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WebTV/MSNTV Virus Dials 911

Semji Rkim writes: "Though not the first virus to direct modems at 911, ABC News is reporting a bug in WebTV (Now branded as MSNTV) units which causes the infected unit to hang-up and dial 911. The virus spreads via email and Microsoft officials are looking into how it is able to replicate and also control the modem. Affected users are advised to delete the email and call Microsoft at 1-800-469-3288."

160 of 515 comments (clear)

  1. Can't be true by CodeWheeney · · Score: 5, Funny

    This can't be true. Microsoft just spent a whole month focusing on security. There must be some mistake.

    --
    C8H10N4O2 | Developer > Code
    1. Re:Can't be true by C.U.T.M. · · Score: 2, Funny

      You must be confused. Palladium is going to fix this. They've only focused long enough to figure that out.

    2. Re:Can't be true by matrix29 · · Score: 2

      Microsoft penis enlargement: The purple scream of death.

      Nah, they'd just send some pills that would shrink the penis until it's a nubby dot, but they would send you progressively smaller scaled down rulers to make it appear everything about your penis got bigger (ergo - The first week the ruler measures 1"=1", second week 1" on their ruler would equal 1/2" on a normal ruler. The third week 1 normal inch = 1/4" on a normal ruler). That way they could appear to be showing extreme growth, but all they are doing is shrinking their rulers drastically compared to a regular ruler.

      And of course they'd include a cream as their Free Genital Security Upgrade that would give you genital lice so they could sell you completely ineffective "cures" which end up coloring the lice a different shade or make the lice smell better, but never actually kill the bugs. You'd need a third-party solution that would make the bugs only bother you during the night. And then the Microsoft Penis Enlarger Corp would outlaw "Linux-Rit" which effectively kills the lice, but gives a small percentage of the population allergic reactions. That of course would give Microsoft Penis Enlarger Corp the basis for another lawsuit.

      --
      "Face it, a nation that maintains a 72% approval rating on George W. Bush is a nation with a very loose grip on reality.
  2. This is serious by jandrese · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Tying up 911 lines costs lives. In many jurisdictions you can be fined for prank calling 911, especially if you are a repeat offender. WebTV users would be well advised to be very careful with their email until this problem is resolved.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
    1. Re:This is serious by Jonny+Ringo · · Score: 5, Funny

      WebTV users would be well advised to be very careful with their email until this problem is resolved.

      I'd one up you on that, and advise WebTV users to take their WebTV out to the back yard with a baseball bat. You know like on Office space.

      Then, call the MS 1800 number and say that you found a fix.

    2. Re:This is serious by HanzoSan · · Score: 5, Informative



      Yeah Its wrong to tie up 911 but 911 is the only number which could fit into the command string for ATH0.

      Yes its ATH0, not a virus.

      ATH0 Exploit

      ATH0 info

      --
      If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    3. Re:This is serious by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Under the new hacking legislation reported in slashdot earlier, could this make the creator liable for the death penalty?

    4. Re:This is serious by jat850 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hmm, maybe if there was any mention of the death penalty in that legislation. But there wasn't. :)

      --
      the blood has stopped pumping, and he's left to decay
      the me that you know is now made up of wires
    5. Re:This is serious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah. It's funny, this ex-microsoft chief is running around screaming about how worms will destroy everything by 2005, but right here we have a worm tying up 911 lines and possibly ending lives, today.

      Oh, wait, except that the ex-microsoft chief seems to be blaming TCP/IP and power companies and traffic light manufacturers and, well, everyone except Microsoft, for how much of a problem these "zero-day worms" are, and very distantly implying a palladium style global user-distrust technology would be the answer, from looking at that article. Funny how this sort of thing (massive-scale destructive worms) never seems to happen anymore except through Microsoft products.. I personally wonder if we'd see less of this Code Red / Klez stuff if we had less of a computing monoculture.

    6. Re:This is serious by gmack · · Score: 2

      I doubt it.. webtvs use a software modem wich most likely doesn't even respond to AT commands. Theres also the matter of the virus shutting down the system after.

      OTH this is proof that "Trusted Computing" won't fix anything.

    7. Re:This is serious by sean23007 · · Score: 2, Troll

      What about 411? Last time I checked, they were the same number of digits. 411: 1+1+1=3. 911: 1+1+1=3. Okay, another quick doublecheck proves it, 911 and 411 have the same number of digits.

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    8. Re:This is serious by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Informative
      most software modems respond to the AT (Hayes) command set, either in hardware, or in software, or a bit of both. Depends on the implementation. Just a quick fyi :-)

    9. Re:This is serious by murphj · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Quoted from parent's link:
      The patent was a "submarine" patent -- that is, one that issues long after others in the industry have begun using the same technique or technology ... The patent involved the timing of the escape sequence: The characters "+++" followed by a 1-second pause. To get around the patent, some modem vendors simply eliminated the pause, so that the sequence +++AT would bring the modem back to command mode in all cases.
      It's interesting that the only reason this works is that Hayes pulled the same trick Forgent is trying with JPEG.

      --
      SONY. Because caucasians are just too damn tall.
    10. Re:This is serious by lightcycler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Whoever wrote this should get some SERIOUS jail time"

      No, the director of the company who wrote the software should.

      If I kick a wall and the building falls down, whose fault is it? mine or the architect's?

    11. Re:This is serious by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 2

      Ya got me. I was wrong.

      How about life in prison then?

    12. Re:This is serious by TheMidget · · Score: 4, Funny
      You know like on Office space.

      But, if there's a fire at the office, you're supposed to call 911...

    13. Re:This is serious by Aqua+OS+X · · Score: 2

      Seriously. I could care less about most viri. They're typcially targeted at things I hate :) However, calling 911 is just plain tasteless. People's lives are one the line.

      Whoever wrote this thing is an evil 'lil sh*t. Why couldn't he/she point this toward some tech-help phones over at AOL or Worldcom? Do some good :)

      --
      "Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
    14. Re:This is serious by rarose · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah but at least Hayes *invented* the patent and used it to actually create product instead of being a Johnny-come-lately shake down artist.

      --
      --Rob
    15. Re:This is serious by mbadolato · · Score: 2

      Only in some areas. A lot of areas are just 4-1-1.

    16. Re:This is serious by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Umm... If in building a building, it is built such that a couple of kicks will make it fall down, it's not the kicker who should get his ass kicked.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    17. Re:This is serious by flacco · · Score: 2
      I'd one up you on that, and advise WebTV users to take their WebTV out to the back yard with a baseball bat. You know like on Office space.

      Uhhh, yeah..... if you could go ahead and file a TPS report on that, that would be great... terrific.....

      --
      pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
    18. Re:This is serious by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 2

      Yes, politicians are liable for death penalty laws. But it is still good english for a criminal to be "liable for the death penalty." It is a common phrase. Do a google search.

      Dumbass.

    19. Re:This is serious by greenrd · · Score: 2
      Oh, that sounds highly innovative. A patent that could be worked around by ommitting a one second pause.

      What genius thought that one up?

      The non-obviousness of patents will continue to amaze me.

  3. Hehe... by brogdon · · Score: 4, Funny

    "911, what's your emergency?" "I've got a Microsoft product in my living room!" "What?" "I've got a Microsoft product in my living room! AIIIIGH!"

    --


    This tagline is umop apisdn.
  4. Don't be fooled! by quantaman · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's not a virus!
    It's just the poor MSN infected boxes crying out for help!!

    --
    I stole this Sig
  5. Voice of Stephen Hawking.... by simetra · · Score: 4, Funny

    When 911 operator answers, the virus plays a wav file, in the voice of Stephen Hawking's voice thing:
    "Help Me. I have Web TV. Help Me"

    --

    "Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
  6. ATH0 by HanzoSan · · Score: 5, Informative


    Any knowledgeable hacker knows about ATH0, it effects around 50 percent of 56k/33/28 modems.

    With this, I was able to hang up peoples connections and even make them dial phone numbers, you send the modem commands and because of a bug, the modems obey the commands.

    Its not a virus, Its something thats been going on for years, its an old trick/exploit.hack

    --
    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    1. Re:ATH0 by Mr+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, a later hit was more interesting: Explanation of what is happening

    2. Re:ATH0 by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      wow, that's pretty scary.
      If you can make it hang up, can you make it dial (ATDT)?

      Imagine some goon on IRC makes your modem dial his number so he can grab it on CallerId and then harass you. :\

    3. Re:ATH0 by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2

      Its not a virus, Its something thats been going on for years, its an old trick/exploit.hack
      That's akin to saying "this so-called 'virus' that deletes files is not a virus - I've been deleting files for years!" Its the behavior of the code, not its payload, that defines it. In other words - if the email itself includes code that infects the host device and then attempts to replicate, its pretty much met the definition of a virus.

