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Segway Getting Real-Life Tests
EReidJ writes: "washingtonpost.com (no registration required) has an article on real-life use of the new Segway scooters, including an update on some of the safety issues and where state laws currently are with use of the Segway. (20 states have specifically passed laws to allow the Segway on sidewalks.) Interesting read."
Those of us in the northern portion of the country are still screwed. Here in Wisconsin, these things would never work on an icy sidewalk.
Anyone try riding a bicycle on ice?
An amazing technological achievment no doubt, but I'm worried about the practicality.
Dude, I think I can see my house from here.
at toll free 800-544-3746 or local 818-882-2878. Call them and find out the details. :-)
It even has a feature where you can key in your ZIP code and it will give you the nearest dealer, and ETA for shipment (avg. 6 months or so). You can also call to be put on their mailing list.
This one should work better.
Aren't some sidewalks (NYC, SF) crowded and dangerous enough as it is, as far as bumping into people and such?
Imagine making those everyday collisions with fellow 'pedestrians' when one of you is moving at twelve and a half miles an hour. I foresee dislocations, damaged merchandise, and god forbid one of these cops happens to do one of those fruit stand smash-ups so popular in the film industry.
I'm all for a new, efficient means of transport, but these things need their own lanes of travel, like some cities have provided for bicyclists.
sig-free as of 28 July 02!
In my hometown, and older woman was killed when hit by a mountain bike. In fact, this has happened multiple times. And mountain bikes are not allowed on the sidewalk. Segways are heavier and faster than mountain bikes, this just seems really dangerous to me.
Websurfing: The Next Generation - StumbleUpon
As I understand it, you move forward by leaning foward. The segway moves forward to stay underneath you which keeps you from falling over. Like walking, it is a controlled fall. But there is also a built in speed limit, so if you lean forward too far (trying to go faster) the Segway would not be able to keep up and you would keep leaning farther until your face meets the sidewalk (presumably while going around 12 mph). Does anyone know what keeps it from doing this?
In states that haven't explicitly allowed these bugges on the sidewalks, can you use them in bikelanes? What conditions does your vehicle need to meet to be a bike? How about a moped or something of that nature- open, wheeled, anything else?
Popular Science also has an article that has a mini-interview with one of the mail carriers who put Segway through a real-life test for 30 days.
(and before anyone whines about their city not having enough bike lanes... here is yet another incentive to add some)
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Is it all just a load of local lobbyists pressing the city councils? It seems to me like there's enough hype/marketing here to choke a whole herd of horses.
Anyone else suspect this'll become a new Xtr3me Sp0rt,
as soon as Segway prices drop to the $300 range ?
>;k
"These weigh 69 to 95 pounds, depending on the model, can carry a person up to 250 pounds plus cargo up to 75 pounds. With that much mass, even traveling at 12.5 miles an hour, the virtual laws of physics say they won't be able to stop on a dime."
Apparantly, we've been scammed by educators everywhere.
I'm a Mech-E student at the University of New Hampshire, just 40 minutes from Segway's and DEKA's headquarters, and we just had a demo here the other day by some of the engineers who work on it.
I must say, I was impressed.
First, if you're riding a segway at it's top speed of about 14 MPH, you can stop in about 15 feet- a runner going that fast takes about 20 feet to stop.
Second, the junior engineer there, a year out of UNH, made a point of running over the senior engineers toes many times. No injury, he was walking around fine.
Third, he also made a point of running into the senior engineer a number of times. Getting hit by one of those things is no worse then getting hit by someone who weighs 75 pounds more then you do.
It turns on a dime, stops and starts quick, is highly manuevarable, and very easy to use- they let a couple of my proffessors check it out. I wouldn't have any problem sharing a sidewalk with it. It has a number of stopping, size, and manuvering advantages over roller skates and bicycles, wich aren't allowed on most sidewalks.
That being said, it looks like an amusing toy with some very good aplications, but I don't think it's going to revolutionize transportation outside of a few circles.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
I don't want to come off as a morbid bastard, but how well protected is a rider during a crash? I mean, if the Segway is controlled with gyros that sense little weight shifts of the rider, in a crash, wouldn't the rider toppling off cause a shift in balance and accidentally cause the thing to tip over the wrong way? And how well do the pieces of the machine attach together -- in a head-on collision, are we supposed to expect the riders to kiss in mid-air, fall flat on their asses with the scooter toppling on them afterwards, or do they just get mercifully impaled by the handle bars? Why are we, as the public, and potentially stupid customers, not informed of matters of such importance, and more specifically, why are there no tutorials on doing donuts with Segways?
"Why are Segways different from bikes, Rollerblades and scooters, which are not permitted on sidewalks in many cities?"
And that's why they belong on the bicycle-lane!!!
What do you mean, your cities don't have bicycle-lanes? Maybe the problem isn't "Get laws passed for segfaults on sidewalks", but it should be "how to get more bicycle lanes!"?
