prick. Jizz filled her pussy hole,
    overflowed the puffy cuntlips and oozed down her body.

    Thor's black eyes drifted into his skull. His rubbery lips drew back,
    baring his dangerous fangs. Tail between his legs, ears flat against his skull,
    and his neck stretched forward, he looked like a demon ravaging its victim. His
    loud yelps grew noisier with Theresa's screams. His hairy balls kept churning
    the jizz out as fast as his cock could spit it into her pussy. Cum dribbled
    down his emptying balls.

    Theresa, rocking on all fours, bearing the brunt of Thor's attack and his
    weight, screamed. Gritting her teeth, she manipulated her cunt muscles,
    tortured Thor's cock and turned him into a whimpering pussy. She jerked her
    hips from side to side, slammed back her ass into his driving body. Squishing
    noises echoed in the room as their bodies slapped into each other.

    Theresa seemed to freeze. Her eyes rolled. "Aghhhhh!" The pounding
    strength of her dog and the draining of her orgasm weakened her. Elbows
    buckling, she collapsed. Clawing the carpet, she kept her ass perched high,
    allowing her pet to finish fucking her.

    Thor whimpered, his tongue swinging from his open mouth. He lost his
    footing. His cock, still squirting cum, popped from Theresa's pussy. He sprayed
    her back with white pearl drops of doggie-jizz. He dropped to all fours,
    sniffing now at the red ravaged hole of Theresa's fucked-out pussy.

    Theresa, writhing on the floor, allowed her pet to clean her cunt with his
    tongue. She whimpered as his tongue slithered deep inside her sensitive pussy
    and lugged out the cum he had Just squirted there.

    "Oooo, no more," she moaned, rolling over. She pushed him away, looked at
    a stunned Nancy. "What did you think of that?"

    Nancy found her voice. "When can I do it?" She was ready. She wanted to be
    fucked more than anything else in the world.

    Theresa knew this and smiled. "I have a friend. She has a Dalmatian. You
    know, white, black spots... a fireman's dog."

    Nancy nodded. "Yeah... and?"

    "I'll call her on the phone, invite her over here and mention you. You can
    go there tomorrow night and babysit for her kid. While you're there... you know
    what to do." "I sure do," Nancy giggled. She looked at Theresa. "Does your
    friend do the same things with her dog?"

    "Kitty is dog crazy and her dog is as good as Thor. She doesn't know I
    know." She winked. "So don't say a word. Enjoy Pepper and tell me all about it
    later."

    "When can I fuck Thor?" Nancy's eyes were filled with desire for the great
    Dane.

    "After you've practiced on a smaller dog" She grabbed Nancy's hand.
    "C'mon. Let's have something to eat. Then I'll have Thor lick you off."

    Nancy followed her out to the kitchen. She was anxious to have Theresa
    watch her cum. She was also anxious to meet Pepper, the dog who would make her
    a woman.

  18. 1.0 specs & timeline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic


    Cindy watched Valerie's foot rub the dog's cock and balls and saw his
    naked cock-knob flare out. His piss-hole was parted and moist, pre-cum
    bubbling out. Cindy still didn't believe that Valerie would actually fuck
    a dog - let alone give one a blow-job.
    Letting a doggy lick her cunt was naughty, but not really so terrible.
    And now the naive young blonde figured that Valerie was merely going to
    make the dog come with her foot or, at most, with her hand. Even that tame
    prospect was a real turn-on. Cindy gazed at his throbbing cockhead,
    imagining what it would be like when his jism came squirting from his
    piss-hole in frothy jets. The sight and the prospect caused her pussy to
    overflow. A nugget of cunt juice slid out of the leg-hole of her brief
    shorts and gleamed on her creamy thigh, like a pearl on velvet.
    Then Valerie took her foot away. Giving Cindy a sideways glance, both
    amused and pleased by the young girl's fascination, Valerie patted the
    couch beside her.
    Buck was no novice at this game. He gave a happy, excited yelp and
    bounded up, one forepaw on either side of the woman's supple hips and his
    hind legs on the floor. His massive prick loomed out over the woman's cunt
    mound and belly. His haunches bunched with muscle, then humped, driving
    his cock against her stomach. A blob of spunk dripped from the cock-knob
    and ran into Valerie's belly button. The blob was still connected to his
    meaty cockhead by a gossamer thread of jism.
    Cindy squealed.
    "Yeah," Valerie said, reading the girl's mind accurately. "I'm really
    gonna let him fuck me, honey."
    She squirmed down and thrust her big tits up. The dog's bubbling
    cockhead slid against her nipple. Then he humped again, shoving his slimy
    fucker up into her cleavage, fucking her between the tits. His prick had
    left a slippery trail of slime up her stomach as the fiery red crown nudged
    into the soft crack of her cleavage.
    Cindy felt as if she were going to faint. Every nerve in her body was
    tingling.
    Valerie let the horny hound fuck her tits for a moment, then she reached
    down with both hands. She cupped his bloated balls in one hand and folded
    the other around the thick root of his prick.
    She levered his cock down, so that his prick-knob rustled in her curly
    cunt bush. Doggy-slime matted the ebony curls, glistening in that dark
    jungle. Squirming, Valerie slid upward and pulled the hound's cock down
    into her groin.
    Holding his prick by the hilt, the woman began to move the tip of his
    cock up and down in her steaming cunt slot, using his prick like a spoon to
    stir her cream bowl and rub against her clit.
    "Oooooh - he's so hot and hard," she murmured. "What a lovely cuntful
    he's got for me today."
    My God - the woman is totally depraved, Cindy thought. But she had to
    admit that that dog's prick looked wonderful. She just knew that she would
    be fantasizing about dog-cock the next time she frigged herself off - not
    that she would ever actually do such a sordid thing in reality. Fantasy
    was harmless, she knew.
    But this was no fantasy. That hard red dog-cock was sliding up and down
    through Valerie's pink cunt-lips and brushing over her clit as, tilting her
    wrist, she levered his cockmeat through her cunt slot. His seeping
    piss-hole was dribbling scum into Valerie's pussy slot so that, as her
    wrist moved, she seemed to be whitewashing her cunt with some big, meaty
    brush.
    Changing her grip, Valerie pulled the head of the doggy's prick up into
    her cunthole. She shifted her hips, getting into position. Then she took
    her hands away from his cock and balls. Now the clever hound needed no
    further manual assistance. Well trained and obedient, he knew just what to
    do.
    Buck nudged his loins out and all of his naked cock-knob vanished up
    Valerie's smoldering cunt slot. Her wet cuntlips fluttered and rippled as
    they collared his prick just behind the crown. Buck whined and pushed
    another inch of cockmeat into her, through that tight pink collar.
    Valerie arched her back, not moving herself, but waiting for the dog to
    bury his bone.
    The hound fucked in slowly, inch by inch. His long, thick cockshaft
    disappeared up her fuck-hole gradually until his fucker was buried to the
    balls, all of his prick inside her cunt. Then neither of them moved for a
    moment. The doggy was savoring the pleasure of having every inch of his
    cock enveloped in clinging pussy, and Valerie was thrilling to the
    sensation of having her hot cunt stuffed to the very brim with a load of
    iron-hard, throbbing doggy-prick.
    Valerie moved first, pumping her pelvis and fucking her cunt through an
    inch or two of dog-cock. She rolled her hips from side to side, winding
    her tight fuck-hole around on his thick cunt-stuffer like a juicy nut onto
    an iron bolt. Her pussy was squashing as her talented cunt muscles sucked
    on his cockmeat. The interior rings closed in concentric circles, running
    up his cockrod as if she were jerking him off with her pussy.
    Buck whimpered at the feeling. His whole hairy body was trembling and
    his tongue was lolling out, still dripping cunt juice along with his
    doggy-slobber. His long tail swished behind him as he prepared for the
    assault, like a rudder steering his loins.
    Then the dog went wild.
    His hindlegs scrabbled at the floor as he pulled his prick out until
    only the naked meat of his angry red cock-knob remained in her steaming
    pussy, then he fucked all of that long prickrod back into her. His
    cock-lance hissed up her soaking fuck-hole.
    "He's fucking you!" cried Cindy, in wonderment and awe. "The dog is
    fucking your cunt!"
    "You bet your sweet ass, honey - and I fucking love it!" Valerie gasped
    as she pumped her cunt down to meet the dog's next fuck-lunge. He fucked
    in to the balls, his swollen balls swinging in to slap on her ass like the
    clapper of some meaty bell.
    The hound's haunches rippled and quivered. He fucked faster and harder,
    berserk with the joy of it. His prick jerked out, coated with cunt cream,
    then rammed back up that smoldering pussy with a violence that rattled
    Valerie's bones. He was tilting her ass up as he stuffed her full of
    cockmeat.
    She writhed and thrashed about under the brute, meeting him in
    counterpoint, pushing her pussy down as he fucked in and rolling her hips
    as he drew out. Her cunt walls molded themselves around the contours of
    his throbbing prick, clinging and massaging every inch as it fucked in and
    out.
    Cunt juice sprayed from her pussy as that big dog-cock filled her
    fuck-hole and pumped the hot froth from her. His hairy balls were soaking
    with the overflow from her fuck-hole as they slapped against her upthrust
    ass with dull, meaty whacks.
    "Pour it to me, Buck," Valerie moaned, hips jerking. "Shovel that sweet
    prick up my cunt, boy!"
    The dog's spine twisted into an S-shape as he fucked in, his tail
    whirling like a propeller behind his heaving ass. Valerie whimpered as she
    felt his cock throb inside her, spreading the moist walls of her pliable
    cunt out as it swelled and expanded.
    Cindy watched that thick dog-cock vanish up Valerie's cunt, and her own
    cunt was so hot now that she was numb. The girl didn't know if she was
    coming or not, although the pussy juice was streaming down her thighs and
    soaking her shorts. Her hand was still cupped over her crotch, still not
    moving. Her pussy was so hot she thought it might blister her palm.
    If I frig myself off, then maybe I can resist her depraved suggestions
    afterwards, the girl thought. Maybe. But do I want to? Oh, I'm so damned
    horny! I won't do anything, myself - but if she wants to eat me out and I
    just lie back and close my eyes - oh, fucking hell! I wish I'd never come
    here with her. Like hell I do!
    Both innocent and horny, the poor girl was tormented by her own raging
    fuck-lust. Her passion ran amuck.
    Valerie was moaning each time the dog fucked her cunt full of rock-hard
    cockmeat. His cockhead felt like a lump of molten iron deep up her belly
    and his prickshaft was like a crowbar, levering and wedging and prying up
    her steaming, soaking fuck-hole.
    Her ass switched from side to side, then jerked up and down. She dipped
    her loins lower and every inch of his cockshaft ran across her clit, coming
    and going. Her taut clit was ready to go off like a stick of dynamite at
    any moment, but she was trying to hold back, to wait for the doggy to fill
    her cunt with his hot, thick jism before she let her own wild climax reach
    the crest.
    She clamped her thighs around the brute's heaving flanks, hooking her
    ankles behind his ass. Her thighs rippled as they tightened, drawing his
    cock into her pussy. Her heels brushed against his asshole as she held him
    in a velvet vise. Then, feeling his prick expand and knowing the doggy was
    almost ready to blow his cum-load, she threw her legs wide apart again,
    giving him freedom to maneuver as he wished.
    Buck poured the prick to her resolutely, shoveling the phallic fuel into
    her fiery furnace frantically and furiously. He howled like a wolf and his
    balls exploded.
    "He's coming!" Valerie wailed, as she felt his cockshaft buck with the
    rushing tide.
    The dog's cock slime hosed her cunthole in a creamy jet and Valerie let
    herself go. Her cunt melted around his prick like a wax candle around a
    flaming wick. The dog shot a second gooey wad of jism out on the recoil,
    so that the hot cum flooded up her fuck tunnel from the entrance to the
    depths, like an underground stream.
    Each time the dog squirted another shot of cum up her, Valerie cunt
    melted again. Her cunt cream gushed out to mingle with his jism. Again
    and again he unloaded his cock and balls, growling and panting. A great
    wash of dog-cum and cunt juice flowed down her crotch.
    There was a rushing in her ears. Through that internal rushing, Valerie
    could hear Cindy squealing with vicarious joy. She turned her head and,
    through lust-glazed eyes, through a mist as heavy as a cloud of cum, saw
    that the innocent teenager was leaning over them, close up, staring at all
    the juicy details of their simultaneous orgasms.
    "The dog is spurting his hot fuck juice up my cunt," Valerie gasped.
    "He's fucking filling me with slime!"
    But Cindy knew that already. She could see the stuff pour out as the
    dog's plunger plugged the hole. Pearly cunt juice gushed out, streaked
    with creamy dog-jism.
    Buck squirted another load of cum into Valerie, then began to falter and
    slow down, his balls drained. The last of his jizz came out in a mere
    trickle. His tail dropped - and his head drooped. Valerie continued to
    fuck her cunt up and down on his prick, to make sure that she had milked
    him bone dry and to make sure that she had worked off every wondrous wave
    of her own creamy coming.
    Whimpering, Buck pulled his prick out of her flooded pussy. His cock
    came out as it had gone in, inch by inch, the cockstalk dragging against
    the suction of her fuck-hole. Then the naked cock-knob popped out like a
    cork from a bottle of champagne. His prick swayed up and down, then it
    began to droop. The doggy hopped down to the floor, panting heavily. Cum
    and cunt juice dripped from the head of his shrinking cock, and a thicker
    flood poured out of Valerie's vacated fuck-hole.
    Valerie slid to the floor, curling on her hip. Pushing her head under
    the dog, she slurped his slimy cockhead into her mouth and nursed on it,
    sucking up dog-cum and cunt juice from his prickmeat. Her cheeks hollowed
    in and her lips peeled outward around his red cock.
    "Ummmm," she puffed.
    Cindy wailed, thrilled anew at the sight of Valerie with a mouthful of
    dripping dog-cock and realizing that the depraved woman had told the truth
    about that, too - that she really sucked her dogs off. That seemed even
    more wicked than fucking with them, somehow - and just as fucking exciting.
    Valerie gave the dog's prick a last loving slurp and drew her lips away.
    His cock-knob glistened with her saliva. Cum and cunt juice flecked her
    lips and her tongue slid across as she turned and looked at Cindy.
    Cindy stared at that sensual mouth. She looked at those pliable lips
    and that nimble tongue and she shuddered with desire.
    "You can suck my cunt, if you really want to, I guess," she whispered.
    "I - I don't really mind."
    And Valerie grinned at the understatement . . .

