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Email And Cell Phone In One From RIM
ericmc42 writes: "Research in Motion anounced a new Blackberry this morning, and it has a GSM cell phone in it! It looks great! Email, PIM, Phone all in one. The best part about it is that the email still uses the same packet switched network that all other Blackberrys use. This means the email connection is 'always on' and the battery life should be good. Also interesting is that it runs Java 2 as its operating system."
My nokia 7110 does all these things. And I think its considered out of day at this stage.
Cruise TT
No no, you want a POGO
Sorry I'm a bit offtopic on this one... Java 2 isn't a Operating System. Java 2 is a programming language. Therefore for your comment to be correct, it should read "uses a java 2 Operating system."
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Maybe I am wrong, but dosn't the Treo provide all of these features, and the benifit of a widly adopted OS with programs and a computer sync feature? It seems to me to miss alot of the features of the Treo, and not provide a whole lot in return. Save money, maybe, but you still have to cary your palm around.
Yawn.
Having just ditched my trial Nokia communicator (OK PDA but a crap phone) I'm interested in knowing how the blackberry compares to the Treo .
Anyone tried them?
Are either any use.
alnapp
Get the EULA T-shirt
Actually the photos moved to here.
"i can never say no to anyone but you"
Hmmm...Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it looks that great. I think it looks like crap. As far as PDA/phone combos go, I think that this model from Samsung looks great. Plus, it's got the useable size and shape necessary for both PDA and phone use, unlike the new blackberry.
You'd be better off long-term with a PDA and a GSM card of some kind, or one of the newer phones marketed with built-in PDA functionality.
The way development is moving, the VERY near future should see ALL PDA's (Palm, Pocket PC) GSM equippable - why bother then with an expsensive and proprietary coporate solution ?
Can you write an email, and call someone at the same time? That way you'll see blonds driving down the road, talking on their phone, writing an email, and brushing their hair at the same time.
It is advisible to stay off the road until all of them wreck and the device is outlawed.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
Blackberrys would be useful IF they didn't require an Exchange (or Notes) back-end!
Why they can't just allow them to connect using op3 or imap I don't know?
Why someone would develop a product with GSM/GPRS that doesn't have a tri-band (900/1800/1900Mhz) radio chipset is beyond me. For sure, it costs a little more but mean less hardware localization. And when carriers actually get their shit, together...it gives you potenitally global roaming.
I'm sorry, but the Treo just seems to make the Blackberry range look pretty lame.
Just my $0.2.
Anyone know the ballpark price for these? I am not going to call an AT&T rep to ask. Is it $200? (probably not) $700? It isn't the most elegant looking device, but for the right price, I would get one.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Actually the new puppy uses GPRS for packet data, not Mobitex like the 957 and other older models.
This actually troubles me somewhat. Read around on the 'Net about what mobile devices worked on 9/11 in NYC, and you'll generally find that Blackberries on Mobitex worked fine while other networks were jammed. Don't know if GPRS (which is really new) would provide the same reliability... anyone know?
"The cup... the drop... it's a YES!"
An ear bud? Excuse me? Is that an advance in design?
Other than that, it looks like the previous model.
There's nothing to see here. Move along, folks...
Somebody tell me I've missed something obvious!
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
The big difference between this device and most of the others being mentioned in a lot of the replies is that it is G3 network compliant. As far as the J2ME as an OS, I think that was a bad decision. Integrating the Palm OS gives you support for a lot of existing software AND the J2ME environment. J2ME is a virtual machine; it isn't intended to be a full-blown OS platform.
My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so
The Treo matches this RIM feature for feature and surpasses it in a few important areas: Unlike this new Blackberry, the design is such that it is actually useful as a phone--it looks like a phone, talks like a phone, etc. Always-on email is coming with GPRS later this year, and the available Qwerty thumboard is also just as good.
The Treo is smaller (RIM: 4.6 x 3.1 x 0.7 inches, Treo: 4.3" x 2.7" x 0.7"), it has a touchscreen, runs PalmOS, has 16 megs of ram (RIM: 8 + 1 sdram). There may be more. I can't tell, but it looks as though you may need to use the headset to use the voice capabilities. Treo offers you all three: handset, headset, speakerphone.
It looks as though the RIM uses GRPS [blackberry.net] instad of the Mobitex network. This should mean faster download times than the treo. However, as soon as Handspring gets the firmware update out, it will also be using the same network.
