Motorola's i95cl

thefalconer writes "MSNBC has a very detailed article about Motorola's new all-in-wonder phone offered by Nextel. It is a PDA, has a Walkie-Talkie, phone, web browser, instant messaging, addressbook, it has a high resolution Color LCD screen, and it's running on a Java Based OS! It even comes in a variety of styles and colors just to your taste. There is so much to this phone that it makes you ask "how'd they get all that, into this tiny little thing?" Makes me want to ditch my old phone for one of these right now!"

Comments

i85s

[BlueTooth]

I have an i85s and aside from the color and the flip phone form factor, it has almost the same specs as the i95...The color is a big thing from implemenation standpoint, but not so much from usability. Unless they've made great strides in the UI design, the thing won't work that well as a PDA...I don't think any phone can be a good PDA without either a touchscreen or qwerty keyboard.

Just my $0.02

~Adam

Re:i85s

[Anonymous Coward]

what about voice?

Re:i85s

[BlueTooth]

I'm not holding my breath for _useable_ voice (i.e. speach recognition) enabled phones...the voice dialing on my i85s isn't even reliable...and I only have three voicenames programmed into it!

Re:i85s

[m_chan]

I also have an 85s as part of an account of several units that I administer. I agree that the color "feature" is at best a visual alteration of existing functions. The people I work with whose phones I am responsible for have a mix of phones; i500, i85, i1000, i2000, i700, and i90.

The differences are mostly geometric. I like my i85 but it is not significantly different than the i50, which can be had for 25 dollars with a one-year commitment. The feature set is practically identical to the 85.

Re:i85s

[evvk]

> I don't think any phone can be a good PDA without either a touchscreen or qwerty keyboard.

I wonder why don't they get rid of keys alltogether and move to using just a touch screen that could display the approriate keys. That way there would be space for a big display without lame sliding or folding lids for the keyboard.

Re:i85s

[Goose In Orbit]

I think he means... does it work as a phone!

Re:i85s

[shanebush]

nextel aren't the only people that offer service on iDEN radio/phones ... If you are in the southeastern US, Southern Company provides SouthernLinc Service

Great service for rural areas...

My 2 cents worth.

Re:i85s

[shanebush]

oops... didn't give link...
Southern Linc website

Re:i85s

[Atryn]

Actually the i95cl does support WAP graphics. Check out the CNN site on it. The color screen makes the menus a bit easier on the eyes, but it is most intended for the wallpapers and Java applications.

radeon?

[Jafafa Hots]

Doesn't ATI have the name all-in-winder trademarked?

Re:radeon?

[zapfie]

Trademark, as in mark of a trade. Unless ATI's trade is building phones, it wouldn't be a problem. ;)

Press Release....

[H3XA]

.... from four months ago...

Motorola's i95cl Press Release

- HeXa

Re:Press Release....

[inerte]

Malda only got the money now for the ad.

Re:Press Release....

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one really thick piece of shit. Surely they can push a fat java OS in it. Swing, right?

"all-in-wonder phone"

[Weffs11]

I'll buy one when it has a real keyboard.
Ever try sending a message on a keypad? MAJOR pain in the ass. You can use chat-shorthand to send message to friends, but replying to business email? Where is the spll chker?

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever try sending a message on a keyboard? MAJOR pain in the ass

You're obviously doing it wrong -- use your fingers!!

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[BlueTooth]

Actually, for writing prose (i.e. e-mail, AIM), the text input on most phones is fairly decent for nine keys...you just type the numbers with the letters you want and the phone as a built in dictionary which it uses to figure out what word you are trying to spell...usually only one or two posibilities....i.e "dog" would be "364"...not "3, 666, 4"

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[Rob.Mathers]

The problem with adding a real keyboard (I'll take that to mean a thumb-type QWERTY) is that it takes up too much space on a phone. It seems that Motorola is going for phone more than PDA with this thing, and phones nowadays are getting smaller and smaller. Even the Nokia 51xx series, which is on the larger end of phones now, wouldn't be able to accommodate a keyboard. The fact of the matter is that manufacturers realise that most people want a small size, and that means no keyboard.
Also consider that very few people in North America actually use features like text and email messaging.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[martyn s]

By the way, that *never* works right.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[contre]

So that means regular phone-text-entry is satanic?

~q of course
contre.org. fighting crime since 1985.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[Jucius Maximus]

"Actually, for writing prose (i.e. e-mail, AIM), the text input on most phones is fairly decent for nine keys...you just type the numbers with the letters you want and the phone as a built in dictionary which it uses to figure out what word you are trying to spell..."

My LG phone has this. (The VX1 aka TM-520) Most of the time it works pretty well but if you are typing someone's name and it is not in the dictionary, you have to turn off the T9 mode, enter the name, then turn T9 back on (causing the name to be added to the dictionary.) It is a great time saver. Aside from proper nouns, it gets the word right almost every time. (For some strange reason, many people claim it never works. Maybe they try to use uncommon words.)

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[Ilgaz]

Ericsson did a real keyboard 1-2 years ago, don't know it exists on non GSM countries... Check this:
http://www.cellphones-accessories.com/ert28 t28chat .html

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[ImaLamer]

The crappy Nokia phones which are handed out for pre-pays around here have that "autocomplete" feature... very nice.

If you can spell at least the first few letters you are all set.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[Cato]

This is typically the T9 system - virtually mandatory on European GSM phones.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[Lemmy Caution]

They make an attachable keyboard for the i85s. It probably works for the i95s.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[gerardrj]

Yes, I do it all the time on my Nextel i1000+. I regularly type out full english words, sentences and paragraphs without any frustration.
Nextel includes T9 text auto-complete with a dictonary of something like 15,000 words. For example:43556 is hello. If there are more words that match, pressing the zero key scrolls through all current possibilities for the word. There is also the option of entering text the old 'multi-tap' way, where hello would be: 4433555555666. You can teach the T9 software words that it doesn't know. I don't know what the limit on learned words is though.

Yes it would be more convienient to have a full keyboard that plugs in to the expansion port, but That would be something else I'd have to take with me.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[Lemmy Caution]

Here's your folding keyboard. Works on a bunch of models.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[Soulslayer]

Actually there is a nice expandable keyboard available for most of the Motorola iDen line of phones. Nextel even offers it at a discount when you sign up for the web service (that unlike many other providers does not eat into your minutes). The keyboard plugs into the feature port at the base of the phone.

I have had my Motorola i1000plus for a while now and it is a great rugged little phone (it was fairly tiny when it first came out). Still has the best damned speaker phone on the market. Better than any high end home phone's speakerphone.

I msut admit the i95c is tempting thought. Perhaps it is finally time to upgrade?

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[rbeattie]

You're obviously very old (at least 24) and from a country that hasn't had SMS for very long. You've got to check out the teens in Europe who all have cell phones and GSM service with SMS. They use it like crazy because they're all using pre-paid accounts and SMS is cheaper then a call. They can type with both thumbs on a normal telephone keypad faster than I can probably type on a normal keyboard. You've got to see it to believe it.

-Russ

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[ywwg]

seriously. my girlfriend finally got a cell phone, and she and I trade text messages back and forth all the time. anyone who complains about text entry either doesn't have t9 or is an old crumudgeon. 9 keys is fine.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[spacefrog]

Ever try sending a message on a keyboard? MAJOR pain in the ass

You're obviously doing it wrong -- use your fingers!!

Use his fingers? On his phone or his ass?

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't believe it, and I'm calling shenanigans on you unless you can prove without a doubt that you can only type 20 words per minute ;)

Sure, some people may type fast on their phone, but when it takes four keypresses to get one S (one of the ten most frequently used English letters)... that's no match for a real keyboard.
Not to mention the problem of double letters, or letters on the same key you need to type in succession (e.g MONday)... you either need to hit an EXTRA key to tell the phone you're moving to the next letter, or you need to pause while 'typing'.

All of these situations crop up all the time when I'm messaging on my phone, UNLES UR WILING 2 WRYT LYK AN ILITIR8, which I'm not.

A keyboard is just quicker... I defy you to find someone with a phone who's any kind of match for someone who's played #chaos for more than a week. I'm sure some of the better phone typists are on par or better than your average two finger "what's a computer?" typist, but that's nothing amazing.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[beddess]

just takes practice. people that do it constantly
build up speed quickly. same as with anything.

plus predictive input is supposedly coming along, which helps too.
admittedly, a spell checker would help a lot of folks.

Re:"all-in-wonder phone"

[Anonymous Coward]

"plus predictive input is supposedly coming along, which helps too."

Huh? Predictive input has been around for ages - my 7110 has it and its a bloody old phone...

Saw this in 'GoldMember'

[OhYeah!]

At first I thought - wow, cool spy shit, then I remembered that I could probably buy one if I wanted to. Big reminder that we are actually living in 2002.

Java-based OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I say we just ditch C. Java is just so much better.

Re:Java-based OS

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think the OS is Java based, just the applications you can load it.

The OS is a C based, licensed from a third party.

A java based OS running on non-java native hardware would be very interesting, but stupid.

Re:Java-based OS

[zapfie]

Java is great for robust solutions, but it is hard to beat C in terms of speed.

Re:Java-based OS

[Anonymous Coward]

J2ME != J2SE. For CLDC, Java runs IN MACHINE CODE,
not in byte code. Learn the difference between desktop java and embedded java. Remember, Java was created to run on toasters. This is where it's strongest. It does not use byte code; it uses MACHINE CODE. Go figure that Sun still calls it Java. Marketing.

