Command and Conquer Generals

Kevin Tomaya writes: "GameSpot has posted a really in-depth story about a brand new Command and Conquer game that is in all 3D. It's called C&C Generals and has the US and China fighting against a terrorist organization. The article is like that Metal Gear Solid 2 story they did last year. It takes you through the whole genesis of the project and introduces the development team."

Comments

Inspiration

[darketernal]

Wonder if this could have been inspired from 9/11?

It's nice to see China recognized as a world power...or is it?

Re:Inspiration

[scientology]

China has always been recognized as a world power, just not politically. Remember, we recognize Taiwan as being the legitimate government of China, not the PRC.

Re:Inspiration

[Anonymous Coward]

The USA has recognized the PRC's legitimacy since Nixon. Where have you been?

Re:Inspiration

[darketernal]

I mean, not really as a world power, but more of a country that can kick ass rather than sit on theirs.

Re:Inspiration

[Anonymous Coward]

We also recognize Taiwan.

And I am not talking about Taiwan Province.

I wish the exiled Chinese Government on Taiwan would leash in and calm down their 'Mainland Autonomous Region' as it's really rambunctious.

Also, it'd be nice if they'd get off the Taiwanese people's land. There is a non-Chinese Taiwanese nationality, you know....

Re:Inspiration

[Hast]

Do you /really/ think that 9/11 could have /anything/ to do with the game design? I wonder if there could be a simple way to find out if it were, something as easy as clicking the link and finding references to 9/11 on basically every page.

And I think you misspelled "FIRST POST" in the header. ;-)

Re:Inspiration

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder also if the USA in this game will have a lunatic as the president. GWB is doing well pissing off the rest of the world.

Re:Inspiration

[darketernal]

Um, someone eventually has to make it, and whoever it is doesn't necessarily have to be some FP lamer or troll library bot.

Re:Inspiration

[Stonehand]

No, the United States does not recognize Taiwan as a separate nation. US policy on the matter has, in fact, been rather odd for quite some time.

a) The US considers Taiwan as part of China. Very, very few countries recognize Taiwan as a country, partly because China is quite willing to leverage its economic power to punish nations which would otherwise do so.
b) The US maintains diplomatic relations with Beijing not Taipei.
c) The US does NOT advocate Taiwanese independence.
d) Yet, the US also not only warns against the PRC using military force versus what the US says is part of the PRC, but under US law is obligated to provide the means to *defend* one piece of the PRC against the rest.

It's quite bizarre, but it's aimed at trying to push eventual reconcilliation and, presumably, unification under a democratic government. Thus, we diplomatically ignore the practical reality that neither side rules the other.

Re:Inspiration

[Anonymous Coward]

>>No, the United States does not recognize Taiwan >>as a separate nation.

1. If you read what I said, you'd see that I was saying the same thing you are.

I said that the US recognizes the PRC, not the ROC. It was the other way around until Nixon's trip to Beijing in '72. Since then it's been the "One China policy" where we recognize Beijing and fund Taipei.

2. The only reason that the US says that they will defend Taiwan is because Taiwan is willing to buy US arms. This works out well in the short term because Raytheon and Lockheed, etc. don't have to lay off all their employees now that cold war spending is gone. In the long term, this will come back to bite us in the ass just like it did when we sold weapons to:

a. Iraq
b. Iran
c. Afghanistan

See a pattern?

Oh yeah...and all the weapons we sold to Israel...those'll be a boat load of fun to deal with when the Arabs finally get their act together and take their land back as one.

Re:Inspiration

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you guys going off about taiwan. Jesus. Got topic?

Taiwan is not involved in the new C&C game. What is happening.

Linux port?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are they gonna port this to Linux? Time to start a petition for this.

Re:Linux port?

[tomstdenis]

Yeah, yeah, linux cool. Uh, beavis what are we doing on /.?

he, heheh, heheheh, hehehehe, yeah /. sucks!

Anyways, is it a general rule that Linux must be mentioned in EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE?

Tom

Re:Linux port?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hear, hear... maybe you can run it on WineX by 2005 if they don't port it :)

Re:Linux port?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dumbass, that's a comment, not an article. Stop sniffing glue. Fartknocker.

Re:Linux port?

[tomstdenis]

Yeah and I meant in every article posted someone posts a comment about Linux.

Tom

Re:Linux port?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you miss the 'nerds' part from 'news for nerds'?

Re:Linux port?

[tomstdenis]

Not all nerds use computers, let alone Linux.

The "linux" cult culture is just so very lame....

Re:Linux port?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not all jocks play sports, either, I guess....

Re:Linux port?

[tomstdenis]

Well since when did the definition of "nerd" mean someone who uses a computer?

Tom

Re:Linux port?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since you came along. Look it up in the dictionary, the definition for nerd is you.

Re:Linux port?

[NanoGator]

"Since you came along. Look it up in the dictionary, the definition for nerd is you."

