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Transgaming's WineX 2.1 - Supports WarCraft 3
friedmud writes "WineX 2.1 is out on the street, get it at transgaming.com. It boasts, among other things, full support for Warcraft III. Other games now included are: Grand Theft Auto 3, Civilization III, and Black and White. Check the press release for further info. And, if you haven't already, go here to get an account... It is definitely worth it." I've been rebooting my laptop to
WC3, so maybe I'll give this a shot. I bought a subscription originally
in part due to their misleading Sims compatibility claims, but this looks like
it finally is truly emulating top windows games.
I've been eagerly anticipating support for GTA3. It's what I'll go to once I finish Baldur's Gate 2 until Neverwinter Nights is released (which will probably be in 2004).
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
How about Outlook XP and M$'s Remote Desktop Client?
Then I could secretly run Licoris at the office an nobody'd would be the wiser!
(aaand it would keep everybody from mucking around with my workstation.)
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Soon, there will be as many games that you can play on Linux as there are games that you can play on Macintosh!
I had been mucking with the main wine tree after reading in the Wine Weeky News that people were getting WarCraft III working under wine, but I have only been able to install and start the menu screen, which comes up MINIMIZED. Damn!
But now WineX supports my 2 favourite games: Black & White and Warcraft III I can uninstall Windows 2k!
I already have MS Word & Excel installed into a no-windows wine installation which works very well.
Man, wine is starting to get really freaking good! I just wish the Wine developers and Codeweavers could get along & share code more freely with Transgaming, but they have some differing ideas about licensing. Oh well. I'm gonna save up and get that WineX. BABY!
Why is this game so popular? It really isn't any different that other RTS, other than its more 3D.
You all bitch and moan about lack of innovation in gaming, then go out and buy the exact opposite.
And, yeah, I'm prepared to fight back against anyone that wants to argue how 'innovative' WC3 is.
Hmm. Time to up the student loan again for a new Linux laptop! Woo HOo!
Dad? It's me . . .
warcraft 3 has worked with winehq wine as far back as the warcraft 3 beta, see this post to the wine-devel mailing list.
Linux has less than a 2% desktop share. Unless Linux gamers are willing to pay $500 for a native game, it's a money losing opportunity.
The only companies who will release Linux games are those that really really rely on geek support (like Id)
But on the bright side, just about everyone has come around to the conclusion that releasing Linux servers for their games is a good idea.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
...but I still can't get it to play any perverted japanese video games. Ah well, C'est la vie.
TransGaming has done some wonderful things. Their technology is truly helping Linux to be useful in more situations by allowing Windows games to run.
It's really too bad that TransGaming is not a good citizen of the open source community. Their decision to keep their ActiveX libraries proprietary while happily making use of other people's work (the base Wine code) perfectly exhibits the "what's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine" abuse that BSD-like licenses can allow. And TransGaming's decision to fork the Wine code when it went LGPL is another example of this company's lack of respect for the cooperation that makes open source projects work.
I'll support CodeWeavers but I won't support TransGaming. When you take from Wine, you give back to Wine, dammit. A balkanized Wine might provide short-term profit to TransGaming, but it delays that day in the future when all Windows software runs seamlessly on Linux.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
I guess since they're not stifling compatability with DMCA lawsuits this week, it's ok to spend $70 (CDN) on their software and fund their lawyers! Thanks anyways...I'll keep my WineX subscription, but I'll only buy games from developers that don't screw us.
do not read this line twice.
I hear the MS guys are making a Linux emulator for Win32. It's called Beer 3.2. The reasoning is, Beer is more popular than Wine so it will appeal to a broader user base. Women tend to like Wine better but Men overwhelmingly prefered Beer in product testing. Beer 3.2 is still a beta, and will be released when it's content reaches version 5.0.
There are 01 kinds of cars in the world. The General Lee, and everything else.
OTOH, Transgaming and WineHQ have been trying to figure out ways so that TG can give kickbacks to WineHQ in terms of code.
Karma whorin' since 1999
Infact it's even better than that for some reasons.
1. Graphic cards are getting faster and faster and all games can be played in emulator with normal speed
2. You can have games separated from your system, just like a console
3. Just checked WineX game installer. It can completely separate every game to it's own drive. No bugging, just delete game folder and that's it.
