Slashdot Mirror
Bioware Revises NWN EULA
malaire writes "Assistant Producer Derek French of Neverwinter Nights has posted the new EULA for all to see. This addresses most concerns raised by the community about user-created content for the game." Our story noting the EULA concerns makes interesting, if somewhat confusing, reading.
Like anyone is going to read the EULA now anyways.....
Great Linux Site
Okay, if anyone actually bothered to READ the EULA, they will see that Bioware has actually done a Good Thing (tm). Now you actually have to distribute your module, as opposed to simply "serving" it. Which I suppose means that if 5,000 people play under me as a DM, they cant touch it, but if I send it to Billy Bob jr to play on his Lindows machine, its fair game. :)
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
I've already bought this game on the promise of a multiplatform game that will run on my linux machine out-of-the-box. Bioware ships the game with no linux client - with the old 'linux client to follow' excuse. Now this.
... of course, none of this will matter, because the 200 people that are about to post 'don't buy the game', 'let your wallet do the talking' or 'boycott Bioware' will be doing the same damn thing I'm doing today - calling the store like madmen so we can skate work early and begin playing.
We just can't catch a break
Too bad they still get to sleep with your mom, or your sister, or your dog. I had enough of that with the Baldurs Gate 2 EULA. (read the forums)
It's not like they truly addressed any of our concerns, they just put it in different words.
"5. Infogrames' and BioWare's Use of Variations. If you Distribute, or permit others to Distribute, your Variations, you hereby grant back to Infogrames and BioWare an irrevocable royalty-free right to use and distribute such Variations by any means, and to make such modifications thereto as Infogrames and/or BioWare deem are necessary to package, combine, and otherwise distribute such Variations. If you do not wish to grant these rights to Infogrames and BioWare, you must not Distribute your Variations (although you may Serve your Modules). Infogrames and BioWare will make a reasonable effort to provide credit to you in the event it uses or distributes your Variations, but you acknowledge that identifying you and/or other Variation creators may be difficult, and any failure by Infogrames and/or BioWare to provide credit to any person shall not be a breach of this License and shall not limit Infogrames' or BioWare's rights to use and distribute any Variation. "
6. Revocation of Rights. Infogrames and/or BioWare may at any time and in their sole discretion revoke your right to make your Variations publicly available (whether you are Distributing or Serving), provided that Infogrames and/or BioWare shall not revoke your right to Distribute a Variation if Infogrames and/or BioWare is, at the time of such revocation, using or distributing such Variation.
:)
So they actually put in their EULA that if they sell a expansion pack with your mod in it, they won't take away your distribution rights of said mod just to bump their profits.
Our story noting the EULA concerns makes interesting, if somewhat confusing, reading.
Which makes it just like all of the other Slashdot stories.
Is having a developer who cares more about the players, and the game itself, than anything else(i.e. money) Any game with a developer who doesn't LOVE thier game is doomed.
From section 2:
;-)
You may not copy, rent, lend, lease, sublicense, distribute, publicly display, create derivative works based upon the Software (except as provided in Section 3 below) or otherwise commercially exploit the Software (including, without limitation, hosting pay-per-play servers).
Copy, rent, lease, sublicense and all those junk I understand, but forbidding me to lend it to my friend is going overboard. Ah, well, I'll just have to exchange it for another game then
Also, since the end-user can't publicly display NWN, it seems like they'll be releasing them in nondescript black boxes then...
Im still looking for the part where I agree to give my soul to bioware when I buy the game. That always hapens when I buy one of these games.
The Code Ninja is swift with his tool, precise in his delivery, and deadly accurate in his execution.
Well, this is good news; the rewording is a large step in the right direction although they still haven't crossed the finish line yet.
;)
Essentially they have revised the clause everyone was upset over to read "we can force you to stop giving away your mod, but only if we're not selling it too". This addresses the concerns people had with Bioware stealing their customers' mods, while still giving them a legal right to stop the distribution of mods they/someone finds offensive. While cencorship is still implied, it at least removes the possibility that they can unfairly profit off your hard work.