Edwin
bash$
As it currently stands (no pun intended, the Segway's weight of 65 pounds is just a bit too much for what it does. Also, the Segway can't be collapsed so it fits in smaller spaces.
I think a company like Dahon (who specializes in collapsible bicycles) should work with Dean Kamen to design a scooter with Segway technology that can be easily collapsed into a small carrying package and also weigh at most 28-30 pounds. Something like that would sell like ice cream in summer, in my opinion.
I had the opportunity to ride the Segway at the TED conference in Monterey a few months ago, and was quite impressed. It feels a bit like water skiing; takes a minute to get your "sea legs," then it's completely intuitive. Right now, there are no "gears"; you just lean forward or backward and it goes. This seemed to be a bit of a problem getting on and off the thing; I'd like to see a "Neutral" gear, where it tries to stay as motionless as possible, balancing upright. In fact, in this mode, a person could probably do a handstand on the handlebars and it would continue to balance itself!! (Cirque du Soleil, anyone?)
;-)
Also, perhaps separate "Drive" and "Reverse" modes might be called for, where it goes only forwards or only backwards (unless needed for balancing). And currently, a hard rotational twist at high speed will flip the thing. There must be some way to detect radial acceleration and ease up when it gets to a dangerous point... I understand the need for linear response, like a car steering wheel has, but note that a car is more likely to skid (not flip) if you turn the wheel a little too hard. (I don't think the Segway has enough juice to skid, anyway... and its center of gravity is way too high.) Some sort of governor that kicks in at high radial acceleration and avoids flipping would be a welcome improvement.
Just my two cents... I still want one! (well, perhaps when it comes down to $1000...
Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.
What do you want to know? They're bulky, they move quickly (10+ MPH) and they weigh 80 pounds. You do the math.
There's a good reason that bicycles and skateboards aren't allowed on a goodly portion of sidewalks: they move at a different rate than your average walker.
Easy does it!
This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
Even in milwaukee where you are required to shovel within 24 hrs...there are still places with to much snow for a segway, look at it, it has almost no ground clearance. The tires a large enough that tall bumbs, think like speed bumb, may not be a problem. But snow or tall grass, even with rock hard dirt, would be a problem.
I would counter your thought of a bike on ice...the way the segway works with gyros(I think, never looked at tech specs of it) it might behave better on ice than a bike...it also has a much lower center of gravity, which would also help on ice. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it would be really usable on ice, but I bet it would be better than a traditional bike.
LinuxWorx
Spelling errors are intentional as are gramatical error
I mean, the Segway is neat and all that, but outside of the "Wow, cool!" factor, is there any part of it's design that really screams, "Look! I'm so much better/cheaper/more efficient than a conventional (2 wheels, front and back) motorized scooter?"
;-)
If there is, I don't see it. It's neat, sure. But at root it's just an electric scooter. It could easily be replaced by an 3-wheeled, electric cart, motorized skateboard, electric bike or powered roller skates; all of which would be a lot cheaper to produce.
I would think it would be better to change the laws to allow all small motorized vehicles, 2, 3 & 4 wheels, on the sidewalks and bike paths.
I haven't seen the laws that were passed, but doesn't it seem odd to pass a law just to help a single product achieve market share? Surely it's vague enough that other small scooters would be allowed rather than just the Segway. If laws are changed just so one guy can make money, I want one changed for me, too.
It seems like the only thing that the Segway does that other scooters don't (outside of the self balancing bit), is put money in Kamen's pocket.
Maybe I'm just in a bad mood, it's been a long day.
Beta sux! Join the Slashcott! http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4760465&cid=46173047
Sure everone thinks these are neat, but so what? The sidewalk is for people on foot. Time and time again they have rejected the idea of letting skaters, skate board, bikes, and so on, on public sidewalks. Why? Because they interfere with people trying to walk on them. Now, there's a product that will make lots of money if the law is changed. Surprise, surprise, not only do the pass the law that contradicts all sorts of previous decisions, but they put in an order for several at the highest prices they will ever see.
Damn, I hope they don't agree. The sidewalks are not roads. Don't drive on them.
If this law passes, you've got precident to drive your motorcycle on the sidewalk as well. It's no wider than a segway, and it can be limited to 25MPH. Thats 24MPH faster than rush hour in NY.
Can anyone justify this ruling?
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
They cost a whole lot of money, they take something like 5 hours to recharge, they're not all that fast, and you can't really cary anything more than a briefcase on them. I can see how it's good for the environment, but it's not like they're replacing cars; more than likely they're replacing feet and bikes. What are some of the benefits to springing all that dough on a Segway?