    ANIMAL ANTICS 013

    Chapter 4

    Amused by the girl's shy diffidence, Valerie was smiling - but the lips
    that smiled were creamy and trembling. She turned away from the dog who,
    his lust spent, wandered off to curl up in the corner. Valerie knelt
    before Cindy.
    "You sure you don't mind?" she asked, with mild sarcasm.
    But, not waiting for a reply, she leaned down and began to lick at the
    backs of the girl's knees. Valerie's tongue was lathering Cindy's flesh
    with dog-cum and saliva. She licked up and down those glorious legs. She
    kissed and tongued the girl's feet and worked up her calves, and her lips
    brushed up the inner slopes of her thighs. Cindy trembled, both with
    nervousness and, more, with desire.
    The woman, cunt hungry as she was, was in no hurry to feast on that
    sweet young pussy. Now that the end result was certain, Valerie was
    enjoying the foreplay. She licked up Cindy's legs as far as the leg-holes
    of the girl's denim shorts, where the material was sucked into the vee of
    her crotch as if her cunt were a cloth-attracting magnet. Pulling the
    leg-holes out with her fingers, she licked at the creases where Cindy's
    thighs joined her body, working on one side and then the other and, as she
    switched across, pausing to blow her warm breath onto the girl's crotch.
    As she did so, she saw the crotch of Cindy's shorts darken and grow even
    damper.
    Knowing what a tasty treat was smoldering there, right in front of her
    face, separated only by a slender band of denim, Valerie began to drool and
    her tongue tingled. She pushed her tongue out and ran it, flattened, up
    Cindy's crotch. She could feel the heat come through the denim and taste
    the cunt juice that had seeped into the material.
    She lapped at Cindy's crotch again, slurping moistly. She kissed the
    sodden denim, blowing through it and feeling the teenager's hot cunt ripple
    on the other side. She sucked at the seepage, then slipped her tongue up
    the leg-hole, flicking in and out at the crease, not actually making
    contact with Cindy's cunt.
    Was this how lesbians did it? naive Cindy wondered. Did they just mouth
    each other through their clothing?
    "Aren't you gonna take my shorts down?" she asked timidly.
    Valerie smiled at the question and at the hint of disappointment that
    could be discerned in the girl's tone. This seduction was going as well as
    Valerie had hoped it would. Cindy was truly innocent and inexperienced,
    but her sweet body was so naturally horny that Valerie felt certain the
    girl would be ready for anything by the time the weekend was over, and
    there were so many things to teach her.
    "Yes, darling - I'm going to take your shorts down," Valerie whispered.
    "I'm going to tongue-fuck your naked cunt and suck your sweet cunt juice
    out of you."
    Cindy trembled, eyelashes fluttering.
    Valerie's thighs tensed as she leaned higher. She began to lick the
    girl's belly. Her tongue probed Cindy's belly button and slid on up,
    licking at her fat tits again. Valerie was spit-bathing the teenager's
    trim body. She laved the hollow of her throat, licked her neck, dipped in
    to tongue her armpit.
    Cindy was vibrant, moaning softly as she sprawled there, feeling as if
    Valerie was using her as a mere plaything - and simply adoring to be played
    with.
    Valerie kissed and licked back down to Cindy's belly. She hooked her
    fingers under the waistband of the girl's shorts and, without opening the
    fly, pulled them lower. The upper curls of Cindy's blonde pussy hair
    appeared as the shorts were dragged down. Valerie ran her tongue through
    that golden forest.
    "Shall I take your shorts down now?" she asked teasingly.
    "If - if you want to - I guess it's okay," the shy girl said, trying not
    to reveal her burning desire.
    "Do you want me to?"
    "I guess so."
    "Ask me, then," Valerie demanded, running her tongue, rustling, through
    the golden filigree of Cindy's cunt bush.
    "I - I said - you could," Cindy whimpered.
    "Ask me! Say please! Tell me what you want!" Valerie rasped. Her
    green eyes flashed. Cindy whimpered, feeling as if she were a dog being
    made to beg for a bone. She hesitated. How could she voice her desires?
    Letting the woman eat her pussy was one thing being passive, allowing it,
    pretending that she was only doing it to please the older woman didn't seem
    so shameful. But to be made to plead for what they both wanted was
    mortifying. She stared down at Valerie, pleading with her eyes,
    wordlessly. But she saw the determination on Valerie's face and realized
    that, no matter how much the woman lusted for her naked cunt, she was not
    going to do it unless and until Cindy made that compromise. Cindy gulped.
    Then, surprising herself, the words seeming to come out without any
    instructions from her mind, she said: "Take my shorts down. Use your mouth
    on my naked cunt. Oooh, Valerie, please suck me off!"
    She blushed and Valerie smiled triumphantly.
    The dark-haired beauty unsnapped the waistband and slowly drew the
    zipper down. The shorts wedged open and Valerie's tongue slurped at
    Cindy's plump cunt mound. Then she began to tug the shorts down over
    Cindy's ass and hips. Cindy squirmed, helping her. The sodden shorts
    dragged down and the teenager's pussy was bared to Valerie's gaze. Valerie
    purred at the sight. Cindy's cunt was rosy-lipped and unfolded, the slot
    awash with creamy lather and her clit taut and trembling.
    Valerie drew the shorts down and off Cindy's feet. She spread the
    girl's sleek thighs apart, her head moving between them. She blew on
    Cindy's pussy and, as if that creamy slot were a glowing ember, saw the
    flames of lust leap higher as Cindy's clit and cunt-lips flushed. The
    folds rippled and cunt juice slid down the gash of her pussy.
    Valerie gazed up at the girl's face and raised her eyebrows. Cindy knew
    what the woman wanted and, no longer in any condition to hesitate, said:
    "Suck my pussy, Valerie! Make me cream with your tongue!"
    Valerie gave a contented sigh and leaned closer, her tongue pushing out.
    She tapped the tip against Cindy's clit. The girl seemed to explode at the
    first light touch, her whole lithe body jerking violently. Her slim back
    arched and her long legs trembled.
    Valerie concentrated on Cindy's clit to begin with, using only her
    tongue at first. She flicked and fluttered and laved that swollen nugget
    of sensation. Slippery with cunt juice, the stiff clit slid against her
    tongue and Cindy began to moan continuously. Valerie realized that the
    girl was going to cream soon - too soon. Valerie had gotten her so hot
    that there was no way her climax could be prolonged for any length of time
    - her first climax, anyway. But there would be more, longer and lingering
    and leisurely, giving Valerie a chance to dine to her heart's content on
    that succulent pussy before she was rewarded by the girl's coming.
    Still, she wanted to make the first delicious meal last as long as she
    could and she knew that if she kept licking the girl's clit she would soon
    have her melting. Valerie gave that bud a last flick and drew back
    slightly. She spread Cindy's rosy cunt-lips wide open. Cindy was jerking
    impatiently, wanting that nimble tongue to return to her pussy. Valerie
    slowly ran her hot tongue up the girl's creamy cunt slot. Cunt juice
    pooled in the center of her curled tongue. She lapped up the hot gash and,
    turning her face from side to side, licked up the unfurled pussy-lips.
    Then she fucked her stiff tongue right up into Cindy's cunthole,
    tongue-fucking in and out with a rapid, fluttering motion. Her tongue
    slithered up that soaking tunnel like an eel in a morass.
    Cindy began to moan and twitch again, rising toward the heights on that
    steady tongue-fucking action - and again Valerie prolonged the girl's
    coming by altering her technique. Tilting her head sideways, she fitted
    her parted lips to Cindy's cunt-lips and, not using her tongue now, began
    to suck steadily on the flowing cunt slot.
    Cunt juice slid past her lips and into her mouth, and Valerie gulped the
    sweet nectar down hungrily as she sucked for more. Cindy's smooth thighs
    closed around Valerie's head, as if trapping her in a sleek vise. But the
    trap was unnecessary. Cunt-hungry Valerie was exactly where she wanted to
    be. Her face was radiant with desire and her tongue felt every bit as hot
    as the clit it had been licking.
    Cindy was grinding her foaming pussy against Valerie's eager mouth,
    jolting her hips up and down and pumping her belly. She jerked
    spasmodically, panting and moaning with the joy of it.
    "God - I'm gonna come!" the girl wailed.
    Seeing there was no way to prolong it and yearning for the innocent
    teenager to cream in her mouth, Valerie whimpered: "Yeah - come, baby -
    come for me - cream my fucking tongue!"
    She began using her mouth and tongue and lips together now, as Cindy
    soared toward the dizzy heights. The woman opened her mouth wide and
    clamped her lips over Cindy's cunthole and clit, mouthing all of that sweet
    pussy. Her tongue slid across Cindy's clit as it ran in and out of her
    steaming fuck-hole. Tonguing and sucking together, Valerie was bringing
    the blonde teenager surging to the bliss of a climax.
    "Come - come - come - " she panted.
    Valerie's raven hair cascaded over Cindy's golden cunt bush and fell in
    a curtain over her thighs. The woman's mouth was clamped to Cindy's
    smoldering cunt like a suction cup to a drain - and that suction was soon
    going to unclog that hairy drain. She wallowed in that delicious groin,
    her head turning as she twisted her lips around, her tongue fucking in and
    out with a steady rhythm.
    Valerie's hands cupped Cindy under the cheeks of her firm ass, tilting
    her higher, as if her cunt were a creamy goblet which thirsty Valerie
    wanted to drain to the dregs. Cindy's pelvis bucked and heaved as she
    fucked herself on Valerie's tongue and ground her pussy against those
    skillfully sucking lips. She arched deeply, her spine contorting as the
    wild thrill whacked her whole nubile body with a torment of bliss.
    "I'm creaming!" Cindy cried.
    "Ummm - ummmm - ummm!" Valerie whimpered as her mouth filled up with hot
    cum-cream.
    She sucked and swallowed. Foaming pussy juice bubbled past her lips and
    soaked her flashing tongue. Valerie gurgled with the joy of it, feeling as
    if she were having an oral orgasm.
    "Ahhhh," Cindy moaned as the fiery waves of her creaming rushed through
    her loins and her steaming cunt melted. She shook with the spasms of
    release and shuddered with each wave of ecstasy.
    Drained, the girl sank back on the couch, panting and trembling, stunned
    by her dynamic orgasm.
    Valerie continued to mouth her cunt, to make sure that she had worked
    off every spasm and milked out every sweet drop. Spreading Cindy's
    cunt-lips wide apart, she slid her tongue in to sweep up the slippery oil
    that coated her cunt walls. She gave the girl's clit a slurp, milking
    frothy juice from the hot nugget. Then she dipped down and ran her tongue
    up the taut crack of Cindy's ass, lapping up the cunt juice that had poured
    down into that tight crevice. A trickle of pussy cream had escaped her
    lips and run down Cindy's thigh. Valerie tongued it up, wanting to swallow
    every drop of that succulent coming.
    She raised her head and gazed lovingly at Cindy.
    "Nice?" she asked.
    "Oh, God - I never knew - with another woman - " Cindy whispered. She
    stared back at Valerie.
    The woman's face was lathered with cunt juice from forehead to chin.
    Cindy was wondering if now she was expected to return the favor. Did
    Valerie expect to be sucked off in turn? Cindy had no idea - nor did she
    know if she was willing to suck Valerie's pussy. It was more than obvious
    that Valerie had deeply enjoyed eating Cindy's pussy, but would Cindy savor
    the feast as much? She blushed as she considered it. Despite her
    inhibitions, the innocent girl had to admit that the prospect of sucking
    Valerie's cunt - a thing she would never have dreamed of a day ago - was
    exciting. She didn't even realize that her tongue was running across her
    lips.
    "I - I - do you want me to - " She seemed unwilling to make the
    suggestion, herself. But she was hoping that Valerie would.
    "You don't have to do anything, my darling," Valerie whispered -
    although she knew that cunt-sucking, by its very nature, usually turned out
    to be a reciprocal affair. They had the whole weekend and Valerie saw no
    reason to rush things. "Just stay where you are - with your legs apart,
    Cindy. You creamed too soon, the first time. Let me give you a nice long
    suck and then you can feed me again."
    Cindy whimpered with expectation, knowing how wonderful it would be to
    lie there while the woman mouthed her pussy for ages.
    Valerie leaned in and licked very gently at Cindy's clit, beginning a
    new arousal.
    But then there was a scratching at the door . . .

    --
    If you love something, set it free
    If it doesn't come back, hunt it down and kill it

  19. Get there Quickly and Listen to John Peel by szyzyg · · Score: 4, Informative

    He plays the most eclecytic music of any DJ in the world - if this were the only good thing the BBC did then the BBC would be a great organisation.....

    He's on Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday every week from 10-12 gmt.

    I've been listening to the vorbis stream for a while now - we were never quite sure whether wewanted teh server slashdotted or not - I guess christmas day will be quieter than usual. But I think the resources available are a lot more limited than the real or wimpy machines.

    Oh yeah - make sure to e-mail the people in charge about how you prefer this over Real (and even moreso over WMP)

    1. Re:Get there Quickly and Listen to John Peel by Publicus · · Score: 1

      I didn't even think of the /. effect. I'm listening to it now - well after the story was posted - and it sounds great.

      After never taking the time to set up streaming media on may machine I'm totally revved right now to be listening to the BBC on Linux, I suppose it's been possible for some time with Real Audio, but who likes Real Audio, really?

      --

      My Karma was at 49, then they switched to words. All that work for nothing!

  20. Sounds great, installs in seconds! by BigBir3d · · Score: 1

    the machine i am at right now is a win2k run Dell laptop. installed the plugin for winamp, which took about 0.5 seconds, and off i went.

    worked great. sounded better than Real, and was much quicker to load.

    this is just too cool... makes me think I am glad for not putting all my cd's to mp3 ;-)

    1. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by agentZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, you're right, Ogg Vorbis streaming is cool, but unfortunately it won't work for the BBC in the long run, for reasons you've put in your post.

      The problem is that you had to install something to your base system in order to listen to the stream. There are millions (yes, millions) of users who don't want to have to install anything else, they just want things to work straight of the box. These are exactly the sort of people BBC doesn't want calling their tech support. Any costs saved by avoiding Microsoft license fees get eaten up by the phone calls and e-mails that these people will send to the BBC asking "how the heck do I install this silly plugin thing?"

      Microsoft isn't about to give up their licensing fee revenue stream without a fight, and so they're not going to include the Ogg Vorbis codec in the Media Player anytime soon.

      The BBC is a business. They don't care anything about "free" software versus things they have to pay for. The question is, which costs more: Providing tech support to people so that they can view their content, or writing one simple check to Microsoft. Unfortunately, the business solution is to just pay Microsoft, it's probably cheaper.

      Sad, but true.

    2. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by uchian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is this really any different from websites having "Needs Real Player to play" or "Needs Microsoft Media Player to play" (download here) links that nigh on every website with streaming media already has on it?

      IMHO, one of two things will happen if/(or more likely when) Ogg Vorbis becomes a widely used format - either a particular media player will be picked as the Ogg vorbis 'Champion' - possibly the new version of Winamp which I believe will include the ogg vorbis plugin by default, or a nice download page which let's you choose your operating system, media player and click download to get an executable that will install it.

      People have been blindly installing plugins for years now - I don't think that they are particularly likely to stop just because a plugin is opensource.

      ...and you only have to download it once, anyway.

    3. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by SurfsUp · · Score: 2

      Well, you're right, Ogg Vorbis streaming is cool, but unfortunately it won't work for the BBC in the long run, for reasons you've put in your post.
      The problem is that you had to install something to your base system in order to listen to the stream. There are millions (yes, millions) of users who don't want to have to install anything else, they just want things to work straight of the box. These are exactly the sort of people BBC doesn't want calling their tech support. Any costs saved by avoiding Microsoft license fees get eaten up by the phone calls and e-mails that these people will send to the BBC asking "how the heck do I install this silly plugin thing?"
      Microsoft isn't about to give up their licensing fee revenue stream without a fight, and so they're not going to include the Ogg Vorbis codec in the Media Player anytime soon.


      Hmm, good point, it is for this reason that we should all trundle over here and figure out how to submit our public comments on the Microsoft settlement, under the Tunney act. It would be just plain anticompetitive for Microsoft to freeze out the Ogg codec, wouldn't it? Now that you made me think about it, Microsoft will be far from in the clear on this, even after the Tunney comment period.

      The BBC is a business. They don't care anything about "free" software versus things they have to pay for.

      Once again, good point. The BBC is of course a business, and has to worry about the potential cost of encoding the stream for broadcasting. Hence the attraction of Ogg. Even if Microsoft doesn't charge BBC a fee right now for encoding WMF, they're certain to slap one on if they get control of the market. BBC isn't dumb enough to miss this little point. Then there's the problem of customers potentially being charged by Microsoft to listen to the streams, or being restricted by end user licenses in how they can listen to them, which could limit or erode BBC's market. Yes indeed, BBC has some very good reasons for looking hard at Ogg.

      The question is, which costs more: Providing tech support to people so that they can view their content, or writing one simple check to Microsoft. Unfortunately, the business solution is to just pay Microsoft, it's probably cheaper.

      Paying Microsoft is never cheaper in the end, not if you want to stay competitive.

      --
      Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
    4. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by Annamite · · Score: 1

      MP3 format was not supported by M$ or any other OSes at the time. People just like them cuz of the conviniences and the superior compression it has over other formats (at the time).

      Since the original Winmap is only around 700KB, people can download it, and install it in less than the time it takes to download a single song. Be hold, millions of people have been downloaded and use it without any support whatsoever from the OSes' vendors.

      Built a great software that encodes/decodes the format, make it easy to use to the masses and people will use them.

      Soon when you see the high percentage of people begin to encode their musics/ sound clips in OGG, then you will know it is getting there. For now, any support is great. But do not give me some source code that I have to compile and debug to make it work. (*I* as any JohnDoe Average).

      Hear me?

      MCVT

    5. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do think a stupid unpronouncable name like Ogg Vorbis is a big hinderance to acceptance.

      Yeah I just installed an Egg Vibrates player on my computer...

      Yeah, I just installed a player for the O-G-G Vorbic

      Etc etc. MP3, Winamp, very simple. You hurt word of mouth when people are hesistant about how to even pronounce something.

    6. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Winamp 3.0 will include OGG by default.

    7. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Winamp 2.7x already does include Ogg Vorbis by default. I forget the exact version when they started to include it though.

    8. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ...Even if Microsoft doesn't charge BBC a fee right now for encoding WMF...

      Encoding windows vector images?

    9. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by pmc · · Score: 2

      The BBC is of course a business

      Not exactly. The BBC is a weird hybrid between a business and a public service. They are of course interested in cost, but profit is not a primary driver (go to the BBC web site and count the ads - there are exactly none).

      My wife and a few of my friends work for the BBC (all in IT, but different departments) so here's my informed take on the situation. There is no Ubermind supporting anything software wise at the BBC. They pick the best available tool for the job, especially in the public facing side. They needed streaming media - Real was the choice at the time. Now, after a few years, they are reviewing that choice, and looking at the alternatives. So don't read too much into it.

      What is good is that they are neutral - for a lot of applications they have assessed the best tool to be open source or free software. Some of the software that runs the digital TV interactive services runs on Linux of some variety (some is also NT). Their main website (IIRC) runs on Apache.

      So, if you get to the stage that the neutral BBC takes a long, deep look at the software then you can a least be comfortable with the knowledge that it's a contender.

    10. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by EllisDees · · Score: 1
      The problem is that you had to install something to your base system in order to listen to the stream. There are millions (yes, millions) of users who don't want to have to install anything else, they just want things to work straight of the box.

      Strange that users haven't had such a difficult time for the past 10 years with installing things on their PCs. *Everyone* who has been online for more than a week knows how to download and install something. I don't see why people are suddenly making a big deal out of doing something routine.
      --
      -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
    11. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm... so you got it to work. I still haven't, and I feel foolish. I have the plugin and can play ogg files locally on Winamp, and I also have no trouble playing live mp3 streams, so my proxy settins are fine (just left default because I'm behind no firewalls). Still, in both Winamp and WMP it tells me it's connecting and gets stuck. You don't need to tell me I'm dumb (but you can if it makes you feel better). What I'd really appreciate, though, is an idea about what I might be doing wrong.

    12. Re:Sounds great, installs in seconds! by dgrb · · Score: 1

      The BBC is a business Actually it isn't. Their charter says nothing about making a profit and they are funded largely by the license fee. (Although they have expaned into marketing a good deal recently, they are still advert-free) Which is not to say that they don't care about costs and saving money. But please, one of the reasons the BBC is different from most broadcasting organisations (especially N American ones) is that they are not a business.

  21. ogg popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    "The seasons passed. My body grew into the fullness of manhood.
    Time after time I triumphed in the wrestling competitions, siring four
    strong sons."

    Within the trellised vineyards, Noble Warrior Kare'enyi Na'aklyi
    continued his narration.

    "During the harvest season men elected me to lead a crew of
    scythers. After we thrashed and baled the crops, recruiters from Masa'att
    Academy descended on the Mona Maternesse. Never before had our boys
    beheld Hermanutas. Their smooth skinned beauty puzzled lads accustomed to
    our husky, rough hewn men.

    "Lieutenant Commander Antemodes Ahrkantepodes addressed the
    assembly. I feared my heart would choke my throat. The broad shouldered,
    wide chested officer's confidence overwhelmed me. His square jawed
    self-assurance drew the breath out of my lungs. His wide spread stance
    bespoke a potent manliness that I dared only fantasize.

    "The Hermanuta towered over any farmer on Mona Maternesse.
    Iridescent golden red hair spilled down his back. A thick red golden
    beard rested upon his barrel chest, and his mustaches turned upward in
    fearsome prongs.

    "Antemodes Ahrkantepodes orated in a deep, baritone voice. Blood
    pounding in my head befuddled the sense of his words. Snippets and
    snatches pierced my understanding as I gaped in wonder at the straight
    backed officer so sumptuously filling his midnight blue uniform.

    "'A lifetime mission dedicated to the highest service . . . .
    testing your courage and endurance, pressing your strength and
    perseverance to the utmost levels . . . . acknowledging inner reserves of
    fortitude . . . . confronting challenges, innovating successful strategies
    . . . . striving always to surpass your personal best . . . . pursuing
    ever bolder goals with ever braver plans . . . . and always serving,
    serving, serving, serving . . . . '

    "My head spun as I heard those words. Yes, I would serve
    Lieutenant Commander Antemodes Ahrkantepodes. I would prostrate myself
    before the cockmeat bulging from his snug fit uniform. I would succeed in
    every quest. I would serve as equerry to Lieutenant Commander Antemodes
    Ahrkantepodes, swelling his heart with pride for his brave, strong
    fuckboy.

    "And this bold officer would plough me with his hard, thick
    manmeat, plough me, fill me, fuck me, ram his cockshaft up my road to
    glory till he seared my prostate, flooding me with his steaming manseed
    while my glory hole exploded as I swooned into the black hole of the
    altiverse bursting with the Lieutenant Commander's hot manfuck."

    Duke the astronomer and Marine Private Vinnie Borsa wrapped their
    arms about each other. United States Marine Corps Master Sergeant
    Schnuffler stroked his drooling cock beneath his paisley sun dress.

    The Noble Warrior Kare'enyi Na'aklyi's narrative continued.

    "Masa'att recruiters examined the Mona Maternesse farm boys. We
    knew no maiden modesty, and paid no mind to hands that measured, weighed,
    pinched, poked, and probed our naked flesh.

    "Out of 180 boys examined, recruiting sergeants marched 70 chosen
    ones to a woodshed which they constructed just beyond the planting fields.
    We waited, standing naked, on the grassy knoll outside the shack, while
    the recruiters called the boys, one at a time, inside. Screams, shrieks,
    and sobbing sounded from within. A dozen farm boys slipped away before
    the Hermanutas mispronounced their names. But I stood firm, knowing that
    I could surmount any harsh ordeal, proving my worthiness to serve
    Lieutenant Commander Antemodes Ahrkantepodes.

    "At last a sergeant bawled my name and pointed to a heavy canvas
    curtain. I entered a windowless, white walled cubicle. Four Hermanutas
    wearing long white smocks held clipboards by their sides.

    "Two recruiters hoisted me on a metal platform suspended by
    crossbars from the ceiling. Markers indicated where I must place my feet.
    The sergeants pointed upward and I saw markers on the ceiling for my
    hands. Without the men speaking a word, I knew I must not move my hands
    or feet off these markers.

    "After I balanced myself comfortably, the Hermanutas shaved my
    pectorals, then swabbed my chest with cold, stinging astringents. The
    foreigners screwed sharp clawed metal clamps to my nipples, threading a
    silver chain between each vise, pulling it taut and hanging metal weights
    along the tether's length. Pain burned fiercely. I gnashed my teeth,
    but did not sob aloud.

    "Before I understood the purpose of their tools, the recruiters
    inserted a long rubber hose into my glory hole, irrigating the insides of
    my butt with freezing cold water. Never had any man on Mona Maternesse
    been so rudely douched. But through the gross humiliation I stood firm
    and did not cry or flinch.

