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HP: Rival Printers Mean No More HPs Through Dell
blamanj writes: "Dell Computer seems to have pissed off HP, with their intent to sell their own printers. HP will apparently stop supplying printers to Dell, even though the new Dell products are not yet shipping."
Dude, yer goin' to hell!
In a truely competitive market, a company gets nowhere by not selling their product to someone else. If I were an HP stock holder, I'd be pissed.
Burn Hollywood Burn
I hate this sort of thing. Corporations refusing to sell their products as an anti-competitive tactic. It's a textbook microsoft move.
I'm wondering, how common is this outside of the computer industry?
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
You're only giving a long-term leg-up to your competition by allowing them to smoothly and easily transition to their own product line by continuing to sell them yours. You're giving up a short-term gain for a bit of long-term hurt. Exactly what I would have done.
This whole 'coopetition' thing is just like Microsoft tries to get competitors to do. "Let us use your product and embrace it until we're ready to demolish it."
I thought the money was in printer cartridges not the actual printers themselves. Besides, to make money Dell would need to sell their products at retail locations which are already covered pretty well with HPs. They wouldn't be able to make enough money just selling to their own customers.
Even if I was buying a Dell computer, why would I care? What advantage is there to buying a printer from the same place you order your computer from? Has Dell been selling HP printers less than what I could buy from any other mail order outlet? Less than what I could buy the same HP printer from Fry's (or wherever)?
That is because with HP's purchase of Compaq, they are in direct competition with Dell with the PC. Now I wonder who will be next. HP is just shooting itslef on this one. Do they really want Dell to get pissed at them and start making inkjet printers with cheaper ink?
Oh right! Dell's going to make printers. That makes as much sense as HP making computers.
wait a second....
Best Windows Freeware
Carleton S. (Carly) Fiorina is Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Hewlett-Packard. Click the link to tell her what you think.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
With the (somewhat) recent prosecution of Microsoft, I read up (somewhat) on Anti-trust laws, and this seems to be text book. "Hewlett-Packard Co. , the No. 1 printer and personal computer maker" stops selling printers to Dell because of a completely unrelated business venture (Dell making printers), in hopes to keep their 'monopoly' on printers. Could someone explain how this isn't antitrust?
I'm not.
Since when have these companies really cared about their customers, rather than their egos?
Sorry to be so cynical, but this is just all too common and pathetic.
-----rhad
Slashdot needs to interview Natalie Portman.
And in other news, Microsoft refuses to sell Windows to Dell as long as they are selling computers with Linux pre-loaded.
HP, uncreative as always, goodbye!
This seems actually to be a very good prisoner's dilemma-style situation. And in this case, they both chose to screw each other. If you are familiar with prisoner's dilemma, you know that this is the worst possible option.
I think this is very bizarre... especially since it's really Dell that has the advantage since they possess the customer relationships (the most valuable asset). It seems that it would have been better for HP to hold off a bit and use the time to transition Dell's customers away from HP.
I know everyone is saying this is a bad move for HP and it very well may be but I think I see what they are doing. If Dell intends to produce their own printers why would they continue to purchase HP priinters in the future when it obviously will end up being far cheaper for them to manufactor and package their own. HP is trying to cut them off before they can do this and hurt them in computer sales when they won't be able to package anymore HP printers while going on with this. One of two things will happen, either Dell will get suckered into a big fat increase on HP printers or they will have to go with another manufactor. Either way its not that bad for HP because they can focus on supplying other vendors, theirselves included or they will get some additional revenue while hurting Dell. Business as usual.
The article states that printers are sold at a loss and that most consumers prefer to buy their ink cartridges at local retail stores (the profit maker). Because HP has presence in the retail arena this makes sense. However, Dell must believe that customers are willing to purchase supplies online for Dell branded printers, even knowing that most consumers prefer to do retail.
I don't know about everyone else, but I don't buy ink cartridges until I need them and when I do I run down to the store and pick one up because they are so freaking expensive. Unless you are monitoring your ink, you can't predict when you will need to order another one online and wait 3-5 days to get it.
