Panasonic Dual-LCD PC

FreeBSD-RockS writes: "Panasonic released a desktop PC called Panacom LC/W with two 15-inch (1024x768) LCD monitors arranged side by side. The LCD screens can be arranged so that they can be used either in a portrait or a landscape form. The new model will be put on sale on March 8 and the retail price through direct marketing is around $2000 USD."

Comments

Hmmm...

[BoarderPhreak]

I'm thinking I'd rather see that available as a separate monitor, than as an integrated, all-in-one PC.

After all, the PC will eventually (rapidly?) become obsolete... While the LCDs would be a hot piece of hardware for much longer.

Re:Hmmm...

[CtrlPhreak]

I hate to break it to you, but it only has a 766mhz celeron. It's already way outdated by even the most conservative standards.

Re:Hmmm...

[UncleRoger]

What I'd like to see is a laptop that can seperate the keyboard, main unit and monitor (have a little folding stand come out of the bottom maybe. So I could rest the keyboard in my lap, prop the monitor up somewhere (or hang it!) and find a convenient spot to set the main unit. I expect the keyboard could maintain contact with lowpower RF or infrared and have it's own battery.

You have just described the Outbound Laptop almost perfectly. I don't know that anyone actually hung the monitor on the wall, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't. The Computer is built into the monitor, without adding much bulk.

Cute, but...

[BoarderPhreak]

Why not just a normal PC, and a larger LCD? This way you won't have to mess with rotating LCDs screens which are surely more sensitive to wear and tear and increased complexity. Then there's the issue of drivers, etc. for those screens...

Not to mention that the PC that's at the heart of that system will become obsolete long before the LCDs will.

Re:Cute, but...

[mberman]

Because larger LCDs increase cost exponentially. With two 17" displays, you get exactly twice the screen real estate for exactly twice the price. With one 18" or 19", you get a tiny amount more space (less than an inch or two, respectively, along each side), for...about twice the price. Dual-head video cards/drivers are pretty much a solved problem, so there's not really any "issue", and rotating LCDs is pretty damn easy, much easier than rotating CRTs, which have been around for many, many years. So, basically, you're getting a huge amount of display space for no emotional cost, and far less monetary cost than buying one enormous screen.

WooHoo!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now when I pull up pr0n on my computer, I can have 1 15" breast in each window!

Another good use...

[DickPhallus]

Hey, with one of these, I could read /. at -1 again, and not worry about the page widening posts!

Wide posts

[jargoone]

I can think of only about 5 ways Taco could fix those damn page-widening posts.
He hasn't done a single one yet.
I love trolls as much as the next guy, but this ruins it and makes me browse at 0.
Fight back!
Manual page breaks in all posts, now!

Wow

[addaon]

That was a fast slashdotting. Anyway, I've had an idea like this for a while, although I imagine my desired monitor layout is kinda different. Years ago, I used to use a standard two-fold wallet; small, convenient, and good enough. Then, when I started getting too much junk for it, I switched to a trifold; even smaller cross section, though thicker; room for more cards; and just more convenient.

Basically, what I want is a trifold laptop. Currently, laptop size is limitted by screensize. (See the picturebook or libretto for proof.) With a trifold, you could have a laptop the size of the picturebook (2.2 lbs, 1024x480 screen) with /two/ screens that unfold, one on top of the other, giving you effectively 1024x960. Now, there would be no way to conceal the joint between the screens; this would be two monitors, not one large one that fold. But even so, it seems like a beautiful idea.

Adam

Re:Wow

[L-Wave]

With the sheer weight of a laptop like that, you wouldn't be able to use it as a carry-on on an airplane ;P nevermind when the joints get loose and one screen collapses and smashes into the screen below it lol =)

Re:Wow

[Spyky]

Unfortunately you are adding two more layers of "case" material by making a tri-fold laptop. It will add another several mm to the thickness of the folded laptop. In addition to that you are adding another hinge, which are prone to breaking on current laptops.

Its a nice idea, but I'm going to keep waiting for the PC on a single sheet of plastic that I can just roll-up and go :-)

-Spyky

LCDs aren't there yet

[BoarderPhreak]

What if you're in the graphic arts, say, retouching photos? LCDs are getting close, but still don't really have the wide gamut that CRTs do. As such, LCD-based systems aren't really appropriate for these kinds of users.

Of course, there are higher-end LCDs out these days like the Apple Cinema Display that come ever closer to surpassing CRTs on this front. The other features certainly are no comparison!

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[Matey-O]

Tell that to the Mac community, which I'm pretty sure is the largest group of 'Photo Retouchers'.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[BoarderPhreak]

I'm one of the Mac community!

Apple's LCDs are among the best available, but for critical work, even they are not always good enough.