All of this points cover most of the problems by playing games on windows. So that's a reason to support that
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
> The only companies who will release Linux games are those that really really rely on geek support (like Id).
I think that you misattributed Id's actions with a need to "really, really rely" on geek support. That's total baloney. Id doesn't need a Linux geek any more than any of the other video game companies. Not only are their games incredibly popular in their own right, but do you know how MUCH Id makes licensing their engines?! Try to name all of the games that licensed the Quake I, II, and III engines. We'll be here for a while.
Here's a bit of info for you... all of Id's games since Quake have supported Unix/Linux because... That's what quake was DEVELOPED on! The original quake was developed under Unix using OpenGL. It was then ported to Windows. I'd imagine that they had similar processes for their subsequent games (Quake II, Quake III, Return to Castle Wolfenstein). So "supporting" a Linux "port" was a no-brainer.
Don't get me wrong. I love the fact that you can buy native Linux versions of their games, but to say that they "really really need you" is a delusional fantasy.
Actually WineX is a very good idea for supporting Linux. Even in the rare cases where linux is still on the desktop most people maintain a windows partition for gaming. Something like WoneX will allow them to move over to pure linux. This wil help spread linux, you CAN use all your M$ software still and you get all this all this great other linux stuff, you haev nothing to lose! Furthermore as more people start to use WineX and like products the game manufacturers will start to notice this market share and try to make sure their game doesn't do anything cookey (did I spell that right) that would make it unusable under WineX. As this happens linux becomes more popular and continues to grow in market share until finally companies find they can get an edge by offering native linux games instead of stuff running over a compatibility layer. Now you get you linux games, I very much believe Wine and WineX are one of the best weapons linux has to take the desktop.
I stole this Sig
I'm at a loss here. WarCraft III? After the bnetd business? Hmm. Blizzard must be like Sony: we only boycott them between product releases.
It's a bit sad. I guess this in some way shows how we will never win against corporations. The average person here seems to hold on to his principles until shown a new toy.
I have little faith in humanity; so it's not like I am disapointed, but I can't help but being mad at those who can't seem to stick to their own principles for more than a few minutes...
In my opinion, Scientology is a cult you should avoid.
I just wish the same level of effort went in to providing compatibility for Windows apps that are desperately needed on the Linux desktop -- like Quicken.
Games are important, but Linux is still seriously lacking in the finance department. Getting Quicken to work it would do more for long term usability of the OS.
...emulating top windows games...
#Wine Is Not an Emulator.
s/emulating/supporting
#If Wine gets good enough, we won't even have
#to call them windows games anymore.
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our American dead!
... And we all saw what happened to OS/2, which ran many MS Windows 3.1 applications better than Windows 3.1 did.
But Linux is not about gaming; gamers end up selling their souls one way or another, so why worry?
Have you looked at what's available for the Mac? All Blizzard games are hybrid now, plus most OpenGL games have been ported. That's about ten times as many (good) games as Linux. All you really need is Diablo II, Civ 3, and Unreal Tournament, anyways.
It's too bad that Blizzard doesn't like Linux, but that's why I bought a Mac.
Running Windows apps is a cool stopgap, but in the long haul I'd like to see more native ports and fresh applications. I can never decide if Wine is a good idea and/or necessary.
I know it's a bit off topic, as we're discussing games under WineX, but is it possible to get something like PowerDVD or WinDVD to run under WineX, and getting them to run properly (with DMA access to drives etc)?
...
:-)
I've been trying to get Ogle running under Mandrake, and I can play dvds from any region which is cool and all, but the sound often goes out of sync and stuff like that.
I've also been trying to get Miranda ICQ running under Wine, but that requires a new version, and I can't get that running, cause I'm a d0rk when it comes to linux
What I wouldn't give for a "Window-esque" installer-wizard, that just *works*
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
And now that I think of it... wasn't NWN supposed to be released native under linux? So why do you need WineX for it?
An interesting race... WineX emulation, vs the developers at Bioware.. who can make it run first..?
Tibbon
tibbon.com
WineX will not work with SCSI drives and copy-protected CDs. Every new release has something about how SCSI support has improved, is fixed, etc, but it never seems to work. If you check their forums you'll see what I mean. Most every issue is marked "fixed", with the solution seemingly always being a symlink or some such. It's not fixed as of the last release.
