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Probing the Guts Of the Consoles
Max Entropy writes "Finally, an in-depth article of the technologies within the GameCube, PS2, and Xbox. The article covers architectures, processor/memory silicon, I/O, expandability, and storage among a host of other topics." If you are wondering what makes each system distinctive (Besides
the fact that one has about a hundred times as many games, one overheats,
and another has Luigi) this might be worth a read.
is that the Xbox also has an X-10 compatible home automation controller built into the power supply. If you notice, a small serial data cable leads from the motherboard to an area of the supply (the part of the supply farthest from the large capacitors). No software is known to control this yet, though. IIRC the IC that they used will only send signals, not receive them.
With MS's .NET initiative, one can't help but wonder if the concept of a 'home computer' will become entirely redundant. After all, the fact is that .NET will enable traditional tasks performed by applications such as MS Word, Excel etc to be done entirely over the web. With the rise of consoles, this will render the home computer redundant in time.
Another advantage is that consoles are so easy.
I mean, I find Windows and Mac OS X very complicated and difficult to use - I am from a pre-computer generation, and have watched with a little bemusement as these glorified typewriters conquer all.
They are dividing society into two classes, the Digirati, who can understand Computers running super complicated, unintuitive OS's like OS X and Windows, and the disposessed, who just don't understand and never will.
Consoles, by extending their grasp, may remove this knowledge gap by providing a wonderfully simple, hermetically sealed system that can be easily used by everyone, including your granny, and me!
I will welcome the day, I think, I don't like the idea of supercomplex computers running increasingly difficult OS's taking over all simple tasks and dispossessing those with better things to do than understand the impossible complexities of Internet Explorer and Microsoft Word.
I look to Sony, MS and Nintendo to provide a democratic and egalitarean new computing future for all, in which everyone can share.
Now I have a little bit of "proof" I can break out when I want to deprecate the PS2. reading the writeup for the Gamecube, I was struck with how innovative the design seemed. Of the three, it seems the most traditional in function and intention, but it achieves that with the usual Nintendo pizazz. It'd be a pity if the Gamecube failed to capture a significant market share.
Pax Digitalia
The article claims that the PS2 cannot play DVDs without the remote control, which is not true. It can play them just fine without. The XBox, however, cannot. It's not that bad of an article, just not objective enough.
The Gamecube CPU doesn't quite have Altivec like a G4, but it does have something pretty useful for racing through matrix multiplies; data prefetching and paired single operations. Paired Single operations simply use the FPU to work on two singles instead of a double. For graphics and physics and most math intensive operations this essentially doubles the performance.
Looking at the specs it doesn't seem that special. But when you develop for it you'll be impressed. In many ways it is clearly the best console.
Of course that can be said about any of them...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have not heard a thing about production xboxes off the shelf that are overheating. In fact, I have not seen anything about overheating, BSODs occuring at all.
Editors, if you have any evidence for your allegations, please provide them, otherwise you look just like bitter fools spreading FUD.
"The shoot-'em-up game genre, popular in the past, is losing its appeal as television viewers behold the horror of real-life war on the evening news. What game genres will replace it is less clear"
HUH!?! I beg to differ. Too many people have asked me about playing Q3, Half-Life, and UT online in the last few weeks. Since the prices of pc's have dropped and broadband availibility growing in my city, more and more people are wanting to "shoot'em up" online. (Oops, forgot to mention that the price of those games have dropped recently.)
I have had the xbox since it was released, and it has not 'overheated' once. The only time it did anything out of the ordinary was with the Obi-wan game, and I've heard reports from a couple other people of seeing the occasional fluke with the game. So please don't make generalized statements claiming the xbox overheats all the time, when in fact, I think you'll notice that the production xbox is very, very stable.
"I drank what?" -Socrates
boy, guess someone's bias against microsoft runs real deep, doesn't it .. i've had my xbox on since nov 15th practically, not one GSOD, not one crash, and no overheating.
and that whole harddrive/memory card thing is a great idea, imo.
"At first they were simple gaming machines, now they focus on email, broadband, DVD playing, web browsing, etc etc"
:) There have been consoles before with laser disk support though.
