Slashdot Mirror
California City Issues Internet Cafe Moratorium
DarkZero writes: "The Sacramento Bee is reporting that the City Council of Garden Grove, California has issued a 45 day moratium on internet cafes following a fatal stabbing and several other crimes, with the justification that internet cafes are "improperly supervised environments" that very large groups of minors frequent daily (mostly to play games), and that a lot of gang violence has cropped up because of this. Another new restriction is that minors may not stay in any internet cafe past 8PM on a school night, though it isn't clear whether or not that restriction will be lifted after the 45 day period." The New York Times has a similarly breathless story, emphasizing the violence of games played at such cafes.
Doesn't minors have civil rights?
Clearly, we need greater accountability and responsibility on the internet. Enough planes have been hijacked, buildings blown up, children threatened and women raped to show that unlicensed, unmonitored, anonymous internet usage (made even easier with Internet Cafes) to show that's it's like carrying around an unregistered handgun, just too dangerous to allow anymore.
Good riddance I say. If you can't afford a PC and phone line for browsing ( a perfectly adeqate Pentium will do, and you can buy one for under $100), go to a public library for surfing under the watchful eyes of concerned librarians.
Another great example of parenting by proxy. We can't control our kids so we'll let the government do it for us. To me, if these are violent kids to start out (which it sounds like) then we should be glad they are focusing their anger on video games and not out on the streets.
Hopefully after 45 days they will open up the cafes again with some proper supervision and this won't be another Indianpolis.
Roads were closed in California because they make people prone to anger and violence.
I already noticed this like 10 years ago after noticing the increase in cannabalism due to mrs. pacman.
I intend to live forever, so far so good.
All these instituted regulations on minors remind me of the fundamental flaw that is at work here.
Namely, if it is so important for said minors to not be playing violent video games after 8 PM in the evening, then where are the parents? If you want to replace parents with government, then just say so and call the modern family a failure.
I doubt "the Internet" has anything to do with this issue. It's just another thing for kids to do. Movie theaters were probably thought to be similar breeding grounds for dissoluteness back in the 1920s when the problem was really that the parents didn't care enough about what their children were doing.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
One of the new restrictions will be that minors not accompanied by a parent or legal guardian may only stay at the cafes until 8 p.m. Sundays through Thursdays. Fridays and Saturdays they can stay unaccompanied until 10 p.m., city spokeswoman Kathy Moore said.
That solves it! So what do you think these youngsters are going to go do after they get booted out at 8/10 p.m.? I assure you, they won't be going home for bed-time. This just gives the kids a few extra hours to get even more bored--just think of all the stabbings they could accomplish with all this new free time.
Good to see government still knows how to protect the children.
I wish just for once.. i could read about a problem with kids and hear about a solution instead of some rediculous feel good legislation.. For gods sake help these kids.. become mentors.. work on getting better parenting for them. Solve the F*cking problem! Making them leave an internet cafe is brilliant?! So they walk down to the local park, field, parking lot.. and kill each other there. The people in charge don't care enough to do anything that would make a positive difference so they do something.. just so they cant be accused of doing nothing. It disgusts me.
Yeah, let's get violence off the computer screens and put it back on the street where it belongs.
Of course, the amusing part fo the story is that the mayor ran on a platform warning voters that without him, the town would turn into a police state [ocweekly.com].
goats.com: better than
Following a violent incident in California grocery stores, the state has issued a 60-day moratorium on eating.
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
Obviously the gang members are violent because they play games about violence. It's highly unlikely that gang members might be violent because of social/economic reasons.
Clearly if we take away the violent games, gang members will have more free time for doing the activities that gang members are known for. Namely attacking other gang members and acts of violence.
Gang members don't need games to have a reason to attacking each other. They can use any excuse handy.
"After all, when adults shoot each other they don't blame Tony Bennett." - Don Imus
Intercarve Networks, LLC
we'd be listening to repetitive electronic music in a darkened environment, munching pills!
Singapore, which touts itself as the e-capital of asia came very close to banning internet cafes and in particular half - life due to the "violent nature" of the games.
Officially the government cited "incidents" where gangs would resolve their problems with a game of counterstrike rather than a good old fashioned fist fights as the reason for banning (temporarily) internet cafes
However the rumored reason is that an official high in the ministry of education had a son who was performing badly at school (school is very very important here) and blamed the poor grades on time spent playing half life. After going to confront the owner of the internet cafe his son frequented, a shouting match ensured in which the official declared that he would ban internet cafes and half - life. Sure enough it happened soon after. Thats how the cookie crumbles in a one party state
In India, it was the burgeoning growth of the ubiquitous cybercafe that brought about more or less, a revolution. True, it was the novelty of seeing and listening to an entirely different medium but as the rage caught on, people and the government began to realize the potential reach of these cybercafes so much so that for some time, it was even subsidized. Today, India isn't far off from having near-complete access to the Internet, something quite unimaginable a few years ago.
