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A Web Browser in Your BIOS?
Anonymous Coward points to this article on xbitlabs.com, which begins "At the recently held Computex show in Taipei Phoenix Technology Company introduced its new FirstBIOS based on Linux. Among the major advantages of this product, they mentioned such things as PC wake from different standby modes and integrated means of rapid PC recovery in case of failure." That's not all, though -- the article goes on to say that "the most remarkable thing is that you will be able to get access to Internet directly from this interface either via the traditional modem or local network. In this case the data will be stored in NTFS, FAT32 and ext2 file systems.
According to Phoenix, all these features fit into 16Mbit Flash memory."
So, it's probably going to be LYNX. Yay. Like I couldn't boot off of a floppy and do this.
Is it just me, or are BIOS images getting more and more bloated?
I use a Macintosh. While earlier Macs had all sorts of nonsense in ROM (car crash noises, colour photographs, and god knows what else besides) recent machines have almost nothing.
Technologies change - indeed the web is moving at a fair rate too. Imagine if this web browser in the BIOS only supported HTML 1.0.
http://www.themeparks.ie
Can anybody tell me what the point of this would be? Accessing the Internet from your BIOS sounds cool, but I really can't see the point of doing so.. Isn't this why we have OS'?
--
\ Christian A Strømmen
What a great idea! At last you can get those pesky modem drivers without actually having the drivers themselves needed to make the modem work.
Why do I M2 everything negatively?
scope creep? wtf does my BIOS need a friggin web browser? sheesh!
four-oh-four
Oh great... now the script kiddies will be able to remotely hack all the way down to my bios!
Brings new meaning to the term owned.
We are complaining about computers being bundled with MS Windows. If this turns into a standard bios, because of it's cool features etc., I wonder how Microsoft feels not being able to get rid of Linux without destroying the BIOS.
Furthermore, if the BIOS has web browsing capabilities, and maybe even e-mailing capabilities, it may be the perfect [BI]OS for some people. There may not be a need for yet another OS to run on top of it.
But yea, a bit bloated for being "just" a BIOS, isn't it? As long as it's rock solid it shouldn't matter though.
The article is pretty basic, it doesn't say web browser, it just says internet access.
I think it is probaly a bit of bloat, but it would be nice to flash your bios, or maybe download drivers without using the OS at all.
Start the computer into BIOS mode, it dials in, grabs the new image or whatever you need, and can install it. Could also be nice to get recovery tools for your broken OS install.
To name this BIOS of a PC is a bit far fetched. The term embedded OS with browser capabilities seems to fit much better. From the web page of them it seems to be more a "Net appliance" thing. Maybe it can boot another OS, but that seems to be optional. After all, if you can browse the web with Flash/Java/JavaScript, what else do many people need?
So this small "BIOS" might have a market in small devices, so you can skip the HDD completely and still have something useable. Nothing any other embeddedable OS cannot do (Linux, WindowsCE, QNX, you name it).
I kind of like this idea.
If a useful browser/email client were included
in flash, the computer would be instantly useful without installation of any O/S. Maybe this is what some people need- just pick up a cheap PC to use as a browser, no need for a HD, etc.
This could also be useful for initial net-based O/S installation or download. Having basic tools
available in ROM could ease a lot of tasks- include a browser, an FTP client, a telnet client, and disk partitioning/formatting software, for example.
In a way, this brings back ideas from old personal computers. Old machines often had BASIC in ROM- you could use the machine with no storage and no preload of software.
A mini-OS on a chip, where have I seen that before? (Amiga Kickstart?)
While the modularity and flexibility of certain OSes make for lovely exhibits of creativity, this makes me wonder.
The article mentioned Java and Flash abilities, also. Can you imagine a remote root exploit in your Internet-connected BIOS?
How about a nice Flash/Java app that embeds SMTP commands to turn your BIOS into a high-speed spam machine?
My crystal ball shows an ever-brightening future for Internet security consultants.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
This way your bios can be updated over the net (like remote firmware update/flash)....know what that means to the chip companies? Slow down in upgrades, for one thing.