...at an auto show in Atlanta. I only caught the tail end of the presentation and wasn't able to hear the fellow talking, but I have to say that it was an astonishing sight - FINALLY something to really make me think that I'm in the 21st century. From the outside, it really appeared as though the Segway was reading the driver's mind. He also had a little rig set up - imagine a 2" cube with a steep ramp up to one side and another on an adjacent side. He rode it up one ramp (that it did not change attitude in the transition was uncanny to watch), pivoted it to the left, and rode it down the other side.
I am not going to say that this is the answer to all our prayers, but I don't believe that these things are just going to fade away, either.
I can say with confidence that we're going to need sidewalks. Lots of sidewalks. Wide ones. And improved electricity generation and distribution.
Go on, try.
Here is the spiritual predecessor of the Segway, the Sinclair C5. First sold in January 1985 this one-person electric vehicle cost less than $500 and was still an absolute commercial disaster.
Although superficially very different, the C5 and the Segway try to solve similar problems of personal mobility without being a car or motorbike. The Segway is undoubtably more advanced (and several times the price) but like the C5 is: small (one person, no luggage), exposed, slow and makes you look like a dork.
I'm not sure I see why the Segway won't go the same way as the C5. I certainly wouldn't buy any stock in Segway.
Sailing over the event horizon
Not quite up to your specs, but these are pretty cool.
get run over by a car while riding on segway.
"overclock" it to do 60 mph.
put a really large tires and ride over other segway crushing it.
dissect it and puts it's pictures of it's guts online and get slashdotted.
have their segway malfunction and end up doing a cartwheel on a steep sidewalk.
do all sort of cool tricks with it like a freestyle bike.
fall off the thing and get hurt and decides to sue Dean Kamen.
ride segway while drunk as a skunk and get charged with DWI.
have their segway run out of battery on the side of the road and have to call AAA to tow it.
hit a pedestrian.
hit a pedestrian and run off.
have their segway tiretracks link them to a crime they committed.
find their segway minus wheels sitting on concrete blocks on the side of the road.
steal it.
get caught trying to steal it.
track down a stolen segway by using hidden GPS.
strap a jet rocket and attempt to break segway land speed record.
----
jk
Here's my issue. I'm in the rightmost CAR lane, and I want to make a right turn. There is a bike lane to my right with a guy that wants to go straight.
Collision.
Bzzzt. The bicyclist is going straight and has the right of way. If you hit him, it's your fault. It's the same thing as saying "I'm in the left of 2 car lanes, and I want to make a right turn. There is another car lane to my right with a guy that wants to go straight. Collision." Obviously this is somewhat different, since an aware driver would have put himself into the right lane long before the turn, but the point remains: the vehicle/bike/whatever going straight has the right of way. Or further, what if it was a pedestrian crossing the road that you're turning right onto? Would you hit him too?
Think of it, not too long ago this mystery device proclaimed to be the revolution of personal transportation was unveiled. The press ate it up!
For months all you heard about was "what's Ginger?" Kamen's true genius is marketing.
Now you're seeing the benefit of that pre-emptive strike on the public. People are pumped about this and they've only seen it in pictures.
NYPOST.COM Business:
NYC HALTS NEW SCOOTER By DOUGLAS WIGHT and FRANKIE ENDOZIEN
Tue Dec 4 09:41:06 2001
Matt Burns, a spokesman for the Department of Motor Vehicles, said: "From my understanding, it is designed for sidewalk use, and that would be a violation of vehicular traffic law since you cannot have motorized vehicles on the sidewalk."
Anyone caught using a Segway on the sidewalk would be ticketed, he said.
Apparently, the taxpayers are paying the salery of a government employee who is 'loaned' to DEKA to make suggestions about the segway.
Why are we subsidising them? I don't want my tax money going to Dean Kamen.
From the WP article:
Segway asked the CPSC to review the scooter, and the agency suggested that the handlebars, which were turned up, be reversed so they wouldn't catch the straps of women's purses. It also urged Segway to enclose the wheels so toes and fingers couldn't be caught in the spokes. Both were done.
Ronald Medford, the staff member who made these suggestions, has taken a government-approved sabbatical to work for Kamen's firm, DEKA Research & Development Corp., which created Segway. Medford is the "in-house critic and adviser, having nothing to do with sales and marketing, but only telling us what to do to make products safe," said Gary Bridge, Segway's senior vice president of marketing.
To avoid conflict of interest, Bridge said, the government continues to pay Medford's salary ($138,200 a year) and Medford has promised to recuse himself from any product decisions involving DEKA and Segway when he returns to the CPSC later this year.
They are planning to release a much cheaper "educational" version of the Segway, as they realize that it's too expensive for the consumer market.
It's called feet.
Apparently, rather than the gyroscopes, you would have a different kind of engine powered by "anti-laziness" energy with a special "work-->physical fitness" converter.
Man is it really starting to feel like the 21st century!!
