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Is Verizon Up to Speed?
Dejected @Work writes "IBM developerWorks just ran this article on Verizon's partial 3G network set up in some areas of the US, most of the North East. The article goes into some good technical background about these fatter pipes called Express Network. Has anyone tried this out?"
Verizon dosen't have a 3G network.
Good for Verizon they at least gotto market with their 3G systems. I work in Telecom and most of our clients are European Telcom majors and they have spent so much on licenses they are now too cash poor to implement the system itself. And of course in this market they cant raise the money from stock
**Life is too short to be serious**
Sure, it's nice having the extra speed, but until I can get always-on access, I'll stick with Mobile Office, which is free.
How annoying those "Can you hear me now?" commecials are, I would have more faith in the company.
Yet another signature that refers to itself. The irony and humor is dead.
I'd rather have Verizon working on keeping their current basic land-based stuff working - save the new stuff until they can figure out how to reliably keep a point-to-point T1 from fouling up once a month (and yes, so far it's always been Verizon's fault)...
But I'm not bitter...
It says up to 144 Kbps but with this disclaimer and no further explanation I wonder how fast it really is: 'The Express Network is capable of data speeds bursting up to 144 Kbps. You will experience slower data speeds dependent on network and equipment capabilities and other variables of wireless service.'
Sounds promising...
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
144kbps theoretical max. Wonderful stuff, you can even watch streaming movies. At 10 megabytes for $35, that's $3.69 a minute for that streaming movie. Still interested?
Would somebody please tell me what tangible benefits there are to a 3G network? I understand there is a higher transfer rate, but this is meaningless to me until there are services available that warrant it. Checking stock quotes through my cell phone only has limited appeal to me, same thing for email or instant messaging, and these functions are available on existing networks, anyway.
I guess my real question is: In areas where 3G has been rolled out, what services are available/are popular? 3G is touted as being the Next Big Thing in wireless, but I have yet to see anything that makes me get all that excited.
I know we have had WAP for a long time but now true mobile Internet will arrive. Wonder what would happen to a site which gets Slashdotted from wireless phones.
**Life is too short to be serious**
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
According to this article
"Shauna Smith, a wireless industry analyst with ARS Inc., said the Verizon Wireless launch this week was a disappointment for the industry and users looking to capitalize on 3G.
(Verizon Wireless officials) say the maximum speeds that they provide are 144 Kbps, but actual speeds are 40 to 60 Kbps, which really qualifies it as a 2.5G technology, but it is not technically 3G yet," she said. "What we're looking for in 3G is speeds around 2 Mbps, but we won't see that kind of speed until 2003 or 2004 before we starting touching (that speed). "
so looks like "3G" is still a overhyped buzzword and not reality yet
Besides having the really annoying "Can You Hear Me Now" commercials, this will probably end up being a bad idea.
The way these things work is that it can allow 1 phone to use up to 6 phones worth of airway resources. Now, during peak times, it's hard to get cell phones out. Now imagine that a large portion of the population is using more than one share worth of resources. I wonder how much incentive Verizon will have to increase their resources by 3-6x.
I bet this will be damn expensive for about 5-10 years, then we'll get "unlimited downloads" on weekends/nights, etc, until cellular data rates approach current voice deals..
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
It should be noted up front that Verizon predicts 40-60 kbps will be the initial routinely obtained transfer rate in Express Network service, that is, the same as one would expect from a current V.90 dial-up modem. (Still, it's better than 14.4!) The system architecture (currently at the 1X-RTT level) can easily be scaled up to the 3X level, which would give it a 153 kbps transfer rate. The 3X upgrade works by chaining together enough bandwidth for 16 voice calls and delivering them to the same user.
Some of these statements are inaccurate. 1x-RTT offers rates even beyond 153 kbps today. Verizon is choosing to limit speeds within the scope of 1x-RTT, but 153 kbps is certainly available. 3x takes three 1x channels and sandwiches their spectrum offering max speeds in the Mbps range, not kbps. However, almost no one believes 3x will ever happen, since it requires major changes to the RF portion of the network infrastructure (read: megabucks), and of course like 1x, requires brand new hand sets/modem cards. Far from an easy upgrade.
