Slashdot Mirror


Tattered Cover v. Thornton Reversed

TheMatt writes "In a victory for all those who like the First Amendment, the Colorado Supreme Court today reversed and remanded 'Tattered Cover v. Thornton'. The case concerned the Thornton police attempting to use a search warrant to gain access to the book-buying records of a suspected criminal. The Tattered Cover asserted First Amendment rights and refused to comply with the warrant. It is believed this will be heard by the US Supreme Court eventually." I can only imagine what the Tattered cover's legal bill must be like.

339 comments

  1. That sound you hear..... by s1r_m1xalot · · Score: 5, Funny

    is the death shriek of an innocent server running Apache on a PII 450 somewhere in central Colorado...
    May God have mercy on Tattered Cover's admin. ;)

    1. Re:That sound you hear..... by Tackhead · · Score: 3, Funny
      > is the death shriek of an innocent server running Apache on a PII 450 somewhere in central Colorado... May God have mercy on Tattered Cover's admin. ;)

      New .gov negotiating position: "Well, their legal bills didn't bankrupt 'em, but their bandwidth bills sure will!" ;-)

    2. Re:That sound you hear..... by fwankypoo · · Score: 1

      Actually, as of 18:08EST they seem to be doing pretty well;)

      --
      The time of day is 29:33.
    3. Re:That sound you hear..... by Selanit · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, the Tattered Cover is quite well-heeled. I live in Denver, and the place is a Mecca for book lovers. It's the largest bookstore for a thousand miles in any direction. They have a second branch in LoDo (Lower-Downtown) which is smaller but still of quite a respectable size.

      The main branch in downtown Denver has four stories of books (plus a basement). The fifth floor is a well-reviewd restaurant that serves fantastic garlic potatoes (among other things). Oh, and they have a coffee bar which serves the best cappucino in Denver.

      The decor is tasteful and friendly; a big selling point in the Tattered Cover is that they provide lots of big, over-stuffed chairs and let you sit down and read before you buy. In some ways, it feels more like a library than a book store. Their selection of books is phenomenal; There's only one book I've been unable to obtain from them, and that was "On the Erythraean Sea" by Agatharchides of Cnidus. (Contains the only contemporary account of gold-mining techniques in Ptolemaic Egypt; hardly New York Times Best Seller List material.)

      From what I've heard, they have a yearly revenue of a couple million. So, chances are that their web server is more likely to be a dual-cpu RAM-out-the-wazoo behemoth than a PII 450.

    4. Re:That sound you hear..... by rutledjw · · Score: 1
      Not wanting to be picky, but isn't the Tattered Cover with the restaurant in Cherry CReek (the name of the restaurant being The Fourth Story?).

      I think that's what you meant. There;s LoDo and Cherry Creek. Both are quite nice, but Creek is bigger and has the restaurant

      --

      Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
    5. Re:That sound you hear..... by stylewagon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry to be a pain but they're actually running Netscape-Enterprise/3.6 SP3 on Solaris. Uptime looks good.

      --

      *** I am the real stylewagon

    6. Re:That sound you hear..... by bkirkby · · Score: 1

      Ah, yes. The Tattered Cover has a special place in my heart because that's where I got my first copy of Linux. The year was 1994 and I was visiting Denver on business. At that time, there were no bookstores online and I usually made a habit to visit local bookstores wherever I went because the place I live has a derth of computer books available (i.e. X for Dummies). A local told me to try the Tattered Cover.

      To my surprise, I found the basement was floor to ceiling with computer books with a whole section dedicated to Unix (and a small subsection dedicated to Linux). I bought Linux Network Administrator's Guide by Olaf Kirch ($18.95)and it came with a CD of all the known distributions of Linux at that time.

      I chose to install SlackWare on my 386. Little did I know, this educational OS was going to make a huge difference in the industry.

      I still have the book and wonder if it'll have collectors value some day.

      -bk

    7. Re:That sound you hear..... by zummit · · Score: 1

      Ah, yes. The Tattered Cover has a special place in my heart because that's where I got my first copy of Linux.

      Same feeling here (special place in my heart) but instead of Linux, I was surprised to find that they STOCK the book The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herer.

    8. Re:That sound you hear..... by #!/bin/allen · · Score: 1

      The Tattered Cover is one of the most wonderful and comfortable places in Denver (Cherry Creek). My Programming Perl first edition still has the original TC Hop Up and Read bookmark.

      My parents and brothers live around Denver, in fact my brother helped them move from their old location to the "new" Cherry Creek building. The Tattered Cover is always a mandatory stop when we visit. My son and I drove to Denver over the MLK weekend from our home in middle Tennessee. Of the 42 hours we spent in Denver, three were at the TC.

      You can probably tell how much this bookstore has meant to our family. We are very proud of the fact that they have taken a risky position in the struggle against total government control over individuals.

      Thanks TC,
      Allen Buck

      --
      sed 's/commun/terror/g' mccarthy > bush; sed 's/terror/saddam/g' bush > bush_wacked
  2. Tattered cover is a GREAT bookstore! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    3 (or is it 4?) BIG floors. Kinda like a B&M Amazon.com

    1. Re:Tattered cover is a GREAT bookstore! by Philbert+Desenex · · Score: 2

      3 floors and basement in the Cherry Creek location. 3 floors in downtown ("Lo Do") location.

      Parenthetically - the Tattered Cover used to use a QNX-based system to do all their inventory and point-of-sale stuff. I was in the Tattered Cover last week but I can't recall what they used.

  3. Judgeorama? by RollingThunder · · Score: 5, Funny
    JUSTICE BENDER delivered the Opinion of the Court.


    "The prosecution can bite my shiny, metal ass. Case dismissed."
    1. Re:Judgeorama? by Puk · · Score: 2

      Futurama notwithstanding, I think this name would be really scary for a judge.

      "Move for a change of venue, since we cannot possibly trust anyone known as Justice Bender to uphold the law faithfully. I'm sure that this case would be better handled by Justice Forsale."

      -Puk

      p.s. That said, I think Justice Breaker would be a great name for a pro wrestler.

    2. Re:Judgeorama? by qslack · · Score: 2

      Wouldn't Judge Kaplan, the residing judge over the DeCSS case, be a JUSTICE BENDER too?

    3. Re:Judgeorama? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Justice Bender, the eternally hung-over judge.

    4. Re:Judgeorama? by teslatug · · Score: 3, Funny

      Is the judge a woman? "Single female lawyer, fighting for her clients, wearing tiny mini-skirts, and being self-reliant"

    5. Re:Judgeorama? by CaptainStormfield · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. Justice bender is a he. here is his bio.

      --
      "The dinosaurs died because they didn't have a space program." - Niven
    6. Re:Judgeorama? by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2

      I'd be a lot more scared if I was in front of Judge Fang.

      "Ok, he's guilty."
      "What! Wait, don't I get to defend myself?"
      "Don't be an asshole."

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    7. Re:Judgeorama? by LordNimon · · Score: 1

      No, he's JUSTICE BENDOVER.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    8. Re:Judgeorama? by pogopogo · · Score: 2, Funny

      And the Chief Justice' name is MULLARKEY. As in bull mullarkey I suppose. What the heck is going on in CO? Are the picking funny names out of the phone book and offering them spots on the state Supreme Court?

    9. Re:Judgeorama? by jafac · · Score: 3, Funny

      Justice Dredd?

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    10. Re:Judgeorama? by JatTDB · · Score: 1

      Here in Rockdale County, Georgia (home of high-school syphillis problems and school shootings where the kid can't even manage 1 kill) we have a judge named Judge Nation. And he is every bit of the hardass that such a name suggests. When I first heard it, I really thought it had to be a joke.

      --
      "That's Tron. He fights for the Users."
    11. Re:Judgeorama? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      we have a judge named Judge Nation.

      I don't get it.

    12. Re:Judgeorama? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because you're a fag.

    13. Re:Judgeorama? by nobody69 · · Score: 1

      Hey, he'll throw in a few nuggets of Confucian (sp) wisdom for you to contemplate while you're being flogged, so there's a silver lining with Fang, at least...

      --
      "Bugger this, I want a better world." - Jenny Sparks
    14. Re:Judgeorama? by badnews · · Score: 1

      and Oregon has Helen Fry.

      you want Justice? goto Helen Fry!

      's truth.

  4. As a colorado Native by Kasmiur · · Score: 1

    I am filled with much joy to see this. Am so glad tattered cover won.

    now to correct my spelling

    --
    -THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
    1. Re:As a colorado Native by Ribo99 · · Score: 1

      Me too! A Christmas Eve visit to the Tattered Cover has been a family tradition for many years. I hope they weren't hurt too much in legal fees.

      --
      I wear pants.
  5. Not first post by DrMrLordX · · Score: 0

    When nothing but second best will do . . .

  6. It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by dave-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's bad enough that the RIAA wants to watch who's listening to what and where and how. It's bad enough that the MPAA wants to make sure you don't watch DVDs in the wrong country on the wrong brand of TV. It's horrible that they've bought enough senators to have their way with us, but it's fucking untenable that what we read can be subpeoaned and used against us.
    Reading, music and movies are all unsafe at any speed. Let me know if you find a hobby I can enjoy without feeling someone's eyes on my back.

    --
    Easy does it!
    This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
    1. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by swagr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Think about how much time, money, and other resources the average person spends protecting their freedom: 2 minutes on Slashdot compaining. Now lets think about how much time, money and other resources these organizations spend trying to take away our freedon: 24/7/365, millions of dollars, any resource they can use (advertizing, lawyers, congress).

      Who do you think will win this fight?

      --

      -... --- .-. . -.. ..--..
    2. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      better drop the internet too if you are that worried

    3. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by xonker · · Score: 1

      Who do you think will win this fight?

      If history is any guide, individual freedom always wins... even if the individual who starts the fight doesn't live to see it. The real question is how bad any particular abuse has to get before a majority of people fight against it. The government, churches and other institutions have long been trying to limit personal freedoms and the free flow of information all throughout recorded history.

      One way or another, the restrictions have always crumbled. It may be of little consequence to those currently experiencing the brunt of those institutions, but over the long haul freedom always wins. This is not to say that people shouldn't be fighting or speaking up -- but all too often the restriction of personal freedoms has to become very oppressive before people will expend serious effort to fight it.

    4. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by rmohr02 · · Score: 1

      And we don't have the right to play CD's in computers either. What's next, DVDs that can't be played in a DVD player that allows writing to DVDs? VHS tapes that won't play in VCRs?

      I think the government should stop with all of this sh*t and have police snipers pick people off as they try to leave stores like Circuit City, CompUSA, etc. That would make more sense.

    5. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by Bishop · · Score: 2

      Our little blip on the histroric radar can't be used as a guide to say "individual freedom always wins." In fact it is probably easier to support the hypothosis that individual freedoms are usually surpressed. We are the anomoly not the norm.

    6. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by xonker · · Score: 1

      I'm not referring merely to the United States, I'm referring to the entire span of recorded history.

      The US and the idea of individual freedoms that we now have did not spontaneously spring into being. It's been the result of a steady progression. It's been very slow, no doubt about that.

      Look at the British, for example. They've slowly gone from a country ruled absolutely be a king, to a country with a king that essentially co-ruled with parliament to a country that has royalty as figureheads only. This has taken hundreds of years, but it's very unlikely that the British will revert to a monarchy or accept a serious decline in personal freedoms.

      Please give an example of a personal freedom that came into being and then was successfully eradicated. Yes, certain countries/governments have managed to curtail personal freedoms for a time -- I doubt Cubans are more free under Castro than they were under the previous government -- but as a general trend, personal freedoms will always prevail. The fact is that there is a larger percentage of the population that gains from any given personal freedom than the percentage of the population that gains from oppressing them. Eventually, the majority realizes this.

    7. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by ThePilgrim · · Score: 1

      Havn't you heard of Pres^H^H^H^H Poodle^W Priminister Blair.

      --
      Wouldn't it be nice if schools got all the money they wanted and the army had to hold jumble sales for guns
    8. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAve a wank. It's nearly guaranteed that they'll turn their back then...

    9. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by maxpublic · · Score: 2

      History doesn't bear you out. There are many examples of 'free' societies (by the standards of the time) which eventually devolved into dictatorships, were conquered by foreigners, or simply collapsed altogether. This has happened time and again over recorded history.

      The last few hundred years are a very small sample, and we must remember that the vast majority of the worlds population labors under brutal, dictatorial regimes. If anything, the First World is an anomaly which seems to be moving away from freedom much as other societies have done in the past. And with the support of the majority of its citizens, who no longer believe in rights which directly contribute to freedom (e.g., privacy).

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    10. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by Bishop · · Score: 2

      One example that easily comes to mind is the huge number of police cameras in England. Closer to home look at drug use and the war on drugs. You can be locked away for life for simple possesion.

      If the majority of society supports a removal of freedom, that freedom will be lost. Society, at least publically, supports harsh sentences for minor drug offences. The freedom to smoke up has been sucessfully eradicated.

    11. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by xonker · · Score: 1

      The last few hundred years are a very small sample

      Again, I'm not talking about just the last hundred years -- I'm talking about the entire sweep of recorded history.

      Again, I'll ask: please provide a specific example of an individual freedom that has evolved that has been done away with. You cannot, because it has not happened. Here's the cycle as I see it: people feel that a particular freedom or freedoms are being repressed, eventually they rebel, usually they win. Over time, the people who do not have to fight for these freedoms relax until, again, they begin to feel repressed and the cycle starts again.

      Once the genie is out of the bottle, so to speak, it doesn't go back willingly. Yes, various "free" societies have devolved or collapsed, but they also evolved out of less free societies -- and have seeded more "free" societies.

    12. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by xonker · · Score: 1

      One example that easily comes to mind is the huge number of police cameras in England.

      I would argue that this isn't really a loss of freedom. But, I also mentioned in my first post that it's a cycle, not an absolute straight line. People come to expect a given set of freedoms, they fight for them, and eventually get complacent. Someone in government, the church or other institutions tries to take away said freedoms and after a certain point people rebel (violently or not) and usually push a little farther. I think, ultimately, that the RIAA and MPAA are going to regret trying to crack down on people's ability to copy data because when the time comes that the majority of people get pissed about it they're going to go farther than just "fair use" -- they're going to go after unlimited ability to copy and a drastic reduction of copyright. Similarly, the police in Denver are probably ultimately going to wish that they had not pursued the Tattered Cover case because they're going to end up getting the Supreme Court to issue a judgement that will essentially have the force of law - namely, that bookstores do not have to give up this kind of information. Instead of it being a legal grey area, it will become rigidly defined and they are going to find the line drawn in favor of personal freedom rather than government control.

      As far as the "war on drugs." Again, I would argue that this is cyclical. If it is a "freedom" that people care about (and I'm not sure I would call using drugs a "freedom" anyway) it will eventually go the other way. The "freedom" to smoke up, shoot up, snort or pop pills has hardly ever been a popular cause or an explicit right. However, let's look at prohibition. Since a drinking age has long been legislated, we can assume that anyone over a certain age can expect the "right" to drink. Then a group of people got together and passed legislation against it. Didn't last long, did it?

    13. Re:It's a shame that this sham has gone this far. by maxpublic · · Score: 2

      Again, I'll ask: please provide a specific example of an individual freedom that has evolved that has been done away with. You cannot, because it has not happened.

      Democracy, in Athens. Or have you forgotten that Athens devolved into a monarchy and was eventually conquered?

      Rome: went from a republic to one of the worst dictatorships in recorded history, eventually conquered by barabarians.

      These are just two examples, both which gave people the right to elect their representatives and subsequently lost this right. In fact, in the western world there's no real example of democracy from the fall of Athens right up to the establishment of the Iceland colony by the Norse.

      Rights are won - and lost - all the time. It matters for dick if the *idea* survives if that idea isn't implemented. This appears to be a cycle, not a progression, and nothing in history demands that freedom become more pervasive over time. There is no historical example of this happening any time during the last 6,000 years, with the possible exception - in the First World alone - of the last 200.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
  7. Tattered cover... by doooras · · Score: 3, Funny

    i like that name.

    makes me want to start a computer company called Dented Boxen

    1. Re:Tattered cover... by jheinen · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's actually a really cool bookstore. It's positively huge - four floors, with comfy chairs and couches all over the place. They have successfully perservered as an independent bookstore in the face of competition from the big chains.

      --
      -Vercingetorix
      "Necessitas non habet legem." -St. Augustine
    2. Re:Tattered cover... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that is only 1 of their 2 stores.

    3. Re:Tattered cover... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Yeah I love the Tattered Cover because you can find many books you can't find in other Brand Name book stores. Books like "Ill Nature", "What's Wrong With a Free Lunch?", "Downsize This", Adbusters magazine and other politcally incorrect books and periodicals can't be found in Barnes & Noble. You can order them but only if you know they exist. I have heard some say that they just don't have enough room to stock all the different books and they just order what they think will sell. Well it seems more like censorship to me. Especially when you see many shelves full of books that are gathering dust but they can't stock these political books because they wouldn't sell. Please. That must be why when I ask, the clerk usually tells me that they have had many requests for the books but they have to be ordered.

    4. Re:Tattered cover... by anonymous_wombat · · Score: 1

      I liked the soft sculpture they used to have of an old man sitting in a chair reading. I think that the problem was that you sometimes had real old people sitting in chairs reading that were mistaken for soft sculptures. In any case, they are very nice bookstores. Check them out if you ever come to Denver.

    5. Re:Tattered cover... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they are referring to collectables rather then damaged goods. So if your dented boxen sold classic macs, amstrad CPC, etc alongside new machines you may have yourself a close analogy.

    6. Re:Tattered cover... by evilninja · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I think their perserverance is due largely to the fact that the founders of the other big chains outlined their business plans from inside the walls of the Tattered Cover. :)

      I'm in Denver, but I'm curious about a bit of trivia I don't know: do any other Denverites know how long the (Cherry Creek) Tattered Cover has been in business?

    7. Re:Tattered cover... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WHY THE F**** does every one keep saying Boxen!!!!! its Boxe'S' (oh and Unicies is not a word either! Unixes).

      Thank You,
      TheAnonymousCoward.

      --
      Boycott AfterSlash 'cause it sucks!

    8. Re:Tattered cover... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, that old man is still in there. He moves around some, I think he's currently on the ground floor, over in the cards section by the Coffee counter. ;)

  8. It is most likely pro bono work by try2break · · Score: 2, Informative

    In high profile cases that challenge the courts' previous decisions the work is usually done pro bono(free).

    1. Re:It is most likely pro bono work by Mr.Intel · · Score: 2

      Listed as one of the defendants attorney's:

      "ACLU Foundation of Colorado"

      My guess is that the Tattered Cover didn't pay a dime.

      --
      ASCII tastes bad dude.
      Binary it is then.
    2. Re:It is most likely pro bono work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't have to pay unless you lose.

    3. Re:It is most likely pro bono work by Random+Man · · Score: 2

      Yes, and it points out again how important the ACLU is in these times of governmental crackdown. Isn't there a great line in the American President? "Yes, Bob, I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU. The question is, why aren't you?"

      Here's the /. article that pushed me over the edge.

    4. Re:It is most likely pro bono work by Deadstick · · Score: 1

      Joyce does have some of her own money in this, but there has been lots of help. That's pretty much the pattern there...on the two occasions when they moved up to larger quarters, customers showed up with trucks and dollies and moved the books. All it cost Joyce was some beer. rj

    5. Re:It is most likely pro bono work by jcr · · Score: 2

      "Yes, Bob, I am a card-carrying member of the ACLU. The question is, why aren't you?"

      I'm not, because of a case several years ago in which they tried to ship a kid back to the Soviet Union when he didn't want to go.

      Now, if they were willing to tangle with the Scientologists in the Henson case, I might reconsider.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  9. Bills... by Totonic · · Score: 1

    ." I can only imagine what the Tattered cover's legal bill must be like." Yea, and now their bandwidth bill..poor bastards.

    1. Re:Bills... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the bookstore had legal help. For instance from Reuters:

      "... a number of national organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union, the American Library Association and the American Booksellers Foundation filed briefs with the court in support of Meskis.

      Former U.S. Rep. Pat Schroeder of Colorado, who is now president of the Association of American Book Publishers, said her organization also weighed in on Meskis' behalf in the case.. "

  10. Whoohoo! by sparrow_hawk · · Score: 2

    The little guy has to win some of the time! Anybody know if there's a fund set up for folks to donate money towards legal expenses?

    I mean, used bookstores are just *rolling* in dough. ;-)

    1. Re:Whoohoo! by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      I'm going to go out on a limb here, but perhaps you could give them money by buying books from them....

    2. Re:Whoohoo! by entrager · · Score: 1

      Actually, as a resident of Denver, I must say that the Tattered Cover probably pulls in as much revenue as any single Barnes and Noble store. Any time I've been in there, it's been quite busy.

    3. Re:Whoohoo! by sparrow_hawk · · Score: 1

      If only I lived in Denver... :-(

    4. Re:Whoohoo! by xueexueg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, you can order online. Thus simultaneously supporting the Amazon boycott.