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
The correct thing to do in this situation is to first merge right (giving cyclists already there the right of way, just as if you're doing a regular lane merge), and then take the right turn. But then some cyclists who think bike lanes are *never* to be used by cars get mad at you. The whole situation is a confusing to everyone, which is why I prefer to just bike on the road and ride like a regular vehicle--then we all understand the rules.
But those separate thoroughfares are still going to have to intersect the regular road system at regular intervals, and getting those intersections right is really important--intersections are where most accidents happen. Try to work out how to have two entirely separate road systems superimposed on each other with safe intersections that don't cause everyone concerned unnecessary delays, and you'll quickly realize it's not worth the trouble.
Just think of bikes as skinny little cars, and everything will make more sense.
--Bruce Fields
Seriously, though, I can see these as useful for the mobility-impaired who can stand, for riding around in huge warehouses, and for moving over difficult terrain. But as fellow /.ers have pointed out, a bicycle is a lot cheaper than $5,000. Want a smaller footprint? Try a unicycle.
Have you ever tried steering a bicycle that has its front wheel centre locked?
Well guess what? You can ACTUALLY steer it by leaning.
Electrically assisted bicycles like this are in a legal limbo: you can't legally use them on bike paths in many places, you can't ride them as fast as a bicycle, and some variants require motorcycle licenses. Yet, they are suitable and highly efficient for travel and commuting.
Similarly, innovative scooters like the BMW C1 (a scooter with a secure passenger cell) fail to get approval in the US, even though they passed lots of safety and real-world tests in Europe.
Yet, a high-tech gizmo like the Segway just breezes through regulatory approvals, probably based on the excellent marketing and celebrity endorsements behind it. First, drivers have to engage in an arms-race with SUVs on the road; will pedestrians now all have to upgrade to Segways in order to use sidewalks safely?
This Segway, if it becomes popular, will eliminate the last little bit of exercise people get: Pedestrian travel. Boy, we're gonna get even fatter!! :-P
It might be a little easier to control than a bike, but not by much. Going very slow (ie. the 12 miles an hour that the Segway advertises) I can turn pretty damn sharp on a bike.
Anyway, these things will be probably banned from sidewalks soon anyway. It is hard to manuever a crowded sidewalk without hitting people when you are walking. Imagine trying to do so on a Segway travelling at jogging speed. It would be very difficult.
The good old bicycle is faster, cheaper, healthier, and almost as maneuverable.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
" If this were such a great idea, wouldn't cars have had these a long time ago?"
If great ideas drove the car market, cars would be far more sophisticated than they are today. Notice we're all still driving cars that require gas...
"Derp de derp."
Slashdot really has to stop taking out my favorite news source (washingtonpost.com) especially because I'm now 3000 miles from home and no longer subscribe!
Let's see how this gets modded:
Rolling Right Along
Scooter Meets Few Obstacles, but Safety Issues Grow
By Caroline E. Mayer
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, April 25, 2002; 10:45 AM
Segway, the high-tech scooter that's been hailed as the future of personal transportation, can travel only 12.5 miles per hour, but it has been winning access to the nation's sidewalks with lightning speed.
In the four months since the heavily touted invention was unveiled to the public, 20 states, including Virginia, have passed laws to allow the Human Transporter, as the scooter is sometimes called, to be used on sidewalks.
Similar laws are awaiting the governor's signature in Maryland and two other states, while 16 states and the District are scheduled to consider the issue by the end of the year.
Today, the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works also approved on a voice vote a measure that would allow the Segway to be used on sidewalks and bike paths built with federal funds--as long as local authorities agree.
The Segway looks like a rotary lawn mower, but is powered by a battery, stabilized by gyroscopes and has 10 computers that keep it balanced. The rider stands on a platform over its single axle and steers with a set of handlebars, leaning forward to move ahead and leaning back to slow down.
Its inventor, Dean Kamen, is an engineering legend with more than 150 patents, many for medical devices such as the infusion pump that allows diabetics to lead more normal lives, a wheelchair that climbs stairs and a heart stent now used by Vice President Cheney. Kamen was selected to receive the prestigious $500,000 Lemelson-MIT prize for inventors last night.
While Segway is being tested--and heartily applauded--by the Postal Service, the Atlanta police force and General Electric Co., a small but growing number of medical experts, traffic engineers, consumer advocates and community activists are concerned about their use on sidewalks.
"I'm not against Segway devices--they're phenomenally innovative and exciting--but I'm concerned that if we allow [them] onto sidewalks, this will be a major injury waiting to happen," said Gary Smith, director of the Center for Injury Research and Policy at the Columbus Children's Hospital in Ohio.
"These weigh 69 to 95 pounds, depending on the model, can carry a person up to 250 pounds plus cargo up to 75 pounds. With that much mass, even traveling at 12.5 miles an hour, the virtual laws of physics say they won't be able to stop on a dime."