Of course, perceptions vary soon as we take America as a case study. The cybercafe culture has come to symbolize a pseudo-liberation of a youth both from the family as well as from reality. Significantly, it is usually the adolescents in a confused period who throng to these places. Even though, hard-core First Amendment fanatics might come to criticize this move, it is necessary at least temporarily, to enforce peace and order.
I used to work for a company that would break every Friday at 3 to play UnrealTournament or HalfLife. Two hours of every week we'd spend splattering eachother's body parts across digital walls and floors. A good time was had by all. And when the boss stopped paying us because he'd wasted all the company funds, we simply walked away, and called our lawyers. We didn't kill him, like we had done so many Fridays in the digital universe - we didn't even give him a severe pounding (which he sorely deserved). Somehow, despite the excellent sound and graphics of the game, we still seemed to grasp the difference between the game and reality.
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -- "Step Right Up", Tom Waits
Internet cafe has now turned into a modern day, high tech arcade. They should not have to do anything different from a arcade owner. If an arcade owner has to apply for a license, so should internet cafe. If an arcade has to abide by a certain regulation, so should the internet cafe. However, extra burden should not be place on the internet cafe because it is modern and may seem different.
That's what I find troubling with a lot of new regulations coming out. There are a number of prior laws that could be used to cover the computer industry but they often make new laws specifically targetted at it. Remember, computers are only another tool.
_______________________________
"I'm not Conceited...I'm just a realist..."
(c. 1923) Police in an unamed mertoplitan area banned all sale of alcohol, after noting its' strong correlation to domestic crimes. "People expect the police to protect them," a spokesperson said. "We can't do that if these crime-enducing liquors are on sale."
Wow, you'd think people could learn from history. Two things may be related, but changing one doesn't neccessarily change the other (cause & effect).
Do you like Japanese imports?
It beats walking the streets in a gang actively looking for stuff to steal and people to beat up.
Now that they're kicking the minors out early and extending the hours, that leaves 6 hours for the old folks to frag each other instead of getting fragged to oblivion by twelve-year-olds!
Let's not knee-jerk in response to this either. It's one town, not the whole state, and it appears to be in response to a real problem they're having. They've put a time limit on the moratorium, with a mandate to revisit and re-evaluate the issue in 45 days. That gives them some time to come up with a more measured response.
Maybe increased police patrols in those areas to deal with the bad guys, so that the good guys can go on living life as normal, surfing their net, etc. Maybe something completely different.
If, after the 45 day trial period, they maintain the restrictions, then let's complain. But let's not deride them just because they reacted to a real problem in their community. After all, if the gangs have moved in and become violent in and around the net cafes, that means the geeks are probably being restricted already. I know I'd stick out like a sore thumb with a sign on it that said "beat me to a pulp and steal my lunch money."
Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
were playing Counterstrike then being booted out of a cybercafe at 8pm and hanging out on the streets.
Garden Grove is not an area I would want to hang out in after dark. The fact that the kids are playing games probably has nothing to do with the violence. If you simply have a bunch of hoodlums haning out, there will be a problem, no matter what it is that they are doing.
On the other hand, if you want to go to Garden Grove during the day, you can get some tasty Chinese or Vietnamese food. It is actually a cool place to go shopping at as long as you are in a well lighted area.
I wonder why a newspaper in Sacramento is running a story about it....I doubt they could accuratly report about any happenings in GG since Sacramento has to be about 700+ miles away.
Try reading the article instead of making assumptions from the title and summary.
Not once in the article does any governmental or authority figures claim a link between the gang violence and video game violence.
Rather, the concern is over having an area where a large number of minors gather, while having virtually no method of enforcing security. Sure, the solution doesn't seem like a very good one, but this topic is relevant to Slashdot just because the internet is mentioned?
wasn't it ruled unconsitutional to have cerfews for kids?
I mean city imposed ones... isn't that like the same thing?
-- Note: These Comments are Generated by ME! Not You! ME!