Does anyone know if they got it fixed this time? I tried to check the release notes at http://downloads.transgaming.com/files/winex-2_1-r eleasenotes.txt, but got a 500 error (on a .txt file no less). If the SCSI issues are fixed, then I'm gladly subscribing again. If not, I'm saving my money and keeping my new dual-boot setup.
If you have SCSI drives, make sure you investigate this before giving them any money or you'll likely have paid for nothing. I don't think SCSI support is real high on their support list. It's been broken for almost a year, after all...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Issued on Wednesday April 17, 2002
Play Warcraft III on Linux with TransGaming's Release of WineX 2.1
Issued on Thursday August 1, 2002
TransGaming subscriptions cost $5 per month, with a minimum three months payment.
It's been just over three months since the last major release. Coincidence?
Wine is an emulator...
emulate
1. To strive to equal or excel, especially through imitation: an older pupil whose accomplishments and style I emulated.
2. To compete with successfully; approach or attain equality with.
3. Computer Science. To imitate the function of (another system), as by modifications to hardware or software that allow the imitating system to accept the same data, execute the same programs, and achieve the same results as the imitated system.
Just because I claim not to be a 26 year old male doesn't mean that I'm not 26 year old male. Just because WINE claims not to be an emulator doesn't mean that it's not an emulator.
That was the 2004 reference, Bioware hasn't been giving out too much info on when the linux client will be released. So now there's a bunch of linux users who bought the NWN games a month ago and are mad because they don't know when it will be released..that's why I'm waiting to buy it after the Linux version is out.
"I told you a million times not to exaggerate!"
www.eFax.com are spammers
First of all, WINE is not GPL, but LGPL, which is a fairly easy license to honor. TransGaming claims that because its copy protection code is not modular, it can't abide by the LGPL. I think if WINE had been LGPLed to start with, TransGaming would have designed accordingly.
As for making money with the GPL, the dual license is the most successful, as in Qt, GhostScript, and CUPS. This requires, of course, owning all the copyright.
I should lighten up. I know it. And I know you're not saying Linux has more games developed for it than the Macintosh...but I so don't find the comment above funny for two reasons.
1. We Mac users have been on the short end of the gaming stick since the mid-90s and although things have improved tremendously and will likely improve even more, we will almost certainly never have complete pairity with the Windows world...and that truth still stings occasionally.
2. I've grown tired of Linux users acting like the latest distro is taking over the world, challenging Redmond for the desktop, gaining marketshare hand over fist, is way more relevant and popular than the Macintosh...so much so that Macintosh influence, relevance and desktop presence is openly ridiculed...when the real story is that while Linux is a phenomenon like no other, it has virtually no desktop presence at all and the development of commercial applications for it is virtually nil. Marketshare in the "NAT box in my coat closet", absolutely. Marketshare for "Web server for my mid-sized company," sure. "Render farm for a movie FX house," yes indeed. CL-based, opensource, free sysadmin widgets developed for it? Tons. But top-shelf games developed for it? Please.
Note: All flames must include 3 URLs of commercial, million-copy-selling games available for Linux and not for the Macintosh. Emulation doesn't count for either camp.
And by the way I've been playing WC3 since the day it came out right on the OS of my choice without rebooting anything. So there.
*whew*
Going to try to relax now.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
Why not roll your own with FreeCraft?
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
"Diablo II, Civ 3, and Unreal Tournament should be enough for anyone"
-- Elbereth, 2002
Do those games run with 640K?
You have an interesting point. About the only thing that tempts me to use Windows 2000 anymore is the beauty of MOH:AA (That game is just too great). Linux support for it is pretty sucky under Wine.
We all knoew that the OpenGL implementations in Linux are excellent. What is holding developers back from spending a little extra time to release unsupported Linux binaries? It is kinda disappointing. A week or two of coding can produce more game sales. What is the problem here?
I like the concepts of Wine and will probably subscribe to Transgaming for WineX, but what does this leave use with? It is just a temporary alternative to proper Linux binaries that run correctly. I don't want Wine to become an excuse for the developers lack of interest in multi-platform software.
Wine is nice, but it will never be as good as the real thing, unless we have more acess to the native Windows code. Microsoft knows this, and it is what makes it really difficult to develop proper libraries for running Windows software.