  11. In this case by guamman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Tattered Cover may not be in the right. The first amendment protects speech, religion, and the right to openly demonstrate those. It does not protect the right to privacy. I can certainly understand the bookstores reluctance to give out its customer's purchasing records, but if the government has a warrant there might not be much that can be done. I would assume this falls under the fourth amendment about search and seizure.

    1. Re:In this case by Usquebaugh · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Of course you have researched the case and deliberated the evidence given by the prosecution/defence? I guess we now have supreme court justices posting on /.

    2. Re:In this case by FreeUser · · Score: 2

      The first amendment protects speech, religion, and the right to openly demonstrate those.

      It protects the right of association, and by implication the right not to be found guilty by association.

      What is more, the constitution as a whole protects the right to privacy, as violating our privacy is a power not expressly granted the government except in very narrow cases (and therefor, according to the 10th amendment, explicitly denied the government).

      It is a refreshing surprise that at least one court is attempting to hold the government to the constitution, something the government really hasn't done since prohibition and the creation of the FBI. How long this will last is anyone's guess, but I for one am glad Tattered Cover has the courage to at least fight the good fight, for all our sakes.

      --
      The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    3. Re:In this case by ikeleib · · Score: 1

      It's not a fourth ammendment case. The fourth ammendment protects you from unreasonable search and seizure. This falls under the first ammendment because if the government could check up on what everybody reads/hears/sees, they can effictively surpress publications that they don't like.

    4. Re:In this case by uhmmmm · · Score: 1

      You're right that this would not be in the first amendment. Maybe the fourth, but i think, rather, the right to privacy comes from the ninth (unenumerated rights).

    5. Re:In this case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The saddest part is that in exchange for doing the right thing and protecting democracy, they get the possibility of going bankrupt.

    6. Re:In this case by Mr.Intel · · Score: 1

      From the court opinion:"The Supreme Court recognizes that both the United States and Colorado Constitutions protect the rights of the general public to purchase books anonymously, without governmental interference."

      So it sounds like at least the court feels that the 1st ammendment covers anonymous book buying. What about anonymous music pirating? :-P

      --
      ASCII tastes bad dude.
      Binary it is then.
    7. Re:In this case by ichimunki · · Score: 1

      Read the statement of the Court: Thus, we conclude that the City has failed to demonstrate that its need for the Tattered Cover's customer purchase record is sufficiently compelling to outweigh the harm that would be caused to constitutional interests if the search warrant were executed. They mean first amendment interests, freedom of speech and the press. Your opinion on whether or not Tattered Cover is right is apparently superceded by the CO Supreme Court. Fortunately they seem to believe that anonymity in book purchasing underlies these free speech rights.

      --
      I do not have a signature
    8. Re:In this case by Zoop · · Score: 5, Interesting

      if the government has a warrant there might not be much that can be done

      Read the actual decision in the word document. It's pretty plain there that the expression of speech includes consuming speech without harassment, which implies a right to privacy. While it would be better explicit, this is what a woman's right to choose is (mistakenly, IMO) based on. (I'd prefer it be based on property rights, but that's a whole 'nuther argument).

      There's a lot of constitutional scholarship that has found a right to privacy implicit in the other rights, including those expressed in the First Amendment. This decision attempts to set up a test, essentially that the hated "compelling state interest," must be determined in an adversarial proceeding before seizure occurs--that means not just the DA and a judge in a darkened room, but a hearing giving the affected party a chance to object. And on the basis of the facts of the case, the Court did not find compelling state interest sufficient to outweigh the constitutional harm.

      The Supreme Court may yet overturn it, but it would be an interesting precedent if upheld. That would significantly curtail the ability of police to do various seizures without a suspect's knowledge. Since several of those things (e.g. wiretaps) have passed constitutional muster before, that's where I see this to be in danger of being overturned, rather than a lack of a right to privacy.

    9. Re:In this case by jkeene · · Score: 1

      To add to your argument, banking records are not covered by the First Amendment and are routinely coughed up by banks. Telephone calling records are also readily produced, even though they could be construed as a means to limit freedom of association.

      So if this goes through to the Supremes, all sorts of things could be on the line.

    10. Re:In this case by Anonymous+DWord · · Score: 2

      Except buying books is legal (for now); copyright infringement ain't (yet). ;-)

      --
      "If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
    11. Re:In this case by Teese · · Score: 1
      The Supreme Court may yet overturn it, but it would be an interesting precedent if upheld
      Can the (presumably US) Supreme Court overturn a State Supreme Court interpreting that State's Constitution? I would guess not (unless the state constitution was unconstitutional). I would then conjecture that the US Supreme Court couldn't overturn the part of the ruling that stated it violated the Colorado constitution.

      but I'm just guessing...

      --
      "I'm a Genius!"*


      *Not an actual Genius
    12. Re:In this case by michael_cain · · Score: 1
      ... but if the government has a warrant there might not be much that can be done.
      The ruling specifically states that the issues in this case are serious enough that before such a warrant is granted, the innocent third-party bookstore is entitled to an adversarial hearing, where they are allowed to oppose granting the warrant in order to protect their first amendment rights, and those of their customers. Given such a clear requirement by the state supreme court, there are probably not many judges here willing to ignore it. Obtaining a warrant like the one in this case just got a lot harder, at least in Colorado.
    13. Re:In this case by sconeu · · Score: 2

      What is more, the constitution as a whole protects the right to privacy, as violating our privacy is a power not expressly granted the government except in very narrow cases (and therefor, according to the 10th amendment, explicitly denied the government).

      And implicitly recognized (not granted) as a right of the people by the Ninth Amendment.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    14. Re:In this case by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      If a bank had a policy of not coughing up your records but didn't have as good an interest rate (to make up for their legal costs), would you still open accounts there?

    15. Re:In this case by cduffy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, if you read the entire opinion, the judge talks quite a bit about why the 1st amendment *should* apply. To put it briefly, freedom of expression implies freedom to recieve that expression, ie. by purchasing and reading books; making it easy for law enforcement to find out who's reading what would have a substancial chilling effect on the first amendment rights of both book buyers and publishers as a whole.

    16. Re:In this case by slam+smith · · Score: 1

      The Supreme Court (SCOTUS) can pretty much do whatever the hell they want. The only hard(constitutional) limit on their power is the ability of Congress to impeach and remove judges. There are of course several "soft" limits.

      As I understand it, the federal courts in general and the Supreme Court in particular are very reluctant to intervene in state matters. They are more concerned with any existing federal issues. But this reluctance doesn't mean that they are unable to act.

    17. Re:In this case by CaptainStormfield · · Score: 1
      Look at the long list of Amicus Curaie (literally "friends of the court" -- non-parties who file a brief in the case). I wouldn't be too surprised if one or more of them did a lot of the heavy lifting in the case. For example, Thomas Kelley of Faegre and Benson is a leading First Amendment attorney in Denver.


      Disclaimer: just speculation on my part

      --
      "The dinosaurs died because they didn't have a space program." - Niven
    18. Re:In this case by ahde · · Score: 2

      Following that reasoning, the constitution also protects our right to free brie on Wednesdays. So if they try to pass some law that says I can't go to Safeway, put some soft cheese in my pocket, and walk right out through the door, they're violating the constitution.

      Just because something is not explicitly denied does not make it implicitly granted.

    19. Re:In this case by ahde · · Score: 2

      No, supressing publications they don't like would violate the first amendment. Looking for evidence from a criminal's purchases is not.

      Say I stole your credit card and went on a killing spree across the country. They think I'm headed for Mexico, so they get a warrant to see your credit card purchases to see if I'm buying gas and big gulps in a trail headed south, or north.

      Of course, this should be banned because of two reasons. 1) They could discriminate against me for drinking big gulps (a member of the jury is an evian drinker) and 2) You don't want them to know you subscribed to internet porn.

      Now, if the government abuses these privileges, then its time for a revolution (or election, heh). You can't have a government that's not allowed to govern.

    20. Re:In this case by ahde · · Score: 2

      The warrant does not allow the government to see your purchases whenever it wants. Only those of 1 criminal in 1 instance.

    21. Re:In this case by ahde · · Score: 2

      "compelling" and "interest" are not legal terms by any means, no matter how ofter lawyers use them. And remember, usually when they do, they are trying to deceive.

      Not that I don't believe in a right to privacy -- explicitly (at least partially) defined in the 3rh and 4th amendments.

    22. Re:In this case by Megs · · Score: 2
      Just because something is not explicitly denied does not make it implicitly granted.

      It does, or can, at least theoretically, when it comes to construing the Constitution, because of the wording of the 10th amendment. The federal government has no business making laws about shoplifting cheeses; that is taken care of just fine on the local level anyway.

      An argument can certainly be made that the federal government is overstepping its bounds here in one way or another without resorting to utter anarchy and cheese thievery.

      Meghan

      --
      Ask me about LOOM(TM).
    23. Re:In this case by malIgna · · Score: 1

      After having read the decision, I believe that the text clears up why it is a freedom of speech issue.

      The general gist is that people would not express their right to read and purchase what ever they want without protection from those who would persecute them for expressing certain interests.

      --
      Nothing to see here, move along.
    24. Re:In this case by sdowney · · Score: 2, Informative

      Since the decision is EXPLICITLY grounded in the Colorado constitution's Article 2, rather than in the First Amendment, the US Supreme Court has no reason to review the case.
      Judge Bender held that the Colorado Constitution granted wider free speach protections than the First Amendment.

    25. Re:In this case by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Actually the thinking is that it exists in the 'penumbra' of several enumerated rights. The first, third, fourth and fifth amendments all contribute to the notion of the right of privacy, and the ninth is thrown in for good measure.

      IIRC this is discussed by the Supreme Court in the Griswold case.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    26. Re:In this case by Suppafly · · Score: 2

      actually the whole "right to privacy" was invented during the Roe v Wade trials.. before then there was no perceived constitutional right to privacy..just life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness(property) and if I recall correctly, both sides of the case argued their case using both the 1st and the 4th amendments.

    27. Re:In this case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trick with the courts, however, is that they have no backing authority. The legislature has the states, their armies, and their law enforcement. The executive has the armies. The judiciary hopes it can scrape together some police.

      And it has been ignored before.

    28. Re:In this case by Stonehand · · Score: 2

      And how do you know that somebody is a criminal until he is convicted? Or, perhaps, we should just assume that if he's accused, he's guilty, and therefore forfeits those rights?

      Unless the purchase of a specific book leads to clear, logical (and not just "well, that's the sort of nasty book you'd EXPECT a drug maker to buy" circumstantial arguments) evidence-based arguments... it really shouldn't be relevant.

      Now, if the book were FOUND, and it had meth all over it, and the prosecution wanted to show that THAT specific book was purchased by a defendant, then that might be material. But unless they can show that it's not just circumstantial, then it's fishing...

      --
      Only the dead have seen the end of war.
    29. Re:In this case by Stonehand · · Score: 2

      If it's a clearly bogus ruling -- from a legal perspective -- and would deny either side equal protection under the law (read: fairly and correctly applied), then it would be a Federal issue and yes, SCOTUS could overturn it.

      --
      Only the dead have seen the end of war.
    30. Re:In this case by cduffy · · Score: 2

      "1 criminal"? I find your presumption that warrants are only executed against the guilty somewhere between naiive and vaguely offensive.

      There's nothing about the usage of a warrant that implicitly provides a high standard of protection -- it simply means that a judge signed off that the existing standard has been met. What happened in this case is that the court decided that the standard used in awarding the warrant was unacceptably low, and created a new, higher one. That standard (the fulfilment of which the warrant represents) is the important thing, not the piece of paper that means it's been met.

    31. Re:In this case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a woman's right to choose is (mistakenly, IMO)

      misogynists. opinionated, and never humble.

    32. Re:In this case by Zoop · · Score: 2

      misogynists. opinionated, and never humble.

      Why is wishing for a stronger foundation for a woman's right to choose mysogynist? That would be like saying hoping that someone has a better reason for not killing a man than because they don't feel like it today is misandry.

    33. Re:In this case by Happy+go+Lucky · · Score: 1
      Actually, that's not quite completely true.

      The USSC can only rule on state constitutional questions when the question is whether the state constitution violates the Federal Constitution. For example, the USSC will not touch a question of whether the Colorado Constitution shielded the bookstore's records or not.

      Where a state constitutional provision violates some Federal Constitutional provision, then the USSC will invalidate it. An example is Amendment Two a few years ago. It passed by referendum and forbade local governments from including sexual preference in anti-discrimination codes. That caused an uproar and a bunch of celebrities announced that they were boycotting Colorado because of it. The USSC trashed the amendment as being inconsistent with the Fourteenth Amendment (equal protection) to the Federal Constitution.

      My own feelings were mixed. On the one hand, anything that keeps celebrities (and especially Baldwins) out of Colorado can't be all bad. On the other hand, I've opposed every single amendment to the state constitution that didn't come from Douglas Bruce.

    34. Re:In this case by maxpublic · · Score: 2

      "The powers not delegated to the United States by the
      Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

      The Tenth Amendment, in its entirety. Yes, this does mean that unless specifically granted the power *by the Constitution*, the Federal government simply cannot assume it by default. And that includes powers which violate privacy, as defined through the First and Fourth amendments.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    35. Re:In this case by sh00z · · Score: 1
      the court feels that the 1st ammendment covers anonymous book buying

      Read the brief. Anonymous book-buying involves walking into a store and plunking down cash. There's nothing anonymous about using a credit card and having Meth recipes mailed to your trailer home. The warrant in question *could* have been enforceable if there were a strong enough link between the evidence and the crime, but to me the bottom line of this case looks like the warrant fell apart because there was no sign that the books in question had ever actually been opened.
    36. Re:In this case by sh00z · · Score: 1

      Nope, sorry, I'm dead wrong. Didn't read far enough myself. The CO Supremes would have found the warrant enforceable ONLY if the actual content of the books were completely irrelevant to the case.

    37. Re:In this case by afniv · · Score: 2

      I read that the CO Consitution provisions for free speech is more broad than the U.S. Constitution.

      Read more at the local papers:
      The Denver Post
      Rocky Mountain News

      I think you can read more from their front pages.

      Personally, I'm confused about this whole issue (I'm local). On one hand, I don't think the police can find out what you read and prosecute you on your beliefs. But the press has been reporting that the City of Thornton wants to place a suspect at the lab by proving the receipt belongs to the suspect. But some of the quotes here from the decision makes it look like Thornton went about it the wrong way.

      --
      ~afniv
      "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
      Richard von Weizs
    38. Re:In this case by DavidTC · · Score: 1
      The right to stop you from shoplifting was granted to the states, pay attention.

      Yes, the US government has no right to pass a law saying you cannot shoplift. Only states can do that.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  12. With a warrant? What's the beef? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The legal system is based on things like search warrants and rules of evidence, admissibility, etc. Why try to attempt to stop someone from serving a warrant? Why not allow the customer to wage their own legal battle over the admissibility of their records?

    I don't see any reason to stand in their way. A judge shouldn't have issued the warrant if it would violate their constitutional rights. The defendant should argue that the admission of the evidence would introduce a bias or something.

  13. An uninformed opinion by Control+Group · · Score: 2

    I don't know the details of this case; can anyone point me to a link that gives some background? Because I have to admit, given what I've seen on their site, the First Amendment argument seems pretty weak...just like (almost) everyone else here, IANAL, but saying that anonymity is required for true freedom of speech seems a tenuous link at best. As long as you're protected from being censored or censured for your opinions, I fail to see how anonymity is a legitimate requirement for free speech. But, again, IANAL, and there could be loads of legal precedent for this of which I am unaware. Still, I would have thought this sort of thing would fall more under the Fourth Amendment...

    Anyhow, the upshot is, I'd appreciate someone pointing me to the background for this story so I can remove the "un"...

    --

    Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
    1. Re:An uninformed opinion by Seth+Finkelstein · · Score: 2
      For an explanation you may find helpful, take a look at:
      http://w3.trib.com/FACT/1st.lev.tatteredcoverrec.h tml
      When you buy a book, you don't expect to have a law enforcement agent searching through the store's records at some later date to see what books you have purchased. Such an action offends America's sense of privacy. It smacks of a police state.

      Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org)

    2. Re:An uninformed opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



      seth,

      could you kindly enable comments on your journal entries?

      I'm sure many slashdot users besides myself who have stumbled into the story of you & micheal's lovely story of hate would enjoy the oppertunity to discuss it in an ontopic place. Who knows, maybe michael would even drop in!

      </offtopic>

    3. Re:An uninformed opinion by s390 · · Score: 5, Informative

      ...I'd appreciate someone pointing me to the background for this story...

      OK, here's the story. The local police busted a meth lab and found how-to drug manuals in a trailer, along with receipts from the bookstore. But the receipts didn't name the purchaser of the books, so the local DA subpoenaed the bookstore's customer records. The bookstore fought the subpoena and won.

    4. Re:An uninformed opinion by zenyu · · Score: 1

      the First Amendment argument seems pretty weak...just like (almost) everyone else here, IANAL, but saying that anonymity is required for true freedom of speech seems a tenuous link at best.

      The First Amendment isn't just about speech. It's basically protecting your right to disagree with the majority so long as you don't physically maim anybody else. The things it names, freedom of association, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion are just the outward manifestations of thought, the kind of thing the government could monitor at the time. Unfortunately freedom of the body wasn't mentioned so violations of this right in the form of drug laws still happen. Still there is a history of interpreting the law as allowing your privacy to be protected when it comes to books. The libraries I've worked at don't keep your name attached to the book once it's been returned safely to avoid these types of lawsuits.

    5. Re:An uninformed opinion by Greyfox · · Score: 2

      The link provided at the top of the page gives you a list of court cases. Find the Tattered Cover one and click on the case number. You get a Word Doc (Abiword handles it fine) that gives you all the details of the case.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    6. Re:An uninformed opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For more information about the Tattered Cover case and the decision, see http://news.bookweb.org. They've been covering this case in-depth since the very beginning. Just do a search on Tattered Cover.

    7. Re:An uninformed opinion by Suppafly · · Score: 2

      You should read the court's opinion it gives a decent background and also explains why the first admendment argument is anything but weak.

      The upside of doing your homework is that you don't make embarassing statements like but saying that anonymity is required for true freedom of speech seems a tenuous link at best. As long as you're protected from being censored or censured for your opinions, I fail to see how anonymity is a legitimate requirement for free speech.

    8. Re:An uninformed opinion by sh00z · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, the receipt *did* name the purchaser ("Suspect A"), but not the titles of the books s/he bought. The police, who apparently did a pretty shoddy job of questioning the suspects they found at the scene, had no other means of linking Suspect A to the bedroom in which the books (available from Tattered Cover's catalogue) were found.

  14. Go Tattered Cover! by rgraham · · Score: 2

    As anyone in Denver and it's surrounding area's can tell you Tattered Cover is *the* place to go for great books and wonderful service so it's nice to see them not only survive the onslaught of cookie-cutter book "warehouses" but also unfounded legal assaults.

    1. Re:Go Tattered Cover! by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 1

      I like the Tattered Cover, and I'm a civil right supporting Libertarian, but it's not *the* place to go.

      Amazon has a bigger selection, better prices, no sales tax, free shipping, and a more enjoyable shopping experience. If I want a cool place to hang out drinking coffee while reading, I'll go to my own living room. The only advantage Tattered Cover has over Amazon is that the time from desire to fulfilment is 23 hours less. I sure would like to support them, but it just doesn't make any sense to shop there.

    2. Re:Go Tattered Cover! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only advantage Tattered Cover has over Amazon is that the time from desire to fulfilment is 23 hours less.

      ...and that you get to leaf through, feel, and smell the books ...and examine the typesetting, binding, texture ...and that they host many readings and discussions, and promote a literate community ...and circulate money through the local economy, providing jobs and paying taxes used for civic projects ..and when I bring a book to the register, no one runs up and says WOULDN'T YOU LIKE THIS BOOK TOO? BUY BOTH NOW! ...and some people actually like to leave their basement once in a while!

      PS I am a customer of Tattered Cover, Amazon, B&N, & small smelly bookshops everywhere.

    3. Re:Go Tattered Cover! by rgraham · · Score: 1

      Well let me clarify. For those of us who like to leave our homes, interact with people (offline) pickup and look through a book before buying it and support a local institution, The Tattered Cover is *the* place to shop for books in the Denver area.

  15. My god...someone give this man a medal! by Cutriss · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights, and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation--and their ideas from suppression--at the hand of an intolerant society," wrote Justice Bender.

    Mr. Bender, would you please run for Congress?

    --
    "Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
    1. Re:My god...someone give this man a medal! by realgone · · Score: 2

      Actually, that wasn't a quote from Justice Bender. He was exerpting from the Supreme Court opinion in the case of McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission. Still, it's a pretty encouraging sign that the quote made even a guest cameo in his decision.

    2. Re:My god...someone give this man a medal! by qslack · · Score: 1

      Mr. Bender, would you please run for Congress?

      No thanks. I've got enough work already. I was considering it, but the current office holders are pretty well established.

    3. Re:My god...someone give this man a medal! by ShoeHead · · Score: 1

      Anyone know of some books with this sort of theme? Or Political Philosophy books? This is the sort of thing I'd major in if I ever ran out of math/science I loved.