They mention that data can be stored in NTFS...has the linux ntfs driver write support progressed beyond "extremely dangerous"?
..
nice feature but i didnt think the drivers were there yet
Now I need to flash my BIOS just to upgrade my web browser? Sheesh.
...you still have a floppy drive in your house?
How arcane.
What do you care how big the bloat in the BIOS is? It doesn't affect performance as much as software bloat.
While outdated technology is something that sucks, imagine having TCP/IP protocols burned into the ROM. That would be useful for everyone.
For a general purpose machine, there is certainly a limit to how much crap you want to hardwire into the machine itself, but wouldn't an array of common protocols and functionality that are necessary across the breadth of modern operating systems be nice to have?
I have been pwned because my
While the whole idea sounds interesting, I have security concerns. Remember the ping of death, and other exploits like that? Image the "fun" script kiddies could have once an exploit is found. I hope this device includes support for scheduled automated bios upgrades to patch any bugs that are found.
People seem to be saying "this isn't a web browser, it is internet access." Well, add some RAM, mount a NFS partition off some server somewhere, and up can pop Mozilla, Nutscrape, Opera, etc. This is the core making of a set top box, or true network appliance. Don't just think web browser. Think small efficient MP3 player, email client. I am sure you smart Slashdotters can think of many more possibilities. Slap on a chip that doesn't need a fan, and a small fanless ac/dc converter, and you have a zero-moving part, zero-noise system.
This could change the way we think about network appliances, and Network Computers.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
This reminds me of the phoenix.net crap that came on EPoX and other motherboards about two years ago that force-installed some "helpful" utilities that an objective eye would consider spyware upon detecting a Windows installation. Thankfully, at least EPoX removed it, but this looks like an attempt to reincarnate the idea. I wouldn't trust them.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
Although this might technically be called a BIOS, it certainly doesn't sound like something intended for a traditional PC. Looks more like Phoenix is after the embedded devices market...
;-)
Phoenix FirstView Connect software delivers an easy-to-implement, low cost/high value architecture that supports Internet TV, interactive screen phones, game consoles, customizable set-top devices, handheld appliances, and more.
This has really useful applications for small, specialized devices...it could turn just about anything into a Web-capable appliance. It would be kind of pointless on a full-fledged PC, however.
If it was implemented on a PC, it would probably end up a very annoying big brother of PhoenixNet. *shudder* Just imagine having to sit through ten minutes of downloading and playing Flash-based advertisements every time you booted your new DellPaq...
DennyK
I'd like something new to play with and this fits the bill and sounds neat, but what is the market for this, seriously, I'd like to know who would use this, I can see in a "thin-client" accessing Application Servers over a LAN/WAN, but outside of that sort of realm, what is the market?
+----DuBBs2ooo----+
+The King of Fools+
+-----------------+
It does seem more like a gimic than anything that would be useful in day to day operation. I can see one use though. More than once I've be installing an OS (Microsoft - what do you want to reinstall today) and suddenly found that I needed information on a hard drive, or an updated driver, or some other information that I wanted to get from the web. In my case I fire up the old P166 and reslove things with it, but the ability to get to the web while resolving problems could be handy for many.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
The BIOS concept is absolutely not out of date. In fact it is becoming more important as devices become more separated and need to connect on the fly without driver installations. A BIOS (or firmware) is simply code which knows how to initialize and operate a piece of hardware so that the OS or other interacting software doesn't need to know.
It would be cool if it had just enough to start a network install of a few Linux distro's -- the same stuff that's usually on the floppy of the distro.
There have been many times where I've wished I could just plug in a new computer to cable or adsl, and just start a network install.
Man, this sucks! It doesn't even have OpenOffice.org installed! And where is GNOME? It doesn't mention plaing MP3s and watching DivX movies, either.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
The last time I thought about Phoenix BIOS and networking was when I had to deal with the bios installing network marketing icons to the desktop of Win machines I was configuring for work.
After the incident with PhoenixNet, I decided never to buy a phoenix bios again.
I can see this one reporting marketing data back to the mothership bigtime. No thanks.