While the gap is closing, LCDs simply lack the wide color gamut of CRTs. Of course, all the other benefits of LCDs vs. CRTs apply.

Digital photographers are a very picky bunch, and most still prefer CRTs. I use my Mac for exactly this, and I'm using a CRT myself. I'll more than likely get an LCD soon enough, but I won't be tossing my CRT out just yet, either.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[LoudMusic]

I'm glad there are people like you still around.

A) I don't think that guy even read your first comment ... heh heh.

B) What kind of CRT are you using on your Mac? I purchased a whole slew of Sony G500s for my Agency's G4 workstations. They eat up a bunch of desk space, but the color, resolution, refreshrate, and expense are far and away better than any pannel I've ever seen.

~LoudMusic

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[MouseR]

Anyone who color-corrects using the screen isn't worth their salaries.

A good scanner operator (I'm talking drum scanners) or good touch-up artists ('coz that's what they are: artists) never uses the screen, be it CRT or LCD or even those 20k$ Barco screens, to judge their colors.

There are simply too many factors that will affect the perceived colors (all the way through caffeine intake).

Descent color correction relies on color densities, and white point adjustment (*never* have less than 5% black on a white point, or run the risks of quarter-tone blank-outs).

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[BoarderPhreak]

For this reason the Mac uses, for example, "ColorSync" to match input to display to output... Also why you use color calibration hardware - to ensure that on any given medium, your colors are identical.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[BoarderPhreak]

I'm not using an ideal monitor at the moment, but it's the best I have. I'm looking for a replacement, actually. It's a Sun Microsystems 21" (current model) monitor, which uses a Sony Trinitron tube as it basically IS a Sony monitor, re-badged.

The problem is that as a secondary input, the Mac signal is really hosed somewhere - there's ghosting on the monitor. I've tried multiple cables, including gold-plated and shielded and nothing helps. Careful tuning of the monitor doesn't help much either. The only thing that I've noticed is that the lower the resolution and refresh, the better the image is. I'm thinking that this Sun monitor might not quite be the same as it's Sony counterpart (which is definately Mac friendly) as far as specifications and signal handling might go.

As it is, I'm limited to 1280x1024 as at 1600x1200 I'd go blind. The Sun works great on the same monitor ar 1600x1280. Notice the not-so-same resolution ratios... Therein, somewhere, I think - lies the problem.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[MouseR]

Nope.

ColorSync is there for home users.

Talk about ColorSync to any pro (and I do mean pro, not corner shop) printer and you'll get laughed at.

Color matching is best done using Pantone (PMS) tables, and PMS books are useless after 9-12 months, because of paper degradation.

You can't win this one. I've worked 10 years in the pre-press industry, writing tools for this highly demanding field. I know first hand how things work, and they don't work with ColorSync.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[MouseR]

Color matching is best done using Pantone (PMS) tables, and PMS books are useless after 9-12 months, because of paper degradation.

I should have pointed out that PMS color matching is for matching generic colors (like in drawings and page layout flat items, either for spot-color printing or process or hexachrome color seperations).

For photo touch-ups, they generally use color densities (CMYK).

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[LoudMusic]

You know, the monitor might just be bad. Have you tried it on other computers? I've seen this before and it turned out there was a problem with the power system in the monitor.

If your monitor is the flat CRT Trinitron, then it's the one a bunch of people are using. Dell, HP, Compaq, Sun, SGI ... everyone uses it because it's so amazing. I've got two of the 19" version (Dell branded) of the same thing. I didn't have the desk space nore the funding for such a beast, but they sure are nice (:

~LoudMusic

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[BoarderPhreak]

I haven't tried another machine on the secondary input yet (such as a PC or laptop) and the primary input which is on the Sun works perfectly?

I suppose the second input might be hosed somehow, though. This monitor really *should* be able to handle the Mac signals quite readily.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[LoudMusic]

Well, I'm a bit nit-picky on wording, and I assume things I probably shouldn't - so don't hessitate to call me arogant. I think you might have bad information regarding the video signal.

There is no such thing as a "Mac signal". VGA is VGA is VGA ... it doesn't matter what computer the signal is coming from, as long as the signal is standard, non-interupted, and the hardware isn't malfunctioning. If it's a newer Mac (good ole clear plastic model), it will conform to the standard with no problems. I highly suggest checking the monitor first, then getting a different monitor to test the output of the Mac. One of them is malfunctioning because your setup is 'ideal' ... by my standards (:

~LoudMusic

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[vought]

"ColorSync is there for home users.

Talk about ColorSync to any pro (and I do mean pro, not corner shop) printer and you'll get laughed at.
"

Pros like Joseph Holmes, Richard Seiling, Galen Rowell and shops like Pictopia?