    "After the Hermanutas purged my guts, they shaved my asscrack,
    butt, and ballsack with a sharp straight razor. The sergeants slathered
    up my shaven slit and glory hole with slimy jelly squeezed from a white
    tube.

    "The strangers unwrapped a thick piece of black Zharquoya wood
    carved like a cock, but ribbed along its lengthy shaft. I gasped and
    clenched my butt. The sergeants spread my shaven asscheeks wide, sliding
    the artificial manmeat deep within my road to glory. I yearned for
    Lieutenant Commander Antemodes Ahrkantepodes' massive tool to occupy my
    hole. Whatever shame I must endure to gain that goal, I would not shirk
    the test.

    "One Hermanuta turned the wooden shaft within my butt as if it
    were a winch. Another sergeant flicked my armpits with Aquilla plumes. A
    third Masa'att recruiter stroked my shaven ballsack with a soft suede
    glove. The fourth alien tugged the weights suspended from the silver
    chain linking the sharp clawed tit clamps.

    "Never had any man on Mona Maternesse been so publicly mortified
    by smooth skinned strangers from another galaxy. I shut my eyes as the
    room gyred about. I longed to serve as equerry to Antemodes
    Ahrkantepodes. I longed to prove my worth to honor his enormous cockshaft
    with my lips and tongue.

    "Pain seared my nipples. My body quivered from the torments to my
    prostate, balls, and armpits. My purple cockmeat throbbed, threatening to
    explode before these foreigners from 'civilized' galaxies.

    "Shame! Torment! Pain! Humiliation!

    "A simple farm boy from the Mona Maternesse, my body quivered,
    trembled, shook with spasms. But hands and feet not move from their
    markers for fear of never serving Antemodes Ahrkantepodes . . . .

    "The wooden cockshaft screwed my butt hole.

    "Aquilla feathers tickled tortured both my armpits.

    "Metal clamps chewed my nipples.

    "Soft suede gloves stroked my shaven ballsack.

    ". . . my nipples burned, my head spun, my legs quaked, my
    prostate pulsed, my cockmeat shot and shot and shot and shot geysers of
    thick hot joy juice splattering the doctors' clean white smocks till I
    tumbled into an exhausted sleep dreaming of Lieutenant Commander Antemodes
    Ahrkantepodes."

  22. But they are also testing Windows Media format by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    They are not testing it on the radio1/2/3/4/5 - World Service streaming links as they are with media format!

  23. Yeah, Ditch Real.Com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Any thing that will stop the BBC from using an encoder from those bastards at Real.Com has got
    to be good.

    Real sucks ass.

    - Penguin Kicka

  24. So many uses for Duct Tape? Merry Christmas. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I hate Christmas.

    Monday, December 24, 2001; 2:58 PM

    IRVINE, Calif. -- A college sophomore is accused of sexually assaulting a 15-year-old girl he met on the Internet and carving swastikas on her face, police said.

    Brian Dance, 20, a student at the University of California, Irvine, was booked on charges of torture, rape by a foreign object and robbery. He was being held at the Orange County Jail in lieu of $250,000 bail.

    Dance allegedly met the girl in an online chat room and picked her up Thursday afternoon at an Orange County mall. Police said he took her to a university parking lot, forced her into the back seat of his car, covered her eyes with duct tape and beat her for more than two hours with his hands and a belt.

    The girl was sexually assaulted, robbed and had swastikas carved into her cheek and forehead with a knife, police said. She was treated and released early Friday from a nearby hospital, Sgt. Tom Little said.

    The girl told police a female friend also was communicating with the suspect in an online chat room, Little said. A detective had the victim's friend act as a decoy and arrange a meeting with the suspect at the same mall.

    The 15-year-old identified Dance as her attacker when he arrived, and he was arrested without incident, authorities said. Police said they found duct tape in his pocket and a knife they believed was used in the attack.

    Dance is scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday.

    © 2001 The Associated Press

  25. Made in the UK by leastsquares · · Score: 3, Funny

    The great thing about my beloved BBC is that they aren't scared to experiment. They had a fully functional website long before most American broadcasters knew what the web was.

    Unfortunately somethings don't change, and BBC America is showing the Queen's Christmas speech in 5 minutes. Arrgh, run, hide.

    1. Re:Made in the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You still have Kings and Queens? How backward and stupid.

      I guess someone has to get rich from that TV tax, other than the people driving the spy vans to detect the IF eminations on your contraband TV.

    2. Re:Made in the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... and we all know elections work really well!

      Besides, the Queen has no power.

  26. Just use it! by CatherineCornelius · · Score: 3, Informative
    users should email the BBC and show support

    Even more important, users should download XMMS, which supports Vorbis on UNIX or FreeAMP which supports Ogg Vorbis on UNIX and Windows via a plugin.

    Then (and this is the most important bit) go to BBC and use it to stream content.

  27. simulcasting already here! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I recently answered a certain ad that ran in a local newspaper. The ad
    said..."John Holmes Look-a-like seeks slave". I responded to the ad by
    phoning the certain gentleman who ran the ad. He told me to proceed to a
    certain apt building in a very upscale area. When I arrived, he answered the
    door wearing only blue jeans. He was approximately 40 years old & in
    excellent shape. After exchanging a few words, he proceeded to ask me if I'd
    like to smoke a joint, I proceeded to say yes and we proceeded to smoke a
    very potent joint that contained opium-streaked hashish. From that point on
    he took control. We proceeded to go down the hall to a room that he had
    "prepared". The room contained nothing but a light bulb and a chair. Next,
    he proceeded to order me to remove ALL of my clothes, I proceeded to obey
    him and undressed, he took my clothes and proceeded to lock them in an
    adjoining room and returned. So there I was...stoned and stark naked in a
    strange gentleman's apartment! He returned to the room, closed the door, and
    proceeded to lock it. He stood in front of me and proceeded to peel off
    his jeans, underneath he wore a jockstrap with the most humongous bulge that
    I had ever seen! And then he sat in the chair, spread his legs in the air,
    and then proceeded to order me to kneel between there. I was breath-less
    with arousal and fear; his penis-meat was so huge and so near. And then I
    proceeded to obey his commands.. Very slowly he pulled the jockstrap aside
    revealing the biggest penis-meat I had ever seen in my entire life! He had
    absolutely NO pubic hair at all, and to my amazement and delight he was
    circumstized! From under the chair he proceeded to pull a jar of grease and
    a measuring tape...he ordered me to thoroughly grease his massive schlong
    until it was fully erect and glistening. I couldn't believe my eyes...his
    penis-meat was freakishly enormous! He asked me in a husky powerful voice to
    measure his circumstized penis- meat...I proceeded to obey him without
    question and to my absolute amazement his giant schlong measured 20 greasy
    inches. I was dumb-founded and felt very honored to be in the presence of
    such a sexy, powerful and obviously superior homosexual gentleman. Plus the
    hash didn't hurt either.
    Then for the next 8 hours I proceeded to massage his giant penis-meat. He
    told me how good he felt, how much better he was as compared to me, how
    superior he was because of his huge glans, how he wanted to show me his
    circumstized homosexual world, how honored I should be to be with a huge
    white cock god like him etc. etc. When he orgasmed, he proceeded to fill up
    a 500ml yogurt container with his manload. On that first day he proceeded to
    dump his load at least 10 times. I continued seeing him once a week-always
    on Sundays, the ritual would always be the same...smoke hash... do these
    intense sexual psycho healings and then jerk him firmly, tenderly,
    ministering to his giant penis-schlong for 8 to 10 hours, with the same
    fixation for measuring to do with his massive penis-cockmeat, his dump,
    EVERYTHING. Until the day came when he told me that he belonged to a sex
    club.
    Part 2:
    This particular club is located in Buffalo N.Y. in an extremely wealthy
    couple's exclusive mansion. In order to be a member of this club you must be
    a white male, with a penis-meat that measures no less than 14 inches, you
    must be circumstized and keep all your pubic hair removed. Electrolysis is
    the preferred method since it is permanent and shows a high level of
    commitment to this superior lifestyle, however shaving is permitted and in
    the case of visitors, demanded. He told me that he was a member of a sex
    club, and told me they are known as "THE HUNG JURY", and that basically they
    get together and jerk each other's big pink slick dink giant massive schlong
    cockmeat things!!! I begged to go but he held out for a few weeks letting my
    imagination go wild with visions of more super huge gentlemen with giant
    penis-meat and very large circumstized glans. Finally one Sunday after I
    arrived he proceeded to tell me that we were going on a trip over night to
    the States. I knew that this was his "homosexual code" for saying "Tonight
    you will meet some truly incredible gentlemen. These men are in a class by
    themselves, they do what they want to whoever they want, whenever they want
    to." We arrived in Buffalo at dusk and he promptly blindfolded me so I
    wouldn't know where we were going. We drove for some time until he led me
    from the car. I instantly surmised that were in a large mansion, everything
    sounded so.rich and sexy. The blindfold was removed and I saw that I was in
    fact in the company of about 20 men and women. The women were all in their
    late 30's and early 40's, all extremely attractive and seemingly had no
    interest in any of the men. I proceeded down stairs into the finished
    basement where all the queers were. I could smell raw penis-meat in the air,
    most of the men were naked or close to it, many were wearing jock straps,
    all were exposing themselves without shame, and I could see why. All these
    men had gynormous schlong penis -meat, all of them had all their pubic hairs
    removed, and all of them were circummed!!! I proceeded to remove all of my
    clothing, which was promptly locked away. Next I was given a large mug
    filled with opium laced "tea". I drank the tea down quickly, and was given a
    refill to sip on at my leisure. The air was thick with sexual tension, as if
    some incredible psychodrama was about to unfold. The ghost of John Holmes
    was alive and well. I'll tell ya that part of the ecstasy was watching these
    guys with their 26 inches schlongs and beating off.

  28. Entirely subjective, but - Oh wow! by Snowfox · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I'm used to voices being really "warbly" when streaming at low bandwidths. Ogg Vorbis is really holding up on BBC-4. I'm quite impressed.

    The low-bandwith music on BBC-1 is still pretty bad, but about as good as anything else I've heard. It's stellar on the high bandwidth BBC-1 stream, however. It's heavy on the treble, where I'm used to having to boost that range.

    I'm having a little trouble EQing to correct for the high treble. It seems to have a huge upward curve on the high end where other CODECs just chop or only represent simple harmonic overtones. That makes it a little harsh on some things, but it's nicer than the sensation of listening underwater or through a tube that Real & MS give.

    1. Re:Entirely subjective, but - Oh wow! by szyzyg · · Score: 2

      The music is john peel - some of it is pretty warped and warbly before the encoder gets to it

    2. Re:Entirely subjective, but - Oh wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah the R1 stream sounds pretty poor compared to the 128k MP2 stream through DAB, that used to be at 192kbps and it kicked ass!

    3. Re:Entirely subjective, but - Oh wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would that be BBC Radio 1 and BBC Radio 4? BBC 1 is a TV station, BBC 4 is the name for a new station they are about to launch.

    4. Re:Entirely subjective, but - Oh wow! by Snowfox · · Score: 1
      Would that be BBC Radio 1 and BBC Radio 4? BBC 1 is a TV station, BBC 4 is the name for a new station they are about to launch.

      Yeppers - BBC Radio 1 and BBC Radio 4.

  29. better to feel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I entered the room, as arranged she was already on the bed.

    The bed was in the middle of the room and had straps at all corners, and two on
    each side, allowing several positions.

    Her head was through the headboard, which had be specially designed for this,
    and this allowed access though the mouth and into the throat. Her head was held
    in this position by means of her pigtails being tied to the base of the bed.

    Her arms were tied to the corners at the head of the bed, her legs had been
    folded back over the body, and tied to the headboard. She was completely
    naked, just as I requested.

    She heard me enter the room and close the door, locking it as I did, I could
    hear her sobs,

    "Please help me, Oh please help me." I approached her inverted head, all she
    could see was the fork of my trousers,

    "Now why would I do that? you're here for me to use, not help." Her sobs
    increased, I patted her cheek, "Now don't worry little one, I'm going to use
    you, not kill you, I'm not allowed to do that." I started to undress, I hadn't
    bothered with underwear, so I was quickly as naked as she was.

    I walked around the bed, her arms didn't reach the corners, so her wrist-straps
    were attached to ropes, which were then pulled tight. I rubbed her arm from
    the wrist to the arm-pit, I could feel the muscles straining to keep
    comfortable.

    I climbed onto the bed, she was fully exposed, between her legs I could see the
    chest, with it developing nubs, not yet a handful, the quim was smooth, and the
    pucker of the anus was pink and clean.

    "How old are you little one?" she didn't answer me, so I smacked her on the
    pussy. She jumped, and then replied.

    "I'm twelve." I left my hand on her pussy and started to rub it.

    "Shit, I wanted a virgin, how many men have you had up here." And I started to
    push a finger into the slit, just to show her where I meant.

    "None, no-ones ever touched me there, honest" Yes, I found it, the cherry, it
    was still intact, I removed my finger and then started on the ass, as I poked
    the sphincter she started to shout.

    "Oh no, don't, please don't, I've told you the truth, no-one!" I laughed and
    said

    "Oh I believe you, but what about this hole, how many have forced themselves up
    here." And my finger managed to enter her.

    "Noooo... no-one's ever touched me there, please take it out, Pleeeaasee." I
    removed my finger, got off the bed and returned to the headboard, I placed my
    finger to her mouth.

    "Now suck this off and make it clean, oh by the way, don't even think about
    biting me, you won't like the results."

    "As she tasted my finger, her tongue tried to force me out of her, and her
    mouth started to close, I could feel the teeth as I removed my finger.

    "Naughty! And naughty little girls should be taught a lesson." I walked to a
    trolley, on which were several toys for my use, among them was a ping-pong bat,
    I picked it up and returned to the girl. I held the bat down so that she could
    see it.

    "You know what this is?" she tried to nod, but her pigtails held her steady, so
    she said.

    "Yes it's a bat!"

    "Good, do you know what it's for?" when she said no I slapped her cheeks with
    it, bringing up a red mark on both, and she started to cry, I move behind her.

    "You were told not to bite, and you did. Pushinment eight strokes, you've had
    two, now six to go" And I brought the paddle sharply down onto one of her
    ass-cheek. Drawing a cry from the girl, I did this on the other cheek, I then
    repeated both strikes again. Then I lined up on her slit, and gave her two more
    directly on it, Her back arched up, which was quite impressive due to the way
    she was tied down, I went back to her head, her eyes were closed, tears
    dropping down her hair to the floor, she was whispering.

    "no more please, I won't bite you again, I'll do anything you want, please
    don't hit me again." I dropped the paddle and held both her cheeks in my hands,
    they were still warm from the paddle.

    "You won't bite again? And you will do anything! Good now suck this." And I
    inserted my cockmeat into her mouth.

    The size and depth of the intrusion into her mouth scared her, but she didn't
    want to be smacked again, so she started to suck on it, she didn't like the
    taste of the liquid on it, but she couldn't do anything about it. Then it
    started to move back and forth in her mouth, then it went deeper. She tried to
    throw up, but her throat was filled with his meat, she couldn't breath, then he
    pulled back, and air flooded into her lungs.

    "Bit rough was it, little one, you're gonna have to learn to breath on the
    outstroke, now open up, I want to use your throat again, remember when I pull
    back, then breath."

    She opened her mouth, and found it full again. I fucked her face for five
    minutes before she finally got the idea and was able to breath again. I
    finally pulled it back and said.

    "Now make it nice and wet, if you don't you'll regret it."

    She tried her best, I removed my cockmeat from her mouth, slyliva coating it, I
    moved back around her and onto the bed, I position myself against her quim,
    opened the lips with my fingers and entered her, as I did she tried to pull
    herself into the bed, I moved a hand under her, searching for her asshole,
    found it, I pulled back slightly, then pushed forward and at the same time
    rammed my finger into her shithole, she tried to move herself up and away from
    it, impaling herself onto my cock, cutting through her hymen. She screamed as
    she felt the skin tear, announcing her transformation into womanhood.

    I laid down on her legs, resting myself so that she could get use to feeling
    myself inside her. My finger stayed within her ass, just to provide
    motivation, when needed.

    After my rest I started to pump into her, trying to get deeper inside her,
    hearing her sobs turning to grunts at each instroke, just to vary the process
    at times I would almost pull out, then jab my finger inside her ass to force
    her up as I went in.

    She was tight, but I didn't notice, after a few minutes of forcing her body to
    accept me we seemed to fit like a finger inside a glove, it stretches to
    accommodate it.

    I was soon pumping my seed inside her, and I felt myself going limp inside her,
    I wanted more. I returned to her head, she was still crying, I patted her
    cheeks and she opened her mouth for me.

    "Lick and suck it back up, little one. I've still got more to do. It wasn't
    the best blow job I'd received, but it did its job. I removed my cock from her
    mouth, and walked to the trolley,

    I picked up a penis-gag, the handle was of a strongman flexing his muscles, it
    was just long enough to hit the back of her mouth, without going down her
    throat. I put this in her mouth and strapped it in place.

    I picked up a moderate vibrator, just slightly larger than my cock - they had
    several sizes available, each with its size printed below it, for my convinces.
    I put some lube on it, well she did try her best, returned to the bed,
    positioned the vibrator at her slit and slid it in.

    Even with the gag I could hear her protesting, so I moved the plastic cock in
    and out, then pressed it in and turned on the vibrating unit. I grabbed hold
    of the lube again and coated her ass, trying first one finger, then two, then
    three. The sounds coming from her mouth grew frantic as she realised what was
    going to happen.

    The idea kept me rampant as I grabbed hold of her hips, to steady her, then I
    rammed myself inside her ass, with the lube I entered her as a knife into soft
    butter, I was balls deep before I realised it.

    The feel of the vibrator separated by just a narrow piece of skin, on my cock
    was amazing and I was soon sperming her young ass. As I got off from the girl,
    I went to the trolley and picked up another dildo, just a bit smaller than my
    prick, I inserted it into her ass. there was a knock at the door, five minute
    warning, just time enough.

    I removed the gag from her mouth and pushed my cock back inside it,

    "Now clean it up, it's dirty." She started to suck it - realised what the taste
    was - and stopped, I hit her cheeks.

    "You remember what I did when you didn't obey?" She started to suck again. I
    was finally erect and clean so I remove my cock from her mouth, replaced the
    gag.

    "That was fun, little one, now you're all opened up for the rest." I could see
    her eyes widen, "Oh didn't you know, I'm the first, there're more following." I
    kissed her on her forehead, now covered in sweat and tears, dressed, walked to
    the door. Unlocked it and left the room.

    When I was outside I removed the mask, two nineteen-year-olds entered the room
    and shut the door. I looked in, they'd already had removed the dildo in her
    cunt and the gag from her mouth, looks like her next lesson - how to please two
    at once - has started.

    I heard a muffled groan from the next room, I looked into it.

    A naked man was tied onto a upright frame, his eyes were pulled open, a
    mechanism ensured that they didn't dry up, what looked like a milking machine
    was attached to his cock, and a butt-plug could be seen in his ass. He was
    watching the action in the other room. I turned to one of the supervisors.

    "What's his story?"

    "Tried to squelch on a bet with the mob, that's his daughter you were pronging,
    we've got his wife in the gang-bang room. Once the debt's paid off we'll let
    them go."

    "What if her does it again?" I received an evil smile,

    "Well. He's got two younger daughters, do you want to know when they'll be
    available?" I nodded and he made a note on a clipboard.

    I wished the poor bastard luck - All the bad luck in the world, I couldn't wait.

    1. Re:better to feel by josef80 · · Score: 1

      Good to hear...
      Better to feel...
      hm... best to actually do something!

      Hope they're not slashdotted with mails now, but a certain amount of SMTP-type response can't be bad. i did my part.

  30. Great news for free software by Snowfox · · Score: 2
    This is great news for free software.

    At home, I run nothing but main and contrib Debian GNU/Linux. No non-free. This means no RealPlayer, no Quicktime, no MS Media. Nothing that I don't get source for. This has also meant no video and audio clips on news sites.