Anybody want a peanut?
whoops i meant 3G, see the buzzword hype is already getting to me
whereas, I routinely got 153 kbps with Ricochet, often exceeding 200 kbpx. I wish they would soon come back!
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I had an opportunity to try out a Laptop that was connected via verizon's new network. The little PC card they supply as an interface option is stinking sexy but that's a separate issue... I would compare the speed to single ISDN. The verizon rep I talked to said the average sustained throughput was 45-65K with the occasional burst to 144K. The brief surfing session I had confirmed that the connection wasn't spectacular. I would say 45-65k is accurate based on my thumb in the air gadge. It does have tangible benifits though. Almost zero wait time to connect, totally wireless and slightly faster then 56k dialup. If travelling was part of my business I would be all over it. Beware of roaming to non-built out areas though: It will work but only at 14.4k.
How does this compare to AT&T's sometime-arriving mlife service, which is DoCoMo or so I hear? I am desparately wanting to buy a new phone but don't wanna get burned on getting rapidly-obsolete technology! Is Verizon's 3G equivalent to mlife?
In Europe we have a system called GPRS which is an enhancement to the existing GSM networks. GPRS gets about 56kbps, although some systems do up to 128kbps I hear (in an ISDN style dual-channel arrangement). In the US though, I hear that GPRS is limited to 19.2kbps-28kbps, which sounds nuts.
Is 3G also limited in the US? The theroetical maximum speed for 3G in Europe and Japan is 384kbps downlink and 64kbps uplink.. which makes 144Kbps mentioned here sounds kinda pathetic. If I were in the US, I'd stick with GPRS, which is pretty cheap and as fast as logging on with my 56.6kbps modem indoors!
CNET has an article comparing cellphone data protocols, although it seems to be using the American data rates and lists GPRS as only able to do 28.8kbps!
mogorific carpentry experiments
Sprint will have a nationwide roll-out of 3G the beginning of this summer, FYI. First provider that will have it with that coverage. Verizon is second closest to rolling it out in more than just test markets.
I do work at Sprint so I'm not just pulling numbers out of the air.
That would all be well and good if Sprint had coverage that included my house!!! I guess Verizon's 2.5G will have to do. Besides, I could go out and get the Verizon setup tonight if I wanted:) //RANT
Important consideration: are new phones required to work with this service, or are all of Verizon's currently-available phones (that support wireless web, which seems to be all of them) compatible?
NTT with their DoCoMo service launched 3G services a few months back.
One cool feature they are offering is if u (and the person u r speaking to) have a mobile phone with a camera and screen u can see the picture of whoever u r speaking to while u speak to them.
Mind u that is a still JPEG not moving video yet but we are getting to mobile video.
**Life is too short to be serious**
I think that maybe the people at the R&D department should take a look at some older technology. High data transfer rates over WAN type distances have been available for a long time; it's just that nobody has implemented it. Hop over to www.skystation.com. There you will find some technology called meteor scatter. This is where they bounce radio signals off the ion trails from tiny meteors hitting and disintegrating in the upper atmosphere.
Next you will be propsing we all line up for ration cards which will have an amount of airtime entered in it for every month and we will only be able to use that much and doesnt matter if we are travelling businessmen or homemakers with a landline in the room.
Of course this will increase traffic and if that leads to downgradation of service then the company really sucks but to blame the technology itself?
I think that runs counter to the free market and the American spirit of enterprise..
**Life is too short to be serious**
Check out www.qualcomm.com/brew and you will understand what 3G and BREW can do for you as a user and a developer.
Sad but true!
**Life is too short to be serious**
Korean wireless carriers deployed the world 1st 3G network and they have signed up the most users too, several millions.
1xRTT is 3G technology, and Korean carriers deployed the 1st 3G networks in the world, and they have managed to sign up the most users.
BREW allows developers to write apps that can be downloaded on to the phone.