Re:Java-based OS

[zapfie]

Heh, nice troll, but I'll bite. I don't recall mentioning machine code or byte code. I find it peculiar you are preaching to me about something I never argued. I stand by what I said earlier. Byte code vs. machine code is not what I was talking about, it is robustness vs. efficiency. The fact that so many things are classes rather than primitives in Java gives you much greater flexibility, but at a performance penalty.

Re:Java-based OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh? What is C but a slightly higher level form of assembly.

Re:Java-based OS

[zapfie]

Here's a little tip. When you hit that reply button, it's usually to reply to something the other person said, not just anything that springs to mind.

just say no to techno-hype

[ike42]

• all-in-wonder: what, is ATI is making phones now?
  (Yes, it is not in the story, but my post is thin without it)
• J2ME (Java) operating system: is this supposed to excite me? This is 2002.
• iDen: WTF is this? It just makes my brain hurt.

Re:just say no to techno-hype

[Wolfier]

iDen is just a network type. i.e. it fits into the set {GSM, CDMA, TDMA, 1XCDMA, GPRS...}

Re:just say no to techno-hype

[Atryn]

iDEN: Integrated Digital Enhanced Network.

i85s

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an i85s and aside from the color and the flip phone form factor, it has almost the same specs as the i95...The color is a big thing from implemenation standpoint, but not so much from usability. Unless they've made great strides in the UI design, the thing won't work that well as a PDA...I don't think any phone can be a good PDA without either a touchscreen or qwerty keyboard.

Just my $0.02

~Adam

Java can replace C in almost all circumstances

[Anonymous Coward]

The risks of running a C-based OS or application on a cell phone is enormous. The safety that Java offers, from bounds-checked buffers to pointerless syntax to automatic garbage collection, simply makes using C on these devices prima facie ridiculous.

This inherently leads one to question C in other situations as well. If C is not a good choice for a small device like this, why in the world would it be a good choice for a machine with hundreds of times the computing horsepower?

Re:Java can replace C in almost all circumstances

[Anonymous Coward]

Becaue you don't need a damn virtual machine for C.

Re:Java can replace C in almost all circumstances

[Anonymous Coward]

And not having a VM gains you what? A few megabytes of harddrive space? That point is so moot, it's laughable.

Re:Java can replace C in almost all circumstances

[Anonymous Coward]

When you are dealing with a driveless platform, it is a big deal.

Native code will be faster. Hands down. You add an extra layer of crap when you throw in a virtual machine.

Re:Java can replace C in almost all circumstances

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the word is 'mootable'.

Re:Java can replace C in almost all circumstances

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell that sob story to Motorola. They seem to think the advantage of having a safe, readable, non-error prone execution environment outweighs the supposed speediness of native executables.

Re:Java can replace C in almost all circumstances

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't need a damn virtual machine for Java either. There are CPUs for which Java byte code IS the machine language.

Of course, C is just a way of running PDP-11 assembly language on other computers, so it's essentially a virtual machine in its own right.

Video Cellular

[thefalconer]

Actually I like this phone a lot. But I can't wait until they make cell phones with built in two way video conferencing. Then you can see the person you're talking to on your cell phone while you proceed to drive yourself right off the road. :) IF they eventually have two way video capability, business professionals will go nuts grabbing them up. Hmm, I wonder if they'll be any good for playing Unreal by then?

Re:Video Cellular

[Anonymous Coward]

I was just at the Au store in Ichikawa and saw a full motion video capable cell phone. It could record and display, so I bet it could do what you are thinking.

Sucks for you to live in the cellular backwater of the world.

Re:Video Cellular

[Jucius Maximus]

"Actually I like this phone a lot. But I can't wait until they make cell phones with built in two way video conferencing."

I have read that this is already available in Japan. The 3G phones have 384kbit downstream and (I think) 96kbit upstream.

It makes me cry because the best internet connection I can get where I live is 28.8. Even my Canadian cellphone can do better than that -- 144kbit on 1xRTT in metropolitan areas.

Re:Video Cellular

[Kizeh]

They exist, most notably in the troubled Foma system in Japan. Some of these phones were showcased in CTIA in Orlando earlier this year, and seemed to work pretty well. The video conferencing isn't going to be the killer though, I predict that the ability to take color snapshots and send them to others much like SMS messages is the feature that's going to prove most popular.

when will someone develop the advanced technology

[reduced]

required to make a cell phone ring like a normal one?

Uhh Great But..

[carpwall]

I've seen 2-3 phones I'd much rather have but my service provider, (sprint/Satan) wouldn't support. Am I the only one to observe that the cellular provider directly ties the choice of phone to its support? Is there a way around this? Can I buy my phone and use it where I please? A year of cellular woes has confused me.

Re:Uhh Great But..

[thefalconer]

Actually from what I've read, the FCC, or some other organization with the power to implement this has started to force the cellular companies to open their networks so that you can actually have any phone you want, not just the ones they're willing to let you have, but rather the ones you want on their networks. Obviously the cellular companies are fighting this with a passion, especially Nextel, but in time (1-2 years) this will be a reality, baring anything unforseen of course.

Re:Uhh Great But..

[mobets]

Yes, but you would have to move to any place in the world outside of the US. Gotta love how we like to make our own standards.

Re:Uhh Great But..

[carpwall]

I certainly hope so. Nothing seems more ridiculous to me than tying hardware to software. But today I tried to buy my father a Motorola phone I liked only to be told, "It wouldn't work on Sprint". This is absolutely insane to me and I can't understand why cell phone manufactures go along with it.

Re:Uhh Great But..

[MaxVlast]

'Cause they get a certain number of guaranteed sales that they decide is worth more to secure than a variable number of consumer-market driven sales.

Re:Uhh Great But..

[bherman]

Actually you can use GSM in the US. Voicestream/T-Mobile website, Cingular (on the west coast) and AT&T (overlaying their current TDMA network) all. I know for a fact Voicestream will let you buy any 1900 mhz GSM phone and use it on their network.

Re:Uhh Great But..

[Kizeh]

GSM. Cingular, VoiceStream and AT&T offer GSM in various parts of the country. The coverage isn't great overall, but improving. They still try to get you to buy a phone that's "subsidy locked" or "provider locked" meaning you can't take it to another provider's network. Some of the vendors also cripple the phones, disabling features they don't feel like supporting.
You can, however, buy normal (unlocked) phones from third parties, off eBay, whatever. VoiceStream has also unlocked people's phones after a sufficiently long service term.
Unfortunately the US decided to use a GSM spectrum different from that used elsewhere on the planet, so you are limited to either domestic models or multi-band world phones. Still, some of the offerings are pretty nifty, and the many of the GSM phones have excellent design and usability.

Re:Uhh Great But..

[Anonymous Coward]

Neat idea but here in the real world, there are a bunch of different communications "standards". Nothing will change the fact that an IDEN phone won't work on any other network. IDEN phones use TDMA. That isn't going to work on a GSM network, be it 900, 1800, or 1900mhz.

Re:Uhh Great But..

[Atryn]

I'd love to know where you are getting your information... I work for Nextel, and AFAIK we are under the stranglehold of Motorola when it comes to Handsets. While iDEN is a great technology, the big drawback is Motorola's patents and licensing.

It has taken us a very long time to get a handset manufactured by anyone else... Our first will arrive in October (from RIM).

Pretty cool..

[affegott]

Having seen it, I must say it is a nice phone. I fixes must of my biggest complaints against the i90c. (Overall, an excellent phone)

I find text entry isn't that bad when using T9. For quick replies, it is quite nice.

It should also be mentioned some of the features Nextel can give you. If you sign up for the developer plan (http://developer.nextel.com) you get 5 MB worth of data and a ROUTABLE IP for the phone. Neat stuff.

Just a thought...

Re:Pretty cool..

[jbf]

Since the website requires a 72-hour registration, care to say a bit more about the plan? Monthly fee? Minutes included? ...

Re:Pretty cool..

[affegott]

They have a "Data Only" option that gives you all the wireless data features they offer. (AOL, email, 2way, text messages, web, address book) It is $25/month to add to any other plan.

There are 2 other plans, Premium and Standard.

Premium provides:
500 Anytime Minutes
100 Direct Connect Minutes
300 Text Messages
5 Meg of Data
Caller ID
Voicemail
$44.99/month

Standard provides:
100 Anytime Minutes
100 Direct Connect Minutes
300 Text Messages
1 Meg of Data
Caller ID
Voicemail
$30.99/month

It looks pricey, but I could easily justify it with the "coolness" factor. Compared to rent/mortgage/electric bill it is nothing. :-)

Later.

Almost Useful!

[httpamphibio.us]

Now put a 10gb firewire drive into it. That would be the perfect device.

Nice, but still a long way to go

[malraid]

A very cool toy alright, but a long way from beign able to replace other "larger" appliances. Right now we should be able to carry such a phone instead of a laptop, a PDA, and a normal cell phone. We should be able to work on our way to the office, plug it on the office computer, and continue. You don't need that much power in a mobile device, since we really spend most of our time writting, reading email, surfing, spreadsheet. Pretty much any device now should be able to do those tasks. Voice recognition will probably never catch on, since it lacks the privacy that other input methods provide(the technology is pretty much there, but people don't want to use it actually). Something like this with a stylus and Graffiti or similiar will be closer to a complete mobilie "office". Until we get brain control that is.

Other products using Java-based OS?

[ike42]

Hey whatever floats your boat ... you'll have to pry the keyboard from my cold,dead hands before I give up C. But I would like to know what other products use this OS.

Re:Other products using Java-based OS?

[LiamQ]

Sun has a list of J2ME wireless devices.

Re:Other products using Java-based OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

You poor, ignorant creature. C compiles down to machine code, but in an intermediary state is assembly. You see, Java ALSO IS ASSEMBLY in byte code form, but it runs on a virtual machine. What happens when you take the VM and burn it into an asics chip? Well, you no longer have an interpreter.