Maybe you could try something like Kapital, which has a lot of the features of Quicken. It's only $25 right now, but is still in a pre-release status (You get free upgrades for 4 months after it is officially released).
http://www.thekompany.com/products/kapital/
I would subscribe to Transgaming, if I got a legally binding promise, that the code I bought were released to LGPL after 1 year.
That way Transgaming could make a profit and after a while the opensource wine (minus CopyProtection) would always enable playing one year old games.
But just paying Transgaming to develop their proprietary software until eternity sounds like software assurance to me.
Moritz
That is such a good point. I don't think it's doing Linux any long-term favors to have Windows-developed games work in it. In fact, it's a dis-incentive for game developers to write for Linux!
Along those same lines I've often thought Linux gaming is doomed from the start simply because almost all Linux hardware is capable of running Windows...and thus all Linux gamers are dual-booting into Windows already. The Game developer has two choices. They can either A) Develop for Linux and sell a million games or B) Not develop for Linux...and sell the same million games to the same people who will just reboot to play it. Sales are the same in either case, development costs are less in scenario A. Is it any wonder that they're choosing option A? At least developing for the Macintosh has the potential to get addition sales that you would not have been able to get otherwise.
Another scenario is the oft-discussed idea that someone should port DirectX to the Macintosh. I think this would be terrible. The Mac platform would forever be at the whim and mercy of Redmond. I can see it now...All game developers abandon more open, standard APIs in favor of "having it work everywhere with DX." Of course not all features are actually available on the Mac, but hey, it's good enough right? Pretty soon other APIs die out, developers have tons invested in DX code...then it starts to happen. DirectX 11 comes out for Windows and the Mac version is at 9.1...When asked when the new version will come out for the Macintosh they say they have no plans at present to bring it there at all because "their customers dont' want it" or some bullshit.
Then the Mac game scene is more screwed than it was in 95. A similar scenario could easily curtail Linux game development before it's really even begun.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
"Emulators always slow things down, that's why they're best for older games"
You're assuming wine emulates thw whole system, which it does not. it simply executes the program (same cpu => little/no translation), and wraps the windows api calls to something unix can deal with.
"Whining"? I was warning, you nitwit. As in "They keep saying SCSI support is fixed with each new release, but check before you pay money because it hasn't been fixed in the past..." That's whining exactly how? I bet you wouldn't think it was whining if you had SCSI hardware.
And how do you equate this to me getting new hardware? Where the hell did you get that one?! I have certain hardware. Transgaming said their software works on that hardware. I paid money, installed said software, and found that it doesn't work. I repeated this cycle three times. I don't care what the freaking drives cost, I have my own freaking hardware already freaking installed that WineX is supposed to freaking work on but freaking won't.
Normally I don't respond to ACs, but your response was especially inane. And it reminds me again why I shouldn't bother...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Loki has had an LGPL installer for a long time that does what you ask.
http://www.lokigames.com/development/setup.php3
And there are others. You just have to look. I also have hopes that the Nullsoft NSIS (PiMP/SuperPiMP) starts to see some ports. It is released under the zlib/libpng license.
A lot of people would doubt the possibility of something like that working, because a lof od people doubt the abilitiy of precompiled binaries in Linux. Personally, I see nothing wrong with precompiled binaries for Linux that are installed by binary installers. Every X86 Linux binary installer that I have ever used has worked great. Opera, Netscape, Limewire, StarOffice/OOo., and Linux game binaries. Never had a problem with any of them. I love tar.gz sources, but graphic installers are nice too.
Yeah? I saw Quake 3 for linux in the limited edition metal box for CAD$9.99 a few days ago an an electronis boutique. I think id proved that geek support for linux gaming is not strong enought yet to make it profitable.
How does the speed compare to running it under windows?
I don't have the fastest machine but if the speed isn't much worse, I might be interested in trying it out.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Actually, it depends on how you want to write your game. If you want to use all Micro$lop's native API libraries, then yes.. it would be nasty to try and then port it to other platforms without a good guarentee of ROI.
OTOH, if you write using universal libraries that are available for all platforms (OpenGL, etc.) then it becomes a matter of writing a little bit of glue for each new platform and cross-compiling.
Plan ahead or fall behind... your choice.
"1. Graphic cards are getting faster and faster and all games can be played in emulator with normal speed"
Wine Is Not an Emulator
LEXX
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
There will be none. Blizzard declared on numerous occasions that they won't allow any third party to port it and they don't plan to port it themselves "at this time" - which is an euphemism for "ever".