Cell phones are great for reading email on the go, and SMS is nice for incoming short messages, but it sometimes seems that morse code is more efficient than using your 12-digit keypad to send email. If I want to say "Hello Bob" I have to type
44#335555556660#22#66622
That's not very efficient - that's almost 250% the amount of keystrokes. Not to mention the fact that it's not always easy to remember where keys are on the phone. I'll keep my Palm VII for email on the go, thank you very much.
-Evan
I just got myself an Ericsson T68, but without getting the GPRS service - I'm just not out of reach of a real internet connection often enough for it to be viable. Keep in mind that you always can use the normal internet my phone company offers: you can get the odd email on the phone even with 9.6kbps!
Just my 0.02kB...
Hurricane Application Group, Dept of Meteorology Control, Ministry of Proactive Defense
I'm glad I don't have a cellphone in my RIM.
From their press release it says that the new unit is based on an Intel 386 processor. Now from that point of view how long until someone gets linux/bsd/your favorite opensource OS running directly on it.
I know that myself I would love a wireless handheld with a keyboard that is running linux.
Telcos have alot of dark fibre in the States. Most people assume that's optical fibre...but it's actually moral fibre.
Is it just me or does it look like some new MP3 player design. I don't know about the rest of the world, but I don't want to clip my phone/PDA on my belt and walk around like some G-man.
Come on, folks, everytime some article is posted about Java, there are always folks out there who say:
"Java Sucks, d00d! It's SO SLOW! My mother runs faster than Java! Sun should make it Open Source! Er, free! Er, under full community control! 1337 w4nk3r5 like myself use C! Or better yet, Assembly!"
Oh, wait, it's being used on a cool device. Guess it doesn't suck so bad now, huh?
-- Never post before coffee --
I wonder why Palm hasn't jumped in on this race. I am surprised that it has taken so long for these type of devices to come out. Also, it seems so early in the game that it would almost be to risky to jump into one of either the Treo or this Blackberry.
Advice: Althought they are behind in coming up with a cobo unit, wait for Palm. Once they come out with one, they'll make it right with all the little cool features that make it worthwhile.
But it still looks like the killer device will be one that is based on existing networks but is fully programmable, with a half-decent keyboard and screen.
What I'm _really_ dying to make is a mobile controller for my home P2P box. I think of a search while I'm on the train... I send off a message to my P2P box, which does a search and returns the results. I choose one or two and tell it to start downloading.
I believe I can do this today with SMS and two phones, one of which is linked to my P2P box. But it would be so much nicer with a mobile Gnutella app!
I think technology only becomes really popular when it can be used to do illicit things.
My blog
OK, I actually had a RIM 850 for a while (still have it actually, but it's not activated now) and there are a few BIG problems with them: 1) Signal "penetration" - Don't go 6 steps inside a building and expect to carry on a conversation (not that my Sprint POS phone is any better) 2) Frequent crashes - The thing crashed soooo much, you would think it was a M$ product (worked better after I took the slow-a$$ browser off) 3) Range - If you live more than 12 miles from a tower, forget about it, and I'm in a pretty big metro area. My $.02: A great toy, but don't make it your only cell phone, especially if you travel.
-------------------------------------------
Saving baby carrots around the globe.
A packet switched network (GPRS) is available in most if not all (European) countries already and with a POP3 capable cell phone (just about any decent phone) this functionality is here, today.
Most modern phones feature T9 input technology, allowing you to type MUCH faster than in the old days. It compares what you write with a built-in dictionary in real time and guesses the right word as you type (and about nine times out of ten, it immediately works -- otherwise you can select from other matching words). Go to the site and try it out, they have a live demo.
(J2ME) as its core operating system.
The Java OS thing sounded bizarre to me, so I went to sun.com and found out that the whole J2ME thing works under Linux or VxWorks : the real OS.
Do someone has more info on this ?
The article is thin on details as to which systems this is compatable with; I know that in my area, the only service availible is thrhough PCS - and yes, I'm looking forward to the day when it isn't so..
Click here for a RIM job. (What's a rimjob?)
--
The goat is back
this is going to put a big crunch into the always on crowd.
What are the current vibes on this?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
How does this compare to the Motorola V101? Has anyone used this phone yet? Supposedly a GSM phone, can do email, sms and all that... and it's only $99.00 CDN with subscription
As an aside, it's funny how a replacement battery is 99 bucks too, in light of the battery discusion posted earlier.
--
Some weasel took the cork out of my lunch.
RIM is hiring also. Get your Rimjob today!
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
Putting a software CPU (Java virtual machine) on a PDA is idiotic. It is contrary to the development principle of these type of devices, to conserve resrouces. Java VM wastes CPU, Memory (of both types) resulting in an abuntant waste of battery, having less programs and data. Anybody who owns a modern PDA knows how limiting these can be.