As for HP cutting off sales to Dell? Seems par for the course for a company that hasn't made very many good decisions lately.
Bullpoop. No company, monopoly or not, can be required to do business with anyone. Besides, HP is not a monopoly, so even if there is some bizarro antitrust law I'm unaware of that forces monopolies to sell their products to competitors for resale, it wouldn't apply to HP.
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
Living in the Bay Area, I find the main trouble I see is that any attack on Fiorina's ideas or methods is immediately interpreted in some quarters as an attack against women in important roles (like CEO). Granted, some people do make things a gender issue ("that stupid bitch", etc), but it's frustrating to be grouped in with them when you try to make reasonable points. It's gotten to the point where I group her with politics and religion as things to avoid in friendly conversation.
No matter, though; I've sold my HP stock and I don't work there, so maybe my company will see a rise in business while HP starts to toss theirs. Still, it's always sad to see a company sunk by its PHBs.
PS: I think renaming the Compaq Center the "HP Pavillion" is probably the tackiest thing I've every heard. Fortunately, for the locals who care it'll always be the Shark Tank.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
I don't think HP legally can do it under antimonopoly laws: you can't sell your goods only to selected companies - you MUST sell it to everyone who will pay listed price.
Why don't you just ring up Intel then and see if you can get them to sell you a processor.
>>Dell spokesman Mike Maher said his company would still sell HP branded printers that it purchases through distributors, but expressed dismay at HP's decision. "Frankly we're surprised that a company would make it harder for customers to get their hands on their products," he said.
No, it's not harder to get an HP printer, I can go to any of 1000 stores near me and pick one up quite easily, as can any number of new-computer buying people.
Dell is trying to muscle into HP's area, and this is how HP is responding. I'm not surprised at all...
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
I agree with you! This is one example of why women should NOT be CEO's or in any power postition whatsoever!
You're obviously a troll, but I'm going to play with your argument for a bit.
If this is a good enough reason for women to not be CEOs, then the Enron debacle is an example of why men should not be CEOs. Men are far too greedy and aggressive, too willing to lie and deceive to get their way, and spend too much time sexually harassing their secretaries to get any work done. Thus, since neither men nor women are qualified to be CEOs, I propose we dismantle all corporations until such time as we develop an AI suitable for administering their functions.
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
Everyone knows they make the momey from the cartrages, not the actual units. Kind of like the game console sales model
True, but fewer of their printers in people's homes means fewer cartridges will be needed. They're losing more than the profit directly from the printer.
reason HP is pulling printers from Dell is because that
lovable scamp, the "Dell Guy", reportedly grabbed Carly's
ass at a recent "goodwill" meeting.
Carly was overheard to say "He'll never get his hands
on my toner again!". The Dell Guy responded with "Dude,
what a rude BITCH!"
Can someone without an actual job please find this link?
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
Looks like one bad decision after the next. First that moronic Compaq-HP merger and then this.
Makes sense to me.
Why would Dell want to be dependent on Compaq for its printers?
Why would Compaq want to assist Dell's sales of computer systems by selling them printers.
I expect Compaq-HP would have cut Dell off eventually, or ramped up the printer prices to put them at a competitive disadvantage to Compaq's line and sucked out their market share in the PC business. (If nothing else, continuing the relationship would bring up anti-trust issues eventually.)
So Dell started cutting the apron strings, and Compaq used this as an excuse to do as much damage to them as possible in one hit.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
His name is Stephen, you might wish to use it in your future comments to look like less of an idiot. Also, knowing his name would be a good indicator that you've seen the commercials too many times, thus strengthening your case against him.
Honestly, though, if you're going to campaign against mass annoyance, there are far more deserving targets. You can easily find as many as 40 good candidates in the latest issue of Billboard magazine.
Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
It's (potentially) better than that (for printer buyers and users)..
1. Dell detects that HP/Canon/Epson are keeping margins artificially high on printers. Dell does a gut check to see if they can undercut the BigBoyz in the marketplace. Dell decides they can.
