Australian Commisssion Defends Playstation Mod-Chipping

newt writes "The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is intervening in a court case to defend Sony Playstation owners' right to modify their consoles to play imported games. The ACCC is submitting a friend of the court brief, arguing that Sony's regional playback controls are unlawful. This has implications for DVD region zoning too: The ACCC has previously published its concerns about DVD regioning, and its latest press release about this case reiterates the problems presented to Australian consumers by Sony's practices."

Comments

hmm.

[Graspee_Leemoor]

Lucky Australians!

graspee

Re:hmm.

[mallie_mcg]

Lucky Australians!

Unfortunately we still have that luddite of the Millenia "Brian Harradene", grrr. I must admit that i like the ACCC they seem to be the only government department that actually sticks up for the little people!

Re:hmm.

[iamplasma]

Brian Harradine hasn't been in government for years. Unless I'm much mistaken, he finished up his senate term in 1998,. Also, what did he have to do with DVDs?

Re:hmm.

[dowlingw]

Lucky Australians my ass. *grumbles about Telstra and broadband*

Re:hmm.

[mallie_mcg]

Harradine got in at the last election, and is still there making our lives miserable. I admit that he has nothing to do with modchips or DVDs, but i was making the point that whilst we have the ACCC who are doing the right thing by the australian public, we still have people "representing" us, who could not care what the constiuancy wants, as long as their own narrow minded views are met. Making the point that it is not all good in australia.

Good

[inkypi]

I'm glad some countries have some sense.

This mod chip...

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the difference between a mod chip'd console and a non-modded console? Besides being able to play foreign games, of course.

What is the technical difference?

Re:This mod chip...

[bbk]

A good description of (psx) mod chipping can be found here:

http://www.vguys.com/modchip.htm

Basically, modchips allow the console to boot discs from another region, by changing CD subcodes to a universal format. It makes it so that other region disks boot, with the side effect of allowing CD-R copies to be played. So it's a region and copy protection go around.

Other consoles (Gamecube, Saturn) have simple switch mods that allow region changing, and some (Xbox, Gameboy color/advance) have no region checking.

BBK

Re:This mod chip...

[8string]

Imagine if your car would only accept gasoline from your homestate (let's say California).

When you take a vacation to Arizona, the gas is much, much cheaper, but alas won't run in your car because the signature chemical is missing. You have to buy special "California" gas at a premimum.

Techincally, there's no difference between an AZ car and a CA car, except that artificial price controlling mechanisms have been put in both cars making the fuel from one state non-interchangable with the other. It's a way to create an artificial market and shut out competition.

Do you get it now?

Re:This mod chip...

[8string]

I guess to me, the 'technical' part seems simple. different encoding requires different codec. No big story there. Just trying to help anyhoo, and sorry if you felt 'talked down to' or something. 8)

Re:This mod chip...

[iamplasma]

As I understand, there are two types of mod chip, ones which only undo region coding, and ones which also override copy protection. I'm 100% for the anti-region coding ones, but when they are available, what honest justification is there to support the ones that override copy protection? Seriously, it's pretty rare that anyone needs to play a copy, apart from the exceptionally rare legitimate backup.

Re:This mod chip...

[Zenki]

This is not the case on the PSX because the region code serves as the copy protection. Sony's engineers are a bunch of weenies.

Re:This mod chip...

[iamplasma]

Then why does the link given above say that there is such a mod chip? Not to mention that I've heard of it elsewhere as well.

Re:This mod chip...

[tkrotchko]

"but when they are available, what honest justification is there to support the ones that override copy protection? "

How about this justification:

"When I buy a piece of hardware, its mine to do with as I want"

Re:This mod chip...

[iamplasma]

But it's something which has basically no purpose than that which is illegal.

I want to buy a gun, and be able to shoot people with it, it's mine to do with as I please. I want to buy chemicals, and make drugs out of them, after all, they are mine to do with as I please.

Finally some high up agency doing something

[jpt.d]

I doubt it would ever happen in the United States, which would also mean it probably wouldn't ever happen in Canada either.

Pity.

Re:Finally some high up agency doing something

[ryants]

I doubt it would ever happen in the United States, which would also mean it probably wouldn't ever happen in Canada either

The real problem here (Canada), I believe (which is code for "I'm talking out of my ass, but it kind of makes sense, so bear with me") is that consumers are apathetic: except for a few tentacle Anime loving freaks, nobody here cares about region coding, because we're in Region 1, and get all the Hollywood flicks pretty cheap.

In other regions, where the region coding is used as a price control (read: gouging), consumers are little more irrate. Hence government action.

Re:Finally some high up agency doing something

[issachar]

pretty much, although it's not just the anime freaks that care.

I buy DVD's, but the feature I care most about is the multiple audio track and subtitle feature. However, finding versions of my CD's with English, French and Spanish is actually quite difficult. I find it irritating that I could get the same title in Europe with those languages and more, but I'm not into hacking my DVD player.

Unfortunately, bilingualism just isn't as big here as in the rest of the world.

If I had my way, every DVD would have at least 3 languages and subtitles and/or closed captions.

Re:Finally some high up agency doing something

[stpats]

Why would you want three languages available on a DVD for non-commercial home use? Original language and one dubbed language/subtitles would seem to suffice if using a DVD for personal home exhibition, which all a consumer is entitled to do with them.

Separate English/French and English/Spanish titles would make sense in region 1, but you shouldn't need three on one disc, although if there is room on the DVD, it would make economic sense for the studio to release discs with all three together. But I don't see how they could be faulted for covering the bases with separate English/French and English/Spanish discs.

Re:Finally some high up agency doing something

[issachar]

Simple. I speak French, and I know people who speak Spanish. Keeping up a foreign language is difficult, but it makes it a bit easier if you can listen to a movie in the language.

If I'm going to buy a DVD, I'd like to get a lot of use out of it. Being able to listen in French gives me more use.

Australian sense

[Penrod Pooch]

is sense I don't need

This is good

[91degrees]

Unfortunately, it isn't going to help an awful lot. While this may prevent Sony from control through technological means, they can still use Australias draconian censorship policies to stifle the releases that way.

All they have to do is make sure that all their releases have some content that is banned in Australia, and sponsor raids against the importers. Then they get legislation passed REQUIRING them to add region control.

Re:This is good

[iamplasma]

How exactly would they do this?

Sony Management Office
"Boss, the Monsters Inc. Playstation game has been finished"
"Excellent, what have we done to stop those Australians from getting it"
"Well boss, every time it starts up, we have an image of Harry raping a prostitute, that ought to get it banned there"
"Excellent -evil laugh-"

Seriously, it's not like they could or would do that, unless they want every game to be rated adults-only worldwide.

Why?

[gillbates]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that the United States is the only industrialized country which actively takes rights away from its own citizens.

It would seem that the U.S. is no longer the defender of the free world - for a country which values freedom so much, we are doing less than others to protect it. Why is it that Australia, the EU, and Russia (yes, our former enemy) are going to bat to defend the liberties of individual citizens while our government is actively taking them away?

I used to be proud to be an American.

Re:Why?

[starduste]

I'm not sure of the other countries, but in Australia, we have no rights given to us in the Constitution. Therefore, we have hundreds of civil groups, telling us *why* it's important the government does not take away our freedom. On the other hand, in America, those groups simply claim that the government can't do that (whatever that may be) because of the Constitution - hence some people simply say "oh well, doesn't seem too important anyway". Because we are constantly told why it's important in Australia, we value those freedoms much more, and create a huge uproar when politicians try and take it away.

Re:Why?

[djwavelength]

America has been a corporate run nation for quite a few years now. We aren't citizens, we're just consumers.

For some good history on the subject, take a look at http://www.adbusters.org/ (i'm too lazy to link.)

Re:Why?

[tcd004]

I'm familliar with the emotions that lead you to make this post, but you should think a little more carefully before making such rash generalizations. In most countries in the world, you wouldn't even be provided a forum to make such a statement.

Hell, Australia has banned the videogame grand theft auto 3.

In the U.S. banning any form of media on a federal level is nearly (not completely) impossible.

tcd004

Re:Why?

[Grax]

I wondered the same thing after the arrest of Skylarov.

Re:Why?

[Brendan Byrd]

Yeah, that's why GTA3 is banned over there, and there's censorship abroad on the Internet in the down under.

Re:Why?

[Cruciform]

Ugh. Adbusters gets left in the washroom at work so of course it gets read here, but while some of the points they make are valid they're no less hypocritical than anyone else. The magazine is all flash and no bang, berating anything and everything in the media while using the same tactics to say "Hey, everyone, look at me reading this pretty flash magazine! I'm cool cuz I'm CULTURE JAMMING!" An example would be directions on how to protest at stores by dropping stink bombs in them. That's not a political statement, that's being an asshole.

Not intended as a troll or a direct attack on previous poster. Just sick of adbusters holier than thou approach. (One plus though is that they DO print letters which put them down for those exact same reasons)

Re:Why?

[sholden]

Go read the constitution, we have a number of rights both stated implicitly and infered by various high court decisions.

Australia has nothing like a bill of rights, the Australian constitution limits the powers the Federal Government has over the States, and also limits what the domain of the State governments a bit as well. The only limitations I can find are:

41. No adult person who has or acquires a right to vote at elections for the more numerous House of the Parliament of a State shall, while the right continues, be prevented by any law of the Commonwealth from voting at elections for either House of the Parliament of the Commonwealth.