      Granted - this article is rather light on detail. It doesn't specifically state that is what's going on - only that Microsoft tech support is reseting devices. It could simply be a mass emailing.

      Of course, that might be the point HanzoSan was trying to make.
    4. Re:ATH0 by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's why good PPP implimentations escape the '+' character. And why smart people include "S2=255" in their init string. The S2 register defaults to 43. (The decimal value for the '+' character.) Setting it to 255 disables the the "+++" feature. Of course with out being able to go "+++" (wait) "ATH0" you need to be able to hang up the modem by manipulating the control lines (which most programs can do). Oh, I say "wait" cause good modems require a 3 second pause after the "+++" to enter command mode. I think that is how some modems go uneffected as you can't get the "+++" to be the only thing sent for 3 seconds and then continue with the commands.

      Ah the old BBS days. I remember some fool on the local board I hung out on had some crappy term program that would hang up if it saw "NO CARRIER" at the start of a line. Now why would a communication program issue an ATH0 after the carrier had been dropped?

    5. Re:ATH0 by strictnein · · Score: 2

      It's a freeware program idiot.

      Strangely, you don't get a lot of money pandering freeware programs.

      It's actually somewhat of a neat program

    6. Re:ATH0 by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2

      So when did/does the Hayes patent expire? Can they be sued for consequential damage and loss of life?

    7. Re:ATH0 by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2

      Any knowledgeable hacker knows about ATH0, it effects around 50 percent of 56k/33/28 modems

      If ATH0 didn't affect my modem, I think I'd return it as defective.

    8. Re:ATH0 by HanzoSan · · Score: 2

      you dont need to use the utlity to send the commands, the utlity just automates the process.

      Second, its not my homepage. Third its freeware.

      --
      If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    9. Re:ATH0 by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 2

      and this is what you get when some friggin genius patents the delay there.

      Really? Is there a patent on the delay after "+++" to enter command mode? Is that why some modems don't impliment this (absolutely needed) feature?

    10. Re:ATH0 by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* Really? Is there a patent on the delay after "+++" to enter command mode? *)

      In the spirit of patenting a delay, the patent office should have delayed the patent for a century or two.

    11. Re:ATH0 by toastyman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What's really amusing....

      Back when this was first "discovered", I was one of the people on Bugtraq discussing how this could be exploited.

      I very stupidly posted what I typed to knock myself off, with my real nickname included: //raw NOTICE ToastyMan : $+ $chr(1) $+ PING +++ATH0 $+ $chr(1)

      For the longest time, I couldn't sign on IRC on any major network without someone actually typing that verbatim, and sending that to me.

      In the past couple of years I've received thousands of those. Kinda funny. :)

    12. Re:ATH0 by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 2

      I believe we're basically saying the same thing. My point is that this is, in fact, a virus if it involves code that infects and replicates itself. Period. It may also have a payload, in this case exlpoiting a bug in the device's MODEM. But just because it is using a known exploit does not make it less a virus.

      If, in fact, that is what's going on. Its hard to tell as the article was a bit confusing and woefully light on detail (passing up on oportunity to bash TechTV).

      From what I read of the article... its just as likely that this is a simple exploit from a mass emailing. Microsoft's tech support might be over reacting by reseting customer's devices. Perhapse. Don't know.

    13. Re:ATH0 by matrix29 · · Score: 2

      That attack can work against users, too. If properly placed and timed, a NO CARRIER can be very convincing...

      All those AOL-nitwits will always fall for obvious pranks.

      My favorite is to go into an online RPG, make a character named "SYSTEM ERROR" or "PROGRAM VIOLATION" or "OUT OF MEMORY" or "ERROR 125" then go up to a bunch of newbies and EMOTE - "Please Shut Down Your Computer and Reboot".

      Nothing as giggle inducing as seeing a bunch of idiots blink offline because they EXPECT AND ARE USED TO continual MICROSOFT CRAPWARE system bugs.

      People are TOO DAMN GULLIBLE THESE DAYS. Not an ounce of critical independant thinking among the lot of them it seems.

      --
      "Face it, a nation that maintains a 72% approval rating on George W. Bush is a nation with a very loose grip on reality.
    14. Re:ATH0 by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 2

      I wasn't late in the game for that. I was screwin with ANSI bugs back in the BBS Days. =) The most annoying one was the "beep" character.

  7. Colour me impressed by Aexia · · Score: 5, Funny

    that a virii could hack a MSN/WebTV unit *and* propagate itself to other MSN/WebTV users.

    Microsoft advises affected customers to delete the email and call 1-800-469-3288.

    Suggestion for next iteration of virus: dial this number instead.

    1. Re:Colour me impressed by warmcat · · Score: 2

      hahaha - too bad I don't have mod points today :-)

    2. Re:Colour me impressed by greenrd · · Score: 2
      Microsoft officials are looking into how it is able to replicate and also control the modem.

      So - do you know something that "Microsoft officials" don't? Or are you just guessing?

  8. Trustworthy Computing.... by Barondude · · Score: 3, Funny

    I guess they never said trustworthy phone dialing.

    --
    "That's the sort of blinkered, philistine pig ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage."-Monty Python
  9. Legal Consequences? by jonman_d · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If (incredibly hypothetical?) the guy/gal who wrote this virus gets caught, can he/she be fined/jailed for each and every call made to 911? If so, how long would you be in jail for/how much would you have to pay?

    1. Re:Legal Consequences? by NanoGator · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, if Microsoft presses charges, then it'll probably be 1 count for every computer they have whether it can run Windows or not.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Legal Consequences? by Fjord · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just asking for a "friend", right? :)

      --
      -no broken link
    3. Re:Legal Consequences? by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Informative
      Ask general Motors about the judgement against them for $4.9 billion (that's Billion, not an Million).

      Search for the law firm that got it Greene, Broillet, Panish & Wheeler

      Here's a quote from their web site: Punitive Damages A Los Angeles jury hit GM with a $4.9 billion punitive damage award for callously calculating that human lives were worth no more than $200,000 each. As shown in GM's internal documents, this figure came from their own legal department. It enabled GM executives to make a deliberate decision to allow 300-500 people a year to burn to death and thousands of others to suffer burn injuries instead of spending $8.59 per vehicle to put in a safer fuel tank.

    4. Re:Legal Consequences? by GutBomb · · Score: 2

      where does microsoft claim that they know that webtv is uncrackable?

    5. Re:Legal Consequences? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2

      When they sell locks that they KNOW don't secure properly 100% of the time, yes.

      What lock do you know of that secures properly 100% of the time?

    6. Re:Legal Consequences? by zerocool^ · · Score: 2

      ...it'll probably be 1 count for every...

      I don't know if the DoJ computers can handle anything over MAXINT number of counts of a crime...

      ~Will

      --
      sig?
  10. Liability? by Quixote · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is bad, because 911 services cost real taxpayer money. The question is: can Microsoft be held liable for wasting my taxpayer dollars because of their product's flaws?

    1. Re:Liability? by t0qer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're saying it's MS's fault someone not an MS employee wrote this malicious code?

      If it's anyone's liability it comes down to the person that wrote the virus. The same thing COULD be done on a linux system too, should linus be held liable? Should the whole open source community be held liable?

      Your comment was stupid, I just wanted to point that out.

    2. Re:Liability? by Peyna · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're liable for purchasing MS software, thus promoting them, and giving them money to produce said hole in their software. Your parents are liable for giving birth to you, but it wasn't their fault because the condom broke. Therefore, it is Trojan's fault, but it isn't their fault because it is Margaret Sanger's fault for promoting birth control. I can keep going if you like.

      --
      What?
    3. Re:Liability? by schon · · Score: 2

      Nobody held a gun to your head and made you buy anything

      OK, I'll bite.

      What, exactly, does this have to do with ANYTHING the poster said?

      Are you suggesting that nobody forced him to pay taxes? That's complete bunk.

      He never mentioned anything about buying anything, nor did he say that he bought anything from MS.

      He said: "can MS be held liable for wasting my tax dollars" - meaning "MS's negligence allowed this to happen, so can't they be held liable?"

    4. Re:Liability? by t0qer · · Score: 2

      That's just ignorant...

      A virus packaged with a root kit for example would circumvent your little point and make your comment totally useless!

      With the recent root exploit on apache, it probably won't be too long before someone writes a worm to look for all those unpatched apache boxes. Yours could be next!