Wow.. that was really clever. So what's it like being a graduate of the Bob Saget School of Comedy?

maybe..

[Anonymous Coward]

china could send in the civilians as meat shields while the US shoots the bad guys

I don't know...

[voice of unreason]

Looks good graphically, but I was kind of disappointed that they didn't seem to have any wacky, over-the-top units, like psychics and mind-controlled squid. It gave the Red Alert games a sense of fun that I think is missing in a lot of games.

By the way, be sure to check gamespot again monday afternoon, they'll have more on Generals, including a list of some of the units!

The trouble here...

[lohen]

Is in coming this close to the 'real world', and still imagining good guys and bad guys. They don't really exist, especially in times of war, as history will tell you as often as you please. Still, it's twenty years in the future, so we can dream, right?

Re:The trouble here...

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose if you beleive in that moral relativism crap. I really don't see how you could when you yourself make a judgement that their is no good or bad in a conflict. "Do unto others as you would do to yourself is a pretty good reference". Batu and the Golden Horde probably did not want to be sold as slaves to Venentian merchants but they did not seem to mind profiting from it..

Re:The trouble here...

[lohen]

Leaving the issue of moral relativism aside for now, it might perhaps be simply a matter of there being no 'good guys' or 'bad guys' on a national level. To fight a war effectively means to do a hell of a lot of bad things. Not everybody on the side that's doing them has to be involved in the actions - conscientious objectors in WW1 working as stretcher bearers provides a case in point. But pretty much every side has to take decisions which will have unethical consequences, along the lines of civilian casualties etc.

Many of the rules that are set for conflicts, as laid down in the Geneva convention, are routinely broken by just about everybody in just about every conflict nowadays. The only real restraining factors on militiary action on the part of a western government these days are cost (not as limiting as it used to be, at least in terms of money if not in the blood of your own soldiers) and profitability (in terms of votes for the governing body at least as much as national profit).

Where then does the answer lie? Perhaps in pursuing peace rather than war, perhaps in pursuing justice (which would have to embrace all parties) rather than revenge. Perhaps in accepting our common humanity and the sacred nature (even to an atheist such as myself) of any human life as more important than national boundaries and the conflicting interest of empowered individuals.

Perhaps in not dismissing the deaths of hundreds or thousands of civilians as 'collateral damage'. Perhaps in not unsustainably exploiting another country and culture to the point of engineering widespread suffering and resultant collapse. Perhaps in getting outside of our little local problems and local lives for just a short space of time and seeing how the rest of the world manages. Perhaps in not looking on our own misfortunes, including September 11th, as infinitely more tragic than those which occur outside of our borders and which destroy vastly more lives.

In Depth?

[nzhavok]

Well that certainly was a very in-depth article, at least it didn't leave me wondering if the powerpoint presentations had bullet points or not.

The prospect of a new and better C&C frightens me, I remember how addicted I was to C&C and RA. The addiction was only partially staved of by a little bit of StarCraft and Total Annihilation. I'd just come to terms with the fact I was probably going to lose 6 months of my life from Warcraft III they tell me there's another C&C coming along. Well I suppose the only hope for me is that it'll follow in the footsteps of Tiberian Sun.

Re:In Depth?

[mobets]

Hopefully they've improved the AI as much as they improved the graphics. I realy hated having the computers hit my power plants w/ the big laser when they hadn't even had a unit near my base. And then the fact that they don't seem to have to search for me, they just know where I am...

!5 Top level ececutives?

[Anonymous Coward]

Andy Kaufman is nowhere to be found, but instead, the Mighty Mouse theme is playing for the 15 top-level executives at EA, including CEO Larry Probst.

So I'm assuming there are like are 15^2 of lower executives. Man I didn't think EA was that big of a company.

Welcome to executive-land, please don't steal the office supplies when your stay is over.

Ok, seriously, I always get a kick out of a company that has marketing that glamorizes the executives. I mean come on.

Hope this is better

[Anonymous Coward]

Hope this doesn't suck big time like renegade

US and China?

[sydneyfong]

at first quick glance i read "US and china fighting against each other"...

wonder what hell the world will become when THAT happens ;-p

Re:US and China?

[Anonymous Coward]

just f*cking hope it doesn't!

Re:US and China?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hope you can speak Chinese...

Re:US and China?

[Anonymous Coward]

If China doesn't use nuclear weapons, everything should be fine. However, China doesn't exactly have a history of playing fair and having great concern for human rights. China has something like 250 million people in reserve. The only problem is there isn't enough technology to get them anywhere. Most of China's army still uses horses, last I heard.

Re:US and China?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah...their USD$5B (official budget, but expected to be at least three times that) all goes to horse feed.

Don't be ignorant.

Re:US and China?

[Shanep]

wonder what hell the world will become when THAT happens ;-p

Extra crispy?