51.(i.) Taxation; but so as not to discriminate between States or parts of States:

51.(xxiiiA.) The provision of maternity allowances, widows' pensions, child endowment, unemployment, pharmaceutical, sickness and hospital benefits, medical and dental services (but not so as to authorize any form of civil conscription), benefits to students and family allowances:

99. The Commonwealth shall not, by any law or regulation of trade, commerce, or revenue, give preference to one State or any part thereof over another State or any part thereof.

100. The Commonwealth shall not, by any law or regulation of trade or commerce, abridge the right of a State or of the residents therein to the reasonable use of the waters of rivers for conservation or irrigation.

Whereas the list of things they can do is quite a bit longer:

51. The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:-

(i.) Trade and commerce with other countries, and among the States:

(ii.) Taxation; but so as not to discriminate between States or parts of States:

(iii.) Bounties on the production or export of goods, but so that such bounties shall be uniform throughout the Commonwealth:

(iv.) Borrowing money on the public credit of the Commonwealth:

(v.) Postal, telegraphic, telephonic, and other like services:

(vi.) The naval and military defence of the Commonwealth and of the several States, and the control of the forces to execute and maintain the laws of the Commonwealth.

(vii.) Lighthouses, lightships, beacons and buoys:

(viii.) Astronomical and metereological observations:

(ix.) Quarantine:

(x.) Fisheries in Australian waters beyond territorial limits:

(xi.) Census and statistics:

(xii.) Currency, coinage, and legal tender:

(xiii.) Banking, other than State banking; also State banking extending beyond the limits of the State concerned, the incorporation of banks, and the issue of paper money:

(xiv.) Insurance, other than State insurance; also State insurance extending beyond the limits of the State concerned:

(xv.) Weights and measures:

(xvi.) Bills of exchanging and promissory notes:

(xvii.) Bankruptcy and insolvency:

(xviii.) Copyrights, patents of inventions and designs, and trade marks:

(xix.) Naturalization and aliens:

(xx.) Foreign corporations, and trading or financial corporations formed within the limits of the Commonwealth:

(xxi.) Marriage:

(xxii.) Divorce and matrimonial causes; and in relation thereto, parental rights, and the custody and guardianship of infants:

(xxiii.) Invalid and old-age pensions:

(xxiiiA.) The provision of maternity allowances, widows' pensions, child endowment, unemployment, pharmaceutical, sickness and hospital benefits, medical and dental services (but not so as to authorize any form of civil conscription), benefits to students and family allowances:

(xxiv.) The service and execution throughout the Commonwealth of the civil and criminal process and the judgements of the courts of the States:

(xxv.) The recognition throughout the Commonwealth of the laws, the public Acts and records, and the judicial proceedings of the States:

(xxvi.) The people of any race, for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws:

(xxvii.) Immigration and emigration:

(xxviii.) The influx of criminals:

(xxix.) External Affairs:

(xxx.) The relations of the Commonwealth with the islands of the Pacific:

(xxxi.) The acquisition of property on just terms from any State or person for any purpose in respect of which the Parliament has power to make laws:

(xxxii.) The control of railways with respect to transport for the naval and military purposes of the Commonwealth:

(xxxiii.) The acquisition, with the consent of a State, of any railways of the State on terms arranged between the Commonwealth and the State:

(xxxiv.) Railway construction and extension in any State with the consent of that State:

(xxxv.) Conciliation and arbitration for the prevention and settlement of industrial disputes extending beyond the limits of any one State:

(xxxvi.) Matters in respect of which this Constitution makes provision until the Parliament otherwise provides:

(xxxvii.) Matters referred to the Parliament of the Commonwealth by the Parliament or Parliaments of any State or States, but so that the law shall extend only to States by whose Parliaments the matter is referred, or which afterwards adopt the law:

(xxxviii.) The exercise within the Commonwealth, at the request or with the concurrence of the Parliaments of all the States directly concerned, of any power which can at the establishment of this Constitution be exercised only by the Parliament of the United Kingdom or by the Federal Council of Australasia:

(xxxix.) Matters incidental to the execution of any power vested by this Constitution in the Parliament or in either House thereof, or in the Government of the Commonwealth, or in the Federal Judicature, or in any department or officer of the Commonwealth.

Note that over time the States have transferred some of their powers to the Commonwealth giving them a larger domain than indicated. Also it is a reasonably common enough occurance for the Commonwealth to convince all the states to pass a law, in effect making a commonwealth law that they are not supposed to make. I guess this is *much* easier in Australia with only 6 states than in the US.

We have universal gun control in this country - something campaigned for by the Commonwealth government.

In the state I live we have 'move-on' laws, so the police can force you to leave a public area, public assembly without approval is illegal, distribution of pamphletes without authority is illegal, broadcasting without authority is illegal (having your walkman up to loud is a crime), skateboarding, bike riding, and the wonderful phrase to have in law 'anything of that nature' in a public space is illegal without authority, you can be banned from said public space for life for breaching those laws, the police can enter a permise without a warrant if they think it is being used for drug crimes...

It's amazing what the government will do when it doesn't have a bill of rights restructing it when something like the Olympics comes along.

Of course these laws are not enforced in a manner that makes it a police state - but that's not the point, they could be in the future.

Re:Why?

[chris_mahan]

Absolutely, and that's why I vote with the dollar bill every day.

Think of it: Corporations with money are the ones that pay lobbyists, who in turn pressure politicians into doing what the CORPS want regardless of their campain promises.

Much more effective way to grease the wheel that squeaks than vote one every 4 years for a bunch of flag-waving, baby-kissing liars.

As far as the Aussies: Way to ding those Japs.

[note to self: check sarcasm at the door]

Re:Why?

[Mandelbrute]

Well, if you really think the EU ...

I think the point of the article is - "Look guys, someone is trying to stop purely commercial regional restrictions on software."

Once the lawyers can say that it has happened in country X (or in this case XXXX) their arguments have more weight, despite the differences in legal systems.

Re:Why?

[iamplasma]

Well... how else can we ever sign a treaty and have it take effect, given that the states can't do it?

Re:Why?

[iamplasma]

You think that's a problem? Check out the entire section on this in the NSW state constitution.

The Legislature shall, subject to the provisions of the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act, have power to make laws for the peace, welfare, and good government of New South Wales in all cases whatsoever: Provided that all Bills for appropriating any part of the public revenue, or for imposing any new rate, tax or impost, shall originate in the Legislative Assembly.

Basically, this says "The NSW government can do whatever the hell it feels like, except a few things only the federal government can do". So there's NO restrictions at all. However, I must admit I prefer it this way on the whole, as a constitutional bill of rights can be problematic, and in reality, I don't consider there to be any real possibility of extreme rights abuses in the forseeable future.

Re:Why?

[dricher]

Freedom of Speech and Press: the US is one of the few countries in their world where we don't have government operated newspapers, radio and television stations. Are you saying that having dozens of independently owned newspapers, multiple privately owned TV networks and several private radio stations in each city doesn't make your press free if there's even _one_ government owned station? I'm sure the people of Australia, Britain, Canada, Ireland, France, Italy and a lot of other European nations would be happy to hear that. The issue is not what the government puts on the airwaves itself. The issue is what it does to restrict or prevent private individuals using the airwaves.

Re:Why?

[mpe]

I'm not sure of the other countries, but in Australia, we have no rights given to us in the Constitution. Therefore, we have hundreds of civil groups, telling us *why* it's important the government does not take away our freedom. On the other hand, in America, those groups simply claim that the government can't do that (whatever that may be) because of the Constitution - hence some people simply say "oh well, doesn't seem too important anyway".

What will protect people's rights is people prepared to voice them and defend them. A written consitution is only good for describing what those rights might include. Without something to back it up it's just ink on paper, give any government long enough (200 odd years is more than enough) and they can find sufficent loopholes in any piece of text.
There is also the problem of a written constitution taking on the role of a "sacred text", where people can simply quote the words, but fail to understand the meaning.

Re:Why?

[cyber-vandal]

Given that your media is controlled by a few mega-corps who basically choose who you're able to vote for, I'd say your media is controlled by the government, just not by their puppet Dubya.

Re:Why?

[Turiya]

> ...EU (confisticatory taxes, government owned media), ...

I think you are oversimplyfing something here. You can always "step out of the church" (I don't know what the right word is this is a verbatim translation) and don't have to pay the taxes any more. (Its not that I like the Churches collecting taxes, since I belive, that Religions have to much influence all together, but thats another topic)

As for Goverment owned Media, where is your problem? It isn't that we only have GOM, we also have more then enough private media stations, so you can always choose.

Besides, and that is far more important, the ownership of the state is also as far as the influence gets. The GOM, doesn't get paid by taxes, but by a separate fund, which everybody who owns a television has to pay (Its kind of an obligatory Pay-TV if you like) The Gouvernment has no say in Budget or Program these Stations do. The GOM have an obligation, that it has to be reaceved in every Home, and because it doesn't have to think overly much of Quotes and aquiering Comercials, (in fact they are not allowed to air comercials after 20:00) They can do a program for minoritys at a very high level.

If you take the time to actually watch some (for example) news, on this "Unfree" GOM in the EU, you will see, that they are more objective and have a less Goverment influenced Oppinion, than for example the "free" CNN or even NBC

Fabio

Re:Why?