However, they still added the weasel words that would allow them to include your mod in a CD they're selling and not give you credit for it. While it does they they will make every effort to give you credit, it does not say they *have* to; in fact they give themselves permission to forget; so it basically still boilds down to "we'll give you credit if we feel like making the effort".
Oh well, if your mod is that popular, people will most likely have already heard of you and know you made it. I know that I for one now feel no hesitation in designing and distributing my own mods; whether people will want to play them is another matter.
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
That is, the EULA says they can't revoke your right when they are using or distributing your stuff; but, they leave the door wide open to take away your rights...and THEN start using and distributing your stuff.
We all know the great grammar skills of some of these editors, not to name names...
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
the GPL exists. And projects like http://www.planeshift.it/
**NOT OFF-TOPIC** okay people, its been like what, 10 years or so since these two came out and I still cant play Mario on the Genesis. What does this have to do with anything? Well, none of us here were forced to use X OS (as in variable, not necessarily OS X), we MADE that choice. Its not like we didnt KNOW that Windows is the "platform of choice" for 99.9% of all games released. Bioware (and other companies) couls just say to heck with Linux and Macintosh, but no, they DO develop their software for them. Does it take longer? sometimes. But why should 90% of the gaming population suffer because some of you refuse to dual boot. I dont expect to play GTA3 on my Game Cube. I didnt expect to play Mario on my Genesis. Say this is any different, and you've missed the entire point.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
It will be interesting to see if a court upholds this EULA over the owners copyright rights.
Oh, come, come, come. Without a monster or two, it's hardly a quest... merely a gaggle of friends wandering about. - Owl
they leave the door wide open to take away your rights...and THEN start using and distributing your stuff
:(
What "Rights" exactly. You buy the game if you agree with their conditions. If you disagree, you don't buy it. Simple.
"Standing up for Your Rights" seems now to be a euphemism for "Not taking responsibility for your actions". Bad form all around.
I am a Karma Library.
Only in the software business does this perverse atitude exist.
;) )
Modifing an existing product and selling the modification is a true american princepal.
Examples:
You buy a new car and figure out a way to increase its horsepower with $20 dollars worth of parts, and procede to sell the modification kits on ebay for $30 dollars. Not only is this very very legal, it is also quite widespread (car fanatics are everywhere
You buy a portable gaming system that for reasons totally unknown has no backlight, and design one and sell it on your own website. Huh, never heard of this one, huh?
Wake up, no matter what some silly EULA says, aftermarket modifications that you spend your time on are yours. If you spend 80 hours on a modification, and its completly your own work, no judge would let a company steal those rights from you because of some contract you did not sign before the sale. If you sign a contract before the sale, now, thats entirely different.
You sir are a retarded troll, sorry.
Mr. AC, at no point in your entire speech did you even come close to what can be considered a reasonable thought, and we all stupider for having heard it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
The EULA says they assign you the right to make mods and share them. It also says Inogrames/Bioware ha[s|ve] the right to revoke that right...provided they are not using or distributing your mods at the time of revokation.
I am merely pointing out that by agreeing to the EULA, you're agreeing that Infogrames/Bioware can revoke rights you both agree you have (purportedly to make playing the game a better experience) before they start using or distributing your mods. And, you are also agreeing that after they revoke those rights, they can use or distribute your mods but you no longer can.
I have no clue where you get anything about not taking responsibility for one's actions...that's either a troll or a ridiculous leap of logic.
I advocate you know what you are agreeing to before you agree to it...I think that actually qualifies as taking responsibility for one's actions...not the opposite, as you imply.
Level designers do this all the time. It's a nice sure way of ensuring posterity and guarantees people will pay some attention to the name of the author.
I'm sure Bioware is just covering it's butt for the case where somebody felt they weren't given 'enough' credit. Put a nice easter egg in your maps which clearly identifies you as the author and you'll be guranteed your authorship will be hard to remove even accidentally.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
While the enforceability of EULAs is still being tested in the courts and tweaked by the likes of UCITA, it is copyright law that dominates, here. Copyright law grants to the author the exclusive right to create derivative works. You cannot mod, so to speak, "Gone With the Wind."