    I've been searching for quite some time for a daily news site with MPEG video and MP3 audio, but have found absolutely nothing noteworthy.

    Enter the BBC. Admittedly, audio streaming is just a start, but if I were forced to pick the BBC for fully free audio/video news and streaming entertainment, I'd be the last to complain. :)

    1. Re:Great news for free software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      That's good, you silly little zealot you. Be a dear, and leave the productivity up to those of us who use the best tool possible.

      Why use Mozilla when you can use IE? I mean seriously, it's a better product. Jesus.

    2. Re:Great news for free software by Snowfox · · Score: 2
      That's good, you silly little zealot you. Be a dear, and leave the productivity up to those of us who use the best tool possible.

      I believe I'm being trolled. No less - you'll note that in the original message, I said that free software was all I use at home. Work is another matter. There, I use a mixture of free and non-free tools, using the combination which generates correct data in the most efficient and comfortable environment possible.

      I'm not entirely worried if productivity slips at home because a tool takes a little extra work, however. But at home, I am worried about security and stability. These things which are handled for me at work. At home, it's up to me to pick the software to which I'll trust my data. And so I pick peer-reviewed open and free software for home, a decision I never regret.

      Why use Mozilla when you can use IE? I mean seriously, it's a better product. Jesus.

      I don't use IE at home because I don't own IE at home. And IE doesn't do anything worth setting up a second computer and buying a copy of Windows for. And IE certainly doesn't give me anything worth changing my chosen operating system and giving up control of my system inernals for.

      A merry christmas to you also.

  31. a better christmas present for /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll


    Penny went through school that Friday with a new attitude. On
    Saturday night she would give her boyfriend John the attention he
    wanted. Her brother had just spent the last few days teaching her
    all about sex and advising her to `fuck and suck your brains
    out'. At lunch, she laughed and joked with her friends in a way
    that she hadn't done in a long time. She arranged to meet her
    friend Jill that night to go out and have a great time. Clearly,
    the cutest cheerleader at Southland High was on a roll. After
    lunch, she had a free period. Then, there was only one more class
    before school ended for the day. As it was Friday, there would be
    no cheerleading practice that afternoon. She could go right home
    and meet Lisa, the college girl staying at her house while her
    parents were away.

    During her free period, Penny decided to go to the gym.
    Maybe John was there playing basketball. As she got to the doors
    of the gym, Leroy was coming out. The same Leroy with the huge
    black dick that exposed himself to her after watching her give
    John a hand job under the stands last Monday. Penny felt a little
    embarassed seeing him because of the things she had said . "Hey
    white bitch." He said. "Yous be lookin fo Leroy? You boy John da
    jerk is busy. Dat slut Jane is doing his dick right now."

    "I don't believe you." Penny cried.

    "Shit, white bitch, Leroy ain't no liar. Yous don't believes
    me, yous come I shows ya." Leroy walked ahead and Penny followed
    the black basketball star. She was a little apprehensive that he
    might take her somewhere and rape her, but she decided even Leroy
    was not that stupid. They went into a locker room that was no
    longer in use. Penny heard some sounds. She walked a little
    further into the room and sure enough there was Jane, sucking
    John's prick. Penny looked on in disbelief. `Why couldn't he have
    waited. I told him I'd do anything when I see him this Saturday.
    Some friend Jane is.' She thought to herself.

    Leroy was standing next to her also watching Jane's cock-
    sucking show. Pennny realized that while she was lost in her
    thoughts, Leroy had slipped his black hand under her miniskirt
    and was resting it on her panty covered ass, rubbing her ass
    cheek. She was about to scream and remove his hand, but felt that
    telltale twinge in her cunt and remembered, with lust, the size
    of Leroy's big black cock. "Well white bitch, what you think a
    dat?" Leroy asked.

    Penny turned and looked the black teenager in the eyes, the
    heat building in her cunt."I think my panties are in the way."
    She said coolly. Leroy smiled broadly at her. His white teeth
    contrasted sharply with his black face in the darkened room. He
    pulled her panties down a little, and put his hand inside of them
    directly on her ass cheek. He squeezed her ass flesh roughly. The
    white girl began to drip cunt juices into her panties.

    "You be comin' wit me now?" He more told her then asked her.
    Penny nodded her consent. He took his hand from her ass, and the
    6' 5" black basketball player left the locker room with the 5' 1"
    white, blue eyed, blonde haired cheerleader obediently following.
    He took her to the Basketball Coach's office. He had a key. He
    opened the lock. They entered and he closed the door behind them,
    re-locking it. Leroy stood before Penny. He put a hand on each of
    Penny's tits and felt her nipples become erect through her blouse
    and bra. "Da Coach give his star a key. He in class now. We be
    alone. So white bitch you boy gots his self anada woman. When I
    sees yous last wit my dick in ma hand yous turns me down. Yous
    say baad tings ta Leroy. Yous hurt ma feelin's."

    "I'm sorry." Penny apologized, concentrating on his hands
    pinching and rubbing her nipples. "Your cock made me so excited I
    didn't know what I was saying. Please Leroy may I see your cock
    again?"

    "No mo dis Leroy shit." Leroy laughed at her, contining to
    feel up her tits. "Yous call me `ma black masta.' Beg ta see ma
    cock. Beg ta suck ma cock you piece o' shit white slut."

    The thought of sucking Leroy's cock hadn't entered Penny's
    mind before. She wanted to touch it and jerk it off like she had
    John. Leroy's commanding voice, his hands on her breasts, squ-
    eezing them like he owned them, and her memory of his long black
    cock excited her. She knew she should leave but said trembling.
    "My black master, PLEASE may I see your cock. I want, no I need
    to touch your big beautiful prick. I need to taste it. I want to
    suck your cock. I want to suck it so damn much!"

    "Yous takes you shirt off." Leroy ordered. Penny slowly
    unbuttoned her blouse and opened it.She let it slip off. Leroy
    put his hands on her tits again. This time only her bra was
    between his fingers and the flesh of her breast. "And you bra
    bitch, and you bra." He said menacingly. Penny reached around
    her back and unhooked her girlish white bra. She let it fall to
    the floor and stood before the black teen-ager, her breasts bare
    and her nipples erect.

    Leroy reached out with both black hands and grabbed her
    milky white tits. He pinched her nipples roughly and kneaded her
    tit flesh. The black teen-ager was determined to degrade the
    half naked white girl before him. "Lift you dress lah me see you
    panties." Penny lifted the front of her skirt up. Leroy surveyed
    her crotch area, then took one hand off her tit and slipped
    inside her little white frilly panties. He found her cunt hole
    and pushed a finger inside of her. She moaned with excitment.
    "Yous can beg betta dan dat. Come on white bitch tell you masta
    how much yous wants his big black juicey cock. On you knees an'
    kiss ma feet." He moved his finger around in her cunt, then
    withdrew it. Penny lost all self control.

    Penny dropped to her knees. She lowered her head to his feet
    and kissed his basketball sneakers. "Please, oh please Leroy may
    I suck your cock? I'll do anything you ask if you let me suck
    your cock now!"

    "Yous come home wit me afta school so's I can fuck ya? Yous
    wants dis nigger ta stick his big long black dick up you lilly
    white cunt don't ya? Yous wants Leroy to fuck you!"

    "Yes! Yes! I want you to fuck me! I'll going come with you.
    I'll do anything you want! Please let me suck your cock now!"

    He grabbed her blonde hair and pointed her face to his
    crotch. "O.K. white bitch, blow me." Penny reached up and un-
    zipped his fly. She put her hand in his pants to find his prick.
    He wore no underwear. She wrapped her hand around it and brought
    it out through the opening. The large black mass of cockmeat was
    limp. "Yous white bitches gots to work to gets Leroy excited."
    Determined to please her black master, Penny ran her fingers up
    and down the limp shaft. She moves to his huge black balls and
    gently caressed them. She moved her face to his cockhead. Her
    heart was beating rapidly as she sucked the black meat into her
    white mouth. She came as her lips closed around his cock. She
    felt the prick begin to enlarged. Penny moved her head back and
    forth sucking as much of the growing shaft into her throat as
    possible. Finally, it was fully erect. She kept her hand on it,
    but pulled her head back so she could see its full length. It was
    much larger than her brother's, and made John's look like a
    baby's.

    "It 14 inches you piece a shit cunt. Get back ta sucking it
    white slut. You best take it all." Leroy ordered. Penny apolog-
    ized for stopping and returned her mouth to the huge dick before
    her. She licked and kissed the underside from the base of the
    black cock to its head. She licked around his pisshole, then
    sucked the cockhead into her mouth. She had trouble swallowing
    more than half the large prick, and continually alternated
    between sucking near the head and kissing and licking further
    down from mid cock to the base. When she next got to the base,
    she moved her mouth over to his balls and sucked one in along
    with his black curly pubic hair.

    When she was done sucking his balls and was returning her
    mouth to the head, Leroy took her head in hands and directed her
    mouth in front of the cock. He pushed his dick in between her
    open lips and moved her head back and forth on the shaft for her.
    Her tongue caressed the underside of his prick while his hands
    guided her head action. On each stroke, he pushed more of the
    black cockhead down her throat then the previous time. After a
    few minutes, he had his entire cock in her mouth, her nose was
    buried in his pubic hair. He then held her head steady, and
    pistoned his entire cockshaft rapidly in and out of her mouth
    from his pisshole to the root. He fucked her accepting mouth for
    several minutes, driving his cock deep in her throat. Penny's
    hands were holding his ass cheeks for dear life, her white mouth
    filled completely with the thick, long mass of black cockmeat.
    Finally, his prick exploded in her mouth, filling it with his
    cum. She tried to swallow it all, but some slipped from her lips.
    He continued moving her head back and forth until he was com-
    pletely drained. Penny realized that she had cum several times
    during this extended blow job.

    Leroy grabbed her hair again with one hand. He withdrew his
    prick from her mouth and took it in his other hand. He rubbed his
    black cockmeat over her cheeks, nose, eyes and lips. Penny kissed
    at it every chance she got. While he was touching her face with
    his cock, Leroy told her all the things he was going to do to her
    that afternoon. Penny put her hand under her skirt and rubbed her
    clit to another orgasm.

    Leroy released her head. "Put you love tool away white
    bitch." He ordered. Penny kissed his black cock loving and put it
    back in his pants. She zipped up his fly, looked up at her black
    master, and awaited further instructions. Leroy took a felt
    tipped pen from the desk lifted one Penny's tits in his left hand
    and wrote an address on it. "Yous be dere at 3." He turned around
    and left the office.

    Penny got up off her knees. She looked at her tit. She copied
    the address into her notebook. She took a towel and cleaned off
    her face and soaked up most of her cum in her panties. She put on
    her bra and blouse, checked her make-up and left. She looked at
    her watch and realized she was late for her last class. She had
    been blowing Leroy for over half an hour.

    For the remainder of school she debated going to Leroy's.
    Her head knew she shouldn't, but her cunt told her she must. Her
    cunt won. After her last class, Penny got on a bus to take her
    down town, to the black ghetto slums of the city. She had only
    driven through there once or twice in her life and had never
    walked in the area. She was frightened. She was the only white
    person around. She finally found the building after asking
    several black women for directions. It was a tenement. She
    climbed five flights of dimly lit stairs and knocked on the
    apartment door with the number that was written on her breast.
    Penny was relieved to see Leroy open the door. It was a quarter
    past three.

    Leroy couldn't believe she actually showed up. `Why didn't
    I's bring ma frends heea.' He thought sadly."You is late white
    bitch!" Leroy screamed at her as he pulled her inside. "I ain't
    gots all day to waste wit a white cunt likes you. I says 3, you
    be here at 3. You dig?" Leroy was squeezing her arm to the point
    where it hurt. She was frightened by his anger.

    "I'm sorry master. I got lost. It won't happen again."

    "Oh bullshit." Leroy said disgustedly. He let go of her arm.

    "Well, what you be waitin' fo, shut up an strip." Penny put
    her books and pocketbook down and began to un-button her blouse.
    The yourning in Penny's cunt increase. Just then, a dog, a large
    black pit bull walked into the room and growled at her. Even
    Leroy could see she was terrified.

    "Dis is Satan, my dag. If yous don't do like I's sez he gonna
    bite you white ass off. Sit Satan."

    The dog sat down. He and Leroy watched as Penny removed her
    blouse and un-hooked her bra. Leroy saw that his note was still
    on her tit. She un-zipped her skirt and let it fall to the floor.
    She then stepped out of her panties and stood naked before her
    black master and his dog.

    "Get you white ass ova heea slut" Leroy commanded. She com-
    plied. He reached for her cunt and put a longer black finger up
    her hole. She got wet immediately. Satan came up behind her and
    put his cold nose to her ass. She gasped in terror.

    "What you know. Satan like you. Spread dem ass cheeks." Leroy
    laughed. Penny knew she had no alternative and brought a hand to
    each cheek and pulled then apart. The dog began licking her
    asshole. Penny came on Leroy's hand.

    "Well I'll be a moda fucka!" Leroy exclaimed. "Yous like dat
    don't yous?" Penny nodded her head affirmatively. "Yous sit down
    on dat bed." Penny walked to the bed and sat. "Spread dem legs
    and cunt lips."

    Penny did as she was told. She thought Leroy was going to eat
    her out. Instead the dog walked towards her. She looked at Leroy.
    "Black man don't eat white cunt." He explained. "Satan do."
    Penny watched as the pit bull walked between her legs and buried
    its face in her pussy. She came again. Leroy laughed as he
    watched her squirm because of his dog's tongue. Penny continued
    to flow love juice as the dog licked her clit, entering her hole
    and fucking her with its rough tongue. Leroy was getting excited
    too. He pulled his shirt off and dropped his pants, revealing his
    magnificent black body. His cock was rock hard and extended from
    his crotch. Penny came again just looking at him. He walked
    towards Penny.

    "Dat 'nough Satan." He ordered the dog away. When the dog
    moved over, Leroy got between her legs, and pushed her down on
    the bed. His cock rested at the entrance to her cunt. "You beg
    Leroy ta fuck ya. Ax me reel nice whore, an' mahbe, jus mahbe I's
    will." Leroy put his black hands on Penny's naked white breasts
    and roughly fondled her nipples.

    Penny was overcome with passion. She was never so hot before
    in her life. Penny needed him to fuck her. "Please master, please
    fuck me! I belong to you. I'm your slave to use as you want!
    Please be kind to your slave and fuck me. I need you to fuck me.
    I'll try to please you. You can use me anyway you want. I'll do
    anything for you. Just please fuck me now!" Leroy laughed at the
    white girl begging him to fuck her. He put his hands in her mouth
    and she licked and kissed them.

    He got on top of Penny. "Put it in reel slow." He told her.

    "Thank you. Thank you for fucking me master." Penny cried.
    She reached down to his prick and aimed his cock head towards her
    pussy. She rubbed it along the length of her cunt slit, then
    place it at the entrance of her cunt hole. She pushed up and
    Leroy's thick, long black cock slipped into her wanting pussy.
    Leroy fucked the white girl hard and fast. She came again as he
    entered her cunt, and what seemed to her, each time he moved all
    the way in. After fifteen minutes of none stopped hard fucking,
    he came in her cunt.

    When he was finished he rolled off of her. She moved her
    face to his dick, and as she was taught by her brother, cleaned
    his cock off with her mouth. "While you down dere, kiss my black
    ass white bitch." Leroy ordered and rolled over.. Without hesita-
    tion, Penny spread his ass cheeks. She put her face between his
    cheeks and licked and kissed his asshole. When she tried to
    tongue fuck his asshole, he stopped her and roughly pulled her
    away.

    "Satan were good to you. He make you cum." Leroy told her,
    looking her directly in the eyes."He use his mouth on you. What
    you gonna do fo Satan." Penny couldn't believe her ears. He
    wanted her to give his dog a blow job. The look in his eyes told
    her he was dead serious. She came again just thinking about it.
    Penny was in a daze. She got off the bed and kneeled down on the
    floor next to Satan. The dog rolled over onto its back, exposing
    its short stubby prick. She put her hand on its stomach and
    stroked it. Her hand slowly moved to the dog prick and encircled
    it. Satan's hard-on appeared immediately, his pink dog penis
    slipping from its protective sheath. Penny laid her head on its
    stomach, her mouth only an inch from the glistening tip of its
    cock. As she continued to stroke its shaft, she moved her head
    lower, stuck her tongue out and licked the tip of the dog prick.
    Then she took the entire exposed pink shaft in her mouth and
    sucked it in. Her tongue began licking it with each stroke. She
    had an orgasm. Penny rubbed her nipples and the dog's fur as she
    continued to suck the dog cock and jerk it off.

    Leroy couldn't believe his eyes. Not only was this dumb
    white bitch doing him, she was doing his dog. She believed the
    bullshit he gave her about the other cheerleaders. As he watched
    her suck off Satan, he got another hard-on. With her free hand,
    Penny was rubbing her pussy and moving her wet fingers to her
    asshole. Leroy knew what she wanted and was willing to give it to
    her. He moved behind her, spread her ass cheeks and placed the
    tip of his black cock on her asshole. While she continued to suck
    the dog, she grasped Leroy's cock and pushed it into her ass
    hole. Leroy grabbed her hips and thrust the black monster past
    her ass rim and in. Penny came. She sucked harder on the dog's
    cock as Leroy pounded her asshole. She felt the dog tense up. She
    squeezed its balls and the pit bull shot its load in her mouth.
    She pulled her mouth back so that both she and Leroy could see
    the dog cum spurt past her lips into her throat. She swallowed
    every drop she could. As the dog prick got limp in her mouth and
    hand, she concentrated on the big stiff black cock in her ass.
    She returned Leroy's hard thrusts. Seconds later, both he and she
    came. The dog cock became limp and slipped from her lips. Leroy's
    dick did the same and slid from her ass hole. She turned around,
    took his dick in her mouth and cleaned the cum and shit off of
    it. He liked that, a clean white slut.

    Leroy walked over to the bed and laid down. He told her to
    stay on her knees and play with herself. She inserted a painted
    finger nail into her snatch and finger fucked herself to orgasm.

    "Crawl ova to you black masta white bitch." Leroy ordered. -
    "Bring you underwear." Penny found her little white bra and
    panties. She got on her hands and obediently crawled over to the
    black man on the bed. Leroy turned to sit on the bed with Penny
    between his legs, kneeling before him. Penny handed him her bra
    and panties. "I's wants anada blow job, white bitch." He condes-
    cendingly told Penny. He pulled Penny head up by her hair and
    pushed her face down into his crotch. Her lips caught the tip of
    his cock and sucked it into her mouth. From blowing him earlier
    that day, she knew just how to lick, kiss, and suck the growing
    black prick to get it fully erect quickly. Leroy kept jerking her
    head back and forth by her hair, calling her degrading names, and
    squeezing her tits. He rubbed her panties and bra over her face.
    She was proud that she could take his entire shaft into her mouth
    from head to root. She had an orgasm.

    Satan got up and walked over to her. An idea entered Leroy's
    head, making him smile. "Lift you ass in da air white bitch." He
    commanded Penny. She stuck her ass up. "Jump boy, jump Satan."
    Leroy told the dog. He jumped on Penny's ass, putting his paws on
    her hips to hold on. Penny felt the dog's prick searching for her
    cunt opening. She knew what Leroy had in mind. She wanted it too.
    She brought her hand between her legs, found the dog cock, and
    put it into her pussy. The dog grabbed her hips tighter and
    thrust into its human bitch. So, an affluent 16 year old, pretty,
    white cheerleader was spending a Friday afternoon giving a blow
    job to a near illiterate ghetto black teenager while his pet pit
    bull was fucking her. Penny pushed her ass back to meet the dog's
    every thrust. She flexed her cunt muscles to hold the dog dick
    tightly. She continued to suck Leroy's thick black cock, guided
    by his hands pulling and pushing her head back and forth by her
    hair. The dog tensed up. He pushed harder into Penny's cunt and
    shot a load of dog cum into Penny's belly. She also came. Leroy
    pulled her head down to the base of cock, his whole prick in her
    mouth, and spurted his sperm into her throat.Penny used her lips
    to squeeze every drop of cum from the cock in her mouth, and her
    cunt muscles to milked the dog prick in her pussy. Penny hungrily
    swallowed every drop. He pulled her head up to the tip of his
    black penis and rubbed his cock over her lips, cheeks and eyes.
    She then licked his prick clean. She turned around, still on her
    knees, and licked the dog's prick clean also. When she was
    finished, she again turned to kneel before Leroy.