Charles Trainor, chief traffic engineer for Philadelphia, is equally concerned. "Our sidewalks are pretty crowded now, even without a Segway, and some of our center-city streets aren't wide enough" to accommodate pedestrians and the new scooter, he said.
The District's acting director of transportation, Dan Tangherlini, said, "We'll certainly have to look at all the safety and traffic concerns that are raised. But we look at anything that moves people out of their vehicles and has a potential to reduce congestion as a good thing."
The scooter "is not intended to be used on public roads and highways," said Brian C. Toohey, Segway's vice president for international and regulatory affairs. If it were, it would need turn signals and rear-view mirrors among other features, he said. Rather, "we believe it is primarily a consumer product that should be used on sidewalks."
Toohey concedes that it was unusual for the company to seek regulatory approval--both from U.S. regulators and from state legislatures--before selling the product to the public. "We're simply being proactive and had quite a lot of success," he said. "What we've done is show the product, demonstrate it, and let them [the legislators] experience it. When we've done that, people get big smiles on their faces, and they become very supportive."
Toohey said the company spent less than $1 million to hire lobbyists and get the state approvals passed.
But a coalition of consumer advocates asked the Senate committee to delay a vote on its bill until hearings could be held to weigh the safety issues. "Why are Segways different from bikes, Rollerblades and scooters, which are not permitted on sidewalks in many cities?" the groups asked.
The measure was introduced by Sen. Robert C. Smith, Republican of New Hampshire, where Segway LLC is headquartered. Committee aides said no hearing was needed because the legislation only involves a technical change to complement laws already passed by the states.
Erik Smulson, spokesman for the committee, said it is not unusual for it to vote on bills without holding hearings. Smith said safety issues are the responsibility of the Senate Commerce Committee, not his panel.
Originally known by the code names "It" and "Ginger," the Segway was touted by supporters as a more important development than the personal computer, the Internet, or even the car.
Before the product was publicly unveiled, the company requested--and received--letters from federal safety regulators about how it would be regulated. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said that since it would be considered similar to a motorized wheelchair, NHTSA would not regulate it. But the Consumer Product Safety Commission's attorney concluded that the Segway could be considered a consumer product and thus subject to his panel's jurisdiction.
Segway asked the CPSC to review the scooter, and the agency suggested that the handlebars, which were turned up, be reversed so they wouldn't catch the straps of women's purses. It also urged Segway to enclose the wheels so toes and fingers couldn't be caught in the spokes. Both were done.
Ronald Medford, the staff member who made these suggestions, has taken a government-approved sabbatical to work for Kamen's firm, DEKA Research & Development Corp., which created Segway. Medford is the "in-house critic and adviser, having nothing to do with sales and marketing, but only telling us what to do to make products safe," said Gary Bridge, Segway's senior vice president of marketing.
To avoid conflict of interest, Bridge said, the government continues to pay Medford's salary ($138,200 a year) and Medford has promised to recuse himself from any product decisions involving DEKA and Segway when he returns to the CPSC later this year.
Segway has a video of the scooter with snow tires.
It looks pretty stable, amazingly enough. For the bucks, I'm sticking with my bike.
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
Toohey said the company spent less than $1 million to hire lobbyists and get the state approvals passed.
but somehow this line just doesn't seems right to me, especially in a supposedly corruption free democratic government... or is it just me?
geek page at KY speaks
How long will a Segway HT last?
:).
In order to deliver a durable business productivity tool, we pursued two design avenues. First, we built durable mechanical and electrical systems to be in solid state, so even the moving parts were designed for longevity. For example, the motors are brushless servomotors, so there are no parts that could wear out. We then submitted the systems to extensive, rigorous testing to ensure we met our goals. Second, we created a modular design whereby if any part were to wear out or break, it could easily be replaced, ensuring a long product life.
In other words, we have no f'in clue, and we don't feel like saying something actually helpful like, its under warrantee for 20 years, for example. Nono, be safe with the knowledge that if something breaks on you thousand dollar scooter that the only place you will be able to fix it is here, and we like to make money
Why is he trying to market these things in the US? I would think that the prime market to a product like the Segway would be in Euope or Japan. Us Americans (North Americans:) have a huge love affair with our obscenely big cars, I frankly find it disturbing when in the middle of massive traffic conjestion companies still market wide tracks! If you want to make it into a market why not go for Europe where they already have Smart Cars (really really small cars) and lots of cyclists. The culture there is ready to accept a product like this. I believe Japan too would have a strong market for this having extremely dense population centers. Americans have simply shown time and tmie again that we are not willing to give up our massive cars and I frankly do not see why he isn't pushing this stronger overseas (or at least why we're not hearing about it).
I stole this Sig
...a skateboarding teenage geek and segway-riding, sidewalk hogging suit?
A.: about $70k per year and the law on their side.