There was (and may still be) a group working on a Matrix FPS mod. It's a waste of time, because Warner Bros. has granted an exclusive Matrix license to a commercial game company. If the mod is any good, it will be suppressed, just like the Alien TC for Doom.
The NWN EULA adds to, rather than detracts from, fair use. I just don't find the additional grants compelling.
I am merely pointing out that by agreeing to the EULA, you're agreeing that Infogrames/Bioware can revoke rights
OK, and what if I don't agree to the EULA?
I install the software anyway (perfectly legal under First Sale and Fair Use doctrines), use it to make my own mod (which is 100% my own work).
What then?
What then?
Well, then you are either too small for Infogrames/Bioware to be bothered, or they sue you and you get to defend your position in court. If you are willing to do that, go for it. The more litigation that smacks down EULAs we get, the more precedent...mo' betta.
Just remember you're taking a gamble that they won't mind or that you can afford to keep paying your lawyer(s) as long as they can keep you in court.
I wasn't trolling, but I was complaining.
Companies are well within their rights to stipulate any restrictions on the use of their products. If the consumers don't like it, they shouldn't consume it.
The post I responded to seemed (to me) to imply that Infogrames'/Bioware's conditions were somehow underhanded. I disagree.
I am a Karma Library.
And you have to understand that everyone else's complaint is that *WE* have a right to be aware of these restrictions before money exchanges hands.
*YOU* are aware of these restrictions.
So, what's the problem?
I am a Karma Library.
For me it is not that simple. Using a free os is important. I believe that a os should be a free and accessible right for all people like education. Luxury items like games are something I miss, but I can live without them. If I want to play a game I cannot simply use a commercial os. That would go against everything that I believe it. It would be like sending me children to private school, or buying products known to be made in sweatshops.
I would like to make content for NWN, and I would like the ability to distribute it how I like, and retain my own copyright (preventing Bioware from taking away my rights - they may if they wish agree licensing terms with me for my copyrighted work).
So, I buy NWN, take it home, fire up the installer and then I get my flatmate to click the 'accept the license agreement' button. Next, I play NeverWinterNights, and use their tools to create my own content. I distribute my new content *without any of their original content whatsoever* included.
Problem solved? I'm not sure.
1] Is it possible to distribute NWN content without any original content?
2] Is there an EULA clause saying 'If you install this software, you may not allow anyone else to play the game, or use the tools?'
The first question is whether a work is derivative. Much of the debate over the "viral" nature of the GNU GPL is actually a debate over what constitutes a derivative work. Does inclusion of a header constitute derivation? What about a plugin, which may essentially use a naming convention?
I don't know the ins and outs of NWN modules, but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that one could be held to be derivative.
What "Rights" exactly. You buy the game if you agree with their conditions. If you disagree, you don't buy it. Simple.
With most software, you don't get to *read* the EULA until you've already bought it, opened the box, broken the shrink-wrap on the CD case, and started to install it.
Then you get to read the EULA in a little tiny scrolling textbox.
If you agree to their conditions, fine, you click on "Accept" and you continue the installation.
If you disagree, you stop the install, and immediately run into a problem. Most stores won't take opened software back - unless the media is defective (IE: the cds are scratched and won't run). Depending on the store, you *might* be able to convince the manager to allow the return - but most of the time they'll point at their "store policy" which says you can't return it.
So...what to do? You can't generally go to the manufacturer, as they don't take returns of software purchased elsewhere. You can't return it to the store you purchased it from, for the reasons above. You're basically stuck with software that you won't install, and can't get a refund for.
In most other industries, if you have to agree to a contract before using a product, that contract is offered up front, before purchase, and your point is valid -- "Don't like it, don't buy it". But with software, in most cases, it's quite tough to do that.