Granted, I'm talking about RGB->RGB workflow, but ColorSync works just as well going to CMYK. What would you rather do - waste time tweaking stuff ny hand (Eye)? Have fun, but I'll make sure to avoid your shop - I tend to like repeatable results from my printer.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[Alan Partridge]

interesting problem. I use a Sony G400, which is a 19" FD trinitron, which I run at 1280x960x75 from the Radeon in my G4. When I first installed this monitor, I was required by the manual to fit a tiny "Mac Adaptor" (looks like a slim gender bender, but isn't) that came with the monitor, despite never having to do that before for any other VGA / Mac combination and with no explanation from Sony. Incidentally, the "recommended" setting for my monitor is 1280x1024x85 which doesn't fit the 4:3 aspect screen at all. Anyone able to explain this? I just don't get it at all. I use a Sony F500R on my G4 at work which runs at a breathtaking 1600x1200x100. And it was HALF the price of an 18" LCD when I bought it. Nice.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[MaxVlast]

I've done some fairly high-end prepress, and have run into my share of color matching issues.

While what you say is correct, as an on-screen artist, I sure as heck need faithful color on my screen. And that's why I'll put effort onto screen-based color matching.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[Alan Partridge]

some of Colorsync's profile conversion tools CAN be useful, but software colur calibration is a complete no-go I'm afraid. In TV/film work, we always make sure that it's turned off. If you're gonna calibrate your screen, it better be done properly by feeding a known signal from a TPG in and sampling the faceplate IN THE CORRECT AMBIENT LIGHT CONDITIONS ONLY. Grade 1 video monitors are adjusted like this, and on a weekly basis in our facility. They are also never allowed to be turned off and always correctly illuminated.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[BoarderPhreak]

Yeah, my bad on the wording. :-D

You're right, the "signal" is universal in that it's either VGA or some other VESA standard, etc.

I'm talking more about the Mac's output matching the monitor's capabilities. For example, on the Sun at 1600x1280 the monitor is fine, but on the Mac at 1600x1200 it is not. I'm thinking the aspect ratio or resolution here is the issue...

But on either machine at 1280x1024, the problem is still there, so that can't be the problem. I'm beginning to think you're right that the monitor or the Mac is b0rked, and I'll have to attach another monitor to test this. Of course, the other monitor I have tops out at 1280x1024 and that does NOT ghost, lending to the flaky monitor theory.

Re:LCDs aren't there yet

[BoarderPhreak]

Yeah, I'm kinda diggin' these monitors myself! The specs are very respectable, not to mention a pretty neat shade of blue. :)

I really want the Apple Cinema Display, but the aforementioned gamut issue, the cost and the fact that it's essentially Mac-only without adapters, etc. all count against it.

Laptop size limitations

[Rupert]

Actually, screen size is not that important. If the resolution is there, you can always just sit closer.

What bugs me about sub-notebooks is the keyboard size. If that could trifold, but still be rigid enough for me to do my normal pounding on, then you'd have something.

Re:Laptop size limitations

[addaon]

"Actually, screen size is not that important. If the resolution is there, you can always just sit closer."

I said that myself, when buying a picturebook. Admittedly, it's a great short-term solution. But the simple fact is that sitting too close to a monitor wears your eyes out faster; you get more tired reading characters .2" high than ones .4" high. High resolution small screens are great... but only for stuff like OSX, with resolution-independent graphics. And even then, they're still small screens.

Re:Laptop size limitations

[Alan Partridge]

are you an idiot savant, or just an idiot? Your post makes no sense whatever. DXGA is NOT a standard. DDC is...

Re:Laptop size limitations

[FFFish]

You mean like the old IBM ThinkPad keyboard, which had this nifty expanding mechanism. Folded, the keyboard "broke" in half along the 5TGB/6YHN keys, with the right-hand section sliding up and to the left (so that, were you to rip the LCD off, it'd look like a QWERTH or QWERTN keyboard.)

Opened, the moveable halves slide outward and together, creating a full-width keyboard, in a laptop that was less than a full keyboard width wide when folded. Very cool!

Re:Laptop size limitations

[FFFish]

IBM has some 200dpi LCDs. If those puppies were ever brought to an affordable price, and if ClearType were used, I think you'd find it nearly as readable as old-style (300dpi) laser printouts. IOW, just fine.

Dual displays

[Zeinfeld]

I once shared an office with Jim Gettys who declared that he had to have dual monitors on his desk because he was the guy 'who wrote the silly code to do it' [in X-Windows].

Since then I have been looking for an excuse for a second display. Until recently however the thought of paying for dual 18" LCD displays was just too much and now the model I have is no longer made so if I bought a second one it would not match. Like what is the point in having kewl stuff if it looks crappie? Also the demise of 3DFX means that I would also have to get a new PCI monitor card to drive the thing.