Credit to game programmers

[QuantumG]

I used to think it was terrible the way games programmers never got any credit. You'd play a game and about the only indication there was that Activision didn't write it was one little spash screen at the start. Movies start with credits and nifty spash screens that make a big deal out of the actors, the director, even the people who write the music but games are generally considered to be a product of the distributor by most. Then an article like this comes along and you really can see why that is. Those head shots of the programmers should be reason enough to lock them in a basement and feed them caffine up and until the game is on the shelves and then get them another project, quick!

Re:Credit to game programmers

[Enry]

C&C has some of the best installers and opening scenes ever, with C&C Renegade being no exception. It's really good at getting you in the mood of the game.

GTA and GTA2 (GTA3 hasn't been ported to the PC yet..) also has good openings.

Re:Credit to game programmers

[erasmus_]

I like their installers as well, except what's the point? Everything animates and takes forever - I'd rather pick a directory, minimize it, and browse the web anyway while it installs. Although nice, it just seems silly - a normal InstallShield or new MSI-style installer would work just as well.

Re:Credit to game programmers

[InferiorFloater]

While I agree it's nice to see the development teams get some credit here, note that the only people mentioned in the article are the producers, and they seem to get the credit for 'doing' the game most of the time. Not one mention of the programmer who prototyped that wireframe engine in just a few days, or the artists responsible for the stellar terrain.

But, then again, it's hard to credit every member of a team, and it's a lot more sympathetic to associate a product with one or two quirky individuals rather than 20 or 30. Still, it's distressing to see the efforts of an entire team reduced to one person's efforts. Plight of the engineer, I suppose...

Re:Credit to game programmers

[Geoff Keighley]

As the author of the article I wanted to briefly comment on this post. I certainly try to give credit where credit is due -- In the case of the C&C Generals article, I ended up interviewing about 12 people on the team of 40. Not 100% of the team, but keep in mind that 40 is a pretty large team. On a smaller project like Black & White (team of about 12 key people) it's easier to speak with everyone.

Most of the key people were interviewed and shown in photos, even if they weren't the main focus of the story. (i.e. the terrain was created by Todd Williams, who is quoted in the story and his picture is shown). Keep in mind that I'm not always given access to everyone on a game development team. When I was in Tokyo for Metal Gear Solid 2, I was only allowed to speak with the most senior people on the team, all programmers/designers/artists who had worked with Mr. Kojima for over a decade. Companies aren't always willing to put every employee in front of the press.

However, I would like to say that I've failed with the article if you feel I've reduced the "efforts of an entire team...to one person's efforts." Yes, Skaggs and Bonin are quoted frequently, but that is to maintain some consistency throughout the piece. As a narrative endeavor I have to have some common themes running through the story, and after all, Skaggs and Bonin are the heads of the project. Yet I also tried very hard to at least recognize the efforts of the other key individuals on the team, such as Alhquist (game editor) and all the designers, key artists, etc.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

china/us working together

[perdida]

It's nice to see China and the US working together against terrorism in this game. It's a more realistic scenario than the ones that pit US and Chinese forces (including the wargames on this scenario conducted by the US armed forces).

Actually, China is claiming to be fighting the war against terror in its repression of the Uighur ethnic Turk Muslim people in its Xinjiang province, on the basis that a few dozen people from there may have trained in Afghan Al Qaeda terrorist camps.

Re:china/us working together

[Bongo]

Actually, China is claiming to be fighting the war against terror in its repression of the Uighur ethnic Turk Muslim people in its Xinjiang province, on the basis that a few dozen people from there may have trained in Afghan Al Qaeda terrorist camps.

Tibet, anyone? Maybe they should have a game where Chinese Su-27's get chased and harassed by flying lotus-postured monks.

Re:china/us working together

[Lars T.]

It's a more realistic scenario than the ones that pit US and Chinese forces (including the wargames on this scenario conducted by the US armed forces).

Is It?

The secret report, which was provided to Congress on Jan. 8, says the Pentagon needs to be prepared to use nuclear weapons against China, Russia, Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Libya and Syria. It says the weapons could be used in three types of situations: against targets able to withstand nonnuclear attack; in retaliation for attack with nuclear, biological or chemical weapons; or "in the event of surprising military developments.

re: china/us working together

[usurper_ii]

If the US was really serious about taking out terrorist, it sure wouldn't
be working with China (I know, it's just a game). We can all thank Bill
Clinton for taking money under the table in return for giving China
technology that gives them the capability of delivering a nuclear payload onto
American soil. Maybe we would be better off without California?

Re:china/us working together

[Anonymous Coward]

The Pentagon was ordered to develop contingency plans. What is so bad about that?

Re:china/us working together

[Anonymous Coward]

Escalating a non-nuclear conflict with the use of nuclear weapons isn't a Bad Thing(tm)? The only justifiable use of nuclear weapons is as a deterrent. If a nation uses a nuclear weapon against us, then we have a certain degree of justification to obliterate them from the face of the Earth. Any other use constitutes an atrocity and would (should) be seen as such by the international community.