But in countless states, including my state of Virginia, it is still illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk. I've had a problem for years with this, but now they're letting this MOTOR-POWERED vehicle on the sidewalks. Hey, House of Burgesses, get your god damn shit together. Its a shame to see the oldest democratic body in the nation still outlaws bikes on the sidewalks, especially of busy areas where us riders can't quite match the 45 (+5 over) that the drivers tend to do on the streets. Shizzy!
what happens when the Segway reaches it maximum speed?
It doesn't.
It is programatically speed-limited so it always has enough reserve speed to beat your attempt to lean forward.
Ever do judo? There's a move called okuri ashi harai (sending foot sweep), in which you get a person moving in one direction, then sweep his feet out in that same direction. By moving his feet forward, past his center of gravity, you make him fall over backwards even though he's still moving forwards. The fall feels a little bit like sliding into home base.
That's what the Segway does, but with the intent of moving your feet back under your center of gravity.
Remember, unless you're accelerating, you're not going to actually be leaning your center of mass in front of your feet, or you'd be falling over. You just have your body configuration like you'd be leaning forward if you were standing on the ground, but when it accelerated, the Segway rotated the base you're standing on so you became balanced once more.
And in any balance situation, it always keeps enough acceleration potential to kick your feet back under you (and as far in front of you as it needs to slow you down or stop you), no matter how hard you (as a mere human) try to throw yourself in front of your feet.
In many European cities the town centres are declared pedestrian zones, so there're no cars (and no congestion). One could do something similar for the segway: declare the city centre a pedestrian/segway zone, and the sidewalks themselves a purely pedestrian zone. Elsewhere, as has been amply pointed out, one could limit segways to bicycle paths.
Basically, there are three categories of traffic: (1) cars and motorbikes, (2) bicycles and segways, (3) pedestrians or skaters. To some extent, zoning already exists for these three categories, with some overlap (bicylces are allowed on roads, for example). Segways only require a slight elaboration of this.
"...Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"
Can you just imagine a cop jumping off one of these things to chase down a criminal?
"Awright, buddy, come back with me to my, uh... Now where did my Segway go?"
"Anyone try riding a bicycle on ice?"
I rode my bike 2 miles each way from home to lab every day, rain, snow or shine on Michigan State's campus when I was in graduate school. What finally did me in was that in an attempt to avoid a patch of ice, I slid into an even bigger patch of ice, and took a header. A spiral fracture in one of the bones in my left hand kept me off the bike for a few weeks, and in driving to work, I realized how nice it was not to be out in the weather all the time.
I think about that everytime I'm tempted to get a motorcycle, and it's gotta be a major concern for Segway sales. Maybe these will be like all those motorcycles in garages all over America, taken out a few times a year for a joyride when the weather is nice, and you know you won't be dtopping to pick up any groceries on the way home, but not relied on for any serious transportation needs.
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
I mean, if this thing is a huge failure, the coolness of him speaking at my commencement this year just won't have the same ring to it.
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
the reverse is also true, and causes way more trouble: cyclers passing cars on the left side when there's a bicycle lane(yes, that's legal). cars get mad at cyclers all the time, and drivers tend to think they own the road, just cos in a crash they're not going to get hurt as much as the cycler. as for the seperate roads for bicycles; this is commonplace in much of the netherlands, and works WAY better then a lane for cyclists. cuts down on a lot of accidents.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Just think of bikes as skinny little cars, and everything will make more sense.
An excellent idea - how can we get the blasted bike riders to get that through their skulls? I've seen so many bike riders in their little spandex suits zipping along the country roads around my house ignoring every stop sign so they don't ruin their workout. They're in their own little world (or 'zone', probably), and consider themselves above the law and not a 'narrow car'.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Actually there's a video out there of the Segway and how it performs on ice and snow. Check the Segway website. I doubt that it would peform well in heavy snow for the reasons you mentioned but it appears to work fine in a lighter snowfall.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
Yeah, it's a pain for other bikes too--just the other day I had a close call with some bike at a 4-way stop; I stopped and waited my turn, and then as I was crossing he came blasting through in the other direction, out from behind a line of cars that he'd passed on the right. Ugh. Some bike riders are their own worst enemies....
--Bruce Fields
Based on what I've seen and what I believe about the behavior of the device, I think controllability is not an issue. The only argument I have along these lines is the lack of a dead-man switch (which I'm not even sure is absent from the design)--I forsee a "news of the weird" clip about someone passing out/having a seizure/dying on a Segway and plowing through a crowd. The other thing that is somewhat disconcerting is that these things just stop when they break or when the battery dies. Of course, that wouldn't be my problem as a pedestrian, only a problem for the person-minus-three-grand who has to "Gingerly" tote around 75 extra pounds.
What I do think is the problem is the same one that is really the reason bicycles, inline skates and scooters are banned on sidewalks, and even the reason that joggers and runners are disliked: When someone is walking, they don't want to be concerned with what's behind me.