Anyone interested in making a few bucks writing wireless software on phones should check out:
http://www.qualcomm.com/brew
What a dream flat rate unlimited usage would be. Does anyone at Verizon know if these sort of rate plans will ever happen? The Express Network just piggybacks off your normal wireless rate plan.
sig is
I stopped by a Verizon store on a whim and found out that the service can be obtained on a trial basis for 14 days, after which you can return the phone for a full refund. I already have Sprint PCS data service on my Motorola StarTAC 7867W and I didn't need the higher speeds, so I opted not to keep the service. Service is $30 for Express Network access (you can still get 14.4Kbps CDMA data without that fee), plus a monthly contract to get minutes which are shared between voice and data usage. The prorated amount for my 14 days of usage was:
- Monthly plan access: $21.77 (14 days of the $45.00 / month plan for 400 anytime minutes)
- Express network: $14.51 (not $30 because I only used it for 14 days)
- 411 charges (I called information a couple times): 3 times at $0.99 each = $2.97
- Taxes: $1.71
- Total: $41.48
They refunded my $150 for the phone and data cable upon return with no hassle.There was only one phone that supported the service at the time, the Kyocera 2235. I noticed that the voice quality was superior to my StarTAC, especially in analog mode. Since I'm a communications specialist, the lack of codec delays in analog mode was immediately apparent and the sound quality seemed superior to CDMA digital mode.
The phone was about $75, and I had to pay an additional ~$70 for the data cable, which was a complete ripoff. The data cable package included the Windows driver CD, instructions, and the USB to phone cable itself. The phone didn't come with a belt clip (which I need when I'm in the field), but had indentations on both sides which makes me think that you could buy a clip that snaps onto the phone.
The windows installation worked fine on my Windows 2000 SP2 partition on my laptop. The initial data transfers seemed to be modem speeds, but then I realized I was being limited by the network at the peer side. I connected to a site I knew was only a few hops away from the Verizon gateway, and wow, it was fast. It started pushing data at about 140Kb/s raw, in addition to the packet headers. I didn't do anything special to get good reception either - it was about 2 signal bars IIRC on the ground floor of a window office in an industrial park.
The phone had a real IP, so I did some latency tests using pings. That resulted in about 300-400ms of delay, similar to a dial-up modem, but far worse than the typical 40-50ms on a BRI ISDN link. I didn't play any games, so couldn't tell you what the interactive performace will be like. SSH responsiveness was similar to a 33.6 modem. Ping times were usually within one standard deviation, although it would occasionally glitch and drop a packet or give me a 3000ms return.
So I tried it under Linux, and found out that the cable wasn't supported. After taking the cable apart, I found out that it contained a Kawasaki KL105 USB to serial chip, which didn't even have a driver written for it. I contacted Kawasaki and got this document which contained the protocol for the chip. Turns out that the chip comes in several different flavors, some with custom firmware loads, all of which have different protocols. I wrote a preliminary Linux driver for the chip, but ran out of time before my 14 days were up. I think that the driver can do data transfers, but the control line code is still kind of screwed up. Email me if you want a copy of the driver source.
The chip provides transfer speeds of up to 230Kbps, which is necessary to support the 153Kbps maximum speed of the network plus the packet overhead from the phone. The phone itself uses 11 pins of it's connector to talk to the chip in the cable. The PCB in the cable wart contains a power jack so you can charge the phone and use the cable at the same time, which is nice because the power connector from the AC adapter is mechanically incompatible with the data cable - you can't have both plugged into the bottom of the phone at the same time. The power lines account for 2 of the eleven pins, and I assume the other 9 are the standard 9 serial pins. Tracing the pins made me think that the UART outputs from the phone were electrically compatible with TIA-232, although I couldn't confirm it for sure.
When I returned the phone, I found that they now have DB-9 serial cables which don't require any special driver software - you just plug one end into the phone and the other end into the computer. Note that this will limit your speed to 100Kbps, because most serial ports have a line rate of 115Kbps, but you have the protocol overhead which will limit you to 100 Kbps given a standard packet size histogram for someone browsing the web. Those cables are still overpriced, so I'd recommend looking on eBay or contacting your local plastic injection firm and asking them if they're interested in a little side business :)
-- thalakan
The last time I looked into TCP/IP over RF, people were arguing that forward error correction was much better than retransmitting, because TCP is happiest with latencies that are relatively consistent and vary relatively slowly.
On a wire, bit errors are almost a non-issue, so TCP assumes that a retransmission is the result of congestion. If you force a retransmission every time a bit is bogus, that assumption is problematic.
The article made it sound like this system relies on NAK-ing and retransmitting packets.
