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Verisign Ordered to Stop Deceptive Renewal Notices
Ummagumma writes: "CNN is running a story on how the courts have ordered Verisign to stop their deceptive 'renewal notices' to other registrars' customers. I've gotten a couple of these, and was smart enough to figure out what's going on, but this is a dirty practice, of borderline legality. Let's hope they get smacked down hard for this one..."
I wonder how this will spill over into the slamming done by long distance and other phone companies.
Contracts signed under deceptive circumstances are not and should not valid. This is why there is a clause in most contract that states 'I have read and understood this contract' or something to this effect.
Unfortunately this injunction seems to be only applicable to Bulkregister's clients. Does anyone know of other registrars who are currently taking similar action?
I think that this is a good sign, I have always disliked any company practice that is deceptive in any manner, and I feel that it should be illegal for any company to try to deceive customers especially in a way that would hurt other business if their deception tatics work, and lets face the facts, this is targeted at your less-than-average consumer which just makes it all the more insulting and slimy.
These are neither new nor complicated issues; There are precedents for all of them in the non-Internet realm -- but it's been taking judges and lawyers a long time to realize that.
Got Rhinos?
If Verisign is going to spend this sort of money on advertising (I don't know how many of these letters get sent out - but I got one, and only own three domain names) , why not use it to really attract customers rather than piss them off? I mean, make those advertising dollars count! I can think of many ways to add value to the domain registration service - provide limited web / ftp / mail space included in the price, combined offers for books, hardware, etc. with vendors... Sure it takes an investment to do this - but why else are people going to choose one registrar over another? Looks like domain reg. companies are basically attempting snail mail spam... It's on par with the deception in the spam messages you get from "long lost friends" or messages that appear reputable but send you to the animal whorehouses. Looks like one more item, like spam, that doesn't even make it to be read... Way to go Verisign. Will you be spamming electronically next?
Today I received a message from Bulkregister about this as it would appear to be because ofthem that Verisign are restricted by this injunction.
:o)
Bulkregister are collecting evidence for the forthcoming trial from Bulkregister members - if you're a member send you details including BR membership number to injunction@bulkregister.com
They may require a fax copy or affidavit but personally I think that it's worth it to show Verisign what we think.
I'm not connected with BulkRegister in any way other than being a satisfied customer of their.
M@t
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
Its things like this that make me think a whole overhaul of business schools and other institutions of higher learning is needed. I think things like this have always gone on, but they seem a lot more nasty and prevalent now.
All this crap probably started when Business schools starting using military strategy and Machiavellian philosopy as the ultimate way to win a war with business competition. So in the light of the "ends justify the means", now we have business practices by those who only want their company to win, and they don't care how they do it. Hence my comment about ethics. What goes around comes around, and eventually the entire business world is even more backstabbing and evil than it was before. If its taught in school that this behavior leads to this damage in the system, or the students experience it first hand, perhaps things like this would not happen any more.
All that being said, I'm glad to see that the Law in place to prevent this un-ethical behavior has been used as it was meant to, to stop this sort of unethical behavior. I'd still rather see the solution to the problem be stopping the problem before it occurs, rather than correcting the behavior after the action has been done.
-When going for broke, go for Ithaca!
Yes but PC Magazine doesn't email you to tell you that your Computer Shopper subscription is almost up and that you should renew to "a magazine" through them.
Verisign are attempting to get people not to renew but to transfer - that there is a one year extension to the domain's registry period is purely a function of being an TCANN accredited registry.
They're using a feature of the system to try and get customers back by deception - that stinks.
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
Verisign Ordered to Stop Deceptive Renewal Notices
Posted by timothy on Thursday May 16, @11:10AM
from the getting-off-way-too-easy dept.
getting off way too easy? WTF are you on? Do you even know what an injunction is? What the hell else do you expect at this point?
BilldaCat
Oh, you mean like the dozen or so "helpful reminders" we get from every magazine subscription we own?
No, not like that. It's as if Time magazine sent you a reminder saying that your Newsweek subscription was running out, and suggesting that you had to subscribe to Time magazine to continue receiving any kind of weekly newsmagazine.
Pardon the whoring, but Go Daddy has posted a copy of the notice that Verisign sent out. It does seem fairly shady.
Assuming they are using the U.S. Mail service to solicit this false-renewl, are they not committing Mail Fraud? Or is it only fraud if they do not provide what they are offering and accept your money anyway?
"Just Smile and Nod." --Huck
I had a domain hosted by a company in india which registered the domain for me for 2 years. After a year, I transferred to a hosting company in the US. When the second year was up, I was thinking that I need to track down who the registrar is and renew, when I got a verisign e-mail saying I need to renew. Thinking that was convenient enough, I renewed with them. About a week after I did this I started to see all the articles on slashdot about domain slamming. I looked through some records and realized that Verisign was not my original registrar and they grifted me good, like Homer and the Cooders. I'd like to say I was beaten by the best, but...
The final straw for me was when I received a mailing from them advertising discount renewal rates. The only thing was that they were bogus. After spending lots of time on their website and email customer service, I releaized it wasn't going to happen.
So I switched to directnic. They're cheap, and the FAQ pages do an excelent job of explaining the domain transfew process which was a concern. So some other place out and get Verisign off of you back too. :)
Verisign is, by offering the 9-year plan, making similar mistakes to IBM when they sold instead of leased their mainframe hardware.
So if everybody (who is a Verisign customer), were to go ahead and buy for 9 years, Verisign would actually see a good profit this year, then work that profit direction into future plans' budgets, only to have them fail utterly because nobody would be buying anything from them the next 3-8 years...
