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Lucas Confuses ScummVM With Abandonware

Anonymous Coward writes: "Seems LucasArts finally noticed ScummVm although they seem to be confused about what it is. ScummVM is a 'virtual machine'(yes like Java) that allows you to play scumm games (Monkey Island, for example) in modern OS (Linux, BSD, err Windows XP) and weird machines like PDAs and the Dreamcast, but Lucas have confused them with an abandonware site."

154 of 234 comments (clear)

  1. Perhaps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Lucas should stick to making cheesy kids films that require no intelligence, and leave the thinking to men without beards?

    1. Re:Perhaps by Tet · · Score: 1
      Lucas should stick to making cheesy kids films that require no intelligence, and leave the thinking to men without beards?

      You mean men like David Miller, Alan Cox, Al Viro, etc... :-)

      --
      "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
    2. Re:Perhaps by DaDigz · · Score: 1

      You're forgetting that all serious geeks are required to grow a hacker beard.. :)

      --
      Those who will sacrifice Freedom and Security will get Windows...
  2. Ha ! by selderrr · · Score: 1

    If it's about scum, it MUST have something to do with Jar-Jar Binks.

    has anyone come up yet with a DNA test ? My guess is George isn't the cute boy he pretends to be !

  3. Original software still required by Twylite · · Score: 3, Informative

    An unfortunately oversight on the part of the ScummVM representative, was the failure to mention that to use ScummVM you still require the original (LucasArts) software!

    Had this be pointed out, along with the fact that ScummVM extends the accessibility of the original software beyond its original platform, it may make it less likely that the lawyers will respond with tougher measures.

    --
    i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    1. Re:Original software still required by noz · · Score: 1

      Well noted. I think this is an important point. Also to mention is the fact that ScummVM is creating a layer for portability for old LucasArts product, expanding their target market and increasing their exposure. Everybody wins.

    2. Re:Original software still required by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 1
      "An unfortunately oversight on the part of the ScummVM representative, was the failure to mention that to use ScummVM you still require the original (LucasArts) software! Had this be pointed out, along with the fact that ScummVM extends the accessibility of the original software beyond its original platform, it may make it less likely that the lawyers will respond with tougher measures."

      It was probably so obvious to the developers and community that it never occred to them that this point had to be spelled out.

      But hey, I never knew that this existed! Perhaps I will play LOOM and the original Secret of Monkey Island on Linux now. Excellent!!

    3. Re:Original software still required by Twylite · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I was considering pointing out that everyone does not necessarily win. In particular, LucasArts.

      A number of gaming companies (EA in particular) have percesuted AbandonWare sites precisely because they intend to improve and rerelease old classics for newer architectures - in effect doubling the life (and revenue) of the product.

      On the Copyright side this is particularly sad: Copyright was never intended as a tool to allow owners to prevent access; it was intended to allow the owner to benefit (financially) from the work during its useful lifetime. But there are no provisions in Copyright law which force material to be placed in the public domain when it is no longer being used (or even when Copyright expires!).

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    4. Re:Original software still required by Ndr_Amigo · · Score: 5, Informative

      I believe I did mention both of these points, in the second paragraph... In any case, this first volly seems to be a simple misunderstanding regarding the nature of ScummVM... However I fully expect LucasArts to probably persue legal action now they are aware it's more than simply abandonware. I'm being hopeful that they will just drop it, but the legal teams of the wonderful Lucas group of companies seem to be very trigger-happy when it comes to lawsuits. This first letter wasn't actually a legal threat. They have already asked SourceForge to remove our site, but hopefully it won't come to that. Their original letter was asking for the removal of something that simply doesn't exist - downloadable copies of LucasArts software. At least that wonderful four letter acronym we all have come to love and hate (you know, the one beginning with 'D' that sounds like a Village People song?) hasn't come into it. Yet. (Oh, and to reply to another reply regarding my grammer and spelling.. hey, I wrote the response after waking up at 6am, rolling over and noticing the flashing message in my ssh session :) - James 'Ender' Brown Project Leader, ScummVM (Doesn't this sound all official?)

    5. Re:Original software still required by Ndr_Amigo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Simple excuse. I'm Australian. Mate!
      (And my excuse for other Australians is that I'm Tasmanian.)
      ((And my excuse for Tasmanians is that... oh never mind, it's probably from YOUR side of the family anyway)).

      - James 'Ender' Brown
      Lead Developer, ScummVM
      Disclaimer: Neither ScummVM nor /. is responsible for the bad injokes used within this message.

    6. Re:Original software still required by Speare · · Score: 3, Interesting

      • On the Copyright side this is particularly sad: Copyright was never intended as a tool to allow owners to prevent access; it was intended to allow the owner to benefit (financially) from the work during its useful lifetime.

      You're right that Copyright (as developed in the US Constitution as 'exclusive Right to their respective Writings') is not intended as a stick to beat the ass of society. However, you're referring to Copyright's purpose as if it were the goal. Copyright is not a goal, but a carrot to entice the ass of society to release their writings in the first place.

      Justice O'Connor said in 1991, "The primary objective of copyright is not to reward the labor of authors, but '[t]o promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts.'"

      To advance the arts and sciences, one must actually release what you've written or discovered. Many authors won't release their writings without some assurance in the form of Copyright. Many discoverers won't release their discoveries without some assurance in the form of Patents. Both are intended as temporary assurances to promote the writers and discoverers to advance their arts and sciences.

      --
      [ .sig file not found ]
    7. Re:Original software still required by deebaine · · Score: 2

      Had this be pointed out, along with the fact that ScummVM extends the accessibility of the original software beyond its original platform, it may make it less likely that the lawyers will respond with tougher measures.

      I wish this were true. Unfortunately, the perceived nobility or helpfulness of a copyright infringement does not free the lawyers from their responsibility. As explained to me by our attorneys when we were confronted with issues of how and where to protect ourselves with trademarks and copyrights, a copyright holder is required to make a reasonable effort to prevent infringement. Failure to do so weakens the copyright and may set a precedent that will be damaging in a different case. Hence, if the company perceives infringement, they essentially must pursue it even if they don't actually mind that it is going on.

      For a real world example, our attorney used Kleenex and Xerox. Kleenex made little effort to combat the use of "kleenex" in the general lexicon; hence no one could sue you for saying "pass me a kleenex" even if you were referring to a box of Puffs. By contrast, Xerox aggressively (and largely successfully) combated the general use of "Xerox" as in "Xerox these papers for me." Hence, while still reasonably common, it is far from ubiquitous and Xerox retains the strength of its mark.

      That said, I would much prefer if LucasArts had sent a letter that said, "here's a self-addressed, stamped envelope, and a licensing agreement. Sign the agreement and enclose a check for $1.00 and we're square," but that, I think doesn't happen. One hopes that ScummVM manages to make them understand.

      -db

    8. Re:Original software still required by mr100percent · · Score: 1

      What was loom about? I can't believe I forgot, it was in 1990.....

    9. Re:Original software still required by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 1
      "What was loom about? I can't believe I forgot, it was in 1990....."

      When it comes to LOOM, people only remember that excellent intro music.

      Remember in LOOM you play the role of a young Weaver Bobbin Threadbare who is trying to 'follow the flock of swans.' SPOILER TIME-- You enventually discover that Chaos is entering the world and has amassed an army of 10,000 undead to take it over. In the end of the game, you destroy the loom, Transcend and promise to return, repair the rift in the loom and bansih Chaos.

      We have been waiting for a sequel ever since.

      This game, in my opinion, has more atmosphere and more feel that you are on a Universally Enormous grand scale world where the consqeuences of your actions echo throughout the Universe than practically any other game. I hope LucasArts finishes the story.

    10. Re:Original software still required by BabyDave · · Score: 5, Funny
      At least that wonderful four letter acronym we all have come to love and hate (you know, the one beginning with 'D' that sounds like a Village People song?) hasn't come into it
      I'm sorry, but "inspiration" struck.

      Young man, are you listenin' to me,
      I said, young man, you should buy our "CDs",
      But then, young man, you can't make mp3s,
      'cause you've got to know this one thing.

      Pirates steal all of our wealth,
      So even if you keep your files to yourself,
      We've paid millions for the DMCA,
      And we'll make sure you're put away!

      [da da dada dada da da]

      You'd better not break the D-M-C-A.
      Don't you dare piss off the R-I-A-A!
      We'll own everything, soon you'll have to enjoy,
      Or we'll DRM all your toys!

      You'd better stick to the D-M-C-A
      We 0wn the Feds so you can't get away!
      We'll soon kill off Kazaa,
      Then so you don't impeach,
      We'll sell you files at "only" $8 each.

      [etc]

    11. Re:Original software still required by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2

      I suspect ScummVM drives more purchases of Lucasarts software than people using the original software, given that ScummVM works better in a modern computing environment, works on Linux, etc.

  4. I don't think that was LucasArts by grungebox · · Score: 1, Funny

    Are you sure it wasn't LeChuck controlling the LucasArts legal team? Maybe HE'S the one trying to take action against ScummVm. I don't imagine he likes to be open-source.

    1. Re:I don't think that was LucasArts by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 5, Funny

      LeChuck is a pirate. I seriously doubt he would be involved in anti-warez activity of any kind.