[F_Prefect]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that the United States is the only industrialized country which actively takes rights away from its own citizens.

It's not that I am not proud to be an American. I am. I am very proud of my country. The only thing is that I am VERY afraid of my goverment. It's really not the country that is taking away our rights, it's the idiots, the people that we wouldn't want to invite into our own homes that are being bought by big buisness and taking our rights away.

Re:Why?

[Arandir]

First, government doesn't compete in the marketplace. The mere presence of a government press outlet is an *artificial* economic burden on all non government press. A radio or television station is a business. You have to sell your product. The price the consumer pays for it is having to watch advertising, subscribe to cable service, or something similar. But a government press outlet is supported through taxation.

Second, the taxation. It may not restrict its non governmental competitors, but it certainly restricts YOU. You ahve to pay for it whether or not you use it.

The existance of government press may not by itself restrict you from using the airwaves, but it still restricts you.

Re:Only good use for region coding...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd guess on the left since Austrilia was basically a british colony if I remember correctly. (well British jail anyway :) So I'd guess on the left... but that's ok, you can drive on either side of the road in GTA3 and the cops still won't pull you over. You basically have to shoot someone, run someone over, bump another car hard enough for the cop notice, or tug on one of the cops doors to get in trouble. :) They'll also get you if you blow up stuff too. They get really pissed if you blow up air planes or helicopters. :)

Re:Only good use for region coding...

[arget]

nah, that's doa3. The shooter. I was talking about the racing simulator. Or was that humor? I injured my funny bone today. It hurts to laugh.

Re:Only good use for region coding...

[orkysoft]

I have GTA 1, but it really looks like it's situated in an American city, where they drive on the right. So an Australian version with cars in an American city driving on the left would be rather stupid, don't you agree?

mod chip uses

[BigBir3d]

1. region encoding work around.
2. copied game work around.

I think the second will hold up in court :-(

Re:mod chip uses

[duren686]

There are mod chips (for the PSX, at least) that are specifically coded to only play imports but not copies. It's quite a neat trick, and I'm not sure how they accomplish it, but I've heard many a story about guys complaining about their modchip "not working" because it was an "imports-only" chip.

Call me stupid, but...

[lorcha]

... when I purchase a piece of hardware, can't I do whatever I want with it? Recognizing that it might void the warranty, of course...

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[ender81b]

Nope. You can't. Welcome to the Post-DMCA world of mega-corporations and huge amounts of lobbying money.

You see, it's all One's and Zero's. They are the One's and we are the Zero's. No matter how many AND operations you perform 1 AND 0 will always = 1.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[Penrod Pooch]

Most likely not, politicians all over the world have been busy selling out the little guys rights to big corporations for the last few decades. See stuff like MAI and fast track

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[Osty]

No matter how many AND operations you perform 1 AND 0 will always = 1.

Funny, I always thought that 1 AND 0 = 0. The only way to get 1 out of an AND is to do 1 AND 1. Perhaps you meant OR?

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[eric_aka_scooter]

Speak it, brother! How's that old geek saying go... "if you aren't voiding the warrenty, then you aren't even trying."

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[Darren.Moffat]

The DMCA is a US specific law that does not apply outside of the US.

This case is about a Japanese based company and Australian law - so how does DMCA have any impact ?

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[Jack_of_Hearts]

Ok, stupid.

If you read the article, you'd know that the lawsuit is concerning a business installing mod chips, not the end user. Your statement may or may not be true, but it completely misses the point.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[ender81b]

Sigh. Yeah. It's been awhile since CSE 101

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[clark625]

Generally speaking, yes. You can take it completely apart, poke and prod all the bits, and otherwise reverse-engineer to your heart's content. The DMCA wasn't really intended to limit this type of behaviour. You won't find agents at your door because you took apart your PlayStation 2 or Xbox, or whatever. If you own it, you can do as you like.

The sticky part comes when you publish (via the internet or otherwise) a direct method to circumvent any copy protections. It also gets more hairy when you offer to sell bits and pieces for what can circumvent those protections. If I produce a piece of equipment (with patents, copyrights, etc. over that), I should also have the expressed right over how I want to license 3rd party manufacturer's.

You can buy a PS2 controller from other companies besides Sony. But Sony gets a piece of that product, because they own the machine that it is intended for. When we start to talk about mod chips, Sony doesn't see any of that. They haven't licensed these products, and it's quite likely that these manufacturers are using Sony's registered names and trademarks (I mean, they are called PS2 mod chips...). Also, mod chips allow for Sony to further lose control over their licensing by way of "3rd party" games in the form of piracy.

Personally, I think Sony is stuck in a position where they can't win. If they don't go after these companies who sell mod chips, they risk losing their licenses, trademarks, etc. These things have to be protected. On the other hand, if they go after mod chip vendors, it looks like they are just being bullies.

Of course, you still can do whatever you want to your own hardware in your own home. Sony doesn't really care to break down the doors of even those people who purchased a mod chip. It isn't in their interest--and the government doesn't give a darn (cause the burden of proof is high to get a search warrant). Heck, I have a DVD player in pieces in my basement because I'm curious how it works--but under no circumstance will that allow the manufacturer to come into my house to see if I've broken a copyright protection mechanism. Once I start selling chips, though.... all bets are off.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[MindStalker]

well they coulda won easily if they had not put region encoding in it.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[8string]

The warranty is void when you open the case.

If the case is considered to be a copyright protection measure, then opening the case puts you in violation of the DMCA.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[Aexia]

>>If I produce a piece of equipment (with patents, copyrights, etc. over that), I should also have the expressed right over how I want to license 3rd party manufacturer's.

Didn't this already get settled with Nintendo vs. Game Genie? AFAIK, you can make unlicensed games that work with any system and sell them.

3rd party controller manufacturers, I imagine, pay Nintendo a fee in exchange for specs, standards and support to ensure compatibility with the system.

The sticking point, of course, is the DMCA which makes these kind of circumventions illegal. AFAIK though, they don't have an DMCA-equivalent in Australia.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[abolith]

couldn't have ment OR as a 0 and 0 will equal 0.

there is no gate that ALWAYS equals 0, there owuld be no point you would just set the pin to "Low".

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[GooberToo]

Heck, I have a DVD player in pieces in my basement because I'm curious how it works--but under no circumstance will that allow the manufacturer to come into my house to see if I've broken a copyright protection mechanism. Once I start selling chips, though.... all bets are off.

So if I create a mod chip for my car and resale my technology, you're telling me that the manufacturer is due some profit from my efforts even though it was developed completely without their help? That's insane! What if I develope an IR to RF converter for my Sony remote control which I developed without any of Sony's help. Should Sony get a peice of the pie? Of course not. If I state that these devices function with with a Sony system and a Pontiac car (common practice on many items commonly available from most stores), in what way am I violating their trademarks or patents? Since this goes on every day with cars and many other goods, in what way is this any different for a gaming console. Last I heard, Ford, Chevy, Pontiac, etc., have not lost their trademarks nor had their patients violated by these systems. The car metaphore is very close to home as it modifies the car's operation to function in a manner different than comes from the manufacurer. So what's the issue. This is no way shape or form, constitutes a patent or trademark violation. In fact, last I heard (uncomfirmed), Sony is in violation of internation trade laws by placing the zoning logic into their devices (as is every electronic device which has restrictive zoning logic).

As for the ruling that the concept is illegal, there is clearly LOTS of prior cases which invalidate the courts ruling, clear and simple! Simply put, the judge is a moron. Based on his assertion allow for only a slight extension of his logic, if I purchase a book from another country and it is locally available from another publisher, I've now violated copyright. That's insane. When will these judges realize that just because the word "computer" or "electronic" is used it doesn't somehow invalidate logic or all other laws based on simular technologies.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[dillon_rinker]

Dude. That's like replying "It's been a long time since 1st grade" when someone points out that 1+1=2. Some things you are not allowed to forget if you wish to remain a geek. :)

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[mgv]

Nope. You can't. Welcome to the Post-DMCA world of mega-corporations and huge amounts of lobbying money.

Of course, the DMCA is US law. If that was an Australian post, its still pretty much legal to mod your PS.

In fact, if the ACCC wins this one, then we could set up mod chip making factories in Australia without fear of prosecution.

Michael

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[ender81b]

Just trying to point out that anymore it seems like the consumer (where ever they are) are always on the losing end of the stick.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[JPawloski]

I've NEVER seen a "underrated" before in the total moderation. Its always been funny, insightful, interesting, etc. etc. Is this a bug or is it just hard to get an "underrated"/"overrated" for the total moderation?

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[danielrose]

The DMCA does not apply to Australians, which this story is about :)

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[duren686]

What's better is how it's 5, Underrated.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[DumbRedGuy]

I agree that you should be able to do whatever you want to it. If I'm allowed to drop it out of my second story window, I should be allowed to do other things.

HOWEVER, I could do things with it that are illegal. For example, if I used it to play pirated games, that would be breaking the law--I'm not supposed to have pirated games. Just like if I dropped it out my window onto the passersby, that would be illegal because you are not supposed to hurt other people.

Maybe this has already been said (and if it has, I apologize), but it's like having a law to keep you from breaking the law. I think that is the big problem. Due to copyright laws that are unrealistic to enforce (but not necessarily bad laws), they need to pass a second law to help enforce the first one. I'm glad Australia stopped this. Unfortunately no one can think of a better way to enforce this than being overly preventative.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[cpt kangarooski]

So I can't carefully reverse-engineer IBM PC BIOS, make my own, and sell them? Even though there's no licensing involved or anything?