I agree with the other posters about not really wanting my PC built into my display. My computer system lives out of sight about 5 ft from my desk and is connected to the desk by 2 cables, the monitor cable and the USB cable. I have a USB keyboard, mouse and CDROM drive on the desk

Idealy I would move the computer into another room altogether 'cos the fan is pretty loud.

I think that before I start spending more money on decorating the office that the NASDAQ needs to go up above 3000 or so.

Re:Dual head.

[saintlupus]

Two thousand dollars does seem a bit steep, though. I wonder what other sorts of features are included?

Oh, and before I'm told to RTFA, it's Slashdotted. Badly.

Though I'm sure the display on the server is right purty.

--saint

Two monitors verse multiple desktops

[Marx_Mrvelous]

I don't see the big push MS has for multiple monitors. No home user would want the expense in dollars or desk space, electricity of having two monitors.
Multiple desktops, or oversized desktops ala ATI's old video drivers (before MS WHQL removed the ability) is a much, much better solution.

Re:Two monitors verse multiple desktops

[NerveGas]

Well, I think that they might, if even a tiny fraction of home users were even aware that they could use two monitors!

Multiple desktops are nice, but they simply are not a substitute for seeing two seperate apps simultaneously. Rather than switching desktops to look at your "other" app, then switch back to the first, you just look at the other monitor, then back. It's a terrific thing.

The one area that they don't make a lot of sense in (yet) is gaming. Those who are in it for the gaming should just save for the 21" monitor.

(I have a 21" at home, and 2x17" at work. Each has it's benefits and drawbacks. The only way for me to choose the "best" of the two would be to buy 2x21".)

steve

Love multi-monitor

[mmaddox]

Although I can't see this link (thanks /.), I have to say "bravo!" More people should be exposed to the wonders of multi-monitor setups. As a developer/author, I have found the added real estate of multiple monitors more than outweighs the benefits of huge monitors. Thus, I buy cheaper 19 and 17 inch CRTs and have WAY more space to work and play. Good for Panasonic!

Re:Love multi-monitor

[bnenning]

Agree 100%. I've got a 15" LCD and 17" CRT at home, both at 1024x768. At work I have my TiBook driving its LCD (1152x768) and a 19" CRT at 1152x870. I've become sufficiently spoiled that any single display system feels confining, no matter how big it is.

Once again, the rest of the industry is figuring out that Apple had the right idea over 10 years ago...

Video games?

[TheFlyingGoat]

Unfortunately the server is already /.'d for me, so I don't know if my question would be answered in the press release.

One of the most interesting reasons for setting up dual displays for me would be for gaming... more FOV. With most systems, however, only one 3d card is used to display the game, while the other stays on the desktop. Would it be up to game designers to add a feature that would allow both screens to be used for displaying the game, or is that at the window manager level?

Furthermore, what would be the best way to handle this for FPS (and most non-FPS games actually) where the main action is in the center of the screen? Your crosshair would fall on the break between the LCDs. :/ Maybe use one display for FOV stuff and the other for displaying weapon, health, ammo, map, etc?

Any insight would be appreciated. :)

Re:Video games?

[merz]

You might want to check out this site. Quintuple-head anyone?

Re:Dual head.

[jgerman]

Yeah, I have two monitors at work, one linux one Win2K, I do all my work in Linux, but read email, surf, other extra type things on the windows box with VNC switching the keyboard and mouse between them. It's easier to get things done at work because I can have an html reference up on one monitor while I actually work in terminals on the other. Very convenient. At home I usually have to switch between windows to do this.

For sale by owner

[nsample]

I currently run two monitors, side by side, in a similar configuatrion. I bought a PCI Voodoo3 at a local Fry's for abour $25, and a second monitor. Beats the heck out of spending $2k for a new box with features I don't want. But, I'll gladly sell it to you for $2k.

So, seriously, tell me again why a computer with two monitors is worthy of being a /. story?

Old news. Havn't you people seen a Bloomberg?

[inaneboy]

If you've been to a financial firm you see 2 and 4 monitor getups all day long. I use one from 9-5 every day.

Consider the total real estate available to me. I have an 18" LCD with a total area of about 168 square inches (usable). Plus a pair of 14" LCDs for nearly 200 square inches. The point being, for a large spreadsheet the 18" is clearly superior. If however, you need to watch two things at once (2 web pages or 2 spreadsheets or 1 and 1 whatever) the two smaller screens are FAR superior. It all depends what you're using the screens for.

http://www.bloomberg.com/corp/profservice/profes si onal.html

In Japanese?

[LoudMusic]

Well, thanks to the hoards of slashdotters, the english site is down and out.

http://www.sense.panasonic.co.jp/shop/ncpo/catlo g/ pc/cf-81/cf-81.jsp

Anyone read Japanese?