    4. Re:My god...someone give this man a medal! by maxpublic · · Score: 1

      Ever notice how the people who actually seem to understand the Constitution and are invested in the Bill of Rights never seem to be interested in public office?

      This makes me think that the 'jury duty' style of serving in Congress might actually be a good thing.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    5. Re:My god...someone give this man a medal! by runcible · · Score: 1

      Actually, I would disagree about the Congress thing. The best place for one well-informed person to make a difference is not in Congress making the laws -- or arguing against them -- but in the judiciary, shooting them down.

      --
      remember the wisdom of Mahatma Gandhi: If enough peasants die horribly, someone will probably notice
    6. Re:My god...someone give this man a medal! by blair1q · · Score: 2

      This goes both ways.

      Anonymity also protects criminals from prosecution for their crimes.

      The system has to decide who's merely unpopular and who's a criminal (spammer, harrasser, etc.) on a case-by-case basis.

      Which is what they just did. So who's surprised?

      --Blair

  16. Hm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Still you should pay cash for books (or anything else) if you really want your privacy. Tattered Cover may be all nice, but another bookstore would be within its rights to send you direct mail based on your purchases ... "You must be a gun nut! Here are some shooting catalogs!"

  17. 1st Amendment? Not 4th? by JustAnotherReader · · Score: 1
    1st amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    OK, I don't see how that has anything to do with refusing to release documents. However this:

    4th amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    . . . seems like it would apply. I could understand how the store's customer records would be considered "papers and effects".

    So I'm confused, how exactly does this relate to the 1st? Freedom of the press? That's usually considered to be the press's right to maintain secrecy of it's sources, not it's customer list.

  18. Tattered Cover by daviskw · · Score: 5, Informative

    For those of you not from Colorado. The Tattered Cover is a bookstore chain out here in Colorado that specializes in all sorts of books over all sorts of subjects. The two stores that I am aware of (there may be more) are at least three, maybe for fours. There are not a used book store and the can be said to be larger than any Barnes and Nobles that I know of.

    From a computer books perspective they are neither the best nor the worst but certainly they do carry them.

    --
    Beware the wood elf!!!
    1. Re:Tattered Cover by chorder · · Score: 1

      I really have nothing to say here, except that I frickin deekin love the Tattered Cover to death. I spent two years in Denver as a child, love the town, and just recently returned after 10 years for 8 hours on a roadtrip, spending 6 of those in the Tattered Cover. I'm so happy to see them being as cool in the legal world as they are in independent retail. If you have the means, I highly recommend the place.
      Congrats Tat'.

    2. Re:Tattered Cover by captredballs · · Score: 1

      No kidding. The Tattered Cover is easily one of the best bookstores in the US (Powell's in Portland, despite some labor issues, is also another great one). I haven't lived in Denver for several years, but TC is still the standard that I compare all other bookstores to.

      --

      I suppose I'm not too threatening, presently, but wait till I start Nautilus
    3. Re:Tattered Cover by feydakin · · Score: 1

      But wouldn't they be violating Amazon's patent :Delphion.Com: on affiliate programs then??

      --
      Death and poverty like me so much, they've brought friends!
    4. Re:Tattered Cover by Erbo · · Score: 2
      The TC's computer book selection is actually fairly good. Of course, if there's a computer book I need that I can't find there, I can always go to Softpro Books, which sells nothing but computer books (and Linux distros, and the like). They also have 2 stores in the Denver metro area, in Englewood and Boulder.

      But for overall selection, no bookstore beats TC, in my experience. (I'm still boycotting Amazon.com.) Plus I get the warm fuzzies of supporting an independent bookseller, and one which isn't afraid to stand up for its rights or the rights of its customers.

      Eric

      --
      Be who you are...and be it in style!
    5. Re:Tattered Cover by bughunter · · Score: 2
      I went to High School in Denver betewen 81 and 83, and lived within walking distance of the original Tattered Cover in the Cherry Creek shopping district. I chatted with the owner a lot, and she has a genuine love for books, the press, and freedom of expression. I was not suprised to find that she holds such similar regard for privacy rights to fight this search warrant with all her resources.

      I've lived in a lot of cities and never come across another general interest bookstore as complete as the Tattered Cover. Cheers and congratulations are due all around.

      --
      I can see the fnords!
  19. Legal cost comment by bstadil · · Score: 1

    I can only imagine what the Tattered cover's legal bill must be like.

    The losing party will ultimately have to cover most of the legal cost. If not awarded in the verdict they can file a separate lawsuit to recover cost. Even if the judge allocate the cost that portion can be appealed however they run the risk of other issues raised again (Crossspoints) by the other parties.

    --
    Help fight continental drift.
    1. Re:Legal cost comment by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Assuming you are right, the public loses either way. If the bookstore wins, the taxpayers have to pay for their own oppression, if the government wins, it's an obvious loss. Things like this remind me why I am a Libertarian.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  20. Screw the Tattered Cover by Mad+Man · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's time to close the "book store loophole," where criminals can purchase "how to" books that contain instructional information on committing illegal acts without any type of background check.

    Do it for the children.

    Every time I excercise my second amendment rights by purchasing a firearm, I am required to fill out a government form with all sorts of personal information. The seller is then required to get permission from the FBI and Colorado Bureau of Investigation to complete the transaction.

    The government has illegally been keeping these records. After being conditioned that this is "reasonable," -- often by first amendment extremists -- why should I give a flying rat's ass if it happens to other people?

    1. Re:Screw the Tattered Cover by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why should I give a flying rat's ass if it happens to other people?

      Because it's not all about you.

    2. Re:Screw the Tattered Cover by GreyPoopon · · Score: 1
      Every time I excercise my second amendment rights by purchasing a firearm, I am required to fill out a government form with all sorts of personal information. The seller is then required to get permission from the FBI and Colorado Bureau of Investigation to complete the transaction.

      Note that I agree with you, and I'm not certain about what I'm about to say, but.... If you are a convicted felon, don't you automatically give up the right to purchase a firearm, thus making the procedure necessary to make sure you aren't a felon? Granted, we all know they are doing far more than just checking your criminal record. And I'm sure that non-felons have been denied a purchase....

      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    3. Re:Screw the Tattered Cover by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 1

      Also close the loopholes for boxcutters, automobiles, beer, baseball bats, and other objects that can cause death and destruction.

    4. Re:Screw the Tattered Cover by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Second Amendment is a bit different - it does contain that 'well-regulated militia' clause. Figuring out what the heck that clause means is left as an exercise for the reader.

    5. Re:Screw the Tattered Cover by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What are you talking about?

      You've got Ashcroft fighting for the privacy of gun purchasers and their records while he strips privacy rights from everyone else in the country. He has far more power than the CO courts.

      You should give a flying rat's ass about this because anti-privacy agendas have a way of gaining momentum when they aren't stopped in their "innocuous" stages. A country with no right to by books in a private manner probably is not going to let you buy guns in a private manner. They are linked.

      I can't think of that many "first amendment extremists" that are pro-government surveillance on gun records. If you are referrring to the Republicrats, neither of them have a genuine interested in the first amendment. Both of them shun it when it is inconvenient.

    6. Re:Screw the Tattered Cover by yasth · · Score: 1
      Would not have really helped in this case now would it:
      Footnote:5 One of the books was wrapped. Additionally, subsequent analysis by police experts revealed that the two books had never been read, though the covers had been handled.
      --
      I'd do something interesting, but my server can't handle a slashdotting.
    7. Re:Screw the Tattered Cover by swillden · · Score: 2

      The Second Amendment is a bit different - it does contain that 'well-regulated militia' clause. Figuring out what the heck that clause means is left as an exercise for the reader.

      The original, intended meaning of the phrase is actually quite clear. The only real confusion comes from the term "regulated" which, when applied to a military force of that era, essentially meant "properly equipped" (there's quite a bit of history behind that, but it ultimately boils down to the fact that commanders of armies got paid by the number of men equipped as per regulations that they could muster [the phrase 'to pass muster' comes from the same bit of history, incidentally]). So, if we update that single word, the phrase reads:

      A well-equipped militia being necessary...

      Add to that a bit of understanding of the nature of the Revolutionary War, the amount of the fighting that was done by semi-organized groups of citizens known as militias, the fact that the American regulars were drawn largely from militias and brought their own weapons, and mix in an understanding of the skepticism of government held by many of the founders and the phrase is clear as can be:

      The citizens should have arms so that they can defend their free State, whether from external attack or from internal tyranny. It's the combination of the notion of the "power of the people" and another notion which Mao Tse-tung stated succinctly as "power comes from the barrel of a gun". Power comes from a gun and they wanted the people to have the power, ergo the people should have the guns.

      Deciding whether or not this interpretation has any relevance to today, when we have the most powerful military in the world to handle external threats and when armed insurrection would pit deer rifles against tanks, attack helicopters, supersonic fighter-bombers and infantry armed with automatic weapons, night vision and encrypted spread spectrum tactical radios is left as an exercise for the reader. Hint 1: Red Dawn is a movie, and a rather fanciful one. Hint 2: consider 10 million deer rifles against 1,000 tanks. Knuth might label this problem as [HM50] (maybe without the 'HM'? Dunno).

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    8. Re:Screw the Tattered Cover by FurryFeet · · Score: 1

      Man, oh, man, how I wish for a "+1 Troll" option right now.
      Really, some trolls are worth modding up. This is one of them :)

  21. En Banc by Davak · · Score: 2, Informative

    To save a little time... Quote below...

    Plaintiff-Appellant:

    TATTERED COVER, INC., d/b/a THE TATTERED COVER BOOKSTORE,
    v.
    Defendants-Appellees:

    THE CITY OF THORNTON; and THORNTON POLICE OFFICER RANDY GOIN, in his official capacity.


    JUDGMENT REVERSED AND CASE REMANDED
    EN BANC

    JUSTICE BENDER delivered the Opinion of the Court.
    JUSTICE COATS does not participate

  22. The prosecution is devious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In an attempt to drive up tattered covered's bills towards bankruptcy , the prosecution submitted this story to slashdot, with the fondest hopes of a severe slashdotting.
    "How will it feel when we turn the unwashed hordes upon your server door, muahahahaha"

  23. here's a start by martissimo · · Score: 1

    Rocky Mountain News has a pretty decent overview of how this all got started.

    1. Re:here's a start by ahde · · Score: 1

      from the rocky mountain news article linked above:

      "We didn't pay enough attention to the fact that our computer inventory systems were capturing information that could compromise our customers' privacy,"

      This from the head of an organization represting the big chain media outlets. They are saying that they didn't realize their extensive customer profiling databases could be used to ...well, profile their customers.

      You should all realize this isn't a battle of the big goverment versus a small bookstore. This is a battle between Bertlesmann AG and other mega-corporations that control over 90 percent of what is printed in America, versus a small town DA trying to prosecute someone with a meth lab.

  24. Link Describing the situation by steelrecluse · · Score: 1

    Sounds like this isn't a first ammendment issue at all IMHO. Rather, it sounds like the owners of the Tattered Cover are just trying to block a standard police investigation:

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/arti cl e/0,1299,DRMN_15_1061730,00.html

    Just because someone is claiming that a case is regarding defending First Amendment rights does not mean that it really is. In this case I would definately say that this has nothing to do with freedom of speech and the judge made a mistake in reversing the judgement.

    1. Re:Link Describing the situation by jjohnson · · Score: 1

      Okay. Why would you say it has nothing to do with the first amendment?

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    2. Re:Link Describing the situation by steelrecluse · · Score: 1

      Ok, a similar example focusing on the core of the issue here: retrieving information from a store due to a receipt found at the scene of a crime in order to match the receipt to the customer.

      Assume a murder has taken place and one of the pieces of evidence that was left is a numbered receipt (so it can be identified) to a local electronics store. Should the police be able to ask the store to provide the name of the person that matches the receipt?

      In truth this has nothing to do with speech, just common sense intentionally muddied by the book store.

    3. Re:Link Describing the situation by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      Yes, that is legitimate. But asking what books the defendant has bought recently, on the grounds that if any of said books involve criminal activity, the defendant must have been planning a similar crime, is stupid. And that's the case here.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    4. Re:Link Describing the situation by uspsguy · · Score: 1

      I didn't bother with the link, the News is my local paper delivered to my door every day. There is an addage that says, "The farther away from an event you are, the more credible the media reporting". The News is not very reliable. The PD wanted to fish around. There is a very real "chilling effect" of knowing the cops can muck around in all the records because of a receipt. More and more, I think I'll have to wean myself from internet purchases and buy locally for cash. What if I'm totally innocent but have the same tastes as some crook? Look at the number of overturned murder convictions recently if you think the "system" can't decide your guilty and put you away with the flimsiest of evidence.
      Bad Thornton, yea Tattered Cover

      --
      Profanity - The sign of a small mind trying to express itself.
  25. Re:En Banc -- The link by Davak · · Score: 1


    Oh... and the link...

    Link to Decision
    (It's a doc file)

  26. In plain English by bokeoa · · Score: 1

    The Denver Post has a good story about this here

  27. Kneejerk slashdot response by Binx+Bolling · · Score: 1

    Probable cause + Warrant = Perfectly legal

    Why shouldn't the cops have access to someone's book purchase records if there is probable cause that those records might yield useful information in an investigation? This is the way the law is supposed to work.

    bb

    1. Re:Kneejerk slashdot response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd agree if the warrant were directed at
      the suspected criminal.
      But it isn't.
      It's directed at a third party who is neither
      suspect nor accused of any wrongdoing.



      There's no explicit amendment to this effect, but
      just a cursory look through the Bill of Rights
      shows that an overarching principle pervades
      them: the right to be fucking left alone.


    2. Re: Kneejerk slashdot response by phliar · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Quoth Binx Bolling:
      Probable cause + Warrant = Perfectly legal
      I bought a copy of a book on how to make methamphetamines from this bookstore. In a raid on a meth lab, the cops found this book. In the trashcan outside, they found an envelope from the bookstore.

      Now the cops want the bookstore to give them a list of all people who bought the book. Where's probable cause? Why should the cops know anything about my reading habits?

      If we live in a climate where unpleasant books we buy bring us to the attention of the State, do we still have freedom of expression?

      The State no longer will need to ban books. Ashcroft merely says "We will be subpoena'ing all bookstore records for purchasers of Book X."

      As the article says, books are different from fertilizer.

      --
      Unlimited growth == Cancer.
  28. i am quite confused by vipw · · Score: 1

    What does a store not providing records have to do with the first amendment? Is there a news story about this anywhere?

    There is really no guarantee of anonymity in the first amendment that I can see. I would see this more related to the "unreasonable search and siesure" statutes because police may not have had compelling reason to request the documents.

    1. Re:i am quite confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Two words "chilling effect", or what good is the right to free speech (which implies the right to receive information) if you are too afraid to use it. As cited in the opninon:
      Once the government can demand of a publisher the names of the purchasers of his publications, the free press as we know it disappears. Then the spectre of a government agent will look over the shoulder of everyone who reads. . . . Fear of criticism goes with every person into the bookstall. The subtle, imponderable pressures of the orthodox lay hold. Some will fear to read what is unpopular, what the powers-that-be dislike. . . . [F]ear will take the place of freedom in the libraries, book stores, and homes of the land. Through the harassment of hearings, investigations, reports, and subpoenas government will hold a club over speech and over the press.

      345 U.S. 41, 57-58 (1953) (Douglas, J., concurring). The right
    2. Re:i am quite confused by AdrianG · · Score: 2

      Actually, its MUCH more complicated than that. This case really is about "unreasonable search and siesure", but the fact that it touches on the first amendment bring a higher standard for justifying the search into play. It touches on the first amendement basically because it appears that the governement seeks to strengthen its case based on the kind of information that a defendant sought to aquire through purchasing books. Any attempt by government to suggest guilt because someone chose to seek information about a controversial subject really does have a chilling effect on free speech.

      Note that this case is not about hiding someone's fraudulent use of a credit card in buying a book, or about proving that a suspect was at a bookstore at the time the purchase occurred. This is about the government suggesting that the suspect's choice of the book implies a stronger case for the suspect's guilt.

      The decision DID NOT say the search warrant must have been invalid. The decision was, for the most part, narrowly directed at the fact that the procedure that resulted in the warrant was "Ex Parte", or one sided.

      Ex Parte proceedings that result in search warrants are often justified on the theory that a suspect might destroy or arrange to destroy evidence if he is warned that there is a judicial proceeding planned during which he can argue against the issue of the warrant. In other words, the government has, in cases where the proposed warrant would be served on a suspect, a compelling interest in surprising the suspect with the warrant.

      In this case, the warrant, in question, would be served on an innocent third party, where there was no reason on record to suppose that this third party might attempt to destroy evidence if warned that the government sought to compel it to give up the evidence.

      The higher court found that the plantif (the book store) has a reasonable chance of winning their case, that the lower court wasn't quite applying the right test for suitability of warrant application, and that there was no justification for the ex parte nature of the proceeding that produced the warrant. The higher court set the lower court's decision aside and told it to try again. This is not the end of the case.

      Adrian

  29. Even that doesn't work... by Big+Sean+O · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My computer store always asks for my name and address, even when I buy with cash. I usually tell them "No thanks" but one woman kept at it, so I gave her the address for Wrigley Field, heh heh.

    Radio Shack was the original offender in this 'collecting your address to serve you better' BS, but it seems to be picking up steam as 'the thing to do'.

    So, pay cash, and remember "3600 N. Clark Street, Chicago Illinois, 60657".
    -----

    --
    My father is a blogger.
    1. Re:Even that doesn't work... by Mantorp · · Score: 1

      I can't imagine how many times I've given 90210 as my zip code.

    2. Re:Even that doesn't work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I prefor to use:


      1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW


      Washington, DC 20500


      Sort of a test of how stupid the clerk is if they don't recognize that address...

    3. Re:Even that doesn't work... by yack0 · · Score: 1

      Wrigley Field?

      Hrm, I thought twas 1060 West Addison? At least that's what they say in the Blues Brothers movie.

      j

      --
      -- There is no sig line, only Zuul.
    4. Re:Even that doesn't work... by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2

      I really want to know how much bogus mail gets delivered to 22B Baker Street, in every major metropolitan area. All of my friends use it, and I'm sure web spiders find it too.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    5. Re:Even that doesn't work... by coyote-san · · Score: 2

      I've gotten much less flexible in my advancing age. If they insist on that information, I tell them to forget it and walk away. Let them put the stuff back on the shelves, while the people behind me in line get a lesson that it is possible to say "no."

      This is a modest hassle, but far less than you would think.

      --
      For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
    6. Re:Even that doesn't work... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget the Name:

      G. Bush.

      G.W. if you want...

    7. Re:Even that doesn't work... by AgTiger · · Score: 1

      Actually, according to the United States Postal Service ZIP+4 Code Look-up, the standardized address for 3600 North Clarck Street is:

      3600 N CLARK ST
      CHICAGO IL 60613-3808


      According to the Chicago Cubs Ballpark page, (click on "Wrigley Field"), the address is:

      Wrigley Field
      1060 West Addison
      Chicago, IL 60613-4397

      If you look up the 3600 N CLARK address or the 1060 W ADDISON ST address at MapQuest you'll see both addresses are essentially correct.

      Both Big Sean O and The Blues Brothers were right after all. :-)

    8. Re:Even that doesn't work... by rlp · · Score: 2

      I really want to know how much bogus mail gets delivered to 22B Baker Street, in every major metropolitan area. All of my friends use it, and I'm sure web spiders find it too.

      In London, that would be the address of a branch of Abbey National Bank (though there is a brass plaque on the outside wall with an engraving depicting a fictional detective).

      --
      [Insert pithy quote here]
    9. Re:Even that doesn't work... by rmohr02 · · Score: 1

      I will.

      Also, when I get asked for my address, I make the clerk explain why them having my address "serves me better". I don't relent. This is especially fun with a long line behind me--the clerk will call his/her manager out, who, most of the time, will say that they require an address. I argue with him for awhile, then set my books down and leave.

      Maybe this "Wrigley Field" thing will give me something else to do in this situation. I'll pretend to relent in the end and give them that address.

      BTW, this happened at a local bookstore that shall only be known as B&Noble. No wait, that's too obvious--how about Barnes&N.

  30. Re:1st Amendment? Not 4th? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a bookstore, therefore, it must fall under free press.

  31. I just don't get it by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1
    What does freedom of speech have to do with not releasing information? If you truly believed in "freedom of speech" wouldn't you release information such as book buying records so that anyone could read them?

    Just another case of someone crying about "big brother" when the worst thing that could happen is that they know some guy buys hustler now and then. What an affront to privacy!

    On the other hand, this information could be used to prevent future crimes. What's the big deal?

    --
    (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    1. Re:I just don't get it by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Fine, email me everytime you make a purchase from now on.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:I just don't get it by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2
      Just another case of someone crying about "big brother" when the worst thing that could happen is that they know some guy buys hustler now and then. What an affront to privacy!
      You DO realize that use of pornography is generally listed as a 'profile indicator' of quite a few criminal archetypes. Others include the fact that arsonists, apparently, tend to wet the bed as children.
      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    3. Re:I just don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WHOA. How do you expect your book purchase records to prevent future crimes? By the content of the book? So, if you purchase a how-to book on making drugs, you should expect to hear from the government? This is EXACTLY what free speech is about. Our right to access information should be unhindered by someone watching what it is we read. If we want to read a how-to book on making illegal drugs, we should be allowed to, WITHOUT the police grilling us as to WHY we wanted this book. To police, it's not going to matter I wanted the book for a research paper or what-have-you, I'm going to be interrogated be met by disbelief, "You only wanted it for a research paper? Prove it."