It is well established on the road that the driver of each vehicle is responsible for controlling their own force vector. In non-pseudo-intelectual-nerd-speak, they're responsible for not running into things in in the direction they're moving. There are rules in place (i.e. speed limits) that let people relax and not concern themselves with stuff going on behind them [for the most part anyway.] As long as people follow those two rules, things go really quite well.
On the sidewalk, however, the same rules are implied but not enforced. As long as a sidewalk is populated by people walking, they have an assumed speed limit (the vaguely defined "walking speed") that allows each pedestrian to ignore what's going on behind them. For the most part, if I'm on the sidewalk and I want to go from the right side, all the way to the left side, I can basically do it without so much as a glance to my left to make sure I don't walk right into someone.
However, if there were vehicles or people who were going faster than myself, I need to look further back before changing direction. By my estimate, even if you could assume that the sidewalk speed limit was only twice as fast as your own speed, you'd be pretty stressed about not stepping a few inches out of a straight trajectory for fear of getting hit. As a cyclist, I know that applies on the road--my speed is typically half that of cars on residential streets, and I pay attention to not deviating more than a few inches from a straight line and pray that the driver doesn't hit me anyway. When the speed difference is greater (i.e. 3x) it gets pretty terrifying.
Now, if only we could change the world and make everyone responsible for their own actions and concerned for the well being of their fellow man ... ha ha ha ha ha. Oh, I slay me.
--- Jason Olshefsky
Karma: Poser (mostly affected by adding this line long after everyone else did)
First, segways and pedestrians don't mix. A 12 mph hit is harder than any WWF or football tackle you've ever seen. And don't tell me it can't/won't happen. The state will be lucky if they don't get their asses sued off for such a dumb decision. Somebody made a good point-- Bikes are treated as vehicals (albeit differently), the segway should likewise.
The only solution I can think of... Is take lane space away from cars gradually in areas you want to convert to segway only use. This would have the short to long term issue of massive traffic congestion as everybody has a car. Expanding a roadway would serve only to increase taxes to support the project. Both solutions will draw heavy critism from motorist (a large majority of the population who have already shelled out $10,000-50,000 on a mode of transportation.)
The primary problem as I see it is that we need a working alternate energy plan. This Segway conversion project would be a whole lot easier if we did. Sadly, we have only piecemeal. Regardless; nobody wants to give up their cars because in the long term, simply because they are all around more useful than a segway. I can go cross country AND commute within a city in mine. I can travel in nearly any weather. Transverse moderately rough terrain. I can only use a Segway in a city for it to be useful. Yes, you could put parking lots outside a city, but then you'd have to clear massive space to support the sheer number of commuters coming into the city and getting on their segway. Who's suburb is that going to be? Yours?
People are focusing on the problems because the solutions are even more unwieldy that what we have going on now...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
that makes ginger even mildly useful is all of the wheelchair-accessibility ramps that have been built into side walks over the last 30 years. From a regulatory point of view, it seems not much different than a motorized wheelchair, at 2-3x the privice. This is within other the vanity price range speaking, a motorized chair seems more useful, as there's some cargo capacity. You could imagine a "motor platform" with four wheels like a wheelchair, and it wouldn't have ginger's gyro complications (or coolness). Why might ginger cost more to manufacture than a wheel chair? I dunno. Composites? Gyros? Amortised cost of molds? (Ignoring development cost) -dB
"It if was easy to do, we'd find someone cheaper than you to do it."
After all the "No Skateboarding/Bicycling/Rollerskating" signs I have seen around various towns, why would so many cities specifically allow these things on sidewalks by passing laws saying so?
Skateboards and rollerskates have no concept of brakes, which makes them unsuitable for pedestrianised areas. Bicycles are large and travel very fast, and are therefore deemed more suitable to share the road with other vehicles rather than with pedestrians. The Segway has a restricted speed, small footprint and is able to brake rapidly. On balance it is more suited to the sidewalk than the road. It doesn't seem like a great conspiracy to me, just common sense. As for specifically being mentioned in a law, if your local postal service is going to be using them then you want to makes sure their path is clear (excuse pun).
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
I do care about useless technology that servers no purpose other than to make some "inventor" rich. All he has to do is convince people that scooting along at 7 mph is better than getting their own asses in gear.
Fat and lazy is bad. Not wanting society to turn into a bunch of weaklings who can't walk a few blocks is a hell of a lot different than anti-vehicle health-obsessed bike-but.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
Go here for the specifications of the Segway. Quite interesting.
Of those /.ers out there that *have* ridden a Segway, who thinks that they're too dangerous for a sidewalk, given that the following is now allowed:
:-)
- jogging
- baby strollers
- jogging with baby strollers
I've tried one out; I think they would be acceptable on sidewalks. You can't compare them to bicycles, roller blades, skateboards, or scooters. I think anyone that has ridden one would agree that they are completely different.