7. What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence.
Putting Lynx, in the bios would be nice, it could manage all the features in the BIOS, and support FTP and HTTP installs over the net.
The ability of the BSD's to be installed via a pair of floppies, and a net connect is a very handy feature.
i think it has a future, but we have to play it save, because more features means more potentional bugs. and i'm realy scared for a virus that runs from my bios
PS sorry for the bad english
I actually think it's a great idea. Imagine to build your own box and being able to just install from BIOS. No more fuzz about finding another box, downloading boot floppies, finding out the floppies you have are useless for anything but teacup saucers, ... Just download bootloader and write to your virgin HD, and off you go!
Dunno how long before someone figures out how to flash the thing remotely and give us popup pr0n on the boot splash, tho.
My sparc 1 thats now 13 years old has a bios that has network access and forth. It lets me boot remotely or write programs to reprogram the cmos after the battery dies.
The lowest (and supporting) levels of anything should be simple and robust. This gives the higher levels something to build on. This principle applies to computers as well as buildings,
To me, the function of a BIOS is to hide the gory details of the hardware from the OS, and to help the OS bootstrap. Above all else, BIOS must function. Performance and complex functions are secondary. The BIOS needs to live long enough to check for hardware, and tell the OS what's available.
These guys aren't building BIOS anymore. They are building an embedded OS. I'm not sure if we want an embedded OS just for starting the real OS. What ever happened to "Keep It Simple S-tpid!"
If my machine needs an update that badly, let me do it with a floppy (another simple device) and a standard (not USB!) keyboard. This is more secure, more robust, and performs the function needed.
This concept sucks. I want firmware for my hardware, not an embedded OS as well.
such as.. web editor, CD Player, VESA compatible GUI 800x600, Internet via LAN. on one floppy loaded to memory buffers. and the tweakers won't be afraid to flash the bios http://www.menuetos.org
-JAPAN: ol yor beys ar bilong tu as! -AH!
Why, within year we might be able to boot from a network server! Or copy software from a network server! They could call it "TFTP"!
There are plenty of advantages and drawbacks to something like this.
I like the quick power on and no need for long bootup wait and the potential for diskless operation. Ideal for consumer electronic applications like PVRs.
As others have mentioned, the complexity of the BIOS now means it's harder to secure against network exploits. How about reducing the network functionality down to a minimum? BUt, at the same time, it would be nice to have standard network functionality to replace all these different internal communication busses.
Imagine if the HD were communicating via IP to other internal components. It would be interesting if my PC were nothing but a mini LAn of components that could be just more networked devices. And if I could make a NAS down the hall look really local and not through SMB or NFS.
The networking built into the X windowing system would be small potatotes compared to having everything be a networked device: video card, mouse, keyboard, harddisk, CD, etc. This new BIOS seems like an important step if something like that is ever to happen.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
If you are going to do all that, you can just do it with current technology and boot roms. I have several totally diskless stations that boot from PXELinux (from the syslinux people), and have NFS root volumes.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
It seems to be alot like Linux In A Box, http://www.liab.dk . Except LIAB is actually a small computer, not just the bios.
:-)
I guess you could use them for really small firewalls
I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame it on you.
Check out their QNX-Nuetrino Demo Floppy it has a POSIX complient realtime OS, with their Photon GUI (elegant in the extreme compared to X), a full file system, Networking, their Voyager web Browser, & dial up networking (with wider CHAP/PAP logon script support than BeOS &) or Network card/cable modem support, all on a bootable floppy drive. This OS system on a floppy also by default dynamically supports at least Intel, SIS, ALI & VIA chipsets & S3, Intel, 3df/x, ATI, Nvidia, SIS 'n Trident graphics out of the box too.
I was reading a forum today where someone was explaining how to put Workbench (GUI Shell) into the RAM on a classic Amiga.
Now, its not bios, but it just as fast or faster and to have that ability is pretty cool. I think the cmd shell was also stored in the Amiga's ROM. Not sure on that!
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
Ya, otherwise known as a PDA.