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
Back in the days of the Cold War there was a joke that went like this:
In a very real sense, the Internet will come to be viewed as the ultimate secret weapon. Information is very hard to control, and free access to information is a serious threat to the despot. The Chinese and the Saudis both fear free access to information--they're sufficiently connected to the rest of the world to know that they can't simply disconnect their people from the Internet, but they're trying very hard to prevent access to "bad information." The Chinese, in particular, are cracking down on Internet cafes (here's an article from the official People's Daily, a slightly different perspective from the Digital Freedom Network).
An effective way to attack injustice is publicity--and an effective retort is to say, "oh, but [name other country] is doing it too--we agree completely." In this case, the Chinese and the Saudis can loudly and publicly proclaim their agreement with "the Americans" and continue tightening the screws on their citizens access to information.
One of the great strengths of America is that any clown can run for elective office. One of the great weaknesses of America is that so many clowns manage to get elected.
It's disappointing that they're not going after the real problem, gangs, and are instead treating all youths as a problem. But then this isn't new either. I remember well seeing signs "No more than 2 students in the store at a time" or "All school bags must be left outside" and so on as a teenager. The significant difference is that the local government is making the regulations. A private store should probably be allowed to do this, but for the government to do it should be unconstitutional, its directly squashing the right to free assembly. Of course that doesn't matter, juveniles can't vote, most adults have carefully excised any memory at all of what it was like to be a teenager.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
I, like many others, have already stuck the boot in with a sarcastic comment about this turn of events.
However, could there not be a link between on-line "clans" and off-line "gangs"? Where rivalry and competition on-line spills over into violence and bloodshed in the real world? After all, this has happened elsewhere in the world before, as reported by slashdot.
While slashdotters will bitch and moan about this because they are quick to jump to conclusions this moratorium comes after several internet (cafe) related crimes in Southern California in the past couple months. A UC Irvine student raped and killed a teenage girl he met online a couple months ago. Then the stabbing of the guy recently. This is a moratorium on any NEW establishments opening in Garden Grove for 45 days while other provisions say minors not accompanied by an adult have to leave after 8pm on days where the next day is a school day (Sunday - Thursday) and 10pm on Friday and Saturday. It sucks it had to happen because it means not enough parents are keeping tabs on their fucking kids. The cafes themselves also aren't charging people anything to be on the property so people are inclined to hang out for free which is just a welcome sign for people you'd just as soon not have around.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Last year, I use to visit the internet cafes (though these are in NYC) pretty often. I, like most other people, went to play Counter-Strike.
When one or two first opened around my place, they were relatively quiet, filled with kids who would rather be out with friends playing a game than sitting at home doing it.
But then they started getting pretty popular. Soon, we'd all go in and almost all the computers would be taken up.
And when you played, kids would truly get violent. You'd make a kill on someone and they'd get up out of their seat and start saying stuff like "Yo! Who da fuck is _______ (insert username of person who just killed him here)"
The thing is, you can't just go about banning these places because of these assholes. Unfortunately, there is normally only one person supervising the place and they normally try to avoid doing anything but collecting the 3 dollars a hour you pay.
At first, when I read about the 45 day stall, I was kinda taken aback. But now that I look at it, it's appropriate. It's not permanent. It gives these places a month and a half to hire more staff, or security, or what else is going to be needed. It's really unfortunate that this stuff is needed in the first place, but kids apparently can't take a game.
One other thing: To say it's the game itself that causes violence is bullshit. Absoutely bullshit. If this is the reason the restriction is being placed, then you better do it to all competition. Gangs are formed there too, except they're called "teams".
They key to competition is having it supervised tightly so it never gets out of hand. As lame as that sounds, it's the fault of kid's my age that brought it to that.
Moral Panic regularly shows it's ugly head.
...and sometimes the consequenses can be really, really horrible.
It tends to hit all new, and all youth related trends in society.
For example, every single new kind of music since the renaisance(sp?) has been accused of courrupting the youth. (Jazz, Rock, Rap...) Not to mention, comics, novels, violent movies etc.
There is a very obvious pattern of finding scapegoats for complex issues. This is probably as old as man, and very hard to get rid of.
Fact is that scapegoating is a easy way to analyze a problem. Of course it's not accurate, but people tend to like simple explanations. And if you think you have an explanation to a problem it makes the consequenses of the problem less frightening.
For example, the statements:
Children kill eachother because they play too much quake!
Al Quaida bombed us because Bin Laden is evil incarnate!
Makes people feel good, because they see a clear cause to the problem, an easy fix, and most importantly:
It's not their responsability! It makes people feel good that it is not their fault.