On the lighter side, didja notice that one of the applications listed as finally becoming possible was streaming audio? Just think -- soon we'll be able to get sound over our telephones! Amazing what we can do these days.
Wow, this is great. Now Verizon can fail to deliver my phone calls at even greater rates. They have great commercials but their service leaves much to be desired. My friend and I have fun leaving voice mail messages to each other when we are in the same room with our phones on within sight of two cell towers.
-Nails-
This is an important pubic notice. Putting mobile phones in your front pockets or in your Levi's "Mobile Pants" can give you testicular cancer.
Using the 3G Network will give you cancer 3x faster than current phones. It's also 3x more likely that you will have a child that looks like Bill Gates of Ozzie Osbourne.
Finally, this bill also protect you from talking dirty or sending dirty messages over your cell phone. Please men, talk dirty on the phone, and use those testicles while you still have them!
I signed up for Verizon's Express Network while they were offering the unmetered access promotion in February. The service was $30/mo in addition to a regular calling plan, the cheapest of which at the time was $35/mo as well if I remember correctly. That's $70/mo once the nickel-and-dime taxes and other charges are included.
Objectively, speeds rarely got to 56kbps; I think nothing needs to be said about their fanfared 144kbps. Subjectively, web pages didn't seem to load much faster than they do on Verizon's regular cellular data network.
Browsing the web, checking my email, and making phone calls on my iPaq with the Sierra AirCard in the PCMCIA sleeve was really cool, but there was a problem. The AirCard is not a tri-mode or even a dual-mode cellular device. Translation: don't plan on using the AirCard for trips. It only works on Verizon's digital network, which is not nearly as complete as they would lead you to believe. If you'd like a phone that still functions as you travel around, you either need to buy the Kyocera 1x-RTT phone or activate an entirely separate phone (with analog capability) and account with Verizon. I discovered this fact *after* purchasing the AirCard for $299. Fortunately, Verizon has a 14-day return policy, so I went back and exchanged the card for the Kyocera phone, a data cable, and money.
I never could get my iPaq/Kyocera combination to login to the Express Network, even after three long, drawn-out calls to Verizon customer service. (The combination works flawlessly logging in to a local ISP at 19.2kbps.)
I cancelled my Express Network service. Even unmetered access wasn't worth hanging on to.
I work for Verizon Wireless in Rochester NY. We've been playing around with it, testing it etc... Well, here's the scoop. Right now the speed is about 128K (ISDN speed) and about as expensive. My phone is free because I'm on call 24 x 7 and they want me to support this product. However, they want to charge us, the employees, 30 bucks a month to have it. My boss won't let me expense it and I'm not about to pay for the service. However, the best use I've had with it is when I connect with my laptop and VPN into work. It's actually not too bad. I'm normally a very impatient person but I have to say that even with the encryption overhead, I was able to obtain my mail, logon to the network and even my CISCO softphone worked! (Boss, I'll be working from my pool today.) I did some benchmarks on the speed of the connection and with our special software, we average about 11K to both local broadband access providers. (Basically I ftped a 5 meg picture from my digital camera to both the Time Warner Roadrunner ftp server and Frontier's Lightning link ftp server.)
i had thought better of ozzy than to get mixed up with his type. i guess we all screw up sometimes.
you heard right.
People are asking what the point is...
I was out on a vendor paid yacht race with all of a major US bank's UNIX admins. During the race, a file system filling up triggered an alarm, and the current admin on call was paged. The admin got on his laptop in the galley of the 40m boat, and in the middle of Boston harbor dialed into work. He took 10 minutes fixing the problem and when finished got back to sailing.
Is that not one coolest things you ever heard?
I have GPRS with ATT wireless and I love it. I can get speeds up to 56-65k on my cell phone using my laptop via bluetooth. It makes mobile computing so much better. I just cant wait until we get broadband speeds on cell phones. Also I heard the system ATT is using is a 2.5G network so verizon might be a little bit faster. The cost per MB is still expensive though probably.
but deloreans don't. You should buy me one.
Use any other cell phone company. Verizon screwed over me and several friends.
Please just use another cell phone company they do not care about their customers.
Good.
Give Nextel a try.
Depending on your location you get get pretty decent speeds. It was designed with packet data in mind.