      This is exactly, exactly what it's about. Our access to written information should NOT be monitored or given to the goverment. We should not be afraid to buy and read controversial or unpopular books. Even if I choose to buy the How-To Guide to Murdering Innocent Children and Feeding Them To Your Husband, nobody should be knocking at my door to arrest me for it.

      Preventing crimes, eh? You have another think coming. Just think long and hard next time before you go to buy a sci fi, fantasy, true-crime, mystery, romance, self-help (!!!), sex-help, how-to or nonfiction. Whatever is in those books could "incriminate" you based on their content for a thousand different crimes.

      You bought two self help books, one about bipolar and one about mutiple personality disorder. You also bought a true crime book. Could you be the lunatic who would "copycat" that crime? You are manic depressive, you know. And you could be another person right now, unable of controlling what you're doing.

      Or maybe you were just buying these books for your psychology major daughter and a birthday present for your best friend.

      Free speech and free access to speech fall under the same type of freedom and it's perfectly logical for this bookstore to fight the law on this one.

      >On the other hand, this information could be used to prevent future crimes. What's the big deal?

    4. Re:I just don't get it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "On the other hand, this information could be used to prevent future crimes. What's the big deal?"

      Of course CBDTPA could be used to prevent future crimes.

      Idiot!

      Remember, you are not guilty until you are convicted in court for each and every offense.

      You have the option not to release information. The Tattered Cover is protecting it's customer base by not giving in to ridiculous requests from law enforcement. And besides, whose to say the perp didn't purchase with cash.

      The smart thing to do would be to not be able to associate buyer with book.

  32. Why the first? by Xopl · · Score: 1

    Why would they refuse based on the first amendment? It was the cops trying to search, so shouldn't they be refusing based on the right-to-privacy / search-and-seisure amendments??

    Can somebody explain?

  33. Tattered Cover by HunterD · · Score: 2

    This is wonderful to see. Tattered Cover is easily the coolest bookstore I have ever had the pleasure to buy books at. The main store (Cherry Creek) is giagantic, sporting (among other things) very extinsive abounts of Sci-Fi, History, Maps (some historical), and computer books. At 4 stories, I don't know of another anywhere near it's size. The Downtown one is also very cool, right in one of the hottest parts of Denver (LoDo). Regularly, they have really high profile authors in, talking about their books or doing readings.

    All this from what was a tiny corner bookstore maybe 15 years ago.

    Between their just utter badassness, and this - I don't see myself buying books anywhere else for a long long time. oh, and note: they have an affiliate program - so if you value companie slike this, dump amazon, and add them.

    --
    - The unexamined life is not worth leading -
  34. Now to pick up my copy of Bioterrorism for dummies by Kasmiur · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Without fear of someone seeing my shopping habits.

    --
    -THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
  35. Anyone want to move by yasth · · Score: 1
    Thus, we ground the holding in this case in our Colorado Constitution.

    Perhaps a bit limited.
    --
    I'd do something interesting, but my server can't handle a slashdotting.
  36. Where to send them money by allism · · Score: 2, Informative

    First off, it's not a used bookstore...at least not the merchandise I have seen there (I have been to the LoDo store, but not Cherry Creek).

    Their legal fund (according to one of their clerks, anyway) is with:

    American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression
    139 Fulton St #302
    NY, NY 10038

    Or you can call them at 303-322-7727 or 303-436-1070. I'm not listing their toll-free number here cause it costs them money for people to call them on it :)

    You CAN order books directly from them online at www.tatteredcover.com. They have been very helpful in finding books for me that B&N, Boreders, and Amazon have said were out of print.

  37. Only thing higher than thier legal bill by Kasmiur · · Score: 1

    Is the bandwidth bill after they get /.'d

    --
    -THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
  38. Supreme Court by Artagel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I doubt the U.S. Supreme Court will take it.

    The Colorado Supreme Court restricted the ability of Colorado police to execute a search warrant.

    First, there is a doctrine that says if there is an independent state ground for the ruling, then there is not a basis for Supreme Court review. This doctrine has less applicability when a Constitutional right is being allegedly violated. However, nobody says that the Colorado police have a Constitutional right to the search -- if anything the ruling tends to support Constitutional rights.

    Second, Federalism doctrine, which the current U.S. Supreme Court favors, would tend to lead to the conclusion that the U.S. Supreme Court should let the Colorado Supreme Court rein in the Colorado police if it wants to.

    There will be other cases in the future, and the Supreme Court may well hear one. Just not this one.

    1. Re:Supreme Court by d5w · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I doubt the U.S. Supreme Court will take it.
      With all the usual IANAL qualifications, I'll give another reason in support of this statement: not only did the Colorado court rule on actions in Colorado, as the above comment says, but the court based its decision on the Colorado constitution. My understanding is that, while the Supreme Court sometimes corrects state courts on interpretations of the US constitution, it stays away from telling them what their own state constitutions mean.
    2. Re:Supreme Court by epcraig · · Score: 1

      Isn't this the same US Supreme Court that overrode the Florida Supreme Court's deliberation on Florida's election in 2000?

      --
      Ed Craig "Who cares what you think?" George W. Bush, 4th of July 2001
    3. Re:Supreme Court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My understanding is that, while the Supreme Court sometimes corrects state courts on interpretations of the US constitution, it stays away from telling them what their own state constitutions mean.

      ...unless there's an important election on the line...

    4. Re:Supreme Court by jjo · · Score: 2

      Yes it is. However, the US Presidential election is governed by the US Constitution. The Florida Supreme Court is the final arbiter as to the Florida constitution, but not the federal one.

    5. Re:Supreme Court by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yes it is. However, the US Presidential election is governed by the US Constitution. The Florida Supreme Court is the final arbiter as to the Florida constitution, but not the federal one.

      I think it goes to the point about Federalism, and the tendency of the Supreme Court not to interfere in State decisions as a matter of philosophy.

      Not to argue about whether it was right or wrong, but if you feel that the Equal Protection concerns were strong, valid, and in line with the justices' previous rulings, then you'd believe that the Supreme Court was acting in line with their Federalist philosophy. If you believe that the Equal Protection issues were weak and invented, you'd think that they'd thrown their philosophy out the window in order to interfere in a state's rights to self-determination.

      There were also questions about the Florida Supreme Court's right to interpret election laws. Under the Florida constitution, that's legitimate. An argument was made (but not upheld) that the Florida court doesn't have that right, and that the US Constitution somehow overrode their right to judicial review.

    6. Re:Supreme Court by Artagel · · Score: 1

      Thank you for making that clear, I wish I had expressed the Colorado Constitution part that clearly.

  39. From an article at the denver post by Laplace · · Score: 2

    The Colorado constitution "protect an individual's fundamental right to purchase books anonymously, free from governmental interference."

    So it isn't just a first amendment issue.

    --
    The middle mind speaks!
  40. Re:1st Amendment? Not 4th? by realgone · · Score: 3, Interesting
    So I'm confused, how exactly does this relate to the 1st? Freedom of the press?

    (IANAL but...) freedom of speech has traditionally been interpreted as protecting a dialog of ideas (as opposed to a monologue). In other words, not only are your rights to express an idea protected, but also your right to receive ideas lawfully expressed by others. (Otherwise, the government could simply say: "Freedom of speech? Sure, talk all you want. Just step into this soundproofed room first.") Freedom of expression without reasonable freedom of channels of expression is more or less useless.

    In this case, it seems the court found that, among other things, the warrant placed an undue burden on the bookstore in its role as a channel of constitutionally protected speech.
  41. HTML version of court opinion (above is MSWord) by Seth+Finkelstein · · Score: 3, Informative
    HTML version of the opinion (the link given in the posting leads to an MS Word)

    http://www.cobar.org/CFwebFiles/Content/dspOpinion . fm?OpinionID=560

    With this case, we recognize that both the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article II, Section 10 of the Colorado Constitution protect an individual's fundamental right to purchase books anonymously, free from governmental interference. Law enforcement officials implicate this right when they seek judicial approval of a search warrant authorizing seizure of customer purchase records from an innocent, third-party bookseller. This case requires us to decide what test should be applied to balance the constitutional rights of individuals and bookstores against the duty of law enforcement officials to investigate crime.

    Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org)

  42. A great decision by brickbat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    An excerpt from the opinion summary:

    . . . the law enforcement need for the book purchase record in this case was not sufficiently compelling to outweigh the harm that would likely follow from execution of the search warrant, in part because law enforcement officials sought the purchase record for reasons related to the contents of the books that the suspect may have purchased. (emphasis added)

    In other words, the police weren't interested in any criminal acts related to the purchase of these books, but rather if there was any content in the books which the prosecution could use to strengthen their case against the defendant.

    To draw an Internet analogy, this would be akin to the cops forcing an ISP to turn over their Web proxy logs, in order to determine if a suspected terrorist visited a site on bomb-making, instead of finding hard-copy instructions in the terrorist's apartment (which certainly could be used as circumstantial evidence).

    This decision makes a lot of sense. It would be one thing if the suspect had bought a dictionary, then used it to brain a little old lady during a mugging--then the police would have the right to obtain purchase records in order to prove the perp bought the murder weapon. But simply to say that "he bought The Anarchist's Cookbook, therefore he must be guilty"--that is a dangerous assumption, and clearly represents an attack on our rights to free expression.

    1. Re:A great decision by jratcliffe · · Score: 1

      But that's not really what happened. The police were trying to confirm that the defendant had ordered the books in question (two tomes on how to run a drug lab), which would give credence to the charge that s/he was actually running the drug lab they discovered. The cops wanted the records to discover whether the defendant had actually ordered the books.

    2. Re:A great decision by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      But buying a book, let alone reading a book, about running a drug lab is not a criminal act, and should have no bearing. Unless, possibly, said books were found open, and highlighted, on the table of said drug lab, surrounded with the equipment and chemicals required to make drugs.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    3. Re:A great decision by fishbowl · · Score: 2

      >Unless, possibly, said books were found open,
      >and highlighted, on the table of said drug lab,
      >surrounded with the equipment and chemicals
      >required to make drugs.

      Even then, it's hardly relevant!

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    4. Re:A great decision by markmoss · · Score: 2

      Unless, possibly, said books were found open, and highlighted, on the table of said drug lab... One book was still in it's wrapper and the police lab determined that neither had been read.

      OTOH, the books were found in the bedroom where methamphetamine had been manufactured. One reason the police wanted the records was to get additional evidence as to which of the four people living in the trailer house were sleeping in that bed.

      And on the gripping hand, the appellate court noted a number of curious gaps in the evidence, according to the records. There may have been more books in that room, but only two were seized -- and that choice was obviously content based. (The books were about synthesizing drugs.) The books and the laboratory glassware had been dusted for prints, but the court record did not show the results. The justices seem inclined to assume that the police hadn't put the results in the record for the subpoena case because they would have shown who was running the lab clearly enough to make the book purchase records unnecessary...

    5. Re:A great decision by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2
      One reason the police wanted the records was to get additional evidence as to which of the four people living in the trailer house were sleeping in that bed.
      Why would the police expect the person who bought the book to automagically be the person reading the book? Given what you're saying, it looks like the police were trying to set a precident, stacking everything in their favour.
      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  43. Why First Ammendment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because a government threat to collect the names and addresses of everybody who has been exposed to my "speech" would definately have a chilling effect on my ability to diseminate information, no?

  44. Ambiance, baby, ambiance. by PhilMills · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's Tattered Cover's big selling point with me (besides 4 floors of selection and a coffee bar). Big leather chairs everywhere to test-read your selections, floor-to ceiling wooden bookcases w/ step ladders all over, bookcases all the way up the stairwell... and a distinct shortage of clerks wandering the store asking you if they can help you every five minutes. Peace and quiet while shopping is a rare thing these days. If I can't find something, there's help desks readily available for me to ask.

    Man, I can lose hours in there.

    --
    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, will be quoted out of context on
    1. Re:Ambiance, baby, ambiance. by Anonymous+DWord · · Score: 2

      I can't remember the last time I went into a major bookstore that wasn't playing crappy music over the P.A. I don't know about you, but listening to Britney wail about her love life doesn't exactly make me want to buy books.

      --
      "If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
    2. Re:Ambiance, baby, ambiance. by airlie · · Score: 1

      I used to live in Colorado. We would drive down to Denver just to go to the Tattered Cover.

      I even saw Douglas Adams there once and got an autographed copy of Last Chance to See.

    3. Re:Ambiance, baby, ambiance. by afniv · · Score: 2

      Don't forget about their $20/plate gourmet restaurant. It's called "Fourth Story" BTW.

      --
      ~afniv
      "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
      Richard von Weizs
  45. Why bother to support your local bookstore? by melquiades · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One question:

    Can you imagine Barnes & Noble, Borders, or Amazon.com doing what the Tattered Cover has done?

    1. Re:Why bother to support your local bookstore? by zoftie · · Score: 1

      No they already have provided search adapters for federal systems, to and from there databases, so don't buy any book of questionable content online, or in large chain stores. While before it was laughable, now I would suggest you to make wearing a tin hat a regular habit.
      2c.
      =)

    2. Re:Why bother to support your local bookstore? by dfenstrate · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't be suprised if they did. They're in the same business, and have the same concerns- Moreover, they have far more vast resources to fight any such request, without help from the ACLU or any bookseller's association.

      --
      Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
    3. Re:Why bother to support your local bookstore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And their board of directors is all hard-core republicans who want to come down hard on terrorism no matter what the cost to our society. Especially with this case... i mean books about how to make drugs should be banned! Along with medicine too, everyone knows that you get ill beacuse you have done something bad and that god is punishing you.

  46. Re:1st Amendment? Not 4th? by ichimunki · · Score: 1

    Try reading the Court's statement-- they explain everything in excruciating detail. This sort of background reading can be very informative and legal documents are not that inscrutable.

    --
    I do not have a signature
  47. Where is HanzoSan? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We need some dim-witted, left-wing commentary about our rights being violated!

    1. Re:Where is HanzoSan? by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      Heh. I thought I was the only one that noticed his name coming up frequently...

  48. Re:1st Amendment? Not 4th? by GigsVT · · Score: 1

    It's called "a chilling effect" on free speech, and it's something courts have tried to avoid causing through their decisions. What would be the point of freedom of speech, if everyone was afraid to listen? This is a 1st amendment issue, the fourth amendment is pretty well taken care of, since they had a properly issued warrant.

    --
    I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  49. to paraphrase... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    from the rocky mountain news article:

    ... booksellers insist they aren't like hardware stores.

    They deal in thoughts, opinions, ideas, information -- all protected by the First Amendment, and they insist that means the police must have extraordinary reasons to look at customer records.

    "There is a higher standard when it's not a hardware store,".

    So, the real story here, is that this is a precedent setting case, and the point of this case is to decide in the eyes of the law as to whether a book store is different from a hardware store, or not. if a bookstore is found to be just like a hardware store, then any police department will be able to request the store's records in an investigation into illegal activity. if a bookstore is considered to be different (and that is what this announcement is about), then police investigators will not be able to request the store to release information about patrons.

  50. Advance Sheet Headnote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The start of the word file reads:


    No. 01SA205, Tattered Cover, Inc. v. City of Thornton: Freedom of speech -- First Amendment -- Colorado Constitution, Article II, Section 10 -- search warrants - booksellers -- customer book purchase records -- adversarial hearings


    This case involves an attempt by law enforcement officials to use a search warrant to gain access to the book-buying records of a suspected criminal. The petitioner, an innocent, third-party bookseller, asserts its own and its customers' First Amendment and Article II, Section 10 rights.


    The Supreme Court recognizes that both the United States and Colorado Constitutions protect the rights of the general public to purchase books anonymously, without governmental interference. As such, any law enforcement attempt to use a search warrant to discover which books that a customer has purchased from a bookstore implicates fundamental rights.


    The Supreme Court holds that the Colorado Constitution requires law enforcement officials to show a need for the specific customer purchase record sought that is sufficiently compelling to outweigh the harm likely caused to constitutional interests by execution of the search. The search warrant will issue only if this test, which is to be applied at a pre-seizure adversarial hearing, is met.


    Applying this balancing test, the Supreme Court concludes that the law enforcement need for the book purchase record in this case was not sufficiently compelling to outweigh the harm that would likely follow from execution of the search warrant, in part because law enforcement officials sought the purchase record for reasons related to the contents of the books that the suspect may have purchased.

  51. Satire people, Satire by The+Raven · · Score: 2

    I'm amused that people do not notice satire when they see it... this thing should be +3 Funny, not +2 Insightful. And all those serious replies... sigh.

    The fact that the writer does not even coherently stick to the same point from beginning of post to end should clue people in that it was meant as humor.

    --
    "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
    1. Re:Satire people, Satire by Permission+Denied · · Score: 1
      this thing should be +3 Funny, not +2 Insightful

      Actually, I got a great laugh out of the moderation. Much more so than the post itself. Imagine, some guy actually took this seriously...haven't any of you read A Modest Proposal!?

      The post is great because it's like the old-time usenet trolls. The clueful (you and me) can see what he's doing, and yet he receives responses, where people vent all sorts of vitriol. That is exactly what a successful troll is. I don't know if this guy meant this as a troll (or just regular satire), but if so, my hat is off to you, sir.

      Also, the moderator, either they hit the wrong option on accident, they were trolled by the post, or they saw what was going on and they legitimized his troll (a meta-troll). Any way, that was my big laugh for the day.

  52. Methamphetamines by gt384u · · Score: 1

    As a person doing research in organic chemistry, I'm sure that my book buying habits would be equally circumspect in the eyes of law enforcement. Sitting on my desk right now? PIKHAL: A Chemical Love Story , a wonderful work of fiction by a researcher interested in the pharmacological properties of phenylethylamines. It just so happens that the second portion of the book reads like a recipe book for something like 180 compounds and includes dosage and effect information. Best part? The second half is freely available online. So essentially, the knowledge is out there and the Denver police should not have concerned themselves with where the recipe came from, but the fact that they were making them.

  53. Subpoena, not search warrant! by Spazmania · · Score: 5, Informative

    When I first read this, I thought: "That's very strange. Why shouldn't the police be able to get the book buying records of a legitimate criminal suspect? They can get phone company records and credit card records, right?"

    Pages 9 and 10 of the ruling make it clear:

    ---

    [Officer Goin] and DI McFarland then served the Tattered Cover with a DEA administrative subpoena. [...] Using such a subpoena was ordinarily a successful technique for DEA officers, though such a subpoena lacks any legal force or effect.

    [...]

    INSTEAD OF ATTEMPTING TO OBTAIN AN ENFORCEABLE SUBPOENA, Officer Goin approached prosecutors from the Adams County District Attorney's office to get a search warrant for the Tattered Cover. Several prosecutors at the Adams County DA's office refused to sign off on the warrant, voicing concerns about its scope and subject matter. [...]

    Without informing the Adams County DA's office, Officer Goin sought approval for his search warrant from the Denver DA's office. As approved by a Denver DA, the warrant authorized a search of the Tattered Cover for information related to the transaction in question, and for records of any other transaction involving Suspect A during the thirty-day period before the police searched the trailer. A Denver county court judge then approved the warrant.

    ---

    So, basically the Officer was a dope who tried to do an end-run around the law. Oops!

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    1. Re:Subpoena, not search warrant! by broken_bones · · Score: 1

      Spazmania is correct in his assessment of the situation. However, it should be noted that the ruling did not preclude a search warrant ever covering the material in question. Rather the court sought to set a standard for when such a search warrant would be valid. My reading of the case (IANAL or a Law Student) indicates that the to receive a valid warrant for these types of materials the police would have to show that the value of obtaining the evedence outweighs the possible chilling effects on free speach and that the information sought cannot be obtained by other legal means. The court found that the warrant issued in this case failed both portions of the test. Since a working meth lab was found the court decided that identifying the purchaser of the books in question (which analysis indicated had never been opened - see the Court's conclusion) did not outweigh the chilling effects on free speach. The city primarily wanted to know if one of the involved parties had purchases the books to link them to the meth lab. The court conlcluded that since all other forensic options had not been exhausted the city failed to show that the suspect in question could not be connected to lab without the purchase records from the Tattered Cover.

      --

      Never disturb your enemy while he is busy making a mistake.
    2. Re:Subpoena, not search warrant! by Ian+Bicking · · Score: 2
      So, basically the Officer was a dope who tried to do an end-run around the law. Oops!
      Or perhaps he was a hardened street cop who played by his own rules.
    3. Re:Subpoena, not search warrant! by Happy+go+Lucky · · Score: 2, Informative
      So, basically the Officer was a dope who tried to do an end-run around the law. Oops!

      Or perhaps he was a hardened street cop who played by his own rules.

      I've got another idea.