2. HP sees a new competitor with money, knowledge and resources in the PC arena, decides that rather than allow Dell to transition smoothly to offering their Dell-branded printers, "We can offer you a Dell brand printer 25% cheaper than the comparable HP and give you free extended support.", HP decides to deprive Dell of some printer customers.
3. Dell now has to scramble to get their printers to market, maybe they make some "entry mistakes" maybe they don't (i'd bet don't), regardless, now Dell has to explain WHY they can't offer the customer (most esp CORPORATE buyers who have been told EXACTLY what model HP printer to buy) the world's best-selling printers.
4. HP now goes DIRECTLY to the big Dell corporate accoutants and attempts to undercut Dell's nascent printer biz, the most common technique will be reduced prices.
5. Dell responds with further price drops across their new printer line to gain and retain sales.
Should it actually work that way, that just the "Capitialism Classic" approach to business.
The Egyptians did it 4000 years ago.
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
This would be an interesting story purely from a business perspective, but the fact that it's about printers gives it a different spin.
Printer profits also depend on sales of ink, since the printers themselves are often sold at a loss [...]
The lack of true competition specifically in the inkjet / bubblejet market is sickening - there is hardly any other market where producers can get away with the shameless margins seen here. Basically you're paying $50 for a $5 piece of hobbled (i.e., you can't refil it) equipment, over and over again. I would prefer to pay a market price for a printer, if I got to pay a fair price for the cartridges later on. Hopefully a additional big player will even things out a bit.
yes, we have no bananas
This older article at CNet has a quote from HP saying "Dell's business represented an 'insignificant' portion of HP's total printing and imaging business, equal to only a few days' sales per year." For all of the posts saying HP is shooting itself in the foot, or are making a bad decision, ask yourself, what would you do if one of your partners, who sells your products, decided to make their own version of your product and sell that too? HP is making most of their money in the printing industry elsewhere, so why not drop Dell?
HP: Hi, Dell?
Dell: Yes?
HP: This is HP. We're tired of receiving revenue from the printers you sell for us.
Dell: I see.
HP: We're going to stop selling printers through you.
Dell: Well have fun.
> you can't sell your goods only to selected companies - you MUST sell it to everyone who will pay listed price.
Not at all true. You can refuse to sell anything to anyone. Or do you think that arms manufacturers MUST sell guns to terrorists?
Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
With the merger a done deal, HP is reorganizing their divisions, setting new strategies. They probably want to compete more fully with Dell head-to-head in the e-commerce space, and they can't do that if Dell is selling their products.
HP has an established brand of printers, well known, well liked. Dell's printer division is going to have to spend big bucks to get there. Better for HP to yank their printers now and use it as a competitive advantage to sell their own systems, and let Dell fumble around.
HP's printers may be okay (though definitely not the industry's best), but their customer service and many of their products (especially peripherals like CD burners) are so horrendously bad, that my company has also banned all HP products. And by the recent acquisition, we have also cancelled our Compaq contracts as well and are in the process of looking for replacements for our Compaq PC's.
I also had the experience of spending probably a month (plus lots of my own money on their non-toll-free support line) trying to get a CD burner of theirs to work (this was a few years ago) and eventually I was told that they couldn't guarantee it would be compatable with my system since my system was self-built! Huh? I was so mad I literally cracked the phone when I slammed it down. Fortunately Best Buy let me return the product past the 15 day return limit (though only for credit) because the person I spoke to said that they have seen this type of thing with HP peripherals before, too many times to count.
Keep up the good work, HP. Would the last one at HP please turn off the light.
United States > TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 1 > Sec. 13. (e)
It shall be unlawful for any person to discriminate in favor of one purchaser against another purchaser or purchasers of a commodity bought for resale, with or without processing, by contracting to furnish or furnishing, or by contributing to the furnishing of, any services or facilities connected with the processing, handling, sale, or offering for sale of such commodity so purchased upon terms not accorded to all purchasers on proportionally equal terms.