Java, assembly, C, bytecode. It's all the same. Java is used as a tool for rapid GUI development. The end result is a compilation that reduces to machine instructions for a given chip. Tini has been doing this for years. The new kvm from Sun does this as well. Write it in Java, and the compiler translates into fast machine code.

Idiot.

Re:Other products using Java-based OS?

[ike42]

Wow someone really likes Java.
Maybee I don't write code that is going to run on an asics chip.
Maybee I know Java (and -gasp- like Java), but still find C more usefull for what I do.
And you know, I think they can implant a sense of humor now. Try it, you'll live longer.

Re:Other products using Java-based OS?

[kalim]

Some other PDAs using java OS. The Kyocera model looks really cool: http://www.blueboard.com/j2me/devices/

Java based OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when is a Java based OS a feature?
Perhaps 'Java' has such a prominent place in the headlines these days because everyone is amazed that Java can do anything at all...

Re:FP!!

[Anonymous Coward]

sorry chief...

Oh man. 1:33???? Why try? I give up. I can't even insult you. You are just pathetic....I'm sorry....I really am.

I can think of some other replaceables...

[Ghoser777]

Such as, we can replace walking with driving, so why ever walk? Oh wait, there's tons of places where walking is probably a better idea than driving a car. It's been said many times, and its very true: You use the tool that fits the situation. Sure, I could use a screw driver to hit in a nail, but it would be easier to do with a hammer.

Java has all the great things you've mentioned, but it has the draw back of a lot of overhead. It's not a cut and dry decisions - you have to weigh the costs and the benefits in every situation. Java has its place, but give me C or give me death!

Re:I can think of some other replaceables...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a matter of using the wrong tool for the wrong job. If anything, the lightweight binaries would utilize the CPU of this small device much better than Java would. But they didn't go that route. They saw that safety was more important than running fast. The fact of the matter is that CPUs are going to get faster and the overhead that you speak of becomes more and more neglible.

C had its place, just like ASM had its place. There are better, safer alternatives to C now. C++, Java, VB, just to name a few. There really isn't any need to use such an archaic language with as many pitfalls and bug traps as it has.

I am writing this on a 8Mbps connection. I wouldn't want to go back to 56k dialup, even if I had more control over the internet provider and phone number. It's just that I've got a better tool that has *replaced* the older, more tedious tool. I think the same can be said with regards to C.

Re:I can think of some other replaceables...

[Anonymous Coward]

give me C or give me death!

Would unemployment do instead? You fool, the Java programs for EMBEDDED systems are compiled down to machine instructions. It's part of the CLDC (j2me) package. Your comments were about the j2se package (and are incorrect, considering the new jit technologies in Tiger and JDK1.4).

It's like running your mouth off about flaws in Fortran 77 when the conversation is about Fortran 90. Read a little more about j2me before you ask for death, ok pal?

Re:I can think of some other replaceables...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're probably thinking of j2se instead of j2me. Sun calls them all "java" but they are radically different in their internals. The standard edition (j2se), is the old java we all are familiar with. The micro edition, however, works directly in machine code or in a special purpose chip (e.g., picoJava) made just for the device. So it's fast as hell (well, relative to the fact that it's a low power device with a small cpu).

How'd this guy get a +2 mod? He's like talking about the wrong thing. No disrespect; it's a fair question to ask, but it's like totally wrong.

insite...

[neilsly]

from a former nextel employee... I'd seriously consider getting this phone. It'll be a good couple months before it's in stores (probly) and nextels service and customer service highly leave much to be desired.

Re:insite...

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh... It is already in stores.

I have seen it with my own two eyes... Maybe your insight is wrong?

Re:insite...

[Atryn]

The phone has actually been in stores for a month now (though we are having a hard time keeping it on the shelves). As for the customer service, it's not perfect, but we are rated as best in the industry. (tallest of the pygmies?)

Re:insite...

[neilsly]

are you a retail store or an authorized agent / resller? ... for that makes all the difference. I my self was a member of a former lets talk store which became a nextel retail store a couple weeks before I got hired.

Re:insite...

[Atryn]

Actually, I'm a Data Account Executive (DAE) supporting data products and services specifically and all GA Indirect channel dealers.

Re:insite...

[neilsly]

LOL - you're the Data Doctor!

tell me something

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are US cell phones so large compared to those in Europe? Why do people in the US put up with paying to receive phone calls?

Re:tell me something

[carpwall]

Gee, maybe because the Unions don't have such a strangle-hold on the economy. How come toenail clippers cost $5.00? Oh sorry, that should be in ERU. I know celular technology is far in advance of what we have here in the states but damn, that's what 6 weeks of vacation I'll get ya.

Re:tell me something

[MaxVlast]

I think you countered your own point. You were complaining that the unions had control of the economy, but then you pointed out that European cell technology is ahead of ours. You then said that that's what six weeks of vacation will get. Better cell technology. They seem to be the ones winning this game.

Re:tell me something

[zulux]

Our phones are larger because they *do more* - see, America is a large place, with lots of spaces. Those spaces are served by analog cell service, and guess what: those analog sending-and-receiving things (we call them radios) add bulk to our phones.

Also, if we crazy-americans can't get out handgun out qucik enough, we can just beat and GSM totin' weasel-faced euro-toll with out CRAZY -HUGE CELL PHONES.

Note: Non San Francisco Americans will never refer to their cell phone as a 'handy'. God knows how the Europeans picked that habit up...but it must have somthing to do with the water. Or the Gremans. There up to somthing - I just know it.

Re:tell me something

[Anonymous Coward]

dam lack of mod points!!!!

Truth Hertz

(Score: 3, Funny)

Re:tell me something

[Anonymous Coward]

Part of the problem is the US is reluctant to give up dated technology while it is still somewhat useful. Hence a large proportion of cell phones in North America are based on the old analog technology that was released something like 15 years ago [if the ratio has changed to favour digital then feel free to correct me].

The analog technology appeared in an era where >1 GHz spectrum was impossible to stuff into an object about the size of a brick. Once you start entering the higher frequency ranges (where digital cell phones operate) the circuitry MUST become smaller to reduce the inductance / capacitance effects of the circuit boards.

Some governments have mandated the obscelence of the analog network due to the many short commings of the technology (inefficent use of bandwidth, privacy issues, etc...). In fact Australia was the first country to do this (everyone had five years warning so when you replaced your handset everyone chose a digital handset and when the analog cell phone networks went black there were little if no complaints).

Of course this would never happen in the US (shutting down of analog cell phone networks in preference to digital) as this would be interpretted as unjust government influence in private business afairs. While other countries (Europe and others) would treat the RF spectrum as public property which needs to be divided up between the various uses, analog phones simply gobble up more spectrum teritory than is justifable given the efficiency of digitial cell phones.

I hope this sheds some light on the subject...

Re:tell me something

[uspsguy]

Why do Europeans put up with per minuite charges on land based phones? I have a dial-up that stays connected 23+ hours a day. The cost? About $15 a month
Why should someone else pay to talk to me? The phone (cell or land) is for my convience. If I don't want to pay, I can hang up. It takes an awful lot of 1 minute hang up to put a dent in the 3000 min. packages that are becomming popular here.

Re:tell me something

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if you think that better cell technology is actually an advance.

Personally, I think cell phones are a plague.

Re:tell me something

[troc]

It's just a German thing (thank (the) god(s)) - and they don't seem to know why they are called that either.

hohum

troc

Re:tell me something

[protohiro1]

I'm going to miss my GSM "sliver" when I go back to the states. I have this samsung here in Paris that is just absurdly tiny. And it has about a gazillion features, and wireless internet that is very nearly useful. And cell phone (un portable) coverage is only 10-15 times more expensive than it is in the states.

It still has a high cool factor, like an led "service" slight that has user-configurable colors. I will never understand why the GSM phones are so much cooler, but they are. Maybe that's where my 50 a month for 120 minutes goes.

Re:tell me something

[NDPTAL85]

They aren't winning much with the higher rates of unemployment over there.

Re:tell me something

[zulux]

There are some fun GSM phones no doubt - but due to the huge expense of Euopean cell coverage, I actually bring my "Friggin-Huge" Iridium phone to Europe. The call quality sucks, but to call back home it only $1.50 per min - I'm usre there a plan out there that's cheaper but I've been too lazy to find one. It's quite a conversation starter - "Ill parlez avec les etoiles" is the best I can do with my poor French skills.

The best thing about the phone, is that the landline originating caller pays for the entire call! I hand out the number with no fear.

Re:tell me something

[Anonymous Coward]

Analog? WTF you talkin' 'bout, Willis? The phone discussed in this article doesn't do analog. It doesn't even handle multiple GSM formats. Or any GSM format. It uses TDMA and that's it.

'scuse me while I check the charge on my trusty old T28.

Re:tell me something

[NZKiwi]

Why should someone else pay to talk to me?

If you actually need to have people ring you for free, simply get an 800 number and point that at your phone.

But really, as most people have mobiles (yes, I'm talking about NZ (approx 60% of us have one) here, not Europe, and especially not the US), and lots of them of them have free minutes to make outbound calls with; it doesn't cost them anything to ring you anyway. It's only those poor saps (like telemarketers) stuck with landlines who have a problem.

Re:tell me something

[NeuroUk]

>The best thing about the phone, is that the landline originating caller pays for the entire call! I hand out the number with no fear.

Who eaver in the FCC allowed that stupidity through should be in the slammer with the corupt acountants.

Along with the IRS people who think that people should be taxed on an unreailised asset.