      A lot of DA's offices here in Colorado will not help an officer get a warrant when the premises to be searched are outside of that judicial district. Our own, for instance, will often look at our affidavits and say "Nice warrant, but it's not in XXX county. Go speak to their DA's office instead."

      When a cop goes to a different DA, that's not an end run. An end run around the law would typically involve either perjury or not bothering to get a warrant at all before seizing. To search premises in the City and County of Denver, speak to a Denver DA and a Denver judge. It seems like common sense to me. However, I'm a cop, which means I know less about policing than the average slashdotter.

    4. Re:Subpoena, not search warrant! by Ian+Bicking · · Score: 2
      I don't buy it. I think he was fighting his own inner demons, driven by a passion that didn't leave room for messy regulations and protocol. He doesn't respect authority, but he does respect justice, which he deals out first-hand every day. He's a loose cannon, but he always finds the right man... at least until the courts get involved, and the all-too-common liberal DA's.

      He's probably been suspended so many times his chief has lost count years ago, but when your backed into a corner and the bad guys are closing in, there's no one you'd more want to have on your side.

      At least, that seems the most likely explanation to me. Unless he has a paper-shuffling side kick, who looks like a bore and is always telling him to shape up, but when regulations get in the way he gets in the way of the regulators. He can run circles around the chief and the mayor, but he got to confident... this time it seemed too easy, but those damn liberal book-store owners fouled it up. Next time he'll just have to break out the lock picks, papers be damned.

    5. Re:Subpoena, not search warrant! by maxpublic · · Score: 1

      But no doubt you're an expert on donuts, and using your nightstick on innocent citizens.

      Of course, when I worked with the police it was commonly assumed that no citizen was innocent, so the night stick thing is probably just karma for some crime that went unpunished....

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    6. Re:Subpoena, not search warrant! by Spazmania · · Score: 1

      When a cop goes to a different DA, that's not an end run. An end run around the law would typically involve either perjury or not bothering to get a warrant at all before seizing.

      The end-run I was refering to was seeking a search warrant against what was stipulated to be an "innocent third party" rather than seeking an enforceable subpoena.

      If you read between the lines, it looks like the officer and agent were attempting to punish Tattered Cover for not heeding the unenforceable administrative subpoena. Snub your nose at us and will rip your place apart and scare away your customers.

      We don't live in a Wyatt Earp society; this behavior was inappropriate.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    7. Re:Subpoena, not search warrant! by pkesel · · Score: 1

      I can see why the search warrant was not allowed. At best it would provide circumstancial evidence. How can the purchase of a book imply anything other than book ownership? You'd have to prove that the owner could read, and then that he had opportunity, and then that he did, and then that he had the capacity to use the information in the book. And then you'd have to prove, still the heart of the matter, that he used the information to commit a crime.

      --
      - Sig this!
  54. a former employee by ignis · · Score: 1

    as a former employee of the tattered cover i think this is a huge victory for the first amendment. i hope that this will help to set a precidence that will carry over into other areas as well.

    reading a book is not a crime.
    hacking should not be a crime.

  55. Why would they withhold the purchase info? by Lord+Kestrel · · Score: 1

    If they have a valid search warrant, why not give them the data? If someone who is a suspect for a crime has been buying books on how to perpetrate that crime, then why not turn over the records?

    1. Re:Why would they withhold the purchase info? by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      Because I think freedom of speech and freedom of the press is supposed to extend to the listener as well; if one cannot be persecuted for saying or printing a given thing, then people who listen to/read the same thing shouldn't face any sort of persecution. Otherwise, Senator McCarthy would probably be VERY interested to know why you're reading Mao Tse Tung's Little Red Book..what's that, political science major? Sure, I'll bet you're even going to graduate COMMIE cum laude.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    2. Re:Why would they withhold the purchase info? by TheAwfulTruth · · Score: 2

      Except that as an absolute (as you and most everyone else here put it) it's completely untrue. You ARE responsible for what your say or write and for what you read. (Re: Child porn) It's not at all black and white and yet those are the only 2 colors ever presented here :(

      --
      Contrary to popular belief, coding is not all free blow-jobs and beer. Those things cost MONEY!
  56. Re:With a warrant? What's the beef? by Le+Marteau · · Score: 1

    And if someone had a warrant to bend you over and make you their bitch, would you comply, then argue the legality later?

    --
    Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
  57. LEAKED: The suspected criminal's purchases by joebp · · Score: 1
    • The Practical Dog Listener: The 30-Day Path to a Lifelong Understanding of Your Dog
      Jan Fennell
    • Ten Minute Tums & Bums
      Gloria Thomas
    • The Colorado Guide (5th Edition)
      Bruce Caughey and Dean Winstanley
  58. free speech and anonymity by SethJohnson · · Score: 3, Insightful


    The question you appear to be asking here is whether or not free speech covers anonymous speech. This is still an issue that is being debated in the state courts. The KKK has been semi-succesful in overturning some state courts on this matter because they (along with ACLU backing) claim they should be able to march in rallies with their hoods hiding their identities.

    The Tattered Cover is trying to defend its right to sell (publish) books to anonymous readers. The thought here is that if book purchasers were aware that their reading habits were under scrutiny by the govt., then they would be less likely to purchase books containing unpopular opinions. This infringes on the Tattered Cover's ability to speak (sell books containing) unpopular opinions.

    Perhaps a more immediate example is your ability to post to slashdot as your own login or an Anonymous Coward. Wouldn't you feel like your 1st Amendment rights were being revoked if there wasn't that 'Post Anonymously' checkbox available? Obviously there are means to backtrack IP addresses, etc. in cases where a poster has threatened the life of the pres., etc. but those mechanisms wouldn't be used to suppress unpopular speech.
  59. Text of Judgement (Part 1 of 5) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I. INTRODUCTION
    With this case, we recognize that both the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article II, Section 10 of the Colorado Constitution protect an individual's fundamental right to purchase books anonymously, free from governmental interference. Law enforcement officials implicate this right when they seek judicial approval of a search warrant authorizing seizure of customer purchase records from an innocent, third-party bookseller. This case requires us to decide what test should be applied to balance the constitutional rights of individuals and bookstores against the duty of law enforcement officials to investigate crime.
    We hold that the Colorado Constitution requires that the innocent bookseller be afforded an opportunity for an adversarial hearing prior to execution of a search warrant seeking customer purchase records. At that hearing, the court must apply a balancing test to determine whether the law enforcement need for the search warrant outweighs the harm to constitutional interests caused by its execution. In order for law enforcement officials to prevail, they must demonstrate a compelling governmental need for the specific customer purchase records that they seek. When conducting the balancing test, the court may consider whether there are reasonable alternative methods of meeting the government's asserted need, whether the search warrant is unduly broad, and whether law enforcement officials seek the purchase records for reasons related to the content of the books bought by any particular customer.
    Applying this balancing test, we hold that the search warrant in this case is not enforceable and should not have issued. The plaintiff, Tattered Cover, Inc., is an independent bookstore. The defendants are the City of Thornton and one of the city's police officers ("the City").
    The City argues that the information sought is necessary: (1) to prove that the operator of an illicit drug lab acted with the level of intent necessary to secure a conviction under state statute; (2) to prove the identity of the perpetrator; and (3) to "connect" a suspect to the lab. We consider the City's arguments within the factual context of this case. The City currently has significant evidence as to who committed the crime, as well as reasonable additional means, other than serving the Tattered Cover with a search warrant, of discovering additional proof as to the identity of the perpetrator. The execution of the City's search warrant could substantially chill the exercise of fundamental state constitutional rights, primarily because at least one of the reasons why the City seeks the suspect's customer purchase record is related to the contents of the books that he may have purchased.
    Thus, we conclude that the City has failed to demonstrate that its need for the Tattered Cover's customer purchase record is sufficiently compelling to outweigh the harm that would be caused to constitutional interests if the search warrant were executed. Therefore, we reverse the decision of the trial court.

  60. This is what bugs me the most... by ONU+CS+Geek · · Score: 2
    From the Court Document (emphasis mine:)

    Officer Goin searched the Tattered Cover's webpage and discovered that it offered both books for sale. He and DI McFarland then served the Tattered Cover with a DEA administrative subpoena. This subpoena demanded the title of the books corresponding to the order and invoice numbers of the mailer, as well as information about all other book orders ever placed by Suspect A. Using such a subpoena was ordinarily a successful technique for DEA officers, though such a subpoena lacks any legal force or effect.

    So, the DEA can make up any 'subponea' that they want to, and as long as no one questions it, they can do what they damn well please? This just doesn't seem right. Lawywers? Anyone?

    --

    I disable sigs...do you?
    1. Re:This is what bugs me the most... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, no kidding, that's exactly right. The cops count on citizens not standing up for their rights. Lesson: Just say no to the police. Say no to being searched, say no to commands you don't want to follow. If there is a legitimate reason, they will be able to get a warrant.

  61. Text of Judgement (2 of 5) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    II. FACTS AND PROCEEDINGS BELOW
    The following facts, most of which are undisputed, are gleaned from the record of the hearing below. As part of an ongoing drug investigation, the Thornton police and an agent of the federal Drug Enforcement Administration ("DEA"), Diversion Investigator Timothy McFarland ("DI McFarland"), were cooperatively monitoring a trailer home in Thornton in March of 2000. These law enforcement officials suspected that a methamphetamine lab was being operated out of the trailer. Officer Randy Goin was the lead investigator on the case.
    The police believed that Suspects A, B, C, and D probably lived in the trailer. Suspects A and C (both males) were registered with the trailer park's management as residents. The
    officers guessed, based on their surveillance, that Suspect A and Suspect B were involved in an intimate relationship. Suspect D received mail at the trailer home.
    On March 13, 2000, DI McFarland searched through some garbage from the trailer home. In doing so, he found evidence of drug operations. Additionally, he discovered a mailing envelope from the Tattered Cover addressed to Suspect A. The label on the mailer listed the invoice number, order number, and customer phone number corresponding to whatever books had been shipped in the envelope. There was no clue, however, as to the titles of the particular books that the mailer had contained.
    The following day, based upon a variety of evidence discovered during the course of the investigation, Officer Goin obtained a search warrant for the trailer home. With the assistance of the Adams County SWAT team, Officer Goin and DI McFarland executed this search warrant.
    In the trailer's master bedroom, the police found a methamphetamine laboratory and a small quantity of the manufactured drug. Because of the location of the lab, the question of which suspect or suspects resided in the master bedroom became the focus of the police's investigation.
    The officers believed that Suspects A and B occupied the master bedroom, but were unable to make a conclusive determination on this question. Relevant to this issue, the police noted the presence, in the master bedroom, of male and female clothes; Suspect A's personal address book; other papers bearing the names of Suspects A, B, and C; mail and bills belonging to various additional people; some firearms; printed instructions on how to manufacture a firearm silencer; and two books.
    The only objects from the room that were tested for fingerprints were the glassware from the methamphetamine lab and the two books. The record made at the time of the hearing, nine months after the search was executed, does not reflect whether the police ever attempted to match the fingerprints found on the glassware to any of the suspects. No usable prints were recovered from the two books.
    When the police executed the search warrant, they found two people in the trailer home. Neither of these two people, referred to here as Person E (a male) and Person F (a female),
    resided in the home, though Person E had keys to a shed on the property. The parties debate the extent to which the police questioned Persons E and F. Person E, a transient, indicated that he did not know anything about the lab and that he just left some property at the trailer. Person F said that she had just stopped by to see her boyfriend and could not provide any information. The police apparently did not specifically ask either Person E or Person F who resided in the master bedroom of the trailer.
    After the search, Officer Goin believed that he had probable cause to arrest Suspect A. However, he wanted to accumulate more evidence of Suspect A's guilt before making the arrest.
    The two books seized from the master bedroom were entitled Advanced Techniques of Clandestine Psychedelic and Amphetamine Manufacture, by Uncle Fester, and The Construction and Operation of Clandestine Drug Laboratories, by Jack B. Nimble. Officer Goin noticed that the books appeared to be new. DI McFarland thought that there might be a connection between the Tattered Cover mailer found in the trash and these two new books. Officer Goin then noticed that the new books appeared to fit the dimensions of the mailer.
    Officer Goin searched the Tattered Cover's webpage and discovered that it offered both books for sale. He and DI McFarland then served the Tattered Cover with a DEA administrative subpoena. This subpoena demanded the title of the books corresponding to the order and invoice numbers of the mailer, as well as information about all other book orders ever placed by Suspect A. Using such a subpoena was ordinarily a successful technique for DEA officers, though such a subpoena lacks any legal force or effect.
    Joyce Meskis, the owner of the Tattered Cover, instructed her attorney to tell the police that the bookstore would not comply with the subpoena, based on its concerns for its customers' privacy and First Amendment rights.
    Instead of attempting to obtain an enforceable subpoena, Officer Goin approached prosecutors from the Adams County District Attorney's office to get a search warrant for the Tattered Cover. Several prosecutors at the Adams County DA's office refused to sign off on the warrant, voicing concerns about its scope and subject matter. Finally, a chief deputy at the Adams County DA's office told Officer Goin that he would contact the Tattered Cover's attorney and that, while he made attempts to negotiate for the Tattered Cover's voluntary release of the information, Officer Goin should interview the suspects in order to see if they could provide any information.
    Without informing the Adams County DA's office, Officer Goin sought approval for his search warrant from the Denver DA's office. As approved by a Denver DA, the warrant authorized a search of the Tattered Cover for information related to the transaction in question, and for records of any other transaction involving Suspect A during the thirty-day period before the police searched the trailer. A Denver county court
    judge then approved the warrant.
    On April 5, 2000, Officer Goin, along with five other police officers, attempted to execute the search warrant on the Tattered Cover. Meskis immediately contacted the bookstore's attorney, who in turn contacted the Denver DA's office. A Denver DA persuaded the police officers not to execute the warrant until the Tattered Cover could litigate its validity.
    The Tattered Cover brought suit, seeking to restrain the Thornton Police and Officer Goin from executing the search warrant. The trial court held a hearing on the question of the search warrant's validity.
    At that hearing, the Tattered Cover presented unrefuted testimony that the execution of the search warrant in this case would have a substantial chilling effect on the willingness of its customers to purchase controversial books. Meskis stated that she had received an "enormous amount of feedback" from customers about this case, including over one hundred letters from customers in support of the Tattered Cover's position. Many customers told Meskis that they shopped at the Tattered Cover because of the Tattered Cover's policy of not disclosing customer book purchase records. Meskis further testified that if book purchase records were made available to investigative authorities, customers would not feel at ease perusing, buying, or reading a wide variety of books. Meskis pointed out that "people who read books are very concerned about First Amendment issues, and their privacy as it relates to First Amendment issues. This is not an uninformed society, they care."
    There was also other testimony at the hearing about the warrant's likely effect. An official from the American Library Association testified about the chilling effect that results from disclosure of library circulation records. A bookstore owner from the State of Washington also testified about the concerns expressed by his customers about their privacy rights while a case analogous to this one, In re Grand Jury Subpoena to Kramerbooks & Afterwords Inc., 26 Med. L. Rptr. 1599 (D.D.C. 1998), discussed in detail below, was pending.
    The trial court granted a restraining order with respect to the request for Suspect A's thirty-day purchasing history, but allowed the police to discover the information related to the mailing envelope found in the suspects' trash. This order was stayed, pending appeal.
    In reaching its decision, the trial court announced a four-part test intended to balance the rights and interests of the Thornton Police Department, on the one hand, and the Tattered Cover and its customers, on the other. Specifically, the trial court considered: (1) whether there was a legitimate and significant government interest in acquiring the information; (2) whether there was a strong nexus between the matter being investigated and the material being sought; (3) whether the information was available from another source; and (4) whether the intrusion was limited in scope so as to prevent exposure of other constitutionally protected matters.
    The plaintiff sought review of the trial court's decision, arguing that it should not be required to disclose any information regarding customer purchase records. The defendants have accepted the trial court's judgement that the portion of the search warrant that contained the general demand for all of Suspect A's purchasing records during the thirty-day period prior to the search is unenforceable, and do not seek review of that issue.
    We accepted jurisdiction over this case pursuant to section 13-4-110(1)(a), 5 C.R.S. (2001). We reverse the trial court's order with respect to the police request for information related to the books mailed in the envelope found in the suspects' garbage.

  62. and DMCA again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting reading,
    specifically this quoute from Colorado Constitution:
    "Like the Federal Constitution, our Colorado Constitution protects speech rights. Specifically, Article II, Section 10, entitled "Freedom of speech and press," provides that:
    No law shall be passed impairing the freedom of speech; every person shall be free to speak, write or publish whatever he will on any subject, being responsible for all abuse of that liberty . . . ."

    It seems that Colorado Constitution prohibits DMCA

    1. Re:and DMCA again by enjo13 · · Score: 1

      The obvious question here...

      Does federal law not have supremacy over the laws of a state (even constintutional)? I know that the federal constitution most definitely supercedes all other laws, but what about 'run of the mill' federal laws?

      --
      Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
  63. use your dollars wisely... by simpl3x · · Score: 1

    great bookstore! last time i was in denver, i loaded my suitcase with books. next time, i'll do so even more. there aren't enough good bookstores, let alone businesses who will fight for their principles (or any principles for that matter). enjoy those nike's :(

  64. Perhaps A Book Can be More Dangerous than a Gun... by TheLibra · · Score: 1

    Also close the loopholes for boxcutters, automobiles, beer, baseball bats, and other objects that can cause death and destruction.

    Okay, both of you raise very good points (assuming that Anne_Nonymous was being sarcastic. I believe what it comes down to is the amount of dangerous use an item is designed for.

    For instance, a plastic spoon could in theory be used as a weapon of mass destruction and genocide... but it's design, intent, and 99.99% most common use is for eating. A gun, however, is designed to throw a bit of metal (or porcelain, etc) at a very high velocity towards a target. For the responsible gun users, this means target practice, competitions, or hunting, and the very rare instance of absolute self-defense. But ultimately, the point of a gun (and target practice/shooting competitions) is to kill or learn to kill, while the point of a box-cutter is to open boxes, an automobile is designed for transportation, and a plastic spoon is designed for eating.

    Okay, it seems silly to point all that out... because it's all fairly bluntly obvious, right? Right. Well... that's where books get tricky... Books are either knowledge or entertainment, or both. If it's knowledge, the purpose of the book is to inform...to teach... Still with me? Yes, it's still fairly obvious... I'm getting to the point.

    Now take a book that teaches you how to make explosives out of common household materials. How to murder. Take your pick of crimes. I'm not talking about Fight Club, whose purpose was entertainment and philosophy, but rather a step-by-step manual that tells you exactly how you could get away with murdering your entire neighborhood and get away with it.

    The knowledge gleaned from books like that can be deadlier than any pistol or shotgun will ever be. Now before the flames happen, please understand I am neither condemning these books, the good use they can be put towards, or the First or Fourth Amendment.

    What I am saying is, that if we are going to accept that we have a wait and background check on gun purchases, then a "red-flags" list of very certain books is understandable in my eyes. Not all, or even most books. But specifically, manuals whose purpose is to teach you how to make weapons of mass destruction. And before it gets mentioned, I am not even talking about Martial Arts manuals, or books on Chemistry... I am talking about a book where the knowledge contained within is an effective manual on creating mass destruction.

    Which is more dangerous? A madman with a gun, or a madman with the sudden knowledge of how to destroy a skyscraper easily.

    Am I exagerating? I refer you to September 11th, where several madmen, trained from manuals on mass destruction, took out two skyscrapers and pegged the Pentagon.

    Am I ignoring the "fact" that "anyone could figure out how to make the stuff"? I refer you to Harris and Klebold from Columbine High School, who prepared for months, and "knew" how to make a propane bomb that would have killed hundreds of students had it worked properly. Had they the proper knowledge, their intended plan was to continue on after blowing up the high school, and then hijack a jet, and crash it into a building in New York City.

    What was the key difference between these two parties? One had the right training, the right manuals, the right knowledge. The others did not.

    Now, I ask you to reconsider the prospect of "red-flags" on certain books.

    The Libra
    "...but the stars we could reach, were just starfish on the beach..." -Seasons in the Sun

  65. Does anyone remember Judge Bork? by Electrawn · · Score: 1


    The Video Privacy Protection Act was passed because some naughty people in congress looked up Supreme Court nominee Robert Bork's video tape records. I guess we need a similar act for books now.

    Oh yah....A link to the whole story.