Bah.. Yes, at first in 1972 they were just that. But hey, the Odessy only had 40 transistors/resistors/diodes and the "computer" world was a bit different then.
Current gen:PS2 has planned NIC/HD and can play online (check the back of the PS2 version of Tony Hawk 3 next time you're in a software store!). GC has broadband/56K support on Nintendo's page. The Xfl-box has a built in NIC. DC has 56K support.
Previous: Saturn had an official modem and all that email, web, stuff, just not the DVD
Previous to that: the 3DO was going to be a multimedia box every household needed. Before that in the late 80s/early 90s Commodore tried the CDTV for multimedia stuff and had Nolen Bushnell promoting it.
Previous: SNES and Genesis had the Xband modem for games and "email". Again there was planned modems, etc that never shipped. Still Nintendo etc always have those expansion slots-just incase. There was a CD-ROM add on for many of these era consoles so you didn't need to buy a seperate cd player to listen to the new music format..
During the NES era Nintendo partnered with AT&T to allow users to do banking/stock trading online through their NES! 10,000 homes were hooked up for a test in Minnesota and for $10 a month they could play the state's lotteries online.
In 1983 there was the CVC Gameline (used a catridge with a 1200baud modem with 8K of ram) for the Atari 2600 that offered news, stocks, "electronic mail", and banking services to 2600 owners. And you could download games for $1 each and keep them until you turned your system off.
Game consoles have always been "simply gaming machines" until there is enough of them people's homes to be something else. What MS is doing is nothing different than what has been going on for the last few decades.
Is anyone else tired of /. posting every single console hardware review? It doesnt really matter anyway, how many polygons each machine can pump.
Games matter. Instead of wasting time, I suggest you go to www.gamespot.com and take a good long look at the list(s) of games of each console, read the unbiased reviews, stare at pictures and movies, and then decide which console is coolest.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
The article is pretty good overall but lacks a major component. GRAPHICS performance (duh)!. It has one paragraph telling us something about multitexturing (guess which box? it starts with an 'x'), high polygon performance to render some cute girlees hair (rrrright), anti alliasing (same 'x'), anisotropic filtering ('x'), writing z-buffer optimised code (goes for all graphics software), if multiple lighting and transforming calculations can be offloaded of the main CPU (xbox again, sorry). It doesn't even mention other texturing tricks that we are allready used to on the PC. Environmentmapping, bumpmapping, etc. (damn impressive in Halo on my xbox).
I would recommend those that want a deeper analysis of why the xbox is the graphics gaming console of the future (verses these other boxes) to have a good look at what DX8 brought us. Hint: vertex shading and pixel shading.
Oh, and Mr CmdrTaco, get with the program:
- PS2 has more games, yes. 425 PS1 + PS2 combined titles. Xbox has about 40 now and that list is growing fast. 100x...whatever
- Overheating? Don't pull a 'the prerelease box was rumoured to overheat' kinda bull on this forum please
- Luigi??? Abe farts in the fase of Luigi! In more colors, with surround sound and at 1080i
LINUX (kernel 0.9) SUCKS!!
If by "one" you mean the XBOX, then you are either a liar or an idiot. I purchased an XBOX and have not yet turned it off, indeed I have hardly stopped playing it (that includes 18 straight hours of Halo, during which I beat the game), and it has yet to overheat. In fact, the box itself is not uncomfortably cool (although it is noticeably warm to the touch), but the gameplay does not slow down. Only someone with 17 fans on their Athlon would think the XBOX overheats. Perhaps you editors should only post what you know, rather than whatever might make people think that Microsoft looks bad. Your propaganda battle is pointless, because you're preaching to the choir, who largely don't matter.
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
Wow, I've found quite the opposite. A friend of mine has an N64 and now a Game Cube, and while there's a lot of kiddie games, there's a whole lot of what I'd call "social games." Games that are genuinely fun, with decent graphics, that are best played with at least three or four people.
These are the games that are actually fun, and aren't the kind that you only play locked up in a dark room all night by yourself. Of course, knowing slashdot, there are probably very few people here who would actually agree that being social is a good thing.