      Duh.

  5. We don't need those Rebel Scumm by Rayonic · · Score: 5, Funny

    (sorry, it had to be said)

    1. Re:We don't need those Rebel Scumm by jcoleman · · Score: 2

      Except the line was, "Bounty hunters? We don't need their scum."

      "You Rebel scum" was a line from Return of the Jedi, where Han, Leia, and Co. got caught infiltrating the shield bunker.

      Yes, I am a Star Wars geek. (for Triumph to poop on)

    2. Re:We don't need those Rebel Scumm by Rayonic · · Score: 5, Funny

      I know it was dumb and inaccurate. Why do you think it was modded up?

  6. Call off the dogs by E1ven · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Although I'm glad that more people are noticing this, the natural tendency at Slashdot is to fire off an e-mail campaign, which is exactly what is not needed in this case.
    Lucasarts has made a mistake. As was mentioned on the mailing list, they have to deal with hundreds of Abandonware sites weekly.
    From their quotes, Lucas thought that ScummVM was re-distributing the original engine, and saying it was under the GPL.
    I believe this situation will soon be resolved calmly, but a hundred "You SUCK!" e-mail cannot help.

    --
    Colin Davis
    1. Re:Call off the dogs by Thornae · · Score: 2

      Plus, as mentioned on the linked page, the initial letter was very polite, and reasonably clued into the fanbase. Please don't go smacking them with a billion nasty emails - wait until they get unreasonable, then hit the flame-on button.

      --
      |>
      Here be Dragons
    2. Re:Call off the dogs by mbbac · · Score: 1

      I was talking about LAWYERS that are paid to know the difference between things to litigate and things to not litigate.

      --

      mbbac

    3. Re:Call off the dogs by Rogerborg · · Score: 2
      • I believe this situation will soon be resolved calmly, but a hundred "You SUCK!" e-mail cannot help

      Well said. Indeed, if you read the wording of Lucasart's email, it's insanely polite and non confrontational. It's the nicest bitchslap I've ever read. They are actually demonstrating goodwill, which I find infinitely preferable to the modern trend for merely asserting that you are acting in "good faith"... while you rip your opponent's jugular out in a pre-emptive strike.

      If anything, we should be emailing Lucasarts, thanking them for their reasonable approach (so far), and asking if it's really true that we can buy (note buy) their back catalogue and then use scummVM to play it in modern or alternative hardware. And if not, why not? Everybody wins from this.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    4. Re:Call off the dogs by NateSac · · Score: 1

      I agree, ***but they DO suck***

      --
      ::i visited slashdot and all i got was this lousy sig::
    5. Re:Call off the dogs by roie_m · · Score: 1


      It's true, but they won't ship outside the US and Canada.

  7. legal team by NASAKnight · · Score: 1, Redundant
    Hello:
    We are contacting you to let you know that the SCUMM engine that is referenced on the site controlled by you (scummvm.sourceforge.net) is actually still proprietary to LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC ("LucasArts") and is not released under general public license as referenced in the FAQ section on your site

    RESPONSE:

    The RE techniques used are generally protected in most states under what is generally known as the 'compatability' clause. I'm afraid I am based in Australia and cannot quote the applicible US equivilents for you at this time, but I am certain the LEC legal team is aware of the appropriate sections of the copyright act.

    Sounds like LEC's legal team needs to get it's act together!

    --
    Fault loves the past, worry loves the future, but content enjoys the present.
  8. Looks like to me... by idfrsr · · Score: 1

    The poster is correct in that the emulator was confused with abandonware.
    I suppose they are just going through the paces to make doubly sure. God forbid a 'few trinkets slip through their fingers'
    com'on somebody just had too.

    Cpt. Obvious

    --
    "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -Tom Waits
  9. I don't get it. by colmore · · Score: 1, Redundant

    "Hmmm... these damn kids are trying to make our games compatible with new hardware. That might result in someone PURCHASING OUR PRODUCT!!! Someone get my lawyer"

    Oh it's George Lucas? Jeez, that figures. Of all of my old heros that could have died in a plane crash before they came back to haunt me, Mr. Perm has to top the list.

    --
    In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
    1. Re:I don't get it. by FortKnox · · Score: 1

      might result in someone PURCHASING OUR PRODUCT!!!

      The games aren't being manufactured anymore. LucasArts isn't getting money for the SCUMM games, anymore. The only person getting money is the guy that gave you his used copy of the game for $2.

      --
      Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
    2. Re:I don't get it. by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      Incorrect. Go to the Lucasarts Store, and pretty much all of their old games are happily available for sale.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    3. Re:I don't get it. by bbh · · Score: 1

      Actually, they may want to repackage it one day and sell it as classic games. By making the old games accessible on the new systems, this might scratch there plans a bit.

      bbh

    4. Re:I don't get it. by BadmanX · · Score: 2

      How? You still need to purchase an original copy of the game in order to play it with SCUMMVM. It doesn't matter if that's the first package released or the spiffy brand new Classic package. Either one will work just fine. But you have to buy it. So SCUMMVM doesn't hurt LucasArts one bit. Quite the opposite.

    5. Re:I don't get it. by colmore · · Score: 2

      Unless you owned it in old form and now are going to buy it again in new form.

      Of course, that's the only way this can hurt LA financially, and do they want the PR hit of saying "We'd rather charge people for the same product twice, thank you?"

      --
      In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
  10. Maybe everything is fine.... Maybe Not by Frying+Ferret · · Score: 1

    It seems to me that the people working on the project may think that everything will work out when LEC sees it their way.... And maybe it will. But I don't see that as a definite outcome, just because you "know" that what you are doing is legal doesn't mean that LEC won't come after you. I (like others) would like to think that LEC is a good company, and the fact that these programmers have spent all this time working on something only to be used for LEC games leads me to belive that they think pretty highly of Lucas Arts. I just hope they are right and LEC doesn't go and pull a "blizzard" on them.

    1. Re:Maybe everything is fine.... Maybe Not by Ndr_Amigo · · Score: 1

      Oh, we are well aware that things can go either way. Basically, we have high opinions of LucasArts itself.. but unfortunatly legal departments tend to act on impulse.

      Thats why I myself didn't submit anything to slashdot yet. I'm waiting for their response, to see if they will just drop it... or take the long, tired road of a lawsuit. *sigh*

      - James 'Ender' Brown
      Lead Developer, ScummVM

  11. ScummVM runs great on GNU/Linux-PDAs by DocSnyder · · Score: 2

    The Familiar GNU/Linux distro has packages of ScummVM ready to install. Only the game data files have to be added, for Purple Tentacle to conquer the world on a iPAQ, Zaurus or Yopy. :-)

  12. My favorite part.. by Marx_Mrvelous · · Score: 1

    Is that if they don't take it down, LA will go to sourceforge and ask them to have the site removed.

    Maybe it's just me, but i think that sourceforge knows this isn't abandonware.

    --

    Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
    1. Re:My favorite part.. by Ndr_Amigo · · Score: 3, Informative

      They already have :)
      Roblimo himself sent a nice e-mail to me with suggestions (plus the warning that the site would vanish if I didn't reply to him in 72 hours).
      I've asked SF not to remove it, as what the letter cites is on our site.. obviously isn't. We arn't distributing any software by LucasArts themselves on there.

      - James 'Ender' Brown
      Lead ScummVM Developer
      Slashdot Troll of the Hour :)

    2. Re:My favorite part.. by Marx_Mrvelous · · Score: 2

      Yea... more likely than not, they're probably paying an intern $5/hour to scan the 'net for violations, and then send "fill-in-the-blank" e-mails to any "violating" site. Glad to see a reasonable response, and thank for all your work, it is appreciated.

      --

      Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
  13. I'm serious by this: by Gannoc · · Score: 2, Interesting
    That is simply the nicest cease and desist letter i've ever seen.

    "Purely for the record"... thats great!

    Their response should have emphasized the fact that you still need the original game files to play.

    They're still going to get shutdown, even if its not totally legal. Lucasarts wants to be able to re-release their games with updated engines, and if someone is doing it for free, it cuts into their profits.

    Look at Nintendo's new games that emulate NES games on the GBA. How much cooler would that have been if we already hadn't had nesticle for 6 years.

    Not agreeing w/ them, I just know their POV.

    1. Re:I'm serious by this: by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      You may be morer clueful than most slashdot posters, but I still wish you were wrong.

      :(

  14. Confused? So what? by Rayonic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Since when, in America or any other part of the world, has ignorance on an issue prevented someone from filing a lawsuit? Heck, I'd say that the odds of Lucasarts pressing ahead with litigation are about 50/50, if they can't bully them into submission.

    I like Lucasarts (though I used to like it more), but you've got to realize that this issue with ScummVM probably won't make it past their lawyer department, who probably have all the technical aptitude of a pack of (three-headed) monkeys.

  15. Lawyers are strange beings by Christianfreak · · Score: 1

    I say we need to be ready to set up a legal fund for these guys if the lawyers don't see it their way.

    The guys developing this are right of course but lawyers all too often are concerned about making money so its going to come down to whether they will go for money or do the right thing (tm).