Kudos to Bioware for actually publishing the EULA for review *before* purchase, at least for those who can find it. People who don't know it's published, or who pick NWN up as an "impulse buy" are still in the same sticky situation.
do they have to distribute all my sources with any distribution they produce?
mod this down, too.
so why not just make a EULA for your module that says by clicking and accepting to play, download, modify, or view code from this campaign/mod you are agreeing not to commercially distribute or redistribute this Mod with out express contact or contractual agreement seperate from any previous contract or EULA provided with NWN or any other software distribution to do with the game. Thus if they want to put it on a CD they're gonna wanna play the mod first or at least look at it.. so once they do that they've agreed to your EULA.. just like you agreed to theirs. Now they've got to make seperate contact with you. If you're worried about their EULA interfereing with your's since you obviously agreed to theirs before you made the MOD, then just work your EULA referring to the RPG experience and your story and characters. Thus to use the mod they have to use the story if they want. Now they don't interfere cause your EULA doesn't refer to the toolkit
Who makes you Sig?
Well, we won't get the game until October/November. There's a good chance that our version will not be compatible with the PC/Linux version. There's a real good chance that we won't even get the toolkit, and if we do, we still have this EULA hanging over our heads.
At least you guys get to play it soon.
-------------------------------------------------
Let me restate the poster's (assumed) position more clearly and forcefully.
Bioware has a responsibility to inform all of its potential customers of the stipulations of the EULA before accepting their money. Since they have not done so (like, by clear labeling on the box), their "contract" is null and void. When I pay money for a box and take it out of the store, I can do whatever I want to with it.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
While I want to start by saying that it's -quite- keen that Bioware is listening to their customers, I was pondering this EULA, and there were some things that troubled me about it.
I began to think about the ramafications of this EULA, and then wondered how it would affect those using their software. It dawned on me, what if you applied this EULA to another piece of software? Does anyone do anything similar?
So, what if our "favorite" company, MicroSoft, applied this EULA to their popular Office suite? You may use MS Word to create all the letters, papers, books, documents, etc. that you like. But, if you print them out and share, fax, or electronically transmit said works, they become property of MicroSoft Corporation.
...
Thought provoking, huh?
Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
You're distributing material that tells the engine to use their copyrighted textures, models... Unless when you save a module it also saves the textures, models, etc. in your module file. (I'm assuming that it doesn't as that would make the modules huge, right?)
It's kind like saying that because you used MS office to write your term paper, that MS owns the copyright to it. Which of course makes no sense.
umm, I do believe that their technical requirements were only available FOR WINDOWS, which would lead ONE TO BELIEVE that they HADNT FINISHED the other two OS's yet!
And games DO get scrapped up until production time. Its pretty common, however sucky. At least this one WILL come out, and the linux users will get the linux copy for free (a download, I believe) along with the Windows version.
Mac, on the otherhand, I am thinking is a seperate purchase.
And I DO follow "the community" as you put it, as I have been hyping the "linux support" to a friend of mine for about the past 2 years or so. It SUCKS they arent releasing it straight away, but I'd rather have it for their OS of choise then to wait for two other ports.
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
Companies are well within their rights to stipulate any restrictions on the use of their products. If the consumers don't like it, they shouldn't consume it.
If you believe this, you don't know ANYTHING about how the real world works.
Suppose if a car company put put the phrase "By driving your car, you agree to give Ford Inc. your first born child, to use in it's new Asian Sweatshop." in it's "End User Driving Agreement", then everybody would have to give Ford their kids?
In a word - NO.
Well, I guess, I'll then just make it publicly available again.
Exactly. Being aware of these restrictions because we happen to be involved in a discussion about them is in no way the same as if, say, there's a blip on the local news about some obscure requirement added after you've purchased a car. It doesn't mean jack unless they put it in writing and you agree to it at the time of purchase.
They did so when they shelled out money for the right to do derivative D&D works. How about following their example, and either accept the term, or exercise your right to find some other venue?
And for those of you who claim you have the "right" to your own derivative Bioware work, where is your license to do so? Did you engage in negotiation and sign a contract? The answer most likely is no.