This comment was generated by a Squadron of Ultra Ninjas
or are you just happen to see me.
This doesn't sound all that different from what OpenFirmware (used by Suns and Macs) has done for years.
Nice to see Intel boxes finally catching up with the 1990s.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
So I took the definition from everything2
"An acronym for 'Basic Input/Output System.' In standard Intel personal computers, a ROM program
responsible for controlling low-level access to system devices. In most modern operating systems,
the BIOS is used mostly to perform the POST and then boot the operating system."
And this doesn't seem to meet the definition of BASIC. I'd like to nominate XIOS, for eXtreme (or maybe eXtended) Input/Output System, because we don't have nearly enough acronyms that start with X.
I really hate Dan Patrick.
Flash!? Damn, that's gotta be fast to have a BIOS flash parser....
No more dropped frames in my flash games!
I will now redundantly add my name to the end of my post. You know, in case you forgot me or something.
I did find a silly work-around to this problem, though. I used a digital camera to capture these settings, only problem is it's way too time consuming! :)
-jc
Isn't this inherently insecure?
Now 31337 h4ck3rZ can own your bios too.
If there's room in the BIOS, fill it up with goodies I say!
It's not as if they're doing something idiotic and harmful as tying an OS to certain hardware and vendors with the BIOS, making lame excuses about "anti-piracy measures".
This isnt a PC BIOS folks. It's intended as an BIOS/OS for web enabled devices.
From the website:
Phoenix FirstView Connect software delivers an easy-to-implement, low cost/ high value architecture that supports Internet TV, interactive screen phones, game consoles, customizable set-top devices, handheld appliances, and more
Of course, the neat part about it is that it is based on linux and all fits on a 16MB flash memory...maybe someone can create a family of web enabled devices where you carry your flash memory card to the device, slide it in and run the device with your personal prefs taken from the card.
Internet access from the bios would cover 95% of my computer use (at home anyway). I wouldnt need to load an OS!
no sig.
Is it just me or is this just really pointless? I don't see any real reason why a BIOS would do any good with this feature. There are some neat BIOS utilities like MSI's LiveBIOS and FuzzyLogic that maintains and upgrades the BIOS over the net from the OS- though it sounds like a useful tool, I wouldn't touch with a 150 mile pole just yet and I still prefer the old fashioned boot from floppy and flash the bios image off the HDD. I think the LinuxBIOS is a cool project, hopefully it can become of some use, I have a busted Slot1 mobo with a bad BIOS that needs an EEPROM burn, I'd like to see if I can get LinuxBIOS on it one day.
http://www.acl.lanl.gov/linuxbios/
There was an article in Linux Journal about Linuxbios recently too. Basically a rom monitor, or open firmware equivalent for PCs.
So, they'll be providing source with every bios chip, right? Very cool for the Linuxbios project.
OK...its official linux is now buzzword compliant. When folks start using Linux as the base for BIOS things ain't right. Can imagine why you would want all the overhead of linux for something as basic as bios.
Shees who was the marketing person who listened to the overzealous linux freak ?
Does it run Windows?
If not then forget it.
The best part is not using Linux... it's removing Windows!
:oP
Judging this new feature, do you think one day a whole OS will put placed in a FlashBIOS - so there will be no HardDisk etc~
Hehe, I am waiting for that day~~
The OS vendors will ignore all the embedded functionality, because they have it all implemented in the code, very flexible and optimized. If someone has forgotten, the very first thing every modern PC O/S does is ignoring most of the BIOS.
So ok, what a great idea - to have a web browser and a TCP stack in the BIOS. One question though - why?!?!?! I don't care, I've got O/S for this. I can hardly imgaine myself botting the PC into the OS-less mode to browse the net. So far their only use case for this model is the OS-less BIOS upgrade. But who cares? Does it sound like toomuch work, to go to the BIOS manufacturer (or even better, to the computer vendor's) website and to download the damn thing? It's hardly more than one floppy in size!
Yet another pathetic case of a totally useless product with all kinds of "kewl" buzzwords attached...