~LoudMusic

Re:In Japanese?

[LoudMusic]

Hey cool, a review page. Still need a Japanese to English translater though (:

I figured out the problem, somehow there was a space in the address.

http://www.sense.panasonic.co.jp/shop/ncpo/catlo g/ pc/cf-81/cf-81.jsp

Someone else posted it and got modded to 5 already. I guess mine will wither away into nothing ness ...

~LoudMusic

Pics available on Panasonic.co.jp

[Cy Guy]

The link in the story was already slashdotted so I found some pics on Panasonic's Japanese homepage

I like the pic at the bottom of the page showing how you can flip one screen around facing away from you so that two people sitting at a table facing each other both get a screen.

With a multi-tasking OS, one user could use the mouse and the other the keyboard and work on seperate tasks.

Sounds fun.

[Forge]

Aside from the usual @dose it run Linux?) I also want to know more detailed specs. Too bad the site is slashdoted beyond recovery. Anyone care to post info?

Sure you can go out and build a system with 2 19@ monitors for less but alas if you make a compatibility blunder it's all on you head. In other words if you are an artist or programer with limited hardware experience you should buy this rather than building your own.

Karma Whoring R US

[Matey-O]

If you can't read someting Asian, at least you can look at the pretty pictures here: http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/article/stapa/0,161 6,4140,00.html

What's ALSO interesting is the 'Private Key' Hardware shown partway down the apge.

In other news...

[gUmbi]

Ford decided to add a spoiler to this years Escort.

Dell released a PC today with 4 USB ports! (Now you surf the information superhighway twice as fast! - Dude, you're getting a Dell!)

Pleez,

Jason.

PCI Bandwidth?

[Usquebaugh]

I used to have a three monitor set up at work, pretty neat although the window manager needed some work to make it perfect.

I've been thinking about doing this at home. But I want accelerated digital 3D $$$

So do we have multi AGP ports on any mother boards?

Is the PCI bus ever going to get increased bandwidth?

To me the bandwidth limitations of the pci bus would seem to be a limit on futre expansion.

Re:PCI Bandwidth?

[singularity]

I believe there are some difficulties with multiple-AGP motherboards. I think that memory access is currently one of them (although I might be wrong).

As far as PCI goes, there have been some developments. You are starting to see more 66mHz and/or 64 bit PCI slots (most of the older PCI slots are 33mHz/32-bit).

I run dual CRTs now and plan on running dual LCDs on my next computer. While good 3D is important to me, I realize that it is *most* important on one screen.

So my second screen is not quite as fast as my primary screen. I can live with that.

More esotheric problems

[BoarderPhreak]

True, cost is a major factor in moving up to larger LCDs. I definately agree.

I'm thinking of more esotheric problems - unless your video card has dual outputs, you'll need a second video card. I've not seen any motherboards, Mac or PC - that have dual AGP slots. This would affect performance on that second display.

There's also the fact that two displays do not a large desktop make, necessarily. I know I'd rather have a large, contiguous workspace rather than have two clearly separate and spaced-apart screens.

Granted, this is splitting hairs I guess and each side has it's pros and cons and depends wholly on your needs and preferences. I'm just stating my opinion on this arrangement... :)

Re:More esotheric problems

[BoarderPhreak]

Exactly! In your situation, or say in video or graphics - where you might have palettes or less visually dynamic stuff... The dual monitor and video card approach is perfect.

Maybe I'm just picky - I'd love to have one huge assed monitor that's equally fast... But that's where the price comes in to consideration. :(

What's new about this?

[DohDamit]

A year and a half ago, I walked into a place(trading shop) and the tech's there had three or four monitors they switched between by moving their mouse. How is this any big deal? Not only did they have several monitors, they could choose which computer under their desk actually displayed on each monitor...so each computer spewed onto one or many monitors, depending on what they wanted. How is this better?

Re:What's new about this?

[yorgasor]

The fascinating this about this is that it comes set up like that. How many home users have the technical know-how to set something up like that? This comes all set up with the bells and whistles, plus it's very light and easy to setup and maneuver.

Granted, I've got my two 19" monitors side by side, and I love it to death! But it wasn't something that normal people could do (of course, it didn't help that one was an old fixed frequency 1962b Sun monitor with a special adapter ... if you want something similar and need the modelines, let me know and I'll send them to you).

Anyway, this just brings dual headed displays to the masses and that's what rocks.

Re:Dual head.

[LoudMusic]

I have two 19" flat CRT Trinitrons at home connected to a Matrox G450. I highly suggest this card (or the G550) because it comes with good software for possitioning popup windows correctly instead of splitting it in the middle of two displays. It's nice not wasting an addition PCI slot as well, and both monitors have equal hardware pushing video to them. It also makes the display appear as one monitor to Windows, where as having two video cards actually show up as multiple devices to Windows. This allows the Tasktray to span across both monitors, and my active desktop as well. With multiple video cards, you have a master desktop that is just like a single desktop, then all the rest are just additional space to move windows to. I guess it depends on your personal taste, but I like having the displays appear as one to Windows.