What "Rights" exactly. You buy the game if you agree with their conditions. If you disagree, you don't buy it. Simple.
/. Everyone was pissed at the fact that Bioware claimed that they could distribute mods that you create and also prohibit you from distributing them, essentially stealing your mods. They tried to claim that the EULAs for most popular games do this, but every single example they gave got shot down because they were just plain wrong. This new EULA is only a slight improvement in that area. It still seems to allow them to revoke your right to distribute your mods, and then they can proceed to distribute the mod themselves. That's really not an improvement as far as I'm concerned, and I intend to write another email to the guy from Bioware to let him know this. Hopefully they will revise it again to correct the problem.
Or, in this case, if you don't agree with the terms, you let Bioware know that you don't, and why. That's what happened when the original story ran here on
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
A lot of times I heard that "clicky" EULAs can't be enforced in most countries and that the USA is one of the few that allows them. How much truth is there in that? If I release my mod in Switzerland and distribute it from Swiss servers, can I sue Bioware for compensation if they try to sell it? Without the EULA, regular Swiss and international copyright law should apply, right?
First of all I am glad that the EULA has been changed and seems to meet better approval. We really should thank them for doing this. Unlike Blizzard Bioware have listened to their customers and have not sued them.
But, people are wondering about the Linux port, so here is what we know:
"The PC version of Neverwinter Nights will ship to retailers before the end of June. Linux gamers can anticipate the online release of the Neverwinter Nights server at launch and the client program shortly afterward. Linux gamers will still need the Windows version of the game to register at the Neverwinter Nights community site (http://neverwinternights.com) and to import essential game resources into their Linux server and game."
Thats from the press release, this was followed in the forums that Bioware are going to release those, but no mention is made about maintainability, we do not know if they are going to keep the Linux version up to date.
NeverWinter Nights is right now appearing in stores, and from what I heard the server version for Linux should be available this week.
To set minds at ease we figured that you need the Windows version to register the game as it contains the CD key, as well as the game data. We just await the installers.
StarTux
Bioware has responsability to inform all of its potential customers of the stipulations of the EULA before accepting their money
I agree 100%
Since they have not done so (like, by clear labeling on the box)...
Here we disagree. All they need to do is refer to it in a "See our web site" kind of way. It is the consumer's responsability to look into this in detail.
their contract is null and void. When I pay money for a box and take it out of the store, I can do whatever I want with it.
Their contract is null and void because they didn't spoonfeed it to you? When you pay money for a box it is your responsability to know exactly what you are paying money for. This information is made public for you. If you can't/won't check it out, you shouldn't buy the product.
I am a Karma Library.
When you "serve" a NWN module, the players have to download it first. Ergo, there is no way to server w/o distributing.
Well, any restrictions which do not break any relevant laws. Clearly.
For example, Ford could say "By driving this car, you agree to give Ford inc. all your shoes"
Legal, but who'd buy Ford?
I am a Karma Library.
Ok, they made changes, but exactly what changes?
Perhaps some industrious soul could post a diff between the old and new EULAs?
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Nonsense. When money changes hands, THAT is the contract. If they do not secure my agreement before they accept my money, they don't get to change the deal after that fact.
The box doesn't even SAY "see our web site for what you'll have to agree to in order to not get dicked." Well, at least no game I've ever looked at does. If NWN is different, I'll eat my hat.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
embed your name in any custom graphics you create or name all the NPC's in the game after family and friends.
I did that in my D&D modules way back when, of course it wasn't to protect any IP rights I might have had.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
There has been consideration, though; you have supplied your original content, they have licensed the use of the toolkit to you. If the toolkit were actually sold to you when you first... uh, let's say "legally obtained" the game ;)... then there would be no consideration, true. If you are only licensing the use of the software, then there is.
If it is settled in the courts that a)software is indeed licensed and not bought, and b)EULAs are a legally enforceable contract, both of which conditions could easily go either way, then this would be legitimate, if odious, condition (IMHO, IANAL).