I build my own high-performance workstations and servers, but when I buy computers for work, I always go with Dell.
Why? Because they make a far, far better $500 computer than I can, and when a component needs replacing, I call them up and get a new one in the next morning, no worries.
Why was the parent modded as Funny?
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
As for HP's decision, I can think of lots of reasons for HP to do this:
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
There's a new sign in the window at HP's corporate HQ.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
I have it from a well-placed source in Dell that Lexmark is going to be making the printers that Dell is going to rebrand.
Since I buy all of my x86 servers from Dell and am familiar with their support structure, as are my desktop people, this may be an attractive alternative to HP if the printers are decent. I personally have little experience with Lexmark, tho they do have some nice looking management tools. With Dell's backing I'd be willing to give them a chance. Dell has always given me excellent support. Such as recently offering to take back the Itanium servers that were bought by a group at work and give a full refund due to Itanium being the huge dud that it was.
We recently replaced several of our HP 5si's with HP9000's, and boy are they pieces of shit! We've had nothing but problems with them. And they just feel flimsy as hell when you open them up and futz around with their guts. Guess HP's been doing too much corner-cutting. I regret that we got rid of the 5si's as they are solid printers.
> are any other PC manufacturers going to be willing to purchase/sell Dell printers?
:-))
Probably not - at least, not YET (once upon HP had no reputation in the printer market) - but I doubt that's Dell's intended business model.
I suspect you'll find that it's currently quite rare for Dell to sell an HP printer to someone who hasn't bought a Dell PC. So what Dell are probably going to do is sell Dell printers to people who have bought (or are buying) Dell computers.
> lots of other fast food chains were selling Coca Cola products because selling Pepsi was in essence giving money to their competitor
I don't suppose it could possibly be be Coke tastes better than Pepsi, could it? (And, since this is clearly a personal choice, you're entitled to hold my opinion
Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
Good summation, about the only thing you left out was the implicit threat to other HP customers.
"Don't think that you're so big we won't drop you like a rock."
Apparently HP thinks this is enough of a problem to react harshly now at the first signs of trouble to possibly head off bigger trouble down the road.
=tkk
Bill Gates - Creationist?!?
> User goes to buy a computer, doesn't know printers that well, but has heard of HP being a solid brand of printers. Sees the Dell brand as a "cheesy rip off store brand" and buys the HP... :-)
Tortilla chips and computers are somewhat different (see, I have learnt something after being in software for 20 years
The majority of consumers know much more about tortilla chips than they do about computers. When they set out to buy a computer, they go out to buy a computer - and might even have done some research. But it's the computer they're looking for - the printer is, well, peripheral. So they decide which computer they want and then think "oh yeah, I need something to print out on" - and start asking the seller's advice. If the seller (in this case, Dell), says "buy a Dell printer" then the consumer will think that's a good idea. He'll just assume that a Dell printer will be compatible with a Dell PC, but he might wonder if an HP printer is.
Add to that the fact that I doubt you'll ever be in a "store" where both Dell and HP printers are on offer (Dell continue to do almost all - if not all - their selling direct), so the comparison won't arise.
Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
> This is the LAW.
Can you say which LAW? Or is this just a troll?
Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
> To do anything less would be uneconomic and simply bad business. It would be dam-well unAmerican!
Whilst that's probably true, I suspect you'll find it's the sellers OPTION. I don't know of any state tyrannical enough to COMPELL such a sale (which was what the original post implied)
Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
It's a pity you chose to ignore the salient part of my post and instead chose to call me naive for adding a throw-away line. (There's a reason I added a smiley)
> Brand name and quality becomes a issues that are secondary to price and convenience.
Which is pretty much what I was saying w.r.t. printers and branding. I don't really want to go so far off-topic as to debate the soft drink choices of fast food outlets.
Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.