      Lets recap.
      Worm that uses the apache exploit gains root (no rootkit needed)
      Worm then makes modem dial 911, just ATDT 911 is needed, no ATH0 911

      Get it? BTW your point of if you're running a linux box you're NOT running WebTV, which is how it propagates. is moot because this thread was about liability, not how the virus propegates.

    5. Re:Liability? by mickwd · · Score: 2

      Tying up emergency lines can cost lives.

      Compared to that I say BOLLOCKS to the small amount of taxpayer dollars it costs you.

    6. Re:Liability? by daeley · · Score: 2

      It's almost like saying it's GM's fault that someone can drive a car drunk and kill themselves.

      No, it's more like saying it's GM's fault that some vandal can pour sugar in the gas tank because the cap isn't locked behind a door.

      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    7. Re:Liability? by SirSlud · · Score: 2

      Um.

      Ever wonder why Microsoft systems are often targets of viruses? Virii's are often the products of a virus author going, "I'll show you your stupid ad campaigns about how secure your OS is are false!" They are the technical equivilent, in many cases, of an "I Told You So!"

      Stupid comments like yours that claim Linux is infailable is what makes virii writers go after your box in the first place.

      You're waving a target in the air, with the words "I Dare You" painted on it. Do not do the Linux community this vast disservice, thank you.

      "The best way to get shot isn't to wave a gun." misses the point. The best way to be _noticed_ is .. and then you'd learn the reality that nothing is infailable or perfect. Nothing.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    8. Re:Liability? by blamanj · · Score: 2

      No, it's more like saying it's GM's fault that some vandal can pour sugar in the gas tank because the cap isn't locked behind a door.

      Actually, it's more like some vandal pours sugar into your gas tank, and your car drives next door and siphons some of the gas into your neighbors car.

      I think there is a real liability question. Not in the initial act of vandalism, but that the system can be considered faulty for allowing the vandalism to spread so easily.

      Software manufacturers have gotten off the hook for crummy software for too long. Look at the kinds of recalls that happen in the auto industry. Somebody gets a rash from the dye they use to color a seat belt, and 100,000 cars get recalled at the manufacturers expense. Microsoft and others need to be accountable for quality, too.

    9. Re:Liability? by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 2

      "What, exactly, does this have to do with ANYTHING the poster said?"

      His comment was dripping with "I hate Windows so I hope MS has to pay in some way or another.". It doesn't take a telepath to see that.

    10. Re:Liability? by t0qer · · Score: 2

      So ford should be held liable for building OJ's Bronco?

      Monkeys in africa should be held liable for being the first to contract aids?

      My parents should be held accountable for every fuckup I ever did in my life?

      Your biological virus argument has no basis in the silicon world. The only person who knowingly infected these boxes was the original virus writer, not MS.

      By your logic we should hold god accountable for making humans compatible with aids.

    11. Re:Liability? by marick · · Score: 2

      This vulnerability has a simple patch. All modems are known to be vulnerable to ATH0 commands. You can disable command mode by making a change in the registry in windows.

      Can Microsoft be held liable for selling a product with a LONG-KNOWN vulnerability and NOT fixing it with the WebTV auto-updating functionality. Assuming that it is easy to fix, of course, which I am (of course) assuming.

      And by the way, YES, WebTV has always been able to auto-update.

    12. Re:Liability? by schon · · Score: 2

      I thought it was the best way to make him understand where the responsibility really is.

      But it doesn't, because part of the responsibility really is Microsoft's.

      MS made a product. They sold a product. Due to a defect in the product, it's possible for the product to cause harm to a third party.

      I'm not saying that MS should be held solely responsible, but this isn't a new attack - this type of thing has been known for over 10 years, and yet MS didn't do anything about it. That makes them negligent, and therefore liable.

    13. Re:Liability? by t0qer · · Score: 2

      Yes but what you are describing is a pre-existing motive. If M$ had manufactured these boxes with the INTENT to leave this hole open (Look at intent) Then they could be held liable.

      The only person with the INTENT to spread the virus is the original virus writer himself. Maybe you just hate MS and can't look at the issue objectively enough?

    14. Re:Liability? by NanoGator · · Score: 2

      Let me ask you this: What if a feature of the product (as opposed to a flaw) was exploited? Would MS be liable then? I don't think so. It'd be one thing if they didn't provide a patch. (I wouldn't think highly of anybody who didn't make at least an effort to address a problem like that)

      On the other hand, there's no such thing as a product that couldn't be abused. Cars could be made with a capped top speed of 75 (which is practical), but they don't. I'm reasonably certain that there's never been a successful lawsuit against a car company because soembody died when they crashed at 100+ MPH.

      To put it another way: Punish MS for this, and you'll open the door to punish a whole lotta companies for a similar deal. I'm not fond of MS, but I don't want that sequence of events to happen.

      I'm also not fond of overreactive claims by somebody who clearly has a bloodlust against MS.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    15. Re:Liability? by carambola5 · · Score: 2

      IANAL, but it seems like this problem could have been easily avoided. Using that as a premise, one could litigate against M$ on the grounds of negligence. According to some of the other posts, this bug has been known for quite some time and has been patched on a variety of comm devices (modems). Also, referencing other posts, the WebTV/MSNTV devices can be auto-upgraded, implying that M$ not just had the knowledge that the problem existed BUT ALSO the ability to fix it within a reasonable cost structure.

      So, no, it wasn't a stupid comment... just under-/poorly-explained. I guess you could equate it with a home security system:

      • Company comes over and installs a very complex security system at your house. Only problem is that there is a very old component used in the system that alerts the police to a hostile break-in if a number of normal circumstances align at the same time.
      • These certain circumstances are:
        1. Ggarage door is closed
        2. Upstairs window open
        3. Dog in the basement triggering motion detector
        4. The owner sets the "HOME" option (the one that triggers if certain windows/doors are opened, but not the main door)
      • Home user is happy with their system for months... even years, until these certain circumstances align. Uh-oh. Silent hostile alarm goes off.
      • 5 Minutes later, the doorbell rings. It's a cop with gun unholstered. His partner is in the bushes targeting the door. Another trooper is walking around the back.
      • You tell the cops nothing happened. They say they've seen this happen before, but because you required the attention of multiple police officers, you will need to pay a modest $50.

      Sound impossible? Well, it happened to us (except swap in a malfunctioning keypad for all the coincidences). And yes, we did get fined because it had happened before.

      Making M$ pay a little doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.

      --
      IWARS.
      People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
    16. Re:Liability? by t0qer · · Score: 2

      Don't argue with me about it - the courts have already decided that knowingly having sex when you are at risk of transmitting the AIDS virus is attempted murder.

      You warped the law to fit your comment. If that really is the law then all humans should be locked up because we are all "AIDS PNP"

      It should read.
      The courts have already decided that IF you HAVE aids and you KNOWINGLY have SEX with a PERSON without DISCLOSING that you HAVE aids then you are guilty of Attempted murder.

      The webtv boxes did not come with aids installed.

    17. Re:Liability? by t0qer · · Score: 2

      Making M$ pay a little doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.


      So what kind of message does that send out to virus writers?

      "Yeah it's a free for all on M$! Go ahead and write viruses for their OS because we'll hold M$ liable and not you because j00 4r3 50 l33t!"

      No I think thats the wrong message. It should be stopped at the source, M$ didn't sell webtv units with the virus installed.

    18. Re:Liability? by snake_dad · · Score: 2

      Keep this up for a bit longer and you'll be sueing god... ):-> btw, ever get in trouble while surfing to your site and typing picek.ath0.cx?

      --
      karma capped .sig seeking available Slashdot poster for long-term relationship.
    19. Re:Liability? by guttentag · · Score: 3, Funny
      I can just see the FBI going to Redmond to settle the issue of liability:

      FBI: "The kid says your computer called 911. What the hell is going on, Bill? I woke up the president and told him we were under attack by the Russians. Do you have any idea what kind of an idiot that makes me look like?"

      Bill: "David, machines don't call people."

    20. Re:Liability? by snake_dad · · Score: 2
      My parents should be held accountable for every fuckup I ever did in my life?

      Depends on your age, doesn't it?

      --
      karma capped .sig seeking available Slashdot poster for long-term relationship.
    21. Re:Liability? by geekoid · · Score: 2

      unless MS claimed in some way that this couldn't happen, in which case you could sue them.

      Example:
      If FORD said there car windows where unbreakable, and it turned out there not, FORD would have liability.

      Of course the Writer of the exploit is responsible as well.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    22. Re:Liability? by Quixote · · Score: 2
      Compared to that I say BOLLOCKS to the small amount of taxpayer dollars it costs you.

      While I understand your passion, I was trying to simplify things. I am well aware that tying the emergency services costs lives, and that lives are much, much more important than money. But quantifying this "tying" is difficult to do. On the other hand, it is easy to calculate the cost of these false alarms: x false alarms at the rate of average y dollars each = x*y dollars.