Re:china/us working together

[Anonymous Coward]

You won't ever see this, I know. However, nuclear weapons are a deterrent because of how quickly they can be delivered, their effect on the drop-sites local enviornment, and their massive psychological impact.

The only reason that we dropped nuclear weapons on Japanese CITIES was because we realized that it would have a massive psychological impact upon the populace, which would hopefully end the war. Those cities had no other strategic value.

A modern nuclear attack would probably attack another nation's military apparatus, instead of targeting civilian populations. I'm also willing to bet the weapons would be more along the lines of these "nuclear bunker-busters" we've been hearing about lately.

I do agree with you though, attacking a large civilian population with a powerful weapon is an atrocity.

If you do read this for some reason, I recommend reading up on the firebombing of Dresden in 1945!
It put things in perspective, at least for me.

Armies I would like to see

[fabiolrs]

It would be soooooo cool to have the largest armies fighting against each other. USA, China, Russia and many other countries have great armies and letting than fighting each other would be the coolest thing ever!!!

Re:Armies I would like to see

[Anonymous Coward]

grow up.

Re:Armies I would like to see

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be cool if you could have your finger on the button in the game too. Either play World War 3 or a fight against Aliens. Maybe you could have spies try and get two other countries to fight each other like in that James Bond movie. The only problem with this game is it would take a year playing it non-stop to beat the game normally.

Think if the game used the MS Flight Simulator world.

Re:Armies I would like to see

[fabiolrs]

I played WW3 for a while... it uses the same engine that Moon Project uses isnt it? I liked it but I dont know, I still prefer Empire Earth! :)) I think its about time to have a military simulator using MS world and todays fighters (not 1920s CFS fighters)... it would be nice to fly the whole world using a B2 or drop a 100mton nuclear bomb using a Tu-192!!! :))

Re:Armies I would like to see

[mgblst]

You are talking about inside a game arent you??

Re:Armies I would like to see

[fabiolrs]

of course!!! i dont like wars except in games... here we can kill as many people as we want and then heal then just by clicking a button! :))

nice explosions...

[super-flex-o-matic]

"buildings can be huge in generals which make some nice explosions."

not only in generals huge buildings make nice explosions.

by the way: a sketch of a detention camp - is this a joke? do people you put in a detention camp give you extra points?

Re:nice explosions...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a friend who drowns the people who piss her off in Roller Coaster Tycoon. Doesn't everybody do that?

She also drowns lazy workmen who don't clean up the vomit.

Sounds interesting

[Rackemup]

Sounds like an interesting game, I just hope it's better than C&C Renegade... all the reviews for Renegade have been mediochre at best. good try, just poor execution.

C&C Generals uses the same basic engine but it's cool to see them trying to reflect current events in a video game. Maybe the media will portray the people playing it as "training for the fight against terrorism".. well ok, not likely. =)

Re:Sounds interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

mediochre

Is that some kind of D&D monster? As in, "The mediochre slimes you for 3 damage points." Or, "The mediocre spelling causes you to go insane."

Re:Kate Botello on TechTV

[Anonymous Coward]

How about Rosane Barr/Arnold or whatever her name is now.

Excellent game.

[Steven_Wostoen]

I was invited over for a sneak-preview earlier this year by Mark Skaggs, and I'll tell you one thing: the rotation potential (of the 3D) graphics on this game, especially the scenery, is two generations of anything currently available on the market.

A lot of thought has also been put into the units and plot of the game, it hasn't been an ad-hoc composition of cliched parts as many games in the last few years have been in terms of storyline/plot.

The C&C Generals team are really friendly guys, and work in a relaxed atmosphere, which is important in any game production unit. I'll have to give a thumbs up to this game, and highly recommend it. The guys have worked hard on it and deserve success with it. Unfortuantely I have a feeling that the User interface won't go down extremely well with most consumers, but I understand them trying to break away from the traditional style of UI driving.

Anyway, it should be a cracker of a game.

Re:Excellent game.

[vena]

it hasn't been an ad-hoc composition of cliched parts as many games in the last few years have been in terms of storyline/plot.

*cough*maxpayne*cough*

Re:Excellent game.

[rtaylor]

It'll take alot for me to believe it's a couple of generations ahead of Machines due to 3d graphics.

Even TA did a rather good job in its time, it's just too bad they didn't have a better AI.

Re:Excellent game.

[Steven_Wostoen]

It'll take alot for me to believe it's a couple of generations ahead of Machines due to 3d graphics.

