Not to flame it up in here, but I really take issue with the term "appease". To appease those of you who dare to complain about our screwjob, we will give you refunds IFF you get us your information within two weeks from today...
Very poor customer service. THIS is why Galaxies sucks so hard these days...it's the people at the top of the chain.
Full Sail and Digipen regarded as jokes? If that's true then why are 80% of the Student Showcase games at GDC coming from the combination of both schools? Both schools are fully accredited and both turn out great talent who are ready to work today, not in six months after the house who hired a CS grad on who still needs to "learn" how to make a game.
Face it folks, while Comp Sci per se isn't about programming alone, most CS grads can't code worth crap. I am sick of the students who just want to get into CS for the money. People who read this are probably not in the joke category, but know someone who is. Can I get an amen?
I am not a student at Full Sail, Digipen or "Cogswell", but where are the people from "Your School" working in the game industry?
Hahaha, what a joke. There are tons of Full Sail grads working in the game industry. In fact, there are like 3 grads working on Quake 4 right now. I don't know about those sites, but gimme a break.
There are actual benefits to these kinds of degrees. In particular the students who attend Full Sail get a strong foundation in software engineering as well as some of the most important aspects of game development that nobody will ever tell you like...not to expect everyone to bow down to the great designer that you are right out of school. The students that come out are humble and hardworking and quick a number of them take jobs right away.
Interestingly I beleive TSR actually had used the term Hobbits in D&D at one point and when approached by Tolkiens reps, they backed down and removed the content.
Of course you are right about the limitations. We only have so much memory no matter how many servers we pick up to carry the load. We can't simulate real life and who would want to play unless it was totally the matrix.
My main point about the D&D rules is that the calculations have been heavily tested. If you assume that they didn't just use rand() to calculate the die rolls, the system mimicks a face to face game. I would love to be able to do whatever, but it's just not feasible for people to play that way. It would be much more consuming. Just look at how much work it is to play the Sims.. (relatively speaking of course)
I disagree with your point. Those systems work perfectly fine and they are open. That similariy makes it easy for people to transition back and forth without major problem.
If we are talking strictly RPG, what better system could be devised than a heavily playtested ruleset from the most popular RPG of all time?
The focus you speak about is really what I see as a cutting weakness in most game designs. We try to focus the player far too much and don't encourage exploration. One of the things that makes GTA3 such a cool game is that you can play however you want. Roleplaying from a paper perspective is all about imagination, but those focuses systems like Diablo using glowing rollovers for items makes it just a "follow the glowing stuff". There is no searching just a bunch of mouse clicking. That's a cutting weakness imo.
I agree with the GBA stuff so far and wanted to add another point on top. Battery life was a major point to shipping without a light, but the other major point is that Japan is a commuter country. Most people take long train rides twice a day and have little to do while on the train. This is the reason that cell phone games are so hot there. GBA is also a hot item in Japan. The original machine was made for these kinds of people who travelled in the day and needed no additional light. American can buy their own light attachement if they needed one.
I did an Arkanoid clone in 4 hours in a class at Full Sail. I think that the game industry is going to care about quality and speed of development, not the school you come from. You either have the chops or you don't. Most of the big names in the game industry don't have degrees either.
Well I guess the proof would be in the graduates and not in the opinion of a high schooler. The placement rate for the game development program is close to 75% right now. One of the things that is important about the placement department at Full Sail is that it is a benefit for life. Seriously, you can get placement help for as long as the school is still in business, which to date is 23 years.
Another thing that Full Sail offers as a benefit for life is that ability to retake classes from your degree program. This benefit is also for life. If a new engine or SDK is being taught, you can come back an retake the class for free. How many schools can you name that do that? I know of zero 4 year schools that give any crap about their grads until the alumni association wants donations. This benefit is for life as well.
Current Game grads from Full Sail are working at the following companies..coming from memory so I am sure I will miss a few. Note, these are gaming grads not for any other program....
Red Storm Interplay Paradigm Turbine EA-Tiburon N -Space Monkeystone Raven Angel/Rockstar Konami -Hawaii Zeitgeist Games Logical Vice
That's all I can remember, but I am painfully forgetting many, many more.