I would be happier about this idea if we could have a physical motherboard switch (brought out to the panel) that had to be held on manually to enable flashing the BIOS. The ability to change the BIOS by programming is a security vulnerability that can only get bigger as BIOS functionality increases. Yet it could be prevented by a simple single pole momentary switch.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
It's not pointless at all. THe ability to turn on a machine, blind, and have it quit functional (debug memory, rudamentary programming, scannign for new devices, etc) is highly useful.
Look at Sun.. they've been doing it, well, forever.
The BIOS stuff we have now is basically useless.
That's what computers used to do. How do you think your Commodore 64 or your Apple 2 booted? You got it.. straight out of ROM.
And they didn't have a BIOS.
BIOS is like a simple API.. a standard set of interrupts & calls that somewhat abstract the hardware beneath. It's pretty trivial. It's also not required if the OS can support the hardware directly.
I think this could be a great idea for system recovery. If your OS is crippled and you need to download something off of the 'net to rectify it you could boot to your BIOS to download the said things or repiar whatever it is on the partition containing your OS. It be like kind of having a built in recovery disk with net access.
Haven't any of you seen the QNX demo floppy: Kernel, GUI, Graphical Webbrowser, Java VM, and Network or Modem drivers all on a floppy. QNX can also run on BIOSless machines I'm pretty sure, and can easily run from flash memory. So, what's the big deal with someone putting this stuff into a web-appliance machine when it's already been done?
> Ya, otherwise known as a PDA.
;)
>
Or better known as an IOpener Net Appliance
You should have seen my 2 friends faces when I showed them my $99 IOpener (running JAILBAIT Linux). They had spent $1500 each for PC's running Windows to get email and to surf the web. Even at $400, a Net Appliance is all most families need.
OK, throw one fullblown PC in there as a file server and now Jr and Jr-ette get cheap appliances instead of massively expensive and support intensive Windows based PC's. They could pay for it with lemonaide stand money for cry'n out loud.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
the very first thing every modern PC O/S does is ignoring most of the BIOS
Are you new to computers? Or do you just not understand what the BIOS does?
The cool thing about this is that it SHOULD be able to be used to boot as a thin client to an X server. Even if the HD crashes, it wouldn't stop a user from being able to do some work.
--I think it's a slick idea. What would be cool would be a 99$ internet surfing machine, all the OS and webrowser, etc contained on a chip, have some industry standard CHEAP ram like pc 133 ram, connected to a cheap lcd screen. Sort of a barebones laptop, ready to rock out the door.
Believe it or nutz, there are MILLIONS of people who just want to surf web pages and do email, they could care less about home networks and running the latest 4 dimensional childish video gore games, etc, and for them, a really cheap and functional machine like that would sell like hotcakes. Sort of an advanced webtv dealie, but zip moving parts, no floppy or cd drive, no hard drive, all solid state. Plug it in with an adapter so it's either 12 volt car-ish or 110, and the phone line. Done. Perhaps based on something really secure like a hardened linux or bsd OS. And ya, if it screws up or gets owned, a replaceable snap in chip to "fix" it, again, a mass produced chip.
Why would I want to surf the web from my BIOS? ..
That's like having an engine placed on a bike, oh.. they did that already and called it a motorcycle
16Mbit is only 2 Megabyte.
Sure Qnx RTP has a browser on floppy, but flash support? I haven't seen linux scale this small with a fully functionality on floppy like that
So am I to understand that now, instead of using lilo or grub, I'll be able to just visit http://www.bootstraploader.com from the BIOS and follow the links to download (or read from disk cache) my OS of choice and then boot into it? I guess the links would look something like this: Linux --> 2.4 --> 2.4.18 --> Download or Windows --> Windows XP --> Windows XP Professional --> Windows XP Professional Upgrade from Windows 2000 --> Authorize Microsoft to Scan Your Hard Drives for Qualifying Product --> Authorize Microsoft to Debit Your Checking Account By $229.99 --> Download
So is putting a Browser native to the computers BIOS now considered anti-competitve practice? After all, you can't turn it off or remove it and you don't even need an OS to run it... But as long as it isn't MS, it's OK, right? Just some food for thought.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
They seem to be going along fine and that's probably where this 'firstbios' originated.