Machines graphics are very good, but what I was referring to wasn't the quality of the images themselves, but rather the rotation potential of the split-time rendering of the surface textures. The reason that C&C Generals graphics will be two generations ahead of anything else in the market, including Acclaim's Machines, is that speed and reaction time of the back-objects inserted into the graphics framework, which allow dynamic postproduction using built-in "back-object 3D hooks". This, opposed to the static postproduction and use of traditional scripting within external modelling tools, makes C&C Generals graphics look a lot more responsive, cleaner, and more realistic, if a bit more resource intensive.

Re:Excellent game.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're back!

I've missed you!!!

Catching them as usual, I see :)

Re:Excellent game.

[erasmus_]

Sure, let's mention a game with incredible graphics, fun weapons, and cool bullet-time effects. Most cliched last year would have to be maybe .. hmm .. Return to Castle Wolfenstein, perhaps? Besides having a synonym of "retread" and "rehash" right there in the title, the models just look incredibly blocky. Compare something simple, like Max Payne furniture and RtCW's - Payne's looks real, while the latter looks like slapped together rectangular shapes. Oh, I'm also happy that RtCW finally got the idea of having multiple weapons assigned to the same key/category - that was innovative when Half-Life did that in 1998. Out of all the games last year, you can find much better targets to pick on than Max Payne.

Re:Excellent game.

[HydroCarbon10]

I was invited over for a sneak-preview earlier this year by Mark Skaggs, and I'll tell you one thing: the rotation potential (of the 3D) graphics on this game, especially the scenery, is two generations of anything currently available on the market.

I'd hope it was at least two generations ahead, as that's probably how long it'll take before we see the game ;-).

Re:Excellent game.

[Anonymous Coward]

The game should be out dec 2002 =)

Re:wr

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on man, try harder. Is that the best you can troll? Never go fishing, do ya?

Westwood is unreliable

[CrazyJim0]

Dune 2 was fun. Everyone wrote in for multiplayer and regnerating spice. C&C was fun.
Red alert was blah. C&C2 was a bug filled imbalance fest that it seemed like nobody tried on.

You'd think the games would get better over time. But they have Hasbro syndrome, where they try and sell off the name. I bet C&C 3d is going to suck royal balls.

Re:Westwood is unreliable

[GenetixSW]

If you were to read the article, you'd learn that your fears are unfounded. C&C:G is being developed by EA Pacific and not Westwood Studios. Westwood will be used for filming alone, while every other aspect of the game will be done in Irvine (headquarters of EA Pactific). Furthermore, the EA Pacific branch was responsible for Red Alert 2 and Yuri's Revenge (add-on), both of which were some of the most revered games to come out in 2000-2001. This game _will_ be good.

Out of curiosity, did you even think before writing your post? They're talking about C&C: Generals, not C&C3

Wow, great piece of work!

[Daath]

Great article, if not a bit long. But great, I'm impressed with Skaggs and his team, with the awesome graphics of C&C:G - This might be the RTS game that brings me back to the genre that I left so long ago in favor of 3D FPS games!
I can't wait to go buy it! I just hope that they won't mind emulation servers ;) Blizzard blowz!

Great Game

[Bender Unit 22]

I have been playing it since it came out, and was once in the top 50 of all players, but since I do have a life, it was hard to maintain.(that and the problems with the ranking system causing it to be reset at least once)

No Linux.
Right now there is, in my view, a major showstopper and that is the lack of a linux version of the server.
Right now you either has to install the full game or obtain a special server version from Westwood. But still on Windows. If they want this to catch on, they really need to port the server to Linux.

Little Information.
The information for setting up a server is hard to come by. Granted, this is a new game, but if there is one thing that they should know by now by watching other popular games is that if it must survive they need a good batch of fast access servers available on the net. Making it Windows only and no really helpful information for people who wants to set up a server does not help them. In the real world, game admins does not have unlimited time to figure out how to setup a dedicated server that runs well. When your day is booked full with users screaming, the ones that screams for a c&c server will be but further down the queue because the time needed to satisfy them could(and will) be used to help 4 times as many.
There has also been some people running these server claiming that it uses a lot of bandwidth, a lot more than your everyday FPS, but I can't confirm this since the no Linux issue has prevented me from setting up servers for public use. I am sorry but there is no way that we are intalling Windows servers. The game servers many places does, for some reason, not get the attention and money they should so getting the hardware and software is a matter of begging for it, collecting bits and parts And with a non-exising budget the begging credits won't be used for Windows licences :-)

Re:Great Game

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, your talking about renegade. The game in question: Generals, is not out yet.

I haven't been able to play C&C

[Anonymous Coward]

Westwood, in their infinite wisdom, never decided to make Red Alert for Macintosh, so I haven't had the pleasure of playing.

Let's just hope that there is a Macintosh version, or possibly Linux.