I dont see the segway being used much out door in a rural environment. I see it being very feasable say in a highrise building say for mail delivery. or say in a very dence urban area. It just woudlnt' make sence in a rural area to say drive to work. unless you work within a mile of home. I would see this also working well in large complex coorperation large warehouses or factories. I used to work at UPS as a child and they had bicycles that could be used to run arrands within the wharehouse. parts of which were over a half a mile long.
They would be very stable on ice if they used studded tires. i am sure one could make chains removable strap on studs which could be used. then taken off when one is inside. install a set of mud gaurds and you woudl be ready to go
You claimed that the Segway is a "vehicle" and a "motor vehicle". I say it isn't.
...prove your case, Mr. Prosecutor...
It's simple English. You ride on it, it was built to ride on from place to place, so it's a vehicle. It's driven by a motor, so it's a motor vehicle.
If you're talking about whether it meets the specialized definition of a motor vehicle in a certain act, that's not what I was arguing. We're talking about whether there's a basis in the common law for regulating this conveyance.
You made slanderous statements that I recklessly endangered other travelers.
You're talking about riding an unfamiliar conveyance through an area intended for foot traffic. This is a hazard by default. If you are arrested on these grounds (which I am not stipulating would be necessary for your arrest), you might have a chance with a positive defense that your conveyance does not impose a significant additional risk on other traffic, but a positive defense puts the burden of proof on you.
You'd lose, anyway, because the destructive potential of a careless Segway rider is greater than that of a careless person walking, by virtue of added mass and the fact that you don't need to exert an unusual effort to accelerate to a hazardous speed.
We are assuming a warrantless arrest was made (California vehicle code 40300 or your state's equivalent)
Oh, "we" are? I have been assuming no such thing. Unless you have a very good reason why we must in this case, you're just baselessly insisting on
If the position is that it's a hazard (again, not stipulating), its use disturbs the peace, just like waving a gun around, even if you don't fire it.
Now, what you're doing here is trying to shift the burden of proof onto me, by putting me into the role of prosecutor. Then you're changing the argument to all of these fine points of specific laws.
But I'm not the prosecutor, I'm not an accuser, I'm a challenger of your unorthodox claim that the government has no right to regulate Segway traffic, despite the well-known precedents of them successfully regulating any other form of conveyance they please. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof must rest on you.
And, to be frank, you're being a crackpot. Listen to yourself, your argument is taking the form of: "First put this obvious practical consideration aside, next put that generally-accepted fact aside unless you can prove it to my satisfaction, now you take the general burden of proof against my strange claim..."
Crackpotism is a terrible habit to fall into. Sensible people learn to ignore you and you end up spending all your time arguing with other crackpots who each put the burden of proof on each other, make noises back and forth, then walk away each feeling that they won the "debate." Knock it off. It's not good for you.
Now it's true that you put it in the form of a question, but the uncertainty in that question relies on an assumption that references a familiar (utterly crackpot) misconception of legal rigidity. I moved to dismiss the question by attacking that foundation (first, and most importantly, the rigid theory of law deriving strictly from an unbroken chain to ancient laws of other countries does not accurately describe the process by which laws are made or dismissed, regardless of how much tidier this might seem; second, even this ancient principle of the right to use public easement for private travel was never free from restrictions on the mode of transportation, in particular ones against established custom and introducing an additional hazard), and you moved to champion your bizarre structure of assumptions (however incompetently) by demanding I disprove it before we continue.
I'm not here to prove the conventional wisdom to your satisfaction. Your strange and interesting assumption attracted me to try and throw a monkey wrench into it, and see whether you can produce any support for it. If your response to such an attack, as its only present promoter, is to shift the burden of proof (and thus change your position from "this is true" to "this has not been proven untrue"), it is no longer even an interesting claim, but an undistinguished possibility among infinite possibilities. A waste of time.
Your unsupported assumptions are no longer even interesting. You certainly shouldn't expect a more direct response just because you complain that you aren't getting an answer that accepts your unsupported assumptions.
I would really like an answer better than "because we say so".
When it comes right down to it, all law is ultimately based on, "because we say so," backed up with the threat of violent retribution. Different laws and principles of law are just seperated from this by greater or lesser degrees of derivation. There's a principle that it's better if you can introduce new laws and principles as non-contradictory clarifications of old, established principles, but it's not an absolute requirement that must be followed in an unbroken chain to the country's founding. Last year's precedent is more relevant and valid than one that's two-hundred years old, even if they are contradictory and that means there's a break in the chain of derivation where someone just said, "because I said so," and everybody who mattered eventually went along with it.
If there was ever any question of whether government has the right to regulate any and all modes of transportation on public paths and roads, it was solved in this manner a long time ago. Whether the government could have done it 200 years ago is a moot point.
If that's unsatisfying for you, too damn bad. This is real life, not some abstract logic game. Apply some common sense!