    Too bad the entire US legal system breaks down as soon as you have someone with lots of money but I digress. Win or lose the case, the lawyer still gets paid ...

  16. Call off the dogs AND the trip to the Movies by FreeUser · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I believe this situation will soon be resolved calmly, but a hundred "You SUCK!" e-mail cannot help.

    You are absolutely right.

    But a mental note to self that "Lucas sucks (even worse than his last two films)" when Slashdot starts promoting the low-rez sorinsen quicktime tailers for Episode III might be appropriate (in the next story, if /. remains true to form) and a personal boycott of his products (past, present, and future) even more so.

    As an aside, one has to wonder what sorts of payola scams exist here, for a site the promotes free software and open source as this one does to constantly be promoting the wares of the one industry that has launched successful attacks against free software and its developers (unlike Microsoft).

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    1. Re:Call off the dogs AND the trip to the Movies by FreeUser · · Score: 2

      Interesting that the parnet got marked as a troll, particularly in light of the fact that I was right.

      OK, so it was a Star Trek, not Star Wars, movie. Same evil industry, same point stands, and slashdot's hawking of the wares of an industry that is waging war not only on software freedom, but on freedom in general, continues unabated.

      --
      The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    2. Re:Call off the dogs AND the trip to the Movies by danox · · Score: 2

      What you might find about slashdot is that it is a community mad up of LOTS of people. many of which have varying opinions.

      Allot of people who read this site LIKE star wars ALLOT. Allot of people who read this site have deep feelings about free software. But that doesn't mean that the site has to favour one group over the other. Like any large group of people, you will notice trends throughout the slashdot community, but it is also divided on many aspect. It seems pointless to criticise slashdot for it's apparent promotion of an idustry. The editors are just reporting thing that other people have told them about and that they think might be interesting. There is no slashdot conspiracy out there. Its just a bunch of people interested in a bunch of things with some common ground between them.

      If you have issues with an industry, then good for you, but why criticise slashdot? The site itself does not proclaim any such issues, its just a place to go to read things you might be interested and share your opinions with others.

      --
      "Me and my girl named bimbo . . . limbo . . . spam" - Captain Beefheart.
  17. Sounds like the work of a legal ASSITANT by mekkab · · Score: 5, Informative

    INSERT IANAL DISCLAIMER.

    This is a boiler plate letter. They had a legal assitant (billing rate: usually under $100. Pay rate: $15? plus overtime.) do the research on the web. Criteria: does this allow someone to play LEC games? If yes, fill in the blanks and send the letter. Charge the client. Go home happy.

    Given the response, this may get boiled up to a summer associate (hasn't passed the bar but has somewhat of a clue regarding the law) (bill rate: $125) or (egads!) and associate (a *real* lawyer) (bill rate $150 min.) who will weigh the ScummVM developers claims and decide wether to persue.

    If they investigate the research on the "applicable state laws" will be given to a Legal assistant or a summer associate and that will determine the amount of work necessary to determine if ScummVM is an actual infringement.

    I'm not saying LEC is poor, but I doubt they will waste their money past here.

    Any IP lawyers who would like to clarify?

    --
    In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
    1. Re:Sounds like the work of a legal ASSITANT by mekkab · · Score: 2

      WOW!

      Where are your numbers from?
      Mine are current as of this summer, prestigious DC firm prices. I know that in North Dakota a senior partner's time costs $150 an hour.

      As for summer associates, same dc firm, and they get paid just under $50 an hour. But getting billed out at $400??!?! That's crazy!

      --
      In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
    2. Re:Sounds like the work of a legal ASSITANT by non3ntity · · Score: 1

      Hmm... the fact that they read the FAQ section about releasing the software under the GPL belies any notion of this being a 'boiler plate' letter... it might be based on one, but it has been customised to suit the circumstances (just not enough to be realistic).

    3. Re:Sounds like the work of a legal ASSITANT by mekkab · · Score: 2

      Yes, however IMHO this is still within the realm of a legal assistant.

      How so? They have to have some cognizance(sp?) of licensing issues, since they are accusing ScummVM of violating it. Perhaps the LA checked it over quickly with an associate and said "Hey, if they are using our ip (playing our games), can they lisence it under GPL?" Phrased that way, the answer is an emphatic NO! Also anyone can "claim" some ip to be under a certain license, but if you are a small time Open Source project, they may think you don't have the legal where-withall (again, sp?) to license your way out of a paper sack!

      So I concede yes- this is tailored to the situation. However I think this was the IP lawyers having the assistants troll for work!

      again- any real lawyers have any comments?

      --
      In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
  18. LucasArts and Activision by Sargent1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Once upon a time, there was a company that had a bunch of games that ran under a virtual machine. Eventually, people who loved those games reverse-engineered the virtual machine and wrote interpreters for the VM that ran on everything and anything, from Palms to BeOS to OS/2. And the company decided that that was okay.

    The company was Activision, which bought up Infocom in the late 1980s. Remember all those Infocom text adventures? People reverse-engineered the virtual machine, known as the z-machine, and wrote plenty of z-machine interpreters, all of which are freely available. Activision apparently decided that this was fine with them, as long as the games themselves weren't being distributed.

    Now LucasArts is in a similar situation. Will they be as calm about a new VM interpreter as Activision was? Sadly, I'm not so sure.

  19. The reply mentions that by Manic+Miner · · Score: 5, Informative

    The reply to lucas arts states:

    We mean no ill harm to LucasArts, and it is well known that many people (at least 50 to my knowledge, although I am sure there are many more) have brought classic LEC games simply to play them using our software.

    which clearly mentions that people purchase the original software to play using ScummVM. And...

    ScummVM is a valid clone of the SPU engine, designed to facitiate the playing of LucasArts adventures on modern machines and operating systems.

    Which I think also clearly states that ScummVM is a clone of SPU, and not the original engine, or any original game content.

    Also their FAQ clearly states in section 2:

    1. Do I need original CD or Floppy disks?
    Most definitely. ScummVM won't work without them. If you would like to buy these games, we suggest you browse Ebay. Do not ask the ScummVM team where you can download the full versions of Lucas Arts games. These requests will be ignored.

    What else should they have done? A little "research" into the site would quickly have shown that this is not an abandonware site.

    --
    If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, because, man, they're gone.
  20. Copyright expired = Public Domain by MEK · · Score: 3, Informative
    But there are no provisions in Copyright law which force material to be placed in the public domain when it is no longer being used (or even when Copyright expires!).


    The intent of the Constitutional provision that allows (but does not require) the government to afford copyright protection (for a limited time) to authors was to ultimately increase the amount of material in the public domain. When a copyright expires, the material previously protected belongs to the public.
    --
    Credo quia impossibilis -- Tertullian
    1. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by Twylite · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My point was not that it does not become public domain, but that there is no explicit legal requirement for the release of the material to the public.

      That is to say, when (if) Disney's Copyright on Micky Mouse expires, there is no legal requirement that they hand over their Micky Mouse archives (or a copy thereof) to some sort of public institution. If you happen to HAVE a copy - sure, go ahead and copy it. But getting your hands on it may not be such a simple matter.

      Abandonware is a case in point. Many games available on Abandonware sites do not exist somewhere in corporate archives, because the game companies simply went under -- there was no sale of assets, not buy-out by a bigger company. Just a quite whimper. Even though there was a threat (to society) of that information being lost forever ... there was no attempt or requirement to make it public.

      Talking about software specifically, where is there any implication or requirement for (say) the source code to be made public? Simple, there isn't. No more than an author could be expected to make his/her notes public when Copyright expires (okay, this would be posthumous anyway).

      So here you have the basis of the problem: Copyright is a LEGAL measure to prevent you from distributing something; but when Copyright expires you have no LEGAL resource to FORCE distribution. If the (elapsed) owner simply doesn't make a copy available, you can't force him to.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    2. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by monkeydo · · Score: 2

      My point was not that it does not become public domain, but that there is no explicit legal requirement for the release of the material to the public.

      Except that your point is wrong. In the US to be able to claim certain damages in a copyright suit you must have registered your copyright and sent 2 copies to the US Copyright Office.

      That is to say, when (if) Disney's Copyright on Micky Mouse expires, there is no legal requirement that they hand over their Micky Mouse archives (or a copy thereof) to some sort of public institution.

      Do you consider the Library of Congress to be "Some sort of public institution?" There is no requirement that any creative works be published, but if they are and the author has a registered copyright there are two copies of the work at the LOC.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    3. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by dvdeug · · Score: 2

      There is no requirement that any creative works be published, but if they are and the author has a registered copyright there are two copies of the work at the LOC.

      In most cases. The Library of Congress doesn't have archives of early film, though, as nitrate film was too volatile for them to store.

    4. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by Twylite · · Score: 2

      A valid point ... but does the LoC store computer games ...?

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    5. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by joshsisk · · Score: 1

      Many games available on Abandonware sites do not exist somewhere in corporate archives, because the game companies simply went under -- there was no sale of assets, not buy-out by a bigger company. Just a quite whimper. Even though there was a threat (to society) of that information being lost forever ... there was no attempt or requirement to make it public.

      If no one has a copy of it, it probably isn't socially relevant enough for it's loss to be a threat to society.