They don't want to hear things like:
People join Al Quaida because their lives suck so much they think it makes sense. They blame you for their misery, partly based on that you have (for example) bombed at least one country in the middle east region every decade for some time now. If you or your family got beaten wouldn't you consider the person on the other end of the stick an enemy? With a different US foreign policy Bin Laden might not have (m)any followers.
This statement is probably at least equally true to the statement of Bin Laden being Evil. But for the reasons above it will obviously gather less followers.
I think this is just a basic flaw in humans and the only way to deal with it is to be aware of it, and show some healthy skepticism about overly simple solutions to complex problems.
Because they don't work.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
Regulation will solve it? Licensing will solve it?
Come on. How about considering the option that the person responsible for the teenager should be held liable to the full extent of the law.
Don't make cigarette shops card a teenager, don't make internet cafes card a teenager, don't make ANY commercial or private individual become a watchdog for the government or a parents -- because that's how we've become a nanny state.
Parents are lazy because they feel they don't need to parent anymore. Instead of watching TV with their kids, they can set their V-chip to "Rated G" and forget about it. Instead of browsing the web with their kids, they can install software, in hopes it will work 100%. Instead of finding out why their kids weren't home by 10, and grounding them for a month or three, they can hope the government will regulate a coffee house, arcade, net cafe, whatever. Instead of searching their teen's jackets and drawers looking for drugs or cigarettes, they can rely on the nanny state.
I say get rid of all regulations like these, and lets finally force parents to do the job they are responsible for: parenting.
Oh boy, not another death where a bunch of people get together?
While it is sad, the loss of human life, this had absolutely jack shit to do with the location. Anywhere a large group of young people (hell even middleaged people) gather, there is a good chance someone will get hurt or killed. It's human nature. Putting a moratorium on the i-net cafes won't do a damned thing.
Sheesh
Sent from your iPad.
Mod me the fuck down, if you dare:
US minors are not responsible, but they can be sentenced to death. Almost no other country in the world does that. Way to go, USA!
US adults below 21 cannot drink alcohol, but they can serve and get killed in the army. Way to go, USA!
Things never really change. I remember the same arguments about video arcardes when I was a kid. The thing is anywhere teens hang around* will attract negative parental/adult attention since the teens will experiment with alot of things that make adults uncomfortable. Gangs, sex, drugs, violence (etc) have always been around and probably always will.
* excluding certain pre-approved places where adults are welcome (eg. sports games) or that seems innocuous (eg. school or music classes)
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
I imagine you think it's not government's job to tell teenagers that gang violence is not a natural part of life...it's the parents' job, and if they don't get it done, too bad!
If the parents haven't raised the kids right, there is damned little chance anyone else will be able to reach them -- and gov't bureaucrats are the least effective of all. In fact, they are probably a big part of the problem.
A man is stabbed in an internet cafe. The response: put a moratorium on opening new cafes, but not on selling more knives. Knives don't kill people, people don't kill people, internet cafes kill people. God help us all.
This is where it gets really funny:
Let's suppose that they could magically enforce this. Do they know nothing about the history of trying to control demand by stifling supply? Heard of a little thing called Amendment 18? "Hey, I know of a great little Clickeasy behind the funeral parlour... I wannanother cuppa Java..."
Semi-seriously, I'm reminded of a curfew in Paisley in Scotland, when all of the nightclubs were instructed to kick everyone out at 2am on the dot. The result? The emergency services quickly learned to dispatch units at about 1:50am to arrive in time for the stabbing frenzy. If gang violence is really an issue here, I don't in all honesty see how this situation would be any different.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
The articles are about gang violence spilling over into internet cafes because that's where people are hanging out.
There are a number of laws that deal with children and how they should be raised. The majority of these are to protect their health and development. There are laws that place a parent responsible if their child does not attend school. There are laws on physical and/or sexual abuse of a minor.
In that line of reasoning, a parent could also say that "I feel my son is reponsible enough to go into a bar and drink." or "I feel my daughter is responsible enough to drive after a six pack of beer"
_______________________________
"I'm not Conceited...I'm just a realist..."
(Some Anonymous Coward posted the idea in some comment. Now I can't help but try.)
---
In a related story, the federal government imposed this morning a moratorium of 60 days on public education, claiming that schools are "improperly supervised environment".
"This is only a natural reaction to the recurrent violence in public property." said a senator, "After Columbine and other shootings, stabbings and acts of violence, it is time we protect our children from these nests of gangs and criminals. In most schools the children spent the time between classes almost completely unsupervised!".