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
The patcher comes up nicely. It downloads and installs all the new files. Unfortunately when it goes to actually play the game it throws out a 'Direct Keyboard" error and exits.
It's an improvement, but it's got a way to go.
Somebody did some benchmarks, and WineX is really really SLOW.
I believe you, since you capitalized the word "slow".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bioware, like most other 'here's a linux client' companies, requires you to buy the Windows version anyway and will allow you to download the linux binaries when they're released.
If game companies would start porting their games to Linux, then all of that would change. Companies like id are a catylist for this, and it will no doubt help speed things up for more ports for other companies... However, a commercial game for *only* Linux would be stupid... But if you build your program from the start with the intent for it to be modular, and easily ported to multiple platforms, then you've killed two birds with one stone. You can sell the game to Windows and Linux gamers, and make profits on both. Linux users will increase, and the number of games will too.
So why hasn't EA decided to port MOH:AA to Linux. Their game is built off of an engine that is proven to run great (faster) in Linux? The truth is, that they don't care.
Companies like Nullsoft have decided to make a more multi-platform library, which will make ports a snap. Wasabi is a great idea, and though the current implementation into Winamp 3 looks a litle sluggish, it will improve with time. Winamp 3 will be coming to Linux right after the Windows version. From what Nullsoft says, new releases should be simultaneous.
Here, they lose nothing. No doubt, some XMMS users will switch. I personally think that I will use Winamp 3 instead of XMMS. It just sounds better to my ears (more crisp with less distortion. Better seperation of certain frequencies. This comparison was with the most recent version of XMMS, and the most recent versions of Winamp under WINE). I like having the choice. I like having more commerical apps available for Linux every day. If done right, writing software for multiple platforms is easy to do. And coding Linux binaries takes very little time.
If you have a Windows audience, then what harm is there in broadening your audience?
I purchased a year long stay with WineX from Transgaming around 4-5 months back. Unfortunately I realized through personal experience that WineX, while a novel idea for a company, is inherently flawed for online games you might want to play.
Counter-Strike. I got to play this game for all of 4 days before Valve's Anti-Cheat code kicked in on the servers, and I've never been able to play under Wine or WineX again. We heard over and over again that a fix was in the works... just wait for the next release... etc... Well months later the next release is here and from the looks of the forums - no fix.
I'd see this as being a problem for not only C-S, but just about any other game that might involve hack/cheat checks in grapihcs code, or file structure, or libraries in general.
Still. The Transgaming folks (Gavriel!) have done an excellent job getting the cream of the crop working fairly well under Linux. Just don't expect your games to work through every patch.
http://windows.scares.us
Actually, if you throw WineX on there, the game support is about equal. And you get a few necessary goodies like Counter-Strike that you can't play on the Mac. Thus far, I've had good luck with WineX. Warcraft III runs exceptionally well (even with 2.01) except for being a bit slower and having some mouse pointer issues that are likely resolved with this release.
Even so, a fast PC can make up for the emulation slowdown, and I'd rather deal with a few nusances every once in a while than a big nusance like Windows. WineX probably wouldn't be a good choice for a casual user who wouldn't want to worry about tweaking things and having to look at the message boards to make sure his next purchase will work, but it's fine for a geek like me.
On the whole, I can play most of the games I want like Q1/2, CS, and War3 competitively and that's all I'm looking for.
And linux is not an operating system, it's a kernel. So what? Do we have to be that pedantic?
In fact, they had stated that the linux client would be released in the box with the windoze client and the mac client. Didn't happen. So, they said "sorry, linux client is delayed, will be available for download shortly after the windoze release"
'shortly' has been almost a month so far, and news have it that the coders working on it will be back next week from vacation.. so some of us are still waiting for the darn thing with an useless set of cds on our hands.
The problem here is that Bioware didn't say "ok we'll have it for download as soon as we finish it".. they said "It'll be released simultaneously and in the same box". They couldn't comply. fine, but don't come telling us that you'll have it done shortly after release, then take a month to come up with "coders are on vacation, will get on it pronto". At least a decent status update would be fine, be it by mail, forum, a section in their site, whatever.