A friend of mine works at RIM, and I saw one of these things while it was still in developement. And I have to admit it's one great device. His did not have the Internet enabled, so I couldn't test that, but he said it's identical to the older Blackberry.
If you liked the Blackberries, then you'll love this thing. It's pretty much identical, only it has a headset jack where you plug in the handsfree mike and earphone.
Has very good reception (at least in the Toronto and Hamilton area). Also, it has good battery life, although it's far shorter than the email-only Blackberry.
All in all, a great cellphone, email, internet, PDA. Much better IMNHO than anything out there (Treo, Kyocera, even Nokia)
very cool shriekback reference. "everything that rises must converge".... must...find...album....
Sheer perfection. This device does exactly what it intends. It bridges the scheduler/phone/wireless email world perfectly. Nothing one the market is simpler or more functional.
Kudos to RIM - Im plopping down my $$$ the moment its available.
Over here in Waterloo we've known about this Blackberry for quite a while (among us UW programmers and all). What we also know about is that RIM really needs this Blackberry to succeed or it's gonna dive.
They've spent a lot of money buying out other buildings in the area and building a brand new building of their own. Again, like dot coms they've been getting a ton of money and not been producing as much (that's the buzz round abouts).
I hope for RIMs sake that the new Blackberry's sell really well, I think that price is the only obstacle but it will sell well among their corporate customers.
internet like monkeys'
I like the idea of PDA/Cell phone combos, but only if they reduce the amount of crap one has to schlep around in the long run.
From what I could gather, to use the phone, you MUST plug a headset into the thing. While some people may find it "cool" to have an ugly black cord running from their ear to their pocket all the time, I sure don't. Either that, or you've got to pull the headset out of your pocket, unravel the cord, and stick it in your ear before the party on the other end hangs up.
This reminds me a lot of the Motorola V200 which also suffered from the same shortcoming... but at least it has a speakerphone.
Almost perfect... but not quite.
What, are you kidding me? Game Boy Advance goes for 14 hours on it's AA batteries. This is due to advances in efficiency, not batteries. Isn't that what we should be more concerned about?
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
Wrong thread, sorry.
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
My main problem with the Blackberry is security. The PKI is badly formed, and in fact two RIM engineers could not explain the method used to exchange keys. In examining the protocols, it looks like some of it is in plain text!!
Out of the 5 security criteria a client of mine looked for, Blackberry only passed 1 so it was discarded as a choice.
Depends how paranoid you are, though, and this only applies to the email side. (For Info - the winner came out to be iPaq with SecuRemote)
I am considering buying a Treo, but want to hear from early-adopters first. Why don't you post a little more detail about your experience?
Here are some specific questions:
What is your GSM carrier and plan, and how are you liking it? I will be using VoiceStream in the Kansas City area, so would be especially interested if that is your carrier. Can you get VoiceStream iStream service on the Treo?
How annoying is the short battery life? I am not a road warrior, so I can charge my phone nightly. Is that good enough?
How bad is the rumored problem with "face oil" on the screen from talking on the phone?
How are you carrying the thing? I am thinking I'll need a belt case, since it isn't going to fit into a hip pocket like my little cell phone.
Have people gotten tired of you answering the phone by flipping up the cover and saying, "Kirk here?"
"Rub her feet." -- L.L.
I use a RIM 850 pager that I got for business purposes. The writer states that this phone uses the same "packet switched network" as the rest of the blackberry's use. I sure hope not.
My pager is so bad that it sometimes takes 2 hours for a page to get through - and that's with a full signal! It's so rare that I get a full signal though, it's unbelievable that I get messages at all.
On top of this, the author mentions "good battery life". My pager literally only lasts 36 hours with a fully charged 1800 mAh NiMH battery. If this is your description of good, well, I don't know what to say.
To keep things fair, I have used a RIM 950 pager on an evaluation basis, and it did perform somewhat better as far as connectivity, and it had a built in rechargable lithium ion battery. Still - try it before you buy it!
"Motorola V101 - Tri-Band, Single Mode Digital GSM wireless device Voice and Two-Way SMS capable"
*yoinked from advertisement*
Take total communications control with this all-in-one phone and messaging device - available exclusively in Canada only at Rogers AT&T Wireless. With a handsfree headset or snap-on handset, the Motorola V101 Personal Communicator phone allows you to be as vocal and as mobile as you like. External buttons enable you to answer, end or make calls without even opening the device! The full QWERTY keyboard lets you send text and e-mail messages effortlessly to any Two-Way SMS capable Rogers AT&T phone or from your phone to any e-mail address. The V101 weighs 167 grams (5.89 ounces) and measures 9.4 cm wide x 7.11 cm tall x 2.8 cm thick (3.7 x 2.8 x 1.1 inches). Comes packaged with a Slim LiOn 600 mAh Battery, Rapid Travel Charger, Holster, Headset, Belt Clip / Handset Accessory and a 1-year Manufacturer's warranty. Available in Klub Blue or Shadow Bronze.