Bottom line, when you consider the benefits for life, the money isn't really that much. It only seems like alot of money to people who have little or no money (like me). You get out of the school what you put into it. There is no magical formula, but in the end, the school has your back and will continue to try to help you find work even after you have given up.
This life isn't for everyone, but that doesn't mean that you can't get alot of out attending a school like this.
After the way Bungie snuffed out Myth 2, I can see your second point being much more concievable. I don't think that they care much, they have the money already and at this point, it's maintenence which every developer knows is not much fun. Adding all the new features might just be a way to get some of the minimal stuff out the door or to bring people back to the game, or perhaps to run out their last print of the game. Who knows, but I do not put much stock in the need to prevent cheaters in D2. I think its actuall a message for Blizzard groupies about trying this kind of thing in Worlds of Warcraft or any of the other seminal titles they release.
I beleive that the comment I made about the big N might be wrong, but I am postive about Sony. They charge publishers an $8-$11 royalty on each copy of a game they produce. Note that's copies produced, not sold.
Either way, the console manufacturers are getting their money back in the long run anyways. If it cost them more to do it than they made, how could gaming be Sony's most profitable business?
I don't think you had to AC on this. Anyone in the biz can tell you this. You are only wrong on one thing... Sony makes buku bucks off the licensing royalty they charge per product. This is usually somewhere between $9-11 per copy produced, not sold. You sell a million games, they make $11 million. It's the whole secret of why people throw those boxes out the door and also why the games cost so much.
In an attempt to further control the controlling control schemes, they built the FU platform as a more direct way of marketing to thier moronic customer knowing full well that they would neven catch on!
Far lower distribution? We are totally footing the bill for the distribution with our net connections. Consider if you spend $50 a month on your network connection, you add $1.67 per day to the price. Of course you also get the rest of the day, but the point for me here is that the network connection is also part of the price that Apple isn't footing. Getting it down to $.50 will get many many more songs purchased.
Marvin Minsky gave a talk at GDC 2001 that emphasized the role of AI in games. It was mostly a promo for his book , but he took some time to address how important games were to learning and cited examples.
Check the following URL to view the entire keynote. Registation with Gamasutra may be required.
rtsp://media.cmpnet.com/gamasutra/minsky.rm
I think that it's great. I teach people how to program similar applications and a kit like this might be enough to sway someone into learning the real code and technique required without getting immediately frustrated.
DigiPen is not the only accreditted school instructing Game Development. There are several others including Full Sail in Orlando that are fully accredited with thier state organizations.
There is a list at the main page of the International Game Developers Association page listing all the schools instructing game design and development. www.igda.org
It's always cool to hear that these designers are still kicking. Game design seems to be like a disease in that you can't seem to stop making games even if you want to. It's cool to see Arneson working hard. I know that Gygax has some new stuff out as well...
The interesting thing that came up in a conversation the other day was that there is an entire generation of people who are growing up not paying for music.
I come from a generation that has been totally used to paying for things. For me there is a "guilt" syndrome about knowing that the music is made with profit in mind. So I am more willing to make purchases or delete.mp3s
How do you stay in business when no one sees a direct reason to pay you for the information they can readily get for free? It's a broken business model for sure and they are really fighting to stay alive in more ways than the average guy realizes.... It will be interesting to see what happens.
Well to be honest, it looks like Uncle Bill and the MS crew have managed on some fronts to not only convince people that computers are important components to have in their home, but that they indeed should be out online getting their info and playing games, etc.
The problem is with the attitude. There are definately ways to wrap up the geek bliss that is Linux and make it simple for someone like Uncle Jim Bob. The problem is that the people who are involved with the projects just don't seem to care.
Microsoft isn't the best from a technical point of view, but in the eyes of the average Joe, they do a great job of customer service and helping people out. This of course isn't always the case, but way the hell more than the RTFM cries of the irc channels....
Slashdot Mirror
Not to flame it up in here, but I really take issue with the term "appease". To appease those of you who dare to complain about our screwjob, we will give you refunds IFF you get us your information within two weeks from today...
Very poor customer service. THIS is why Galaxies sucks so hard these days...it's the people at the top of the chain.
