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Cops Have Got Your Number
explosionhead writes "Salon has a nice article about the FBI's stretching their powers for phone taps under the 'Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act' and how this could apply to digital communication. The FCC tried to apply this 3 years ago, and it was fought off, but the article also comments that many of the Telcos were hesitant to argue this time around for fear of bad post Sept-11 publicity." We covered this when it happened, with a lot of good information if I do say so myself. Salon is now noting that no one is willing to challenge the revised FCC rules, running scared in the (dare I say it?) post-September 11 world.
When we're all behind bars.
As usual, a joke.
tcd004
We all know that if anyone makes any attempt to challenge any Post-September 11 legislation, they are anti-American, anti-patriotic and of course support and sympathize with terrorists.
As I have heard, read, and understood, the FBI has devices they can just SET near the wire/line and it picks it up via electrical waves outputted by the wire/line. So, in reality, it isnt really a 'wiretap'. I could see this as being a way to get around the law, or atleast cause a pain in the butt in courts. Of coarse Im no lawyer and Im most likely wrong. Anyone else ever hear about or see one of these devices?
In college, really poor, need a flatscreen.
///Salon is now noting that no one is willing to challenge the revised FCC rules, running scared in the (dare I say it?) post-September 11 world.///
Yes, you can say "post-Semtember 11 world" because the truth is, this event obviously had and will continue have life-changing, far-reaching effects and consequences on every American.
It is our job to make sure those effects evoke positive changes in our lifestyles, not negative ones, even in the short term.
Palaces, barricades, threats, meet promises
I remember a time, from ancient history, when there was a Democrat in the Whitehouse... much less "trust them, they are the government" rhetoric was heard at that time!
Did it occur to you these laws will be in place the next time a Democrat is elected?
-pyrrho
You know, its pretty sad when I think about this. The terrorists have won; no matter what we say. They wanted to force us to change our lives; they succeeded. They wanted us to give up our way of life; we have, or at least part of it. They wanted us to be afraid; we are, at least to some extent. If you see somebody walking down main street with a large trenchcoat now, your afraid. What might he be doing.
Terrorism will always succeed if we let them force us to change our ways, and give up some of our freedoms.
One of these days i'm going to find this 'peer' guy and reset HIS connection!
Yes, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You can pass all sorts of laws for the protection of the people that gives extra powers, but what then when the "bad guys" are the ones who control all this anti-citizen technology?
This isn't "commie red china" because it can't be. The laws are not (yet) in place to let it be.
Not being american i have to admit i have trouble understanding the post september 11 issue.. It amazes me that since that date the number of basic rights and civil liberties that have been ignored or thrown away in the cause of 'Patriotism' are so big.
it seems anything can be dismissed as post september 11 and be justifiable on the grounds of the war against terrorism...
meanwhile in palestine the IDF moves tanks back into refuge settlements to 'supress undesirable elements' and no one blinks ?
Tragedy that sept 11 was its no excuse to allow your rights and freedoms to be taken away from you and no excuse to not stand up for yourselves or others - America is supposed to be the land of the free and home of the brave - it seems worryinh that these days its increasingly not so free and only brave when backed by superior firepower.....
And am i the only one who thinks that the post septmeber 11 comment has been a great way for the FBI and CIA et al to get around all those niggling civil rights and civil liberties issues? just how long have they been able to do this anyway...
I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
I have no problem at all with the FBI and whoever (law enforcement wise at least) looking at call logs without a warrent. I think that would help a lot in crime fighting.
I DO have a problem with easier wire taps, the listening kind. For better or worse, at least when they record a call, it has to be important enough for an officer/agent etc to spend time listening to it. Manpower alone seems to me to be a significant level of check and ballance. They are not going to devote a "person" to listen to calls, unless they think it is important enough.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
The article brings to mind organizations like the ACLU who find themselves protecting some of the worst people out there (white supremacists, drug dealers, etc) in order to fight for the Bill of Rights.
/.ers and other techies who fight for privacy will not, in the greater scheme of things, be villified for appearing to protect terrorists for the sake of safe email accounts. That's a shortsighted argument. If the FBI wants extra powers to fight the bad guys, they should have no qualms about fighting for those powers in Congress or in our Court System.
In the end, I think
That's the great thing about our system. It's supposed to have the same rules for everybody.
Neat, huh?
-FC
The only thing I can possibly think of to respond to this is the words of Benjamin Franklin. "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither libery nor safety."
If we get rid of the Bill of Rights in order to prevent terrorists (or anyone else) from damaging us, haven't they accomplished what they set out to do?
I know this is probably picking a nit, but isn't the Republican (you know the supposedly conservative party) platform based around less government in the lives of Americans? Doesn't that mean you've now redefined that platform as liberal?
"Suppose you were an idiot..... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeate myself."