Features:
The best thing about these puppies is the display. It is a really nice display that is almost as good as paper. It is very sharp and has a most generous viewing angle for LCD - it is visible in almost all lighting conditions (except complete darkness of course!!)
-- Mike
Something that pretty much annoys me in mini-keyboards such as mobiles, handhelds and the like, is the keyboard layout. Just as a standard keyboard has been stupidly copied from the old typewriter layouts, the designers copy that same layout over and over again.
:).
For the PC, there's the alternative Dvorak keyboard, which is that much more efficient. A downside is of course it's language-dependency, but there are a lot of different keyboard types out there now as well (not just qwerty/azerty/qwertzu, but loads of regional variations as well - just look at your keymap files
I wish some manufacturer would go to the trouble to actually do the same to handlheld keyboards - get a functional layout on those things, instead of the legacy thing. If it means I'll be able to type notably faster, I'm more than willing to learn a new layout.
What a depressingly stupid machine.
So is this a deal? Too many combo devices and I just don't follow the things... Yeah PCS & Amazon lame...whatever.
~~ What's stopping you?
Its interesting that they seem to have skipped the traditional earpiece/mouthpiece and went straight for hands-free (earbud/microphone). I think this is a good move since it removes size as a restriction.
dood...doesn't matter, RIM is also canadian.
What about Danger's Hiptop? Where is it in this fray? it's smaller, lighter, and cheaper than both the Treo and this new B'berry. http://www.danger.com/
I run a Blackberry enterprise server for Exchange with 20+ units. The units are exceptional for doing wireless e-mail and are an excellent substitute for a palm. (if you can afford $40US/month for the flat rate e-mail service)
:) The 8xx series units were made to use a different network with a different frequency that admittedly will suck more juice from the battery. They supposedly support better in building coverage.
Carrier:
The carrier for the 950 and 957 based units is the Conectiv/Bellsouth wireless datanetwork
http://www.bellsouthwd.com/covapp/start.html
The carrier for the 850/857 is something else.
The 850/950 use AA batteries. The 857/957 use an internal battery that (on the 957) can last for a couple of weeks without charging.
Encryption:
The encryption is triple DES and is created when you cradle the unit. When you un-cradle the unit the server begins encrypting all messages with that key which is only stored on the handheld and server so it seems pretty secure from random snooping in transit. PIN to PIN messages (directly between handhelds) are encrypted with something along the level of ROT-13 and RIM basically tells you not to use it for secure communication.
Misc:
These units are the only solution* that ties into mapi servers/mailboxes. They support pop3, but my company does not, so the blackberry was a natural solution. Anything sent from the BB goes into your sent items in your Outlook mailbox wirelessly. Anything arriving in your Exchange/Outlook inbox is sent to your BB and arrives 10-20 seconds later (on average).
The connection works between your blackberry server (which is separate from your exchange server, or can be) and srp.blackberry.net on port 3xxx outbound originating, so it is fairly secure from a firewall perspective as well.
*There are others of course.. vast communications has an expensive solution that is device and carrier independent. (works on palms, my2way, etc)
I'm not sure what was meant by the remark:
This means the email connection is 'always on' and the battery life should be good.
Now, I love my Blackberry (although, please consider whether you ever want to be this wired), but my reaction is very much to the contrary.
My experience with my blackberry is that I need to replace the AA almost every other week, even with the "battery saving" option that turns it off at night. I cannot imagine how I could use it in connection with a telephone and expect things to be any better.
Whoever thinks it looks great should be shot. PDA's should not have Keyboards, however 80's retro the user is.
There's a a prelim review here. It's only for the ICQ portion currently, the full review should be out this week, I think.
I think Danger's new product, the hiptop, is much cooler.
She sat at the window watching the evening invade the avenue.
Yet another hard to use interface that ensures the product's death. What, do you have to press the orange key and those little numbers (BTW not arranged like a regular phone) just to dial a damn number? How about then you have both hand on the wheel? And is the headset a noisy, loose fitting piece of crap? Does it cost RIM $0.05 and is quality made-in-China? Oh yeah. I still think the best phone-PDA combo is the Kyocera SmartPhone. You can dial with one hand (like any other cell phone), use a headset or NOT, and have a 8MB Palm.