- j
This article at cnn http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/fun.games/12/27/video .games.sales.reut/index.html states "Games for the Sony PlayStation 2 platform held eight of the top-20 sales spots and represented five of the 10 best-selling titles over that period, according to market research firm, The NPD group." A game will still suck even on a 10ghz processor
http://www.kubuntu.org/
The BSODs and GSODs you hear of are actually not true. The "GSOD" you saw online is actually a disc error (inserting the wrong type of disc) into the XDK, not even the final Xbox (Next time you see it, check out the bottom).
If the Xbox crashes or freezes, you don't get ANY type of message. It'd just lock up (read the documentation). Same as the other consoles.
So somehow I actually doubt your "number of friends" got GSODs in games.
I've had my Xbox since launch day: No crashes, no freezes, no problems, and certainly no overheating.
When I want single player FPS action, I'll play games on my PC, where I have a mouse, keyboard, cable modem and an excellent 21" Sony Trinitron monitor. So far, the dark and gritty games are still done best on the PC, and this seems to be the major targets of the XBox and PS2.
Enter Gamecube, a system with games that are commonly colourful and very party oriented. If I'm going to be playing console games, I want to play them with my friends around a big TV. When I pick up my Gamecube, I'm definately grabbing Super Monkey Ball and Super Smash Bros. along with three additional controllers.
As a PC Gamer, I see the XBox and PS2 for people who don't have near top of the line PC hardware. I see the Gamecube's function as being something a bit different, and it's very attractive. I can't get that over here.
Besides, it looks like we're going to see some impressive first party titles. Is it possible not to be interested in a Zelda game on mass storage media for the first time?
Game cube commercials are already touting a new Mario + friends mortal combat style fighting game. I truly think you need to be 11 to get a kick out of that.
It looks like you're talking about Super Smash Brothers Melee, which is perhaps the greatest 4-player action game ever created. This game is a blast to play, as I can personally attest, and has gotten universally excellent reviews.
A good game is a good game, period, whether you wrap the gameplay in Mario Brothers graphics or ultra-realistic motion-capped characters with digitized skin. Apparently you prefer style (realistic images!) over actual gameplay to the point where you'll overlook a true gem of a games!
I'll agree with you that the N64's library was pathetic compared to the other systems. However, I had to take you to task for overlooking a true gem of a game just becase of cartoony graphics.
Also, consider this: N64 developers were hampered by having to use rom-based catridges when everyone else was using optical storage. Now, they don't have that restriction. It's too early to tell who's going to have the best games, but don't count Nintendo out yet.
OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
FWIW the DVD remote for the X-box is exactly the same as for the RCA5215 DVD player. The only difference is colors of the button and the fact that the power button on the RCA = the "Display" button on X-box.
Of course, you still need the little receiver to plug into one of the controller ports on the X-boxy, but this could be useful to know if you want to use a universal remote on the X-box for some reason.
You should see drops around March/April, if history holds. I'll point out, as well, that a brand new Dreamcast is now 80 dollars Canadian, while a brand new Playstation 1 is over 100 dollars.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Why?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a toy-freak, but I'm having trouble thinking up uses for it: Alter the lighting to suit the game mood? Turn on the coffee maker when game-play lags? Signal the robot to get me another bheer? If you lose the next level, the goldfish loses life-support? Control those 22,000V chair electrodes for realistic game play?
It's cool, but I don't see what problem it's supposed to solve. (And I'd have to think twice before buying an X-10 module after those damned camera ads. How's that for negative advertising!)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Disclaimer: I work for GameSpy
I've found that, for reviews, the best place to go is http://www.gamespy.com/reviews, and here's why: 95% of our reviews are outsourced just to prevent biasedness.