It is a known fact that most gangs hang out in schools during school times, where they plan their acts of violence against each other and society. Unstable teenagers meet and get to know most of their friends in school, which can lead to the creation of close-knit groups, encouragement of anti-social interests, defiance of authority and even sexual experimentation.
Even more worrying, according to the experts, is the education imparted on teenagers within this dangerous environment.
"Some of the classes include chemistry and physics, and the children are exposed to the use of dangerous chemicals for nefarious purposes. Public schools are potentially training our young to build bombs and other weapons of destruction!" - said a concerned pundit. "Recently, there are even courses in computer science in some schools. Kids are learning to use this Internet and computers beyond the knowledge of their parents. Without supervision, it is clear that they are exposed to be recruited by international terrorists such as the Al-Qaida, or the guy who destroyed that Yahoo.com website last year".
Parents, however, are more concerned with the ideological bias in their childrens education.
"I never really thought much about it. But when I heard the news I picked up some of the history books my two teenage kids have to read for school, and I was appalled! They're full of stories about rebels and anarchists defying authority. I know this Washington fellow and Martin Luther King are supposed to be the good guys, but I don't know if telling my kids that almost everyone rebelled against their government is such a good idea".
Federal officials are considering extending the moratorium indefinitely, until Congress can pass a law that solves the problem permanently, possibly by extending the moratorium indefinitely as well. It is not clear if the new legislation would dissolve private educational institutes or not.
"The sooner we can get our children out of the schools and their evil influence, the better. Only then will we be able to go to work each morning with the certainty that neither knowledge, nor education, will interfere with the normal and innocent activities of our teenagers in the streets".
-----
Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
Yea, I live down the 57 from garden grove, and it is a nice place ....
Except it's dominated by asian gangs. The problem isnt the internet cafes, or the games played within. The problem is that the internet cafes are placed in an area known to have a substantial gang problem. Combine: 1) a bunch of young people and 2) an area known to have a high gang population and you're bound to have conflicts. THAT is what happened (just for refernce, I saw the story of the stabbing on the local news the night it happened. definitely gang related, according to everyone involved).
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
The 45-day period gives the city attorney and city manager time to review case precedent and figure out what they can do. And what they may do (to show they're Doing Something) could include:
- Impact fees for the business owner (it takes more cops to look after gaming-crazed kids!). These might be tied to the business-licensing process.
- Mandatory content filtering ("Didja know they can get pr0n on them there Ninternet screens?!?")
- Zoning changes (no Net cafes near schools, etc.)
This might be about genuine concern, but the PR guy in me says this is more about making a splash in the paper and taking a moment in the resulting flap to figure out a way to squeeze more municipal revenue from a small business."It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
While it may not make sense to forbid the opening of new cyber cafes, obviously it would be hugely more harmful for a cafe to be shut down for 45 days.
"Inventions cannot in nature be a subject of property." - Thomas Jefferson
Oddly enough, he apparently thought that black people could in nature be a subject of property. Goes to show you how much we can rely on the opinions of our forefathers.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
I'll second this. I really hate to post "me too" type shit, but nobody here today seems to understand the real problem.
Garden Grove isnt trying to block the internet. They're not even trying to close down all internet cafes. From the article: The City Council, responding to a fatal stabbing and other crimes at this Los Angeles suburb's many cyber cafes, placed a 45-day moratorium Tuesday on the opening of any more of the establishments. They're not closing the open establishments, they're merely blocking the creation of any new cafes.
The problem the city is having is that the area, much like most of north orange county (which is where garden grove is, if you didnt know), is a mix of upper middle class (mostly white) suburbanites and lower middle class (mostly asian) residents. In this area, asian gangs are common, and are common problems. Stopping the creation of new cafes gives the gang task force time to catch up to the boom, and keep things under control.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
With todays society it figures the disease would be considered the place and not the people, and the cure is to ban the people from the place.... I'd rather a kid at a computer keeping network security professionals on their toes than out on the streets killing. There are already laws against guns, drugs, and violence. It sounds to me like the police need to do a better job of making sure people in places like these are following them rather than restrict their hours, I'm sure the business owners can't be too happy.
Maybe I'm just biased, after all, sitting at a keyboard is likely the only reason I've never been arrested, or in jail, or on drugs.... I say give the kids access to computers throughout the night, just make sure the places are adiquetly policed...