Re:tell me something

[gosand]

*sigh*

Please don't embarass America any more with your pathetic spelling/grammar. (for the 100th time, you mean "their", not "there" - dumbass. And if you think that these phones use analog, think again.

The real reason America is so F'd up when it comes to cell phones is because we are so damn big. We simply have a lot of surface area in our country, and to produce phones that can work everywhere takes a lot longer. The logistics of it are just more complicated.

And, we have to drive EVERYWHERE. Unless you live in a city, chances are you are going to be in your car every day. If we were able to properly use public transportation, people might be more inclined to use phones. Well, not that they don't while they are driving, but those people aren't the highest memebers on the evolutionary scale.

I guess what I am trying to say is, we have a different kind of country. What we can't do in the way of cellphone technology, we make up for in other areas. (good or bad, take them for what they are)

Re:tell me something

[zulux]

Just curious, what is wrong when the person who calls my phone gets stuck with all the charges? Why should I be charged just to answer my phone?

iDen?

[ike42]

Motorola, you bad boy, have you been hanging around with Steve again?

Re:iDen?

[affegott]

Too bad iDEN was around FAR before Apple went on its "i" kick. :-)

Just what we need....

[mrbrown1602]

All we ever needed - more things for idiots to do while driving.

US Phones.

[Anonymous Coward]

As anyone who has spent some time in Japan knows, our phone are WAY behind where they could be. Nice to see them catching up, though.

heh heh

[Dr. Awktagon]

Until then I was using some of the built-in, pre-composed responses. Needless to say one co-worker was confused when I sent him a message saying "I love you"!

But the confusion quickly turned into shared delight as Gary and Tom discovered the vibrating silent-ring feature and sent each other instant messages long into the night.*

Motorola.. bringing people together..

*optional waterproof cover required

Re:heh heh

[barzok]

If the optional waterproof cover is required, it's not very optional, is it?

Re:heh heh

[Moofie]

Um, it's only required if you want to stick the phone in a body cavity, and believe me, THAT IS optional.

Re:heh heh

[Anonymous Coward]

Cavities? So the hamster can use the phone? Clever!

Re:heh heh

[Moofie]

That was funny. : )

Re:Suck it bitch

[Anonymous Coward]

you're my hero

Uh oh.

[DarkHelmet]

and it's running on a Java Based OS!

Sorry, but enthusiastic bantor about Operating Systems are reserved for Linux items only.

This story has angered the Open Source Gods. Retract this open enthusiasm at once, or fear their retribution.

Re:Uh oh.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's running Java-based Linux kernel!

Re:Uh oh.

[Anonymous Coward]

And besides, J2ME isn't a Java-based OS. It's just a virtual machine that's been specified, similiar to the way J2SE or J2EE has been.

Re:Uh oh.

[wljones]

It also uses TDMA (time division multiple access), a miserable multiplexing system promoted by ATT that has trouble with high-pitched voices, and it connects to Windows computers only. Save your money. There are better ways to do the same thing with CDMA and GSM. Only the USA loves standards so much that they adopt them in large numbers while ignoring the mutual incompatibility and inconvenience to (l)users.

Re:Uh oh.

[Anonymous Coward]

nice bit of american bashing. get real. the company that owns the key cdma patents IS in the united states. Nokia/att/motorola are the big pushers of TDMA simpley because they do not want to pay the Qualcomm tax. The only thing that all 4 companies are doing is segmenting the market and creating zelots. If you want to see standards, try europe. They dont even WANT to look at CDMA because of Nokia. As for CDMA, god help you if you get away from a major interstate or are not near a large city. It just will not work. Even then coverage is STILL spotty and most towers are oversold.

But back on the artical big deal. Saw this phone a week ago at best crap. A 1 1/2 inch screen WHO cares if the resolution is better or that its a pda. Its still a phone, but a lousy pda. The next day I saw a PDA that had a phone in it. Its an excelent PDA but a crummy phone because now its too wide... There is not a very nice balance.

copy&paste time

[Jucius Maximus]

Motorola i95cl

General Features

* Color Display
* Voice Recorder
* Speakerphone
* Voice Activation
* Multi-Language Support
* Time & Date Display
* SIM Card Operation
* Custom Styles Settings
* Pre-Installed Software Applications
* JAVA(TM) 2 Micro Edition Capable**

SLIM BATTERY: 19g, up to 2h talk time, up to 45h standby

EXTENDED BATTERY: 33g, up to 3.33h talk time, up to 75 standby.

(hmmm ... battery life seems to be its most apparent weakness. My LG VX1 / TM-520 is rated at 180 min talk / 110h standby from the standard battery.)***

Digital Cellular Phone Service

* Voice Activated Dialing
* 250 Entry Phonebook
* Quickstore Phone Numbers
* Last 20 Recent Call List*
* Turbo Dial® one-touch dialing
* VibraCall® alert

Digital Two-Way Radio

* One-Touch Private & Group Call
* Quickstore Private IDs
* Built-In Speaker

Message Service

* Consolidated In-Box Storage
* Voice & Message Mail Indicators
* Time & Date Stamp*

Data Capable*

* Software Download Capability
* Internet Access Services
* T9® Text Input for Fast Entry

Performance Specifications

* Dimensions: 90mm X 50mm X 28mm with Slim Battery
* Weight: 154.4g
* Power 600mW typical
* Frequency Range:
Tx 806 - 825 Mhz/Rx 851-870 Mhz
* Channel Spacing: 25 kHz
* Channel Access: TDMA
* Operating Temperature: -10C to + 60C
* Storage Temperature (Radio Only): -40C to + 85C

Specifications are typical and subject to change.

* Network and subscription dependent feature not available in all areas.
** Visit www.motorola.com/idenupdate for a list of downloadable software applications.
*** I was not paid by LG to type that :-)

Re:copy&paste time

[brsmith4]

attempted karma whoring not going quite as expected, eh? perhaps, but informative none the less. I still have my nokia 3600. It was obsolete the minute I brought it out of the phone dealer. What a shame.

Re:copy&paste time

[Jucius Maximus]

"attempted karma whoring not going quite as expected, eh? perhaps, but informative none the less. I still have my nokia 3600. It was obsolete the minute I brought it out of the phone dealer. What a shame."

Nope ... I already have full karma but you can't know that. I found that the article was too light so I surfed around the motorola site and then decided to save everyone else the legwork.

At least you probably got a good deal on the nokia 3600 if it was obsolete. I did the same thing a year ago with a Sanyo 4000 and all the accessories were 1/2 price.

Re:copy&paste time

[MonkeyBoy]

(hmmm ... battery life seems to be its most apparent weakness. My LG VX1 / TM-520 is rated at 180 min talk / 110h standby from the standard battery.)

Well, historically, iDEN phones have much lower talk times. They are transmitting much, much more often than typical digital phones.

But by the same token within a second of hitting the DirectConnect button you're talking to a coworker - which is entirely because their servers know exactly where the phone is due to the constant check-ins.

FWIW, the closest phone to the i95 is not the i85, it's the i90. Take an i95c, stick in a slower CPU, remove memory (I think it's 50%), and of course swap in a lower-res greyscale screen - voila, i90. They both run Java apps, they both can surf the web (for a monthly fee).

Also, I dunno how great calling it a "Java phone" is - it just optionally runs Java apps. The phone itself is running... er... some OS... when you enter the Java section (the first time after installing a battery) you have to wait as the VM loads and initializes.

Not that it's a horrible phone by any means, just don't expect it to be a traditional digital cell phone - because it's not. Range, voice quality, etc. are quite different.

Full-size keyboard already available

[Anonymous Coward]

They've had full-size detachable keyboards that will work with these for about a year now. They're just like the Targus ones for Palm's and PocketPC's. They work great, and I routinely send email using my i85s with one (keyboards and most other accessories will work accross all the current generation of iDEN phones, including the i95cl).

Only for English...

[interactive_civilian]

Typing in English on a phone keypad is definitely a lot of trouble. But, in Japanese, it can be fairly quick and efficient (granted, it isn't as quick as a computer keyboard).

During my first several months here in Japan, when my phone was my only contact to the outside world (went 8 months w/out internet), I eventually gave up emailing my family and friends in English, but instead would email my Mom in Japanese (one of her co-workers would translate) because it was taking 10-20 minutes to type a message in English that would only take 2-5 minutes in Japanese.

Anyway, compared to the offerings on phones here in Japan, that phone doesn't seem like much...not to mention it is huge. Of course, I don't really have much use for a walkie-talkie so this kind of thing isn't really for me.

Cheers. :)

Re:when will someone develop the advanced technolo

[MaxVlast]

Big expansion box with a bell in it?

denwa (�d�b)

[interactive_civilian]

* iDen: WTF is this? It just makes my brain hurt.

My guess is that the den in iDen is short for "denwa" ("db) which is the Japanese word for phone (incidently the den in denwa means electric).

Of course, there is definitely some "Steve" in that name as well, eh? ;-)

Re:denwa (�d�b)

[Cato]

I suppose a Google search was more difficult than speculating... This has nothing to do with Japanese - not surprisingly since iDEN was invented by Motorola. See http://idenphones.motorola.com/iden/what_is_iden.j sp for the acronym and some introductory info.

Re:denwa (�d�b)

[Anonymous Coward]

ooh, you're such a mastermind finding these neccessary answears!! And i love your way of critizing the above poster! I APPLAUDE YOU FOR YOUR STUPIDITY!

what I want.

[ilovelinux]

Actually, I really hate alot of new features on phones. If I have to dig 3 or 4 menus down for something - why bother?