  66. Text of Judgement (3 of 5) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    III. ANALYSIS
    The Tattered Cover asserts its own constitutional rights, as well as the rights of the book-buying public, through this lawsuit. Hence, we must consider not only the effect that our decision has on the expressive rights of the actual party to this case, the Tattered Cover, but to members of the general public as well. Bursey v. United States, 466 F.2d 1059, 1083 (9th Cir. 1972) ("The First Amendment interests in this case are not confined to the personal rights of Bursey and Presley. Although their rights do not rest lightly in the balance, far weightier than they are the public interests in First Amendment freedoms that stand or fall with the rights that these witnesses advance for themselves.").
    We begin our analysis by delineating the right implicated by the City's actions in this case. Specifically, we explain how the First Amendment and Article II, Section 10 of the Colorado Constitution safeguard the right of the public to buy and read books anonymously, free from governmental intrusion. After recognizing this fundamental constitutional right, we consider and resolve the tension between it and the needs of law
    enforcement officials who investigate crime. Next, we address a troubling procedural issue: the need for a pre-seizure adversarial hearing when law enforcement officials seek to use a search warrant to obtain customer book purchase records from an innocent, third-party bookstore. Finally, we apply the test that we adopt.
    A. The Right to Purchase and Read Books Without Fear of Government Disclosure or Reprisal

    The First Amendment to the United States Constitution protects more than simply the right to speak freely. It is well established that it safeguards a wide spectrum of activities, including the right to distribute and sell expressive materials, the right to associate with others, and, most importantly to this case, the right to receive information and ideas. These various rights, though not explicitly articulated in either the Federal or Colorado Constitution, are necessary to the successful and uninhibited exercise of the specifically enumerated right to "freedom of speech."
    Without the right to receive information and ideas, the protection of speech under the United States and Colorado Constitutions would be meaningless. It makes no difference that one can voice whatever view one wishes to express if others are not free to listen to these thoughts. The converse also holds true. Everyone must be permitted to discover and consider the full range of expression and

    ideas available in our "marketplace of ideas." As Justice Brandeis so eloquently stated, "[Our founders] believed that freedom to think as you will and to speak as you think are means indispensable to the discovery and spread of political truth." Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357, 375 (1927) (Brandeis, J., concurring).
    The Supreme Court has recently reiterated the crucial role that the free exchange of ideas plays in our society, stating, "The citizen is entitled to seek out or reject certain ideas or influences without Government interference or control." United States v. Playboy Entm't Group, Inc., 529 U.S. 803, 817 (2000).
    Bookstores are places where a citizen can explore ideas, receive information, and discover myriad perspectives on every topic imaginable. When a person buys a book at a bookstore, he engages in activity protected by the First Amendment because he is exercising his right to read and receive ideas and information. Any governmental action that interferes with the willingness of customers to purchase books, or booksellers to sell books, thus implicates First Amendment concerns.
    Anonymity is often essential to the successful and uninhibited exercise of First Amendment rights, precisely because of the chilling effects that can result from disclosure of identity. The Supreme Court has recognized this principle numerous times in various contexts. For instance, in McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission, the Court stated, "Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights, and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation -- and their ideas from suppression -- at the hand of an intolerant society." 514 U.S. 334, 357 (1995) (citation omitted). In another case, Lamont v. Postmaster General, 381 U.S. 301, 307 (1965), the Court struck down a federal statute that required citizens who wished to receive "communist political propaganda" to affirmatively so notify the post office. The Court's holding rested on concerns that First Amendment speech rights would be chilled if people were required to reveal their identities before being able to receive these expressive materials. Id.
    The need to protect anonymity in the context of the First Amendment has particular applicability to book-buying activity. As was explained in United States v. Rumely, governmental inquiry and intrusion into the reading choices of bookstore customers will almost certainly chill their constitutionally protected rights:
    Once the government can demand of a publisher the names of the purchasers of his publications, the free press as we know it disappears. Then the spectre of a government agent will look over the shoulder of everyone who reads. . . . Fear of criticism goes with every person into the bookstall. The subtle, imponderable pressures of the orthodox lay hold. Some will fear to read what is unpopular, what the powers-that-be dislike. . . . [F]ear will take the place of freedom in the libraries, book stores, and homes of the land. Through the harassment of hearings, investigations, reports, and subpoenas government will hold a club over speech and over the press.

    345 U.S. 41, 57-58 (1953) (Douglas, J., concurring). The right to engage in expressive activities anonymously, without government intrusion or observation, is critical to the protection of the First Amendment rights of book buyers and sellers, precisely because of the chilling effects of such disclosures. Search warrants directed to bookstores, demanding information about the reading history of customers, intrude upon the First Amendment rights of customers and bookstores because compelled disclosure of book-buying records threatens to destroy the anonymity upon which many customers depend.
    In sum, the First Amendment embraces the individual's right to purchase and read whatever books she wishes to, without fear that the government will take steps to discover which books she buys, reads, or intends to read. A governmental search warrant directed to a bookstore that authorizes seizure of records that reflect a customer's purchases necessarily intrudes into areas protected by this right.
    B. Article 2, Section 10 of the Colorado Constitution
    Like the Federal Constitution, our Colorado Constitution protects speech rights. Specifically, Article II, Section 10, entitled "Freedom of speech and press," provides that:
    No law shall be passed impairing the freedom of speech; every person shall be free to speak, write or publish whatever he will on any subject, being responsible for all abuse of that liberty . . . .

    The United States Supreme Court has repeatedly acknowledged that its interpretation of the Federal Constitution defines the minimum level of protections that must be afforded, through the Fourteenth Amendment, by the states. See, e.g., PruneYard Shopping Ctr. v. Robins, 447 U.S. 74, 81 (1980). However, the Supreme Court has also recognized that a state may, if it so chooses, afford its residents a greater level of protection under its state constitution than that bestowed by the Federal Constitution. Id.
    With respect to expressive freedoms, this court has recognized that the Colorado Constitution provides broader free speech protections than the Federal Constitution. In Bock v. Westminster Mall Co., 819 P.2d 55 (Colo. 1991), we detailed the source of this increased protection. We relied on the differences between the language of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and the language of the Colorado Constitution. Id. at 58. In addition, we recognized our state's extensive history of affording broader protection under the Colorado Constitution for expressive rights. Id. at 59.
    As discussed in section IIIA above, the First Amendment protects one's right to receive and distribute information and ideas and to purchase reading materials anonymously, without governmental interference. This right also receives protection under our Colorado Constitution. Indeed, because our state constitution provides more expansive protection of speech rights than provided by the First Amendment, it follows that the right to purchase books anonymously is afforded even greater respect under our Colorado Constitution than under the United States Constitution.

    C. The Intersection Between the Constitutional Right to Purchase Books Anonymously and Search Warrants Aimed at Bookstores

    Having defined the right at issue in this case, we next address the collision between the exercise of this right and the investigative efforts of law enforcement officials. We consider the legal test that applies to determine when law enforcement officials may use a search warrant to obtain customer book purchase records from an innocent, third-party bookstore, and the circumstances that trigger application of that test.
    Both the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution and Article II, Section 7 of the Colorado Constitution guard against "unreasonable searches and seizures." U.S. Const. amend. IV; Colo. Const. art. II, 7. Search warrants are the mechanism used to protect against unjustified police intrusions that would otherwise violate the dictates of the Fourth Amendment and Article II, Section 7. See, e.g., Steagald v. United States, 451 U.S. 204, 213 (1981). In order to obtain a search warrant, law enforcement officials must demonstrate, prior to any search, that probable cause exists to believe that the legitimate object of such a search is located in a specific place. See, e.g., id. The warrant itself must describe with particularity the place to be searched and the objects that may be seized. See, e.g., Maryland v. Garrison, 480 U.S. 79, 84 (1987). Such requirements safeguard citizens against "the wide-ranging exploratory searches the Framers [of the Constitution] intended to prohibit." Id.
    Conflicts between First Amendment and Fourth Amendment rights are inevitable when law enforcement officials attempt to use search warrants to obtain expressive materials. This is because a seizure of documents, books, or films is conceptually distinct from a seizure of objects such as guns or drugs. See, e.g., A Quantity of Books v. Kansas, 378 U.S. 205, 211-12 (1964). The former category of objects implicates First Amendment expressive rights, while the latter category of objects does not. Id.
    Outside the context of obscenity, few federal cases have discussed this collision between the Fourth Amendment and the First Amendment. However, the Supreme Court has made clear that, when expressive rights are implicated, a search warrant must comply with the particularity requirements of the Fourth Amendment with "scrupulous exactitude." Zurcher v. Stanford Daily, 436 U.S. 547, 564 (1978); Stanford v. Texas, 379 U.S. 476, 485 (1965).
    In Zurcher, law enforcement officials served a search warrant on a student newspaper, seeking photographic evidence that would help them identify demonstrators who assaulted police officers assisting in the break-up of a demonstration. 436 U.S. at 551. The newspaper challenged the warrant on the basis of the First and Fourth Amendments, arguing that the police should be required to use a subpoena duces tecum instead of a search warrant because of the important First Amendment interests at stake. Id. at 563. The Supreme Court rejected this argument, implying that First Amendment concerns can never entirely preclude the execution of a search warrant that complies with the Fourth Amendment: "Properly administered, the preconditions for a warrant -- probable cause, specificity with respect to the place to be searched and the things to be seized, and overall reasonableness -- should afford sufficient protection against the harms that are assertedly threatened by warrants for searching newspaper offices." Id. at 565.
    The Supreme Court's pronouncements in Zurcher can be read to mean that, beyond the "scrupulous exactitude" requirement, the First Amendment places no special limitation on the ability of the government to seize expressive materials under the Fourth Amendment. We acknowledge that this is arguably the import of Zurcher. Thus, we ground the holding in this case in our Colorado Constitution.
    The Fourth Amendment provides significant and important privacy protections to Americans. Nonetheless, there are occasionally situations where the Fourth Amendment simply does not go far enough. This case presents one such situation.
    We are hesitant to hold that the only constraint limiting law enforcement officials' ability to obtain a search warrant that gives them access to a bookstore's customer purchase records, beyond the general Fourth Amendment requirements applicable to all warrants, is that the search warrant in question describe the expressive material to be seized with scrupulous exactitude. Under this approach, assuming that the probable cause standard was met and that the materials to be seized are very precisely described, expressive materials can always be seized, irrespective of the substantial chilling effects that might result. Thus, fundamental expressive rights could never preclude law enforcement officials from seizing particular expressive materials.
    To take a simple example, one could imagine a situation where law enforcement officials might have probable cause to search a bookstore for all records relating to any purchases of the book The Anarchist's Cookbook. The requirement that the police describe the materials to be seized with "scrupulous exactitude" could be easily met in this situation by limiting seizure to those records involving sales of the specific book. We agree that, depending on the exact factual circumstances, such a seizure might be necessary and appropriate. However, the substantial chilling effects that could occur if this hypothetical search warrant were executed mean that there might also be circumstances where the police should be entirely precluded from executing the warrant.
    Thus, we find the protections afforded to fundamental expressive rights by federal law, under the above interpretation of Zurcher, to be inadequate. We turn to our Colorado Constitution, which we now hold requires a more substantial justification from the government than is required by the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution when law enforcement officials attempt to use a search warrant to obtain an innocent, third-party bookstore's customer purchase records.
    Our basic rationale for this holding is that, before law enforcement officials are permitted to take actions that are likely to chill people's willingness to read a full panoply of books and be exposed to diverse ideas, law enforcement officials must make a heightened showing of their need for the innocent bookstore's customer purchase records. We emphasize that a bookstore's customer purchase records are not absolutely protected from discovery and that this question must be decided on the particular facts of each case.

    1. Development of a Balancing Test
    We now turn to a discussion of the test that must be applied to determine the circumstances in which law enforcement officials will be permitted to use a search warrant to obtain a bookstore's customer purchase records.
    The facts of this case are unusual. The parties have cited, and our independent research discloses, only one previous case where a court has considered the constitutionality of law enforcement attempts to gain access to the purchase records of a bookstore customer. Although that case, In re Grand Jury Subpoena to Kramerbooks & Afterwords Inc., 26 Med. L. Rptr. 1599 (D.D.C. 1998) (hereinafter Kramerbooks), arose in the context of investigative subpoenas, not a search warrant, we find it to be instructive as to the test that should be applied in this case because it addresses and balances the same competing concerns presented here.
    Kramerbooks involved subpoenas issued by the Office of Independent Counsel to two bookstores. Id. at 1599. The subpoenas sought book purchase records related to a particular customer under investigation, Monica Lewinsky. Id. Similar to this case, the bookstores claimed that their revelation of book purchase records would have a chilling effect on the exercise of their customers' First Amendment rights. Id. at 1600.
    The Kramerbooks court determined, as we do for search warrants, that the subpoenas directed to innocent bookstores implicate First Amendment concerns. Id. The court then briefly considered a Supreme Court case involving a grand jury subpoena and the First Amendment right to freedom of the press, Branzburg v. Hayes. Id. at 1600-01. Because Branzburg was not dispositive of the issues presented, the Kramerbooks court turned to federal circuit court cases involving collisions between governmental investigative efforts and the First Amendment. Id. at 1601.
    The court imported the standard applied in those cases to the bookstore context. Thus, the court held that, in order to demonstrate the enforceability of the subpoena, the government must show: (1) a compelling interest in or need for the information sought; and (2) a sufficient connection between the information sought and the criminal investigation. Id. The court then ordered the special prosecutor to submit documents explaining how this test was satisfied for the OIC subpoenas at issue. Id.
    The balancing test used by the Kramerbooks court is similar to that used by the numerous courts that have addressed situations where government action has implicated fundamental speech rights. Specifically, courts have recognized that a very high level of review, referred to as "strict scrutiny" or "exacting scrutiny" is to be undertaken when government action collides with First Amendment rights. See, e.g., Playboy Entm't Group, 529 U.S. at 813; Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1, 64-65 (1976) ("This type of scrutiny is necessary even if any deterrent effect on the exercise of First Amendment rights arises, not through direct government action, but indirectly as an unintended but inevitable result of the government's conduct in requiring disclosure."). This heightened standard is necessary because governmental action that burdens the exercise of First Amendment rights compromises the core principles of an open, democratic society.
    In order to withstand strict scrutiny, the government must have some "compelling" interest at stake. See, e.g., Gibson v. Florida Legislative Investigation Comm., 372 U.S. 539, 546 (1963). Anything less will not justify an abridgement of fundamental speech rights. Beverly v. United States, 468 F.2d 732, 748 (5th Cir. 1972) ("It is simply a statement of long recognized horn-book principles of constitutional law to say that no government, either state or federal, may encroach upon First Amendment rights without the demonstration of a compelling interest.").
    Courts have also required the government to demonstrate a substantial connection between the government's action and the interest the government seeks to further. See, e.g., Buckley, 424 U.S. at 64; Gibson, 372 U.S. at 546. While this prong of the test has been phrased differently by different courts, its import is the same in every case. Id. The government must not do anything that abridges fundamental rights unless the government's action bears the appropriate connection to its compelling government interest, and this connection must be both direct and significant.
    Further, when government action implicates fundamental expressive rights, courts have imposed a few other requirements that must be met in order for the government action to withstand strict scrutiny. For instance, courts commonly require that government action be no broader than necessary to advance its compelling interest. See, e.g., Shelton v. Tucker, 364 U.S. 479, 488 (1960); Bursey, 466 F.2d at 1083 (stating that the government must show that "the incidental infringement upon First Amendment rights is no greater than is essential to vindicate its subordinating interests"). That is, government action must not chill the exercise of fundamental expressive rights any more than absolutely necessary to advance the government's interest. This requirement is frequently referred to as the "least restrictive means" requirement. See, e.g., Buckley, 464 U.S. at 68.
    The balancing test described above addresses the competing concerns implicated when governmental action directly or incidentally abridges constitutionally protected speech rights. It has been used in numerous factual and procedural contexts. We modify the test only slightly to address the specific issues raised when law enforcement officials seek to seize an innocent, third-party bookstore's customer purchase records. We hold that law enforcement officials must demonstrate a sufficiently compelling need for the specific customer purchase record sought from the innocent, third-party bookstore.
    When considering generally applicable laws and regulations that implicate fundamental speech rights, it is logical to
    separate out two distinct steps: first, to consider the government's justification for the law and, second, to determine whether the law serves that purpose. In the context of criminal investigations, the two prongs run together. This is so because the law enforcement officials' need to investigate crime will almost invariably be a compelling one. Thus, the court must engage in a more specific inquiry as to whether law enforcement officials have a compelling need for the precise and specific information sought. Yet this more particularized showing captures the nexus requirement, normally considered separately from the government's interest.
    The second prong of the Kramerbooks test, that there be a "sufficient connection" between the criminal investigation and the information sought, is therefore duplicative of the first prong of the test because the government's need "for the information sought" cannot be compelling unless there exists a sufficient nexus between the investigation and the information sought.
    Here, the trial court recognized that strict scrutiny was the appropriate standard in this case and then applied a balancing test that considered four factors: (1) the government's interest in acquiring the information ; (2) the nexus between the matter investigated and the material sought; (3) whether the information was available from another source; and (4) whether the intrusion was limited in scope so as to prevent exposure of other constitutionally protected materials.
    While the test that we use does not specifically include either the third or fourth prongs of the trial court's test, we believe that these factors are implicit in the balancing test that we develop. The law enforcement officials' need for the information sought cannot be compelling if there are reasonable alternate ways of conducting an investigation other than by seizing a customer's book purchase record. Officials must exhaust these alternatives before resorting to techniques that implicate fundamental expressive rights of bookstores and their customers.

    The fourth factor considered by the trial court, the breadth of the warrant, is also captured by the "compelling need for the information sought" test. When considering a search warrant, a court must separately consider each item that the law enforcement officials seek to obtain. For any particular expressive material sought, if the request is overly broad, then the law enforcement officials will not have a compelling need for that particular item.
    The ultimate question is whether the law enforcement need for the customer purchase record is sufficiently compelling to outweigh the harms caused by execution of the search warrant. We acknowledge that it is difficult to predict the extent of harm that would be caused by execution of any particular search warrant. However, we note that, in most situations, there is a lesser danger of harm to constitutionally protected interests when the customer purchase record is sought for reasons entirely unrelated to the contents of the materials purchased by the customer. The chilling effect that results from disclosure of customer purchase records occurs because of the general fear of the public that, if the government discovers which books it purchases and reads, negative consequences may follow. However, if the government seeks a purchase record to prove a fact unrelated to the content or ideas of the book, then the public's right to read and access these protected materials is chilled less than if the government seeks to discover the contents of the books a customer has purchased.
    For example, if the police were to find a book about baseball with a Tattered Cover price sticker on it in the vicinity of an illegal drug lab, and they wished to find out who purchased the baseball book in order to place that person at the scene of the crime, the harm to constitutional interests caused by forced disclosure of the Tattered Cover's book records might well be permissible under the balancing test we describe. Similarly, if law enforcement officials seek to discover a book purchase record to disprove a suspect's alibi, on the theory that the bookstore record proves that the suspect was at the bookstore at a particular time, the contents of the books bought are not significantly at issue and the harm to the public caused by the seizure of the record is less than if the facts were otherwise.
    To summarize, we hold that our state constitution requires that the government, when it seeks to use a search warrant to discover customer book purchase records from an innocent, third-party bookstore, must demonstrate that it has a compelling need
    for the information sought. In determining whether law enforcement officials have met this standard, the court may consider various factors including whether there are reasonable alternative means of satisfying the asserted need and whether the search warrant is overly broad. The court must then balance the law enforcement officials' need for the bookstore record against the harm caused to constitutional interests by execution of the search warrant. This harm likely will be minimal if the law enforcement officials' reasons for wanting the book purchase record are entirely unrelated to the contents of the books.
    2. Procedural Issues
    Having defined and explained the two-part test applicable to this case, we turn to the procedural context in which this test ordinarily must be applied.
    The procedural context of this particular case is unusual. The City sought and obtained a search warrant as part of an attempt to discover specific information ordinarily protected from involuntary disclosure to law enforcement officials by the First Amendment and Article II, Section 10. Then the City voluntarily agreed to delay execution of the warrant until its validity could be litigated in the district court.
    We are aware, however, that the City could have proceeded to conduct the search before giving a court the opportunity to consider the legality of the warrant in an adversarial setting. This is of grave concern since the chilling effect felt by the general public is caused by the very fact of governmental discovery of book-buying purchases. This chilling effect is unlikely to be offset by any procedural protections, such as the exclusionary rule, that might subsequently be afforded to Suspect A if the search is later deemed to be unconstitutional.
    People in Colorado have a privacy interest in their book-purchase records and, therefore, we recognize that special procedural protections must be afforded to bookstores when law enforcement officials attempt, pursuant to Article II, Section 7, to use a search warrant to obtain these records. The protections afforded by the Colorado Constitution are of little value if the bookstore is not given an opportunity to challenge the law enforcement officials' action before the search warrant is executed. Without the opportunity to protect its rights and the rights of its customers, a bookstore, unrepresented at the typical ex parte search warrant proceeding, might receive short shrift in any constitutional analysis of law enforcement's right to obtain such a search warrant. This point is borne out by the facts of this case. The City's use of progressively narrower requests at each stage of its request for the information convinces us that a hearing is necessary to protect innocent, third-party booksellers and the book-buying public.
    The original DEA subpoena was unlimited in its terms. It sought all of Suspect A's book-purchasing records from the Tattered Cover. Because of the concerns of the district attorney's office, the City's request was narrowed somewhat before the search warrant was approved by a county court judge. The search warrant sought information related to the one transaction for which the police had an invoice number as well as the thirty-day purchasing history of Suspect A.
    After the adversarial hearing, the trial court held that the thirty-day purchasing history request was too broad and therefore unconstitutional. On appeal to us, the City abandons its request for Suspect A's thirty-day purchasing history information, thus implicitly conceding that it was never entitled to the information in the first place.
    Further, the remaining information sought to be seized, related to the specific invoice, has been the subject of heated debate. Had it not been for the Tattered Cover's steadfast stance, the zealousness of the City would have led to the disclosure of information that we ultimately conclude is constitutionally protected. This chronology demonstrates the importance of providing the bookseller with an opportunity to contest the actions of law enforcement officials in an adversarial setting.
    Also supporting the need for an adversary hearing is the fact that, whenever law enforcement officials rifle through a bookstore's file cabinets or computer records, the book-buying records of innocent customers will almost inevitably be exposed to governmental observation. The rights of these innocent customers, who may not want the government to know which books they read, must receive adequate protection.
    The central rationale for the ex parte warrant process does not apply when an innocent, third-party bookstore's book-buying records are seized. In the case of a typical warrant procedure, the magistrate must consider two competing factors: the interests of law enforcement and the privacy rights of the suspect. An ex parte procedure, and the invasive search and seizure that follows, is justified in such a case because of the exigencies of law enforcement and the practical reality that a suspect, if notified ahead of time, has a motive to destroy evidence or otherwise frustrate the search for particularly incriminating records. This justification lacks persuasive force when the subject of the search is an innocent, third-party bookseller.
    Thus, we hold that an innocent, third-party bookstore must be afforded an opportunity for a hearing prior to the execution of any search warrant that seeks to obtain its customers' book-purchasing records. At the hearing, the court will apply the balancing test described above to determine whether law enforcement officials have a sufficiently compelling need for the book purchase record that outweighs the harms associated with enforcement of the search warrant.