    He told her to scoop the dog's cum from her pussy into her
    hand and to lick the hand clean. She did this for several min-
    utes. He told her to lie on her back on the floor and to spread
    her legs and hold her cunt lips opened. When she complied, he had
    his dog eat her out. She had an orgasm. Leroy watched intently
    then said. "Don't look like Satan kin get it up agin. Too bad, I
    was gonna has him fuck you in da ass. We is done wit ya. Get
    out."

    He left the room and the dog followed. Penny asked to use the
    bathroom. "Go fucks youself white bitch" Leroy replied. Penny got
    dressed silently. Leroy came back in the room and said. "Befo
    yous leaves, white bitch, yous owe Leroy money."

    "Why?" Penny asked.

    "I's fucked ya didn't I? Yous owe me fo dat." Penny took her
    wallet out and found one of the hundred dollar bills her brother
    had given her the night before.

    "Will this be enough?" She asked as she handed the money to
    Leroy.

    Not wanting to press his luck, and since it was ten times
    what he thought she would give him after a big argument, he said.
    "O.K."

    Leroy turned her around towards the door. He put his hand
    under her skirt onto her ass, and pushed her towards the exit. He
    decided to take her panties as a souvenir. He opened the door,
    squeezed an ass cheek and pushed her out. "Take you panties off."
    He ordered her. Standing in the hallway of a ghetto tenement,
    Penny reached under her skirt and slipped her panties off. "Lift
    you skirt an rub you cunt wit you panties." Penny raised her
    skirt and rubbed herself to orgasm into her panties. Leroy held
    out his hand. She handed him her cum soaked, little, white,
    frilly panties. He laughed as he went inside, closing the door
    behind her.

    Penny was hot again. She wanted to knock on the door and beg
    him to fuck her again but knew it would be futile. She slowly
    walked down the tenement stairs. Once outside she walked towards
    the bus stop, her cunt juices dripping down her legs.. On her
    way, a group of black kids started to follow her, suggesting that
    she come with them to get fucked all night. Their words made her
    cunt ooze more. She thought about saying yes, and was about to
    when the bus arrived. Reluctantly, she got on the bus, leaving
    the black ghetto, Leroy's magnificent cock and Satan's dog prick
    behind her.

  32. Write your BBC by ImaLamer · · Score: 2

    I hope someone from NPR is reading this, too :)

    Sure, but I hope that Microsoft or Real isn't. The two formats they support aren't free an any sense.

    If you truely want to promote a format that you could count on in the future, write to the BBC telling them the honest truth about the streams. Don't lie, but also explain your somewhat interest in a widely used open source music compression format [codec].

    I really do want to store my entire music collection on CDs - but not a standard audio cd format. MP3 would be good, but it's large and isn't free, although mo'free than WMA and RA. Being able to add a folder to my CD containing the source [or latest CVS mainline] lets me feel safe that later on down the road I may be able to play those songs.

    I don't care if P2P systems don't want to support it - I just want it to be continually developed.

  33. this is new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    It's a humid, windless evening, and my husband and I have been
    entertaining his old college friend, Mike, with rambling stories
    heavily laced with many bottles of wine since early afternoon. Around
    7:00, I can no longer keep my eyes open, and a weave a zig-zagged line
    of kisses goodnight around the table, and make my way to bed as the
    guys loudly drone on about old times. Although the air is stifling, I
    fall fast asleep after stripping down to my T-shirt....
    I awake in a fine sheen of sweat around 2:00 AM. The house is
    dark and quiet, except for the soft snoring of my husband, sound
    asleep next to me. My shirt sticks to me as I swing my legs off the
    bed. I need a glass of water so badly, and I decide to tip-toe
    downstairs and add a couple of aspirin for good measure to the mix.
    In the kitchen, I notice through the doors of the back patio that
    Mike has chosen to crash outside on our big hammock. Now, that's a
    smart idea, I think to myself as I move closer to the door, finishing
    my glass of water. I nearly choke on the last gulp as I realize that
    he is completely naked, laying on his back in the light of a
    half-moon, an empty wine bottle on the grass beneath him. Even from
    the twenty or so feet away, I can clearly see his body...evenly tanned
    and muscular, but not overly so....a hairless chest...a lean
    stomach....and a thick, limber cock gracefully curving over his large
    ball-sack.......and it's uncut.
    I feel a short, quick twinge in my pussy. It's beautiful in an
    ugly way. I'd never seen an uncut cock before in the flesh, and I
    can't take my eyes off of it. As if in a trance, I see myself quietly
    sliding the glass door open....feel the cool grass on the soles of my
    feet....feel the cool night air caressing my slippery thighs....until
    I'm suddenly kneeling at his side...my eyes glued to his magnificent
    organ.
    I glance at his face. Asleep soundly. His strong chest rises and
    falls in a perfect rhythm. My breathing is shallow. I feel my
    breasts growing a little heavier, my nipples beginning to sprout
    beneath my damp shirt. I return my stare to his cock, and the petals
    of my pussy wetly blossom. My mouth grows dry again as I drink in his
    raw cock...so primitive looking....so animal-like.....unleasing
    something in the depths of my mind...something as raw....as
    primitive.....as animal.
    I lean closer, inhaling the delicious musk of Mike's cock and
    balls, and my head spins....intoxicated. The aroma makes my mouth
    water, and suddenly I am swallowing hard. My nipples are now almost
    painful. My heart threatens to burst through my chest...I am lightly
    panting....oh god.....
    I blow a long, cool breath through pursed lips over his manhood,
    and delight in watching his balls slowly move in their fleshy
    bag...causing his thick, veiny cock to roll towards me....the hood
    surrounding the head. I think how cute...it wants to play...it's
    flirting with me.....and adjust my lips to blow the next stream
    directly at the tip of his handsome organ. His meaty cock responds
    again, this time sleepily rising just enough to lift the fleshy knob
    off of his thigh....fattening just a little....the hood pulling back
    just a bit to reveal a hint of pink cockhead....and my greedy pussy
    receives another delicious twinge.
    I can't help myself. My hand reaches out, and one long-nailed
    finger touches the shaft lightly at the base....just the nail....and
    teasingly, ever-so-slowly, traces the thick ridge of muscle...all the
    way up towards the covered knob. I watch with little-girl delight and
    curiosity as his prickmeat twitches and thickens as if it is giggling
    from my tickling nail....until just below his hood, when Mike suddenly
    grunts in his sleep and rools over onto his stomach, hunching his hips
    into the netting.
    Part of me says my fun is over, go back to bed. But another part
    of me has been taken over...and that part says I must see this lovely
    organ in full bloom. I duck down on all fours to look under the
    hammock, and I am greeted with the sight of a half-hard cock, neatly
    captured through one hole of net, his balls straining through two
    others. I shudder as a mini-orgasm passes through me, untouched,
    making me pant a little harder, my mouth open and wet.
    And then I am on my back underneath him, his raw, animal cock
    inches from my lips. I'm dizzy. My tongue slides out of my mouth as
    my neck strains upwards, and I whimper as I make teasing contact with
    this delicious piece of meat....the tip of my tongue lightly flicking
    at the fleshy opening of his foreskin....teasing....burrowing....
    painting the bit of pink cockhead that's beginning to emerge from the
    hood....
    Mike is still silent above me, but my mind is shutting down to
    concentrate only on the treat in front of my mouth. My tongue has
    coaxed more of his glistening cockhead out now, a thin line of saliva
    connecting us, and his stalk continues to slowly thicken and
    lengthen...until I no longer have to raise my neck from the cool
    grass. His raw knob is now swimming in a pool of saliva between my
    teeth and cupped lips. I bathe it lovingly, letting my teeth wetly
    slide back and forth across it. Soon he reaches his full length....a
    thick, gorgeous hunk of cockmeat...firm and demanding...and my mouth
    is forced open to accept a few inches of him. I clasp my lips so very
    lightly around him, caressing rather than sucking, as my eager tongue
    wrestles his juicy cockhead out of its hood. His knob is a salty
    velvet balloon.
    We are one now. Connected cock to mouth. I watch his balls move
    and rise slightly as my lips close behind his cock-knob. My mouth
    begins to milk it...so gently...almost chewing...nibbling. My head
    moves gently side to side, like a lazy fish, hooked. I burrow my
    tongue into his cockhole, tasting his salty precum, and my hands slide
    down my hips and meet at my pussy....fingers of one splayed to hold me
    open....two fingers of the other splayed on either side of my tortured
    clit.
    He is so hard now. No longer a playful organ....now a demanding
    cock. I whimper softly as I work myself slowly to orgasm, nursing on
    my mouthful of salty cockmeat, drawing us both to madness. I feel his
    pounding heartbeat against my tight lips, hear his breathing becoming
    more erratic. The mixed fear and excitement of Mike waking runs wild
    through me, causing me to work my fingers and mouth harder and faster.
    My pussy makes wet, juicy noises as it opens and closes around two
    fingers, my clit being raped by the palm of my hand as I fuck myself.
    The still night air is awash in my scent. It's coming...
    building....my orgasm.... it's going to blind me. My eyes are clamped
    shut as my hips hump my fingers, and by reflex and instinct my mouth
    sucks hard on the bloated cockhead, my tongue pressing against
    it....drawing.....sucking.....
    Then that beautiful tremble....that primal, slight pause from a
    cock that is ready.... it's pushing me over the edge....and I come
    soooooo hard.....hips writhing...mouth slackening as long, thick
    streams of hot salty cream fill my mouth. I turn my head, releasing
    his meat....helpless inside my own orgasm..... and feel his strong
    cock pressed into my cheek, pumping and retreating as his seed runs
    down my neck, and out of my gasping mouth. I try to calm myself as my
    orgasm gradually subsides...opening my eyes to see Mike's glorious
    manhood slowly shrinking....his cockhead slipping back into his
    slippery foreskin....still dripping come onto my soaked T-shirt as it
    receeds.
    All is soon quiet again. Mike seemed to sleep through it all. I
    slip out from under him and take my T-shirt off, wiping up his spilled
    seed from my neck, face, and shoulders. I slip back into the house,
    throw my shirt into the laundry, and slip back into bed, hotter than
    before....but so so satisfied.

  34. GPL violated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    CUNT FOR COLLATERAL PART

    "I don't understand why you asked me here Mr. Watkins. My husband handles the business. He spoke to you about the loan he needs. I don't see how I can help."

    Rhonda Stone smiled at the bank loan officer as she sat down in his office. She and her husband had come to this small town four years before. Her husband, Don, started a small audio/video business that had been very successful. They were well liked in the community and had many friends. Jim Watkins, the loan officer was not one of them. He and his wife lived in the Stone's neighborhood and they saw them frequently. Jim Watkins was an older man in his early 50's. He was always making passes at the 27 year old Rhonda Stone. She was very good looking, blonde, large firm breasts, nice legs and a small waist. He was hot for her. Rhonda wanted nothing to do with him and told him so on several occasions. She thought about telling his wife or her husband but she didn't want to start any trouble.

    Now she was sitting in his office. Rhonda was wearing a blouse and knee length skirt. She was very uncomfortable. Jim Watkins had called her that morning and said he had to get some more information for the loan. Her husband was out of town for the day. She had explained that to him, but he wanted her there.

    "I asked you to come here this morning Rhonda because I want you to suck my cock." He said straight faced.

    "Christ!!" Rhonda exclaimed as she got up to leave. "Fuck you! You son of a bitch! You're an asshole!!"

    "Rhonda, if you leave now, and don't blow me, I'll deny your husband the loan he needs. He'll be out of business in a week. Now sit down." Watkins said calmly.

    Rhonda glared at the older banker, then sat back down. "How can you do that!" Rhonda cried. "Don's never done anything to you. He's hard working and a credit to this town!"

    "He, and you, are yuppie trash. You come to this town thinking your better than the local people. Well he wants some of my money and I want you. I think its a fair trade."

    "I'll never do it! I'll tell your wife, I'll tell your boss! You're crazy if you think I'm going to suck your cock!!" She glared at him with hate in her eyes.

    "Oh! You'll do a lot more then suck my cock. That's just to start with. Over the course of the loan, six months I believe, I'll have you wherever and whenever I want. If you refuse at anytime, I'll call the loan. As for telling my wife, she won't believe you. As you telling my boss. This loan is iffy. I think your husband will do O.K. with it, but its close. Prudent banking would deny the loan. My boss will understand that. Then I'll sue your little ass off for defamation of character. I'll own you! So Rhonda, you little cunt, get over here, stop talking and start sucking!" He laughed.

    Rhonda was stunned. He had it all figured out. She wanted so much to get out of there, but she wanted her husband to get that loan. They needed the money. She sat there thinking and thinking. As her predicament sunk into her she whimpered. "If, I suck your cock now, you'll give Don the loan?"

    "Yes, then as added interest for this risky loan, you'll put out for me whenever I want it. Now close and lock the door and get over here and suck me off!"

    Rhonda sat there with shock in her eyes. Slowly, she realized she had no choice. She was going to do it. She was going to do this for the husband she loved. Reluctantly she got up, locked the door and turned to face him. He was smiling triumphantly. As she slowly walked towards him he said, "take your blouse off".

    Rhonda grimaced. She despised him and what she was about to do. Her husband needed that loan. Slowly, she unbuttoned her blouse, glaring at the banker with unconcealed hatred. As the buttons became undone, she held her blouse closed, hoping against hope for some escape from the lecherous man before her.

    "Quit stalling Rhonda, or I won't fuck you, I'll fuck your husband!" Watkins sneered. Resigned to the inevitable, Rhonda silently slipped her blouse from her shoulders. She stood before the banker in her sexy, lacy, skimpy white brassiere, her large firm breasts barely concealed by the flimsy garment. Her tits pushed against her brassiere, seeming to be trying to break free.

    "Get over here!" He ordered. Her heart was beating rapidly as she approached Jim Watkins. When she came behind his desk, Watkins slid his chair back away from his desk. His pants were undone and his cock and balls were exposed. His cock was long, thick and rock hard. He smiled up at her with contempt.

    "Get down on your knees in front of me and suck my prick. Suck it good and your husband gets his loan. Suck it bad and you're bankrupt."

    Rhonda looked down at the hard prick. Watkins' pubic hair was as gray as the hair on his head. She sank to her knees before the half naked man. Watkins put a hand on one of Rhonda bra encased tits. She was shocked. Involuntarily, she backed away.

    "NO no no!" Watkins laughed, "no titties, no loanie!" Almost crying, Rhonda moved backed to him. Watkins put his hand back on her breast. He squeezed it hard, feeling her nipple become erect. He slipped his hand inside of her brassiere, touching her bare tit flesh. First, his palm pressed against Rhonda enlarged nipple. Then, he tweaked it between his thumb and forefinger. He kneaded her soft tit flesh as the stunned young housewife kneeled before him obediently.

    Watkins pushed her skimpy brassiere cup aside, exposing Rhonda's milky white soft breast. He squeezed and pinched her naked tit. Rhonda remained on her knees before him, half dressed and in shock as his hand worked on her breast. As he moved over to her other tit, pushing her bra cup aside, she started to cry. Watkins chuckled as he continued to feel her up. Then he said, "ahh poor little baby girl Rhonda. She needs a pacifier, something to suck on. Come here baby, suck on this!" He moved his hand to the back of her head and pushed it down towards his erect cock.

    "Please no!" She pleaded as his cockhead touched her lips, "please don't make me do this!"

    "Shut up kid and start sucking! Do it now or your husband's store is history!" The banker laughed.

    Still crying, Rhonda reached up and took his cockshaft in her soft hand and began stroking it. Rhonda ran her fingers up and down his hard cockshaft. She thought if she stroked it enough, he'd cum before she had to suck him. She moved her hand to his balls and gently caressed them.

    "Quit stalling and suck my cock!" Watkins commanded. Ashamed but knowing she had no choice, Rhonda moved her face to his cock- head. She was revolted and her heart was beating rapidly as her silky tongue tentatively emerged from between her soft lips. Then, ever so slowly, her tongue touched the underside of his cock. Rhonda tasted the old banker's prick. Unsure of herself, she licked cautiously at his hard shaft, then, her lips caressed his prick. She licked his cock from his cockhead to its root and back to his cockhead. Still sobbing, she opened her mouth wide, moved her lips to his cockhead and sucked the banker's cockmeat into her warm, watery mouth.

    Rhonda's soft, perfectly painted red lips closed around the older man's long cock. She felt his prick begin to enlarge as her tongue moved along the shaft. Rhonda moved her head back and forth sucking as much of the growing shaft into her throat as possible. Her moist, watery mouth cover his cock shaft with hot saliva. His mushroom shaped cockhead grew larger and more resilient with each passing second. The rhythmic sucking and milking of her soft velvety mouth made Watkins' prick continue to enlarge. He was moving his hips back and forth as her cocksucking mouth aroused him further. Her eyes were opened and she saw his gray pubic hair inches from her cocksucking lips. Finally, his cock was fully erect. Rhonda had long since stopped crying.

    "Oh yeah Rhonda," Watkins panted, "suck on that cock." Rhonda found his words strangely exciting.

    When Rhonda started to blow him, Watkins had taken his hand from her breast. Now, as she continued to suck his cock, Watkins slid his hand onto her chest and explored her breasts. As she blew the banker, his fingers traced her tit flesh, his fingers were rubbing and kneading the proud erect nobs of her nipples. Then he palmed her nipple.

    Rhonda sucked harder, driven by his hands on her flesh, pursing her lips tightly around his thick cock. He was groaning as she continued to stroke the base of his prick and suck on his cockhead. Then she took more of his prick into her soft wet mouth.

    Rhonda returned her mouth to the huge dick before her. She licked and kissed the underside from the base of his cock to its head. When her lips returned to his cockhead, there were drops of pre-cum oozing out. She licked around his pisshole, scooping his pre-cum into her mouth with her tongue and swallowing it. She licked between his foreskin and his cockhead, then sucked his cockhead into her mouth once again.

    The cocksucking act Rhonda was performing on the old man was affecting her. Although she tried to rationalize that this was not really sex, her nipples were hard and erect, her brassiere push aside exposing her naked tit flesh. She felt her pussy quivering and throbbing, discharging hot cunt juices into her panties. She was really getting into it, and now wanted desperately to please the older banker. She wanted to taste his cum.

    Watkins was looking down on her, watching his cock slide in and out of the married woman's mouth. He watched her head bobbing back and forth as her lips held his cockshaft tightly and her tongue flicked madly at the sensitive underside of his prick. He knew she was getting into it, she was enjoying sucking him off.

    Although she was an experienced cocksucker, she had trouble swallowing more than half of his large prick, and continually alternated between sucking near the head and kissing and licking further down from mid cock to the base where her hand was gently stroking and milking his shaft.

    When her lips next neared the root, Watkins panted, "suck my balls!" Rhonda complied. Still jerking his cockshaft with her hand she moved her mouth over to his cum filled balls and licked at his scrotum sack. Then she sucked one of his balls into her mouth along with his gray curly pubic hair. His prick tasted of raw sex. Her tongue and lips worked to devour his one cum filled ball, then switched to the other.