"Luck is my middle name," said Rincewind, indistinctly. "Mind you, my first name is Bad." -- Terry Pratchett
It is suspected (but not known) that this authorization is somehow conditional upon using tools licensed by DVDCCA. But DVDCCA also apparently have severe technical restrictions they impose upon their licensees, such as obeying region restrictions, macrovision-encoding video output, and not haveing firewire outputs. So you really think that using a DVD player application in an alien environment (a Windows emulator) is going to be within those restrictions? If so, then your faith is strong indeed!
There is little reason to believe that using PowerDVD is more legal than using applications that use libcss.
The only thing that makes it legal or not, is whether or not you have their permission. In the end, their agreements with third parties such a DVDCCA or the company who made a computer application or an electronic appliance for watching DVDs, are irrelevant. What matters is what agreement that have with you. And you don't have a single scrap of evidence to support any claim that you have permission to watch any DVD that you own. The most obvious evidence -- that they sold you the DVD and therefore you obviously have implicit permission -- has already been shot down by Kaplan.
Effort expended on playing DVDs "legally", is a waste of time. As long as DMCA remains law and DVDs do not come with EULAs that give people permission to watch or explain conditions under which they have permission to watch, it will never be provably legal for anyone to watch a CSS-protected DVD. It doesn't matter if you use xine, PowerDVD, or a Sony DVD player.
If you are "constantly trying to piss off the various copyright holder coorporations" then you have to give up DVDs altogether. Because if they really do get pissed off at you, they can nail you on this technicality. And the 2600 case proves they are willing.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Currently game developers arent developing for linux because theres no market.
Theres no market because theres no games.
WineX brings games which brings gamers to linux, bringing the market.
The market eventually brings native ports.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Unfortunately, most of the slashdot crowd are kiddies who've never actually played with real emulators that you had described. They are unaware of the underlying CPU architecture, so they would not understand why a a Windows x86 binary would not run on Wine with Linux on a Mac.
I bought it before I made my complete switch to Linux... And, I miss that game.
But life goes on.
But, when are they going to support EverCrack? It's one of my final windows excuses, but the habit is too hard to break!
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
pah! how many native windows games can you give a 5 out of 5 reliability rating running under Windows?
sic transit gloria mundi
Games like Warcraft never interested me. Number one task for WineX is best game of 2001 - Civilization 3.
Few weeks ago I downloaded CVS snapshot as usual, and - as usual - tested Civ3. But first time ever - Civilization3 worked in Wine. I played few hours with only one problem - lines in F4 view (peca/war/etc) weren't visible. So I've asked on comp.emulators.ms-windows.wine, but nobody answered. Then I updated my CVS snapshot and... from this time Civ3 never worked again. When I click "New Game" - nothing happens.
I just haven't got time to back to old version (AFAIK it's possible with CVS), so I am asking here - is Civ3 working for you in WineX? (it could be something wrong on my system)
There is a
forum but nobody wrote yet, that Civ3 is working for him/her.
I know this isn't exactly related to gaming but one thing I cannot get working on any version of WINE is direct parallel port access.
I've got am MPLAB ICE 2000 (in-circuit emulator that plugs into parallel port) and even though I've enabled the port= lines in the wine config, enabled read and write to those addresses and have the ppuser module loaded, WINE won't let me get direct access to my printer port. I've made sure that my WINE executable is executing su root too but no luck. :-(
Has anyone got this to work with any version of WINE?
The original poster based his argument on the fact that emulation results in lower performance. The person who replied was pointing out that this point is moot because wine is not an emulator, therefore the argument doesn't even apply to wine.
That aint being pedantic, that's telling someone they are wrong.
I'm getting sick of people having to explain this over and over again.
I propose that wine be renamed WINFE.
I agree.... WC3 isn't all that innovative, but honestly, I'm willing to bet that the majority of people playing it under WineX are also the folks who downloaded the ISO image off a newsgroup or copied it from a friend. In fact, considering Blizzard's poor attitude towards independent people developing gaming servers for the product - I'd have to say I'd condone/encourage that.
m l
The question isn't really "Why pay good money to support software that's not innovative?" (If you enjoy the game, then that should pretty much speak for itself. People buy the games they have fun playing - innovative or not.) The question here is, "Why pay to support a company that punishes developers of open source software that compliments the commercial product?"
http://www.isp-planet.com/news/2002/v_020411.ht
http://www.boycottblizzard.org/
Warcraft III is running using OpenGL in Linux. That game is running FASTER (please note my capitalized letters) than in Windows. I'm not kidding.