The computer besides my desk says you're wrong.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[clark625]

I like your car metaphor--and I think it can be applied here.

Generally, manufacturers can get around licensing issues with regard to automobiles because their items are general purpose, and have nothing to do with copyright, patents, or other property of the auto manufacturer.

Chilton's and Haynes pay a licensing cost to auto makers. This isn't a huge affair, but it does exist. You can say it's wrong and evil, but the fact is that these publishers make their money from reproducing information that for the most part belongs to the manufacturer. This doesn't stop any citizen from taking apart his brand new Mustang GT and measuring every component--it simply means that said individual can't just go out and sell that information to others without first consulting the proper owner of the designs.

Now, if a company began to produce modified EEPROMS for a particular car's computer, that could very well land that company in a court of law to answer charges. Yes, I know that there are people who do this--especially to Honda Civics. Obviously, Honda doesn't support this type of thing, and it voids your warranty. If this company takes open data from Honda (either through public information, published information, or licensing) and then uses that to produce a new EEPROM--all is fine. There isn't anything wrong with that.

What isn't okay is when a company reverse-engineers the existing EEPROM without any permission from the manufacturer, and then modifies that information for resale. That is the equivelent to reverse-compiling a company's software and then selling a modified version for profit, which is illegal in most every nation. In most cases, auto manufacturers have ways to publish or otherwise license most every detail about a car so that people can do as they please. It's like the GPL. But you can't get mad at a company if they don't feel the GPL is right for them--and you can't get mad about Sony not publishing this particular information.

No company has any right to go after citizens for reverse-engineering their products. That includes Sony, GM, Microsoft, and Aunt Millie's Pretzels. That has never been an issue, and my guess is that it never will become one. A company does have the right to protect their work and their product's design details from competitors, though. If Ford reverse-engineered a GM EEPROM, modified it, and then used that code on their new cars; there would be hell to pay. GM put time and money into that program and it can't be used without GM's permission. Similarly, you can't go trolling around for one of Betty Crocker's recipes and expect to sell either the recipe itself or products you made directly as a result of having that recipe.

Sony never made any information public regarding their PS2 hardware that would allow for a mod chip to be designed. They also never licensed anyone that information for such a use. It seems fair to say that any information regarding the hardware design came from either reverse-engineering or from individuals working for Sony who gave those secrets up. The companies who are producing these mod chips are using "fruit of the poisonous tree", so to speak. They can't show a legal means for them to have the information to produce the mod chips--such as a public document showing the internal schematics of the PS2 or some license with Sony that allows them to use that information as they please.

I suppose that I have difficulty seeing why it's unfair for Sony to attempt to control piracy, maybe even restrict use of some games because of their own internal marketting strategies. It's their system, for gosh sakes. They own it, they own the design, the name, the commericals, and they even own the right to say how much it will cost a company in licenses to develop software for their console. It isn't like there aren't two other competitors--Nintendo and Xbox. If Sony's tactics are so foul and evil; feel free to sell your hardware on Ebay and purchase something from someone else. You can speak louder by your purchasing habits than any other way. Don't think for a minute that Sony wouldn't find a way to allow for mod chips if their customers really desired them. Most people really don't care, though. They feel mod chips are only used for piracy and thus are immoral.

Re:Call me stupid, but...

[mpe]

Maybe this has already been said (and if it has, I apologize), but it's like having a law to keep you from breaking the law.

Which is rather redundant since anyone prepared to break the law generally dosn't care how many laws they break. Or rather they care about the law with the higest potential cost if they get caught.

Due to copyright laws that are unrealistic to enforce (but not necessarily bad laws), they need to pass a second law to help enforce the first one.

If the new law is excessivly broad to the point where it starts to look like considering peopkle guilty until proven innocent that it won't be obeyed anyway.

Australia? You've got to be kidding.

[Lemmy Caution]

Countries don't have sense. People do. Australia's internet policy is so astoundingly fucked up, and the environment there becoming quite censorious. This one development is a good one, but the civil liberties grass is NOT greener on that side of the Big Lake.

Re:Australia? You've got to be kidding.

[Boiling_point_]

Exactly - it's important not to confuse government policy (currently stupid and restrictive) with the ACCC - a government-funded but independent body that never gets listened to, except by the media.

Re:Australia? You've got to be kidding.

[Anonymous Coward]

> the ACCC - a government-funded but independent body that never gets listened to, except by the media.

You've got to be joking! The ACCC has been solely responsible for killing several telco price rises, preventing corporate mergers when a monopoly/oligopoly situation could result, keeping health fund prices down (currently under review again), reducing the price of music CDs, removing duties on blank recording media, and allowing parallel importing of software. I'm sure there's more, but that's enough off the top of my head to make the point

Whether they're right or wrong, they're certainly getting listened to by the present government!

And an american once said ...

[OzPeter]

I would rather live in a country founded by convicts, that one founded by puritans.

Re:And an american once said ...

[bovril]

"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine." George Washington

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Thomas Jefferson

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My mind is my own church." Thomas Paine

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redemming feature." Thomas Jefferson

"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." Abraham Lincoln

Re:And an american once said ...

[uspsguy]

I have seen most of these quotes before but I have never seen them attributed to any written or published work of these men. Without such supporting evidence, I have to assume they are the figments of someone's inagination.

Re:And an american once said ...

[Max the Merciless]

Without such supporting evidence, I have to assume they are the figments of someone's inagination.

I'd say exactly the same thing about the Bible and the so called "word of Jesus"... but I suppose you'd consider this a profanity.

Your hypocracy wreaks a foul odour

Re:And an american once said ...

[bovril]

Well, I lifted the quotes from The Real Frank Zappa Book by Frank Zappa who cites his source as Salvation for Sale by Gerard Thomas Straub. Sorry, but that's as far as I can trace that one back as I don't have a copy of Straub's book.

Sheesh. This is the thanks I get for trying to say that your country wasn't founded by puritans? Sure, a lot of them jumped off those those Mayflower, Pinto, Donna, Prancer, Blixen boats. But I'd like to think that the gentlemen I previously quoted had more to do with *founding* your country.

Ah, troll threads... ya gotta luv 'em.

Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[deviantonline]

I have never really understodd this. Why do video games and dvd's only play in certain parts of the world? What is the rationelle behind this?

As far as I know, VHS can be played everywhere (pal/ntsc versions) and computer software isnt limited to specific regions, so why are DVDs and Video Games?

Anything else limited this way? I can understand that diffrent countries have diffrent ratings and what not, but the fact that digital formats can block usage in diffrent regions of the world seems like a backwards thing to be doing in this time of freedom and what not.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[bigjocker]

The creators of the idea of DVD regions claimed that it would be used to deliver the DVD technology to relatively poor countries in a cheap way. For instance, soemody from India cant afford the prices in the US, so they have their own zone, with cheaper prices. This allows the diversity without destroying the US market.

But this idea (that doesnt sound bad at first) limits our rights over our own stuff. If i have a receipt for a buying, i must have the right to do anything with it. It doenst mean i can use the DVD to rip someone's head off, but i can play freebie with it if i feel like it.

What happens if i buy a DVD player and 100 movies and then moye to another continent?? is silly to restrict the use of something i legally bought.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[EboMike]

I have never really understodd this. Why do video games and dvd's only play in certain parts of the world? What is the rationelle behind this?

Region coding does make sense with DVDs. You see, there's often a long delay before US movies are released in other countries.

Take Memento: I had imported the DVD in September 2001 - but the movie didn't play in theaters in that country until December!

Movies cost a fortune, and the main income is still what flows through the box office. Now if a movie is released on DVD before it appears in theaters (and that happens very often), both movie theaters and studios would suffer.

VHS didn't have that region coding option, of course, because it was technically impossible at that time. But with DVD technology they've been thoughful enough to add it.

And as for games, well. My best guess is that SCEA, SCEE and SCEI are somewhat independent (they have different TRCs and regulations). And similar to movies, the release dates for the individual regions differ. Without a protection, Europeans would import the US version, SCEE would make less money. This may sound ridiculous cause "Sony is Sony", but keep in my that SCEE and SCEA have their own staff and budgets. A very prominent incident which touches this issue is the Infogrames Civ3 dilemma.

My personal stance about this whole thing is that it's a big hypocrisy. I mean, people are bitching about how their rights are being taken away and everything, but let's face it: How many of them are actually using imports? In 99% of all cases, the mod chip is used to play pirated games. Hey, we had this discussion before.

There was a chip for the PSX which allowed to circumvent the region coding but still prevented using CD-Rs. That's more like it. They should build one like that for the PS2 too. Let's see how many people care or even KNOW about that chip then.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[Teun]

Greed, greed and customer gouging is all that's behind it.
On the face of it it's of course different, protection of the cinema's and associated industries.
The fact these are not suffering in Region 1 where everything is NOT 6-12 months delayed is conveniently forgotten.
And when it's possible to make a profit in India with Indian prices it's equally possible with a similar price in Europe, the US or Australia.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[Teun]

No it does not make sense, nobody forced the US studio's to release their movies 6-12 months later in other countries.
This has no influence what so ever on the income of the studio's.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that it may take that long to subtitle, edit, and generally prepare the movie for foreign markets.