Please, ignore the poorly worded intro on slashdot, and read the article for yourself. The City Council, responding to a fatal stabbing and other crimes at this Los Angeles suburb's many cyber cafes, placed a 45-day moratorium Tuesday on the opening of any more of the establishments. (emphasis added)
They're not shutting anyone down. They're putting in place an 8pm curfew on weeknights, and asking that the established cafes enforce the standard 10pm curfew the on the weekend.
Please, lets not let this turn into "this city is trying to take the internet away from the people because there are violent video games on the computers". This is a response to gang related stabbings. It has nothing to do with the internet, or geeks, or nerds, or whatever you choose to call yourself. It has everything to do with a rise in the number of cafes in a bad area, and the consequential rise in gang activity at those cafes.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
The beginning of the article seems to be trying to imply some link between violent video games and real-world violence, but the statements of experts in the article don't seem to support that idea.
It looks like the violence has moved from the schools, not from the computer screens, to the parking lots outside the cafes (or, presumably, anywhere else the kids might gather).
It seems to me that the mayor and others involved are imposing these restrictions because they were just recently exposed to the fact that the kids were ditching school, not because of some presumed causal link between video games and violence:
Now that I think about it, the whole darn article is just a bunch of bunk holding together a few useful statements by people who might actually know something. Other favorite parts are the repeated references to race with no apparent point ("umm, by the way, they're all Vietnamese -- draw what conclusions you will, *wink*, *wink*"), and this classic bit:
The "harmless nerds" bit is just funny, and the idea that gangs are somehow not dangerous until mixed with video games is laughable as well.
and onto the internet. And you thought script kiddies were a pain. Maybe I'm getting old, but when I was a minor, the LAST thing that your average "gang" would do is gather to go play on computers.
How times have changed. And as they change, the less reputable members of our society have adapted.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Internet cafe has now turned into a modern day, high tech arcade. They should not have to do anything different from a arcade owner.
Reasonable -- except arcade owners are subjected to the same kind of nonsense. Don't forget the Indiapolis case of trying to ban access to violent video games in arcades.
Every arcade in my hometown has only stayed open six months to a year before it was closed down due to 'gang violence' and 'community standards'. It's the standard knee jerk reaction to any popular teen hangout (other than The Mall, which is protected by tradition and capitalism). This is not something common to Internet Cafes.
It's so hard to find a good game of skeeball in the Washington area... this is why I'm glad we have places like Dave & Busters, which is an adult-oriented arcade designed for the business class sorts.
It's nice to make new laws and decisions, but only the moron makes them without adding the tools to use them. Want to make the streets safer? hire more cops and force them to walk their beat. if there is a trouble area double the cops walking the streets in that area, criminals dont like cops and therefore go elsewhere. today the police are lazy and dont enforce the laws (or even abide by the laws themselves... Most cops I see drive like crazy retards when off-duty, happily breaking traffic laws)
It's time we force the police to do their jobs, we force the city to ensure there are enough police and tools to do their jobs and force them
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
If your traveling and are looking for a place to check your mail. Your only offering $3.00 total maybe $6.00 if your a slow reader. Whereas the people playing Quake are playing for hours on end. They (The Game Players,) are the true customers of the establishment. Not you. If your pissed. Sorry, but your not the deciding factor in the store owners mind. Your $6.00 is moving on in a day and doesn't carry the same weight to the owner as the 15 year old kid who spends $20 a day there. Of course, I've never equated "Internet cafe" as a "serious service for people who need it."
-raibeart-
- "Yeah man, I tell ya what, man...That dang ol' Internet, man...You just go one there and point and click...Talk about
Internet cafes - the bowling alleys of the new millenium!
I suppose this means that in 20 years, Internet cafes will be full of birthday parties and arcade games and ban coffee.
This just gives the kids a few extra hours to get even more bored--just think of all the stabbings they could accomplish with all this new free time.
/. crowd modding you to Score 5, Insightful really gives me the creeps.
If I read correctly through your sarcasms, you basically say 2 things here:
1. Kids attending these cafes are actually would-be criminals. According to the article, investigators don't even assume that; they seem to think that the cafe was merely a battleground. i.e. gangs just met there to fight, they were not usual customers of the cafe.
2. You then fall into the usual (yet unacceptable) ultimatum/blackmail to society/gov : "give us what we want or we use violence."
I can live with the fact that you posted your comment without thinking of its implications, but the
How did government ever obtain to the right to tell me how to raise my kids?
Because you weren't doing a good enough job.
Before you all erupt in mindless rage, I'm not referring to anyone specifically; this law, like most laws that attempt to regulate parenting, was done in response to a problem.