I've got to say it... the only way you can be sure you're not giving up your copyright in this specific application is not to accept the EULA, and the only ironclad way not to do that is not to distribute modules you wrote using it. That's obviously not an argument that most people want to hear, though, they just want to find a way to use the software & distribute modules without handing over any rights under the EULA.
So okay, here is one :). Write yourself a novel, screenplay, or other recognized IP with clearly described settings and characters, preferably artwork. Publish the work, or register it with the Copyright office (strictly speaking this isn't a necessary step, but it'd make things easier in a legal slugfest). NOW create and distribute your modules.
Bioware could probably still stop you from selling or maybe even distributing (iffier) those modules because of their IP, but they could NOT sell the modules themselves without your permission, because you have already established the copyright independently.
Of course, it could be argued that your original content is original and therefore copyright even if its first use was in a NWN module, and I think that was your point (an excellent one, BTW). If the copyright existed before the module, though, it would (again, IMHO & IANAL) be completely bulletproof.
Fair enough. If it doesn't give any hint to the conditions, I'll eat your hat.
Personally, I think the usual small print is deliberatley too small. "Terms and conditions apply" is a bit too vague, but that's the consumers' problem (although it's the producers' fault).
I am a Karma Library.
I never liked "caveat emptor" as a corporate policy. Of course, it is wise to investigate your purchases thoroughly, but that doesn't make it ethical to exploit people who do not.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Here's a potential solution for mod writers who don't want Bioware to cop the rights to their work. Simply add your own EULA to the mod when you distribute it. This license can say something to the effect of "this mod may be redistributed free of charge, as long as this file is included with it. Under no circumstances shall this mod be offered for sale, rent, lease, or included in any collection offered for sale, rent, or lease without the express permission of the author." That way, the issue becomes a matter of competing EULAs, which would most likely take a court battle to resolve. Bioware would probably rather not include the mod than run the risk of a costly lawsuit that could potentially invalidate an important part of their EULA.
On stereophonic equipment, the monaural sound obtained through multiple channels will enhance your listening pleasure.
"The PC version of Neverwinter Nights will ship to retailers before the end of June. Linux gamers can anticipate the online release of the Neverwinter Nights server at launch and the client program shortly afterward. Linux gamers will still need the Windows version of the game to register at the Neverwinter Nights community site (http://neverwinternights.com) and to import essential game resources into their Linux server and game."
If the Linux version comes out later, and we need the windows version to register and import "essential game resources", does that mean we have to buy it twice?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
See, the reason they can supposedly claim 'no lending' in an EULA is because some idiot Federal judge back in the 80s ruled that installing or running software involved making a copy.
Making a copy, but not infringing copyright. For one thing, a good attorney could make a reasonable case for fair use. For another, Sheetrock pointed out that after the judge decided that case, Congress overturned the law on which the decision was based by enacting 17 USC 117.
Lending of software, on the other hand, is prohibited by 17 USC 109 except for video game console software and for lending by nonprofit libraries and nonprofit educational institutions.
Will I retire or break 10K?
No, you buy it once. I picked up mine this afternoon and I went to the website and entered the registration number... now I presume when the downloadable linux binaries come out, I can just download them.
I still cant play Mario on the Genesis
Yes you can. You can play as Mario Andretti in racing, or you can play as Mario Lemieux in hockey.
Oh, you wanted to play as Nintendo's Mario character. In that case, try this ROM for the Genesis.
Will I retire or break 10K?
There is no such thing.
The law is a long way from perfect.
Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.
You could enter into a contract with Ford that said that, but such a contract would have to be part of the purchase. (i.e. Not stipulated after the fact)
Ford can say "If you want to buy this car, you must enter into this contract". If you agree, and sign it, then it's legal.
They can't sell you the car and then say "Oh, by the way, if you ever drive this car...". You have already made the purchase, the car is now yours. Ford no longer has legal rights to it, and cannot impose additional restrictions.
Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.
Or its been moved.
Which forum was it posted in?