    23. Re:Liability? by Peyna · · Score: 2

      Odd how that site works =] I've got port 80 blocked right now, so nothing is going to come through for the moment. (I need to patch apache and a few things, easiest to block it at the firewall until I've done so)

      --
      What?
    24. Re:Liability? by Quixote · · Score: 2
      Let me reiterate: I know that lives are much, much more important than money! But it would be very hard to quantify the lost lives due to this negligence; however, if you wanted to calculate the cost of the false alarms, all you have to do is count them and multiply by the average cost of a call.

      Secondly: I am not a Microsoft basher (though I don't like many of their practices). I asked this question because I know people who work in the emergency services (cops, firemen, EMTs) and I know how hard they work.

      Thirdly, the Coporate World only understands the langudage of money. They really don't give a rats ass for anything else. Their only responsibility is to their shareholders and the bottom line. By putting a dollar figure on their negligence (see point #4 too), you are forcing them to act.

      Just a couple of days ago, 18 million pounds of ground meat was recalled due to potential contamination with a deadly bacteria (E. Coli). The company (ConAgra) knows that if someone dies, their ass will be sued all the way to hell. So, they're doing "the right thing" by recalling the meat.

      Finally: Microsoft has the ability to update the MSNTV/WebTV box while it is sitting in the customer's house. The customer is paying for a monthly service for this maintenance. So, in a sense, Microsoft still has control of the box. Hence the liability comes in.

    25. Re:Liability? by Tony-A · · Score: 2

      Why didn't you make informed decisions about your purchases?
      From a Microsoft advertisement????

      It's not like Slashdot doesn't report every single flaw in MS stuff.
      "every". Hardly. Just the ones you need to know about if you're supposed to be supporting the stuff.

    26. Re:Liability? by Tony-A · · Score: 2

      I'm confused. How is what Sony did or did not do at a convention a flaw in MS stuff?

    27. Re:Liability? by NanoGator · · Score: 2

      I'd answer if your question didn't confuse me, heh.

      Sony was doing something wrong with their exhibit. MS complained about it. Sony packed up and left (or at least that particular exhibit did). The headline on /. was "MS kicked Sony out of CeBit." An accurate headline would have been "Sony f'd up at CeBit, threw a temper tantrum, and left."

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    28. Re:Liability? by schon · · Score: 2

      Cars could be made with a capped top speed of 75 (which is practical), but they don't.

      Apples and oranges. Travelling at 75MPH isn't necessarily unsafe, and it's directly under the control of the driver.

      If, on the other hand, your car had a tendancy to burst to 100MPH, and there was nothing you could do to stop it, and HELL YES there would be lawsuits.

      Punish MS for this, and you'll open the door to punish a whole lotta companies for a similar deal. I'm not fond of MS, but I don't want that sequence of events to happen.

      You mean like the lawsuits against Ford and Firestone stopped car manufacturers from making cars?

      Sorry, try again.

    29. Re:Liability? by NanoGator · · Score: 2

      Hmm know what I see happening? I'll come up with a metaphor to defeat yours, and then you'll come up with one to defeat mine, but we never come to agreeance. Heh.

      What do ya say we chalk this one up as a draw instead of wasting energy in a futile effort? :)

      --
      "Derp de derp."
  11. Trustworthy Computing to the rescue! by Eric+Seppanen · · Score: 2

    None of this will be possible once you all surrender minute-by-minute control over all your computing devices to Microsoft. Duh.

    --
    314-15-9265
  12. Phone Firewall by NanoGator · · Score: 2

    Kinda makes you ache for a phone-firewall, doesn't it? Heh.

    Hmm I could block 911 & telemarketers...

    --
    "Derp de derp."
    1. Re:Phone Firewall by NanoGator · · Score: 2

      "... maybe it wouldn't work if they blocked the caller ID-ness"...

      Personally, I'd set the firewall to block anonymous calls heh.

      Okay, Im way off topic here, but I do have a question: a friend of mine had it set up to where you HAD to dial a *XX number to disable anonymous calling or the call wouldn't go through. Anybody know what that service is called?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Phone Firewall by Moonshadow · · Score: 2

      I remember hearing about a phone firewall, of sorts. Basically, it sends a signal at the beginning of every call that says "this number's disconnected". Regular users don't hear it, but telemarketers' autodialers do. Your number is then removed from their list as out of order.

      I want one.

    3. Re:Phone Firewall by realdpk · · Score: 2

      I didn't buy it in our market because they called/telemarketed me up a few times offering it to me. That was probably the last straw, I no longer answer that phone.

    4. Re:Phone Firewall by realdpk · · Score: 2

      The part I don't get is how regular people don't hear it? If it's just a recording of it, I'd hear it and hang up if someone I called had that.

    5. Re:Phone Firewall by fobbman · · Score: 2

      Great idea for a geeky horror flick.

      When your firewall is up, no one can hear you scream.

    6. Re:Phone Firewall by NanoGator · · Score: 2

      Heh. I knew somebody was going to assume something like that.

      Of course the firewall'd have per-phone (or outlet) options. It'd be simple enough to specify that your computer can only make local calls. Even better, you could only allow the phone #'s of your ISP.

      Setting up your 'phone firewall' with the same rules for every single phone in your house is a bit on the absurd side. Give me a little credit, will ya?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    7. Re:Phone Firewall by tomhudson · · Score: 2
      All phone systems "eat" the first ring in a sense. It rings on your side, it then rings on their side, alternating back and forth.

      Try calling yourself on from one line to another to see the effect. You hear the phone ring in your earpiece, but the phone on the desk is silent - then it rings, but you don't hear enything in your earpiece.

  13. How much longer until 1-900? by magicsquid · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How much longer will it be before unscrupulous 900 number operators enlist people to alter this virus to make it dial their numbers? Given that it takes a month to get a phone bill, the culprits can close up shop and move on long before anyone even realizes there is a probem...

    --


    "Chances of RHIC-induced Armageddon are exceedingly rare, but... you never know." - MIT Physicist Bob Jaffe
    1. Re:How much longer until 1-900? by t0qer · · Score: 2

      Someone Mod the parent up! Squid that has to be about the most insightful thing i've read so far on this thread.

      --toq

    2. Re:How much longer until 1-900? by AnalogBoy · · Score: 2

      Great.. What if the 911 author reads slashdot. DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE DONE! GRR! :)

      On a side note, my modem init string was always ATH0M0.

    3. Re:How much longer until 1-900? by brain-in-a-box · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In Germany there is already a huge problem with dialer programs which try to sneak themselves into your system and replace your default dial-up connection with an expensive 0198 etc numbers. There were programs which caused 200 Euro to be charged per dial-in.
      However these program come as some kind of trojan, usually springing up some "accept box" (only on install). However, these boxes often don't say that an expensive connection will be created - sometimes they even claim to be a "screensaver update"

      --
      You are the dot in slashdot !
    4. Re:How much longer until 1-900? by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 3, Informative
      "How much longer will it be before unscrupulous 900 number operators enlist people to alter this virus to make it dial their numbers? Given that it takes a month to get a phone bill, the culprits can close up shop and move on long before anyone even realizes there is a probem..."

      It's been done. I remember reading in the newspapers about pr0n sites that asked you to download their special pr0n viewer program. The thing is, this viewer program actually did view the adult content. It also turned off your modem's speaker and dialed some pay-per-minute line in Russia. But since you were looking at pr0n, you would probably spend quite a while racking up charges without noticing anything was amiss until your next phone bill.

  14. Ahh, yet another buggy virus. by joto · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why can't the fucking virus writers understand that they need to be portable across platforms? It seems most virus writers these days are targetting Microsoft products without so much as a thought about portability. What about users running MacOS, Linux, Solaris, *BSD or any other operating system? What about users who don't even have a modem? And what about users in other countries where the emergency number is different from that in the US? This virus is buggy as hell, I wouldn't want it if my life depended on it! (pun intended).

  15. Interm Solution by t0qer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    M$ sends an automated voice message out to all their subscibers. Either that or make all the access numbers just play this instead of sending any actual data.

    "Services will not be availiable today because of a virus that affects webtv users. The virus takes control of the webTV modem and causes it to dial 911. Please unplug your webtv unit from the phone line until we can fix the problem. Please call 555-1212 if you suspect your webtv has been affected"

    Clean up your mail servers. Install something to filter out the virus and any varients. Even the least tech savvy people will understand "It dials 911" and "Unplug your webtv"

    Just some advice.

    --toq

    1. Re:Interm Solution by quantaman · · Score: 2

      Why would M$ do this?