But what about the long term? As far as hardware goes, the PS was actually inferior to the N64, but won out in the long run after everyone knew how to program for it and create (at least aesthetically) better games. The fact that it's medium had 10 times more storage than the N64 is not why it won out, as many will testify; the fact that it was easier to program for becuase of the fact that size was literally not a problem (Final Fantasy, anyone?) opened the door to developers to pump out whatever game they could get approved. Where as the PS has practically countless games for it, almost all of the games for the N64 are generally good if not high-quality. That being the past, look at the race now. A 3-horse race, 2 of them similair and 1 lame. The fact that both the XBox and the PS2 can play DVD's has everyone wowed and blurry-eyed. The fact that the N64 had twice the bits of the PS accomplished much the same thing. I think that Nintendo's focus on pure gaming and affordability will win out in this one, as it did with Sony in the previous round.
Of all the Universal Constants, here's one I know: Nice guys finish last
S.Monkey Ball and Smash Bros. are why I had to buy extra controllers. :)
:)
No wonder the GC can lay claim to the "best reason to have friends" award.
(Don't count out the PS2, though. There are a few PS2 exclusive titles that you really should play.)
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
The article also states that the Xbox and the GC supports 4 controllers, while the PS2 only supports two.
This is not true. If you buy the Multitap (see here) you can play 1-5 players, buy one more and you can play 1-8 players!
I like my PS2, it's a shame that the games are so DAMN expensive!
Oh, and I agree, the article was one of the better I've read! Took a while to read it, but it was great!
Any technology distinguishable from magic, is insufficiently advanced.
A friend of mine toured local retailers before Christmas - and he was told by them that they were seeing a 37% approx failure rate on XBoxes.
This may have been BS to cover for them having no stock but it seems like a bad way to sell something to me.
Will you personally buy a game cube? If you answer yes to this one you'll be the only one I know who will.
Get out a little more. They've sold a million of the things. By the way, great argument there. My dad can beat up yours.
I think I represent the average gamer and I want strategy games, fighting games, REALISTIC images, great audio.
Nah, the average gamer wants The Sims and Pokemon.
I want games to move me and scare me. I especially don't want Mario this or Luigi that.
Fair enough, but if you're going to speak for the average gamer, keep in mind that Nintendo sold about a billion dollars worth of software in 2000. Their closest competitor? EA, with under 500 million. Keep in mind that EA publishes games on all platforms and that Nintendo is restricted to their own. And in case you're wondering, those numbers don't include hardware, it's just the games. Doesn't sound like the average gamer is agreeing with you so far.
Game cube commercials are already touting a new Mario + friends mortal combat style fighting game. I truly think you need to be 11 to get a kick out of that.
Yeah, you definitely need to be eleven. Like last night, I was playing Smash Brothers with my roommate and two friends and it was so fun that we played for about two hours. Then I remembered that we're all over 24 so we threw that game out. I don't know what Gamespot was thinking when they put it in the top ten console games of the year, because I'm pretty sure their editors are over 11 (although sometimes it's a tough call). Good thing, we stopped playing, though, so we could move on to a game that lets you drive one of these armed cycles on some huge courses and blow your friends up.
But I'll admit that the Gamecube's graphics aren't that great, like that Rogue Leader game. I mean, did they really think anyone would want to play a game with graphics like this?
And in fighting games, we'll put aside the fact that you're superficial and clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I know Kirby and Pikachu are cute as all get out, but the fighting system in SSB is way more fun than DOA3's. And if that's not enough for you, Soul Calibur 2, successor to the real king of 3D fighters (OK, fine, Virtua Fighter rules, too), will be exclusive to the GameCube when it first arrives.
Speaking of realism, did you know that the water in Wave Race: Blue Storm, an amazingly addictive racing game with a tight control system, was so good, that Gamespot created a new category in their year end awards for it?
Oh, right, and you want to be scared. So, how about four Resident Evil games and Eternal Darkness? Is that enough blood for you, mister sophisticated mature gaming man?
I've got a GameCube, a Playstation 2, and a Dreamcast (which, as far as I'm concerned, still has the best catalog of games around), couldn't be happier.