Maybe they should sit on the movie until they've readied it for all markets and then release simultaneously? Just like software, right?

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[AvatarADV]

It's not ALWAYS bad for the consumer. (At least, not all of them.)

We release Japanese animation at work. We also happen to release it for a -lot- cheaper than the Japanese release their own product in their own market. This brings up the question of reverse importation... they don't want their customers buying our DVDs.

Region coding means that there's a fairly simple means to prevent this. Their customers buy their discs and our customers buy our discs, and the Japanese companies don't worry about reverse importation. Our customers get a lower-priced product that way.

It also means that we're not pressured into doing OTHER things that would make our product unappealing to the Japanese audience, like adding hard subtitles to the video or removing the Japanese language track. These are, of course, things OUR consumers don't want to happen! But if they didn't have the region coding to fall back on, they'd settle for screwing up our version of the product, even if it meant our customers wouldn't be as happy with it.

Personally, I don't believe that we need to enshrine it in law; it's not meant to work in every case anyway, so why worry? But then again, we don't even use CSS, so we're not your typical DVD manufacturer.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[ektor]

Except that it may take that long to subtitle, edit, and generally prepare the movie for foreign markets.

Maybe they should sit on the movie until they've readied it for all markets and then release simultaneously? Just like software, right?

The main reason why movies are not released everywhere at the same time is simply that the same prints that are used for the US are then sent abroad. I don't know how much a print costs but for sure many thousands. Multiply that for a few thousand copies and you get a tidy sum.

If they wanted worldwide launches they could and if fact they do. One recent movie that had such a launch was Harry Potter. I think worlwide launches will be more common in the future since the world is shrinking continously and it makes sense to leverage your marketing dollars, which let's not forget these days are as much as the movie costs to produce. This will obviously be the case when they move to digital media.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[macom]

people are bitching about how their rights are being taken away and everything

I bought a Cricket game for Play Station in Australia last year and brought it back to the US to play on my US bought Play Station. It didnt work. I was not happy. I dont give a rats arse about regions or whatever, if i stick a play station cd in a play station the bloody thing better work.

mocom--

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[cpt kangarooski]

Nevertheless, the other customers suffer, and market inefficiencies rule the day. (aside from possible legal problems, since regions may be illegal conduct by the publishers depending on the countries involved)

It would be better for there to be price, release date, and feature parity. If the Japanese publishers were not being quite as greedy, there'd be no real incentive for reverse importation. Clearly it's possible -- you manage somehow, and the supply/demand curve would likely make up for it with greater sales volume.

Of course, me, I buy tons of anime... and I was looking at that NGE box set... but I really loathe both region coding, and bad disks that might make up for it. So I think I'll pass. Thanks.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[God! Awful]

I live in Canada. I have noticed that our cd releases are usually delayed by several months as compared to the US. We also pay a lower cost for our cds, when the exchange rate is taken into account.

In the last few years, it seems that there have been fewer domestic album releases, and the net result is that we pay more for music. I think this is probably due to the rise in sales over the Internet.

I'm disapointed because regionally targeted cds were saving me money.

Andrew

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[mpe]

Region coding does make sense with DVDs. You see, there's often a long delay before US movies are released in other countries.

It makes sense to the publisher, but only to them
Intersstingly not all material produced in the US get's relased on region 1 DVD first. TV series can appear on DVD outside the US long before they are released in the US. e.g. on another thread recently US posters were complaining they they could only get S1 Buffy on region 1 DVD.

Movies cost a fortune, and the main income is still what flows through the box office. Now if a movie is released on DVD before it appears in theaters (and that happens very often), both movie theaters and studios would suffer.

There is nothing actually stopping a worldwide release of any movie. (Or for that matter making a "trial release" outside the US.)

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[mpe]

Except that it may take that long to subtitle, edit, and generally prepare the movie for foreign markets.

Depends how they actually do the production. (Subtitling is generally done by the host country.) Anyway given that English is the worlds second most common language a huge number of people (several times the entire US population) outside the US can reasonably understand a US produced movie even without subtitles.
How do they cope with American Spanish and (Canadian French)???

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[mpe]

On the face of it it's of course different, protection of the cinema's and associated industries.
The fact these are not suffering in Region 1 where everything is NOT 6-12 months delayed is conveniently forgotten.

Actually region 1 customers can get to suffer too. But with television series rather than movies.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[Turiya]

> Region coding does make sense with DVDs. You see, there's often a long delay before US movies are released in other countries.

And why is it so? Does that make sense? Well here in Germany I could probably understand why, since the Movies get syncronated(? is that the word?) but why do they have to delay the start in GB?

And movies Like LOTR and Harry Potter have shown that it is no problem to release a movie at the same Date all over the world.

> but let's face it: How many of them are actually using imports?

Who cares, the few who do have a right to do so, and that right gets taken away from them. A Wrong doesn't get justifyed because it affects only a minority.

Fabio

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[markmoss]

Except that it may take that long to subtitle, edit, and generally prepare the movie for foreign markets.

1) You are assuming that videos without subtitles will out-compete theater presentations with them. If true, makes you wonder why the subtitles are needed...

2) Subtitles are hardly needed in Australia/NZ or Britain, but movie releases are delayed there, too. I doubt that subtitles do much good in India either (possibly the world's largest country), because there are a lot more Indians that understand English than understand any one of the many local dialects. I rather doubt that most films ever get subtitled in Malaysian, but then all educated Malaysians do more or less speak English, and the rest probably can't afford a movie ticket anyhow. And so on.

3) It should only take a few weeks to subtitle a movie anyhow. Or are you arguing that residents of other parts of the world should pay for the movie studios inefficiencies with delayed releases and higher prices?

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[Howie]

How many of them are actually using imports? In 99% of all cases, the mod chip is used to play pirated games.

Actually, in the case of the PS2 there are huge delays between a game's release in the US and other markets... Final Fantasy X, Metal Gear Solid 2 and Ico are all games I would play as imports, since I still can't buy them in the UK even though they came out in the US last year. I don't give a rat's arse about DVD playback, since I have a perfectly decent DVD player that doesn't require a game pad, and is already multi-region.

Your argument that DVD imports stop the studio from arbitrarily delaying the release of movies is at best circular, by the way. Harry Potter and LOTR both show that studios can release simultaneously worldwide if they want to.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[Howie]

For instance, soemody from India cant afford the prices in the US, so they have their own zone, with cheaper prices... But this idea (that doesnt sound bad at first)

In other words, US DVDs are deliberately overpriced because there are enough suckers who will pay the price? How does this idea not sound bad straight away? It sounds to me like you pay too much for your crack too.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[EboMike]

Region coding does make sense with DVDs. You see, there's often a long delay before US movies are released in other countries.

And why is it so? Does that make sense? Well here in Germany I could probably understand why, since the Movies get syncronated(? is that the word?) but why do they have to delay the start in GB?

No, the word is "dubbed". And the problem isn't the dubbing either; it's finding a company in the country to distribute the movie and coming to agreement regarding the deal. Less of a problem for big productions like LOTR and HP, obviously.

There's a lot going on behind the scenes before you can actually watch a movie in a theater. It's not like there's just a studio, they make a movie, hand out copies to theaters and everybody's happy.

Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway?

[Pig Hogger]

Movies cost a fortune, and the main income is still what flows through the box office. Now if a movie is released on DVD before it appears in theaters (and that happens very often), both movie theaters and studios would suffer.

Fuck'em. If they can't adapt, they should become extinct.

Let's hope it snowballs...

[Aexia]

Of course, Australia has to beat the region controls first. Let's assume they do.

I'm guessing the remedy would be to require players sold in Australia to be capable of playing all regions.

This would result in Australian DVD players being exported to other countries. This gets done already but usually they require mods or they're expensive. But if you have a legit source of "official" DVD players, I think they'll prove popular.

US DVD Player manufacturers will either see this as a threat(because people will buy Aussie DVD players instead of American ones) or as an extra cost of business(because they'll have to effectively produce two different types of the same players) and start lobbying for the right to produce region-free players here as well.

...

Then Sony brings down the wrath of the WTO and crushes this newly gained freedom in Australia and the fantasy comes to an end.

Re:Let's hope it snowballs...

[arget]

US DVD Player manufacturers will either see this as a threat(because people will buy Aussie DVD players instead of American ones) ... and start lobbying for the right to produce region-free players here as well.

OR, US manufacters or content distributers (MPAA) will lobby for an import ban on Aussie/region-free DVD players. It's not the manufacturers that want regional coding, it's the distributers, both as a way to control their copyright and for regional pricing flexibility.

Re:Let's hope it snowballs...

[elandal]

Uhh.. If You want a multi-region DVD player (any brand) in Finland, You go to any HiFi store and buy one. I would guess they sell multiregion players not just in HiFi stores, but in any consumer electronics store that sells DVD players at all.

Eg. I went to a normal HiFi store, and told them I want a DVD player. I talked for a moment about what I really want and need, how much I'm willing to pay, and so on. I asked offhand that "this is of course multi region?" and got a yes for that. I actually had to wait for a few days for my player because the model I wanted had sold better than they had expected, but later that week I picked my player up and have been happy with it ever since.

Costs more? Oh yes, they could've sold me an unmodded player for some 100€ less. However, as I knew I was buying mostly anime, which isn't available in Europe, it wasn't an option ever (OK, Japan is R2, but I don't know enough Japanese to not to need subtitles). I could've of course bought a standard US R1 player, but it would've cost me more (they're not generally available in Finland - modded one is cheaper).