    When she thought she had sucked on his balls enough, Rhonda kissed and licked each one gently before returning her mouth to his cockhead. Watkins looked down at her and watched his cock sliding in and out of her mouth. As he felt up her tit, he was moaning and moving his hips, trying to push more of his cock into her mouth. He took his free hand and wrapped around her's, showing Rhonda how he wanted her to jerk him off into her mouth as she sucked him off. After she was doing it the way he wanted, he pulled his hand from her breast and put both his hands on her head and held it still and then moved his cock in and out of her throat, fucking her mouth. As his cock passed back and forth between her lips, her tongue licked and flicked at the underside of his prick. Her lips held his cock tightly. Rhonda felt his cock getting bigger and hotter. Her eyes looked up at her student as she sucked his cock. Watkins began fucking into her mouth faster and faster, faster and faster. On each stroke, he pushed more of his cockmeat down her throat then the previous time. Her moist tender lips grasped tighter and tighter around his glistening prick as her warm wet mouth took more and more of his huge shaft.

    After a few minutes, Watkins had his entire 10-inch cock in Rhonda's mouth, her nose was buried in his pubic hair. He then held her head steady, and pistoned his entire cockshaft rapidly in and out of her mouth from his pisshole to the root. He fucked her accepting mouth for several minutes, driving his cock deep in her throat. Rhonda's hands were now holding his ass cheeks for dear life, her mouth filled completely with the thick, long mass of cockmeat. Her tongue licked and flicked along the underside of his cock as he reamed it in and out of her throat. Then, he grabbed her head by her long blonde hair and roughly moved her head back and forth along his prick as he continued to fuck into her cock hungary mouth. Rhonda's panties were soaked with her cunt juices which were flowing freely because of her cocksucking.

    "Its time to eat my cum Rhonda!" Watkins panted as he felt his balls swell in anticipation of bursting forth with a heavy load of sticky white cum. Rhonda sucked harder. Watkins knew it was nearly beyond his control, that any second now it would be over. Only a few seconds more... just a Rhonda's lovely young lips tightly pursed around his aching cock, sucking voraciously, trying to milk his cum from him. His body straining to hold back the inevitable. A gasp broke from his parched throat.

    "NOW Rhonda, NOW!!" He screamed. His hands grabbed her head and he shoved her hungrily sucking mouth down hard onto his manically jerking cock. Finally, his prick exploded in her mouth, filling it with his sperm. Watkins's cum filled balls spurted three or four large loads of their precious fluid in her mouth,

    Rhonda continued sucking greedily as every drop emptied down her throat. She tried to lick every moist bit of his cum from the madly throbbing head of his cock. His hot gooey semen tasted like heaven to her. She tried to swallow it all, but some slipped from her lips. He then pushed her head back and shot several spurts of cum all over her face. Rhonda watched as his cock jerked about wildly, ejaculating his hot load on her face. His cum was in her eyes and on her nose. Large globs of cum dripped down her cheeks.

    Watkins put his prick back in Rhonda's mouth. Her lips again tightly encircling his massive cockshaft. He continued moving her head back and forth as she continued nibbling on his cockhead, sucking clean every last drop of his life-giving sperm that she could until he was completely drained. He left his big cock inside of her mouth as it slowly softened.

    "You're a pretty good cocksucker Rhonda." Watkins observed as he pulled his now soft cock from her mouth and put it back in his pants. Rhonda remained on her knees before him, no longer in heat and stunned by what she had just done. "Now, get up here and sit in my lap!" He laughed.

    Not knowing why he wanted her too, Rhonda got up and obeyed.

    Watkins reached over and picked up a stamp and gave it to her. He pointed to a spot on her husband's loan application. "Here!" He instructed. Rhonda stamped the page, `APPROVED'. "There, wasn't it worth it?" Watkins laughed. Rhonda, still revolted by what he made her do, just nodded, `yes'.

    Watkins laughed again and took the stamp from her. He inked it up, then, holding each of her breasts, stamped them `APPROVED'. Rhonda was shocked, Watkins laughed some more.

    "Now get dressed and get out of here. I'll call your husband tomorrow and tell him the good news. I think you should throw a party saturday night to celebrate. I'll fuck you then. Dress sexy, especially under your clothes. Understand?"

    Rhonda nodded `yes'. In a daze, she slipped off his lap, repositioned her breasts in her brassiere, found her blouse and put it on. "May I fix my make-up?" She asked softly. Watkins nodded `yes'. He watched as she did.

    When she got up to leave, Watkins asked, "what do you say?"

    Incensed, but knowing she didn't have a choice, Rhonda answered "thank you."

    Watkins laughed, "your very welcome!" And watched as the pretty young housewife who had just sucked him off for a loan, left his office.

    Rhonda Stone's husband got the loan he needed. As Mr. Watkins, the banker had instructed her when she blew him in return for approving the loan, Rhonda Stone threw a party to celebrate that weekend. A lot of people showed up, crowding her home. Rhonda didn't see Watkins and hoped he wasn't going to come. She knew better. He had told her he was going to fuck her there. Rhonda knew she had to submit to him or he would pull the loan, bankrupting her husband.

    An hour into the party, she saw him, standing with his wife talking to a prominent local businessman. Watkins eyed her, and beckoned her over. Rhonda obeyed.

    "Hello Mrs. Stone!" He smiled. "Do you know my wife Anne and Mr. Jones?" Rhonda shook her head no and Watkins made the introductions. As the conversation petered out after several minutes, Watkins took her aside and said, "upstairs hallway in 5 minutes. NO BULLSHIT!!" Rhonda nodded `yes'.

    She didn't want to do it, but was afraid of his power over her husband's business. She was upstairs when she was supposed to be. She waited several minutes before Watkins came up. "Where's the bathroom?" He asked. Rhonda pointed to it and he pushed her inside, locking the door. "My, you look pretty!" He laughed gazing at her young firm body in a low cut, short party dress, "dressed up for me?"

    Rhonda hated him but nodded `yes'.

    "GOOD! and your undies?" He asked lifting the front of the married woman's dress. She had on stockings, a garter belt and sheer string bikini panties. "Good, you do like your told!" He laughed. "Now take off your panties!"

    "In here!!" Rhonda was shocked.

    "Just do it!" Watkins commanded. Rhonda obeyed, lifting her dress and putting her hands under it to her waist, she pushed her panties down and stepped out of them. Her dress fell back down.

    "Pick them up!" Rhonda bent over and retrieved her panties. Watkins took them from her. He put his hands on her waist, lifted her and sat her down on the sink. He sat down on the toilet. "I want to taste you!" Rhonda was shocked. She enjoyed being eaten, but by this hateful old man?

    "Lift you dress!" She obeyed. Watkins turned to her, parted her long shapely legs and stared at her naked cunt. It was beautiful, covered with soft blonde hair, barely hiding the moist, pink line of her young cunt slit, perfectly framed by the lacy garter belt.

    He took a deep breath of her cunt odor, savoring its smell. Then he extended his tongue and took his first taste of Rhonda Stone's luscious cunt. The flat of his tongue swept between her widespread cunt lips and brought an involuntary gasp from her throat. Almost against her will, her hand moved behind her head and she tilted herself down so she could watch directly. His mouth glued itself to her pussy lips and he sucked hard, letting his tongue curl deep into her moist cuntal passage and then twitch as her interior muscles closed around it. He worked it around then out, seeking the tip of her clit and teasing it, then nipping lightly, expertly with his teeth.

    Watkins lapped like a crazed man at her clit. Rhonda moaned and squirmed in revulsion on the sink. He moved to her open cunt slit and took deep penetrating licks of her glistening cunt. He tongue fucked her hard and deep. He continued to lick and suck, driving the married woman wild with his thrusting tongue. He loved the way her silken thighs clenched around his face knowing she loved the way he sucked her cunt, even if she didn't. Her juices flowed freely from her pulsing cunt into his mouth.

    "Nooo,, please,,, don't,,, please,,, stop...." She sobbed. But they both knew she didn't mean it. Even if she did, Watkins didn't care. She was flailing her hips wildly as he continued to slaver at her wet throbbing cuntal slit. The tormenting wet licking kept on and she heard the lewd "slurp-slurp-slurp" of his tongue licking against her most secret parts even above the wild pounding of her heart.

  35. BBC is a Socialst organization. Ogg makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
    The BBC is a Socialist organization, funded by a mantatory $200/year tax on any British Citizen who owns a tv set.

    The billions of dollars taken from the public are then used to promote an agenda of lesbianism, atheism, socialism, and just about every other unhealthy "ism" you care to mention.

    In a truly democratic society, such a ridiculous manipulation of the media would be seen as unacceptable, but somehow the BBC seems to escape much mainstream criticism of the way it is funded, or the blatant bias of its output.

    Please bear in mind the left-wing slant of the BBC whenever you listen to it. It may be a good news source, but it sure as HELL is not impartial.

  36. The wonderful BBC by Richard5mith · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is too cool.

    The BBC, in their nature, are the most bias-free, impartial news reporting service in the world. The biggest alternatives, MSNBC are obviously going to edge more towards the side of MS related properties (whether or not they say otherwise) and CNN... well CNN is owned by the world's largest media-congolomerate - AOL Time Warner (a company much more scary and powerful than MS could ever hope to be). The BBC is owned by the people and is therefore advertisement free. It's fabulous.

    Replacing their Real streams with Ogg is great for many reasons. It means I can get rid of the horrible, bloated application that is Real Player (now Real One) and use Winamp instead. It means on my Mac I can listen with the various OS X players (Real for OS X isn't available I believe) and it means that if I decided to move to a Linux desktop, I'd have it on there too.

    In fact this is probably why the BBC want to move to. Not counting the fact that licensing Real costs them money, but part of the BBC mandate is to provide their services to as many people in the UK as possible (sorry to disappoint the folks across the world, but the BBC is a public service over here, so we come first :)) and Ogg is the way to do that because it can be used on all platforms. I'm surprised they've been testing Windows Media (they're actually testing that to a greater extent to Ogg) because that limits them so much. Real they use because it does video too, and was probably the best option when they originally setup their streaming services all those years ago.

    It'll be interesting to see if they find an alternative to Real for video too, I believe they want to start doing BBC News 24 (their 24 hour digital TV news service) streaming over the net as well...

    From the point of view of the British TV license owner, for a little over £100 a year the BBC provide us with at least 2 TV channels (more if you have digital), an amazingly comprehensive online service, countless radio stations (at least 5, with others depending on your region) and all of it is completely and utterly advertising free. And, thanks to their promise (they make yearly promises to the British public of things they'll do) to reach out to as many people as possible, and make everything integrate as well as possible - all the radio is available online too. Programs on digital TV are interactive, most programs have a website, and they don't treat the Internet as some mystical magical place for geeks, but as another part of everyday life, just like the Radio and TV.

    So three cheers for the BBC.

    I'll shut up now.

    1. Re:The wonderful BBC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2 TV channels (more if you have digital)

      I don't count BBC Choice as a channel in its own right, unless all you want to watch is CBBC, Eastenders repeats and Liquid News.

    2. Re:The wonderful BBC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol... even the Conservatives' appreciated the well crafted bit of socialism of the Beeb. Not even Maggie dared to privatise it :/ In comparison to other former state organisations like the utter mess they call BT (and still do), it's a remarkable success, which is obviously a direct reflect of its staff. It seems there is room for a bit of well placed socialism within the free market.

      However, it's a shame they screwed up their Digital Radio (DAB) broadcasts on the 21st Dec, down from 192kbps stereo MP2 to 128k joint stereo, not good! FM sounds better if you're close to the transmitters.

      I like the BBC, however I have to question the expansion plans, the new Digital Radio stations are following the "more crap" policy adopted from Digital TV, they are trying to emulate the commercial broadcasters. Apart from inflation, the licence fee doesn't increase to accommodate those new services, so everything is being spread ever thinner, I hope they don't compromise quality, they already have on DAB, I just hope the most important thing, the quality of the content doesn't deprecate, don't disappoint me!

    3. Re:The wonderful BBC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... BBC Choice is a bit of a let down, they're going to rename it to BBC Three and refocus the channel to the youth market, I guess it will be a bit like an E4 type channel.

      The public consultation process is still ongoing, I guess they will get a review at a select committee, you have until 25th January to submit your views to the Dept of Culture if you feel you have something to say.

    4. Re:The wonderful BBC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about the news service owned by our people - NPR?

    5. Re:The wonderful BBC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No... that's just owned by a bunch of corporations that give 'donations' how that is different from commercials I don't know.

    6. Re:The wonderful BBC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not very proud to be British, but I am very proud of the BBC. Whilst I don't like everything thay do (like bidding for events that could otherwise go onto the other channels), I am more than happy to pay £100 or so to keep them running. It's great value for money, and thay set the standard. It will be a sad day if the govenment scrap the licence fee. That said - Channel 4 is fantastic too.

    7. Re:The wonderful BBC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Channel 4 is also not-for-profit, it just doesn't get a cut of the licence fee.

  37. ROCK ON SLASHDOT!@#!()#*@!()! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    SEVENTEEN (4:04)
    (K. Winger/R. Beach/B. Hill)

    I saw sparks fly
    From the corner of my eye
    And when I turned
    It was love at first sight
    I said please excuse me
    I didn't catch your name
    Oh it'd be a shame
    Not to see you again
    And just when I thought
    She was comin' to my door
    She whispered sweet
    And brought me to the floor (she said)

    I'm only seventeen
    But I'll show you love like you've never seen
    She's only seventeen
    Daddy says she's too young
    But she's old enough for me

    Come to my place
    We can talk it over
    Oh everything going down in your head
    She said take it easy
    I need some time
    Time to work it out
    To make you mine
    And just when I thought
    She was comin' to my door
    She whispered sweet
    And brought me to the floor (she said)

    I'm only seventeen
    You ain't seen love
    Ain't seen nothing like me
    She's only seventeen
    Seventeen

    Such a bad girl
    Loves to work me overtime
    feels good (ha)
    dancin' close to that borderline
    She's a magic mountain
    She's a leather glove
    Oh she's my soul
    It must be love

    I'm only seventeen
    But I'll show you love like you've never seen
    She's only seventeen
    Daddy say she's too young
    But she's old enough for me

    -Winger

  38. News Flash - BBC Website Taken Down by heretic108 · · Score: 1

    London, Jan 3, 2002

    In an unprecedented legal twist, the BBC's website has been taken offline, and will stay offline pending the outcome of a legal dispute.

    Following the BBC's decision to trial the use of the inherently insecure Ogg Vorbis format, the Recording Industry Association of America, in a case heard by the San Franscisco District Court, won an injunction against the BBC, with the order that name service to all BBC internet domains be terminated, effectively making the BBC sites unreachable.

    "This is our opportunity to wipe out all open source music distribution", said an RIAA spokesman who declined to be named. "We intend to use this case as a step towards banning all insecure digital music formats. The next step is getting Microsoft to change XP to make it impossible to play insecure media such as MP3, then to lobby for laws to ban ISPs from accepting connections from customers who aren't running content-secured operating systems. It'll take about 2 more years, but I'm confident we will prevail".

    --
    -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
    1. Re:News Flash - BBC Website Taken Down by Aztech · · Score: 2

      Lol, funny you should say that, the BBC do actually have a hand in crafting the MPEG Layer II and III formats believe it or not!

      It all started in the late 80's when they were finalising the Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB/Digital Radio) spec with the Eureka 147 Consortium, the group responsable for developing the Digital Radio spec.

      Anyway they had solved the problem of creating a digital distribution network but the problem was a PCM channel took up the entire multiplex, so Fraunhofer started to develop a perceptual audio codec that would compress the audio and allow many stations in the same multiplex, and so the MPEG audio layers were born. Then the popular growth of the Internet came along, added to the source code available on the Fraunhofer FTP and the rest is history, unfortunately, so are the record companies :)

      The RIAA have a lot to thank BBC R&D for.

  39. didnt get it to work by Tomji · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I used the plug in from the BBC site for winamp.

    tried for 10 mins... not working.

    looks like windows media will win

    1. Re:didnt get it to work by Teun · · Score: 1
      Hmm, tried the Media Player plugin without success.
      Installed the Winamp plugin and Yo!, Music from that half submerged mountain ridge in the Western Atlantic!

      And it sounds good.
      (Tosh laptop, W98SE, ADSL)

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    2. Re:didnt get it to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make sure Winamp is not running when you do the plugin install. Otherwise there's no errors but it does not work. Check you can see the plugin on the list.

      Sounds good to me (on broad stream).

    3. Re:didnt get it to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      I used the plug in from the BBC site for winamp.

      tried for 10 mins... not working.

      looks like windows media will win


      TRANSLATION::

      I'm a TARD,... a Tard... yeah tard...... I am stupid..... stupid yeah.... I cant understand the concept of a site getting slashdotted... I'm a stupid tard..... Yeah.... DFuh.......

      I'll just drool with my windows... cuz it aint hard..... nope.... tard......

    4. Re:didnt get it to work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      This has been my experience, also.


      The facts of the matter are that even after downloading two different products which claim to provide support for Ogg Vorbis on the Mac platform, neither of them seemed to produce anything audible. My love of Linux started back in '93, and I love it for all of its geeky rawness, but if Ogg doesn't run on platform that my wife and kids use, OS X, then Ogg remains in the "nice ideas" department -- nice, but impractical.

  40. Hi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you get a copy of "Trolling for complete fuckwads" for Christmas?

    I ask because I heard Trolaxor has lost his you see, and he'd very much like it back.

  41. audio compression resources by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Hi,

    I suggest you give Project Mayhem a try - it's arguably the most quality-conscious audio forum on the internet, and you'll find alternatives to FLAC which I think your ears will be very happy with (i.e. MusePack -insane).

    That aside, you are never going to see 'common' people trading FLAC or APE files between themselves, the benefit to the few simply doesn't outweigh the 6-fold increase in time and storage needs for the many.

  42. News Flash - World Outside of US Shocker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Slashdot, Dec 25, 2001

    In a fully precedented and wholely unsurprising post on Slashdot, heretic108 made the same blinkered mistake that many idiots repeat. In his post, he made the classic mistake of thinking that the BBC, the UK state owned broascaster, would give two fucks about a court decision made by the San Fransisco District Court.

    When faced with this news, heretic108 immediatly looked confused, at first refusing to believe that anything could possibly exist outside of the United States of America. "No way man! Those places are made up for like, episodes of Jackass. The UK was invented by MTV!"

    No one was available for comment from Slashdot at the time of going to press.

    1. Re:News Flash - World Outside of US Shocker by heretic108 · · Score: 1

      For your information, dude, I live in New Zealand.

      The article was satire (look up that word in www.dictionary.com or somewhere), and based on real experience:

      I was offering download of a banned book on a website hosted on my server here in NZ. The ISP pulled the plug in obedience to a US court order, and in so doing, 'acknowledged' US jurisdiction on New Zealand soil.

      --
      -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
    2. Re:News Flash - World Outside of US Shocker by david+duncan+scott · · Score: 2

      "Banned book"? What was it?

      --

      This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander

    3. Re:News Flash - World Outside of US Shocker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More fool New Zealand for bending over & taking up the ass eh?

  43. Sure...they're supporting it NOW ! by Phantom_24 · · Score: 0

    Until 20-30 years from now when they'll be claiming THEY invented the darn thing ....remember HYPERLINKS anyone ?!?!?

    1. Re:Sure...they're supporting it NOW ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your thinking about BT not the BBC, nice troll attempt btw.

  44. lame 3.9x is available by porky_pig_jr · · Score: 2, Informative

    I know it is slightly off-topic but LAME 3.9x has been released. I don't remember seeing any announcements on slashdot. it has a new set '--alt-preset' settings, and default setting, '--alt-preset standard' which gives about 192Kbps on average is *quite* good. The fact is that mp3 still dominates, and hence the rationalle for improving LAME. If you don't mind the rate > 128Kbps, give new LAME a try.