Westwood and Gamespot fake screenshots

[SMN]

I hate to break it to you, but Westwood has a history of faking development screenshots and lying about what features have already been implemented. They did it for Tiberian Sun and they did it for Renegade, and all of the gaming magazines and websites (including Gamespot) will happily fall for it when they get a chance to have "exclusive" news. And the poor saps reading this probably won't realize they've been duped until it takes 4 years for the game to come out (Renegade) or the final version of the game has inferior graphics and fewer features than the article says WW has _already_ developed (Tiberian Sun). I'll believe this when I see it.

Re:Westwood and Gamespot fake screenshots

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, I hate to bash the poeple who brought me C&C in the first place, but I was HIGHLY disapointed with renegade it was as if the designers lacked complete creativity in structure design. But hell, thanx to the demo I was able to quickly cancel my preorder for the game.

Dw

Re:Westwood and Gamespot fake screenshots

[Anonymous Coward]

And qhy do yo think they lacked crativity in sturcture design?
Oh, yes, it is a LIMIT on how big you can have structures in multiplayer! The levels are enourmous already, and having 3+ story buildings would consume EVEN MORE CPU power and bandwith.
The structures in singleplayer will be/is huge, but you simply cant have a such level of detail in multiplayer.

Re:Westwood and Gamespot fake screenshots

[Anonymous Coward]

Believe me when I say I can see your point of view. However, here is why I disagree with you:

1. Unreal Tournament looks better. True it has no weather effects. True inside/outside levels that look decent were created by users well after the game was released. Even UNREAL had a beautifully designed inside/outside detail. I am sure that renegade will look better as it gets older.

2. Giants Citizen Kabuto. Scale was huge for terrain small for buildings, but it would be possible to scale down the land and increase the building scale without much performance loss/ if not gain.

3.CounterStrike Ok so it may be hard to compare with the MOD that redefined gaming and sold copies of half-life through the roof, breaking all sorts of records. Oh, but wait that was three years ago. Today Westwood states that renegade is to have state of the art graphics. I believe that they have some state of the art graphical features, but that is about it.

Not that westwood would have known my vision for the game, or should they have cared. What I envisioned before I played the demo was not, for example with GDI Barracks, to go into a basically empty rectangle building with some texturing on the walls, yet instead to see maybe some bunk beds, etc. Ala COUNTERSTRIKE. I could care less how big their structures were I think they are of good & reasonable size and scaled well to the original game. I just would have liked to see a bit more detail inside the buildings. Even for multi player.

Thanks for your discussion,
DW

Re:Westwood and Gamespot fake screenshots

[Geoff Keighley]

The screenshots are real, we've seen the game running and actually will have some video footage to post in the coming weeks. I agree the team has a lot of work ahead of them to make a 2002 release, but the screenshots definitely aren't photoshopped.

Re:Westwood and Gamespot fake screenshots

[SMN]

As much as I'd like to believe you -- you appear to be the article's author, although there's always the chance that you're a troll imposter =) -- we've heard that same exact line about Westwood games too many times before. The first articles about Tiberian Sun and Renegade both swore that the magazines/websites had seen the game running and that they were actual screenshots -- and those were all lies. The later excuse was that the screenshots were created to "match the features we expected to be in the final product," but that goes against everything the early previews said.

And do I trust GameSpot? While I don't know offhand how often GameSpot has written articles using doctored screenshots, I do know that GameSpot acquired GameCenter. GameCenter was the first site to have a preview of SimCity 3000 (must have been a long time ago now), and they were proudly showing off a whole bunch of screenshots of a full-3d SimCity and writing about how beautiful it truly was. A few weeks later, Maxis backpedaled and announced that SC3k would only be 2d -- they admitted that a fully 3d simcity was beyond the capabilities of current hardware, even the top-of-the-line dual Pentium Pro 200s (I ran a very popular fan site - may it RIP - and received a copy of that official announcement from Aimee Howe at Maxis, back in February 98). So if Maxis says it won't run on their hardware, how could GameCenter claim that Maxis came to their office and ran it on their computers? In fact, the article had a whole page on whatever tech Maxis supposedly developed to make the 3d possible by scaling the amount of detail to the hardware capability. The answer is simple -- GameCenter, like so many other game-hype-publications, outright lied to its readers. So while the reasons I'm doubtful here are purely circumstantial, I've seen this total lack of integrity among simial publications too often to fall for it again.

The formula is getting a bit old

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope there actually is some new ideas added to the RTS genre, because it has been getting really old now - Red Alert 2 was basically like all the other C&C games (plus better graphics).

What I really want to see out of RTS games is full 3D movement (moving in a 3D space). The control system has to be good for this, and others have tried and failed before. I really hope the C&C people can actually do something innovative and advance the genre, rather than having RTS' bogged down by terrible clone games.