I'm not saying it's a correct response. I'm not saying it's moral. I'm not even saying it's Constitutional. But the automatic negative characterization by people on these forums of those who try to deal with these problems is just pathetic. These are NOT comic-opera villains passing laws simply out of a desire to restrict YOUR freedoms, as they twirl their long black moustachios and chortle gleefully. They're not always ambitious and greedy bureaucrats bent on advancing their career by passing frivolous legislation.
Quite often they're dealing with serious problems that don't have easy answers, and the fact that so many people here try to reduce everything to such simplistic terms reflects poorly on this community. Instead of complaining, why not suggest an alternate method of dealing with the problem?
"The Police Department report establishes that these establishments cater to minors...It has been established that gang members frequent such establishments," the council said in the interim ordinance it adopted Tuesday night.
Whee!
Another example is to ask people to remove their shoes at the airport... it's a good thing the "shoe-bomber" didn't carry the C4 is in underwear or worse, inside his rectum... Can you imagine full cavity searches at airports?
YES!!! dude, killer! you have just given me the best idea ever!
So remember, when they are picking up bits of plane from the whitehouse, you can say "hey, i inspireed him to do that you know"
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
it's only a 45-day moratorium on opening new ones.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Then we were told that the city was just regulating a sleezy, crime-inducing, immoral, women-degrading filthy porn shop. We said, "OK, that sounds reasonable, after all we regulate bars, why should a porn shop be treated differently? But no more regulatin', ya hear?"
Now, in my neck of the woods, video stores aren't regulated. But since they seem to be in yours, you (in the you're-all-citizens sense) were told that the city was just regulating [insert inflamatory adjectives to get people to give up more freedom here] video stores. And you said, "OK, those sure are scary words you used, so yeah it sounds reasonable. After all we regulate bars and porn shops, why should a video store be treated differently?"
And now...we're being told that internet cafes are crime-inducing, violent, immoral, gang-fostering, unsupervised, and appeal to certain ethnic groups therefore they need to be regulated. This, dispite the fact that the gangs developed elesewhere, that the conflict was carried over from the school yard, and that there no reason to single internet cafes out. Well...no reason except that we already regulate bars, porn shops, video stores, and whatnot, why should an internet cafe be treated differently?
-sk
An Internet cafe opened in Fairfax, VA recently. I looked into it, and thought to myself: Why would I want to go there?
I thought perhaps if you are a hardcore gamer, but then unless you were a *poor* hardcore gamer you already have your own machine. With what you spend to rent their PCs, you could at least afford a PS2 for the cost of a few months of regular cafe visitation.
So then I thought, perhaps it is visited by people who simply want to be "trendy" and do what the in-crowd does just because they say you should do it.
That means teenagers.
Then I thought, why were they drawn there to begin with? And then I thought: NO CONTENT PROTECTION.
So, I was thinking that it would be only a matter of time before the news splashed all kinds of stories about kids going to the cafes to download pr0n. This would be followed by public outcry, government intervention, yada yada yada.
Oh well, can't win 'em all.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
From the few comments I've read on this thread everyone is eager to blame the parents as would I (upon first thought).
I tend to think that people who make the sort of comment that goes like "f-ing parents should spend some more f-ing time with their kids" come from a background where they observed (first hand or second) parents that did this.
The problem with this logic is that sometimes the parents and other family members are busy with work trying to "make a living for their family". You COULD blame parents saying they should take the time out to spend it with the kids but couldn't you really feel good about putting a father and mother in jail for life knowing that they were workign 16 hour days trying to make ends meet?
I wouldn't shift all blame away from parents nor would I place all blame on the government (or the city). I say that instead of shutting down internet cafes, they should be regulated (with some moderation either way). THEN the city government should try creating after school programs.m I think the business have a right to run a business but after school programs have shown to be effective in keeping kids out of trouble.
My thoughts are that a bunch of these kids don't have jack crap to do after school so there's nothing like playing a bit of Counterstrike (at age 23 i find myself doing the same thing). What these kids need are safe alternatives to life after school. That is a big role the government/city needs to take up.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
When something bad happens, blame Canada! Or something like that.
:)
Hmm, not that I read the article, it's standard stuff really, but I feel the need to point out that this is a typically polemic response to violence. After all, you can possibly blame violence on the parents, or the school, etc. It would be slander and no one makes any money. Not very American is it? Now, if one blames the video games... well that's a valuable law suit.
In the early days of this century, Pool Halls were condemmed as polluting our youth with sin. Anyone remember the Music Man from High School?