      It doesn't make them any money. Right now many WebTV users probably don't consider WebTV to be a computer. Remember, computers are complex, buggy, get hacked, and get viruses therefore if WebTV is suseptible to viruses it is a computer. By sending out an alert to all their subscribers they will alert everybody to the fact that WebTV is a type of computer and will lower its popularity because of that. That being said it is an interesting test to see if M$ will stand to possibly lose a little PR in order to stop a life saving service from being tied up.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    2. Re:Interm Solution by t0qer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was for 7 years, the fact that lusers would never heed my warings, read the documentation, or flat out needed things repeated to them 20 times in a row made me decide to quit being the McDonalds coke and a smile "Hi How may I fix your computer today?"

      Near my 7th year, I became frustrated, started telling people how stupid I thought they were to their face (Usually after the 8th time of explaining something) And generally degraded into the self absorbed irritating prick that I am today.

      2 years later i'm still recovering. Where I used to fix my friends and families computers for free I now charge the shit outta them till they don't wanna come back. Everytime the phone rings my hair still stands up on end because i'm afraid of yet another person saying, "Hey toq just wanted to ask you a quick question!" No it's never a quick question, it's a gateway into a line of questioning not even the worse murderer would be subjected to in a police interregation.

      And you dare say was I ever a sysadmin, jeesh. I'd bet money I could w00p your arse in a contest of skills any day of the week. Trust me kid, you just haven't burned out yet, but you will. And when you do, that's where open source with the lack of stupid people and politics will be waiting.

      --toq

    3. Re:Interm Solution by t0qer · · Score: 2

      It doesn't make them any money.

      It's one less day they need phone support.
      It's one less day they have to provide service.
      It's one less day they have to do anything but have their top techs in the office fixing the problem (Who are probably in the office all the time anyways)
      On top of all the less they have to provide for a day, they're still charging the customers money. So they don't really lose anything at all by doing this, they gain alot.

      Add that all up, and I see black for that day.

    4. Re:Interm Solution by quantaman · · Score: 2

      What about the droves of concerned users who call up to see if they have the virus or find out more about the virus,this will be MANY MANY more callers and a lot more phone support than if they said nothing. Also what about the bad reviews they get by those customers who tell their friends who are thinking of buying one how they almost got a really bad virus and they had to go through this inconvenience of calling to make sure they weren't infected (not to mention annoyingly busy tech support lines)? Does it really cost less to put out the warning?

      No, no, unless the virus spreads and becomes really big (unlikely considering the small number of suseptible machines) and M$ gets totally trashed by the media for doing nothing (ABC wasn't critical of M$ at all) they DO lose much more money than if they announce to all the users.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    5. Re:Interm Solution by M-G · · Score: 2

      Except for the fact that they're:

      Still paying rent.
      Still paying employees.
      Still paying for electricity.
      Still paying for their 'net connection.
      Still paying depreciation on equipment.

      IOW, all their fixed costs are still there. Any savings from shutting down for a day would be minimal. I'm not saying they shouldn't just shut down until they have a fix, but they sure won't be saving any money by not offering service.

    6. Re:Interm Solution by t0qer · · Score: 2

      The mail servers were cleaned up late last week and all new incoming mail is filtered for the hack.

      Wow MS had a handle on it BEFORE slash ran the story.. WOW M$ CAN GO BACKWARDS IN SLASHDOT TIME!

      1.21 jigawatts marty!!!
      vrrooooOOOOM *BOOM*
      or something like that.

  16. Can we really call this a virus? by MadFarmAnimalz · · Score: 2

    There's an argument to be made that having a Microsoft product in your living room could be termed an emergency.

    I personally find this alleged virus' behaviour entirely appropriate.

    It's just trying to help.

    Can't you see that?

    --
    Blearf. Blearf, I say.
  17. Nice troll. by dave-fu · · Score: 2, Informative

    In order to be able to pass Hayes commands to the modem, you first have to establish a terminal session to the modem itself; if you can do this, it's already game over.
    Otherwise, knowing about ATH0, ATA, ATDT and ATM0 (well, the last is useful if you're dialing late at night and don't want to wake others) isn't so much l33t as having paged through the manual while waiting to get an open line.
    OTOH, figuring out that you can down a BBS you don't like by requesting a file named COM1:? That's getting warmer...

    --
    Easy does it!
    This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
    1. Re:Nice troll. by kwishot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're dumb.

      If you translate the commands into hex and send it as a ping it works:
      ping -p 2b2b2b415448300d -c 5 xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx

      By the way, 2b2b2b415448300d = +++ATH0
      The modem receives the command and doesn't even pass it up to the "higher" networking layers so it's virtually untraceable, as well.

    2. Re:Nice troll. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Informative
      I could be wrong, but I don't think that's how it works. I thought the trick was to get the 'target' to _send_ the +++ATH0, not just recv it.

      If I read this right:

      You send him a ping (ICMP echo request) with the modem command in the payload.

      He sends you a ping response (ICMP echo reply) with that same modem command in the reply's payload. He just sent it to the modem.

      If he's on a PPP/slip link it looks to the modem like a command embedded in the stream.

      If the modem doesn't correctly ignore commands where there isn't a minimum half-second pause (with no transitions whatsoever - even start/stop bits) between the +++ and the ATH, you got him.

      Of course if YOU'RE on PPP/slip on a serial link you have to be careful that YOUR modem doesn't hang up and dial 911, too. B-)

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    3. Re:Nice troll. by dissy · · Score: 2

      You are correct, the system needs to reply with that, so the ping is processed by the normal IP stack and echoed back. The reply is what causes the disconnect.

      Ping is just one method to do it. If the remote machine has any services running like FTP or sendmail or whatnot, you can usually telnet to the service and type (as example)

      USER +++ATH0
      PASS asdf

      Some services end up sending a reply such as
      Bad password for

      Of course almost any protocol using TCP can be effected if it echos any user supplied data back out.

      Fun to embed into a webpage as well, older IE wouldnt take a link provided as is and escape it before requesting that link. (Dont know what other browsers would do this still however)

  18. Why not... by curunir · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...just have the MSNTV units call the 1-800-469-3288 number directly.

    Why don't the people who write viruses ever have a sense of humor?

    --
    "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
  19. Re:Holy shit by unicron · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yeah, Duke, but what do you do when the problem is bigger than just re-installing Acrobat?

    --
    Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
  20. Re:KARMA... by CodeWheeney · · Score: 2, Funny

    I prefer Karma Escort, thank you very much.

    --
    C8H10N4O2 | Developer > Code
  21. Full service virus by Maniakes · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Part of the purpose of 911 is to report crimes.
    Hacking is a serious crime.

    The virus is just calling 911 to report itself.

    --
    A legparnasom tele van angolnaval.
  22. It would be neat by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 2

    if after it dialed it played popular music using only dial tones.

    Maybe the rolling stones "Start me up"..

  23. How... timely by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This, right about the time ax-Microsoftie security snake oil salesman is harping about the dangers to our infrastructure because of the Internet, and when Microsoft is promoting Palladium as the solution to its MUA scripting bugs.

    Coincidence? Probably. But geez, you can bet they will spin this to their favor. Instead of apologizing for their incompetence, they will use it as evidence of the dangerous new world we live in, and request us to please bend over for all their new security initiatives.

    Our infrastructure is under threat from hacker terrorists! The free world is at stake! Join up at your NET Guard recruiting office now!

    1. Re:How... timely by FreeUser · · Score: 2
      This, right about the time ax-Microsoftie security snake oil salesman is harping about the dangers to our infrastructure [slashdot.org] because of the Internet, and when Microsoft is promoting Palladium [slashdot.org] as the solution to its MUA scripting bugs.

      Coincidence? Probably. But geez, you can bet they will spin this to their favor. Instead of apologizing for their incompetence, they will use it as evidence of the dangerous new world we live in, and request us to please bend over for all their new security initiatives.


      What makes it doubly absurd is that they tell us:
      • We should make our hardware capable of only running Microsoft's incompentently written, buggy, and phenominally insecure software and trust them that blocking every competitor's product from running on our hardware will somehow, magically make their poorly written, unaudited, closed-source (and thus never peer-reviewed) software more secure.
      • If we follow their advice and deploy Palladium, it will become impossible to deploy demonstrably much more secuire products like GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, and OpenBSD.
      This makes almost as much sense as giving unprecendented power to an agency whose negligence allowed 9/11 to occur. Hell, if it worked for the FBI why shouldn't it work for Microsoft? It isn't as if our public officials have demonstrated a shred of intelligence within the last year anyway. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time they did demonstrate a sign of intelligence ...
      --
      The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  24. Homer Jay Could Use This Virus....... by echucker · · Score: 2

    Hello, operator? Give me the number for nine one one!"