Ciryon
Nope, but it is true that they had been promising for close to 5 years that a Linux version would ship in the box.
I think transgaming is pretty sleasy. Originally, they promised to release the source as soon as they got 15,000 subscribers. They claimed to release it under a license "similar to the wine license." Now this is nowhere to be seen. I signed up because I thought their business model was an interesting idea, the "Street performers protocol." Now they seem to have renigged on this, after taking many peoples money under false pretenses.
If they can't release the code under the LGPL, how would they ever release it under a wine license? These guys are just crooks.
Gnuyen
I have already been playing it on linux for weeks now. For anyone who doesn't want to have to pay, try this howto (not, this howto DOESNT use the latest version of winex, but it has specific code that had to be removed because the author feared DMCA): http://www.transgaming.com/showthread.php?msg=1163 8&forum=6&thread=11638
p.s. I crash about once every 2 hours, and i get no graphical anomolies.
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
Since WC3 is available for Mac, i suppose its engine uses OpenGL. So what about a native Linux port?
Today's MacOS X apps do not get you much closer to Linux. MacOS X has two APIs, the most popular one today is Carbon. Carbon is a cleaned up version of the original Mac Toolbox/Quickdraw. When an app is written using the Carbon API it can be run under the BSD/Mach based MacOS X and the legacy proprietary MacOS 9.
Cocoa is MacOS X's other API and it is derived from NeXTStep. Targetting this API would get you very close to other *nix platforms but MacOS 9 would not be an option.
Developers are currently sticking to Carbon for two reasons. (1) They want to target MacOS 9. (2) They are leveraging legacy MacOS source code, libraries, and experience. Guestimates are that only 10% of older Mac source code has to be reworked to make it Carbon compatible.
Warcraft III also support OpenGL. Use "-opengl" on the command line.
Even in starcraft games between 2 cable modem users, it can get laggy
You lag problem is not battle.net. Starcraft games are peer-to-peer, battle.net is only involved when the game results are reported. If you are having lag it is you or the other guy.
Diablo II is client/server and server induced lag is possible.
Develop with WineX in mind? Not a good idea. First why limit your game for such a small niche? It is a better business decision to leverage all you can get out of Win32/DirectX regardless of WineX compatibility. You have to be highly competitive against all the other PC games first. Second, any compatibility problems will be rapidly addressed by WineX developers for you.
Get a real OS that runs 90% of the world's software and you won't have these problems.
I kind of doubt that 90% of the world's software is win32 code. Perhaps 90% of current commercial software packages, yes...but I'd be surprised if there were more lines of code out for Windows than UNIX OSes, once you take into account 30 years of coding done for UNIX, tons of research code written on UNIX, lots of UNIX code written in perl...
OTOH, VB frontends and inhouse tools probably account for the lion's share of Windows code, and that's quite a big chunk...
May we never see th
I mean, I create a mage that had only 4 hit points...
I take it that you aren't a big Dungeons & Dragons or zangband player.
May we never see th
And your evidence for saying that the respondants to the poll who answered "MS office" are the same as the people who bash MS is what exactly? Oh, that's right, you don't have any.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
I'm sure they would've released sooner, but all us regular subscribers have been chomping at the bit for War3 support (too bad I beat the game already). Shipping without War3 support would piss off way too many people.
And, if you can't afford 5$ a month, you should rethink your current career. I make practically nothing, but I can handle 100$ a year (CDN) no problem.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
But then for any particular scale N, the word "tactics" becomes just a pseudonym for "the strategy of N-1, the scale one smaller that the one I'm paying attention to." Which is tactic and which is strategy depends on what level of depth the speaker is talking about.
In an overly reductionist sort of way, yes. But the difference isn't a matter of "depth" but rather one of function. Tactics are the detailed plans that make an strategy work. One can concentrate on tactics just as much strategy, (this is the old "seeing the forest from the trees" problem) but ultimately you need both. At some levels stragegy can become tactics and vice-versa depending on what level you are looking at a problem from.
There is a trite (but true) old saying that amateurs study tactics while professionals study strategy. Think of it in a programming context. What makes a good programmer is not simply having memorized each of the commands, but having an overall framework in which to utilize them. Knowing some C++ is useless unless you also understand the concepts behind object-oriented programming. However knowing all the concepts is useless without some method (pun unintended) to implement them.