My dream phone details would be:

1. About the size of a Nokia 3390. This is big enough to be usuable, but small enough so it doesn't feel like you're carrying a sidearm

2. Waterproof, and capable of withstanding a fall to concrete from atleast 6ft (most people's height) My clumsiness has ruined a few phones.

3. Absolutely secure RF communications. Link from handset to cell site should be encrypted.

4. Extra features would include a simple phone directory and email.

Too me, everything else is just overkill. If you want a toy, buy a wireless PDA.

Re:what I want.

[Anonymous Coward]

You probably prefer vi over Emacs too.

Scratch that. You're an ed guy, aren't you?

Re:what I want.

[blue trane]

1. About the size of a Nokia 3390. This is big enough to be usuable, but small enough so it doesn't feel like you're carrying a sidearm

How long till they make cell phones with built-in guns.

Re:What I want.

[nchip]

err

how exectly are you going to tell your boss with POTS phone and desktop computer, that you just got jammed in a traffic jam and will be late from work?

mobile phone with camera: just take a pic of the jam and send it to your bosses email.

impliying that mobile phones just replace POTS is like 80's thinking. At least here in Finland. And yes, we have a excellent POTS network, people just find mobile phones more usefull.

Re:What I want.

[bons]

"mobile phone with camera: just take a pic of the jam and send it to your bosses email."

Yeah. Like anyone's boss reads their e-mail. Right...

Heck. If anyone did that, he'd probably figure they was surfing the web from home and screwing with him. What are the chances of a PHB beliving someone was really in their car taking photos with a phone?

The dilberts of the world never win.

Re:what I want.

[Anonymous Coward]

I just wanted to point out that #3 and #4 have already been accomplished for practically every mobile phone.

Re:what I want.

[Vegeta99]

GSM is already encrypted. TDMA can be, dunno about CDMA, but it should be because of the unique public key tagging for calls.

Re:What I want.

[DrSbaitso]

"err

how exectly are you going to tell your boss with POTS phone and desktop computer, that you just got jammed in a traffic jam and will be late from work?"

I think I would call him on my POTS-like cell phone and tell him that, which is what the parent is implying :)

Re:Offered by Verizon?

[Anonymous Coward]

In terms of spectral efficiency, you just can't beat iDen. GSM is too wasteful, and it operates at higher freqs in the USA (~1.8 GHz IIRC). Talk about brain tumors. ;-)

And the reason for that is

[Weffs11]

Incompatable formats.
TDMA and GSM are incompatable formats. My phone, the Nokia 3360 works just fine with Cingular, which uses TDMA. Sprint dosn't, and so my phone dosn't work with Sprint.
Also, the Cingular sales rep was open about the fact that phones besides the ones in store worked, just to make sure that it supported TDMA.

Re:And the reason for that is

[AlphaOne]

GSM is a TDMA system.

TDMA simply stands for Time Division, Multple Access. This is in contrast to systems that use CDMA, or Channel Division, Multiple Access.

The only real incompatibility between traditional TDMA and GSM is the protocols used. The underlying transport layer is essentially the same.

A phone capable of TDMA should be just as easily capable of GSM (as it's just a protocol change). In fact there are many iDen phones out there that can speak GSM for use in Europe and elsewhere. CDMA is a bit more challenging as it's a patented technology by Qualcomm.

The biggest obstacle is frequencies... traditional TDMA and CDMA use the standard cellular ranges. GSM (in the United States) uses 1.9 GHz. In order to be "universal" you'd need to talk 800MHz, 900MHz, 1.8GHz, and 1.9GHz (have I missed any?).

Re:And the reason for that is

[naes]

The only thing you missed is that CDMA stands for Code Division, Multiple Access not Channel Divison, Multiple Access.
CDMA also uses 1.9 GHz and GSM in Europe uses 1.8GHz.

Re:And the reason for that is

[squiggleslash]

That's not true. GSM and I-136/D-AMPS/"TDMA" may use an underlying time-division-multiple-access technology, but saying that this means the phones are essentially using the same transport layer is like saying that trains and cars can travel on the same "roads" because they both use wheels as the underlying transport layer. The details matter, and the details are more than just protocols you use.

Time Division Multiple Access means taking a slice of spectrum, subdividing it into even more slices, and then subdividing each slice into different time slots. Each phone making an active call is given a time slot and spectrum sub-slice, which typically changes each time the time slot is used (so that the phone isn't transmitting on the same frequency all the time which helps eliminate static conditions - where one misaligned phone permanently screws up the calls of neighbours, for instance.)

You can already see there are a lot of variables. How large are the spectrum subslices? I don't remember the details off hand, but IIRC it's something like 30KHz for "TDMA" (IS-136, etc) and a much larger slice for GSM. GSM splits the time slot into 64 slots, IIRC, carrying 8 "calls" per spectrum sub-slice, whereas for IS-136 etc it's something like 18, carrying three calls per spectrum sub-slice. And, all importantly, what is the encoding used? Splitting the frequency and time space is one thing, but there's always the question of what types of waveform you transmit - FSK, MFM, etc. A V.21 modem doesn't use a transmission protocol remotely similar to a V.32 modem, and the same sorts of differences apply to how your mobile phone works. This is becoming more of a concern recently now that Ericsson has developed "EDGE". EDGE keeps most of the details above the same for GSM, but massively increases the bitrate, simply through using a different type of waveform.

A phone that offers both IS-136/etc functionality and GSM needs either a special chipset developed or needs to have chipsets for both underlying systems installed on the radio side of the phone. You wouldn't be able to, say, change the firmware on a GSM phone and expect it to work on an IS-136/etc network.

I think part of the confusion here is that there's a lot of CDMA advocates around, who have "Amiga-fan" syndrome, where they'll simply accuse everything other than CDMA, as Qualcomm implements it (IS-95 and cdmaOne), of being the "same" technology and attribute GSM faults to IS-136 and vice-versa, because of emotion rather than logic (anyone who saw the Amiga wars during the early 90s has an idea of what I'm talking about, where the Amiga was the "only" computer that multitasked and only it had shared libraries and... and...)* Anyone who's used all three types of phone (cdmaOne/IS-95, IS-136/D-AMPS/"TDMA", and GSM) will know that there are radical differences between all three systems, but people who haven't still believe things like GSM and IS-136 have the same voice quality, that the underlying systems work the same way, etc.

It would save AT&T and Cingular wireless, both of whom are switching to GSM, a huge dollop of money were it true. Upgrading their base stations to support GSM would be a simple matter of loading new firmware.

(* Note: I loved the Amiga to death and thought it genuinely was superior. "CDMA", IS-95, on the other hand, suffers from having relatively lousy functionality compared to GSM, call quality is roughly equivalent and call reliability seems poor, on Sprint PCS's network at least. I wouldn't use a PDA phone with something that doesn't support personal mobility, which makes GSM the only choice for me right now. GSM is starting to support a variety of underlying transport layers, including EDGE and a CDMA-based system [not compatable with IS-95], which we'll start seeing in newer phones as 3G begins to take hold.)

First Post

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah!

imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

a beowulf cluster of those!

Not a PDA

[Cato]

Despite the article calling it a PDA phone, it is what's called a featurephone, similar to the Ericsson T68i. If you are on iDEN it sounds like a reasonable phone, but I would want Bluetooth so I could use a wireless headset (Motorola makes a good one that's the size of four or five postage stamps).

And of course the OS is not written in Java, it is just running J2ME apps (hopefully MIDP ones). For some apps for such Java phones, see www.midlet.org and www.mobiled.net.

What? No GPS ?!?

[ivi]

(that's all... simple surprise at the omission)

Re:What? No GPS ?!?

[J0ey4]

There is a GPS system available for download. Of course you need to pay for it (one time fee) and have a more costly "Network Aware" subscription plan...but if you need it its there

Re:when will someone develop the advanced technolo

[Sycraft-fu]

They do have normal rings. My cellphone sounds almost the same as my cordless. Most people just program in silly, cutesy rings or songs or the like because they like it. The phones themselves have a host of normal rings.

My problem with Nextel

[phoneboy]

is the fact that only one company makes phones for it. Well, that and it's not GSM (well, technically, TDMA is based on GSM, but that's a different discussion altogether) and I'm not a fan of Motorola's phones.

If you want a full QWERTY keyboard in a cell phone and have a decent GSM service in your area, I highly recommend the Nokia Communicator. Heck, you can even run Opera on it (see here for details).

-- PhoneBoy
"Forward into the past."

Re:My problem with Nextel

[squiggleslash]

technically, TDMA is based on GSM

"TDMA", the US TDMA-based phone system, is based on AMPS with enhancements. It runs over a TDMA - Time Division Multiple-Access - technology radio network. For reasons which seem to exist to promote confusion, the IS-136/D-AMPS/etc networks that AT&T etc run are often refered to by the name of the underlying technology when GSM is always refered to as GSM, and that, and CDMA advocates doing what advocates do, has ensured plenty of confusion.

I've posted a little response on the subject here.

Agree with you about the Communicator, I've a review here of it and my experiences using it on AT&T's new GSM network in Florida. Love the phone to death despite a lot of faults and "Why the hell didn't they..." issues.

Re:My problem with Nextel

[Atryn]

We'll release a RIM device in October. Blackberry with fully qwerty keyboard, J2ME, Direct Connect, Cellular, etc. And it won't require a headset, you can hold it to your ear like any phone if you like.

Re:when will someone develop the advanced technolo

[Burning1]

Best feature of my StarTac: It doesn't play music. ^_^

Yes, but...