    1. Re:Homer Jay Could Use This Virus....... by daeley · · Score: 2

      Chief Wiggum: "I'm sorry, you're reached the wrong number. This is nine one two." :)

      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
  25. Its very simple to do this... by Critical_ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't know the exact in's-and-out's of the webtv e-mail system but back in the BBS days, we used to send each other (amongst friends) DOS TSR's that would be disguised as a trusted executable file for a legit program. The person would run it and hang up their modem used ATH0. And dial out numbers using ATDT. To get rid of it, they would have to reboot using a bootdisk since the TSR would be in their autoexec.bat file. Anyway, the point is that this method of modem-"hacking" is very easy to do and shouldn't be tough to adapt for the modern day webtv.

    A part of me actually finds the idea of Microsoft being held liable for the 911 calls pretty amusing. But the reality is that it costs money and unfortunately it could cost lives. I hope all of you people make sure to tell your moms/dads/grandparents/spouses/friends/etc. to disconnect their boxes from the phones lines.

  26. Re:Yes, it could. by t0qer · · Score: 2

    Did you even bother to read what I just said? Do I have to post links for you to read? (why bother, you didn't read my comment)

    #1. Just a few days ago on /. there was an article about a root apache exploit.
    #2. It doesn't matter HOW it gets there, what matters is that it does, be it mail client exploit or service exploit.
    #3. Your comment sounds along the lines of "LUNIX IS INVINCABLE!" Which it can be, unless there is a root exploit like the one I described above. This was very heavily discussed on slashdot about a week ago.

    You can't blame MS for making a product with holes, it's their culture.

  27. Reminds me of a modem story... by writermike · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Back in the days of 2400bps, when modems touted features like "auto-dial," every night when one of my friends made his BBS rounds, the cops would show up at his house.

    This went on for days. And no one really put it together until, one night, while listening to the dial-tones coming out the speak of his Avatar 2400 modem, he noticed that anytime the modem attempted to dial an 8, nothing would come out.

    And one of the BBSs he dialed started thus:
    (8)91-1xxx

    --
    If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
    1. Re:Reminds me of a modem story... by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* every night when one of my friends made his BBS rounds, the cops would show up at his house. [when accidental 911] *)

      Every night? You mean they *kept* showing up week after week and did not do anything, such as shut it down or have FBI agents come in or something?

      Tolerant cops you have in that town.

  28. Wouldn't work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    For one thing, I doubt the operators get paid until the customer pays the phone company. In most states, the phone company cannot disconnect your service if you refuse to pay for calls to 900 numbers. The worst they can do is block your access to those numbers in the future...which might be a good thing in this case!

    Second, once the complaints came in, the phone company would quickly cease all payments to the operator, and turn their info over to the district attorney's office for prosecution.

  29. IRC by owenc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I had a ctcp command do that on undernet once. Like[1] an idiot, I ran it, and nothing seemed to happen. It had however hung up the modem and dialled 911. I tried it four times. I forgot about it and carried on for about 15 minutes. Then at midnight I heard a knock on the door. I thought maybe a neighbor had some sort of an emergency or something. It was the police. He asked if everything was ok, but wouldn't leave until he saw my mother to make sure I didn't hack them up or something. It was kind of hard to explain that someone on undernet had sent me this command and said that it actually done something else. I wish I could say I learned something from that experience...

    [1] maybe "like" is not the best word

    1. Re:IRC by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2
      I had a ctcp command do that on undernet once. Like[1] an idiot, I ran it,
      ...
      It was the police.
      ...
      I wish I could say I learned something from that experience...
      Straight from the mouth of a babe. How cute.
  30. WTF?!? by quantaman · · Score: 2

    From the article,
    This virus only affects Microsoft WebTV/MSNTV units. Windows PCs, Macs, Unix, and Linux machines are unaffected.

    Huh!? I thought viruses affected EVERY computer and email client the same! I mean they've never suggested anything different on the news before this?!? Do you mean that when checking my email on Red Hat using Pine I won't get klez or code red???

    --
    I stole this Sig
    1. Re:WTF?!? by Ryan_Terry · · Score: 2

      I think they mean to say that the virus is only able to force WebTV boxen to disconnect and dial the number. The malicious code doesn't have the same effect on a windows box.

      --
      MessEdUp
      .sig
      #/var/www/v
  31. Well, it's a good thing by ZaMoose · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's great that the virus dials 911. I mean, my local Stonecutter lodgemaster told me only suckers dial 911.

    The real emergency number is 912.

    *grin*

    --
    I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
    1. Re:Well, it's a good thing by jelle · · Score: 2

      Hihi,

      You've been watching too much The simpsons shows.

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
  32. Re:Yes, it could. by CoolVibe · · Score: 2
    1) It's only a root exploit if Apache is running as root. Neither I nor anyone I know runs Apache as root. I think the default is "nobody". "nobody" can't install a root kit. So it was only a root exploit if somone made apache run as root on purpose?

    Actually, apache _does_ run as root in the beginning to seize a priviledged port. But having a scriptkiddie romping around on your box as 'nobody' is just as bad. Did you know that local root exploits are more prevalent than remote root ones?

  33. Palladium by mizhi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So this is the company we're supposed to trust to make the internet more secure with Palladium?

    --
    Humorless sig goes here.
  34. this is kind of sad by Edmund+Blackadder · · Score: 2

    I dont know how web tv works, but i do know that on a webtv the maker has a complete control over the software and the hardware that runs on it.

    And it still has viruses.

  35. Joint and Several Liability by overshoot · · Score: 2
    PI lawyers won't waste time going after Aunt Martha; if any ambulances arrive late they're going for the deep pockets of the company which sold the boxen, runs the servers, wrote the software, and ignored seven years of warnings about exploits waiting to happen.

    What's more, they're going to win. A jury will take nanoseconds to decide between a grieving family and a convicted abusive monopolist sitting on $40 billion in liquid assets.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  36. Bug in MSNTV??? by guttentag · · Score: 2
    WebTV (Now branded as MSNTV)
    If this affects all of MSNTV, it could be a bigger problem than we thought. Just think of all the unsuspecting MSNBC viewers who didn't even know their TV had a modem! We should petition our cable providers to block MSNBC until this is fixed.
  37. My only hope... by erat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...is that the loser who made this all happen has a heartattack and can't get through to 911 emergency services because his/her own virus/hack/whatever is tying up the line.

    Sometimes these pranks go too far.

  38. The Big Question... by sterno · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the person who wrote this virus has caused 911 to be tied up, and this has possibly caused somebody to die, would they be prosecutable under the new anti-hacker law that Congress put together?

    --
    This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
  39. National Enquirer: WebTV Saves Grandma by N8F8 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Gotta be at least one story like this.

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
    1. Re:National Enquirer: WebTV Saves Grandma by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      (* National Enquirer: WebTV Saves Grandma. Gotta be at least one story like this. *)

      An almost close match:

      There was a slashdot story about a month ago in which a hiker used up his cell-phone account and then got lost in some cold mountains. He was saved by a telemarketer calling to ask if we wanted to buy more phone minutes. (911 or its equiv was appearently not working.)

  40. Re:You missed the important bit... by tomhudson · · Score: 2
    Yet...

    But we're sure Micro$oft is working hard to fix that.

  41. Perfect timing by guttentag · · Score: 2, Redundant
    This was posted just seven hours after a story about ex-Microsoft security chief Howard Schmidt warning that the Internet could facilitate the collapse of our infrastructure.

    A lot of people have commented that Schmidt is full of... well, Schmidt, because anything critical should not be hooked up to the Internet. But here's an example of one way the ubiquity of Internet-connected computers could disrupt things.

    Hypothetical scenario:

    A rogue group hiding out in the tribal areas of Pakistan writes this virus (or whatever it's officially classified as), begins sending it to WebTV random *@WebTV.net addresses and causes them to flood 911 (a critical part of our emergency response infrastructure) with false calls. While the officials are busy trying to sort the WebTV-callers from the real emergencies, a group like Al Qaeda could carry out an attack and we would be ill-equipped to respond appropriately.

    Whether this "virus" was planted by terrorists is not at issue, though. Perhaps we should pay more attention to Schmidt -- after all, who would know more about the insecurity of 95% of US PCs than an ex-MS security chief. We need to start looking at how our non-Internet-connected infrastructure might be indirectly vulnerable to Internet-based attacks.

  42. Clarification by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2

    In order to be able to pass Hayes commands to the modem, you first have to establish a terminal session to the modem itself

    You are correct.

    The problem is that normally "+++" drops the modem into terminal mode.