Stock prices would drop. Execs would be canned. Heads would roll...
"My God, it would be beautiful..."
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
..when they sold the email addresses of all their domain holders to the spammers (and spammers since they are of questionable legality then sold cheap knockoffs of the CDs to other spammers). Since the internic database of actual email addresses that their customers were using to be informed of changes/renewal notices to their domain names with them, it was an especially sleaze thing to do. I am glad that justice was delivered this time.
-----
Cast a Cold Eye
On Life, on Death
Horseman, pass by
--W.B. Yeats' gravestone
So, in other words, this little "renewal" notice made it appear like it was time for me to renew the domain registered through VeriSign, even though I really would have been transfering two other domains instead.
VeriSign is evil and deserves to die. Apparently, their product can't compete on its own merits any more; they have to resort to deception to sell it.
In general, I'm pretty happy with most of VeriSign's services, even if they are a bit pricey.
What really upsets me is that they're not just using deceptive renewal notices to trick other provider's customers, but they're also sending them out to their current users.
I get e-mail/mail from VeriSign all the time warning me that I need to respond by a certain date or I'll lose my services. Nowhere in the notice does it have the actual date that the account expires. Looking at my own records or checking my account, I find out that the actual required date is weeks or even months after their "important notice" warns me to respond. I've become so accustomed to ignoring their mail, I've almost missed renewing a couple of (non-critical) domains.
What's troubling is that they don't seem to realize just how stupid their strategy is -- it might be the only way an upstart provider could gain customers -- but they *are* the brand name in registrars. They should be so ahead of everyone else and be trying to capitalize on what's left of their legitimacy to build on trust and user loyalty, rather than acting like some fly-by-night spammer operating out of a rented basement apartment.
Asinine stunts like this are destroying the only competitive advantage they really have. They should send someone to take a first year general business course, maybe that will help them get a clue.
My next sig will be ready soon, but friends can beat the rush!
Yes but PC Magazine doesn't email you to tell you that your Computer Shopper subscription is almost up and that you should renew to "a magazine" through them.
I dunno about that...my latest renewal notice for Astronomy magazine contained an insert warning of two subscription services who were, in fact, sending out subscription notices to Astronomy subscribers. So it looks like the magazine industry is also starting to become infected with deceptive renewal practices.
Besides the deceptive fake billing notices from VeriSign and other (American Registry?), VeriSign employs a few other sleezy tactics.
I use OpenSRS for all my registrations, and one of my customers just lost control of his domain name to VeriSign (who also stripped his e-mail, name and company name off of the domain record - and when he called VeriSign they denied any knowledge of them having the domain in their system - even though whois clearly showed it!) Anway, someone in his office paid the "invoice", thus initiating the transfer. The real registrar (OpenSRS) sends out an e-mail to the admin contact notifiying him of the transfer and providing a link and a password to approve the transfer. Unfortunately, ICANN rules state that if you do nothing in 5 days (i.e. specifically deny the transfer), that lack of action in 5 days counts as an acknowledgement to approve the transfer! Bang - bye bye domain name.
Another customer got his renewl notice from VeriSign (a legit one), paid it via credit card, and 4 days AFTER he paid it, VeriSign sold his name to a company in Taiwan. Now VeriSign is telling him there's no way to get the domain back. Argh..
And my final vent on VeriSign. I was watching a domian that expired in March 2000 on their system. I had opened up 3 separate trouble tickets with VeriSign in an attempt to get them to release the domain so I could buy it. Not once did I ever get a response back on one of my trouble tickets. I checked the domain for release almost every day - until one day I see that's it's now owned by a company in Taiwan who is just simply reselling it now for $1500.
He fell for it (I think I'll be sending him all sorts of offers now :)
He called Verisign and Register.com and got the domain name sorted out, but Verisign has been giving him the runaround for months about refunding his money (fool sent a check in).
They were even gonna deduct $4 for a processing fee for the refund.
They'll get their wrists slapped, change their tactics slightly, and continue pushing the boundaries of the law. The penalties aren't severe enough to warrant changing their behavior.
include $sig;
1;
Yes but PC Magazine doesn't email you to tell you that your Computer Shopper subscription is almost up and that you should renew to "a magazine" through them.
True but what I've been getting lately are "bills" for magazines that I haven't subsribed to from a billing company that services accounts for magazines I actually do subscribe to.
In other words, in addition to the bill for my subscription to MacWorld recently I received what appeared to be a bill for a subscription to Time an one to Sports Illustrated. On closer inspection, they were just solicitations but they were almost identical to the legit bill that arrived in the same envelope.
--
There's one thing computing teaches you, and that's that there's no point to remembering everything.
--Doug Copland
Take 5 minutes, right now, and fill out complaint forms on the following websites:
- BBB.org
- FTC
- USPS Post Master [usps.com]
Tell these agencies what you received. Send a message to Verisign that we will not put up with this bull crapI have to admit that I fell for Verisign's mailer and I gave them permission to "renew" (transfer) one of my domains. I have a few with Verisign already, which is why I got duped, but this particular one wasn't.
The great thing was that the registrar with whom my domain was actually hosted (Tucows) sent me an e-mail asking for my permission to release the domain. Realizing I had fallen prey to Verisign's schemes, I replied that I do not give permission.
The transfer didn't occur and I kept my money.
If you are Canadian who has been scammed, or if you have been scammed by a Canadian domain registrar, please click here to contact him by e-mail or use the following address (remove the spaces): .com
S K 1 @canada
(Don't reply to me). Thanks.
I use godaddy and I love it. Its cheap, a good POS, and here is a copy of the notice.
I wanted to buy a candle holder, but the store didn't have one. So I got a cake.