Full Sail and Digipen regarded as jokes? If that's true then why are 80% of the Student Showcase games at GDC coming from the combination of both schools? Both schools are fully accredited and both turn out great talent who are ready to work today, not in six months after the house who hired a CS grad on who still needs to "learn" how to make a game.
Face it folks, while Comp Sci per se isn't about programming alone, most CS grads can't code worth crap. I am sick of the students who just want to get into CS for the money. People who read this are probably not in the joke category, but know someone who is. Can I get an amen?
I am not a student at Full Sail, Digipen or "Cogswell", but where are the people from "Your School" working in the game industry?
Hahaha, what a joke. There are tons of Full Sail grads working in the game industry. In fact, there are like 3 grads working on Quake 4 right now. I don't know about those sites, but gimme a break.
There are actual benefits to these kinds of degrees. In particular the students who attend Full Sail get a strong foundation in software engineering as well as some of the most important aspects of game development that nobody will ever tell you like...not to expect everyone to bow down to the great designer that you are right out of school. The students that come out are humble and hardworking and quick a number of them take jobs right away.
For examples, check these links:
http://www.tsbgames.com/
http://www.glaximus.com/
http://siggi.vefurinn.is/
Interestingly I beleive TSR actually had used the term Hobbits in D&D at one point and when approached by Tolkiens reps, they backed down and removed the content.
I ran a couple of steg algorihms on the images and I was able to decipher the following text message after several hours of number crunching...
"Help I am trapped in the server closet with this webcam as my only means of communication!"
Somebody help that poor guy!!!!!!
Of course you are right about the limitations. We only have so much memory no matter how many servers we pick up to carry the load. We can't simulate real life and who would want to play unless it was totally the matrix.
My main point about the D&D rules is that the calculations have been heavily tested. If you assume that they didn't just use rand() to calculate the die rolls, the system mimicks a face to face game. I would love to be able to do whatever, but it's just not feasible for people to play that way. It would be much more consuming. Just look at how much work it is to play the Sims.. (relatively speaking of course)
I disagree with your point. Those systems work perfectly fine and they are open. That similariy makes it easy for people to transition back and forth without major problem.
If we are talking strictly RPG, what better system could be devised than a heavily playtested ruleset from the most popular RPG of all time?
The focus you speak about is really what I see as a cutting weakness in most game designs. We try to focus the player far too much and don't encourage exploration. One of the things that makes GTA3 such a cool game is that you can play however you want. Roleplaying from a paper perspective is all about imagination, but those focuses systems like Diablo using glowing rollovers for items makes it just a "follow the glowing stuff". There is no searching just a bunch of mouse clicking. That's a cutting weakness imo.
If this is true, what the hell will they do when Half Life 2 comes out????
At this point, THAT game appears that it will set the new standard.....
I agree with the GBA stuff so far and wanted to add another point on top. Battery life was a major point to shipping without a light, but the other major point is that Japan is a commuter country. Most people take long train rides twice a day and have little to do while on the train. This is the reason that cell phone games are so hot there. GBA is also a hot item in Japan. The original machine was made for these kinds of people who travelled in the day and needed no additional light. American can buy their own light attachement if they needed one.
I did an Arkanoid clone in 4 hours in a class at Full Sail. I think that the game industry is going to care about quality and speed of development, not the school you come from. You either have the chops or you don't. Most of the big names in the game industry don't have degrees either.
Well I guess the proof would be in the graduates and not in the opinion of a high schooler. The placement rate for the game development program is close to 75% right now. One of the things that is important about the placement department at Full Sail is that it is a benefit for life. Seriously, you can get placement help for as long as the school is still in business, which to date is 23 years.
N -Spacei -Hawaii
Another thing that Full Sail offers as a benefit for life is that ability to retake classes from your degree program. This benefit is also for life. If a new engine or SDK is being taught, you can come back an retake the class for free. How many schools can you name that do that? I know of zero 4 year schools that give any crap about their grads until the alumni association wants donations. This benefit is for life as well.
Current Game grads from Full Sail are working at the following companies..coming from memory so I am sure I will miss a few. Note, these are gaming grads not for any other program....
Red Storm
Interplay
Paradigm
Turbine
EA-Tiburon
Monkeystone
Raven
Angel/Rockstar
Konam
Zeitgeist Games
Logical Vice
That's all I can remember, but I am painfully forgetting many, many more.