    To keep this from being a problem (whereyou actually want to send "+++") is that modems are *supposed* to have a guard time where "+++" must not be followed by any data for a certain period of time. If any data comes in, they do not drop into terminal mode. This time is called the guard time. The guard time can be set to zero in software, however (if your dialup software is being braindead or is misconfigured), and a few modems (ones that Apple shipped) had a zero guard time by default. So all you had to do was get the remote computer to send *any* data containing +++AT(a Hayes command). This could be accomplished by sending an ICMP echo (ping) packet and waiting for the pong to hit the modem.

    I thought this was fixed for just about everyone, but evidently the WebTV guys still have a zero guard time.

    This "50% vulnerable" number is absolutely ludicrous. I've had a 33.6 and three 56k modems, and none of them have had a zero guard time by default or set to zero by the two Linux dialers, the two MacOS dialers, or the Windows NT dialer that I've used. I'd say that *maybe* .1% of modem users on the Internet are vulnerable, which is probably way too high. If you did have a system set up like this, you'd experience frequent hangups during normal operation.

    Setting the guard time to 255 is probably overkill...I can't see it being a problem at much of anything but zero.

    1. Re:Clarification by adolf · · Score: 2

      Back In The Day, I made an informal study of this topic, on IRC (of course).

      I chatted with prospective participants, gathered as much information from them about their modem as possible, asked if it were OK if they might drop carrier, and sent three magical ICMPs their way, one second apart. I logged the data in a text file, which I don't seem to be able to find just now.

      Something like 80% were vulnerable. I was amazed. I gave my SupraFAXModem 288i a big fat kiss for being such a good sport about it all.

      Hacks like this have existed for a -long- time. I remember helping sysops in 1991 to defend against kids who would dial up BBSs, and use the login prompt's echo to drop the board's modem to command mode, whereupon they'd leave it in a strange state and things wouldn't work until the sysop reset the modem.

      Fun stuff. It wasn't until some years later that I learned about the Hayes patent on having a silence period between +++ and command mode.

  43. Here's where a life sentence should apply... by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2

    Interesting that this virus comes out so soon after the House OKs Life Sentences For Hackers. If the 911 lines get tied up, and someone dies as a result, can the virus writer be charged with murder?

    "If a hack causes death the hacker can never be the only one to blame IMHO." - AVee

    I guess in this case it could, unless you want to blame the user for hooking his computer up to a phone line.

  44. It's not ATH0 by marxmarv · · Score: 2
    if it causes the box to disconnect, reboot and dial a new number. More likely, there's some "extended" tags in an HTML mail that update the 1-800 number (probably in EEPROM) that the boxes call to get your local dialup numbers, then makes the box forget the cached local dialup numbers and resets the box. Not very tricky if you happen to know the tags. Unfortunately I've lost touch with most of my internal contacts so I have no idea whether my knowledge is out of date or not.

    Disclaimer: this is Slashdot, so everyone has to shoot their mouths off without knowing what they're talking about, right?

    -jhp

    --
    /. -- the Free Republic of technology.
  45. recursive virus? by Tablizer · · Score: 2


    One of these days a virus will dial up the Virus Hotline and report itself.

  46. And this is on a closed system by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This demonstrates the total failure of Microsoft's "authorized code" approach to security. WebTV is a completely closed system; it is designed to run only the code it comes with. Yet it has been cracked. None of the DRM-type "security" stuff Microsoft has been talking about would have prevented this.

    Since this apparently affects pre-Microsoft WebTV boxes, though, it may be in code from the original WebTV people in Palo Alto. But that was a long time ago. Microsoft owns it now, and has to take the blame.

    Is it actually running unauthorized code, or does the exploit just change what it dials?

  47. Re:The Future: Palladium by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    "Sorry: you have not purchased a certificate for Emergancy Services. Call cancelled."

  48. Re:And di you read mine? by t0qer · · Score: 2

    Very easy to make such broad categorizations.

    How many unknown exploits exist? Can you answer that? Because if I were a malicious hacker I wouldn't tell the likes of you. I wouldn't post it to security focus. I would STFU keep my lips sealed. Keep it in my pocket.

    There is no way of accounting for the unnacountable. How long did the apache problem really exist before it was discovered? I can't answer that, c'mon, try and give me an answer. What's that? can't answer that? Try giving me an estimate. Can't estimate it? Well neither can I.

    Only way to truly stay secure from a network is to not be connected to one at all.

  49. Choose bitterness. by Inoshiro · · Score: 2

    Choose using computers.

    Choose hanging out on Slashdot.

    Choose knowing enough about the patent system to make a lawyer blush.

    Choose not having a girlfriend.

    Choose your hand every night.

    Choose Linux, and its politics.

    Choose videogames, LAN parties, XL shirts, and big screen TVs.

    Choose a career in the IT field.

    Choose bitterness.

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
  50. Or another :) by tcc · · Score: 2

    Talk about efficient AI...Microsoft probably didn't look at that code after stealing it, heh... "hello 911, this is the Box reporting Microsoft frauded my owner for selling him overpriced underfeatured and buggy hardware, thank you."

    --
    --- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
  51. In case you weren't listening.. by snoozebutton · · Score: 2, Informative

    Thought this was appropriate..

    "I've heard WinXP removed the cmd/command prompt."

    No, Microsoft didn't remove the CMD.EXE or COMMAND.COM prompt from Windows XP. But Windows XP has reduced functionality, in many ways, not just in the command line. The command line is a big embarrassment because of its limited capabilities, but at least in Win 95 it worked. With every version since then it has worked less well. (There are two kinds of command prompt, and, according to Microsoft employees, the differences between them are not documented.)

    The command line prompt sometimes begins to display short file names. Microsoft employees say that Microsoft has no fix, although someone not connected with Microsoft did make a work-around.

    Cutting and pasting into a command line program often puts successive extra spaces before each line. Microsoft employees say that there is no plan to fix this.

    The fast paste mode that is in Windows 98 is gone in Windows XP. Microsoft employees say there is no plan to fix this.

    When using the command line interface, Windows XP doesn't always update the time. After several hours, the time reported to command line programs can be several hours in error.

    There is a DOS program called START.EXE that can be used to start other programs. But it does operate the same way as in other versions of Windows. It starts a program, but cannot be made to return control to the command line program as previous versions did. There is no technical reason for this; it is just one of the shortcomings that are allowed to exist.

    People often say that DOS has gone away. But Microsoft still calls the command line interface DOS, and in Windows XP Microsoft has added new programs for configuring the OS that work only under DOS.

    Sometimes when you press a key while using Windows XP, it is seconds until there is any response. Apparently there is something wrong with the CPU scheduler in XP, because there are a lot of complaints about this in the forums and MS people have said that they are working on it. On one particular fresh installation of XP, on an Intel motherboard with either a Matrox G550 or an ATI Radeon video adapter, it requires 18 seconds to display a directory listing of 94 items. This is apparently related to a bug in the video software, not the adapter drivers.

    Something is wrong with the Alt-Tab display of running programs under Windows XP. If there are a lot of programs, not all of them are displayed. The order jumps around in a seemingly random way.

    Although articles often say negative things about Microsoft, I've never seen an article that fully documents how bad the situation really is. Microsoft's management is so bad that the company has become self-destructive. For example, Windows XP is spyware. Here is a list of ways Windows XP connects to Microsoft's servers:

    1. Application Layer Gateway Service (Requires server rights.)
    2. Fax Service
    3. File Signature Verification
    4. Generic Host Process for Win32 Services (Requires server rights.)
    5. Microsoft Application Error Reporting
    6. Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer
    7. Microsoft Direct Play Voice Test
    8. Microsoft Help and Support Center
    9. Microsoft Help Center Hosting Server (Wants server rights.)
    10. Microsoft Management Console
    11. Microsoft Media Player (tells Microsoft the music you like)
    12. Microsoft Network Availability Test
    13. Microsoft Volume Shadow Copy Service
    14. MS DTC Console program
    15. Run DLL as an app
    16. Services and Controller app
    17. Time Service, sets the time on your computer from Microsoft's computer.
    18. Microsoft Office keeps a number in each file you create that identifies your computer. Microsoft has never said why.
    19. Microsoft mouse software has reduced functionality until you let it connect to Microsoft computers.

    These are just the ones I know. There may be others.

    So, if you use Windows XP, your computer is dependent on Microsoft computers. That's bad, not only because you lose control over your possession, but because Microsoft produces buggy software and doesn't patch bugs quickly. For example, as of July 7, 2002, there are 18 unpatched security holes in Microsoft Internet Explorer. This is a terrible record for a company that has $40 billion in the bank. Obviously, with that kind of money, Microsoft could fix the bugs if it wanted to fix them. Since the bugs are very public and Microsoft has the money, it seems reasonable to suppose that top management at Microsoft has deliberately decided that the bugs should remain, at least for now.