      So here you have the basis of the problem: Copyright is a LEGAL measure to prevent you from distributing something; but when Copyright expires you have no LEGAL resource to FORCE distribution. If the (elapsed) owner simply doesn't make a copy available, you can't force him to.

      Why should you be able to? Surely, in your Disney example, even if the "Mickey archives" were no longer copyrighted, the actual original drawings would still be Disney property. Why should Disney be forced to give those to anyone? The drawings are their property.

      To use another example, if my grandfather had written a book, I wouldn't want to have to turn over his manuscript to someone just because they wanted the information it contained - even if the words were no longer protected by copyright, the actual manuscript would still be property of my family (and probably a treasured possession).

      And I also would be against "forcing" people to make copies, as well... In my manuscript example, why should I be forced to take my time and make someone a copy of the hypothetical manuscript? They can find their own copy, which is relatively easy as far as digital media goes.

    6. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by Twylite · · Score: 2

      I believe there should be a distinction drawn between Copyright over published worked, and intrinsic Copyright on unpublished works. If (say) Disney publishes something, and 70 years later their Copyright expires but no copies can be found in the hands of the public, Disney should be forced to provide the work as published, at least to a couple of public institutions.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    7. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by esper_child · · Score: 1

      if it does i should pay it a visit :)

    8. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      If (say) Disney publishes something, and 70 years later their Copyright expires but no copies can be found in the hands of the public, Disney should be forced to provide the work as published, at least to a couple of public institutions.

      As I stated in reply to your earlier post Disney would have provided 2 copies of that work to the LOC when they first registered the copyright. If those copies are missing, you have an issue with the LOC, not Disney.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    9. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      Only those with registered copyrights.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    10. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by aronc · · Score: 1

      If no one has a copy of it, it probably isn't socially relevant enough for it's loss to be a threat to society.

      Unfortunately, this argument doesn't hold water. particularly in newly emerging media forms (video games for instance). Many thousands of very valuable motion pictures were lost in the early days of the medium because nobody at the time thought they would be valuable. The silver nitrate in the film was worth more than the ideas that were printed on it. In hindsight there was a great deal of amazingly important and interesting stuff that was there. It's all gone now, forever. Now the storage medium for modern materails isn't quite the same as film but can you really know for sure that 100 years from now those last few CDs containing the original Zork are going to be usable?

      --

      jello.
      aka aron.
    11. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by joshsisk · · Score: 1

      With digital media, it holds even more water, I'd say. Consider the fact that, today, 15 years later, I can still track down any obscure text file that I once read in the BBS days. If the file no longer exists anywhere, in any archive, then it's unlikely anyone will miss it. And as storage media sizes grow, the unfettered archiving of the past will only become more prevelant.

    12. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by aronc · · Score: 1

      You missed my point completely. What the current culture deams worth saving and what people will want around 50/100/150 years from now are highly unlikely to be the same. The studios at the time thought a film has essentially zero value after it's theatrical run, so they recylced the media. Seventy five to a hundred years later we (we being the film buffs and film historical types) desperately wish we could have those pieces back. Just because something is out of the public eye/mind 10 years after it's release doesn't mean it is a worthless object.

      How many artists have become famous after their deaths? Think about it...

      --

      jello.
      aka aron.
    13. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by Twylite · · Score: 2

      You're talking specifically about America. Most countries have a national library to which you need to submit any book which is published *with an ISBN*. "Home publishing", games, music, movies etc. are not submitted to some sort of central repository in most countries. In line with WIPO treaties, you don't HAVE to register copyright to enjoy its protection, not even in the US.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    14. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by joshsisk · · Score: 1

      No. What I'm saying is that with the ease of storage and duplication, EVERYTHING is being archived in a hundred different places, probably more. No matter how pointless, it's backed up in a dozen different ways. Like I said - I bet I could find a copy of the most pointless text file I can recall from BBS days. And as ease goes up and price goes down, more and more will be stored... And moved from media type to media type.

      How many artists have become famous after their deaths? Think about it...

      Not that this has anything to do with what we are talking about, but that's actually something of a myth. Most famous artists were famous while they were alive as well. There are a few exceptions, of course, but most artists we revere today were relatively well known in their day... Many were actually "art stars".

    15. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      In the US "'Home publishing', games, music, movies etc." are submitted to the LoC if you want to resgister a copyright. I don't know about other countries, but I ASSUME that in every country you must submit a copy of any work to register the copyright -- otherwise how do they know what the copyright is on?

      It sounds like you are arguing people should be required to submit copies of even unpublished works to the "national library". If that's what you are saying, it sounds a lot like mandatory copyright registrations, and we could get into a long conversation about how bad that is for free speech.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    16. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by Twylite · · Score: 2

      In many countries there is no requirement to submit works to the national library unless they are "formally published"; that means they have been assigned a unique number (like a bar code or ISBN). There is also often no requirement to submit non-text works. This actually has nothing to do with copyright, but to do with archives for public access.

      WIPO's rules call for the recognition of authorial copyright - if you are the author of a work, you automatically enjoy copyright protection. There is no need to register that copyright, it simply exists. If you publish the work, you need to put a valid copyright declaration on it (which must be either the word "Copyright" or the copyright symbol [ (C) isn't valid! ], followed by the date of publication OR a date range indicating the first publication and the most recent publication, followed by the identity of the copyright holder.

      When copyright is challanged, the onus is on the author to prove that their work predates any work the claimant can prove. Copyright registries are primarily meant to solve this issue, but many countries don't have them. One recommended method is to post yourself a registered mail containing the copyright work, or significant parts thereof, and not to open that mail. Registered mail (in case you have a different term) is stamped, logged and tracked at every sorting office it passes through, and the fact that it is sealed is stamped and signed.

      If there is every a contesting of Copyright, you can produce the unopened mail, which proves the date at which you had the full work (which should be before you publish it ;) ). Once produced in court, the court records can achieve the same ends in terms of proving the date.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    17. Re:Copyright expired = Public Domain by Twylite · · Score: 2

      South Africa (where I come from). There is no need to, and in fact no WAY to, register a copyright (except for films). There is no copyright office or the like, only a patent office. Reference: Department of Trade and Industry (SA)

      Collecting damages involves proving that you are in possession of the original copy of the work, which is most easily done by proving that you had the complete work before the first publication. I don't have a legal reference, but I have associations with two successful Copyright defendants.

      WIPO's rules require that all signatory countries enact legislation to recognise only: the WORD "Copyright", the copyright symbol (and bracket-c-bracket is specifically excluded in recent WIPO commentaries, but can be recognised by individual countries if they choose to), AND THEY DO NOT REQUIRE COPYRIGHT TO BE REGISTERED.

      I don't have a reference for the symbol vs. (C) commentary, but according to this article, this article, and in particular this article from the Library of Congress you haven't done your research. Or you can read from the Berne Convention itself. In particular take note of the line "Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U. S. origin", as well as references in all three articles to the registration requirement for claiming infringement being a purely US phenomenon, but that it may make it easy to claim damages in other jurisdictions. Registration can also take place at any time in a Copyright life!

      Not only did you get it backwards, (the UCC only recognizes the (c) as a valid copyright notice) but all of the above is meaningless if you haven't registered the copyright.

      1. The symbol © (the letter C in a circle), or the word "Copyright," or the abbreviation "Copr."; and, from LOC.

      When copyright is challanged, the onus is on the author to prove that their work predates any work the claimant can prove.
      Wrong.

      Rephase, your Honour. When copyright is challanged, the onus is on the challanged to prove that their work predates anything the defendant can prove.

      Same effect. At long as I can prove I owned the work before you did, you can't possible own the Copyright. This is enough to get even a registration overturned in court (since you don't have to register a Copyright at the beginning of its life).

      This is definately NOT a recommended method. The only recommended method is formal registration.

      Only in the US, Canada and other countries where they HAVE registries.

      Actually it only proves that you can mail yourself an empty(?) envelope.

      No, this is why it specifically has to be registered mail, or the equivalent service, because they will not accept unsealed mail. Registered mail ensures that the mail is delivered and not tampered with. Or did you miss the bit about "containing the complete work"?

      You might look here [copyright.gov] for some correct information on copyright in the US. There are also links to international copyright law.

      Do I have to register with your office to be protected? No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, section Copyright Registration. Note: "U.S. work", a sentiment borne out by the LOC page and other legal articles.

      Thank you for playing, consider yourself WRONG. Insert brain to continue...

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
  21. It's Not the Size of the Ship by Rayonic · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sorry, Offtopic, but anyone else remember when Lucasarts games were this funny? Heck, I don't think you can even put that third line of text in a game nowadays.

    (IIRC, what Elaine had asked Guybrush in that screenshot was something like "What have we learned from all of this?" at the end of the game.)

    1. Re:It's Not the Size of the Ship by Cutriss · · Score: 2

      Heck, I don't think you can even put that third line of text in a game nowadays.

      Or the fourth line, for that matter. :)

      --
      "Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
    2. Re:It's Not the Size of the Ship by meringuoid · · Score: 1

      What, 'Never pay more than $20 for a computer game'? LucasArts have had that as a running joke for a long time now. It resurfaced in Monkey 3: 'At least my bad fiction doesn't require over $1000 of hardware'...