Someone posted a comment that more or less said "Why is this a problem? They're not after *you*, as such; they're after the *bad guys*."
Well, yes, it is a problem. I'm all for going after the bad guys, but remember, if this crisis ever ends, these powers will *not* be retracted.
Government usually only gets bigger, not smaller. And they don't easily give up powers once they've been granted. Perhaps the way Congress should be drafting these laws is that they need to come up on periodic review (kind of like the statute for Independent Counsels). At least if we have to tolerate this potential invasion now, then it could be repealed after a few years when things calm down.
I think it's important not to bind the hands of the FBI too much, but at the same time, someone needs to be looking ahead to when this crisis ends.
Another potential glimmer of hope is that the next administration might be influenced to cause a review to be done as part of his getting elected.
I guess we'll see...
"Sometimes the truth is stupid." - Lawrence, creator of Prime Intellect
Trust me, I know.
Soccer Goal Plans
Sorry, I replied to the wrong post.
Soccer Goal Plans
everyone has my phone number. Or those with a phonebook at least.
That's not the point - RTFA. Do they know who you called and when, or who called you and when? Do they know your personal PIN that you dial for your voice mail? Do they know the bank number that you just dialed into our phone to check your balance? This isn't about a "special phonebook" that the FBI has access to.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
"I don't imagine the FBI will abuse this because i'm sure..."
Trust us. We're from the government, and we're here to help.
The big deal is when Feds decide that you're partaking in certain "un-American" activities (like thinking for yourself, donating money to the ACLU, writing posts like this, etc) and decide to wiretap you. Big deal, right?--You're a good American, you go to work, pay your bills, buy stuff from Wal-Mart; there's nothing for them to find.
/. password, sorry.
But then you say something...Something controversial. It may be personal, politcal, sexual, or mildly criminal; it doesn't really matter because all it takes is a quick phone call to the local constabulary to have you hauled in front of the inquisition and black-listed for life. You'll find that certain opportunities are no longer available to you at this point.
God forbid that you're somebody important (somebody with enough money/power to matter), because it's a simple matter to convict someone in the media these days--just say the word "pedophile" and your career will evaporate.
I realize that some of this reaks of "Pinko-Liberalism" as my history professor once put it, but just remember that this has already happened before (Martin Luther King being the most prominent example with McCarthyism a close second).
Just remember that power is an end unto itself, and individuality is not a virtue in government.
I lost my
"[...] many of the Telcos were hesitant to argue this time around for fear of bad post Sept-11 publicity."
That list certainly couldn't include Qwest, as they've never yet shied away from any acts that got them bad publicity.
"There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."
e s/govt.html
-- James Madison, speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 16, 1788
"Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Ben Franklin, Respectfully Quoted, p. 201, Suzy Platt, Barnes & Noble, 1993
These were found at http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/quot
People who don't care about this since 9-11 are in trouble.
I'll just set up a quantum information link. If anyone tries to tap into my line, they'll collapse the wavefunction! If anyone tries to spy on me, I'll know that they've tampered with my qubits. All I need is an underground network of dedicated fibre optic links so I can talk to my good friends Alice and Bob. Who says quantum cryptography was a half-baked idea?
If I had to choose between death and loss of privacy, I choose loss of privacy. Even if it is just a significant chance of death, my choice is the same.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
The choice you're making is between the possibility that an otherwise successful investigation might be slowed down by the necessity to obtain legal authorization, and the certainty that oversight covering scrutiny of your personal life will be removed.
Essentially, they're selling you a false dilemma.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
with their refreshing naivete!
You are aware that a large part of the reason that FBI was, until recently, so well handcuffed was *because* they abused their powers by spying on and entrapping people who had nothing to do with terrorism?
While the agents out in the field are hard-working, good people, the bureaucracy that directs the FBI has proven itself, time and time again, to be not just untrustworthy but incompetent as well!
Well, that's not entirely true. Now any government around the world can follow the US's lead and exterminate any group that opposes them with impunity and call it "War on Terrorism" and say they are doing their part. Also you now have no right to be assumed innocent. You can be assumed terrorist without any real proof. Aint it grand?
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
I have to post as an AC because I work in Law Enforcement, but please hear me out.
We all know the problems that American intelligence agencies had before 9-11. They had information pointing towards the attacks, but compartmentalization meant the pieces were never put together.
As strange as it may sound, wouldn't an Open Source approach to intelligence have worked better? Think of we had used the peer review method on the intelligence reports? Millions of eyes looking at the data would have certainly connected the dots.
We don't need a secret "proprietary" approach to National Security, we need to Open Source what we know and let the tried and true methods of the Open Source community do its work.
Go ahead and mark me as a troll or redundant, but I read this piece recently and feel it is relevant. I care not for karm but would just wish more people considered this.