By telling the world that PA-RISC was going to be phased out, HP killed any chance of growth in the high-end business. No customer with any sense would believe that a transition from PA-RISC to Itanium would not be a monumental upheaval. And if a painful transition was a certainty, why not bite the bullet and go with either Sun or IBM? The decision could not have come at a worse time with the last boom for a while in business computing just about to start.
With growth flat in what should have been a boom time, HP desperately entered the lower margin consumer PC business in order to generate more cash flow, any kind of cash flow. Unfortunately HP entered the business just as it was about to crash in turn. What was supposed to at least generate some revenue now has the prospect of unending losses.
Anyone can see that the sensible approach for HP would be to save the last of the company's crown jewels, the printer business, by simply exiting the consumer and small business PC markets, both HP and Compaq brands. This would have eliminated competing head-to-head with Dell and probably avoided provoking Dell into trying to offer Dell's own brand of printers. The only problem would have been figuring out what was left for the company to do in the computing industry. Where can HP generate profit if on the high-end the product line is dependent on the Itanium processor, especially if Intel is now selling to anyone not just the processor but also the guts of entire systems? What exactly does HP own that is unique in the computing industry? Where's the beef?
Perhaps the decline was inevitable once HP ceased to be a company of engineers who got things done. The company had reached the limits of organization. To have preserved the "HP Way" the company by the 1980s would have had to have morphed into a high-tech holding company whose "business" would have been using connections to Stanford and Berkeley to finance upstarts such as Steven Wozniak.
Cutting off Dell will make sure they go elsewhere (lexmark, canon) if their own brand fails, and they have to buy from another printer manufacurer again. It's all part of Carly "The Hatchet" Fiorina's plan to destroy HP. She is an IBM mole!
The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
except HP employees...
HP makes crap except for there high end Unix systems. An HP PC is nearly the worst, low end components, allowing no upgrade. HP printers USED to be decent, but they are now cheap plastic crap that breaks if you look at meanly. Lexmark printers blow away anything HP has put out in a long while, and there are several lines better than that...The ones I feel sorry for are the old compaq support folks, who now get to service and support the wonder HP desktop...arghhh that would be enough to make me go look for another job.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
- Dell spokesman Mike Maher said his company would still sell HP branded printers that it purchases through distributors
Just in case you didnt read the article, and believed the headline.Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
So HP capitalizes on this and will hurt Dell in the short-term but not supplying Dell with HP's while Dell waits for its own brand to be ready.
This really is just capitalism at work. Like their printers or not, offering HP's line helps Dell sell more boxes and helped HP. Now Dell is in direct competition with HP, would you want to help out your comptetitor? Hell, no.
Dell and the other MS pushing shops need to add value wherever they can to the products that they sell yet don't have any control over. If I'm looking for a new Windoze box with an HP printer and I can get it from company X or company Y but X only offers X's own printer, I'll just go to Y and get my bundled printer. And I generalize with company X and Y b/c that's really all Dell, Compaq, and Gateway, etc, are in the PC business.
While Dell's lame commercials may have driven business from all the moron's who somehow think a Dell is better than a Gateway or any other brand, what it really comes down to is: "Dude, you got a Windoze box." Period.
Eh.... more competition is always beneficial to the consumer, if nothing else. Therefore, sure - I encourage Dell to go for it.
Honestly though, I don't forsee Dell really building their own printer, the way they do their desktop PCs. I have a strong suspicion they're just going to re-label printers sold by another manufacturer. (Lexmark's failure to comment at all on the situation makes one wonder if they were at least approached by Dell about supplying printers for them.)
In fact, this is probably the main reason HP was so angered by the move. They probably realize that it's a thinly veiled way of Dell telling them "We'd rather sell your competition's product as our primary printer than keep offering yours." (Maybe they already tried to get HP to allow them to put Dell labeling on their printers, and HP refused?)
You know, I do have to admit, Oki has been putting out some really respectable printers for ages now - and yet they never seem to make the list when people talk about their "favorite printer brands".