My only word of caution: Having an odd number of displays is highly recommended as you won't have the border of two displays in the center of your vision. It's very distracting.

Dell 19" Trinitron

Matrox G450 (because it has dual VGA instead of dual DVI like the G550)

Image of my 3200 x 1200 desktop (with GTPlanet active desktop (that I made))

~LoudMusic

Japanese product page

[murphj]

For those unable to follow the article's link:
Try Here

The real use for flipping the screen

[oneiros27]

Is when you have some sort of a help-desk type environment, where the client comes in to talk, and you need to show them something. There was an IBM LCD that would do a sort of a backflip for that purpose:

• http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/accessories/monitors/inde x.html
  (choose 'see the T560 in action' link)

As anyone who's attempted to use VNC to fix a server while someone's sitting on the system, wrestling for mouse control is a pain in the ass.

I have however, had luck with a two keyboard system [Macintosh], when some friends from Galudet would come by, we'd set two folks up on a system with two keyboards, so they could communicate without having to write everything down, and keep passing paper back and forth.

Two LCD screens side-by-side?

[Kaa]

One word:

Bloomberg

Re:Two LCD screens side-by-side?

[Anne_Nonymous]

You get 4 Bloomberg screens displayed on two 14" flat-pannels, or you can pay more for 4 Bloomberg screens displayed on four pannels. The cost differential used to be $300 a month.

Re:Dual head.

[LoudMusic]

Very good point. I actually have two identical monitors on a huge desk (cumberson at times ...) so I can situate them side by side. Your situation did cross my mind when I was getting into this whole endevor, but I decided that I could find a way to get the two monitors side by side no matter where I took them. It's also nice having one resolution setting for both monitors. It actually shows up as 3200 x 1200 in the Display Properties.

Before this I was running a GeForce 256 and an ATI All-In-Wonder (PCI), with a 19" and a 17". It was very nice being able to set different resolutions and position the smaller monitor at any point along side the larger monitor. It allowed me to keep a [near] consistant 'pixel per inch' ratio across both displays.

I'm glad you brought that up ...

~LoudMusic

Re:Dual screens

[Tenebrious1]

I have two 17" monitors hooked up to my pc. One is running of the built in video and the other off a graphics card. It's a great setup, especially if you're doing work in one and in the other you have your chat, email, winamp.

I prefer a bunch of smaller screens, because then I can arrange them to all face me. A 54" screen would be difficult to use- the left and right edges would be a good foot or more away from your eyes than the center of the screen. Your eyes would have to refocus when you moved around the screen.

Now, a flexible 54" screen might work, one that is slightly curved so all points are equidistance from your eyes.

Here's a question

[Grape Shasta]

Does anyone out there know about the future of LCD display technology? I've been curious about this. With CRT's, it seems intuitive to me that a small increase in screen size (say, going from 19" to 21") would result in a large cost increase. The technology doesn't scale well, so a linear increase in screen area doesn't translate to a linear increase in cost.

But is this necessarily true with LCD screens? It seems to be based on the way they are priced. But technologically speaking, why can't I have an LCD screen with 4 times the area of a 17" screen, for 4 times the cost?

I'm curious because I'd love to be able to buy a nice 50" widescreen LCD monitor for my home computer in ten years or so, for maybe $400 or so. Will it happen?

Re:Here's a question

[rlarner]

It's because current LCD production technology is worse than CRT - they throw away a lot of monitors. Here's the process:
1. manufacture the complete LCD screen
2. Test to see how many 'defective' dots there are
3. If too many defects are seen in the screen (either total number, or too many next to eachother, or...), throw it away.
4. Use what's left.
That's why large LCD screens have not been made - the larger the screen, the more defective dots you get.

Re:Here's a question

[Grape Shasta]

After I posted my question, I remembered the How Stuff Works website, and I found this same answer there:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/lcd5.htm

So, I guess the limiting factor is how much they can improve the manufacturing quality. Hmmm, it would be cool if they could develop a modular process, where they could produce 4" mini-panels, test them, and then fuse the good ones together seamlessly. But maybe I'm dreaming.

Or maybe someone will produce my 50" LCD screen and just allow for a certain small percentage of defects. How bad could that be?

pics

[SubtleNuance]

http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/article/stapa/0,161 6,4140,00.html

Everyone thank our friends at google for this link. Not a mirror, but a start.

They should make laptops like this!

[burtonator]

One of the other posters commented that it was stupid to create a PC with dual LCD panels because the system will depreciate before the LCD panels.