OT bit: If anybody is living in the UK and is interested in open source you should remember this Slashdot article on a consultation for the use of open-source in the UK government. If you have any constructive comments read the Slashdot page, and read the linked articles and comment: the more opinion the better

Re:The formula is getting a bit old

[Anonymous Coward]

"full 3D movement" with a good control system eh. Heard of Homeworld, and its even better semi-sequel, Homeworld: Cataclysm? Those games allowed full 3D movement while never overwhelming or confusing the player with excessive data. Try them for something different in RTS. There are other games that are far from clones of the classics you mentioned: Sacrifice, Giants (an RTS to some degree), Ground Control, Commandos, and many others. There's no dearth of creativity in the RTS genre ;-)

The team leader

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like the team is being led by an idiot who hasnt had one sucessful game i nthe past

i.e., his software hosue a failure, Emperor : Battle for Dune was a failure, so was Renegade...

Another one in a good series..

[NeoCode]

If anyone remembers, and if I can recall correctly, this started with a story they did on Black and White. I loved the piece they did on B&W. It not only told a lot about the game but also about what exactly goes on behind the scenes. The 3D model, the music, the graphics, artwork, debugging and so on.

I think that was by far the most entertaining of all. So much so that after I read the article, the next day I bought the game. First reason was that I wanted to see how B&W played and second was that I wanted to support the developers' hard work. And it was well worth it.

These articles give an in-depth view of the development process so you can relate to it and hopefully come to appreciate the game even better. I hope they keep doing it.

Wake up!

[NDPTAL85]

1. Generals isn't out yet so wtf are you talking about.

2. " If they want this to catch on, they really need to port the server to Linux." Are you one of those folks who are so deluded that you actually think there is a large Linux gaming market out there?

Re:Wake up!

[Anonymous Coward]

" If they want this to catch on, they really need to port the server to Linux." Are you one of those folks who are so deluded that you actually think there is a large Linux gaming market out there?

Look, if you want to bury your head in the sand, go ahead. There are tens... no, HUNDREDS of people who would buy a Linux version of a game that costs an average of $2 million to produce and market.

At $8,000 a pop, it would only take 250 Linux games sold before the company started seeing a profit. The additional 50-60 games sold after that would be gravy!

Re:Wake up!

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose that's why Loki went bankrupt earlier this year.

linux != gamingOS.

Re:Wake up!

[Radical Rad]

1. Generals isn't out yet so wtf are you talking about.
2. " If they want this to catch on, they really need to port the server to Linux." Are you one of those folks who are so deluded that you actually think there is a large Linux gaming market out there?

He specifically stated that he was talking about the porting the server not the client. It's even right there in the snippet that you quoted. So what is with your vicious knee-jerk reaction against his comment?

If you don't understand what clients and servers are, don't be too embarassed to ask. That would be better than flaming someone for making a comment that goes over your head.

Genitals?!?

[LiENUS]

Am I the only one who misread that as "Command and Conquer Genitals?" I was expecticing some bizare comic version where you conquer STDsss

Re:Genitals?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

To be blunt, yes.

Re:Genitals?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

If I was such a freak, I'd try to keep it a little more private, just FYI.

Re:Genitals?!?

[frobozz3.141]

I was expecticing some bizare comic version where you conquer STDsss

A Command and Conquer game where you control microbes? No, that'd be called Divide and Conquer.

-Frobozz

Re:Genitals?!?

[LiENUS]

I get it from my mom...

Keep it real or don't. Don't go halfway....

[tickleboy2]

I've been a fan of C&C games since the start, but I was slightly disappointed with Red Alert 2. Here you have a great game with great units until you can start building mind controlled dolphins and squids! I'm sorry but I'm surprised that the developer that created these units didn't get laughed out of the design meeting. The secret is, either keep the game moderatedly realistic, or don't. The first C&C game was great because most of the units were realistic, and then there were a couple of units that were just a little far fetched (cloking tank, Ion cannon). Instead of using these so called fantasy units, why don't they focus on some new weapons that we might actually see in the future? For example: Star Wars, Missle Defence, etc. But I also enjoy the so called "fantasy" games like Starcraft, but here they didn't incorporate any realisim into the game. So Westwood, please do us a favor and do one or the other, but don't do both!

Re:Keep it real or don't. Don't go halfway....

[Jeffrey Baker]

I thought the reason C&C was great was because of the far-out units. Pile 5 engineers into an APC, drive the APC over some crates until it becomes cloaked, then skate into the enemy base unseen with 5 engineers. Sell all the buildings and you win.

At least, that's the main strategy I usually employed.

Re:Keep it real or don't. Don't go halfway....

[filtersweep]

You might as well play Starcraft... I'd prefer not to have those "tricky tricks" that fly in the face of the spirit of the game... sure I can surround everything by dogs, but that is just a cheap ploy to use a sneak attack- and it only works against a newbie.

As the "typical" (according to some article I can't believe) gamer, I'm a married male who doesn't have the rest of my life to learn all the crazy, arcane strengths and liabilities of all the odd units... kind of like playing a Mortal Combat type game where the six-fingered mutants are able to crush you with all the arcane button-move combinations that I can't even remember when I need them...