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  22. The Burden of Proof by envisionary · · Score: 1

    My take on this is that it's most likely just a misunderstanding on the behalf of LEC Legal. These people probably have to deal with "abandonware" sites on a daily basis, and reading their mail it seems that they believe that we are distributing the LucasArts SPU implementation under the (false) assumption that it is abandonware.

    Actually, from the legal perspective it seems a lot easier to just send out a lot of letters to all those that thinks they are infringing on proprietary art. What this does, is makes it easier for the legal team. This is because it shifts the burden of proof on the accused (in this case the ScummVM team) rather than on the company itself (in this case Lucasarts) to prove what they are doing is not illegal.

    Think of it this way. If you were paying lawyers to protect your intellectual property, would you rather them save money and not "deeply investigate" all claims when the same results could be accomplished by a cursory examination. If you are the big company of course you are going to take the cost effective route.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe that the ScummVM has legally reverse engineered the original SPU engine. And I'm very glad, I love playing old Lucasarts game's that I have, like Monkey Island [floppy disk version] under BSD.

    I would regret seeing such an interesting project shut down because of a misunderstanding.

  23. Here's The Lawyer's Response by dbretton · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Paraphrased:

    While this would be true, it could still be argued (successfully) that the emulator would have a negative impact on potential future revenue of LucasArts products, such as a LucasArts Classics package for BSD.

    There are 2 arguments that the scummVM ppl need to make. However, they only made one of these arguments.
    1. ScummVM is an emulator, and was created using legally valid and sound reverse engineering techniques. (this agument they made)
    2. ScummVM was created as an academic exercise in software and reverse engineering techniques. As such, ScummVM is not bound to the DMCA, or any other such laws, as it is considered a form of free speech, and is protected under First Amendment Rights.

    -Dennis

    1. Re:Here's The Lawyer's Response by Twylite · · Score: 2

      You don't have to argue (2) unless you are in the US ;) And unless I'm mistaken, the compatibility provision still applies.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    2. Re:Here's The Lawyer's Response by Twylite · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry, I'm talking bullshit, and so is the laywer. DMCA doesn't cover this AT ALL, as the software in question does not have access control mechanisms that are being circumvented. Even if you would like to argue that it does, ...

      DMCA, Section 1201
      (f) Reverse Engineering. -
      (1) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.
      (2) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a)(2) and (b), a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, if such means are necessary to achieve such interoperability, to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title.

      So even if it can be shown that the DMCA applies, there is a legitimate reason (interoperability) for the creation of this software.

      --
      i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
    3. Re:Here's The Lawyer's Response by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      Sorry, I'm talking bullshit, and so is the laywer. DMCA doesn't cover this AT ALL, as the software in question does not have access control mechanisms that are being circumvented.

      Actually, it does. Monkey Island 2's copy protection is circumvented by ScummVM; you can type in whatever numbers you like and you get in.

      Mind you, the .exe that comes with the CD version of Monkey 2 doesn't even show the copy protection screen, so that one might not stand up in court.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    4. Re:Here's The Lawyer's Response by BadmanX · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Absolutely fascinating premise: Could LucasArts take the SCUMMVM engine (which is GPL) and combine it with the original game data (which is copyrighted) and sell it? "LucasArts Classics, now on Game Boy Advance!"

      They could claim that they are simply selling their copyrighted game data and are providing the engine free simply as a service. Is this something the GPL would allow? Because if so, it would make the GPL a lot more attractive to game developers, who could release the engine for free and sell the actual game content, and stay in business.

      But last I heard, clause 2b of the GPL definitely suggested that if a program has a GPL component, the entire program must be provided to third parties at no cost. Which kind of shoots this idea out of the water.

      Here's clause 2b of the GPL, just for reference:

      b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License.

      Any way we can get a ruling on this?

    5. Re:Here's The Lawyer's Response by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Yes, it is possible. The sources for all id Software engines up to and including Quake II have been released as GPL, but id still sell Quake and Doom - the levels aren't free, even if the engine is.

      If LucasArts put scummvm.exe and sdl.dll on a CD, and have a source directory somewhere, they can fill the rest of that disk with whatever they like.

      Actually manufacturing GBA carts might involve a royalty payment to Nintendo, but the GPL wouldn't be a problem.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    6. Re:Here's The Lawyer's Response by Stonehand · · Score: 1

      Hm. I read 'develop' and 'employ', but I don't see 'distribute'. Has this been tested?

      --
      Only the dead have seen the end of war.
    7. Re:Here's The Lawyer's Response by Heretik · · Score: 1

      Yes, but id owns the copyright to their engines, so they can do whatever they want with them. GPL-compliant or not. LucasArts does not own the copyright to ScummVM, so they would be bound by the terms of the GPL.

      But, you are right, they could distribute it, just pointing out a serious flaw in your analogy. :)

    8. Re:Here's The Lawyer's Response by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 2

      You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License.

      Since this is a VM, wouldn't combining it with the content constitute normal use rather than being a derivative work? Looks to me like they would only be obligated to distrubute the VM freely

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    9. Re:Here's The Lawyer's Response by fyonn · · Score: 1

      While this would be true, it could still be argued (successfully) that the emulator would have a negative impact on potential future revenue of LucasArts products, such as a LucasArts Classics package for BSD.

      yes, it probably could be argued as such.. so what?

      it could also be argued that linux has a negative impact on the potential future revenue of m$ windows.

      whats your point. scummvm ain't illegal (well, ain't illegal everywhere, who knows with america these days, I'd say "thank goodness I'm in the UK" but I'm sure we'll be following suit soon enough *sigh*)

      it's a clean room re-engineering project. it allows you to play old games that you're bought (or aquired, but thats your issue, not theirs) on your new uberbox.

      tough shit as far as I am concerned

      dave

    10. Re:Here's The Lawyer's Response by dbretton · · Score: 2


      I guess I have to spell this out for the A/C's:

      There are 2 primary things which LucasArts needs to show in order to have a viable lawsuit:

      1) Trademark/IP infringement has occurred.
      2) As a result of that infringement/trademark, the claimant has incurred direct revenue losses, or their potential for future revenue has been diminished.

      Since LucasArts has a solid claim to #2, scummvm's reply should have been the following:
      1) To state, very clearly, that the means by which they conducted their reverse engineering was a legally approved (e.g. stating court precedent) process.
      2) To expand their umbrella of legal coverage (aka CYA) by aligning their project under the shield of academia.

  24. Re:Spellchecking? by Ndr_Amigo · · Score: 1

    Nope, it wasn't. I wrote it (as I said in another post), after rolling over in bed at 6AM to notice a message from 'LEC Legal' sitting in my pine session on my laptop.

    I didn't realise how many mistakes I had made until several hours later :)
    Of course, that's not an excuse. Why explain myself?

    - From the spellchecker of 'J Brown'
    Lead Developer, yadda yadda.

  25. mmmmm.... chicken... by TheCyko1 · · Score: 1

    Madre de Dios! Es El Pollo Diablo! -- Captain Blondebeard

    It's El Pollo Diablo! The giant demon chicken of Puerto Pollo! -- Captain Blondebeard

    --
    This message was brought to you by the death of 30 brain cells.
  26. No steenking lawyers.... by carlos_benj · · Score: 1

    So, they don't have any lawyers? They still could have tapped the community for someone to write a better response letter. They don't clearly articulate the benefits to LEC that their software provides and the part about reverse engineering almost makes it sound like, "we had that part done in countries where your laws don't apply." The 'responce' given isn't likely to convince a law firm that doesn't already understand the technology, and a law firm that understands the technology would not likely have sent the pleasant-though-it-may-be cease-and-desist request.

    --

    --

    As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.

    1. Re:No steenking lawyers.... by carlos_benj · · Score: 1

      they dont have to convince the lawyers of the benifit. They are not breaking the law. they could have told the lawyers to stick it where the sun dont shine with a little notice saying they are distributing their own works, not lucas's

      Yep. That's a sure way to avoid a lawsuit. Doesn't matter if a thing is legal or not, the lawsuit can break you regardless of merit. You really should pay better attention to reality. Remaining willfully ignorant doesn't make the problems go away.

      --

      --

      As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.

  27. LucasArts just missed a great opportunity... by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... I've bought the DotT / Sam & Max 2 in 1 pack; it doesn't work, because the .exe files are so old and can't cope with modern hardware. LucasArts provide patches, which work, sort of...
    I've also bought the Monkey Island 1, 2 and 3 pack, and the result with 1 and 2 is the same. Doesn't work out of the box, works, sort of, once you get the patch. The patch at least gets the game running, but the sound is decidedly dodgy. I don't even want to think about what happens to WinXP users...

    But now there is ScummVM. All these games run better than they did in the first place, they run on machines and OSes that LucasArts never bothered with, and they run perfectly.

    What LucasArts should do with ScummVM is write the authors a great big thank-you letter and start bundling it with all their old games. There's no reason why they shouldn't. Trying to shut down a project that's doing for free what you should have done a long time ago is just plain silly.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    1. Re:LucasArts just missed a great opportunity... by Akoma+The+Immortal · · Score: 1

      You are right.

      But those poeple that sent the letter does not have the revenu stream of Lucas Arts in mind. They have theirs.