Check them out, they can boot your machine so fast your HD's don't have time to spin up.
Liberty.
Every PCI modem I've used required a driver before you could even pass AT commands on to the modem.
That's not a modem but simply an AD-DA-converter with a phone plug. The drivers for real modems are sets of AT commands.
While this Linux in the BIOS thing is good for embedded systems, I still think there should be Open Firmware in an Intel PC. Think of it, the ability to load ELF files directly from the firmware...
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
If not, what is being done about it?
"Damnit, my BIOS just crashed!"
I can't imagine this would help the cost of a motherboard, I'm use to spending around ~$100 for a good motherboard. My current motherboard cost me $150, a year ago when I bought it I thought I spent too much then. A bootable CD with Linux on it cost me $1... :)
Nevertheless, this could be really useful if only I had the ability to mount my windows or linux drive with rw perms. If it supported PPP/PPPOE and a few other high speed internet connection methods I could connect to the internet, download a few drivers or what not and fix my system without cobbling together another system -- I'd be happy. I'd also want ftp, and a bunch of other cli tools. I want to see this implimented as a full blown Linux BIOS that I can disable / enable at will...
-Matt
Wouldn't this system be a backup OS in flash memory?
Just because it uses the BIOS flash instead of a separate chip doesn't really make that much of a difference. I also think that for the most part one would ignore most of the onboard stuff.
This is such classic Slashdot... the O.P. sees the Phoenix name, assumes BIOS, and posts a story to that effect. Lots of comments are based on the same idea, though nobody bothers to click through to the original link.
FirstView Connect 2.0 is not a PC BIOS. It's listed as being for "information appliances" and other semi-computers, like set top boxes. For them, where a hard disk is unusual, a powerful ROM is a good developers' tool. Many developers like the Linux environment, so it's attractive to them. Some of these are a lot like miniature PCs; for instance, the PC/104 form factor is a hand-sized stackable card with an ISA bus, often used for compact embedded systems (it usually costs more than a full-sized motherboard). But FirstView is not aimed at generic PC motherboards.
Flashing the BIOS is always a risk that might require you to have your computer repaired. Imagine your system doing this sort of "maintenance update" when all of a sudden there is a blackout.
Yes, you could employ a Dual BIOS system, but still - what if your new BIOS doesn't boot properly anymore? While advanced users might be able to handle this situation without problems, what about Joe Sixpack?
Flashing the ROM is messing with the hardware, something your system should do as little as possible. Everything that can be updated on a software basis should be done so.
I may not know the joys of a 300baud modem, but I do know how long it takes to download games for an Atari 800 off of a BBS at 1200baud, only to have someone in your house pick up the phone...
Woohoo! Finally they found a possibility to
include Microsoft spyware in the computers
most basic piece of software!
"640K ought to be enough for anyone" - Bill Gates, 1980
The NetWinder did this 4 years ago. San Mehat and Pat Beirne formerly of Corel can be thanked for the idea. Woody Suwalski, and myself inherited the maintenance for this firmware. Ralph Siemsen and I later started from scratch for the NetWinder 3100 firmware.
Not a new idea at all.
As long as you're putting in a browser, email client, FTP client and partition editor, how about gcc for compiling your new OS after downloading it?
:)
And, of course, Beowulf should be included.
Seriously, GNU Grub allows net booting, partitioning, chain loading, kernel parameter passing and multibooting.
Stupid moderators. This may be a wrong idea, but it's certainly not a troll.
(I'm not the posting AC)
The service that is so dated and over-hyped, no wonder it's http proxy servers(used by default) are number 1.0, 1.0, 1.0!
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
They said Linux, not MS. This will run fast and secure. Thanx god.
Next thing you'll be able to check your mail from bios..
A web browser in the BIOS, eh? That's kind of like having a web browser in the operating system... the same operating system that doesn't have a built-in spelling checker, but has a web browser built in. That makes a lot of sense.