    It seems possible that there is a connection between all the bugs and the U.S. government's friendly treatment of Microsoft's law-breaking . The U.S. government's CIA and FBI and NSA departments spy on the entire world, and unpatched vulnerabilities in Microsoft software help spies.

    Windows XP, and all current Windows operating systems, have a file called the registry in which configuration information is written. If this one (large, often fragmented) file becomes corrupted, the only way of recovering may be to re-format the hard drive, re-install the operating system, and then re-install and re-configure all the applications. The registry file is a single, very vulnerable, point of failure. Microsoft apparently designed it this way to provide copy protection. Since most entries in the registry are poorly documented or not documented, the registry effectively prevents control by the user.

    Note that Microsoft does not support making functional complete backups under Windows XP. Look at Microsoft's policy about this: Q314828 Microsoft Policy on Disk Duplication of Windows XP Installation . Only those who work with Microsoft software will understand the true meaning of Microsoft's policy. Since almost all programs use the registry operating system file, if you cannot make a functional copy of the operating system you cannot make a functional copy of all your application installations and configurations. There are other software companies that try to fix this, but they don't work well, and Microsoft can, of course, break their implementations, as they have often done with other kinds of competitors.

    Because the configuration information for the motherboard and the configuration information for the are mixed together in the registry file, the registry tends to prevent you from moving a hard drive to a computer with a different motherboard. That's another implication of the above Microsoft policy. So, if you have a motherboard failure, and a good complete backup, you may not be able to recover unless you have a spare computer with the same motherboard.

    Note that Windows XP Professional can support only ten simultaneous incoming network connections. If you want more than that, you must use Windows 2000 server, and pay much, much more. (There is no Windows XP server yet.) Many businesses have very light network traffic; they just move files from staff member to staff member; they really don't need a dedicated server computer. The staff computers could easily handle the load except for this artificial limitation.

    Apparently because the Windows XP GUI comes from Windows 98, Windows XP has the same problem with desktop icons that Windows 98 has. The icons sometimes flicker. Sometimes they move themselves around, particularly after the user switches monitor resolutions. Also, sometimes the taskbar settings un-configure themselves, as they do in Windows 98.

    Only technically knowledgeable people know how to avoid signing up for a Microsoft Passport account during initial use of Windows XP. The name Passport gives an indication of Microsoft's thinking. A passport is a document issued by a sovereign nation. Without it, the nation's citizens cannot travel, and, if they leave, won't be allowed back in their own country. In Microsoft's corporate thinking, the company seems to be moving in the direction of believing that they own the user's computer. Most people are both honest and intimidated. Apparently about 95% do whatever they are asked on the screen. They give their personal information to Microsoft. They don't realize that, if they feel forced to get a Passport account, they should enter almost completely fictitious information, since the real question is not "What is your name and address", but "Can we invade your privacy". The honest answer to this is "No, you cannot invade my privacy", and the only effective way to communicate that is to give completely fictitious information. Since it is the educated people who have computers, Microsoft is building a database of the personal lives of educated people. Microsoft knows when they connect and from what IP address (which tends to show the area), what kind of help they ask, and information about what they are doing with their computers, including what music they like. It is not known, and there is no way to know, how much Microsoft or other organizations make use of this information, or their plans for future use.

    Not only has Windows XP definitely gone further in the direction of allowing the user less control over his or her own machine, but with Palladium, Microsoft apparently intends to finish the job: Microsoft will have ultimate control over the user's computer and therefore all his or her data. Even now, under Windows XP, a recent security patch requires that the user agree to a contract that gives Microsoft administrator privileges over the user's computer . The contract says that if a user wants to patch his or her system against a bug which would allow an attack over the Internet, he or she must give Microsoft legal control over the computer. See this article also: Microsoft's Digital Rights Management-- A Little Deeper . You may need to be a lawyer to take apart the crucial sentence. "These security related updates may disable your ability to copy and/or play Secure Content and [my emphasis] use other software on your computer" legally includes this meaning: "These updates may disable your ability to use other software on your computer." Note that the term "security related updates" is meaningless to the user because the updates have no relation to user security. So, the sentence effectively means that Microsoft can control the user's computer without notice and whenever it wants. That kind of sentence is known in psychology as "testing the limits". If there is no strong public complaint about this, expect to see more and stronger language like this.

    This Register article shows the direction Microsoft is going: MS Palladium protects IT vendors, not you . Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and Microsoft is well down that road. See this ZDNet article, also: MS: Why we can't trust your 'trustworthy' OS .

    Microsoft's self-destructiveness does not mean that the user should be self-destructive. There is no need to apologize for using Microsoft software. The correct solution to abuse is persuading the abuser to stop being abusive. Once I posted to a Slashdot story a link to an article on a web site of mine. By far the majority of visitors from the Slashdot story used Microsoft operating systems. Rather than feel embarrassed because Microsoft is abusive, action needs to be taken to prevent the abuse. If you are against Microsoft abuse, you are not against Microsoft; you are more pro-Microsoft than Bill Gates.

    These Microsoft policies mean that any government which wants to be independent of the United States government, and any government which represents itself as controlled by the people, cannot use Microsoft operating systems, or other Microsoft proprietary systems.

  52. A greengrocing we shall go by mccalli · · Score: 2
    Everytime the phone rings my hair still stands up on end because i'm afraid of yet another person saying, "Hey toq just wanted to ask you a quick question!"

    At parties, every so often I say I'm a greengrocer. Trust me - people are much more interested in it than with the answer "I'm in computers", and you also don't risk the dreaded "yeah, I've got a problem with my computer. I just can't get it to...<insert MS Word function here>".

    Cheers,

  53. Why isn't MSNBC reporting? by eples · · Score: 2


    Why isn't MSNBC reporting anything about it? They usually jump at the chance to prove they are unbiased even though (MSNBC is a joint venture between Microsoft and NBC)...

    --
    I'm a 2000 man.
  54. Two Others by virg_mattes · · Score: 2

    There are two others with three digits. 411 is directory assistance. 611 is the number to call for phone system problems (you figure out the logic in that one...).

    So, the creator of this prank could tie up lines that someone needs it for a real, life-threatening emergency, instead of playing a funny prank. I hope they nail his/her ass to the wall.

    Virg

  55. Re:sometimes 911 a toll call even when not a prank by Fishstick · · Score: 2

    In fact, most states have regulations on the books that not only require that 911 services be made free to the caller, but that the service cannot be denied for any reason (ie, past due balance disconnection, etc). Pay phones must allow 911 to be dialed and connected without any coins deposited.

    Only reason I know about this is because I work on a mediation & prepaid billing system for wireless and we had to implement a requirement for a nationwide carrier to specifically allow 911 calls to always go through, regardless of the sub's account status.

    --

    There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
    Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.

  56. Due Diligence by virg_mattes · · Score: 2

    Consider this: this exploit has been around for more than a decade. Also, not all modems are affected by this. Also, it's fairly easy to fix this hole in the modem's init string, so even if you have affected hardware it's a simple fix to disable the escape sequence.

    Now, considering these three points, and most strongly the first, the case can easily be made that due diligence was not used. I have little difficulty believing that somebody working on this project in Redmond ran a BBS at some point in the past (BBS operators know about this because schmucks would knock your board out all the time if you didn't compensate for it). Therefore, it was either willfully ignored for some reason, or nobody tested it who was qualified to test systems that use modems to communicate.

    In either case, they're at fault.

    Virg

  57. Offtopic Name by virg_mattes · · Score: 2

    Sollt Ihre name nicht "gutentag" sein? Was bedeudet "guttentag"?

    Virg

  58. Closed Inforamtion by virg_mattes · · Score: 2

    The article is very short on details, but if it is what it seems to be, it's just an old modem exploit, not hacked code. The idea is to send a ping with "+++ATH0" and then a modem command to dial 911 in the ping data. When the system responds to the ping, it sends back the data (including the escape string). Since the outgoing data goes over a dialup link, the return ping gets handed to the modem, and the modem sees the +++ATH0 in the data stream as an escape sequence/command sequence and responds by doing what it's told (in this case, hanging up and dialing 911).

    It's bad, both to do such a hack (tying up 911 is very bad) and to have a modem that's not init'ed to prevent it, but it's not really a code hack.

    Virg

  59. Re:You're not a self absorbed irritating prick by t0qer · · Score: 2

    More than welcome to use my bytewriter (eeprom burner connect via joystick ports) to copy it :) I'll even give you a eeprom.