Bottom line, when you consider the benefits for life, the money isn't really that much. It only seems like alot of money to people who have little or no money (like me). You get out of the school what you put into it. There is no magical formula, but in the end, the school has your back and will continue to try to help you find work even after you have given up.
This life isn't for everyone, but that doesn't mean that you can't get alot of out attending a school like this.
After the way Bungie snuffed out Myth 2, I can see your second point being much more concievable. I don't think that they care much, they have the money already and at this point, it's maintenence which every developer knows is not much fun. Adding all the new features might just be a way to get some of the minimal stuff out the door or to bring people back to the game, or perhaps to run out their last print of the game. Who knows, but I do not put much stock in the need to prevent cheaters in D2. I think its actuall a message for Blizzard groupies about trying this kind of thing in Worlds of Warcraft or any of the other seminal titles they release.
I beleive that the comment I made about the big N might be wrong, but I am postive about Sony. They charge publishers an $8-$11 royalty on each copy of a game they produce. Note that's copies produced, not sold.
Either way, the console manufacturers are getting their money back in the long run anyways. If it cost them more to do it than they made, how could gaming be Sony's most profitable business?
Nobody is going to file any kind of complaint on those grounds because Nintendo and Sony do the exact same thing.
I don't think you had to AC on this. Anyone in the biz can tell you this. You are only wrong on one thing... Sony makes buku bucks off the licensing royalty they charge per product. This is usually somewhere between $9-11 per copy produced, not sold. You sell a million games, they make $11 million. It's the whole secret of why people throw those boxes out the door and also why the games cost so much.
In an attempt to further control the controlling control schemes, they built the FU platform as a more direct way of marketing to thier moronic customer knowing full well that they would neven catch on!
I couldn't resist!!!
Far lower distribution? We are totally footing the bill for the distribution with our net connections. Consider if you spend $50 a month on your network connection, you add $1.67 per day to the price. Of course you also get the rest of the day, but the point for me here is that the network connection is also part of the price that Apple isn't footing. Getting it down to $.50 will get many many more songs purchased.
Marvin Minsky gave a talk at GDC 2001 that emphasized the role of AI in games. It was mostly a promo for his book , but he took some time to address how important games were to learning and cited examples. Check the following URL to view the entire keynote. Registation with Gamasutra may be required. rtsp://media.cmpnet.com/gamasutra/minsky.rm
I think that it's great. I teach people how to program similar applications and a kit like this might be enough to sway someone into learning the real code and technique required without getting immediately frustrated.
It's good business.
Gosh I would love to cyber squat that domain!!!!
DigiPen is not the only accreditted school instructing Game Development. There are several others including Full Sail in Orlando that are fully accredited with thier state organizations.
There is a list at the main page of the International Game Developers Association page listing all the schools instructing game design and development. www.igda.org
It's always cool to hear that these designers are still kicking. Game design seems to be like a disease in that you can't seem to stop making games even if you want to. It's cool to see Arneson working hard. I know that Gygax has some new stuff out as well...
The interesting thing that came up in a conversation the other day was that there is an entire generation of people who are growing up not paying for music.
.mp3s
I come from a generation that has been totally used to paying for things. For me there is a "guilt" syndrome about knowing that the music is made with profit in mind. So I am more willing to make purchases or delete
How do you stay in business when no one sees a direct reason to pay you for the information they can readily get for free? It's a broken business model for sure and they are really fighting to stay alive in more ways than the average guy realizes.... It will be interesting to see what happens.
Well to be honest, it looks like Uncle Bill and the MS crew have managed on some fronts to not only convince people that computers are important components to have in their home, but that they indeed should be out online getting their info and playing games, etc.
The problem is with the attitude. There are definately ways to wrap up the geek bliss that is Linux and make it simple for someone like Uncle Jim Bob. The problem is that the people who are involved with the projects just don't seem to care.
Microsoft isn't the best from a technical point of view, but in the eyes of the average Joe, they do a great job of customer service and helping people out. This of course isn't always the case, but way the hell more than the RTFM cries of the irc channels....
The Linux community is it's own worst enemy.