  45. Change the Name! by ahollis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Credibility is everything in the commerical acceptance game. You need to look it, act it, and *least* importantly have the goods to back it up. Examples come and go of tech that gets ditched even though its better.

    Pick a new name for Ogg Vorbis. I would consider myself a geek but at a glance when I first read about it, I had NFI what was going on.

    Something snazzy, something that implies audio. [and im not qualified to make suggestions]

    1. Re:Change the Name! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ogg is the name of the family of codecs (video, audio). Vorbis is only one of these, the audio codec. As is, I think that Vorbis is a catchy enough name. What do you think?

  46. Gross. by Eric+E.+Coe · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    This is the best argument I have ever seen for outright deletion of comments. -1 is too good for this highly offensive crap.

    And it's just at 0. Where are you, moderators?

    --
    An esoteric scratched itch:
    Homeworld Map Maker Tool
    1. Re:Gross. by uncl_bob · · Score: 1

      I totally agree. This is a fucking nasty story. Should be removed damn quick.

    2. Re:Gross. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ACs should be able to be modded to -2. Users only to -1, to encourage logged in posts.

      I would like team filters where users can filter comments filtered by many teams - thus encouraging a system where teams become trusted for their modding.

  47. Sounds really good... by hummer357 · · Score: 1

    I must say, the ogg stream sounds real good. It took me about 1,5 minutes to get it working (winamp plugin on winXP -- yeah yeah... shoot me -> this is my gaming rig ;-).

    I'm a fan!

    If xiph just got version 1.0 out soon... I could start working on my jukebox ;-)

    1. Re:Sounds really good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Your gaming rig is a better os than your other workstations. Get used to it. XP makes linux look like swollen turd.

  48. They also use apache by fanatic · · Score: 2, Offtopic

    # lynx -head -dump http://news.bbc.co.uk
    HTTP/1.1 200 OK
    Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 00:31:05 GMT
    Server: Apache/1.3.14 (Unix)

    # lynx -head -dump http://www.bbc.co.uk
    HTTP/1.1 200 OK
    Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 00:31:25 GMT
    Server: Apache/1.3.14 (Unix)

    Someone over there may be a big open source advocate.

    --
    "that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
    1. Re:They also use apache by Ehrine · · Score: 1

      I guess the bbc have hired some sensible people that don't see why they should throw money at companies like microsoft to provide inherently insecure software to them, not to meantion the costs incurred in supporting said software.

      Interestingly (at least to me), Amazon made a move away from IIS to Apache a while ago and is expected to save a stupid ammount of money on support costs... With fairly well known names like these beginning to move to open source platforms, perhaps some other companies might get the hint that they're good solutions and jump ship as well... If enough do it then Microsoft may have to actually produce good software for once...

      Nah... It's just a pipedream I guess....

    2. Re:They also use apache by Aztech · · Score: 2

      Indeed they are, Linux Planet did an article on the BBC many moons ago.

    3. Re:They also use apache by matthew.thompson · · Score: 2
      --
      Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
  49. This is excellent by Karora · · Score: 2, Informative


    All partisanship aside, I think this is excellent, and I have been hoping that someone like BBC will do this for some time.

    I've been listening to this for the past few hours, and the radio seems excellent. It's kind of rare to listen to English radio here in New Zealand.

    Of course if I wanted to be partisan I could also add that I don't like the bloat that comes with Real, and I can't listen to Windows Media on my non-Windows system.

    I do hope the BBC continues to offer this choice in the future.

    --

    ...heellpppp! I've been captured by little green penguins!
  50. does MP3 imply audio? by timothy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    a) I used to think the same thing (for a glimmer of a speck of the thin side of a scanty moment), but changed my mind before the gel could set.

    b) words acquire meaning through use. When people ("most people") say "MP3," they sure as heck aren't thinking "Layer 3 of a certain spec from the Motion Picture Experts Group." They're thinking "emm pee thrie -- three great sounds that sound great together." Or even "empythree." Which is to say, it's just a few syllables serving as a name, not the abbreviation it really is at heart. "doubleya emm eff" has no more cognitive strength except to a small number of people who know (but don't need to know, exactly)what those letters / sounds stand for.

    c) As (not when) Ogg catches on, it will be catchier, "stickier" and more fun than some marketing department-style contrivance. ("SoundChunk"? "Earbit"? "AudiAll"?). Apple is a funny name for computers, but it's not just a "so what?" -- it's actually a strength of Apple. [Weak point, I know: "Apple" has a clean, interesting sound, food associations, as well as previous associations like Apple Records, intriguing religious / artistic connections, too ... but at least part of this line of thought is valid, I think.]

    d) Heh, "Ogg should change its name" and "No it shouldn't" have perhaps become one of the standard slashdot sub-plots for the ages, but I know I come down on the "Keep it, love it, revel in it" side.

    Cheers,

    timothy

    --
    jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
    1. Re:does MP3 imply audio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic


      nope, it's gay. change it, or face the fact it will never be anything near popular.

  51. BBC is pretty forward thinking... by Timbo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been watching news.bbc.co.uk for a couple of years now and I think it's safe to say the BBC is definately pro open source. I have read a number of articles dealing with Operating Systems and they have overwhelmingly leant towards promoting free software and in particular linux.

    Whether or not their web staff are linux orientated, their journalists are certainly well learned :)

    I suppose in a way it makes sense - for anyone that is unaware the BBC is a state funded corporation. As a consequence their budget isn't exactly huge, so they would want to keep costs down. (Despite their low bugdet the BBC does provide excellent television and radio - far superior to the commercially funded channels available in the UK. And there are no advertisements! (commercials) )

    1. Re:BBC is pretty forward thinking... by dunstan · · Score: 2, Informative

      I pay for the BBC (which isn't state funded - it's funded by the Television Licence which you have to have at any address where there's a television) and moan constantly about the dumming down that goes on there year after year. But (as they so smugly keep on reminding us) the funding mechanism *does* enable them to be more speculative both with content, where the occasional gem surfaces, and technically.

      They were very early with teletext services (and today the close captioning still runs via the teletext service). They were early with broadcasting using Nicam. Hell, they were early with broadcasting television at all. They were later than the US with Colour television which is A Good Thing as we run on PAL rather than Never Twice the Same Colour (NTSC - yuk).

      They were also pretty early with providing internet services - and it was copyright rather than technology which stopped them putting teletext onto the web/gopher much earlier. They are proud (and yes, a bit smug too) about the amount of emailed listener feedback they get from around the world.

      My big fear is that they spend a fortune on external consultants - not that the money is wasted, but that the MacKinsey style suits of the world will advise the senior management at the BBC to climb into bed with, for example, MicroSoft for content delivery. They have a good track record over the last few years of "outsourcing" some absolute jewels of internal resources (the library services, the music library services, the pronounciation unit), and losing the skill and expertise which has been built over more than fifty years.

      The BBC seem to be particularly receptive to opinion from overseas listeners, so if you want to remind them that enabling free (whether beer or speech, but preferably speech) technology will increase their listener base in the developing world, then that is a good point to make.

      Dunstan

      --
      The last scintilla of doubt just rode out of town
    2. Re:BBC is pretty forward thinking... by Timbo · · Score: 1

      I pay for the BBC (which isn't state funded - it's funded by the Television Licence which you have to have at any address where there's a television)

      State funded in the sense that it is funded by the people rather than advertising/commercial organisations.

    3. Re:BBC is pretty forward thinking... by thycotic · · Score: 1

      I worked for the web development team at the BBC (Bush House in London) on contract in 1999. The majority of our team used Mandrake Linux (version 6 at the time!) on our desktops. The development language of choice was Perl. The database platform was Oracle but prototyping was done locally using MySQL.

      I think it was just easier to run a UNIX environment locally since that was what we were developing for ... - being a non-profit organisation probably allowed for the leniency in desktop policy that made such things possible!

      It was a fun place to work!!

    4. Re:BBC is pretty forward thinking... by Wills · · Score: 1

      "... the BBC is a state-funded corporation. As a consequence their budget isn't exactly huge, ..."

      The BBC is paid for by television license fees. You need a license to own and install a television set in the UK. There are c.25million owners of television sets in the UK paying at the 2001 rate of (UKP)c.110/year. I don't know what you call huge but that makes the BBC's total revenue around (UKP)2.75billion/year, which seems huge to me.

    5. Re:BBC is pretty forward thinking... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "They were early with broadcasting using Nicam"
      Which is understandable since they actually invented NICAM.
    6. Re:BBC is pretty forward thinking... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The correct term would actually be publicly funded then, the 'state' or government doesn't fund it.

    7. Re:BBC is pretty forward thinking... by John+Allsup · · Score: 1

      In particular, the right to enforce licenses in the way that they do (i.e. running around with detector vans, suspecting EVERY household without a license of possibly watching TV without one, and requiring the address of every purchaser of every TV capable device being sent to TV licensing within 1 month of the sale...) is granted by the state (read: act of parliament).

      Luckily, it's just that, and would require an act of parliament at the very least to allow any other public broadcast media to be licensed in a similar way. (Allowing anybody to use such methods to enforce e.g. copyright would be a disaster, but TV watching seems to work OK with the current system)

      --
      John_Chalisque
  52. Nope by metrix007 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    BBC using ogg has nothing to do with open source, they are using it to reach a wider audience and because it is superior, because it suits them better, they dont care if it is open source or not.

    --
    If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    1. Re:Nope by mccalli · · Score: 2, Insightful
      they are using it to reach a wider audience and because it is superior, because it suits them better, they dont care if it is open source or not.

      I suspect they're also using it because it's cheap. Very cheap. Free, in fact. This is a GOOD THING(tm) for a public service organisation.

      Cheers,
      Ian

  53. Great for audio...what about video? by jmd! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With Ogg Vorbis we have a good, streamable mp3-type audio encoding that satisfies pretty much all sound needs... We've got nothing for video, however.

    Most sites out there seem to offer all three of real, quicktime, and bill's media player, as there still isn't a clear winner in the area. Still ample opportunity for Ogg Tarkin or DivX2, but they need to be as good as or better then all three of the commercial alternatives, in cpu use, streaming, file size, etc. I have a feeling this is going to be much more of a challenge for video then it was for audio, and if an open source solution can't pull it off, eventually the winner of the video battle (probably microsoft) will win the audio battle for free.

    1. Re:Great for audio...what about video? by jmd! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Forgot to mention...

      Real(tm) realizes this, which is why they've integrated their two players into "Real One" (which, by the way guys, is a stupid name).

  54. working now by Tomji · · Score: 1

    tried again (RTFM)

    I had mad plug in installed... that made a conflict.

    well anyway... nice sound quality - but I need my Mad plugin back ;p

    1. Re:working now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The most recent MAD plugins have a fix that eliminates the conflict.

  55. IP Multicasting by Florian+Weimer · · Score: 4, Informative

    IP Multicasting is already availabe, and multicast-based services have worked reliably despite the load that was placed on general news content the few days following 2001-09-11, which is quite remarkable. (Well, IRC and Usenet kept working, too...)

    Unfortunately, Joe Average does not demand multicasting support, so you have to look very closely in order to find an ISP which supports it. AFAIK, here in Germany, you can get multicast support almost everywhere, but of course at rates which are not affordable for personal use.

    In theory, multicasting is very interesting for ISPs, too: you receive the traffic once and account it seperately for each customer. Unfortunately, multicasting requires quite an investment to get started, both in man hours and hardware (although most hardware nowadays supports multicasting, but maybe not in an optimal way).

  56. Actually.... by Newer+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

    BBC is streaming Ogg at 44kbps, and it seeoms to be working just fine.

    1. Re:Actually.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure? My xmms screen read "96Kbps 44KHz",
      but I didn't get any sound...

      Maybe it's my old (potato) xmms?

  57. Wow, she was right! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    ...you ARE a dick.

    Thanks for giving me a reason to never, ever use Ogg -- I don't care how "libre" it is (and normally, that WOULD appeal to me). If using Ogg puts wind into the sails of self-important sand-pounders like you, then allow me to steer clear.

    Oh, and Merry Xmas!

    1. Re:Wow, she was right! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not going to use a free and superior format because some zealotous troll was having fun? Damn, you are a fucknut. Nice post, though!

  58. HELP! by GODLYDavidRing · · Score: -1

    Could someone try streaming from my ogg icecast and post what happens?

    http://comp-u-geek.cjb.net/ogg/

    1. Re:HELP! by metrix007 · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      you fucking cunt whoar, fucking post shit like that agian and i will ............grrrr you make me so farking angry no balls coward

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
  59. Quicktime *IS* open source by benh57 · · Score: 1, Informative

    Quicktime streaming server is free, open source and is available at http://www.opensource.apple.com/projects/streaming / binary distros and of course the source are there for Mac OS X * FreeBSD 3.5 * Red Hat Linux 6.2 * Solaris 7 * Windows NT Server/Windows 2000 Server -Ben

    1. Re:Quicktime *IS* open source by QuMa · · Score: 1

      Except for the eeny weeny tiny little fact there are no open source (or even decent closed source) player available... Well, xanim has a decoder for some of the codecs, but all the ones for which decent decoders are available are crap at low-bandwidth. Not to mention that I've never really heard any decent low-bandwidth quicktime audio codecs whatsoever.

    2. Re:Quicktime *IS* open source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you, apple-scumputer lover.

  60. Ogg Streaming by mini+me · · Score: 2

    I thought that Ogg was suppost to put all the most important bits at the beginning of it's frames. Therefore you could stream out a 128kbps ogg and if someone is on dialup it will automatically scale to suit their connection speed.

    I'm guessing this never made it to the format? Too bad cause that would have been great!

    1. Re:Ogg Streaming by QuMa · · Score: 1

      How would that work? If the server sends you data at twice the data-rate your connection can manage, half of them won't reach you. You have no choice which of those reach you. :(

    2. Re:Ogg Streaming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the client sends back acknowledgements when the data reaches it, then the server knows how much data can reach the client, and then scale back as necessary.

      Of course, I don't know anything about OGG streaming....but that would work.

    3. Re:Ogg Streaming by QuMa · · Score: 1

      If you do it like that, what does it gain you? I doubt it'll save server cpu time, at that's all it could help performance-wise...

    4. Re:Ogg Streaming by six809 · · Score: 1

      The idea is that the server peels according to desired bitrate. Apparantly this is still not trivial in RC3 (allegedly possible, just not as easy as it will be) but should be there by 1.0.

      This would either work by the client requesting a particular maximum bitrate, and the server detecting when it couldn't send fast enough (already possible, though might get a bit confused by proxies).

  61. Suck on it, geek! by GODLYDavidRing · · Score: -1

    Yeah!

    1. Re:Suck on it, geek! by metrix007 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      you think your so cool? ur just a fag man, look at your homepage!!! give me your ip gay little windows user and ill fuck u up real good

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
  62. DIVX 5.0 IS OUT!!! by GODLYDavidRing · · Score: -1

    Speak of the devil, DivX 5.0 is out and uses ogg technology for video!

    http://www.divx.com

  63. Sorry, the British TV 'tax' is awful. by wackybrit · · Score: 1

    Ew, ew, ew! This is horrible.

    I don't dislike the BBC, but I dislike the practice of every TV owner in the UK being forced (you go to *prison* otherwise) to pay £100 (US $150) a year to go to a company you might even be interested in.

    Why should I pay $150 a year just to own a TV if all I use the TV for is to watch DVDs and play Playstation? It's frightfully socialist, and the sooner they scrap the licence fee and allow the BBC to make its money in a decent capitalist way, the better.

    (Note for American readers: Once upon a time you had to have a licence to even own a radio in the UK.. and, believe it or not, you had to have a licence to own a dog. The UK will tax you for anything and everything they can get away with.. and we don't even have a constitution to prevent it.)

    1. Re:Sorry, the British TV 'tax' is awful. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if you distain the BBC and don't have any contact with their TV, Radio, Web content but just watch the commercial channels you have to remember the BBC keeps those channels in check, they can't let their content suck too much or bombard you with adverts (like some countries) but they have to compete with the BBC.

      It works, in a weird sort of way.

    2. Re:Sorry, the British TV 'tax' is awful. by hughk · · Score: 2
      If you can not receive then you do not need a licence. This was tested in court back in the times of the early home micros (ironically enough, the BBC micro) and with no antenna, the receiver was deemed not to be functional as such ad the prosecution was dropped.

      In Germany, I pay rather more than £100, but the state sponsored channels still carry the same crap advertisements as the commercial channels (however the breaks are slightly shorter). We also have to have a licence even if we only have a radio. Currently the use of Internet radios and licences is under question. The only people who avoid the TV and radio licence fees are the diplomats.

      As a total side note, the German press wrote of Mohammed Atta and Co of September 11th fame, who were studying in Germany that they even paid their TV licenses!!!!!

      --
      See my journal, I write things there
    3. Re:Sorry, the British TV 'tax' is awful. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in London UK and I don't pay for a TV
      license - because I don't own a TV. You only
      have to pay if you own a TV which can receive
      programmes....

      Toby

    4. Re:Sorry, the British TV 'tax' is awful. by festers · · Score: 1

      Do you also get taxed if you own a tv tuner in your PC?

      --


      -------
      "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
    5. Re:Sorry, the British TV 'tax' is awful. by MsGeek · · Score: 1
      (Note for American readers: Once upon a time you had to have a licence to even own a radio in the UK.. and, believe it or not, you had to have a licence to own a dog. The UK will tax you for anything and everything they can get away with.. and we don't even have a constitution to prevent it.)

      In most cities in the US, you have to license your dog or lose it.

      Also the US version of Auntie Beeb, called PBS, has things called "pledge breaks" where people harangue you for minutes on end to "become a member" of their lovely Public Broadcast Station. It's almost as bad as paying a "telly tax" every year. Hell, I'd pay a yearly "telly tax" if it meant no more "pledge breaks" on PBS and no more threats by the right-wing nuts in Congress to cut off funding to PBS!

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
    6. Re:Sorry, the British TV 'tax' is awful. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're not already covered by one for your TV(s), yes.

  64. Stuff to listen to on Radio 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Now that all of you have access to a great Radio 1 feed, perhaps I should fill you in on what you can listen to on this wonderful station.

    The big problem is that it's Christmas, so they've taken off the regular good DJs (Chris Moyles, Sara Cox, Mark and Lard etc) and replaced them with really crappy ones (Vicky Marsden, Scott Mills, Jamie Theakston).

    But.. today (Boxing Day), there's a good music show on at 10pm GMT (5pm EST).. it's John Peel (been a DJ for 40 years, somewhat of a British musical god) presenting 50 of the best voted songs.

    And on regular weekdays, you get the regular wonderful lineup (this is from Thursday I'd guess):

    7am GMT (2am EST) - Sara Cox.. northern lass, you Americans won't be able to understand her cute accent.

    1pm GMT (8am EST)- Mark and Lard.. two weird northern comedians with crap sense of humor but funny none the less.

    3pm GMT (10am EST)- Chris Moyles.. a radio comedy GOD! Plays the typical crap from the charts, but is a comic genius.. plenty of laughs on this show.

    10pm GMT (5pm EST) Tues, Weds, Thurs only - John Peel.. a guy who plays everything that's either weird, independent or new.. like The White Stripes, The Strokes, and all sorts of crazy nonsense. Gotta love it.

    DJs to avoid include the god-awful Scott "I wish I was Pat Sharp" Mills, and Jamie "I wish I didn't look like Pat Sharp" Theakston. Other than that, Radio 1 is a top station.

    Radio 4, on the other hand, is a generally dull talk station run by the British elite to brainwash the British public to their socialist trains of thought.

    1. Re:Stuff to listen to on Radio 1 by mccalli · · Score: 1
      Radio 4, on the other hand, is a generally dull talk station run by the British elite to brainwash the British public to their socialist trains of thought.