      So they will sue them to have a fat pay check from Lucas at the end of the day and they will tell Lucas that this VM was another case of Copyright infrigment(french spell checkers don't correct this word properly :) ).

      Lawyer have to eat to you know.

      --
      assert(expired(knowldege)); core dump
    2. Re:LucasArts just missed a great opportunity... by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The only people who can override the Legal department are... Marketing.

      Someone ought to get in touch with some of these people and show them ScummVM. Show them Monkey Island 2 running under the DOS .exe, as supplied at present, and then show them the same game running under ScummVM, with anti-aliasing and superior MIDI. Then show them the same game running on about three million different platforms. Show them Dreamcast Monkey Island. Show them palmtop Monkey Island.

      Then tell them that this marvellous technology is free, tell them they can use it in any future reissues of these old games, that they don't need to pay anyone for the privilege.

      Tell them that they can market it as 'Monkey Island Classics Deluxe' and double the price.

      Then watch those lawyers disappear.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    3. Re:LucasArts just missed a great opportunity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I bought my wife the same set of games. She had tried the last two in the Monkey series and loved them so I bought the others too. We run WinXP pro at home and haven't had any problems that I can think of with the games. I also have the original version of Sam and Max and X-Wing (the same one that I used to play on a 386) and they seem to work fine. There were some sound setup issues with Sam and Max. The one game I am having problems with in XP are the sierra HOF/Malcom games. Malcoms revenge doesn't get through the setup - too bad.
      These older games offer so much playability, I've always liked the fact that Lucas didn't ditch products just because they weren't shiny and new. I wished that alot of other companies followed suit and continued to market their older games that I grew up playing. I think Lucas would do well to please their previous customers by at least mentioning SCUMMVM as a viable option for those people who would like to fire up their old games once again. Possibly by pleasing some former customers they can get a few more purchases.

      The current issue just appears to be a mistake about what SCUMMVM. Hopefully the company will be educated (politely) and we'll move on past the issue instead of trying to create another "BIG BAD COMPANY" to complain about when we already have so many to get on.

    4. Re:LucasArts just missed a great opportunity... by gaspyy · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, I've recently found my old Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis game... to my absolute surprise it works just fine on WinXP except for sound (I'm sure I could get it to work but I was too lazy). Sure, playing a VGA game at 320x200 on a 21" screen was a turn-off, but the game was fully playable and the speed was optimal.

    5. Re:LucasArts just missed a great opportunity... by maloi · · Score: 1

      Actually, I bought the Monkey Island 1, 2 and 3 pack, and 1 and 2 worked flawlessly under Windows XP - sound and all.

      It was 3 that I had trouble with. The cut scenes occassionally went nuts. I was able to finish the game anyway.

    6. Re:LucasArts just missed a great opportunity... by Merlin42 · · Score: 1

      But you forget one of the cardinal rules of software sales:
      You make more money if you sell the same product multiple times.

      ie

      Mankey Island on DC - $20
      Monkey Island 1 on Palm - $20
      Monkey Island 2 on Palm - $20
      Monkey Island on WinXP - $20
      Monkey Island Collection on PS2 - $20
      .
      .
      .
      You get the idea

      As you can see ScummVM sort of hurts this business model. ie I purchase ony one of the above and effectively get the others for free ... So I must be stealing ;)

    7. Re:LucasArts just missed a great opportunity... by intermodal · · Score: 1

      i agree wholeheartedly. if Lucas were to instead embrace this development and willingly distribute it on newly pressed SCUMM engine games, or even a cool variety pack, i'd buy it in a second. I fondly remember hours of Day of the Tentacle, Maniac Mansion, the Indiana Jones and Monkey Island series, but alas my brother was the owner of them. As a linux gamer, if they were to make a "scumm collection box set" with ScummVM, i'd buy it in a second for the chance to have them back and useable. But alas, here goes lucas screwing it up in the name of capitalism...lets hope they figure out what they're really attacking before it gets out of hand.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  28. Re:Gimmie a break...Look at the ScummVM site by AVee · · Score: 2

    They could have been clearer on that point. But if i were LucasArts i'd offer the spec in exchange for direct link to the LucasArts online store for all games that work.
    They could be selling their classic games for a lot a platforms if they work with these guys. I think that would be a good deal for both parties...

  29. Worst is Yet to Come by GogglesPisano · · Score: 1

    LucasArts' lawyers won't stop here -- this was just a shot across the bow. When you bill by the hour, it's in your best interest to keep stirring the pot. The simple fact that their claim has no merit won't stop them from launching an expensive lawsuit, particularly when they can use the legal process to achieve their goal of killing the project.

    I doubt they'll make a distinction between submitting original LucasArts software and reverse-engineered code, despite the provisions for RE in US copyright law. It's easy to envision them invoking the DMCA and arguing that the SCUMM opcodes are copyrighted IP and that SCUMMvm is a circumvention device.

    I recall Nintendo and Sega using similar arguments to go after sites distributing console emulators.

    1. Re:Worst is Yet to Come by Dimensio · · Score: 2

      I recall Nintendo and Sega using similar arguments to go after sites distributing console emulators.

      True. That's why you can't find any console emulators anywhere anymore.

  30. In a related Story... by Fapestniegd · · Score: 1

    Buggy Whip Manufacturers are lobbying for the right to slash tires and put sugar in gas tanks.

    1. Re:In a related Story... by meringuoid · · Score: 1

      I'm searching for the legendary lost treasure of Buggy Whip!

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  31. Actually, this is probably in retaliation by wunderhorn1 · · Score: 2

    LucasArts is probably retaliating against Sourceforge for all those stupid "Star Wars"-ripoff ads ;-)

    --
    Karma: Bored. (Thinking about resurrecting the "Anyone else is an imposter" joke.)
  32. As a curiousity by MarvinMouse · · Score: 1

    Since it is legal to implement a system that will run LucaArts programs in a virtual machine by just reverse engineering the programs,

    Why doesn't Linux just reverse engineer a couple of major MS programs and implement them in Linux (by reprogramming them). With the amount of support Linux has, this shouldn't be excessively hard.

    --
    ~ kjrose
    1. Re:As a curiousity by MarvinMouse · · Score: 2

      I am saying, why not just reverse engineer the more major ones like Office. Not the entire OS, but the programs MS needs to sell the OS.

      For example, MS Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint, ... and so on.

      Wouldn't these be easier to reverse engineer and implement in a Linux structure, then the entire OS?

      --
      ~ kjrose
    2. Re:As a curiousity by mr100percent · · Score: 1

      Well, there's Star and OpenOffice, and abiword already, which use the .DOC format. I don't know about Excel or Access yet, not as much demand...

    3. Re:As a curiousity by lquam · · Score: 1

      Because replicating all of those bugs would be a herculean task.

  33. we geeks might make a better impression... by anonymous+loser · · Score: 1, Offtopic
    If we learned how to spell and use grammar properly. There are 4 heinous spelling and grammatical errors in the first 2 paragraphs alone:

    We appretiate your concerns expressed in the e-mail below regarding protecting the intellectual intellectual property of LucasArts 'SPU'(tm) engine - (please note that we do not believe this engine was never called 'SCUMM' inside of LucasArts itself, check with your programmers). ScummVM is NOT the SPU engine as used internally by LEC. ScummVM is a valid clone of the SPU engine, designed to facitiate the playing of LucasArts adventures on modern machines and operating systems. ScummVM allows the data from LEC adventures to be played on many platforms (Intel, PocketPC, etc) and operating systems (Linux, Windows 2000, etc) which qare not supported by your own SPU(tm) engine.

    How hard is it to proofread a reply to an official legal request before clicking the "send" button? Remember that this reply could easily show up in court, where the judge could (even subconciously) use your mispellings and grammatical mistakes to bias the case against you. Same goes with CmdrTaco and Hemos and their constant misuse of "then" vs. "than" and "their" vs. "they're". You're supposed to be professional journalists, for crying out loud! Professional journalists have EDITORS!

    1. Re:we geeks might make a better impression... by tswinzig · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      You're supposed to be professional journalists, for crying out loud!

      Since when?

      --

      "And like that ... he's gone."
    2. Re:we geeks might make a better impression... by fraudrogic · · Score: 1

      Actually, I took the "intellectual intellectual property of LucasArts" as sarcasm. As in "intellectual IP". sig this.

      --
      I only mod up parents of "mod parent up" posts...
    3. Re:we geeks might make a better impression... by geekster · · Score: 1

      Uhm.. yeah, may I remind you that they have done NOTHING wrong? So why the need to go over spelling and grammar?

      And what kind of judge would that be?

      Judge: "Lemme see here... you can't spell so I won't even bother to look at the evidence... guilty! Case closed!"

  34. Source Forge and Lucas by b1t+r0t · · Score: 2

    Of course if those Empire lawyers get a look at Source Forge's web ads, SF could have lots more problems than hosting ScummVM! :-)

    --

    --
    "Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
    "Open source is evil." - Microsoft
  35. Lawyers sound nice. :) by southern · · Score: 1

    At least the lawyers have a nice tone in there letter. Better then some other legal department's work that I have seen.