In the 30s, it was "Jitterbugging", Swing Dancing, and seditious characters like Benny Goodman and Louis Armstrong that were ruining America's youth.
Back in the 50s violent comic books (Like EC's "Tales of the Crypt Keeper") were blamed for "Juvenile Delinquency". A popular book "Seduction of the Innocent" by Frederic Wertham caused the creation of the Comics Code Authority which pretty much censored news stand comics for 30 years.
Back in the halcyon late 70s and 80s, similar claims were made about Video Game Arcades. XTC jokes aside, Pac Man didn't ruin American youth.
Same old denial. My kid isn't bad, it's that damn (fill in blank) that's making her bad. To paraphrase Ann Landers: Wake up. Smell it.
My father is a blogger.
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They sell coffee and donuts. So cops are always coming in. This seems to keep things under control. And, this being SF, where even low-end restaurants are good or they close in two months, they have decent food.
Right - I tend to agree. What purpose does a ban of about 1 1/2 months on new Inet cafes really serve, in the overall picture? They've got to have another motive, and the motive is most likely to A) raise awareness that these places are breeding violence, and B) to make it easier to place a permanent ban. (It's always easier to suggest the people extend an existing rule, by showing some slanted evidence that the temp. rule did some measure of good. It looks worse to slap down an outright ban....)
Actually, I find it hard to believe violent gangs are really so attracted to coffee and computer games/geeks. In reality, they'll just move along to some other random facility that lets minors in....
Where does the government get off saying kids can't play games after 8? It seems to me the issue here isn't that they are playing games, its that they are playing violent games. The games people use, in conjunction with violent movies, as a scapegoat for the retards of society who go around shooting each other. I'm sure ALL of the hippest gangs frequent cyber cafes...
All I'm trying to say, is that this is not the governments place. This is where the parents should make decisions. If some kids are getting good grades and staying out of trouble then more luck to you. The thing that bothers me is the 'school night' thing. I'm 17 and I don't see the problem with me going out and playing some halflife on a 'school night'. Especially since I don't have classes that start until 3 hours after everyone else because its my senior year! These laws are understandable in some cases, but they shouldn't blanket everyone under 18.
At 17 I live on my own, support myself, pay rent, buy food, and whatnot on top of going to school. If I want to go play some fucking quake where the hell do people get off telling me I'm not responsible enough to? The truth is that I'm busy working and sleeping, but if one night I say screw it, I want to frag a couple hundred people before I go to sleep...
The governments of the country keep passing these laws that target minors. The problem is that there is a BIG difference between an 8 year old and a 17 year old, and sometimes the difference between a 17 and 18 year old is about a week. The laws shouldn't blanket all minors, and in our age where kids are smarter and work more at younger ages maybe people should rethink what being a minor really is and how appropriate the ages they choose are.
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"...it's about a city legislating a business. It happens all the time with Bars, Porn Shops, Video Stores and whatnot, why should an arcade be treated differently?"
...it's about a city legislating a business. It happens all the time with Bars, Porn Shops, Video Stores and whatnot, why should a Church, a YMCA or a Library be treated differently?
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
IMHO, not so simple. Conservatives remain a group with more or less stable agenda (do we like it or not), and they aren't all the same.
The "Liberals" simply don't have the persistent agenda, they're (I mean Dems, Greens, Sierra Club etc.) just a generation- based party that airs the ideas shared by Boomers at any particular moment of time, while the Boomers themselves are essentially overgrown children that never had any other ideology except conventional egotism.
Given this generation has become parents, the Dems try now to be parents and *model the State after the school*. It's effectively a new brand of totalitarianism unseen ever before- we saw regimes modelled after Armed Forces (Germany), factory (The Soviet Union), Church (Cromwellian Britain, Iran), and now we're going to see something new.
Let's see. folks, it's gonna be real interesting...
"There is no possible reason to ever kill another human being."...
sorry I disagree, as a former service man, and retired police officer I can think of many VALID reasons to kill another human being. Luckily I've never had to do it, but I feel fully prepared to shoot to protect someone else. I also feel capable of regreting such a decision but still making it...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
where are the parents?
Surely you mean where is the parent. Most of the country thinks that for a child to have parents (plural) is an outmoded concept. You can't disagree with that, because then you're a horrible person who doesn't think that single parents are perfect saints/victims who never go to the toilet. For a variety of reasons, California is at the forefront of parental minimization.
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So, if you could give your daughter a pill that contained a retrovirus-like agent that would fix all of the genes in her body in place, you'd object to that?
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
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