      Naah. How about their comedy stuff? Hitchhiker's Guide fan are we? Where did that come from? How about Goodness Gracious Me? Current one making the leap to TV is Dead Ringers, but also look out for the News Quiz, I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue and Just a Minute.

      All broadcast at 18:30 GMT on weekdays.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    2. Re:Stuff to listen to on Radio 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Urgh. Sara Cox and Chris Moyles are just plain awful (comedy god indeed, tsk, ever heard 'Moyles Sting' from Blue Jam? [www.cookdandbombd.co.uk]).

      Mark and Lard have occaisional gems.

      John Peel is great though.

    3. Re:Stuff to listen to on Radio 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be fucking joking. Sara Cox is the worst presenter I've ever heard... no question. Stupid, vacuous and deeply unfunny. I used to listen at work, but then I cracked one day and turned to Radio 2 until 1pm - then back to Radio 1 for the superb Mark & Lard, and the passable (but occasionally great) Moyles until 5pm and hometime.

      Radio 1 is a fucking wasteland until 1pm and after 6pm.

    4. Re:Stuff to listen to on Radio 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm of the opposite opinion. Mark & Lard's jokes are all based around the same thing.. Lard pretends to be some dickhead with a regional accent, supposedly 'phones up' Mark and continually makes stupid puns etc etc.. And what's with all that 'No need' crap. They're a one joke show.

      At least Moyles actually has some variety and doesn't try to pull the same joke about fifty times each day. And he does some great parodies of chart songs.. like the government version of When I Got High, etc.

    5. Re:Stuff to listen to on Radio 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One joke show? Nah... Mark & Lard's stuff is their own, unique and very varied - have you ever heard their song parodies as The Shirehores. Pure genius.

      Moyles really is a one joke show. His gig is being rude to people, and it works occasionally. The song parodies are often funny, but the really good ones ('cos I'm high) are by the brilliant John Culshaw.

    6. Re:Stuff to listen to on Radio 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry I haven't a clue is finishing its current run this week. Boooo.

      It's the funniest thing on Radio. For all those people who think Radio 4 is a all fuddy duddy shit... you're wrong. It mostly is, but there are some real gems in there.

  65. Hell Yeah! by sniepre · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Its awesome to be able to recieve Radio-1 With better quality, the stream running 64kbps on Ogg sounds noticibly better than the old streams i used to listen to.. .great to put on at a party in the background a radio 1 essential mix.... :)

    only one question... How would one save the files after broadcast? (i.e. to save the essential mix broadcasts?)

    --
    Is not life a hundred times too short for us to bore ourselves? -Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
    1. Re:Hell Yeah! by slim · · Score: 2

      only one question... How would one save the files after broadcast? (i.e. to save the essential mix broadcasts?)

      In XMMS, go to the Ogg Vorbis configuration window, and select "Save stream to disk".

      NB, this is one reason some broadcasters might prefer to use proprietary streaming formats -- they don't want people keeping recordings, and a proprietary player makes it marginally more difficult for a non-technical person to record (although a hacked soundcard driver will defeat any such measures).

  66. It's there, just not in icecast. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The server software lacks the infrastructure to peel the files, but it's totally there in the codec.. Actually, thats how the bitrate limiting in RC3 works: By performing peeling in the encoder.. Later this should get moved into ice cast.

  67. you may be right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I accept the badge of "fucknut" with honor, sir. Because what's the correct response for out-of-control slashdot zealotry?

    MORE ZEALOTRY! I cancel his use of Ogg out. That way, perhaps saner heads -- you know, people who use software as a tool, not as a way to relive the glory of high school student-level politics -- will prevail and make Ogg into something truly useful for everyone, not just the GNU/elite.

    But, thanks for the compliment!

  68. YUO CAN'T H4x0r MICROSOFT! by GODLYDavidRing · · Score: -1

    207.46.230.219

  69. dot9 uses ogg vorbis...mostly by pinkj · · Score: 1

    my electronic music geek friends and i have a site at dot9 and we are in the process of having all our music encoded to ogg. unfortunately we have to educate a lot of the people who d/l the songs about the format, but i guess we're doing our part to spread the knowledge of ogg vorbis and it's amazing low bitrate encoding.

  70. digitallyimported.com by austad · · Score: 2

    digitallyimported.com had a Vorbis stream for awhile. It was up and down all the time because they were always messing with it. It was 80kbps, but sounded better than the 128kbps MP3 stream. They've taken it down citing too much work.

    I've played with Icecast's Vorbis support, and frankly, it was kind of a pain in the ass to get working. Administering a whole bunch of servers with it would most likely be a big pain. mod_mp3 for apache supports Vorbis though, I've suggested that to DI, hopefully they will check it out.

    --
    Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
  71. Their web server by kimihia · · Score: 1

    They seem to be running Apache on Solaris and Linux for news.bbc.co.uk.

    They have a more up to date version of Apache for www.bbc.co.uk.

    Have glance at the 212.58.224/24 netblock.

  72. Where to find loseless codec? by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1



    You mentioned FLAC and other lossless codec format.

    My question is - WHERE to find them?

    Thanks in advance !

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Where to find loseless codec? by at_18 · · Score: 1

      On sourceforge:

      http://flac.sourceforge.net

  73. Sharp clicking sounds aren't music by glrotate · · Score: 0

    So who cares

  74. Yeah, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How long before Apple speaks up and says they already have a patent on this technology?

  75. Re:BBC is a Socialst organization. Ogg makes sense by steve_l · · Score: 1

    Maybe, but they covered all those unhealty-isms in blackadder so well that it is well worth the money. The rest of the world has to make do with the DVD compilation.

    (a british citizen who doesnt pay the tv tax on account of being abroad)

  76. Write to CBC etc by dryeo · · Score: 1

    The BBC streaming Ogg Vorbis is good as it can reach the widest audience and is inexpensive.
    That is the gist of the letter I am writing to the CBC. Be a good idea for others to write to their public broadcasters and tell them this. Also remind them they are at least partly supported by us, the taxpayers (even if only thru nonprofit status)and we want value.

    Merry Xmas

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  77. [OT] Serious Sam SE Uses Ogg by rmathew · · Score: 1

    Slightly offtopic, but I noticed that Serious Sam Second Encounter uses Ogg Vorbis - I found that cool. I hope more game developers start using Ogg. Way to go Croteam! Ranjit.

  78. I would add... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that this is a great move also for privacy concerns. Real and
    Microsoft players are both well known spyware.

  79. Yup, bundling is overrated by cygnusx · · Score: 2
    MP3 format was not supported by M$ or any other OSes at the time. People just like them cuz of the conviniences and the superior compression it has over other formats (at the time).


    Good point. I mean, so Java is not bundled with Windows. So Ogg is not bundled with Windows. Heck, *RealPlayer* and *QuickTime* are not bundled with Windows. So does that stop people from installing QuickTime or RealPlayer or the JRE? Hey, with WinME, XP etc, Windows Media Player has been a very prominent addition. But people still get Winamp, Sonique etc. They still install Quicktime on their PCs.

    Point is, users != sheep. Given a reasonably easy install procedure, they can indeed download and install a plugin. Heck, on windows, installing binary code off the web is a piece of cake (one reason malwares love windows ;-)).

    PS. Even now, Winamp 2.78 "Lite" clocks in at 502 kB. Those guys at Nullsoft sure have a good thing going in terms of Winamp2x.

  80. Do they do multicast? by 21mhz · · Score: 1

    One of the promising features of Real streams is multicast, which, should multicast routing capabilities be widely employed, can offload the Internet a great deal.
    Does any streaming specification exist which makes use of multicast for Ogg or MP3 streams?

    --
    My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
  81. Tell me about it ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back then when i was young and innocent i downloaded all my music in real audio snippets.
    Then i moved to Linux and installed the latest Linux Realplayer.
    One day it poped up something about "out of date" but i didnt find anything new for Linux on the real site. The once working player refused to function..

    it seems mp3 draws the line between free formats and controlled ones...

  82. blah blah blah by lordpixel · · Score: 1

    Firstly, the BBC is not a business. Its a non profit (well, actually, its 2 companies, one of which is non profit, one of which is for profit. I wonder which pays for internet streaming...?)

    Secondly, I doubt they offer technical support on their current Real streams anyway. They're a traditional to air broadcaster, ultimately they don't get any revenue off of Internet streaming anyway. I'm not even clear *why* they do it at all (but I'm damn glad they do).

    Thirdly, I seem to recall having to install real player...

    Fourthly, this is Mac OS where I'm sitting, so I'm not exactly getting Windows Media player installed out of the box either.

    Oh, I see your point, but you overstate the case.

    --

    Lord Pixel - The cat who walks through walls
    A little bigger on the inside than out

  83. Uhhhhhh by Guns+n'+Roses+Troll · · Score: -1

    I post garbage and nonsense every now and then but this is simply unacceptable. Malda, if you're reading this, do yourself a favor and delete this child porn from slashdot.

  84. And no one ever downloaded Napster either. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It all depends on the perceived benefit by the people. For now, I don't think the motivation for Ogg Vorbis is enough, but if the patent infringement crackdowns get big, users could switch to something else.

    It's possible at least.

  85. some clarification and insight by eracerblue · · Score: 1

    wow, so many good issues brought up.

    1. thanks for the support.
    spiffy. it's nice to know that others will rush to my defense when there's a dumbass afoot. and certainly when a response isn't dignified.

    2. sometimes, i'm a dumbass too.

    simulcast n : a broadcast that is carried simultaneously by radio and television (or by FM and AM radio)
    more specifically, multiple Tx's. ie. GPS satellites.(differnt id's yes, but differnt delays from the same master timecode.

    multicast: communication between a single sender and multiple receivers on a network
    a la IPv6

    unicast: communication between a single sender and a single receiver over a network
    a la IPv4 p2p


    so, in a lapse of concentration while passing back into normal space (what you know as 3D reality), i had a slip of the tounge. i meant multicast, a la IPv6. i'm a dumbass.

    nice to know that most of you, that took the time to read what i said, understood what i meant.

    3. my view of codecs.

    is ogg wonderful? why not. is ogg great because it's free & open? sure. rah rah rah. will ogg rock my world? probably not. here's why. after ogg there will be something else. something better. it's evolution baby (PJ rocks!). just like divx/mpeg4 is all the rage for videos today. yesterday it was mpeg2. tomorrow it will be mpeg5.

    4. now some clarification and insight on what needs to be done.

    i picture the different OSI layers like spinning plates (radiohead reference - these musicans know more than they lead on!). the top of the stack of plates is spinning fastest. (layer7: apps, codecs, etc.) the bottom plate is spinning the slowest. (layer1: physical electrical/light impulses). IPv6 kinda covers Network, Transport, & Session layers (3-5). but it influences everything.

    on the top end, we have the apps. all they need is a few changes in code. easy as pie.

    in the middle, we have IPv6. and on towards the bottom we have the phsycal equipment and fiber optic lines. problem is, so much of these lower layers are intermixed. what i mean is, you might think your special because your router is software upgradable to IPv6. but really, to do multicasting right, the whole network topology will need some shuffling. and because those "plates" spin slower and slower towards the bottom... it takes a long time. (kind of ironic that progress along each layer costs about the same)

    and hence, my origional posting about my impatience for all this to happen.


    as usual, google know's all about the mBone.


    cheers.

    1. Re:some clarification and insight by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 2
      I do agree with you that the improvement in OGG is evolutionary. What's really valuable about it is that it's free. But enough people have said that...

      You might be right that there will be a "next big thing" in media compression, but I have a feeling this won't be an endless parade. The problem is that compression is doomed to improve more and more slowly as it approaches the asymptote of "no wasted bits." It used to be possible that with a revolutionary compression scheme, a media file would strike the human senses as being just as accurate as ... plug in a file encoded in some pre-revolutionary standard .... The file in the new standard was, however, only half the size.

      We've seen this a few times, most recently with MPEG4. And I am willing to bet anything that we will never see this again in all the future of humanity. There is just a limit to how much you can compress something, and pretty soon, no one will be able to detect the next step towards maximal compressability. They'll say: hey, bandwith is more available and storage cheaper. I'll just stick with the old standard, even if its files are 15% larger for the same quality.

      That's just how it's gonna be; I honestly think we will have a "last" comression format, which will be tuned tinkered with in a backwards-complatible way (like the brilliant LAME team is doing to MP3). It won't be displaced, because the insentive just won't be there.

      I'm certainly not saything that I think this generation of compression technologies will remain forever; I don't think that. I don't even think the next generation will stand the test of time. However, after that what else would force people to en masse abandon the familiar system and go for something better? It won't be the improvement in quality/bitrate ratio, because that part will just stop improving for all practical intent. So why would people swith?

      Well, I'd be very happy if the Son of Ogg were the music compression default in our long, audio futures.

  86. follow-up by eracerblue · · Score: 1

    thanks for the support.
    follow-up is here

  87. follow-up by eracerblue · · Score: 1

    thanks for the support.
    follow-up is here

    love the stories. and the cool satellite-radio wrist watch. that stuff is exciting. with people like you and i we can make this stuff happen! i'm sure your measure of happiness will be far greater tho. ;)

  88. Nearly the perfect job... by simong · · Score: 1

    I went for a job at BBC R&D last year, who live in Kingswood Warren, a country house in the midst of the Surrey bantustans. The work they do there is amazing, a great opportunity for playing with new toys in the net broadcasting field, as well as hosting the encoders and root broadcast servers for the network (the web servers and the Real network have mirrors on the east and west coast of the States and at Telehouse in London's Docklands among other places). But for travelling (from the East End to the stockbroker belt, and that it was more of a support job than a sysadmin job, it would have been great.
    Their job, among other things, is to get the best value for money possible and the best reach possible. Real are now charging stupid sums for their licensing. RealOne appears to have broken Tara's Real plugin for WinAmp, and the player is appallingly intrusive. Ogg Vorbis is free, everyone with Windows has Media Player, it seems logical. I'll be voting yes if I can listen to Danny Baker on BBC London without Real.

  89. A comment from the BBC by Simon+Lockhart · · Score: 5, Informative

    Thanks for your comments so far - interesting reading! Plenty of conspiracy theories, some close, some way out ;-)

    One of the main reasons we're currently looking at Ogg is that BBC is interested in investigating other solutions than Real (since we started using it 5 years ago, it has been the most widely supported cross platform solution), and rather than get tied into another proprietry solution, we're instead looking for an "open standard" solution, which theoretically could be played in any player. We've looked at MPEG4 and other such solutions, but Ogg has come the closest so far to meeting our requirements.

    Yes, we're also looking at solutions like WMP, but the biggest downside with going for another proprietry solution is that it doesn't really extend our audience (almost everyone who can play WMP can also play Real), and to remain impartial, if we support Real and WMP, why not Quicktime as well. Why not all the other streaming formats (particularly the java-player ones which have become popular again). For each extra format, we have to add another set of encoders, and another set of servers (and whne you consider we've got over 50 encoding chains at the moment...)

    Anyway, I can't promise anything for the future. Maybe Ogg will work for us, maybe not. We've had a lot of positive feedback, which is nice - keep sending it in! The key thing is that it *has* to be easy to use for the end user. We're not talking about techies here, we're talking about all those families who got a PC for Christmas. If we can serve a streaming format which people can play on whatever computer they've got, under whatever OS they run, on whatever connection they've got to the Internet, and it sounds as good as any other solutions, then we've found our ideal solution!

    Simon Lockhart - Internet Engineering Manager, BBC Internet Services

    1. Re:A comment from the BBC by crusher-1 · · Score: 1

      I think using the Ogg Vorbis format is a step in the right direction. Given that it's main focus is to provide a readily avialable format for streaming media that affords one viable alternative to proprietary software. I am a staunch supporter of the OSS. I believe that software should be available in a manner that makes information and technologies available to all regardless of soceioeconomic status, culture, or background. In a world dominated by a monolpoly it becomes increasingly difficult to provide relevant and comprehensive content when evermore amounts of operating capital is spent on the tools rather than on the product the tools are supposed to furnish and make available. My sincere hope is that more media and business interest follow your lead and consider the advantages of using OSS and similar products for their day to day work. Thank you, Curtis Rey.

    2. Re:A comment from the BBC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a licence payer, I'd like to thank you, Mr Lockhart. If a public service organisation supported by licence fees forced their listeners into a monopolist's profit-seeking treadmill I would be up in arms. The BBC has enjoyed a long reputation for openness and impartiality, despite the Dalek-in-chief's fatwas. I am glad that there are some who value the work they do over beancounters' bleatings and "we're going to be an all nt shop" Papal Bulls.

      Lucius Sour

    3. Re:A comment from the BBC by chris_sawtell · · Score: 1

      It sounds beautiful!

      Please could you put up links to program material so that it is simple to compare RealAudio against Ogg. Also how about some stereo Radio 3 so that we can compare the formats with hi-fi program material?

      Pity the sex lesson about snails is censored just at the crucial moment. Most frustrating!

      XMMS-1.2.5 won't start playing a URL correctly unless it is launched from a link on a web page.

      As far as I can tell so far Ogg appears to be a huge improvement over RealAudio!

    4. Re:A comment from the BBC by dgrb · · Score: 1

      As an ex-patriate who misses the BBC (particularly Radio 3) more than anything else about the UK, I heartily concur. Radio 4 sounds great (although catching The Archers when you're 8 hours behind is tricky) but yes, please, let's hear what Radio 3 sounds like. Real Audio is OK, but there is a slightly tinny edge to the sound at 44K which I don't detect with Ogg, although I'm unable to compares apples with apples. Ogg certainly seesm to work very well and, pace the previous message, I can persuade xmms 1.2.5 to add URLs to the playlist and it works just fine. Keep up the good work Auntie!

  90. It's a test so it connects very slowly by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 2
    I thought I was doing something wrong, but you have to give it almost a minute for the stream to start. Maybe it's from all the Slashdotting.

    This is just awesome for two reasons: the BBC online sounds great now. I've been listening to the Real stream for a long while now, and the OGG stream sounds much better. The second reason why this is awesome is because it's a big shot in the arm for OGG. This might be the core of the big snowballing effect that puts OGG on everybody's computer. After that, deciding about what format you stream in should be a no brainer: OGG is free and sounds great and isn't dominated by some nasty US corporate types.

    1. Re:It's a test so it connects very slowly by six809 · · Score: 1

      Actually I can't see a reason for connections to have slowed down so much. First thought: clients acquiring locks on global data in icecast2. Checking it out tho.

  91. Yep by Newer+Guy · · Score: 1

    It varies a bit actually between 42 and 54 kbps at a sampling freq of 44 khz.

    1. Re:Yep by six809 · · Score: 1

      The Radio 4 stream is limited to 44kbps. This is over a window of a few seconds, so you may see peaks that high, but the average over that few seconds should never be higher than that. Radio 1 is similarly bounded, but at 63kbps (should just fit down single channel ISDN with nothing else going on) because it's stereo.

      This bounding is made possible with the new RC3 code currently in CVS - thanks Monty!

  92. How to save a Vorbis stream to disk? by egghat · · Score: 1

    Hi,

    how can one save a scheduled programm to disk, say John Peel?

    Real tries to make this nearly impossible. Is this easier with Vorbis?

    I would really like to listen to the Mighty Mighty Peel ;-) again.

    Bye egghat.

    --
    -- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
  93. IE is a performance DOG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why use the IE operating system when you can just use a browser? IE is McRosoft's .NET portal, and as such must include all its' usual bloat (hidden flight sims, heehee aren't we clever who gives a fuck if it takes the binary over the 3 exabyte mark)
    Sometimes I have to d/l summat from the office box (lose98se). All I can say is that I'm glad to get home to Opera Lin5x or Konqueror. How people put up with such a flaky whale of an inflexible handles-like-a-tanker watch-it-blow-up-in-your-face rushed-out amateur code-rot as the front end for their "O"S beats me. Still, not my problem.

    Lucius Sour