    --
    Chris Southern
  36. My ScummVM experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Unlike a lot of emulators I could mention, ScummVM actually seems to work well. I've played my old dusty copy of Day of the Tentacle all the way through on Linux. It looks better than in the original DOS environment (thanks to built-in anti-aliasing), and there's no speed issues. Furthermore, my USB mouse and "what's DOS?" sound card work great, where they would have failed in the original environment.

    So not only can I play a game on the platform of my choice, but even if I played it under DOS, it wouldn't work due to modern hardware.

    Not that there aren't problems. My only issue with it is sound synchronization. Sounds play a little too long, pushing everything more and more out of sync with every sound. It looks a bit like a badly dubbed film, actually. Which is actually kind of amusing in its own way, but still, it's not what I'd prefer.

  37. Activision, Coolness by fm6 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Actually, Activision doesn't even mind people distributing the games themselves. Well, most of them. They've given permission to some abandonware sites, including this one. The Zork Trilogy is conspicuously absent, however. Activision used to offer free downloads of Zork 1-3 from their own servers, but apparently these titles are now back in print.

    All of which is very cool of them. But not sueing people for writing virtual machines isn't coolness, it's just basic law. Infocom never claimed the exclusive right to implement the Z-machine specification, and probably couldn't have made that claim even if they tried.

    Now, what I'd really like is to play is the original Zork. The one that the founders wrote for ITS while students at MIT. No, not "Dungeon," that's an unauthorized port, with an incomplete game and flawed parser.

    1. Re:Activision, Coolness by Sargent1 · · Score: 2

      But not sueing people for writing virtual machines isn't coolness, it's just basic law.

      Sure, but that's never stopped companies from suing those who do such reverse engineering. Heck, look at Sony versus Bleem. I'm sad that it's gotten to the point that I thank companies for doing what they're supposed to do, but here we are anyway.

    2. Re:Activision, Coolness by esper_child · · Score: 1

      actually there is a CD that activision puts out with all the text games that they made on it (well i didn't see any missing) for about $20US I have been meaning to pick it up to fill in some holes in my collection (there were a few games I didn't get around to buying back in the day when these were on 5 1/4" floppies)

    3. Re:Activision, Coolness by fm6 · · Score: 2

      Hmm, I'm not sure, but I don't think the z-machine specification was ever a secret. Lawsuits over reverse-engineering usually stem from a EULA "promise" not to reverse engineer. But once the knowledge is out there, you can't really stop people from using it. I supposed they could have tried to patent the VM itself.

    4. Re:Activision, Coolness by fm6 · · Score: 2
      Except you don't get all the toys, comic books, etc. that Infocom used to include with their games. Which sometimes included crucial information, making the game itself unfinishable if you didn't have the other stuff. For example Trinity, if I remember correctly, had a comic book whose story sort of paralleled the plot of the game. You also needed a kind of sundial, which you had to use to relate mystic symbols in the comic book to compass directions in the game itself.

      I once bought a dumpware CD that had all the Ultima games on it. Was halfway through Ultima V when I was faced with solving a puzzle that could not be solved without the original game manual -- which was not provided. Worst of all, you couldn't save the game once the puzzle started...

  38. I bought these games because of SCUMMVM by raygundan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I heard about SCUMMVM (and PocketScumm!) a month or so ago, and used it to play my old copy of Monkey Island. I had so much fun with it, that I bought Day of the Tentacle, Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, and Sam & Max Hit the Road from LucasArts. I'm playing through IJFOA on my PocketPC at the moment. I will be buying The Dig and Full Throttle as soon as they're supported fully by SCUMMVM.

    I hope that LucasArts takes a step back and realizes the three most important things here:

    1. You need the original games to play scummvm.
    2. Scummvm lets people play lucasarts games on platforms that aren't supported by the original SCUMM .exes, which means that people like me will buy games from lucasarts to use with scummvm!
    3. Scummvm was reverse engineered, and does not infringe on the original SCUMM engine.

    You would think LucasArts would *like* more sales, freely implemented support for new platforms and happy customers. I really hope this is a genuine mistake.

    1. Re:I bought these games because of SCUMMVM by mr100percent · · Score: 1

      Where can I buy these old games? They rock, but no stores I know have them.

    2. Re:I bought these games because of SCUMMVM by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      http://www.lucasarts.com and look in the store, pc/windows, CLASSICS.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  39. ScummVM == $$ for LucasArts by Thurn+und+Taxis · · Score: 1

    it could still be argued (successfully) that the emulator would have a negative impact on potential future revenue of LucasArts products, such as a LucasArts Classics package for BSD.

    And it could be counter-argued (successfully) that if LucasArts simply used ScummVM as the engine for the aforementioned LucasArts Classics package, they would save a buttload of cash (one buttload = the NIST standard for large sums of money) by not having to develop their own engine -- even if they paid the ScummVM developers for their work rather than just redistributing it freely under its current license. The revenue is in the content, not the engine. Since LucasArts clearly still control the content, the potential revenue stream is entirely in their control. You could argue that the potential market is reduced because hardcore fans already own copies of the game, but those same fans would probably rather play the game off of one CD than 26 floppies.

    --
    On stereophonic equipment, the monaural sound obtained through multiple channels will enhance your listening pleasure.
  40. Doubtful by No+Such+Agency · · Score: 2

    I don't think LucasArts wants to re-release SCUMM "Monkey Island" with an updated engine. I think it's a great game, but it's still played partly because there's a nostalgia element to it. It hearkens back to the days when super 3D graphics weren't needed for great gameplay.

    If LucasArts releases a new Monkey Island title, it'll obviously be a whole new game, with AI NPC's, an immersive 3D world, and so on. I don't expect they're too worried about competition from the pixely, 2D 10 year old original...

    --
    Freedom: "I won't!"
    1. Re:Doubtful by geekster · · Score: 1

      Heh... they did, you know.
      It's called Escape From Monkey Island.
      And a 2D one before that. No AI NPC's though.

    2. Re:Doubtful by JimPooley · · Score: 2

      Unless they port it to the GameBoy Advance. There's already been one PC adventure game (Broken Sword) ported to the GBA, so there's a precedent.

      --

      "Information wants to be paid"
  41. Puts a halt to LucasArts cash grab...... by jsimon12 · · Score: 2

    I am sure they understand what this software actually does. They probably want to stop it because they want to re-release the software updated to run on todays OS and if someone makes something that would put a dent in those sales they will do anything to stop it.

    1. Re:Puts a halt to LucasArts cash grab...... by magic · · Score: 2
      Good theory.


      LucasArts has announced Full Throttle 2. I think they should encourage anything that will let them put Full Throttle 1 (and have any expectation of it working!) on that CD to distribute with the new game, but they may not agree.


      -magic

  42. Me too! by protomala · · Score: 1

    >and it is well known that many people (at least 50 >to my knowledge, although I am sure there are many >more) have brought classic LEC games simply to play >them using our software I own Full Throttle (come with my multimedia kit, a old creative discovery 8x) and I plan to buy The Dig once it's supported. Unhapply games more older than those I can't find here at Brazil shops, but those two are really cheap and playing them on linux is just like a dream for me.

  43. Oh, the nostalgy! by ceeam · · Score: 1

    Monkey Island...
    Day of the Tentacle...
    Grim Fandango even.
    LucasArts ruled adventure games niche big time. And Sierra's games were not even 1% close, IMHO.
    Man... Why don't they make such games anymore? I may be a minority but I (personally) can't care less about all this "texture-mapping", "photo-realistic" sh!t (Realistic?! They must be smoking smth a lot).

    Pum, param-pum, pum-pum-pum, pum-pum-pum-pum-pum, pahhm... :)

    1. Re:Oh, the nostalgy! by ctp · · Score: 1

      Hear hear!!!!

      I used to be exclusively Macintosh...but I actually bought a Wintel PC just so I could play Grim Fandango (way back when). How sick is that?

      I do wish there were more games like those being produced.

  44. So what? by nullard · · Score: 2

    Actually, they may want to repackage it one day and sell it as classic games. By making the old games accessible on the new systems, this might scratch there plans a bit.

    So what? I paid for my Indiana Jones game. It won't play on my G4. If someone writes software that lets me play the software I've already paid for, then kudos to them. Lucas can't stop them by saying "I was going to do that -- and charge!" If they make a classic games pack, I might buy it to get sound support and a newer version of The Fate of Atlantis. But claiming that a product that allows people to use LucasArts software may hinder their ability to sell a compatibility package or upgrade is pointless since there's nothing wrong with doing that.

    OT: I actually ordered The Last Crusade for Mac because I had a 5.25" floppy version for DOS. Instead, I received The Fate of Atlantis -- before it was officially released. I was pissed because it wouldn't play on my black-and-white Classic II. I had to play it on the color Performas and LCs at school. When I finally got a color computer, the first thing I did was install the game. Since I got some weird early version of the game, I have it on floppies and it doesn't have spoken text for dialogue. I'd love to get the CD version that actually had spoken dialogue -- particularly since my G4 doesn't have a floppy drive.

    --


    t'nera semordnilap
  45. Re:How is this important enough to post? by mr100percent · · Score: 1

    Obviously, you've never played a Lucasarts game. Mention a name to any person who had a computer in the early 90's and their eyes will glaze over, and they might chuckle as they recall some of the most bizarre jokes that we still can't duplicate today. You need this VM to experience the games.