I believe the network is capable of 64kbps, but Nextel might only offer 19.2kbps.
The WAP stuff is all unlimited, and you get get calls when you are using it.
If you sign up for the developer plan you get a routable IP assigned to your phone... pretty cool if you ask me.
Do you remember when the only thing you could get for your new USB port was a USB hub?
SAME SH!T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You need to have infrastructure before companies will invest in creating the killer app.
I wonder who will be the first to write apache for a wireless phone, and then have that phone get slashdotted. At the current rates for 3G, he will have to sell 2 or 3 of his kids to pay his bandwith bill.
I am a full time geek in a RV. My wife and I live full time in a 35 foot RV and operate web sites and do software development.
:)
We carry multiple cell phones, both Verizon and Sprint. We already have the Kyocera 2235 and the Express Network.
We just installed some servers at HE.NET in Fremont and spent a week in the Bay Area using the 3G... we are right now in Portland area (heading our way to Seattle).
The biggest problem: High latency and terrible routing. All the traceroutes go to New York and Back for west coast paths! I was parked in the Hurricane Electric parking lot and the traceroute to my co-located server went to NEW YORK CITY and back!
395ms to ping the local router... so just getting on stinks.
It is better than the 14.4 service - but still has "issues".
Also - Verizon won't let you get the service unless you have a phone in the service area! I have my official residence in Seattle, but I had to get a Portland phone number before they would let me active the service (Express Nework is available in Portland, but not Seattle).
Bleeding edge
Sprint's plan is to turn on nationwide all at once in July. Can't wait.
Also, this is a 3G network. See the other articles I just mentioned for more info.
This has been discussed here several times before. See this article and this one.
By the way, I have been installing these networks for Sprint, Verizon and a few other smaller service providers for about the last year. So, of course I have tested them dozens of times. The actual throughput is usually about 8-9KB/s. In an area where the signal is strong and the cell does not have a whole lot of other traffic these rates go up to more like 11-12KB/s. The amount of traffic on a cell will impact these speeds because the burst rate is negotiated between the switch, cell and CPE and depends on the amount of data being transfered and the available resources on the cell. Bursts typically last about 5 seconds and then have to be negotiated again. So, this system can use a lot of resources but will only use them when they are available.
Also, this is 3G. See the articles I just mentioned for a lot more info.
Alas, that was not the correct interpretation.
i dont mean to flame, but the is2000 specs is a real good read b4 u guys start giving ur $0.02 ...
who cares what u call this, 2g, 2.5g or 3g. what we have now is is2000 in bits and pieces, and what verizon brought out is the first phase of 3g services. if u read the is2000 specs properly, it calls for 144kbps when u're zipping along at highway speeds, and over 1mbps when u're stationary. currently, u'll never even touch 144kbps when u're standing still next to the cellsite and its 3am and no one else in his sane mind is downloading stuff within a 5-10mile radius of u. thats the sad truth, and its a technological barrier for now -- no one's throttling ur pipe. realistically, download of about 100kbps should be attainable and upload is perhaps half of that. and if u get a sucky connection, it might not even be the cdma network -- it could be ur carrier's connection to the internet -- so be careful where u point ur finger.
data over the air is not new, but it has never been deployed on this scale -- its bigger than surfing at ur local starbucks.
Verizon used to be GTE and NYNEX. I don't know anything about NYNEX, but I know GTE sucks ass. I was going to move to a nice suburb, but found out they had GTE and not Southwestern Bell (also evil but not as). I didn't move. I've heard nothing but complaints from people who have GTE. Also QWest formerly Quest and US West sucks ass.
...Verizon's coverage sucks.
Dont they cover like 3 states that arent even the big city states? Verizon hasnt been the leader in customer service or service period.
I've been using Verizon's Express Network since its initial rollout in February. I chose to get the cute little Aircard instead of changing my phone which also meant getting a seperate cellular account just for data. Its not such a bad deal if you're in the coverage areas a fair bit. Particularly if you use the service during off-peak times when you can take advantage of their 3000 and 4000 minute off-peak promotions.
I average about 30-50kbps, though I have seen 70+kbps on a few occasions during file transfers. The included venturi compression helps with basic web browsing and text email. I find it generally faster than the lower speed CDMA offering (Verizon calls it "Mobile Office").