For laptops this is not the case. Some vendor should create a laptop with dual LCDs.

Specifically this image

Imagine if this was a laptop. Would be REALLY slick and I would pay the extra $1000 for this.

They would need the ability to operate conventionally so that you could still use it with one LCD panel because you wouldn't be able to use it on an airplane.

I am sitting in a coffee shop in San Francisco right now on 802.11 and it would be nice to have dual LCD panels. One for Emacs and one for Mozilla :)

I've always wondered

[bluGill]

Why throw them away? granted no buisness or serious gamer would buy a LCD with bad pixels, but it would seem to me there is a market for LCDs with a small number of non-intrusive bad pixels. The menu bar on the bottom of my desktop for instance doens't need all the pixes to work. And if there are one or two in the middle of a large display I can live with that.

Mind you I expect to pay a large discount for the displays with bad pixels, but I would buy a 15 inch LCD with 5 bad pixels for $49.95, and it would seem to me there is a market there. And since they would throw them away before they make money.

Of course maybe they recycle the bad LCDs, in which case they do need to make more profit over the cost to recycle a bad display. Still I would think this could be done. Anyone know the costs?

Re:slashdotted? Sure, but Google can find it...

[dbirchall]

There are photos of it on Japanese pages here and of course on Panasonic's own Japanese sites, here and here. (Doesn't anybody use Google any more?)

dual monitor iMac

[pneuma_66]

this picture looks suspiciously like the dual monitor iMac i made as a joke.

Re:Dual head.

[LoudMusic]

Heh heh, a friend of mind has said the very same thing, "sure would be nice to have two AGP slots!" We were later informed that it's not physically possible with current motherboard specifications, but it wasn't explained in detail to me. Oh well.

~LoudMusic

Re:Dual head.

[LoudMusic]

I believe the G450 can seperate them as well, but when I saw that they could act as one I quickly clicked that option. For some reason it just works better for me - probably the way I organize myself on a computer - if that makes any sense ...

~LoudMusic

Monitor resolutions?

[Geek In Training]

...with two 15-inch (1024x768) LCD monitors...

Are you sure they're 1024x768? The Panasonic Japan website lists SXGA resolution (15.7", instead of the 15.0 we're used to seeing).

IIRC:

VGA=640x480
SVGA=800x600
XGA=1024x768
SXGA=1280x1024

I'm pretty sure from look at the mirror site, these are actually 1280x1024 resolution. Which I would like even better than my current 1024x768 LCD I have at home!

(WalMart sells them for $369.00 US now. With free mouse! ;)

Dual Heading LCDs is good and bad

[fractalus]

I've got dual 17" LCD monitors and, frankly, it's been a rough ride.

I started with an ATI Radeon All-in-Wonder and Rage something-or-other as the secondary card. This worked fairly well, except the TV on the AIW wouldn't work unless I rebooted Win2K with just one video card. To play games I at least had to disable the second display (didn't have to reboot, though). But for regular Windows apps, this worked great; apps maximize to just one monitor, popups don't cross monitor boundaries, most things just worked better.

Not happy with the performance on the second display (PCI instead of AGP) I splurged and got a Radeon 8500 with built-in dual-head. And yeah, the performance is great... but the dual-head support is utter crap. The DVD playback can't full-screen properly, apps get confused about which monitor (or both) they should maximize to, the mouse pointer behaves erratically near the monitor break, and you can't set the two monitors to different resolutions. Oh, and the software gets confused about how to use both monitors across reboots; sometimes forgetting the bit depth, always forgetting that a 2560x1024 display should span two monitors, not be constrained to one. ATI has yet to patch any of these problems.

The LCDs themselves... well I use flat CRTs at work, and I prefer the LCDs, even for graphics work. The sharpness of LCDs is extraordinary; it's especially unforgiving of JPEGs, as I can see a lot more distortion on these than I can on a CRT. It did take me a while to get the color balance decent, though--and even longer to get both monitors to match each other. But I can fit two of these on my desk without having to use industrial-strength support. The two together weigh less than a single 21" monitor.

The Panasonic unit looks interesting but it's probably going to be a very niche item. Most people can't justify two monitors in their minds, even though once you use one seriously for work, you end up liking it quite a bit. (You can pry my second monitor from my cold, dead fingers.)

It saves some space, but...

[Agent Green]

...there had better be a lot more to it for me to give up my 2x1600x1200 + 1x1280x1024 displays.

Get just the multiple monitors...

[UncleRoger]

I'm thinking I'd rather see that available as a separate monitor, than as an integrated, all-in-one PC.

Then simply go to Mass, Inc. and pick a system with up to 4 15- or 18-inch LCD screens. I'll take the C3H18, thank you.