[Burning1]

...does it make coffee and fries? : p

Already been done

[Recca]

I have been living in Japan for a couple weeks and this article made me laugh. Third Generation cell-phones are very, very popular in The Land of the Rising Sun. A standard 3G phone comes with a hi-res color LCD, built-in camera, e-mail, decent sound, and lots of other stuff along with almost flawless service. Oh and all of this is about $150. The pink models with photo-stickers and custom flashing antennas added by their users are admittedly cute. =( In comparison to what I have seen in Japan, this Motorola model is bulky, ugly, boring, and overpriced. Anyway, the bottom line is the MSNBC article seemed naive to me, but I would love to see Third Generation cell-phones become popular in America and see the prices of these go down.

Oh and don't worry about the typing. Some Japanese people can get up to 100 kanji characters per minute which I would say is equivalent to 70-80 English words per minute. Granted, these are people who win thumb-typing contests, but if one were to have good word recognition software and a little practice, typing on a keypad would become much easier and usable for lengthy messages.

motorola phones suck

[austad]

I've had a couple motorola phones in the past, and all I can say is that they have sucked. Maybe the i95 is an exception, but motorola's UI systems have always been crap, and battery life is shit. 45 hours of standby and 2 hours talk? C'mon, that sucks ass. My Sony Ericcson T68i has 480 hours standby and 7 hours of talk time. Though reality is a little less, but not much.

Plus, the T68i is $149, not a whopping $399. It has all of the features that the i95 has except that walkie talkie crap. I can sync the thing with my PIM via IR or bluetooth, I can run a little outlook plugin thing just like the guy writing the article and access all of my Outlook crap in real time, or I can even load some pr0n on the phone to view when I'm bored or send to a friend who's feeling down.

$399 for a phone with poor battery life does not seem like a good deal to me. And that price is *with* service, if nextel is discounting this phone like most providers do, this thing is an insane ripoff. Save yourself the money and get a T68i with ATT, Voicestream, or Cingular service. It has the same features, in a ligher package, for less, and with the best battery life of any phone I've ever had.

Re:motorola phones suck

[Atryn]

Really? The T68i has J2ME and unlimited 500 character two-way messaging? Oh, I'm sorry, you meant it makes phone calls.

Not such a great idea...

[OneFix]

Everything in one box is not always a great idea.

I know that I use my PDA to remind me when to pay bills and such. I also have a tendency to let my Cell Phone battery get low on power...especially when I'm away from home for along time...imagine if your battery goes dead...now you no longer have a PDA, Walkie-Talkie, phone, or addressbook.

And to be honest, the "Walkie-Talkie feature is a Nextel only feature. It's really just a special channel...the phone has to be changed, but it's still only available with Nextel. The person you are talking to has to be in the Nextel network as well, and you are still charged per minute for using this feature (XXX "free" minutes under your plan). That having been said, it's also a very kewl feature...however, simply calling cell-to-cell would acomplish the same thing with another provider...

I like having my PDA seperate from my cell phone. The other thing is, this thing seems too small to be very useful as a PDA (1.9" x 1.9" screen vs. 4.5" x 3.1"). I like the big screen of my Palm IIIxe...

There's another point, how long must these batteries last? They claim 2 hours of talk time and 45 hours on standby...I have to say that this number is most likely without using the PDA feature...I didn't even buy a color Palm because it eats batteries too much.

Then again, I have had to replace my cell phone twice in the last year, yet I still have a Palm III with no problems. Wonder if this has a Flash ROM that can be switched out when the phone dies...what about syncing with a desktop...if you can't switch the memory I certainly hope you can sync with a PeeCee...otherwise, it's useless as a PDA...

SonyEricsson P800

[juuri]

http://www.sonyericsson.com/cebit/p800.htm

I am suprised no one has mentioned this yet as this appears to be the first truly killer integrated solution to come along. Phone sized, with a decent display, bluetooth, java, gprs, camera, memory expansion and lots more rolled up in a symbian (psion) os.

What I want in a cell phone

[efedora]

How about eliminating my wallet? I want my phone to take the place of id's and credit cards. I want to walk up to the checkout at Home Depot and when the clerk says 'That'll be $17.46' I'll just whip out my phone (which has all the necessary crypto coded numbers for my credit card accounts inside) and type in the amount and an approval code (which is transmitted by infra red to the POS terminal along with my id info) and then just take my receipt and leave.
I can't believe that no cell phone company has come up with this feature yet. The phones have all the necessary hardware. It's just a software problem and as everyone knows those are easy to solve. I also want to use my phone for payment on vending machines, toll roads and even for identification at bars where they think I'm under age. (Fat chance.)

Re:What I want in a cell phone

[mccalli]

How about eliminating my wallet?....I can't believe that no cell phone company has come up with this feature yet.

Being trialed in the UK at the moment, by Virgin I believe.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:What I want in a cell phone

[Anonymous Coward]

which is transmitted by infra red to the POS terminal along with my id info

Meanwhile that 15 year old behind you in line is scarfing your credit card numbers out of the air.

Re:What I want in a cell phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Nextel is already working on this. Some idiot VP came up with a great idea: Putting a bar code sticker on your phone. You could then use it everywhere a compatible reader was available. Nextel phones are bulky because of the Direct Connect walkie talkie. And Nextel phones dont need a GPS: They can trace your location down to a city block by following your phone signal(dont ask me how this is done..i just saw the demo)

Re:What I want in a cell phone

[redGiraffe]

There is a company in South Africa that does this using the WIG browser on your cell (or WIB or whatever its called). Needs a buy in with the provider and the bank (of course) - get your provider on to them.

http://www.fundamo.com

Re:What I want in a cell phone

[Anonymous Coward]

My Nokia 6310 has a wallet feature built in, but I refuse to use that ;) Although it does store my credit/debit card info and automatically pastes all the info into WAP pages when I want to buy something, the functionality to use the phone to buy stuff in real shops isn't here just yet...

no comparison to the treo 270? ;o)

[merc_sa]

I'm shocked :o) of course, I'm more than biased
at this point. I love the 270. The keyboard is
definitely the deal breaker comparing this phone
to the 270. I can't imagine trying to keep
updated with my checkbook app with a 10-key pad.
The PDA and web surfing functions just seem
unwielding when you have to 10key the thing.
Imagine trying to post on slashdot with it,
or IM using AIM or MS messenger on the road ;o)

the i95 appears to be a phone first and PDA as
an afterthought to me whereas t270 should really
be used with a headset at all times (it's still
too little too big to be used as a handset).
Of course, t270 cost more as well.. :o( but then
it's worth every penny I paid for it.

What I want.

[Blaede]

Unlimited nationwide PLAIN OLD TELEPHONE SERVICE service for no more than $30. The ability to plug a desktop computer and use it as a modem would work as well. That's all I need.

I need a wirelss telephone replacement of my wired one, which is all what MOST of us want. Why are the wireless companies so averse to selling this?

All in Wonder this

[hype7]

Nokia 7650, all the features of that Motorola thing, plus it runs on the Symbion EPOC OS and has mobile Java built in. Runs SyncML, the standard for synchronising contacts etc between devices.

Good review of a preproduction 7650 here

-- james

groan....

[Dynedain]

a java OS

why do we have to keep coming up with new operating systems for these things? I hate to admit it, but Microsoft is on the right track with these things.

I love my Samsung I-300....phone+color PALM....

Whats the point of being able to store all these wonderfull names and addresses, if you cant transfer them to someone else without a hassle?

Re:groan....

[linuxlover]

is this the one with touch screen keypad for phone.?

Re:groan....

[Chanc_Gorkon]

I don't believe the OS is Java based. I think it's Java enabled. Meaning, one could write Java applications and download them to the phone. Motorola has their own OS for these(I believe it's called iDEN). The i95cl, i85 and all NEXTEL phones have had this since the i50s came out (except color).

Re:groan....

[Oxide]

I couldnt agree more.

java OS ??? why in the world would I wanna exchange my PALM powered PDA with all the beautifull apps for a .... java OS ?

on the other hand.. check out:
http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/showroom/showcas e/ coming_soon.htm

that is something intresting. You get a Phone/Palm pda with OS4.1/mp3 player/ and an expansion slot.

Re:groan....

[Anonymous Coward]

you must not have used either a phone or a palm very much before getting your i300. i hate mine- it's a shitty palm and a worse phone, and the "integration" of the two is laughable.

Re:groan....

[conradp]

why do we have to keep coming up with new operating systems for these things?

Here's one possible reason, quoting from the article:

Mobile e-mail ($7.50/mo.), AOL Instant Messaging ($5/mo.), two-way messaging ($7.50/mo.), and Address Book ($5/mo.)

If they used a normal operating system like Palm OS or WinCE, you'd be able to download software for simple stuff like email and address books. By locking you into their new operating system, you have to buy their overpriced "services."

Re:groan....

[Atryn]

Actually, every single service you just listed operates in the WAP browser, not J2ME.

J2ME is great for Nextel customers (which are actually 85% businesses, not consumer) because it allows resident applications easily developed and integrated into backend systems. Espescially those written in J2EE.

Palm and Windows CE come with heafty liscensing fees, not to mention hardware requirements that would make the phone bigger and more expensive than J2ME. Going with J2ME is a gamble for the company, but our developers seem to love it. Sun/Motorola/Nextel are also operating under several joint development programs. (Someone has to fight M$)...

Nextel Sucks too

[Micro$will]

About a quarter of NYC is blacked out to Nextel, especially in the Greenpoint area, and it was like this long before 9/11. Luckily LCDs don't have to worry about burn in like CRTs or my old i1000 would have 'no svc' permanantly etched in the display.