To date, I have some 280 discs of which three are PAL R2 (European), the rest are NTSC R1, multiregion, or unrestricted. And not a single problem with the player.

Re:Let's hope it snowballs...

[arget]

You can buy 'em in the US too. They also ship to Australia.

Shhh! Don't tell anyone, though. The facts always interfere with a lively discussion.

Re:Let's hope it snowballs...

[Reality_X]

You can walk into any normal, consumer electronics store (Retravision, Betta, Harvey Norman, Whatever) and buy *factory* multi-region'ed DVD players in Australia, already.

Guess which brand is the only one that doesn't come multi-region'ed by default?

It starts with a S, and is mentioned in the article linked from this story.

Re:Let's hope it snowballs...

[Sven182]

Most of the big brands aren't multi-regioned by default, you have to pay extra for them. A typical multi-region Pioneer will cost you $100 more than an otherwise identical R4 model.

S

Re:Let's hope it snowballs...

[mpe]

If You want a multi-region DVD player (any brand) in Finland, s/Finland/anywhere in the EU/ You go to any HiFi store and buy one. I would guess they sell multiregion players not just in HiFi stores, but in any consumer electronics store that sells DVD players at all.

Costs more? Oh yes, they could've sold me an unmodded player for some 100 less.

You didn't say how much you paid, most likely the R2 only one is discounted because hardly anyone would buy it otherwise. I assume that it wasn't a cheap one in the 150-200 euro range...

Australia, prepare for our wrath!

[Anonymous Coward]

Given what the U.S. did to the Ukraine recently, I wouldn't be surprised if success by the ACCC would eventually find Australia up against sanctions. If the mod chips are allowed, then dvd region encoding will have a much easier time being banned or legally cracked in Australia. Any government that bans or allows cracks of region-encoding is circumventing the DMCA and even though the DMCA isn't international law you can be damn sure we're going to protect ourselves from terrorists like those in Australia. USA! USA! (Come on, chant with me...) Attica! Attica! I mean... USA! USA!

You Buy it it's yours, right?

[pretoris]

IMHO I think that once you pay several hundred dollars for a product it's yours and you're more than welcome to do anything to it you wish. If you feel the need to weld a lava lamp to the MB of the thing that's you're prerogative, ditto with a mod chip. Now, Motorola isn't required to offer warranty service on it after that, but if you're willing to risk the consequences you should be allowed to. Many industrialized nations are killing themselves slowly by over-lawing everything. To many laws do not a good country make.... Communications Decency Act anyone?

Re:its a fact...

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't 1/20 americans in Jail now?

As altruistic as it seems...

[Cruciform]

...we know the real reason behind it.

The politicians can't get enough Hentai Dating Simulation games. Never underestimate the power of a school girl uniform and a 20 foot long penis-tentacle.

Re:As altruistic as it seems...

[sprayNwipe]

That might not be as ludicrous as it sounds. The only state in Australia where hardcore porn and fireworks are allowed legally is the Australian Capital Territory - a state solely created for housing Parliment House, politicians and civil servants.

Re:As altruistic as it seems...

[gribbly]

trust you to know where hardcore porn is legal, Dan. "My friend must have put it in the magazine!". Yeah right... whatever...

=]

grib.

Of course

[Usekh]

..industry groups have been heavily pressuring the government to remove the current head of the ACCC (Dr Fells, who is rapidly becomming a hero of mine) and to limit their powers :P

This guy has challenged the CD monopoly of studios within Australia, is currently going after the British publishing houses that have sewed our book market shut..and now region coding..

Any wonder they are trying to remove him?

Best of luck to the Australians and Philips

[Tromso]

The movie studios claim they need regional coding to allow them to see which movies are successful in the US, before promoting and launching them elsewhere.

Outside of the US though, all we see is that we are paying higher prices to get movies long after they have been released in the US. It just feels anticompetitive to us as we could often import them more cheaply or buy them on holiday in the US.

Now the music companies are also trying to make music CD's you can't play/copy onto computers. I was interested to read that, Philips who licences the CD formats to other companies, isn't going along with this. Apparently if the music companies modify CD's not to play on computers, they mustn't use the standard "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo, as their modifications fall outside of this standard according to Philips. Philips is even looking at making CD writers that could cope with the modified CDs anyway.

See the article: Philips, the co-creator of the CD, is refusing to play along with music CDs that are designed to prevent playback on PCs

Consumer friendly policy

[bertok]

The ACCC is extremely consumer-friendly. I think their theory is that as long as there is demand, there will be a supply, but the reverse isn't true. The drug trade exemplifies this: Even though it's illegal to sell drugs, the demand is there, so people do it. The ACCC is simply applying the same philosophy to more ordinary situations: Keep the consumers happy by making their purchases safe for them, and they're likely to continue being consumers.

Over here, the government guarantees a "reasonable" minimum warranty on all purchased items, ignoring any "lets screw the customer" EULA-s or the like. I suspect that suing Microsoft for faulty software would succeed in Australia, but would fail in the US.

Logic

[MoneyT]

Let's restrict lot's and lot's of people from getting a product that makes their device use more products so that they won't be able to buy more products so that they can't give us more money, so that we can gouge them for more and more money, so that we can complain about how all their products that we want banned are actualy driving away money we don't have to begin with.

DVD region encoding [only slightly OT]

[bovril]

I wonder how long DVD region encoding would've lasted if it was the USofA that had to wait months for titles to be released (if at all)?

I want my Hollywood revisionist history epics now, dammit!!!!

Re:DVD region encoding [only slightly OT]

[rtaylor]

Like Futurama for instance?

Europe has them, has for some time now. I'd love to have them too -- so I resorted to downloading the episodes until they become available to purchase here.

Good quality too. I'd just mail (who exactly?) a cheque and call it even but then they'd probably try to arrest me or something.

Re:DVD region encoding [only slightly OT]

[bitrott]

Two shows... Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Futurama. Buffy Season 1 only just now became available in the US, in other regions it's been available for almost a year. Futurama Season 1 is recently available in the UK, it'll probably be several more months before we see a US release. Both cases have caused fans MUCH distress.

Re:DVD region encoding [only slightly OT]

[bovril]

Both good shows and point well taken.

But I'd class both these instances as exceptions rather than the rule. I know of a store here in Sydney that was renting US Region DVDs that hadn't yet been released at the cinema in Australia. It was making a tidy profit too... until the local distributors shut it down.

Re:DVD region encoding [only slightly OT]

[mpe]

I wonder how long DVD region encoding would've lasted if it was the USofA that had to wait months for titles to be released (if at all)?

Actually in some cases years. Just not enough angry Futurama and Buffy fans in the US yet... (N.B. stakes, crossbows and swords would appear to be covered by the second ammendment...)

Re:Let's hope it snowballs... (regionless players)

[darkewolf]

Taking DVD players as an example, almost everyone I know (except those that buy flashy sony models) has either a region-free dvd player (ignores region suggestions) or a auto-region dvd player (changes its 'region' internally depending on the disc.. this by-passes some of the newer region locked discs which wont play on region-free players).

Heck, in the next week or so, a few discs I had ordered from the US will arrive. They will play perfectly (thankfully the dvd player also converts NTSC-out to PAL-out).

beannachdan oirbh.

Target Costing

[asv108]

I think one of the motives behind the regional coding is target costing. The idea being that if Region A will buy 1000 DVD's at $9.99 and region D will buy 1000 DVD's at $15.99, you want to prevent region D from buying Region A DVD's at a substantial decrease. Besides profit being the motive, there is also a cost consideration. The cost of getting a DVD to market in Japan is much higher than it is in Florida. DVD companies want to prevent Japanese DVD buyers from skipping the normal channels.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not in favor of this, I'm just speculating as to the motivations behind it.

Re:Target Costing

[akintayo]

I know some s/w vendors use a similar policy to gouge customers. A current example would be Championship manager which seems to have only one source in the US, and most of the online dealers don't do foreign shipments.

Another example would be ID, which was releasing Doom 2 in the US about 2-3 months after releasing Doom in the UK. And the publisher with the UK rights sued the US retailers to prevent purchases by UK residents. BTW Doom was running with ~50% markup.

Re:Target Costing

[mpe]

I think one of the motives behind the regional coding is target costing. The idea being that if Region A will buy 1000 DVD's at $9.99 and region D will buy 1000 DVD's at $15.99, you want to prevent region D from buying Region A DVD's at a substantial decrease.

In which case maybe the entire process of creating a DVD for region A should be carried out in region A, ditto for region D...

The cost of getting a DVD to market in Japan is much higher than it is in Florida. DVD companies want to prevent Japanese DVD buyers from skipping the normal channels.

What if the Japanese person wants the film in American English?

Re:Target Costing

[markmoss]

The cost of getting a DVD to market in Japan is much higher than it is in Florida.

So, region coding protects inefficient retail stores and distributors from competition. Doesn't sound like a good thing to me.

Sony Might Stop Selling

[LowellPorter]

The problem I forsee is that Sony could stop selling Playstations in Austraila altogethor. If they think they might lose money over it, I'm sure they would seriously consider it.