  46. Confusion of Copyright and Trademark by crisco · · Score: 3, Informative
    As explained to me by our attorneys when we were confronted with issues of how and where to protect ourselves with trademarks and copyrights, a copyright holder is required to make a reasonable effort to prevent infringement. Failure to do so weakens the copyright and may set a precedent that will be damaging in a different case. Hence, if the company perceives infringement, they essentially must pursue it even if they don't actually mind that it is going on.
    You're confusing the principles (as codified into law) of copyright and trademark, in fact, the example you go on to give is of trademarks and not copyrights.

    Copyrights are automatic and do not need to be protected, Trademarks have to be applied for and do need to be protected.

    --

    Bleh!

  47. You need a clearer explanation.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    You know what your site is about, and your users know what your site is about...but when I looked at your index page, it was far from obvious to _me_ what your site was about. No wonder LucasArts' lawyers were confused! Frankly, your reply letter had the same problem, although the gist of the matter did gradually emerge.

    I suggest that you rewrite your front page to say something like this:

    "Remember those great old LucasArts games? Wish they ran on your current PC? Download our engine and they will!

    NOTE: If you don't own any of the games, this engine won't do you a speck of good. This is not an abandonware site, so don't expect to download them here."

  48. True, but... by ryman · · Score: 1

    Read Ender's comment . The guy deserves a little slack I think. Also, just to appease my own nitpicking side, you missed many...fans have brought classic... ;)

    --
    "We are far too easily pleased." --C.S. Lewis
  49. What WOULD help.... by Danse · · Score: 2

    The ScummVM guys could really use an editor! That email was chock full of typos and spelling errors! It was painful to read!

    --
    It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    1. Re:What WOULD help.... by minkeyboodle · · Score: 1

      Not only that, the overall tone and general grammer of the original LEC email makes me think it came from some other source. I find it hard to believe it actually came from an official representative of LEC, much less someone from their Business and Legal Affairs department. Is this a fake?

  50. star control 2 -- offtopic by coronaride · · Score: 1

    speaking of abandonware, does anyone know where one can either find a downloadable version of Star Control 2 or a vm that allows it to run with sound, etc? what a great game..

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, go into business for themselves.
    1. Re:star control 2 -- offtopic by dvanduzer · · Score: 1

      Amen to this... If anyone comes up with something, I want to hear about it. Star Control 2 was the greatest game ever. EVAR!!!

      sorry.

  51. It's time for a Software Bill of Rights by TrebleJunkie · · Score: 1

    It really is time for a Software Bill of Rights.

    We, as a community of software users, consumers, and citizens need to let companies know that WE know that we have certain rights, we KNOW what they are, and that if they admit that they realize that, we're going to boycott them. Completely.

    I'm sure it'd be a minor thing to the Lucas Empire if we stopped buying old copies of Maniac Mansion or Monkey Island, but if we told him, "Fuck you, George, Episodes 3, 7, 8 and 9 can kiss my rosy red ass" Hopefully they'd think twice about hounding someone who created a perfectly legitimate piece of software.

    I realize there's problems with this. First, we need a platform, a voice, a document. (It doesn't have to be a *legal* document, a piece of legislation. Just a statement that says that we know we have a right to media-shift our software, reverse-engineer our software to provide interoperability, know where the bugs are, (and fix them if the company won't, doesn't, or can't,) and so on and so on and so on. ) Then, we need companies to take it seriously. And, of course, we need people with some principles to actually *not* support the companies that don't admit, adopt, or accept those rights. (In plain English, that means *DOING WITHOUT* WarCraft 3, or the next what's-sure-to-be-godawful Star Wars flick. Not buying it, not stealing it, nothing.)
    Admittedly, I'm not very hopeful there. Slashdot illustrates on a daily basis that principled people are few and far between. We need people to do the homework and tell us, "Okay, Company A is being dickish, here... Company B is the parent company, companies C, D, and E are the subsidiaries..." We need a lot.

    Or maybe it's more than just software... call it the Digital Media Bill of Rights... Whatever you call it, though, the intent is the same: Get enough people together to make a *principled* stand for the rights that we have, and totally boycott those companies that don't go along with it.

    That principled stand may be the hardest part of it all. *You* have to be willing to possibly do without your blessed mainstream entertainment and software for a while to make it work. Can you do that?

    --

    Ed R.Zahurak

    You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.

  52. but than... by alienmole · · Score: 1

    ...but than /. would be like MSNBC, and they'red be no fun in it!

  53. GET THIS PROGRAM! by freeweed · · Score: 2

    I'd never even heard of this before seeing it posted on slashdot; ironically I spent an afternoon not too long ago rebuilding my 486 for the very purpose of playing these games (fast cpu + win2k + pci soundcard == no DOS games :( ).

    This is absolutely amazing.. the setup is a bit of a bitch to figure out (their readme is a bit obtuse), but once configured, the games run (as far as I can tell) flawlessly. Taking into consideration the much better MIDI support on my SBLive! card (the intro tune for Sam N Max is incredible) and the antialiasing, the games look as good as anything 2D I'd expect.

    Even better is the ability to run them off the harddrive (back in the day my whopping 540MB woulda been filled with just Sam and DOTT). No more swapping CD's!

    --
    Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
  54. Star Control 2 Linux native port (among others) by Junta · · Score: 2

    It's official, SC2 is getting native ports to several platforms, see following URL:
    http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/

    Looks like they'll be using SDL to pull it off, very cool.

    If impatient, some good leads on buying the DOS version are here:
    http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/ge tsc/

    Running the classic with sound, best bet if you do not have an ISA soundblaster card is dosemu. There are Dosemu sound patches at the following URL that improve the accuracy of the sound emulation with games like SC2 with DosEmu, while not perfect, can be a stop-gap until the ports are officially released.
    http://koti.mbnet.fi/lonnberg/DOSEmuSound.html

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:Star Control 2 Linux native port (among others) by dvanduzer · · Score: 1

      There is a god! Finding out about the existence of ScummVM today was amazing enough, and now this?! ALL HAIL DOGAR AND KAZON!

  55. Fair use as well by Arcturax · · Score: 2

    I bought these games a long time ago for the Macintosh. You *cannot* run them under Mac OS X, even under Classic because Classic requries virtual memory to be on and the games do NOT play well with Classic's virtual memory.

    So what this allows is for me to play these games on the same Macintosh I bought them for (A G3/266) without having to reboot my machine and kill my web server and other stuff I have running under Mac OS X.

    --

    --Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
  56. LucasArts does not want these games to run on PCs by Cryogenes · · Score: 2
    The old LucasArts games no longer make money on PCs - they already were bundled and rebundled years ago, ad nauseam.

    However, they might make money on handheld machines. Therefore, LucasArts would prefer their old games to be unplayable on modern PCs, so that they will appear fresh and exclusive when they are released for handhelds.

    Do you believe in death after life?

  57. PocketScumm is already here. by raygundan · · Score: 2

    D'oh! Unfortunately for them (if this is what they're really thinking), ScummVM has already been ported to the PocketPC. And I love it, and have already purchased 3 new games for it directly from LucasArts' online store.

    http://arisme.free.fr/PocketScumm/

  58. Shameless plug by Aash · · Score: 1
    This seems like a good time for me to do a very shameless plug for my new website. It's a comic based on the LucasArts game "Day of the Tentacle."

    http://members.rogers.com/mnusair/

    --

    --
    These aren't the droids you're looking for.
  59. The old saying is: by Rimbo · · Score: 2

    "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity."

    This has all the markings of a simple misunderstanding on LucasArts' part, and not a malicious assault. Once an understanding is reached (that is: 1. ScummVM didn't steal anything, and 2. ScummVM causes people to buy more LucasArts games) the two sides will hopefully see the light -- provided they work towards the goal of understanding each other together, and don't turn this into an antagonistic battle.

    LucasArts and ScummVM stand to benefit from each other; ScummVM needs to work towards achieving an understanding with LucasArts. ScummVM's response looks like a good step in this direction.

  60. Makes your kid cry when their game won't workl... by The_Dougster · · Score: 1

    They go and pick out some kids game at Wally-Mart and you bring it home and try and install it only to discover dum-de-dum-dum it won't work with your Windows XP because of some stupid sound card conflict or buggy memory driver. Yet they still sell this stuff.

    I have a whole stack of games that don't work anymore with Windows. More and more I can play in Linux or Wine or FreeDOS, but these reverse engineering schemes are definately a good thing.

    Just try and get Wing Commander Privateer to work on your new XP box. I bet the sound won't work.

    --
    Clickety Click ...
  61. Re:Makes your kid cry when their game won't workl. by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

    Perhaps. It's all in the soundcard. Or, more accurately, the drivers. I actually keep a copy of Privateer, amoung other games, on my laptop, which, admittedly, runs win98, not XP. But I boots it into dos, and the yamaha sound chip in it has KICK ASS pure dos drivers for soundblaster 16(! not pro!) emulation.

    That having been said, I also built a P120 with Awe32 for the games that use damn timing loops.

    --
    Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.