Basic Nextel service costs $39.95 right now I believe. That's around 200 minutes or so, including the direct connect. What they neglect to inform everyone is that every time you push that DC button, you'll get charged for a minute, even if it's just for a 2 second "yes", "no", or "I'm outside". Those minutes dry up fairly quick, even if you only know 2 or 3 people with DC capable phones. I have yet to find anyone using Nextel that actually pays what their original calling plan cost. Fortunately, Customer Service will be more than happy to help you sign up for a better contract, such as $99/mo unlimited, which you wouldn't really need if they didn't screw you with the billing shenanigans.

Re:Nextel Sucks too

[Atryn]

Basic Nextel service is $39.99 for the UPC 200 plan. That provides 200 minutes of cellular and UNLIMITED Direct Connect. Whatever plan you were on that didn't have unlimited radio was your own fault.

Also, I know ppl from NYC who will directly contradict your assertion that 1/4 of the city is blacked out. That's just BS.

Re:Nextel Sucks too

[Anonymous Coward]

Look at their bill. I guarantee you it's not $39.99, no matter who they get the plan from. Oh wait, lemme guess ... they're on the $99 plan. Why's that?

Oh, I'm wrong about the coverage too, huh? Call them on the cell. Here's a preview:

"Please stand by while the Nextel customer you're trying to reach is located."

Re:when will someone develop the advanced technolo

[merc_sa]

I guess you've never had to contend with the
situation where one ring goes off and the entire
room of people goes into spasms reaching in
various crevices for their gadgets *grin*

this affliction is followed closely by the spontaneous spasm where the person you're talking
to suddenly convulses and find a sudden urge to
reach for his/her gadget in the middle of a
conversation...

the former was corrected with the silly tones..
the latter have yet encountered a solution..

Re:when will someone develop the advanced technolo

[edwazere]

To be honest I'd hate that.
I think I'ce only "heard" my new phone ring once since I bought it.

A tiny descreet "bleep" and the vibrate function going off usually works just fine for me.

Which is a shame, 'cos I've got some funky ringtones on there ;-)

Go GSM/GPRS...

[phunqe]

and go Ericsson P800 :)

all of

[Anonymous Coward]

this but no report of the sony-ericsson p800?

Comprehensive mobile review site?

[Mochatsubo]

Does anyone know of a site that reviews phones in depth? I'm particularly interested in aspects such as UI, independent measure of battery life, comparison of signal strength, and "shoot out" type reviews.

Thanks,

-willryu

Java based OS?

[pyite]

A Java based OS is the computing equivelent of a marshmellow based automobile. A lot of fluff, but no stuff.

Re:Java based OS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bollocks.

no built in GPS

[Anonymous Coward]

or digital camera for that matter. who
cares about games?

Nice

[Anonymous Coward]

But how long does the battery last?

It's well integrated, but I won't be really impressed until it's smaller.

Dammit, I want a credit card personal communicator, with wireless projection video interface to my glasses, and hands-free audio with a voice interface to its functions. And it better have a fast wireless link to the world too.

Too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

If it ran Linux for the OS, I might consider buying one. Anyone got this ported to it yet?

Nextel Direct Connect

[blues5150]

I am a user and administrator for our company's Nextel account. The biggest selling point for the Nextel/Motorola phones is the direct connect feature. What they don't tell you is that this is that you can only use this "radio feature" in your local calling area. Users do not have the ability to connect across the country (USA). Or even in the next State in some sections of the country. Our office is based in Connecticut, but we cannot communicate via the "radio" to our field personnel miles down the road in Rhode Island or Massachusetts. Users are restricted to using the phone to communicate. However the Internet part will work anywhere that there is service.

I have been told by people working inside Nextel that the Direct Connect radio feature will be available beyond local calling areas next summer. I also read this in one of Nextel's brochures I received the other day. This will be a big plus for their service.

Re:Nextel Direct Connect

[fnulnu]

I'm in Connecticut. I use a Nextel and I have used direct connect between South New Jersey and New Haven, Connecticut. It must be your contract, not the phone.

That being said, Nextel in Connecticut has poor coverage. If you stray from the I-95/I-91/I-84 highways, forget about it

Re:Nextel Direct Connect

[blues5150]

Right, your're on the same network as those people but you won't be able to use your direct connect in RI, Most of MA NH, VT, or ME. It's still localized. You will be able to use your direct connect in CT, parts of NY, NJ and I think maybe PA. The actual phone part works anywhere there is Nextel coverage.

v60

[evil_qwerty]

I just spent 335 on a v60 a week and a half ago and now I hear about this phone, MAN AM I PISSED!

Re:v60

[Vegeta99]

Jesus, a week and a half ago Amazon.com had them for free with a contract. They only cost that much when they came out last November.

Re:v60

[beddess]

you got hosed, i just scored one for 2 and a quarter or so.

Yet another useless toy...

[Anonymous Coward]

... for ignorant kids who haven't got a life outside gadgets, and who fancy themselves important by beeing seeing in public with such gimmicks.

Which is, of course, terrific from the point of view of the companies coming up with these silly toys.

Ericsson P800 kicks its ass

[Anonymous Coward]

The Ericsson P800 kicks this machines ass, In addition, there is no Microsoft tax to pay!!!

Why these phones are bad.

[FreeLinux]

Great. They have managed to pack even more features into a tiny package. Despite the posts compaining about the large size, with all the stuff that's crammed into this thing it is tiny. This is a technological marvel, to be sure but, let's look at it from a slightly different angle.

This thing is primarily supposed to be a phone. It can do so much more but, it is supposed to be a phone. As such, it is a very poor phone as are all of the Motorola ixxxx series. Its design is not at all ergonomic. It doesn't fit well against the face and its ear piece is angled such that it does not cover the ear. This means that it is difficult to hear in a noisy environment, such as a moving vehicle. Pressing the ear piece against the ear tightly enough to develop a seal is extremely uncomfortable and also puts a great deal of stress on the hinges. This very frequently leads to the cracking or break of the flimsy hinges.

The reception quality of these phones has changed very little. Frequently, calls are garbled or dropped completely. This is especially true when using the two way "Direct Connect" feature. These two way converstations often are interrupted by @#$@!&*%$#%@##^%@@#$@&^%%&. Very annoying.

There is also the issue of the beeps when using the two way mode. Even when you select to turn off the speaker and use the two way like a regular phone, there is a very loud beep if the other caller takes more than a couple of seconds to respond. This beep not only negates the point of turning off the speaker so as not to disturb the people around you, it is also deafening when the phone is held to the ear.

Then there is the key pad. The keys are small, naturally. But, they are also flush with the case, almost recessed, which makes dialing difficult. Not to mention the convoluted key presses necessary to use the gee whiz features that they keep adding. Countless other phones, especially Nokia, have much better buttons to allow easier dialing. Also, many phones offer voice activated dialing, eliminating the need to dial completely.

To be frank, there are only two redeeming features of this phone from a usability stand point. One of course is the "Direct Connect" feature, for obvious reasons. The other is the speaker phone feature. This allows half duplex hands free speaker phone use for cellular calls. This is an excellent and very usable feature that few other cell phones offer.

The gee whiz aspect of these phones is very high but, they seem to forget that this is a phone! I'd really like to see these companies, especially Motorola, invest some more time into increasing the reliabilty, usability, ergonomics and durability of these devices. These things are portable. That means they are going to get banged around. They are small and WILL get dropped from time to time.

If I wanted toast I'd buy a toaster. I don't need my phone to make toast, regarless of how cool it is that they can make it do that. I wanted a phone. I wanted to make phone calls and that is why I bought a phone. Make my phone calls better and I'll be very happy. Everything else is just fluff and is often an annoyance.

Re:when will someone develop the advanced technolo

[swb]

Do they make phones that can actually take a real sample for ringtone, or is it just a bunch of MIDI-style notes programming?

If you could get a sample, you could actually put in a sample of a real Bell telephone ringing, which might be pretty amusing.

i85s

[Paladin814]

I have the older i85s model, which is almost the same phone but does not flip and is not in colour.

The first question I asked myself when I heard about this phone is, why is this in colour? One might think that it will allow you to view colour pictures with the web browser, but all iDen phones including this one support text only web browsing. I guess the very high price tag for the colour screen might be justified if colour games/apps are important to you.

Living in Windsor, Ontario Canada, the biggest feature to using Telus Mike / Nextel as a phone carrier is free long distance into the US. My local calling area is from Lansing, MI all the way to Chatham, Ontario, no LD no roaming charges. Not bad if you work accross the border or make a lot of phone calls to/from there. I am told Nextel has the same deal for calling into Canada.

The only caveat to the i85s I noticed is that the battery life was over stated. I can not even get 24 hrs of standby. The other is Telus does not support downloading Java apps to the phone or syncing the PDA with your home computer, features that they keep telling me will be available soon (it's been a year now). I hear it works great if you use Nextel in the US though.

Actually an AWESOME idea!

[NDPTAL85]

I have a Kyocera Smartphone which is also a Palm Pilot. It has about 5 hours of talk time and 100 hours of standby time. It also has an extra battery for the PDA that keeps the PDA going for 1 day after the cell phone battery dies. But really, if you can't remember to plug in your phone each night you've got problems. But since its also a PDA why not just set an alarm/apointment to remind you to plug it in everynight!?!?!

And yes you can synch it with a PC, via cable or infra red port.

http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/kysmart/kysmart_ se ries.htm --- What I have

http://www.kyocera-wireless.com/showroom/showcas e/ coming_soon.htm --- The upgraded model of mine which I lust over

Re:Actually an AWESOME idea!

[OneFix]

5 hours of talk time and 100 hours of standby time.

Yea, but your phone is also 8 ounces which a little bigger than my cell phone (4 ounces...which is rather heavy anyhow). And belive it or not, that's a rather heavy size for a handheld phone that's going to cost $400 to replace!!!