Re:Sony Might Stop Selling

[Reality_X]

Not going to happen.
Modchip buying is the exception, rather than the rule. So it would be a very large (and costly, very costly, since they've sold a shitload of PS2's here) mistake. They won't do it. It may even cause enough backlash to totally kick Sony out of the Australia market. Which I can't really say would be a great loss. There are better quality products at the same (or lower) price.

Re:Only good use for region coding...

[i7dude]

last i checked GT3 is a racing game...how may car races have you seen where there are two opposing lanes of traffic???

dude.

Instead

[t_allardyce]

Instead of making laws, why don't governments simply educate the general population as to how much they are getting ripped off by DVDs, Playstations and Microsoft. If I was in charge I would fund a series of adverts that showed people exactly how much profit these companies make, how cheap it really is to press a CD, and how production costs aren't that high when split over millions of customers.

I would show them how they could live in a world where DVDs could be watched anywhere, where they weren't restricted as to when they could fast-forward, or copy, and how these massive companies bribe governments to restrict freedom. I would introduce them to the idea of operating systems other than Microsoft Windows(R) that were free and open so you couldn't hide malicious code in them.

You would think people would know this already, but you would be surprised how many non-slashdot readers honestly think that it costs _that_much_ to make a DVD, even though the studio has already made a massive box-office profit. People actually don't realise how much they are being ripped off and controlled. They have been completely conditioned.

Obviously I would probably be sued if I had these public-service-announcements made and showen, but thats how the world works.

Re:This is +5 Insightful?

[Mandelbrute]

I don't know where I'd be without pedantic generalizations.

Probably in the same place - you missed the word "some" - so much for a generalisation!

entire generations spending billions of dollars promoting democracies all over the globe

Yes, from the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli - global police for nearly two hundred years. I think this is straying wildly off the modchip topic!

In Australia, we don't tend to talk about "God Given Rights", we know that we don't have a right to remain silent - so when someone comes along to take away what we do have, even if it is just the ability to play games for the US market, then a lot of people take notice.

Just don't come here by boat - we'll send you somewhere else or lock you up in the desert!

GT != GTA

[yerricde]

last i checked GT3 is a racing game

GT == Gran Turismo. GTA == Grand Theft Auto. Yes, they do tend to be released in pairs (GT a couple months before the GTA with the same number) but they're not related.

how may car races have you seen where there are two opposing lanes of traffic?

In Cruis'n USA, sometimes you have to avoid oncoming traffic.

Re:GT != GTA

[i7dude]

"In simulators like GT3, realism's important, after all..."

well, if you would have bothered to look at the parent post i relplied to you'd noitce that he said GT3 hence Grand Turismo 3...nice try tho.

dude.

Ouch. Nothing prevents perpetual copyright.

[yerricde]

The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to: ... (xviii.) Copyrights, patents of inventions and designs, and trade marks

Unlike the U.S. Constitution, this doesn't even specify a weak "limited times" guarantee. Therefore, Australia's Parliament has the right to pass a perpetual copyright on a given work.

Also it is a reasonably common enough occurance for the Commonwealth to convince all the states to pass a law, in effect making a commonwealth law that they are not supposed to make.

The US does this too, saying in effect "Pass these laws, or we take away your highway construction money." It puts a new spin on the term "highway robbery."

Re:Ouch. Nothing prevents perpetual copyright.

[sholden]

The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to: ... (xviii.) Copyrights, patents of inventions and designs, and trade marks

Unlike the U.S. Constitution, this doesn't even specify a weak "limited times" guarantee. Therefore, Australia's Parliament has the right to pass a perpetual copyright on a given work.

The Australian Parliament does whatever the hell they feel like.

In the lead up to the last election the Government tried to pass a law that would allow the defense forces to force a boat out of Australian waters at the discretion of the captiain of the defense vessel giving him/her no responsibility if the boat then sank or whatever. This was part of the government's 'get tough on refugees' campaign (which got them elected). Due to their incompetence the bill was so vague that it basically gave the defence the right to force an Australian vessel containing Australian citizens out of Australian waters. It was the most rushed through bill in Australian history, but the opposition at least had their eyes open and refused to pass it in the senate.

Complete insanity.

Re:Ouch. Nothing prevents perpetual copyright.

[mpe]

In the lead up to the last election the Government tried to pass a law that would allow the defense forces to force a boat out of Australian waters at the discretion of the captiain of the defense vessel giving him/her no responsibility if the boat then sank or whatever. This was part of the government's 'get tough on refugees' campaign (which got them elected). Due to their incompetence the bill was so vague that it basically gave the defence the right to force an Australian vessel containing Australian citizens out of Australian waters. It was the most rushed through bill in Australian history, but the opposition at least had their eyes open and refused to pass it in the senate.

Maybe maybe if had passed Australia would have ended up with a one ship navy, consisting of the ship best at sinking other Australian warships :)?

too bad it was only populated by convicts

[a4w5vffg]

For the record, Australian was a British colony populated by convicts and many others, and was not founded in an way by 'convicts'. And America, while perhaps founded by Puritans, isn't close to being populated 100% by Puritans.
g'day mite.

Hell no ...

[OzPeter]

I wouldn't exactly call the Christian Right puritans .. LOLBut if you remember your history, America was also an English prison colony. It was only after the war of independence that the English had to find somewhere else to ship their convicts to. So I salute your brave ancestors, as without them, I would be speaking with some strange North American accent! (Which you do, as you have confused the Australian "a" sound with the North American "i" sound - Its G'day mate")

At least somewhere gets it right

[_Shad0w_]

Sometimes it seems Australia is the only place that actually has a good stance on the various region protection systems and copyrights. Shame they go and screw it all up with their censorship laws.

Re:At least somewhere gets it right

[Shodan52]

As far as I'm aware the only censorship restrictions here in Australia is material which contains sexual violence. Not sexual, not violence - just a combination of the two. Why does everybody think we have draconian censorship ?

really?

[ghack]

no. what about the new aussie censorship bill? dont be foolish - all governments will take away rights. learn your subject matter before you post...I mean, china is certainly an industrialized country...

Electronic Frontiers Australia

Australia is no worse than the US- but that doesnt make it better.

Re:really?

[Wild Wizard]

oh ffs

post a link that is censored and i will see if i can see it (I'm in Australia)

bet you i can

Re:This is +5 Insightful?

[ghack]

this is anything but a flame...and evidence that the moderation system on slashdot isnt working.

but what does this mean compared to this...

[taco1991]

Anyone remember this article only a couple of weeks ago? More and more, courts from around the world are disagreeing with one another in regards to copyright issues and technology. Are DVDs software or film?

This is only the beginning of a slew of court rulings and laws that will confict with each other and throw the already confused state of affairs into absolute chaos.

And why would someone like me want to study this in grad school? Because it's f**king cool - that's why =)

taco

Re:but what does this mean compared to this...

[Reality_X]

Apparently, the USA isn't the world (despite the World Series being called ... that.)

The reason why courts in different countries make different (opposing) decisions is because each country has it's own laws. The court reaches a decision in accordance with those laws.

The day US law infiltrates other countries (more than it has already done so) is the day I move to ... another planet. One where the US government isn't welcome. MWaheheahaeheahaeh... erm.

Re:but what does this mean compared to this...

[Howie]

Apparently, the USA isn't the world (despite the World Series being called ... that.)

While I agree with the sentiment, the World Series is named after a newspaper called the New York World who were the original sponsor.

Re:but what does this mean compared to this...

[Howie]

What an idiot. Mod that sucker down if you please. I can't believe I linked to the proof I was wrong :)

Re:but what does this mean compared to this...

[Reality_X]

I stand corrected and enlightened.

I'm glad the Aussies...

[evilpaul13]

may not be screwed out of all the PS2 games that they were on PSX. As an avid PSX RPG fan, I'd have been damn pissed if Final Fantasy Tactics was released late, slightly censored, and with new ugly text boxes.

That got butchered in Europe too, only the japanese and american versions didn't. I wonder why?

Re:its a fact...

[afedaken]

According to the Department of Justice, there are only 1,381,892 prisoners in the Federal Prison system.

A Far cry from 5%.

I'll grant that the U.S. is turning into a police state at a rather disconcerting pace, but we're not yet a prison state, and we've certainly not reached 5% of incarceration.

That having been said, according to sentencingproject.org we do incarcerate more people than any other nation.

If you wanna look at interesting US Prison statistics, consider the disenfranchisement of African Americans and Hispanic Americans quoted in this Scientific American article.

As an Asian-American, the fact that the justice system is so racially skewed is truly frightening.

spell check!

[ikitat]

Hey, you spelled "commission" "commisssion".

Re:spell check!

[ross.w]

Didn't you know Gollum worked for Slashdot?

its too true :(

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately that is too true.
I'm an Aussie, and am no longer pround of being an Australian. Because of 9 straight years of a very conservative govenment (like bush), there is no money left in universities.

Hell, who am I to complain? its alot better than america! up until the late 80's, university was FREE!... no more.. and the government tried to make students pay full fees! (luckily that didn't work)

I can only hope in 3 years we get the greens forming government!

that would be the end of the current bullshit with the government trying to remove free speech.

I swear if another conservative government gets in next election, i'm leaving this fucked up country.

Re:its too true :(

[iamplasma]

As an Australian uni student, I can agree funding would be nice, but nothing seems to be going too horribly. My uni (UTS) is even expanding this year. Don't get me wrong, I think Johnny Howard is an idiot.

Let me take a wild guess and ask if you voted for your local "Left Action" student association party? (aka, hippies who like to protest about EVERYTHING).