No, I've got a better idea. Make a BIOS that contains the whole damn operating system. Seriously. You turn the computer on and it's on within about 5 seconds and ready to rumble. There's no waiting for the BIOS to bring up the bootloader, and the bootloader to bring up the other bootloader, and that bootloader to bring up a menu of operating systems, and that will bring up the bootloader, which will bring up the bootloader, which will boot the kernel, which will start all your shit. No, instead, there would be a session set up at the BIOS manufacturer's facility, and when you turn the computer on, it'll do some hardwired shit like turn the hard drive on and shit, and then the operation system comes on, but it never boots--the image in memory is the saved state of what it was doing when the BIOS manufacturer "captured" the session and burnt it on the BIOS. Then, there is no booting, no shutting down, no nothing. The operating system never knew it was just off two seconds ago. Of course, some shit would have to be initialized, like finding the DHCP host, or figgering out the time, or other shit like that, but the addresses of those things in memory could be initialized with the proper values just before starting the shit up. This would prevent problems like people's system folders gettig all fucked up, and they'll have to spend less time reinstalling and more time drinking Negra Modelo. Oh well.
Does anyone else think this is foolish? At any point that there is access to/from the outside, there is a possible vulnerability. How much of a breakthrough would this be if someone hacked into your BIOS and created a boot-password that you didn't know? Wouldn't that really suck?
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
Sounds like we are getting closer to Snow Crash's definition of BIOS. That being Built-In Operating System.
Um, Troll? Actually not. My comment wasn't a rant. It wasn't a baseless opinion. The BIOS story precisely parallels what everybody is ragging Microsoft about- Building a native browser without the ability to remove it. Well, I see somebody else stepping to the plate here but where is all the hate mail to accompany it? Switch the word "Phoenix" with "Microsoft" and this thread will become a hate-filled shit storm guaranteed. The words "Browser Monopoly" will be chanted in the streets. Call it a troll if you want, but building native hardware browser support has the possibility of trumping even the most stubborn OS. That's not worth discussion? You, my angery little moderator need some serious perspective.
Thanks for the interesting, dude. you know who you are.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
When will Pizza Hut start building chips into the Pizza Boxes?
You need a FREE iPod Nano
...or are you just happy to see me?
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
What happens when your Browser-based bios pulls a segfault on you ? Unrecoverable system ?
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Lynx is OK, but Links is better. Support for frames and tables in a text-based browser, it makes browsing online documentation and downloading new software from the command line much more pleasant.
Could this be the first move back to a solid-state computer?
Obviously you would not get rid of your hard drives and other storage media. But what's to stop you from having your operating system on some type of flash memory?
You need to get yourself an accoustic coupler...
Buckets,
pompomtom
"There's an exception to every rule. Except for some rules"
That's not a modem...
...drivers for real modems..
Whats not a modem? PCI modems aren't modems? Do they MODulate and DEModulate? Yes. Of course they're modems. Please explain if I'm missing something here.
Real modems? I'm not sure where you're going here, it sounds like you're talking about WinModems, which of course are not modems. My PCI modem is _not_ a winmodem, its a "hardware" modem.
The drivers for real modems are sets of AT commands
You mean it tells windows that dialing ###-#### is done by sending
AT S0 999 9999
to the modem? (yes, I don't know my AT cmds anymore)
Wouldn't that mean I could just use hyperterminal to access the modem, without installing drivers? Well I can't, until I install the drivers.
Maybe you're speaking about modems under Linux, which I haven't tried, due to the fact that cable Internet has been around for years... and before, as you can tell, I dialed my ISP using Bill's OS.
Cheers
Appearantly the web-hype-for-brains people have never dealt with a BIOS with too much crap to deal with. I'm sure there are others like myself who have experienced such horrors.
_
return 0;
}
Yeah, PCI modems work fine under Linux too. My USR something or other is detected and runs on /dev/ttyS4, which would be com5 in winders. As far as Linux is concerned, it's just another serial port.
The ocean parts and the meteors come down
Laid out in amber, baby.