Maybe they just never did the advertising push of the other brands? I dunno.... But I remember them having one of the really early personal laser printers on the market, back when I paid nearly $1000 for a Panasonic KXP-4410 laser. The Oki was cheaper, but I bet on Panasonic having the superior product. Seems I probably bet wrong - as the thing had constant paper jam issues, really slow printing, and a tendency to have their fusers die unexpectedly.
They were always selling dot-matrix printers in the consumer computer mags, long before that.
Many Oki 24-pin dot-matrix printers get use and abuse every day in manufacturing shop-floor and retail environments, and they work like a charm.
I guess they never really got into the inkjet market though... As I finish this message, I think maybe that's the biggest reason they remain a relatively obscure brand today.
Printers for 99% of all applications are made by HP. Unless Dell printers are rebranded Canons there is no earthly reason to buy them. Where will you get supplies, how long will they honor warranties? Printers are mechanical devices and they break and wear out.
Who's gonna march into their own personal Viet Nam for driver development and support? Even Lexmark can't get this right and that's all they do.
There are plenty of other printer companies to make up for that: Lexmark, Epson, other Japanese ones, ...
I agree with what you said.
The big problem is that if you buy a Dell printer where are you going to get replacement consumables? You can complain about the high price of Canon, Epson, HP and Lexmark ink cartridges but at least you can get them from multiple sources. This may not be true for Dell's new line of printers.
I propose we dismantle all corporations until such time as we develop an AI suitable for administering their functions.
Judging by the behavior of my Win2k machine lately, I don't think AI's could be trusted either. Why not use some hot latin shemales? I get email from those folks all the time. They're VERY hard working. And willing to do what it takes to get the job done.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
(Steve, the Dell guy) "Duuuude, you're getting a Dell! But you're _not_ getting an HP printer........"
(Nelson steps in for a cameo) "Ha ha!"
The next step, I suppose, is that Dell printers will only work with Dell ink cartridges, and a DRM crypto scheme will enforce this.
great to here, now I can stop selling stuff to minorities!
If I have a legal gun shop, and a manufacture refuses to sell me inventory, but does so for my competitor, the manufacure will get into trouble.
In short, the laws that govern how manufature and large corpration are different and more complex then the laws that tell the local convience store what they can do.
These laws are so complex, that 2 experts probably couldn't agree on many things.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
(mmph, snerk) Bwaaahahahahaaha.
Considering their solution for *any* problem seems to be a factory restore. Printer won't work: restore.
Software option can't be found: restore. Computer is on fire: Restore. Oye.
If Dell's printers turn out to be as good as their current support, this outta be fun. (Lexmarks? Oh, god help the poor souls)
Here's why:
Dell is currently going thru a major re-orginization, according to some of the major reps for my area.
I ordered some parts that would take *max* 30 days (normal/working, I don't recall)... Try 2 Months.
Dell is getting more propritary than Apple it seems: PowerSupplies, motherboards, ram (except Rambus, IIRC) CPU's with non-standard heatsyncs (nice design, though) and a few other things I'm forgetting. (on arstechnica they blamed crucial for having substandard ram. ROTFLMAO, like saying HP does not know how to make a good laser printer).
I was getting so fed up I asked a friend how he dealt with the crap service with Dell...the answer?
"Oh, we now buy Gateway's for desktops and Compaqs for servers, now".
Yep, that'll do it.
Simply put, Dell is pissing off a lot of people (except for select few in the Federal Gov't from some I've talked to...gee, wonder why?) inside and outside their own walls.
And rebranding printers?
Heh, what do you want to bet that they will be rewired SCSI cables that go from DB25 to centronics50 and cost 75 bucks a piece and can only be bought from Dell?
(I also wonder how long before they do the same to Microsoft and make their own OS...heh: DeOS...out to be a real winner)
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
> now I can stop selling stuff to minorities!
Of course you can. Of course, if they suspect that it's motivated by their minority status, they can still try to sue you for discrimination. It's important to realise that it's discrimination that you'd be being sued for, rather than not selling the stuff.
Not everything that can be measured matters; Not everything that matters can be measured.