March 11, 2002
I think the vast differences in compensation between the victims of the September 11th casualty, and those who die serving the
country in uniform, are profound. No one is really talking about it either because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11th. Well, I just can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country.
If you lost a family member in the September 11th attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million. If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct death benefit, half of
which is taxable. Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry.
And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt. Keep in mind that some of the people that are getting an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough. We also learned over the weekend that some of the
victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11th families are getting. In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well.
You see where this is going, don't you? Folks, this is part and parcel of over fifty years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad. "Patriotism is not a short and renzied outburst of emotion but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime." --Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.
Every time when a pay raise comes up for the military they usually receive next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live in low rent housing. However our own U.S. Congress just voted themselves a raise, and many of you don't
know that they only have to be in Congress one-time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month and most are now equal
to be millionaires plus. They also do not receive Social Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the system.
If some of the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7 you may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed you in harms way receive a pension of
$15,000 per month. I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits
and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting.
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.
And Einstein...he was a real troublemaker.
The only people I can think of that have had their "Civil Rights violated" are illegal aliens with existing deportation orders from Al Qaeda based countries and a guy that looks like John Doe #2 who was planning to set off a radiological bomb after returning from the Middle East. People that do not deserve protection that an American Citizen is afforded in America. They are illegal combatants, they want you dead. They couldn't give a damn if you had Civil Rights in the first place. You are an American. Your country supports Israel. You live a decadent lifestyle. You are a legitimate target in their eyes and they don't follow the Geneva Convention.
As long as you are not a member of Al Qaeda or hanging out with Al Qaeda members at strip clubs and pilot training, you have nothing to worry about. The FBI, CIA and Homeland Security have more important things to do than tap your phone so they get the time and place of your next LAN party. Besides, you probably aren't important enough in the first place to warrant their attention.
Remember folks, we are in a war and the war zone is the United States. A war not against a nation state but a terrorist group that knows no borders. We are not going to win by making our law enforcement agencies toothless and blind.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
As the AC pointed out, I was indeed poking fun at the title. And, as the AC suggested, chill out.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
It's like asking, where would you prefer to die, in a car crash, or in a terrorists' attack.
The probability of the first is so much higher for any of us, second possibility is negligible, and if government really wants to save lives, it should fight unsafe cars, drunk drivers and stupid speed limits that no sane person would ever obey, and therefore no one knows what the real safe limits are.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
In a democracy, we are all responsible for our government's actions. Some may say that the last presidential elections were rigged in Florida, but that only makes a difference if they were rigged in a lot of other states too. Sorry, there was only one brother. George W. Bush was more or less democratically elected, and much more so than the Taleban Mullah Omar or Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
So here we are in a democratic state. What does that mean? Well, not just armed forces are valid targets for the terrorist mindset. If the average US voter disagreed with current middle-eastern policy, then maybe Osama wouldn't be so resentful or attract so much support for his attacks on civillians.
Until now, many people were not aware of the ramifications of international policy decisions. Some people who travelled were already aware, but they were a minority.
Should people back down, well no. However think about what effects that foreign policy has and try to work out whether that policy is worth your support and tell your elected representatives. Foreign policy should be more than just who gets what juicy contract.
Oh and a final point is that if your country has a military force made up largely from reservists like Israel, it becomes very difficult to decide who, apart from children doesn't represent a target to a terrorist. Most males between 18 and 50 or so are serving one month a year in the army, same for women up to the birth of their children. Can you see a terrorist understanding "Sorry don't shoot or bomb me, I'm not wearing my uniform"?
Everybody has something to hide. It may be something unpopular you said, it may be associating with somebody you didn't know was a felon, it may be smoking pot. Whatever. There's a law against nearly everything on the book just waiting to be enforced in order to be used as leverage. As laws get passed in the future it will only get worse.
In addition, with more information being available to more people there is a greater risk of your info being used for illegitmate purposes such as fraud and identity theft. IIRC there was a recent case of an FBI agent using information in the FBI database to gain leverage over financial dealers for his financial gain.
I wish people wouldn't be so darn naive and trusting of those in power.
-plain and simple. 99% of all actions done by the government and people of the US since 911 have been based on a reflex due to fear.
It has been many generations that the US has fought a war on its mainland. The idea that anyone could hurt the nation so much was horrific - that's why the media keep saying that "We'll never be the same."
While the fear has a basis, the trick is to balance the reactions to the fear so that the cure is not worse than the malady. We also have to be watchful that not every single pork barrel projects or favorite political initiatives get shoved through on the tide of such fears.
Fortunately, there are still some principled and rational journalists and organizations who are brave enough to speak out for such balances. So BE SURE TO SUPPORT THEM. Send in that donation to ACLU and others fighting for your rights!