Seriously though, our government may have little clue when it comes to reality (the internet censorship being case in point), but they aren't that bad. In fact, there are even plans to FINALLY introduce that R18+ rating for computer games even.

Re:its a fact...

[Anonymous Coward]

A high degree of muslim men have homosexual tendencies.

In the west, we no longer see homosexuality as a stigma, it is simply accepted.

However, in the middle east, its far different.

That explains the poor treatment of women by muslim men; they are gay, repressed, and as a result they act out their brutal fantasies towards women.

I was talking to a group of young, thoughtful muslim men, and despite being raised in the US, they still had ideas that are indicative of poorly conditioned minds. For example, they believe women are raped in the US because of "short skirts". Interestingly, this probably is more a mirror of their conflicted inner self which is telling them to "protect" women and at the same time, they have a great deal of anger towards the same women because it conflicts with their repressed homosexual urges.

I realize you think this is nonsense, but it is a fact that the muslim prisoners in cuba attempt to punish the US guards by masturbating, and flinging the ejaculate at American guards.

Again, its an interesting thought process that goes on. There is a real sexual tension of being locked up with another man, but at the same time, the same self-loathing makes them believe their ejaculate is the foulest substance in their body. They feel their ejacualate is the worst thing that comes from their body. But notice, this is the same thing they use to conceive a child with a woman. Therefore, they view women and their own sexuality in the lowest terms.

You think I'm full of crap, but I'm dead on with this analysis. Muslim men are very confused, and the 21st century genuinely scares them because it hits at the weakest part of their beliefs.

Secretly, every muslim man cheered the September 11th attack, because it validates that primal feeling that modern life, as practiced in the USA, brings out the confused feelings about their sexuality, women, and their relationship with other people. Its hard to deal with if you've been sheltered your entire life.

Re:Distribution Costs

[asv108]

The cost of distributing products to the shelf in Japan is very expensive compared to the states. Think of NYC, trying to get anything in to NYC is a nightmare. Japan is very similar.

Re:cars mod chips and consoles mod chips

[nolife]

Stange is it not? There are many examples that seem completely unjustified when the words computer/digital/online are swapped with car/house/offline.

I am assuming that you not just trolling but to expand on your car chips from a technical view, there are legal issues involved when you modify an ignition or emmission system..

There are two classes of modifications to vehicle engine and management controls. "Off road" and "On road".

Using your mod chips for car example..
Ones that modify the emmisions system that are not certified by the federal guidelines would have to be classified for "Off-road" use only. Same with H-pipes (a blank pipe that replaces the catalytic convertors), and many intake and ignition systems. Your car may still pass the local smog tests but if its the new parts are emmissions related and not certified you can not use it for "On-road" use.

With a car you have that choice, regardless of % that are ACTUALLY only used off road, you are still allowed to purchase them. I can't say the same for computer/digital/online though.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[luckymat]

The ACCC is an independant body that has nothing to do with the Howard Government

Re:Only good use for region coding...

[iamplasma]

It is GTA3 the shooter, though you did say GT3 (no A), so you're right. What the hell is DOA3 though? Isn't that a fighting game?

I wouldn't consider Australia better than the US

[Trepidity]

...in this regard. Sure, they're on the "right side" in this one particular case. But Grand Theft Auto 3 is illegal in Australia, while it's the best-selling PS2 game in the U.S., where it's perfectly legal.

DVD delay argument doesn't make sense

[Nice2Cats]

Region coding does make sense with DVDs. You see, there's often a long delay before US movies are released in other countries.

That would make sense if only new DVDs come out with regional encoding, but my copy of "Alien" here - which was released quite a while back - is limited to Code 2. Everything gets coded, ancient or still on the big screen. This makes the "delay" argument look kinda silly.

I mean, people are bitching about how their rights are being taken away and everything, but let's face it: How many of them are actually using imports?

In Europe (somewhat more than 360 million people, I should point out), a lot of people. This is because there is a greater selection of DVDs in the U.S. than in Europe. Also, some DVDs are in German translation only ("Flash Gordon", the new version with Queen's music, is one of them). And third and most important, DVDs from different countries are censored in different ways. Europeans (especially Germans) take out the violence (the German version of "Fight Club" is somewhat of a joke), while the U.S. has this problem with nudity and sex ("Color of Night" is one that comes to mind).

If you want to see the film the way the director intended, sooner or later you're going to have to import you stuff.

Re:I HAVEN'T NOTICED THAT RECENTLY!

[Wild Wizard]

well duh

have you ever seen a map of South Australia
oh and for the uninformed thats the state where the Woomera Detetion centre is located

Woomera is a small town in the largest military area covering a large part of the state. Its been used for nuclear tests, test firing rockets both military and civilian and is a big no go area for ANYONE.

Which side of the road?

[Arker]

They drive on the left, along with basically all former British colonies outside of North America.

It's an interesting little historical digression as to why different countries drive on the sides of the road they do. It actually all goes back to Napoleonic Europe. Before Napoleon, everyone used the left side of the road. It just sort of naturally happened that way, most people are right handed after all, and if that passer-by jumps at you as he goes by, you want your strong hand (which might well be holding a sword, after all) between you. Or if you were in a chariot, or on a horse, the weapon typically would be in the right hand, the reins in the left - which leads to the same thing. So for centuries everyone in europe used the left side of the road.

Then came Napoleon. And the Napoleonic wars. Horrid bloody confused battles, gunsmoke obscuring view, troops arriving late and needing to tell friend from foe quickly when they marched into view along a roadway. Plus Napoleon was a bit of an iconoclast anyway. So he came up with a way that his armies could quickly tell friend from foe, even under the most confused conditions. He decreed that the French would now use the right side of the road, not the left. Anyone marching on the left side of the road was the enemy. He conquered nation after nation, and when they were conquered, they switched sides and used the right side of the road.

The British were never conquered. They still use the left to this day. So do their former colonies (with the exceptions mentioned.)

Sweden also he did not conquer. However, back in the 1960s, the Swedes did finally change over to be compatible with the nations around them. They had some rather confused motorists for a bit, as you might imagine, but eventually everyone got used to it. Most other European nations that Napoleon didn't conquer (such as Switzerland, for instance) nevertheless made that adjustment long before, for the sake of commerce with their neighbors.

Ahh but now the strange exception in North America. We actually went through a period of relative chaos on this issue - most early Americans were from England after all, but then again, we fought the British and those French had helped us... so there was some disagreement and regional variation, although the right side was probably more popular, particularly early on. Henry Ford actually was the one that put an end to it. He had a bit of a fetish about efficiency - you may know that he only put out his cars in one colour, for instance, to simplify the painting stage of production, not to mention his supply logistics. So it was natural he would want to decide to put the steering wheel on one side or the other, not both (an option his competitors catered to.) He settled on the left, it is said, because his left arm was weak from a childhood illness and he found it difficult to shift gears with it. So he put the steering wheel on the left, shifted with his right, and his cars became so successful that the entire continent was soon driving on the left side of the road.

Best of both worlds

[Sven182]

I like it. I have a region free DVD player, so:

• I can choose between DVDs from different regions based upon technical merit. For example, the R1 Chasing Amy is far superior to the R4 version. And the R4 version of Trainspotting is censored, while the R2 version is not.
• DVDs are cheaper. DVDs in Australia are far far cheaper than anywhere else. I am constantly surprised that American super-discount-sale prices still exceed our own recommended prices.

So what is there not to like?

S

GTA3

[Kargan]

Just don't try to play Grand Theft Auto 3 on that PlayStation! That's illegal!

No problems with the mod chips, though...

That sure makes a lot of sense.

Re:its a fact...

[Howie]

No, it's 1 in 20 will spend some time in prison during their life at current rates of imprisonment.

But Region 1 DVDs are the most expensive!

[DJ Wipeout]

I'm not going to claim it scales exactly, but as the region number gets higher, the prices generally get cheaper. Sure, region 1 gets it first almost every time, but at up to four times the retail price.

Re:But Region 1 DVDs are the most expensive!

[ryants]

Sure, region 1 gets it first almost every time, but at up to four times the retail price.

Really? Here in Vancouver most DVDs are between Cdn$18 - Cdn$25 ... or about US$12 - US$17. You're telling me that other regions pay as little as US$3?

Re:Only good use for region coding...

[Howie]

how may car races have you seen where there are two opposing lanes of traffic???

You need to try Burnout then - LOTS of oncoming traffic, cross-traffic, semi trucks and so on. The only way to win is to take risks in oncoming traffic and in the gaps between lanes.

It has the same sort of feel as the car chases in movies like Ronin, or the final city part of the newer Gone In 60 Seconds.

Not in Oz

[DABANSHEE]

No retailer wirth his salt will sell a regionlocked DVD players. Consequently they are all designed to be piss easily unlocked (like have a miniscre switch on the PCB & a tiny access hole at the back that lines up with it). They only charge $100 for unlocking a DVD player when they think they are dealing with a complete moron who'll let him get away with charging him $100 extra.

Gez, right now they are selling DVD/MP3 players at the computer markets for about$170, unlocked (multi-region, not region-free, which makes them compatible with the latest Sony Studios DVDs too - the latest Sony DVDs won't work on DVD players set to regin 0, which is the regionfree setting, so you have to have a DVD player with a multi-region setting, where it automatically changes the region to match the DVD)