(This was posted previously on Slashdot, but it took me a while to find it.)

Re:Get just the multiple monitors...

[stevarooski]

The C3H18 sells for $3,995. . .Its little brother, the C3H15, goes for $2,265. For comparison, the Apple 22" Studio display everyone's been drooling over for over a year now retails for $2,499.00 (and I believe started out retailing for $500 more). Is it just me, or am I noticing a discrepancy here? 3x15" or 18", or 1x22"?

Anyone actually used one of these LCD systems? Are they of good quality?

Re:Dual head.

[nomadic]

Wish they would just start caching the damn sites. The excuses given in the FAQ are unconvincing at best; google caches just about everything, and I haven't heard of people complaining to them over loss of banner ad revenue. Maybe it's because they don't want to take the effort of doing it; these are editors who won't spell/grammar-check a few lines they post maybe once a day.

More monitors -vs- bigger monitors.

[mindstrm]

This is something people seem to disagree on.

A large monitor is great. A bigger monitor is better.

But for somethings.. 2,3, or 4 displays can be handy... especially when you really aren't after one big desktop (like, for widescreen movies, spreadsheets, etc). or graphics (because you end up with color variances between displays, etc).
Multiple monitors can be very handy... like, one web page open in one to read documentation... and my editor on the bigmonitor....

Every multi-head setup I've had involved a central, main screen (19" or 21") and smaller, 17 or 15 inchers on the sides.. these were usually used to just stick monitoring windows, slashdot.. whatever on . The central big one is for the work.

This side by side setup looks great for office work.. not great for games.

Re:Dual head.

[jgerman]

Same difference, one keyboard, one mouse, two monitors, cases.

Re:Dual screens

[MaxVlast]

Exactamundo. I haven't had a one-screen system (save my PowerBook) for many years now. My NeXT had three monitors (central screen, palette/file browser screen, terminal screen.) My G4 has two (primary, large screen and secondary, palette, old Apple monitor screen.) It's just not the same. With two screens, I can relegate things to the other screen and just know that they're there for me when I need them. One large screen has nothing goin' on two. Even if I did get that great big one you're talking about, I'd probably still put another video card in my Mac to hold all of the annoying things that clutter up the primary monitor.

Re:Dual head.

[LoudMusic]

Ah yes, one gets a little slower RAMDAC, but I think the refresh rate comes out the same. You're right about the color issue, though. One is a slight blue and the other comes out a bit red. VERY ANNOYING and I'm just your average geek. I do, however, work at an advertising agency ... maybe their desire for the finer visuals has started rubbing off on me. (:

~LoudMusic

Re:OT: AGP

[LoudMusic]

Very good information, and I can see why there are still only one on motherboards. But this doesn't mean there has to only be one. How about comm ports? Or parallel ports? I think it would be important to keep each AGP on its own bus, which would make the task even easier ... that coming from my very uneducated electrical-engeniering self.

~LoudMusic

multiple montiors with VNC

[cosyne]

I've been using some manner of dual head system for a few years. Once you get used to having the real estate, it's hard to go back. I now have a pc with one big AGP-connected monitor and a secondary 17in runnig on a pci card, which is great for non-graphics intensive stuff like a terminal window, mp3 player, contact manager/schedule, but mainly for displaying documentation or assignments or other useful info while i'm coding on the bigger monitor.

Anyways, my point was that i end up using my extra monitors for simple stuff like showing a text document, which could easily be done by an old laptop or obsolete pentium desktop you have lying around. So, you can use x2vnc or win2vnc to link the computers together. I use this to set my laptop next to some other display, and i can mouse over, even copy and paste, like both displays were on the same system.

I might be excited if...

[MrResistor]

...it weren't for Panasonics crappy support. They are absolutely the worst of any company I have ever dealt with. I finally discovered their secret, though. After many hours on the phone with their Tech Support (actually, many hours on hold with sporadic contact with alleged Support Techs) I finally got ahold of someone who knew something, and was informed that Panasonic only supports Canadians.

OK, he didn't actually say that, but if you're looking for Panasonic drivers that actually work you have to go to their Canadian site.

Re:DDC

[Alan Partridge]

yep, I knew all that - DDC is a standard, and a highly useful one at that. DXGA is a meaningless acronym deliberately designed to confuse consumers. "A DXGA screen? wow! that's even better than XGA! this screen must be better than YOUR crappy XGA one..." Heffe, what is a plethora?

Re:Not entirely a new concept

[Alan Partridge]

if you got a big kick out of that, I wonder what you'd make of www.panoram.com. Put your credit card away before you visit the site though...

P A N O R A M

[Alan Partridge]

I don't much like the look of this Panasonic set-up, looks like a novelty rather than a productivity boost. Try http://www.panoramtech.com/ for a better solution...