My other
Where'd you see that price for a dreamcast? Been thinking about picking one up (Virtual On, Powerstone II, and Sonic II are not to be missed, not to mention 4-player Marver vs Capcom)
How about a Slashdot review on how the hell you plug all of these game consoles into your existing video system? :P
Seeing how the article makes blatant mistakes (the PS2 does not, in fact, require an extr remote to play DVD, nor does it require extra consoles to play with more than two players, its got an optionnal multi-tap for that), I'm wondering how many more subtle mistakes it makes in the less easily verified points: Numbers, architecture descriptions, etc.
And I reiterate: The GAMES are the important thing.
Xbox has nothing worth buying it (ooo, halo, big freakin' deal) while PS2 has Metal Gear Solid 2 (greates game of all time???), the Game Cube has super monkey ball (come on! A monkey in a ball? You can't get any more fun!), an pikmin and more coming.
I bought a PS2...I'm thingking about a game cube, but xbox is NOT interesting.
You can't take the sky from me...
Microsoft is just trying to create a closed pc where they can control everything. The XBox is an evil machine, even the name 'X' is evil, what does it mean? why 'X'? are they trying to hide something? Also, everyone knows that the XBox crashes all the time and that it overheats because there is a hampster fused with a plutonium core inside which they can use to make a nuclear device, i've seen the plans!!!
10 years on, and Microsoft's XBox is the industry standard. After the system was reverse engineered by an independent party, the market opened up for XBox 'clones' also known as Microsoft Compatables. These clones were produced by 3rd parties but the OS and DRM systems were provided by Microsoft - Because of the wide software base (Microsoft bought up Sony in 2004), the 3rd parties wanted to maintain compatibility with the Microsoft OS, and, because it was law in America, the Digital Rights Management System had to be provided by an approved company - either Microsoft or AOL/Time Warner. On the other side Nintendo provided their range of computers - the Polyhedron series. However no-one took them seriously except artists and writers.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Well, think about this... You're talking about "social" games for 3-4 people. Well, to play with that many people at the same time, you'd have to have someone bring another console and connect 'em. That's fine, but wouldn't you think that the people interested in doing this would already be the kind of people who AREN'T social, or if they are, it's only for a Quake frag-fest? I couldn't imagine a bunch of geeks getting together to play some Mario, Luigi, or Pokemon game together.
Future Shop. Walmart has them for under a hundred, too. All prices Canadian, of course. futureshop.ca has them for 69.99 which is, of course, less than your average game for a current system. And don't forget Jet Grind Radio and Space Channel 5.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
cube.ign.com has a great interview with two of the designers of the chip, and it's really informative. Part 2 is even better, where they talk about the competition's chips :)
The interviews really shed some light onto the chip's functionality; it's engineered for gaming and a far cry from the off-the-shelf XBox CPU. Additionally, they mention that IBM detailed the chips at Hot Chips and the Embedded Processor Forum. Can anyone dig that info up?
Moderators should have to take a reading comprehension test.
The XBox seems unsuitable for general home control, since it can't do home control and run a game at the same time. So that's out.
A "Parental Interrupt" button would be a cute feature. Sell an X10 sender with a button on it as an accessory. When Mom pushes a button, it pauses any currently playing games and displays "Dinner", or some such message. But support for this would have to be in disks already distributed, so it's too late.
It's hard to do much with X10 blind, because the control modules are pure receivers; you can't query them. You could send "All Lights On" or "All Lights Off" to all 256 house codes, but that's about it.
Are you sure the XBox supports only X10, and not CEBus, LonWorks, or something else more advanced?
I just got an Xbox and I am quite happy with it.. except for one thing: It does over heat. While playing a great game of Project Gotham after finishing a one on one with a Skyline (with my Ford Focus lol) it just froze on the loading screen... I havent had this problem with other games I have but its quite annoying...
Let it be known that I don't really have any axe to grind for any particular system. I'm an avid gamer, and I like all three systems.
That said, the xbox runs hot and is prone to nervous breakdowns. The nearby Toys R Us received a Xbox kiosk about mid-november. When I came by on December 1, I noticed the Green Screen of Death. According to an employee, it was the *second* Xbox to bite the dust since they got the kiosk.
Same story at Game Crazy. The system would go for a few minutes and die (regardless of the game). Same with Fry's Electronics. And Gamestop.