An intersting note - I was testing this one day on the high speed Acela Express train between Boston and NYC and was able to run a ping test for about 20 minutes while the train was doing 150 MPH outside of the Providence RI area. The signal would drop for periods of time but the connection would not be lost entirely and the ping would resume when the signal returned. Trying this same test with the low speed circuit switched data service was virtually impossible since I couldn't keep the connection up for more than a few minutes at 150MPH.
If the pricing were a bit better for the "always on" plans ($35/10MB through $150/150MB) this would be an incredible offering.
In Japan, the best selling mobile handsets
are the ones with cameras in them.
I used a FOMA video phone in Japan, and the reaction I had was that I must get one. It is not
for showing your face when you talk, but for
pointing at things, like "I'm trying to unjam
this printer" or "I'm trying to remove my sink
in the bathroom, how do I disconnect the water pipes?". And when you have real 30 fps frame rate
on video, it is qualitatively different experience than
crappy ISDN video conferencing.
People will make imaging a mandatory feature
on phones, when they actually see it. It is only
the US mobile phone industry that is screwing
up so badly that we are 2-3 years behind the
Japanese in terms of technology. WAP was probably
the cause of at least half the lossage. In Japan,
they just deployed plain old HTML (i-Mode) on phones and it worked ten times better than
the WAP garbage that was being pushed in the US
and Europe.
I have been using the service since the day it came out and had a ton of luck with it. I have used it in my iPaq and Laptop, no problem with either. Thru VPN, no problem. I routinely get express net coverage in the boston and NYC areas and had tremendous luck connecting thru the 2G networks in Cincinnati, upstate NY, DC, many others. I have used it in data and phone mode extensively and had little trouble. In building and out it works fine.
I am amazed at how many people respond about the commericals or non-article related posts. Can we pretend to stay on topic.
sPh
Although the ILEC Verizon owns a controlling interest in Verizon Wireless, they are seperate companies. A fact for which I'm eternally grateful.
I actually have one of these, the Kyocera 2235, that I'm using with a serial cable to do dial-up with the Verizon supplied ISP under Linux. My perception is that it is perhaps marginally faster than landline dialup. I'm pretty happy with it, actually.
I consider the combination of this with the Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 to be an excellent mobile data solution. Not perfect, but excellent.
In Canada, Bell Mobility has launched it's 3G network in the east, and you can consistently get 86kbps. They are projecting reliable speeds up to 144kbps by the end of the year. The service is great. It beats the 14,400 connection that came with the first generation of wireless data. Looks like they are going to launch their network in western Canada later this quarter. If the quality of the network is as good in the west as it is in the east, people will be more than happy to use this service. http://www.bellmobility.ca
I have this service for work, and although it isn't cable/dsl/isdn/name-your-favorite-high-rate-line-h ere, it is functional for what I need. Figure it this way, you are on the road going from meeting to meeting when a mission-critical service on your internal network goes down. From inside the airport, you fire up your laptop, plug in the phone, connect, and tunnel into your network using your vpn client. Start ssh with your favorite server, and start diagnosing the problem...we are talking text here folks...the server/router/etc... comes back up, you are a hero, and business continues normally. No hunting for an analog port. No hunting for an internet cafe. No kidding. Fix the problem right now. No, its not the fastest, but it is -less- frusterating than being bumped from the older cell dial-ups, and there is no waiting for the person on the only analog-capable pay phone at the airport who wants to tell their family about how Shamu V.23 soaked them and then they got to fling a dead fish at the captive whale as a reward....
If it doesn't kill me, I'll try harder until it does....
I'm tired of over 50% of my calls dropping and REALLY tired not even getting many calls! All I get is the message. It's not like I live in the middle of nowhere, I'm in the SF bay area. The only thing keeping me on this plan is the fact that if I switch I have to buy a new phone. I HATE VERIZON.
So higher speed wireless dial up - why can't :)) ??
they allow this technology for use on land line
usage?? Anyone remember promises of >56K on an
analog land line with a modem
Look into alternatives like the Free Wireless
networking grass roots efforts springing up
in several cities - pour in a few dollars &
get them up and running - really make the telcos
start getting angry!!!
...good.