  67. The warrant by dr_dank · · Score: 1

    IIRC from my high school CJ class, wouldn't the proprietor still be criminally liable for obstruction of justice by refusing the warrant, regardless of its merit?

    Another example: if the friendly fuzz want to arrest you because they don't like the color of your hat and you fight them off, it would still be resisting arrest, regardless of the circumstances, right?

    Any US-ians with better knowledge of the law care to comment?

    --
    Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
    1. Re:The warrant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the decision. It says the DA asked for a preseizure hearing to investigate the legality of the warrent before it was served.

  68. Text of Judgement (4 of 5) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IV. Application
    Having outlined the relevant constitutional principles, we now apply them to this case. We consider whether the City has demonstrated that it has a compelling need for the Tattered Cover's book purchase record that outweighs the chilling effect likely to result if the search warrant is executed.
    Through its arguments to the trial court and us, as well as through the testimony of Officer Goin and DI McFarland, the City describes three reasons that it is important for it to know
    whether Suspect A purchased the two "how to" books found at the scene of the crime. First, the City states that this will help them to prove the mens rea of the crime, that Suspect A "intentionally or knowingly" operated the methamphetamine lab. Second, the City contends that proof that Suspect A purchased the "how to" books will help them to prove that Suspect A occupied the master bedroom, the place where the books and methamphetamine lab were found. Finally, the City asserts that the Tattered Cover invoice "connects" Suspect A to the crime. We consider each of the City's three justifications in turn, despite the fact that the boundaries between the justifications overlap in some ways.
    With respect to the argument that evidence that Suspect A purchased the books will help prove that he knowingly or intentionally operated a methamphetamine lab, we note that the City's search of the bedroom revealed a fully operational and functional methamphetamine lab as well as a small quantity of the manufactured drug. The two "how to" books were found in the immediate vicinity of the lab. The physical presence of the lab itself, and of these books, goes a long way towards proving that the operator of the lab did not accidentally manufacture methamphetamines. These facts leave no doubt that the person or persons who operated this lab did so intentionally.
    We must also consider the chilling effect that would be caused by execution of the search warrant. The Tattered Cover presented unrefuted testimony that the execution of the search warrant in this case would have a substantial chilling effect on the willingness of its customers to purchase controversial books. As discussed earlier, Joyce Meskis, the owner of the Tattered Cover, stated that she had received an "enormous amount of feedback" from customers about this case, including over one hundred letters from customers in support of the Tattered Cover's position. Many customers told Meskis that they shopped at the Tattered Cover because of the Tattered Cover's policy of not disclosing customer book purchase records. Meskis testified that if book purchase records were made available to investigative authorities, customers would not feel at ease perusing, buying, or reading a wide variety of books. Meskis pointed out that "people who read books are very concerned about First Amendment issues, and their privacy as it relates to First Amendment issues. This is not an uninformed society, they care."
    Additionally, an official from the American Library Association testified about the chilling effect that results from disclosure of library circulation records and a bookstore owner from the State of Washington testified about the concerns expressed by his customers about their privacy rights while the Kramerbooks case was pending.
    On balance, we conclude that the City's need for the invoice, in order to help them prove the statutorily required mens rea element, is not sufficiently compelling to outweigh the harm that would be caused by execution of the search warrant.
    Thus, we turn to the City's second justification, that the invoice will help them to demonstrate that Suspect A occupied the master bedroom and, hence, must have operated the methamphetamine lab. In essence, the City wishes to use the purchasing record to place Suspect A at the scene of the crime.
    As discussed above, it will be difficult for law enforcement officials to demonstrate that their need for a customer's book purchase record is sufficiently compelling to outweigh the harms caused by forced disclosure of the record if there are reasonable alternative means by which the officials can meet their asserted need. We emphasize that our inquiry is focused on the question of whether the City had reasonable alternative ways of discovering who operated the methamphetamine lab, not on the question of who bought the "how to" books.
    One direct way to identify the operator of the lab is to analyze the fingerprints that Officer Goin found on the glassware from the lab to see if they match to Suspect A. However, the record made at the time of the hearing, nine months after the search of the trailer was executed, does not reflect that the City ever followed up on these fingerprints. Certainly that evidence would be more indicative of the identity of the operator of the drug lab than any connection that might be established by proof that Suspect A ordered books that were subsequently found in the room.
    If the City needs evidence of who occupied the master bedroom, as indirect evidence of who must have operated the lab, the record reveals a number of alternative ways in which this information could have been ascertained. The master bedroom in the trailer, apart from the presence of the methamphetamine lab, appears to have been a typical bedroom containing clothes, furniture, papers, and other personal objects. Clothes and shoes could have been examined to see if the sizes matched Suspect A. Objects could have been fingerprinted. The bed and flooring could have been examined for hair or other DNA samples. Beyond this physical evidence, there are numerous witnesses that the City likely could have interviewed without compromising the integrity of their criminal investigation. The parties hotly contest whether it would have been appropriate for the government to interview Suspects A, B, C, or D. This is an issue that neither we nor the trial court is equipped to resolve. However, neighbors, trailer park managers, and other visitors to the trailer, including Persons E and F, may know or have known who occupied the master bedroom. The record does not indicate that these persons were interviewed to determine who lived in the master bedroom.
    Finally, we note that the Tattered Cover customer purchase record does not contribute much to the City's attempt to show that Suspect A occupied the master bedroom. Objects belonging to several different people were found in the bedroom. Thus, assuming that the two "how to" books belonged to Suspect A, their presence in the bedroom does not necessarily mean that Suspect A occupied that room.
    In arguing that it needs the Tattered Cover invoice to identify Suspect A as the occupant of the master bedroom, the City suggests that the Tattered Cover customer purchase record is not sought for a reason related to the content of the two "how to" books. As explained above, a non-content related purpose for seeking a customer book purchase record will ordinarily result in a lesser chilling effect than experienced when such a record is sought for a content-related purpose. However, the content-related uses of the book purchase record in this case are not easily separated from the non-content related uses. Thus, we reiterate our earlier conclusion that the enforcement of this search warrant is likely to result in a substantial chilling effect.
    Hence, we conclude that the City's need to obtain the Tattered Cover invoice in order to identify Suspect A as the occupant of the bedroom is not sufficiently compelling to outweigh the harm to fundamental constitutional rights that would result if the search warrant was executed.
    The City's final justification is that proof that Suspect A bought the two books will "connect" him to the crime. The City's argument is somewhat amorphous because it never elaborates on the specific reason as to why the connection exists. At its core, however, the argument rests on the premise that if Suspect A bought the "how to" books, he must have operated the lab. The rationale for this argument is thus directly tied to the contents of the books Suspect A may have purchased. This is precisely the reason that this search warrant is likely to have chilling effects on the willingness of the general public to purchase books about controversial topics.
    The dangers, both to Suspect A and to the book-buying public, of permitting the government to access the information it seeks, and to use this proof of purchase as evidence of Suspect A's guilt, are grave. Assuming that Suspect A purchased the books in question, he may have done so for any of a number of reasons, many of which are in no way linked to his commission of any crime. He might have bought them for a friend or roommate, unaware that they would subsequently be placed in the vicinity of an illegal drug lab. He might have been curious about the process of making drugs, without having any intention to act on what he read. It may be that none of these scenarios is as likely as that suggested by the City, that Suspect A bought the books intending to use them to help him make an illegal drug. Nonetheless, Colorado's long tradition of protecting expressive freedoms cautions against permitting the City to seize the Tattered Cover's book purchase record.
    We acknowledge that the Tattered Cover invoice helps the City to connect Suspect A to the crime and constitutes "a piece of the evidentiary puzzle." However, because of the strength of other evidence at the City's disposal and because of the substantial chilling effects that are likely to result from execution of the warrant, we hold that the City has failed to demonstrate that its need for this evidence is sufficiently compelling to outweigh the harmful effects of the search warrant.

  69. Yah! by Electrawn · · Score: 1

    Good old Blues Brothers method of doing things. Watch out for cops with SCMODs.

  70. Yeah! by Greyfox · · Score: 2
    And while we're at it, we should round up all the goddamn muslims and put them in concentration camps!

    Whoops! I call Goodwin's Law!

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  71. Full Judgement Text (5 of 5) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    V. CONCLUSION
    For the reasons discussed above, we reverse the judgment of the district court and remand for further proceedings consistent with this opinion

  72. Congrats Tattered Cover. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In this day and age of Bush and Ashcroft, it is nice to see that our civil iberties are somewhat standing. As a libertarian, I have gotten sick of the amount that ppl have been willing to give up to obtain a truley false sense of security.

  73. communism by zoftie · · Score: 1

    In czar russia there were forbidden books, about political thought. There was police that was monitoring political groups, basically thought police. If some was found reading an illegal book, the punishment would range from beating to life imprisonment in siberia. While two countries are not same, and should not really be compated, if we defocus, we would see strikingly similar pattern here, where government builds up legal power behind itself to control citizens with whatever force required to do anything needed.
    Remember it got this bad because we did not fight every case, sum of which has eroded public freedoms of individual citizens. I think it is too late, we should fight for our rights anyway, but it is all careening towards loud, poisonous stinky explosion that will fracture social infrastructure and trust in government. It is already edges closer and closer with "borderless" war and unlimited control in the white house, underhanded dealing of Mr Bush and his friends(namely Enron?) ...

    1. Re:communism by DEBEDb · · Score: 1

      In czar russia there were forbidden books

      Yeah. In czarist Russia. It all, of course, changed
      when the Bolsheviks took over.

      --

      Considered harmful.
  74. Jackbooted thugs by coyote-san · · Score: 2

    Let's get this straight - if the government gives you the right to speak on the corner soapbox but sends jackbooted thugs to beat anyone who dares to listen to you to a bloody pulp before dragging them off to jail, YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS WORTHLESS. The right to speech includes, as a necessary component, the right of others to listen to you in peace.

    That's Civil Liberties 101, and should be familiar to anyone arguing this case.

    That's why the American Library Association (ALA) has long held that patron's reading selections should be considered Constitutionally protected. Just as it is unconstitutional for the government to prevent the publication or distribution of a book, it should be considered unconstitutional for the government to post a cop in the stacks whose icy stare and hand on the butt of his gun must be endured to pick up a book, and even the threat of the cops reviewing a list of who has read a book should be done with great caution.

    The Tattered Cover sells books, instead of just lending them out, but the same arguments apply. IMHO, the ONLY reason this case has gotten as far as it has is that the Thornton police are asking for records about a specific purchase with evidence left at a crime scene, not just asking for a list of all purchasers of a specific book.

    --
    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  75. thank you by vipw · · Score: 1

    I had no idea how they were applying the first amendment to the case, but that line of reasoning makes a lot of sense, thanks for the reply clearing this up.

  76. Re:Congratulations. by jonnythan · · Score: 2

    Way to split an infinitive.

  77. I must not understand this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    I was under the impression that the issue involved a search warrant, not that the police decided to arbitrarily scan, listen or otherwise gain access to the buying habits of the suspect whether directly from the suspect or through the places that business was performed.

    If this is indeed the case, then what is the fuss about? Can not the police search your house and gain access to your records if they have obtained a warrant?

    And no, this is not a flame or troll. I really just don't understand it yet. I have not followed this, so I figured people here could give a nice 'low down' of the case.

    To any maverick mod's out there, please read the moderation guidelines and learn that moderation is _not_ for purposes of censorship and shouting out others, if you disagree with any post (this one has no view to disagree with, it is questions) then try and respond like adults instead of marking down like children lashing out.

    1. Re:I must not understand this by Happy+go+Lucky · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If this is indeed the case, then what is the fuss about? Can not the police search your house and gain access to your records if they have obtained a warrant?

      It's not quite the case. It was a subpoena, not a warrant.

      A warrant is a document commanding police to search a given place and seize certain items found therein. A subpoena is a document on the court's authority commanding a person or entity to turn over certain documents to the court. It doesn't typically involve having cops go and search premises for those items.

      When I serve a search warrant, I'm working under certain rules. Basically, if a person refuses to open a door after I've knocked and announced and waited the reasonable time required by law, then we knock the door down. If a person refuses to unlock a container that could contain the items named in the warrant, we break it open. If the person obstructs us, we arrest him for obstructing a peace officer.

      If they're served with a subpoena and have some reason for not complying, they can try to have the subpoena quashed by the court-IIRC, this is what the bookstore did. Or they can refuse to comply without actually doing it the way the law requires, and that opens the door to contempt proceedings. But subpoenas can be quashed by a court, since the time factor common with warrants usually doesn't exist with subpoenas. They're not generally for evidence which will decay over time or be destroyed by a guilty party if not seized.

  78. Freedom to think by HardCase · · Score: 3, Informative

    The court's decision is chock full of some very significant ideas and quotes from previous cases, many of which directly apply to another free speech issue - the DMCA.

    For example: "Without the right to receive information and ideas, the protection of speech under the United States and Colorado Constitutions would be meaningless."

    Or: "Everyone must be permitted to discover and consider the full range of expression and ideas available in our 'marketplace of ideas.'"

    Footnote 14 in the text of the decision is an absolutely brilliant quotation of Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis regarding the "freedom to think as you will and speak as you think".

    The decision is well worth reading. It's not in some sort of complex legalese. Far from it, it is very clearly stated.

    -h-

    1. Re:Freedom to think by drox · · Score: 2

      "Without the right to receive information and ideas, the protection of speech... would be meaningless."

      Or: "Everyone must be permitted to discover and consider the full range of expression and ideas available in our 'marketplace of ideas.'"


      Does the above apply only if the expressions and ideas are written in ink on paper?

      What if it were to apply to expressions and ideas written in ones and zeros?

  79. Re:1st Amendment? Not 4th? by Malkthulhu · · Score: 1
    So I'm confused, how exactly does this relate to the 1st?

    It relates to the First Ammendment in that it would create "substantial chilling effects" towards a person's freedom to be exposed to free speech.

    The actual excerpt from the court documents:
    "Our basic rationale for this holding is that, before law enforcement officials are permitted to take actions that are likely to chill people's willingness to read a full panoply of books and be exposed to diverse ideas, law enforcement officials must make a heightened showing of their need for the innocent bookstore's customer purchase records. We emphasize that a bookstore's customer purchase records are not absolutely protected from discovery and that this question must be decided on the particular facts of each case.

    For example, if the police were to find a book about baseball with a Tattered Cover price sticker on it in the vicinity of an illegal drug lab, and they wished to find out who purchased the baseball book in order to place that person at the scene of the crime, the harm to constitutional interests caused by forced disclosure of the Tattered Cover's book records might well be permissible under the balancing test we describe. Similarly, if law enforcement officials seek to discover a book purchase record to disprove a suspect's alibi, on the theory that the bookstore record proves that the suspect was at the bookstore at a particular time, the contents of the books bought are not significantly at issue and the harm to the public caused by the seizure of the record is less than if the facts were otherwise."

    As this states, bookstore records are not always protected by the First Ammendment, but when searches start to target people who seek specific ideas, they begin to encroach upon First Ammendment rights, even when the searches meet the "scrupulous exactitude" requirements for the Fourth Ammenment and Article II, Section 7 of the Colorado Constitution.
  80. Thanks, TC by Pinball+Wizard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Something most independent bookstores have in common is that they will fight tooth and nail to preserve your First Amendment rights. What Tattered just did was fight back what could easily be the first step on a slippery slope to eroding our rights. Think of what might happen next if Tattered lost. Publishers might become reluctant to publish so-called "subversive" material. Readers would have to be wary about which books they bought, knowing that the records could be subpeonaed.

    Think about that the next time you buy books. The big chains, amazon, et. al do not have this tradition of protecting your information - in fact they are looking at ways to make use of it for marketing purposes. Its the independent bookstores around the country who really care about defending the First Amendment, because that reflects in the quality of literature we will see, and ultimately reflects on our individual freedom to write and speak as we choose. When was the last time you saw "Banned Books week" at amazon.com or Barnes & Noble?

    Now we have a good legal precedent to back us up. Thanks, Tattered Cover!

    --

    No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?

    1. Re:Thanks, TC by rmohr02 · · Score: 1

      I remembered back when Amazon.com changed its privacy policy, saying that if they needed (or wanted) to, they would sell their customers out. Granted, this isn't to the government, but very few small town bookstores would sell customer info.

  81. Before you break out the champagne, ... by blamanj · · Score: 5, Informative

    Note that under the so-called "Patriot Act", not only will the FBI be able to seize these kinds of records, but it will be illegal for the media to report on any such seizure. How's that for the ability to rewrite history, Soviet-style?

    Details here.

    The FBI was never here, go about your business.

    1. Re:Before you break out the champagne, ... by kindbud · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Patriot Act is just like the DMCA. It's proponents are afraid to use its most draconian measures for fear that the result would be the courts striking the whole thing from the books. The Patriot Act, like the DMCA, is a means to cower the defenseless. No one who has the means to defend themselves will be attacked with any controversial provisions in the Patriot Act. In other words, the prohibition against the media reporting seizures is irrelevent, because no one the media would care to report on will be targetted by the seizure provisions.

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
    2. Re:Before you break out the champagne, ... by DEBEDb · · Score: 1

      illegal for the media to report on any such seizure

      Heil, fuhrer Ashcroft.

      --

      Considered harmful.
    3. Re:Before you break out the champagne, ... by dachshund · · Score: 1
      In other words, the prohibition against the media reporting seizures is irrelevent, because no one the media would care to report on will be targetted by the seizure provisions.

      My understanding was that the people who receive the warrant are also under the gag order. So it doesn't matter if the media wants to report on it or not-- if the police pick people who are easily cowed, the media never even gets to hear about it.

  82. Speakers require listeners by coyote-san · · Score: 2

    If the state can't harass speakers, but can harass listeners, then the right to speak is pretty worthless.

    That's why the right to listen (or read) in peace is considered an integral part of the freedoms of speech and press. The government can't send the cops to harass listeners, or the FD to hit them with a fire hose, or even the FBI with sound gear they used in Waco.

    For a counterpoint, you should still be able to find people with living memory of fascist and communist regimes which had "freedom of speech"... but anyone foolish enough to be caught listening would be sent to the Gulag. Or the death camps.

    --
    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  83. A modest proposal by kindbud · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the future, instead of linking to Amazon when you want to refer someone to a book, link to The Tattered Cover, like this:

    The Termcap Manual, by Richard Stallman.

    Support the folks that regard as important the same ideals you regard as important. Amazon is not your friend. The Tattered Cover is. They are fighting the good fight, and at no small cost to themselves. You should thank them by sending them your business and your friends' business.

    --
    Edith Keeler Must Die
    1. Re:A modest proposal by klocwerk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Support the folks that regard as important the same ideals you regard as important. Amazon is not your friend. The Tattered Cover is. They are fighting the good fight, and at no small cost to themselves. You should thank them by sending them your business and your friends' business.

      Someone please mod this up, I'm out of mod points atm.
      How many of those people slamming microsoft for a monopoly will turn around and buy from Amazon, hmm?

      --

      "You worthless post!"
      -Shakespeare, 2 Gentlemen of Verona, 1. 1. 147
    2. Re:A modest proposal by White+Roses · · Score: 3, Interesting
      This is probably the best idea to hit /. in a while. Stop linking to Amazon, with their idiotic 1-Click patent, and start linking to someone who has better policies and practices. All my book links are going to them as of now.

      Thinking in Java, Bruce Eckel

      --
      Do not touch -Willie
    3. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it's a good idea. But you obviously haven't figured out yet that /. is 100% hypocritical! It shouts "yes" and does "no". So, don't waste your breath with rational, philosophically consisant ideas, there's no place for them here.