You could enter into a contract with Ford that said that, but such a contract would have to be part of the purchase. (i.e. Not stipulated after the fact)
Obviously. Who has said otherwise?
In the case of NWN, Bioware have made their conditions public before sale. The "See terms and conditions" note on the box covers this. The exact details can easily be found in their literature.
There is nothing underhanded going on here.
I am a Karma Library.
People who do not know exactly what they are spending their money on (i.e. the most of us) have no right to complain afterwards. Laziness does not exempt one from legal contracts.
Taking advantage of suckers may not be ethically sound, but it has been the backbone of many businesses for a long, long time.
I am a Karma Library.
That's the problem - there was no legal contract. A legal contract is what you have to sign when you take out a loan for a house or car, or accept employment somewhere. Do you think there is a court anywhere that would uphold a 'click-throuh' agreement on a home loan? Of course not, because it's not a legal contract. If it isn't in that case, it isn't in the case of software, either.
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
/IT IS NOT A LEGAL CONTRACT/. Legal contracts happen BEFORE money changes hands.
Remind me never to buy anything from you. If you're not a savvy enough businessperson to make money in an ethically sound manner, then you shouldn't be in business.
Cheat to win is not an acceptable way to run a business.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Their conditions were available before the product was on sale. They may not have been plastered on the box, nor written in clear english, but they were available.
I am a Karma Library.
5. Infogrames' and BioWare's Use of Variations. If you Distribute, or permit others to Distribute, your Variations, you hereby grant back to Infogrames and BioWare an irrevocable royalty-free right to use and distribute such Variations by any means, and to make such modifications thereto as Infogrames and/or BioWare deem are necessary to package, combine, and otherwise distribute such Variations. If you do not wish to grant these rights to Infogrames and BioWare, you must not Distribute your Variations (although you may Serve your Modules). Infogrames and BioWare will make a reasonable effort to provide credit to you in the event it uses or distributes your Variations, but you acknowledge that identifying you and/or other Variation creators may be difficult, and any failure by Infogrames and/or BioWare to provide credit to any person shall not be a breach of this License and shall not limit Infogrames' or BioWare's rights to use and distribute any Variation.
Anyone accepting this EULA grants Bioware the right to steal their IP on any mods they make. Given that several other mods have gone on to make their creators money (Tactial Ops for UT, Counter Strike for Half-Life, etc.) this is a TERRIBLE thing. Don't buy this game if you plan on modding it, because you're going to get screwed in the end if you plan on ever making a profit (kinda like GPL'd software)
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I haven't seen the NWN box, so I can't comment on the specific case, but most boxes just say:
The sale takes place between you and the vendor, when you hand over your cash, and they let you take possession of the product. There is no indication that you have entered into any contract, other than an exchange of goods for payment.
This is somewhat like the the Ford having a sticker on it that says "You agree to abide by all terms and conditions as found the glove box", when the glove box is locked, and you don't read them, or sign anything regarding them at the time of purchase.
The legality is questionable, the ethics more so.
In this case BioWare has done the decent thing of making the EULA public so can review it before you buy. But you don't actually sign it, and you don't need to assent to it in order to purchase the product, so for those who don't read the BioWare forums, it amounts to conditions imposed after the purchase.
It's common practice in software, but that doesn't make it (necessarily) legal, nor does it might it right.
The CD + Manual, etc are yours. You can do what every you like with them as long as you do not infringe the author's copyright.
BioWare (et al) rely on the belief that the software is useless to you unless they grant you specific rights regarding copying. i.e. They hold that you can't run the software without copying it (into memory) and you don't have the right to do that unless you agree to their licence.
There have been arguments (and precendents, I believe) on both sides. Some argue that loading a program into memory is fair use - e.g. If you purchase a magazine, then it is illegal to make copies of th articles and give them to your friends, but it is legal (fair use) to photocopy an article so that you can make notes on it.
The upshot is that you don't have to agree to the EULA, but it's not entirely clear what rights you possess until you do.
And, no, I'm not sure what this has to do with Ford contracts any more :)
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