I thought Java 2 was a platform not an OS. Can someone enlighten me!
The Danger Hip-top seems a much better melding of PDA and phone. The new blackberry just has voice tacked on, and doesn't have the ergonomics of a phone.
Other advantages of the Hiptop are compatability with instant messaging clients (AIM and Yahoo Messenger, possibly others) and beatnick software for music on-the-fly.
All this in a smaller package with a smaller monthly fee. The thing looks pretty sweet to me. Now if they'd just get done beta-testing and start shipping, I'd be very happy.
Oh yes, and it's a lot cheaper too. ($199) Just another cool product from Apple expats.
Kevin Fox
Since I work for a major carrier and we are selling these new BlackBerry's, I had to get certifed by BlackBerry to support it. As a result I had the chance to play with it for a week and I must say is is really nice....
First off,
Battery Life - last a bit longer than any good cell phone when you use it like a phone. If you don't make too many calls, they'll last 1-2 weeks. The battery is internal and rechargable through the cradle.
The Network - I used the phone all over the place from my building, inside the datacenter, my home, the mall, various stores, etc and never had a problem with service. As long as you can get a GSM signal you can make a call, and the calls are clear even with only 1 bar of signal. GPRS is very nice and way faster than the mobitex for data.
Backend - Yes, this BlackBerry IS designed for Notes and/or Exchange, but its target market is businesses with mobile employees. It lets you make and modify appointments through the handheld linked wirelessly with the Exchange server. Instant syncronization from anywhere.
Its Fast! - all the menus and applications it has are very fast to navigate through. The wheel on the right side is VERY handy.
$$$ - The Unit itself will likely be around $500 on the open market. Service is $40/mo for unlimited data, no KB charges. Phone service cost is based on the phone plan you choose.
OS - I am not sure what the real underlying OS is supposed to be, I do know that ALL Applications running on it are native Java.
Phone and Email at the same time? - yes and no.. During a conversation, you can compose, read, manage, etc your emails and calendar entries, but since GPRS uses unused bandwidth from GSM you can't actually send or receive anything. Once you hang up the call, GPRS starts working and the Blackberry updates its data, sends emails, etc. You can however send SMS messages while on the phone.
So in short, its GREAT! for businesses, less useful for individuals. But BlackBerry has a Internet version that works with normal email accounts, etc.
"In the United States, both AT&T Wireless and VoiceStream, a T-Mobile subsidiary, are now accepting orders for the BlackBerry 5810"
ATT would be selling a GSM product when their stateside service is TDMA?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
There's a technology in developement that could get rid of the short-life battery forever. Take a look at this link : Air-Zinc Fuel Cell
-I swear by my life-and my love of it-that I'll never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another to live for mine
Unless the speaker and microphone are on the back, it looks like this thing needs a headset. Can you imagine how frustrating it would be to get a call on this thing and not have your headset ready? You could perhaps try Morse code to get short messages through to your callers. Dit, dah, dah, ...
I wonder what this guy is smoking. It's ugly, just like the original Blackberry.
I do love mine, and wouldn't give it up for the world, however iPaq and Palm V are great looking, but certainly not the RIM. That and the UI is sub-par, compared to just about anything except for a Casio watch.
I've always wanted a good RIMjob that will help me keep my shit together.
Why aren't these people (Palm, Handspring. RIM) going with CDMA (by far the dominate standard in the U.S....where most such units are likely to be sold)?? What good is a device with GSM capabilities when your usage footprint is postage stamp small compared to that offered by CDMA and TDMA carriers.
Too bad they wasted a nice display with a WAP browser.
The Treo comes with Blazer browser. And the Kyocera 6035 and Samsung i300 work well with web clipping browser.
Wake me up when RIM has a real browser...
Someone should really create an s-mime/pgp/ec client for the blackberry. Mike Kirkup & co at UW did it, why not commercialize it? Any standard email sent to or from a blackberry has to be in cleartext otherwise, which sucks for anyone who needs to forward mail from the corporate server or just communicate with someone who doesn't have a blackberry.
I'm not going to even go into the slow-as-s*** speed of the RIM mail gateways. It can take up to an hour to have regular email delivered sometimes! WTF!?
The Treo is also GSM-only. And it is EITHER equipped for the U.S. GSM frequencies OR the rest-of-the-world GSM frequencies.
--Steve
You're a moron....using PGP on top of 3des. *sigh* Can we say complete and utter dilusional paranoia? God get a life.