I'd STILL prefer the RTS genre to be more of an animated chess (or go) game than the brute-force ass-bangs I usually see in online play... and I could care less about playing the AI.

I'd prefer a "sense" of realism over anything, whether it be realism of unit strength, or "physical" size of units, or whatever- but I don't want real time waits (ie. three months to receive new units). Sure these games are set in the future, and sure, they are just games... and I don't want something so dull as MS' overly realistic forray into RTS games... whatever that thing was called (with each players' morale meters).

What I like about CC is that it is a campaign game... I'm not a fan of first-person shootups (face your enemy, no aiming required... you'll hit 'em). I'd rather see a game where I can choose my level of participation, toggle between different units, set up the attack, then participate first person in a chosen unit. I doubt with the thousands of units that end up in a large campaign that this is even possible, but it would certainly add a different dimension to the game.

And promo screen shots always look worlds beyond what I see in actual gameplay...

F-22??

[Anonymous Coward]

Those F-22 in the screenshots are more like an YF-23 to me.

Like a model train set

[cvd6262]

Pics like this one show off the great HO-looking gameplay. This is actualy why I did a little model train stuff as a kid (never got into it seriously). It was so I could pretend to blow things up, fight wars, etc.

Civilization

[Anonymous Coward]

is another cool game

This game is being rushed.

[Anonymous Coward]

After reading the entire article, they keep bringing about the point that they are tyring to RUSH this game out the door before the end of the year.

This Scares Me.

Imbalances, Almost zero beta testing time. Sure they got the engine, but with a TIGHT design schedule, i'm expecting nothing reveloutionary for the C&C series besides the graphics overhaul.

With there tight pressed schedule they even said they couldent fit in some of the stuff they wanted to, so what would make this game any different than any other C&C game besides the graphics overhaul?

I'm skeptic.

Re:This game is being rushed.

[Anonymous Coward]

the graphics overhaul is important. lets face it - C&C is entertaning enough without anything but a graphics overhaul.
now if only they would allow large masses of units like 500-600 soldiers and also allow a p-200 with a regular 2D graphics card to play it...

What About Tiberian Twilight?

[wpmegee]

Apparently, Westwood has given up on the Tiberian Sun Series. C&C was Dawn, then Tiberian sun, and C&C 3 would have been twilight.

IMHO, I thought the idea of alien (?) lifeforms and cool technology far more interesting than an alternate past or future (Red Alert et al). The titans, MLRS's and such were much cooler units too. RA2 was fun, but the AI was the real problem. Too Predictable. But since killing terrorists is en vogue, it'll definitely sell.

Mac First!

[pinkpineapple]

"...and it will be shipping for Mac OS X a month before being released for the PC."

This are great news!

PPA, the girl next door.

Why the hype?

[Wanjoon]

Did anyone ever play Ground Control? IMO that's the definitive 3-D RTS game right there. Features:

1) Tactical advantage for operating in shadows
2) Tactical advantage for being situated at higher elevations
3) Damage bonus for flanking
4) Intuitive waypoint system with no limit on # of waypoints (GREATLY reduced the amount of multitasking you had to do)
5) Stable formations. Units remain in same position relative to other units even if you move the formation.
5) No building or resource collecting (just how realistic is it to build war factories over the duration of a single battle, anyway?)
6) Surviving units gain experience, hence perform more better in subsequent battles (faster movement, improved accuracy, inflict greater damage, etc.)
7) Advanced squad AI. A range of tactics to choose from, as in Homeworld.

Quite honestly, I don't see what all the hubbub over the new C&C is about. I also think it's downright inappropriate to be able to play the terrorists. At a time when we really ought to be respecting our soldiers, we're going to be playing a game where we can just click on them and order them dead? Deriving enjoyment out of such a thing makes me sick.

Re:Why the hype?

[Anonymous Coward]

I also think it's downright inappropriate to be able to play the terrorists. At a time when we really ought to be respecting our soldiers, we're going to be playing a game where we can just click on them and order them dead? Deriving enjoyment out of such a thing makes me sick.

Any type of war should make you sick.

Re:Why the hype?

[corey_lawson]

As opposed to Grand Theft Auto:3? They're both only games.

Behold The Power of Ignorance

[normiep]

(With apologies to Goats)

Folks this magnificent troll is actually a reincarnation (probably the same person, given that the quality is about the same) of this one. Moderators, p-p-p-please mod this accordingly. Its embarrassing to see this at the top of the comments.

Confused?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Red Guards -are- a terrorist organization.

Re:Confused?

[Jamiecncsector]

There is 3 teams. Play with three sides. China, the Global Liberation Army, and finally the US. also each team has 10 levels each =)

Your Forgetting C&C Renegade

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time Westwood tried to make a 3D engine they ended up with Renegade which is not good or clever. (47% - PCGamer UK)