So, while one incident would be enough to dismiss, I have seen enough fried xboxes to assume that something is up with the first batch (or at least the batch that retailers where getting for demos).
Alot of people have faulted the kiosk for poor cooling. The kiosk has *three* cooling fans, and the xbox has about 3 inches of clearance on any side. Far better than what you typically see with consoles in the home. Furthermore, I have only ever seen one fried PS2 kiosk, and haven't seen a dead N64/Dreamcast/Gamecube kiosk *ever*. I don't buy the kiosk excuse. I do think there are alot of zealots who like to play up Microsofts misteps, but the overheat issue is for real.
ps: What sadist designed the xbox controllers?
and it scared the hell out of me.
I've never seen such a revisionist and clueless pile of drivel in my life.
I have to apologize to euroderf, if not for any other reason than the fact that he has his own opinion and is welcome to it. I however do not agree with him.
Here are some excerpts from the website and it's articles - not verbatim:
Microsoft created object oriented programming.
Microsoft concieved a workable internet when no one else could.
Microsoft has the common man at the core of it's heart.
All linux users are hackers and zealots.
All linux users hate Microsoft because they charge for software.
Windows95 was written in Visual Basic.
Microsoft is the saviour of the common man when it comes to computers. Trust them(tm)
etc... etc... etc... ad infinitum.
What I want to know is if he ACTUALLY believes what he writes or is he trying to deliberately misleed Joe Public?
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
That's not to say that Nintendo has a monopoly on these games, but they do have the most, since four player games never did well on the PSX because the 4-way hardware wasn't standard. I haven't looked much at the new consoles, but the XBox has a decent 4-way party game in Fuzion Frenzy, a game obviously designed with that sole purpose in mind.
Mind you, if everyone present is going to be a gamer geek, fighting games are a good substitute for the 4-way party game, but they don't provide much entertainment if there will be non-gamers, alcohol or females around.
To sum it all up, the key traits of good party game are:
I think that cuteness (or at least low-violence) is a bonus. GoldenEye and Tekken were OK party games, but Mariokart was a great one.
my sig's at the bottom of the page.
I just thought I would put in my 2 cents on this...
I bought a gamecube at launch cause I am a longtime nintendo supporter and wanted to try it out. I bought Rogue Leader, Tony Hawk 3, and Super Smash Brother Melee. Rogue Leader is a great game, but the PS2 version of tony hawk 3 gets better reviews across the board and the gamecube port has some serious issues (slowdown on certain levels)....
Super Smash Brothers is good as well but not something I would play a lot by myself... so when I sat back and looked at the situation I realized there were a good dozen games I want to play on PS2 but just not that much out for gamecube yet. I realize this was the problem with PS2 at launch as well but in my impatience I have switched over to PS2. I may buy a gamecube later down the line but not just yet.
In other words, I don't really think for a lot of us the features and graphical abilities are the most important thing... its purely who has the best games at the moment.
Read "there has still been some COMMERCIAL development." As far as a Dreamcast hacking/development community goes, that's where the real action's gonna be for DC in the future.
The beauty of the DC is this:
Someone's gotta step up to the plate and build a reverse-engineered Broadband Adapter. There are too many DCs out there and too much demand, particularly amongst geeks, for that not to happen. The v90 dialup modem that comes with the box is pretty damn good as dialup modems go, btw.
It is more than likely that there will be DC development going on for years into the future. Buy a DC now, and it will indeed have a future. Also RIGHT NOW it has Unreal Tournament, Quake III, Soul Calibur 2 and on and on.
Don't take my word for it...drop in at these sites and see what's going on for yourself:
http://mc.pp.se/dc/
http://www.fivemouse.com/dclinux.html
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
The problem is that people are claiming it is an off-the-shelf G3, which it's far from. Of course the coure is going to be G3- it's by far and wide most suitable/best PowerPC they have for this. The first rev G4s were barely more than G3s with an AltiVec unit.
Moderators should have to take a reading comprehension test.
Anyone else irritated by the senseless use of PDF documents for their figures and references?
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)