    4. Re:A modest proposal by kindbud · · Score: 2

      I really hope they don't suffer lost business from the Slashdotting... I should buy Richard's book from them or something... ugh, Termcap!!! :(

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
    5. Re:A modest proposal by ghutchis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Better yet, please link to BookSense.com

      http://www.booksense.com/

      Not only does BookSense support the Tattered Cover (and tons of other local independent bookstores), but you can easily order from *your* local bookstore. Can Amazon beat same-day pickup?

      (BTW, the American Bookseller's Association which runs BookSense.com is partially supporting the Tattered Cover legal fees.)

      -Geoff

    6. Re:A modest proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did my part to make sure they're not losing business from the slashdotting. Once upon a time,
      I lived in Denver and I was quite fond of the Tattered Cover. I never noticed they'd gone into
      the online book sales business. Thanks for posting this; I've just dropped amazon like a dirty sock.

      Now if only they had a location in Washington DC.

      (btw, I bought a copy of "Ruby in a Nutshell". Seriously. Go buy something, folks.)

    7. Re:A modest proposal by Fjord · · Score: 1

      Amazon is far from being the monopoly that Microsoft is. They've barely become cash flow positive.

      --
      -no broken link
  84. This begs an interesting question: by BillX · · Score: 1

    Does the freedom of speech include the freedom to listen to the speech of others?
    Does the chilling effect of someone cataloguing that speech which you are privy to, and using it against you, obliviate that right?

    --
    Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
    1. Re:This begs an interesting question: by coyote-san · · Score: 2

      Yes, Freedoms of Speech and Press includes the right of others to listen/read in peace.

      This means that the police can't hassle the audience - they can't question you, or demand you identify yourself, or even (arguably) photograph the crowd in an aggressive manner. This is especially noteworthy in light of the recent disclosure that the Denver Police (and remember that it was a Denver DA that signed off on this after the cop's own DA refused to) have been maintaining overly-broad files on "gang" members.

      The police can still act in the name of compelling public interest, e.g., keeping people from spilling onto the street, from blocking passage by others, etc.

      --
      For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  85. Merit required for enforcement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it was prima facie not valid, then no crime was committed. Since the court has struck down the warrant (subpoena?), no compliance is required.

    Requiring compliance regardless of merit would allow any police officer to search any home at any time, just because they felt like it. They could write their own warrant, sign it, and then force their way in. Without demonstrated merit, it is not enforceable.

  86. This begs an interesting question by BillX · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does the freedom of speech include the freedom to listen to the speech of others?

    Does the chilling effect of someone cataloguing that speech which you are privy to, and using it against you, abridge that right?

    --
    Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
    1. Re:This begs an interesting question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't beg a question, it suggests a question. To beg a question is to answer it using circular reasoning.

  87. Civil Liberties by coyote-san · · Score: 2

    This is "civil liberties," and this case is relatively tame. You should be able to find a decent introductory textbook on any large college campus.

    --
    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  88. This is a WORD file!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This decision is a %^*** WORD file - windows users only.

    I can't read the damn thing.

    Can some US citizen (since I am not) complain to the court about this please on behalf of all of us?????

    1. Re:This is a WORD file!!! by JamesOfTheDesert · · Score: 2
      Gee, I thought one of those uber-source things, like Star Office, could read every document format known to Man.

      Seems every week there's a story on Slashdot about how we can all ditch MS Office.

      --

      Java is the blue pill
      Choose the red pill
    2. Re:This is a WORD file!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Gee, I thought one of those uber-source things, like Star Office, could read every document format known to Man.

      i wouldn't know about staroffice, but on my machine at least konqueror passed the thing right on to abiword which opened it just peachy-like. the main reason i'm not ditching MS Office is i'd have to start using it first, and so far i've luckily had no need for that.

    3. Re:This is a WORD file!!! by lawyamike · · Score: 1

      No, not likely. Unfortunately, the average citizen has no standing to participate in suits like this, not until the weight of the government is brought against him or her, at least.

    4. Re:This is a WORD file!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Use lsdoc and quit crying.

  89. Re:1st Amendment? Not 4th? by Brand+X · · Score: 2

    Yes, this question has been addressed elsewhere. I'm sure other answers
    have been more eloquent and informed. But the question, here, even when
    answered elsewhere, begs to be answered here.



    1st amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


    This actually falls, in a roundabout way, under both abridgements of the
    right to speech without punishment (And how that has been weakened), and
    the right of the press to print without the editorial oversight of those
    who would be our moral parents.

    It ought, however, to also fall under the 4th amendment right you placed
    in bold. This has to do with the blurring of "papers" and "effects", as
    the constitution was written before so many agencies that would not have
    been considered protected regions for personal privacy started keeping a
    huge amount of private information.

    Honestly, there is a justification for, and a general acceptance of, the
    right of parties charged with maintaining peace, order, law, and justice
    to obtain certain information, in restricted circumstances, regarding an
    otherwise private detail of an individual being investigated in criminal
    matters. With public oversight of the process, and without a willful or
    careless dissemination of that private information, this becomes a valid
    and sensible tool.

    The problem here, in this case, is that the agency in question failed to
    reasonably limit the scope of their search. The key is "and no warrants
    shall issue ... particularly describing ... things to be seized." There
    is some degree of lattitude, and in many cases, they may have been right
    in their blanket request for "purchase records of X from store Y", where
    store Y was of a particular class of store and one of those records was,
    with a reasonable degree of probability, known to contain information on
    a specific purchase. It's a double bind, you see. They know the record
    in question exists, but not the date, and if the case is still uncertain
    and the suspect still just that (in theory, until conviction), a privacy
    argument (protecting against careless dissemination) could justify their
    blanket request. Local police might even be thought of as unable to, in
    most cases at least, abuse this particular data, though there are cases,
    especially where "Christian Values" is a buzzword for "We're going to be
    a little facist state here, and if you don't like it, you can go move to
    some big city, you hear?", where that is decidedly not true.

    So... had they asked only for documentation of that specific purchase, a
    reasonable request if not made spuriously as part of a trolling attempt,
    they would have been right. But they asked for all records, which is an
    obvious troll.

    Now the first ammendment comes into the issue, and compounds the search,
    which was already iffy, with what could easilly fall under harassment of
    the free press. Amending the rights of the press doesn't just mean that
    the publication of a paper which says, "Bush is utterly incompetant, and
    that was painfully obvious from his original strategy in Afghanistan, as
    all of you should have seen, and would have, if you weren't so blind and
    stupid with rage. And I'm sure, if he were carefully investigated, that
    it would turn out he was still snorting coke," which exercises the free
    criticism of a public personage, even to the point of near slander (that
    would be the coke line, the first part was a fact, not an accusation) is
    protected. It also means that the publisher of said paper has the right
    not to have goons hired by a corrupt and facist president harassing him,
    or police spending more time investigating him (as opposed to more time,
    in the case of someone who has publicly voiced an intention to kill that
    devolved primate in question, and done so in a credible manner, checking
    very carefully to make sure the second individual is not actually trying
    to do so... but not, for example, checking to see if he smokes pot), and
    in that respect, monitoring the consumption of published goods is indeed
    a 1st amendment issue. It is an issue of principal. I read. I read in
    great volume, and from a great many fields. A watchdog agency might get
    some funny ideas from what I read, though not internally consistant ones
    if they tried to make a criminal pattern of it. But more important than
    whether they might get suspicious (and the degrees in physics and a wide
    range of hobbies and my current work in artificial nerves explain all of
    the nonfiction, aside from the anthropological elements, which are taken
    from my dad, an anthropologist... so they can just back off, thank you,)
    is whether they might try to profile. I have a friend who the DEA tried
    to harrass because he'd been purchasing botanical books and supplies, of
    a potentially drug related (and RPGs lead to satanic cults) nature. The
    SOBs just ignored the fact that he was a botanist (PhD) and worked for a
    legal agricultural hemp research program on the big island of Hawai'i, a
    tendancy that's common with those criminal thugs.

    He ceased to do business with Barnes N Noble after that visit.

    Now, would you trust an agency like the DEA to be honest, or even legal,
    in its use of personal information about your reading habits? Would you
    purchase books that might be "considered suspicious"? Even if they were
    not for criminal purposes? What about books that might be embarassments
    if publicly displayed? I buy certain books relating to recovering from,
    and dealing with, certain severe forms of child abuse. I don't but them
    for myself. I'm recovered just fine, thank you, thanks to some luck and
    a few remarkable people... but some of the people I buy them for are not
    yet able to admit that it happened to them, at least in the face of this
    judgemental and often revolted public, and don't believe that there will
    never be some suspicious and unscupled person snooping through the books
    they have purchased, and outing them.

    Hell, the same probably applies to gay rights books...

    And you want an agency with that track record pushing the limit of this?
    The people who publish such books might as well hang their hats, if that
    happens. No one will risk buying the books if big brother is watching.

    --
    -- Still waiting for the Nike endorsement
  90. Re:1st Amendment? Not 4th? by DEBEDb · · Score: 1

    It's a bookstore, therefore, it must fall under free press.

    Ouch! Would you like to fall under
    a press, however free?

    --

    Considered harmful.
  91. arg, getting sick of useless comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    RTFA

  92. legal fees by SlugLord · · Score: 1, Funny
    I can only imagine what the Tattered cover's legal bill must

    zero. The UCLA probably picked up the tab.

  93. Given their prices, they can afford it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tattered Cover charges full list for everything.

    This decision is IMHO yet another reason to shop elsewhere.

    The First Amendment regards freedom of the press; the government is not making a law denying you that freedom if they choose to know what you're reading...

  94. US Supreme Court by sfjoe · · Score: 1


    Don't get too excited. This one will likely end up in front of the Bush family retainers on the US Supreme Court. Scalia and his buddy "Coca-Cola" Clarence like nothing better than to tap-dance on the graves of what used to be our privacy.

    --
    It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
  95. The Napster problem in a nutshell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm...

    In the general case of "file transfer" it actually might be covered.

    The specific idea of copyright violation is obviously NOT covered.

    But how do you tell if copyright violation is happening, unless you monitor, and violate the judge's order?

  96. I used to work there by JimmytheGeek · · Score: 1

    It's a great bookstore. A "destination retail establishment" worth making room in an itinerary for. I go back whenever I am in Denver.

    The committment to free speech is very strong there.

    Customer service is great, too. We used to field all sorts of queries like, "I'm looking for that lemon colored book..." "You mean the lime-colored one on Bipolar Disorder and color-blindness?"

    "That's it!"

    "2nd floor, medical/psychology section."

  97. They didn't give the offenders names... by bhsx · · Score: 1

    but at least they gave the book titles:

    Advanced Techniques of Clandestine Psychedelic and Amphetamine Manufacture, by Uncle Fester, and The Construction and Operation of Clandestine Drug Laboratories, by Jack B. Nimble.


    I'm sure you can find them online somewhere...

    But maybe we just found a better place to buy books. I know I just switched bookstores :)

    Support these people, please!

    --
    put the what in the where?
  98. No... It's still laughable. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have a nice life tin man!

  99. That loud whooshing sound you just heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Was the point flying over your head at Mach 2, grammar bitch.

  100. What's the big deal? by Eric+Damron · · Score: 2

    As long as the police followed due process in obtaining a warrent, I don't see a problem.

    Believe it or not sometimes it is necessary for law enforcement officials to invade our privacy and that's why a warrent is required. A warrent must be issued by a Judge and if the warrent isn't given out capriciously then it should be honored.

    --
    The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
  101. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The constitution may not explicitly say that the govt cannot get the records, BUT it does say that you can read whatever the hell you want, meaning that the order is useless and would just be a waste of the bookstores time and a LARGE breach of the constitution.

  102. Tattered Cover commited no crime by coyote-san · · Score: 2

    It's a nuanced point, but the 4th Amendment usually applies to the subject of a criminal investigation, not witnesses.

    The guy with the meth lab could claim 4th Amendment rights since he was being investigated for a criminal act.

    But the Tattered Cover, technically, was a witness whether he legally purchased a legally published book on criminal acts. They were not, and could never be, charged with any crime. Since they weren't in jeopardy, the 4th Amendment doesn't apply.

    In contrast, had the "anti-pornography" amendment passed a few years ago then they could be charged with a criminal act for selling certain books, and the 4th Amendment would apply. Fortunately that Amendment was shot down, in part due to the efforts of the owner of the Tattered Cover.

    --
    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
  103. Re:With a warrant? What's the beef? by studerby · · Score: 2
    If you'd bother to read the judges opinion, it would explain it all for you; however to synopsize...

    The First Amendment guarantees "freedom of speech" and "freedom of the press".
    The Supreme Court has decided that this entails a "freedom to read" without supervision of the government.
    The Supreme Court has further decided that libraries and bookstores have the right to defend this "freedom to read", both as a matter of public policy and to further their own economic interests, to prevent the "chilling effect" of governmental monitoring.

    Incidentally, the Court's opinion noted that the local cops(Thornton, CO) were unable to get a warrant from the local DA's office, even after approaching numerous ADAs, because they all thought it was improper; they eventually got their warrant from the Denver DA, despite the fact that the crime was not committed in that jurisdiction.

    --

    .sig generation error:468(3)

  104. Re:Congratulations. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Subject-predicate, asshole. Way to write a complete sentence.

  105. Re:Banned books at B&N by Yekrats · · Score: 1
    When was the last time you saw "Banned Books week" at amazon.com or Barnes & Noble?


    Actually, the last time I was at Barnes & Noble they had a table featuring "banned" books. (Mind you, this was a couple of months ago.) Nothing too radical, but your usual fare of classics: Farenheit 451, Huckleberry Finn, Wizard of Oz, etc.

    -- Yekrats
    --
    Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
  106. This must be UNAMERICAN!!!! by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
    bookcases all the way up the stairwell...
    But... how can the people there can be watching TV commercials??? This place is UNAMERICAN!!!
  107. It's kinda funny, but... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2

    ...I have came for a cup of coffee and ricochet-covered location (long story) to the Tattered Cover bookstore, and first thing I see on my notebook on slashdot is... a story about tattered cover ;-).

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  108. Libraries by Halo- · · Score: 1

    My mom is the director of a public library, and I know for a fact she regularly refuses requests to disclose the borrowing habits of suspects. I beleive there is precedence for this. I remember a little something about a supreme court judge and video rentals...

  109. Re: 1st Amendment? Not 4th? by phliar · · Score: 2
    The 1st Amendment rights being protected are those of the author of the book.

    I have the right to write a book on "How To Make Methamphetamine".

    You have the right to buy and read this book. In a raid on a meth lab, the cops found this book. Now if the state can, in the investigation of this crime (running a meth lab), subpoena the records of the bookstore to get a list of everyone who bought "How To Make Methamphetamine", they know you bought that book even though you have no connection at all with the crime, and were never a suspect.

    I think you'll agree that this will tend to make you not buy that book. Your privacy has been invaded.

    And this impacts my freedom to write and publish that book.

    Any restriction on writing, publishing, selling, and lending books will infringe authors' First Amendment rights. When we pass laws that infringe, we must be very sure that there is a clear and compelling reason to do so, viz. "shouting 'fire!' in a crowded theatre". Routine fact-gathering during a criminal investigation does not qualify (IMHO).

    (Note: your video renting records are protected thanks to the Clarence Thomas confirmation brouhaha.)

    --
    Unlimited growth == Cancer.
  110. The right to read by achurch · · Score: 2

    While you're at it, here's one RMS would like: "The right of freedom of speech and press includes . . . the right to read . . ." (footnote 11)

  111. Size of the Tattered Cover by automag_6 · · Score: 1

    the one in Lo-Do (what us natives call lower down town) is *5-stories*. granted, not a heck of a lot of square footage, but that place is HUGE for a books store. when you say "They have a second branch in LoDo (Lower-Downtown) which is smaller but still of quite a respectable size." what are you comparing it to, and auto plant?

  112. Who should hold office FOO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Same as always - anyone who really really wants to be a lawyer, politician or police should absolutely not be allowed to hold such a job.

  113. Why keep a list of what I buy? by lythander · · Score: 2

    The problem here isn't that government is trying to violate my first amendment rights by looking at what I buy, it's that the booksellers aid and abet them by keeping a list of what I bought in the first place!!!!!

    1. Re:Why keep a list of what I buy? by pkesel · · Score: 1

      They're keeping a list of invoices, standard business records. Do you expect a merchant to destroy any notion of what they sold to whom? Are they disolved of liability then when products are recalled and they don't know who they are to notify? Or what about the fraud who waltzes in with a banged up item wanting a refund, but who the merchant doesn't recognize. Or someone claiming damages from an item, again with no proof that it came from the store. Should they have no opportunity to verify the purchase from their store?

      If you're going to take away a merchant's ability to protect himself from fraudulent or simply incorrect claims then you've got to take away his liability, and most people wouldn't stand for that.

      --
      - Sig this!
  114. Who's collecting this information? by careysb · · Score: 1

    I'm 100% behind the Tattered Cover and their fight. However, I wonder why the information is being collected in the first place and how that information is being used.

  115. Re:Perhaps A Book Can be More Dangerous than a Gun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right, let's outlaw the manual's on how to fly a plane. Cause, I'm pretty sure that the bookstores around here don't have manual's on how to fly a plane into a building.

    Also, remember, it's not like they made the planes, that's probably Boeing's fault, so crucify them as well please

  116. Anonymous purchaser??? by JWBsDad · · Score: 1
    Throughout the judgment the purchaser was referred to as Suspect A as he was not a party to the case, but in a footnote he is listed as: "[Suspect A] who lists a current address as [I removed this part], Arvada, Colorado, 80002". With his current address couldn't anyone who wanted to find out who Suspect A is?

    Do you think the court missed this or do they really not care about his anonymity?

    --
    Ahhh yess, the obligatory sigh oh, did you say sig?
    1. Re:Anonymous purchaser??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole idea is to find out who purchased the books. They know where they were shipped, but for all you know I could have those same books shipped to you, listing your address as my "current address", does that mean that you were premeditating to make a meth lab for yourself? No. If they can identify who bought the books, they know who to assign the premeditation to. Maybe it is their suspect, maybe not.

  117. The Scope is Too Broad by Pooua · · Score: 1

    It is argued that the 1st Amendment protects the general exchange of information. This case appears to argue from this general principle that not only can people exchange information, but the use of that information in the execution of a crime is also protected. It seems to me that discovering that a person suspected of a crime had learned how to commit the crime is a justifiable pursuit of law enforcement. If a suspect having no previous training is suspected of poisoning another person, it should be relevant that the suspect had immediately prior learned how to poison someone. Likewise, if a suspect with no prior training had been found to have learned how to make bombs immediately prior to being the suspect in a bombing, it should be relevant information for a court. In a contemporary example, the fact that some suspects with no previous training had immediately prior to hijacking several jets taken several months of flight school, it would seem relevant legal information. So, it should be relevant that a suspect in a case of illegal drug manufacture had immediately prior bought a book on illegal drug manufacturing. I do not see how the right to exchange information can prohibit the legal system from learning the connection between a suspect and the source of information in a relevant case.

    --
    Taking stuff apart since 1969 (TM)
  118. I agree with the ruling, but by way0utwest · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure it should apply everywhere. The search warrant was too broad from what I've read (IANAL) and they wanted evidence of anyone who'd purchased the books. I choose to disclose what I read on my website, but that's my choice. I don't think Amazon or anyone else should be disclosing what I've bought.


    However, if the search warrant was seeking purchase records for specific books by a specific individual for whom there was other INDEPENDENT evidence of criminal activity, then I think the record request is justified and should be released.


    Not records of everyone who purchased that book and probably not evidence of other books you've purchased. But if you are arrested for counterfeiting. You have books in your possession that relate to counterfeiting (like Counterfieting for Dummies) and a bookstore receipt, the police have a duty to relate that book to you through a purchase record.


    Besides, only users lose drugs :)

  119. cash and anonymity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this seems to be all about being able to consume protected speech, and the implication that anonymity is required to achieve that.
    so I wonder what good these records would do if once suppeonead, they showed that the books in question were purchased with cash, and no further information on the purchaser was taken?

    remember folks: for the near future, small amounts of cash are still anonymous.

  120. INCORRECT by scribblej · · Score: 1

    Addison St. is 3600 N. If you drove to 3600 N Clark, you would be in front of Wrigley Field.

    However, Wrigley field's address is not on Clark, it is on Addison. 1060 West Addison, to be precise.

    I live two blocks from there.

  121. Re:Perhaps A Book Can be More Dangerous than a Gun by smyle · · Score: 1
    What I am saying is, that if we are going to accept that we have a wait and background check on gun purchases,

    I thought that that "if" is what started this thread.

    then a "red-flags" list of very certain books is understandable in my eyes.

    So, does that mean you monitor IP addresses of those who access the same content off an off-coast web site as well?

    The problem is that the gun is a physical object. Making a copy would be very expensive (though not outright impossible) and "isn't worth it" for most people. Information (and that's what we're really talking about here - the "book" is just a medium) is easily able to be duplicated, making monitoring them impractical.

    If such "red-flags" were implemented, I guarantee the information would just move to another medium.

    --

    Sleep is just a poor substitute for caffeine, anyway. -Bob Lehmann