On the other hand, my phone is well under $100 and even comes free with some services...

The other advantage of my phone is that the screen is rather tough...versus my Palm's touch screen which is rather "fragile".

For the $400 that you pay for one of those, I can buy my phone, and an new color Palm for the same price. And still have some $$$ left over for a nice case, a li-ion battery, and a few months of service.

if you can't remember to plug in your phone each night you've got problems.

Really? Well, I guess you're right then, because I still forget to take it out of my coat pocket...which brings me to another point...I don't guess it's very easy to fins accessories for this phone (cases, chargers, batteries, etc).

And as far as I can tell, that's still got to be fairly small compared to the screen on my Palm IIIxe.

As well, if I'm not mistaken, there have been complaints about the phone portion of that phone being of poor quality, poor integration with the PDA portion, etc. That's just the point, it's hard to do everything in one device...some thing has to suffer or the thing is going to be too expensive. Which yours is, but it still has problems. I don't doubt that you like your phone, just that alot of us don't see it the same way.

Re:Actually an AWESOME idea!

[NDPTAL85]

My phone was $99 with a mail in rebate. The phone part of this particular phone is awesome. Maybe you've heard about the other Palm/Cell combos such as the Handspring Treo units or the Samsung units. THEY'RE the ones that have the poor integration and phone performance. The Kyocera units are awesome in every regard. The integration between cellphone and PDA is 100%. If I thumb thru my contact list and want to send an email to one of my contacts it tells me to open the flip so that I can use the Eudora mail client.

My leather clip case only cost $24. It came with a synch cradle. The next version of the phone weighs 6-7 ounces, has a color screen, built in MP3 player and a memory card slot. The screen is a bit smaller than a regular PDA but thats not really a problem for me. Other than that this phone has no compromises. Kyocera actually knows what they're doing.

whiny americans

[ywwg]

why is it whenever there's a thread about new cell phones, the first thing I always see is americans bitching about how they just want to talk? Duh, if you just want to talk on your cell phone, just get a 5year old used nokia, that'll work fine.

for the rest of us who actually embrace new technology, I want a color display, ir for palm pilot syncing, fast sms capability, gprs for data transfer and fast web service.

I don't understand the reluctance for people on slashdot, a site devoted to the latest computer hardware and software, to get into sweet cellphones. It's like everyone's running around with linux laptops looking for free 802.11 nets, enjoying their massive storage mp3 or md player, developing new cool software, and talking on three pound analog cell phones from the late 80s. why is this?

my theory is that people are just jealous of the phones that everyone else in the world can get, and so they get defensive and pretend they don't want any of that. It sucks for america to be behind in some cases, huh?

Arrgh...it's not an OS

[Anonymous Coward]

J2ME is not an OS. It's a virtual machine used to run Java apps.

I considered the i95cl - why not a Ericsson T68i?

[PatJensen]

I have Nextel currently with an i50sx. I like the service, works great for work. I looked at the i95cl, but price to performance wise Motorola's have a huge total cost of ownership with little feature parity with newer phones.

Check this out, a $399 Motorola i95cl gets you:

• A color display, with no programmable color themes, no picture caller ID and no image upload. (maybe in an upgrade they say.)
• A nice Java Virtual Machine with some downloadable applications from Mot/Nextel.
• Two-way, and the rest of the Nextel iDEN features.

But, a $199 Sony Ericsso T68i on AT&T gets you:

• Bluetooth AND Infrared.
• GPRS and a color graphic-supported microbrowser.
• A color display with uploadable themes, images, ringers, animations, screen savers.
• Killer talk and standby times
• Synchronization capable

Anyways, I just ordered a T68i from AT&T Wireless GSM. They are in the process of building out their GSM coverage, but I think it's worth it to be an early subscriber and taking advantage of lower phone and monthly costs. One thing about Nextel, is their rates are expensive!

-Pat

Off-topic but I need to know:

[DiscoOnTheSide]

Anyone know where I can find a T68i for under $250? I see ppl talking about getting one for $150 (I would assume American $'s, thus they're in the country) and what service would support it. Would voicestream (or T-Mobile, whatever) allow me to just get a SIM card from them that'll work with any GSM phone I can buy?

Re:Off-topic but I need to know:

[Vegeta99]

AT&T sells thgem for $200 down to about $150. Dunno about a lock, but you can get them unlocked. VoiceStream WILL sell you a SIM afaik, but ATTWS will not.

It was predictable

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been predicting the convergence of the cell
phone and the PDA for a long time. I expect the
cell phone and PDA to disappear as separate
products, with the possible exception of niche
markets, e.g., people who demand the minimum
footprint and have no need for anything other
than voice communications.

Too bad you can't trust Nextel.

[Anonymous Coward]

"You didn't really think your evening hours would start at 8pm forever, did you?"

"You don't mind if we get rid of that pesky to-the-second billing, do you? It's so much easier to just round up to the next minute."

"Why, yes, these changes apply to your account even though you're still locked into your one or two year contract. Why, no, we don't care that you agreed to stay with us for one or two years based on the services we were offering when you signed up."

It's a good thing my contract with those bastards was almost over when they started pulling that crap. Why pay twice as much money if they're not going to provide the service you bought through the length of your contract?

Keyboard

[fm6]

I'll buy one when it has a real keyboard. Ever try sending a message on a keypad? MAJOR pain in the ass. You can use chat-shorthand to send message to friends, but replying to business email? Where is the spll chker?

That kind of cell phone already exists. But there's no free lunch here -- such a phone will not slip into a normal pants pocket!

In countries where SMS is popular, many people can type quite fast using a phone keypad. It's just a matter of practice.

Re:Keyboard

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd rather have the TREO 180 , its just alittle bigger then a Startac and it has a keypad

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/deta il /-/wireless/B00005V9E0/pictures/3/104-3801622-3536 736#more-pictures

Re:when will someone develop the advanced technolo

[superpeach]

I think Nokia have decided people dont want 'normal' tones anymore. I used to have a nokia 6150, it had about 6 non-musicy ringtones out of 20. then a nokia 8210, with 4 normal out of about 30. Now I have a nokia 6310, and it only had 2 normal ones out of 35.
Looks like the future is annoying everyone nearby with your horrible sounding rendition of a popular 80s song - or so Nokia seem to think.

A great review

[Faeton]

A great review, that was done about a month and a half ago is here

www.Howardchui.com has great phone news and reviews, plus an active forum

from the it-fluffs-it-folds dept.

[SkulkCU]

from the it-fluffs-it-folds dept.

Fluffs? I'm getting one right away...

(sorry - I apologize for that.)

Re:when will someone develop the advanced technolo

[beddess]

exactly.

i just switched up to the v60. one of the few
things anyone reviewing it had was 'no games' and
'no downloadable ring tones'.

which is funny, since those are plusses for me.

Java OS

[uzhappali]

It runs Symbian OS not Java OS.
It runs a J2ME VM on symbian.

Ericsson, Nokia and Motorola, all have color phones with java VM. You can download midilets into these phones.

Ericsson -T68
Nokia -- Communicator 9210, 6610
now Motorola

try the XDA pocket pc phone!

[baxterux]

really the motorolla sux if u comapre it to this! u have a real PDA and a phone with gprs and all the stuff! http://www.mahdoom.com/modules.php?name=News&file= article&sid=43&mode=&order=0&thold =0

Just another "wannabe"

[Andy Dodd]

In trying to avoid OS licensing fees, Motorola has shot themselves in the foot.

"Java-based OS" - While it may technically be cool, it's basically useless. An OS is as good as its applications, which means that unless you're using PalmOS or (dare I say it) Windows Crack Enhanced, you're dead in the water compared to the competition. No one is going to want to pay $$$ for a large phone that's NOT compatible with the majority of PDAs out there. (How many people have PDAs that are not PalmOS or WinCE? Not many. Linux PDAs are cool, but PalmOS is still the best in the market for PDAs in my opinion.)

Someone noted that the battery life listed for this is crap compared to most other phones - another reason this is "wannabe" that will never truly succeed. For many people, battery life is EVERYTHING. This is why I will NEVER touch a color-display phone. Motorola tried the integrated StarTac/PDA before, no one I knew bought it.

On the other hand, there's the Kyocera Smartphone 6035, which I have and I LOVE. It has killer battery life, runs all PalmOS apps, etc. It's bigger than a phone, yes. But considering I was carrying around a Palm III and a phone all the time before, it's a big improvement.

Kyocera's next-gen phone (Due out in Sept-Oct) is color (unfortunately), PalmOS based, has a larger screen in a smaller phone. (It's a flip phone and the graffiti area is on the keypad portion while the screen is on the main body. kewl. Something like those nextgen Palm concept designs that looked like the Graffiti area pulled out from inside the unit.)

Samsung's Palm-based phone is also far better than this thing and is Out There already, despite bad things I've heard about its abilities as a phone. (The review of it I saw indicated you have to dial the number on the touchscreen itself - screen fingerprints ahoy!)

I believe there are also some WinCE phones out there too, which will blow away any proprietary OS for phone use - Still not something I'd buy since CE devices are generally not known for good battery life.

Re:when will someone develop the advanced technolo

[Anonymous Coward]

StarTac's are awesome. They have a style difficult to find in cell phones nowadays: Large enough to not be annoyingly small, extremely professional looking, and a design that still looks at least two years ahead of its time. I'm going to get one of the newer StarTac models for use with a flat rate CDMA provider.

Use Java SIM Card (Re:groan....)

[kalim]

You can transfer your addresses, etc. The SIM card (a smartcard that is probably a javacard) can be moved from phone to phone. It's located in the back of the Motorola phones, about the size of a small fingernail.