That $55 fuels the Linux development. Sure, you have to wait, but at least you're not a Mac user.
Has anyone that supports WINE actually given a thought to what happens if this is the way things go? Let me once again state the blindingly obvious timeline that WINE leads us to
1) WINE improves its windows emulation, more games work under Linux than ever before.
2) Development of native Linux games is pretty much destroyed by WINE emulation because the few porting companies struggling to survive at this early stage cannot hope to keep up with dozens of well funded windows development companies.
3) Emulated games become the norm. By definition they are slower than native, less reliable, but we can sacrifice reliability because we can play games NOW!
4) As Linux games are all now emulated, sales figures for Linux games are all showing up as Windows sales. Linux sales figures effectively become zero, giving no incentive for any software company to produce native ports.
5) Microsoft, who though evil are damned clever with their lawyers, finds a nice little legal way to kill WINE, through a patent issue, or some DMCA clone or who knows. WINE development stops.
6) New games stop running on Linux because WINE cant support DirectX 12 or whatever the latest version is. Nobody thinks to worry about it in the game development companies because Linux sales figures are zero (see 4).
7) Linux gets less games that will work. The companies that busted their balls trying to make native Linux gaming viable, companies like Tux Games, Loki and LGP have all long since gone.
8) With nobody left to support Linux gaming, Linux gaming dies.
9) With no new games, Linux desktop becomes less attractive and people happily move back to windows so they can play the latest games NOW (see 3)
10) Bill Gates sends thankyou letter to Transgaming and other WINE supporters.
Any questions?
Sure I am a biased party. That is because by founding Tux Games, I have put my money where my mouth is and bet the whole house on native Linux because unlike Transgaming, I BELIEVE THAT LINUX DOES NOT NEED TO USE WINDOWS AS A CRUTCH AND THAT LINUX IS A DAMNED FINE OS IN ITS OWN RIGHT..
Note: Tux Games has been offered time and again, the opportunity to carry Transgaming games. We are well aware that if we did so, we would make more money, but we STRONGLY believe in the above timeline threat, and so we put our morals where our mouth is and stand by Linux native. Want to do the same? Then dont inflate Windows sales figures, support those that are working all hours to bring YOU new products.
Tux Games. Your complete source for native Linux games.
Emulators always slow things down, that's why they're best for older games.
Well, it's a good thing Wine doesn't work by trying to emulate hardware then. It works by being a *replacement* for the Win32 library that maps calls to Linux operations rather than mapping them to Windows operations. That's why they're so adamant about drilling it into everyone's heads that "Wine Is Not an Emulator". It's merely a second implementation of the Windows API, not necessarily faster or slower than the original one you get with Windows. (In practice it is slower for some API calls and faster for others. Whether a program runs faster on Wine or Windows depends on which calls it uses.)
Wine is an "emulator" only in the same sense that Windows' TCP stack is an "emulator" of Unix's. It emulates the *idea* by reimplemeting it with fresh code.
Wine won't work on the 'wrong' hardware. It isn't emulating the CPU's instruction set. It's letting the binary run directly on the CPU just like it would for any native process. It's just that the CPU most often used with Linux happens to the same type as the one Windows uses, the x86, so there is no need to emulate the machine (And THAT is where the slowness you usually associate with an emulator comes from. VMware, for example, valued correctness over speed, so it implemented the entire hardware of a fake PC and then ran the guest OS inside that, and THAT was slow because it has to hardware trap all the low level hardware except the CPU and emulate it at the lowest level.). Wine merely provides a library to implement the function calls in the Win32 API that would otherwise not be there on a linux system, so it operates at a much higher level, not trying to emulate hardware at all. That is what makes it faster, but that is also what makes it less than 100% "correct" and causes some programs that depended on Windows' *exact* behavior to fail.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
So when you hear facts you don't like you ignore them. Noted.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Hey coward! Did you misunderstand? The people above
On to the meat of the troll-feeding:
>>Get a real OS that runs 90% of the world's software and you won't have these problems
I don't get it... Windows may run the largest percentage of the world's (commercial consumer-intended) software, but even Microsoft themselves make misleading statements about their Windows-targeted products' functionality and delay releases all the time.
>>The world is so tired of you linux losers complaining that no one supports your software.
1) Speak for yourself.
2) What does that have to do with this?
>>Get a job, and pay for your software.
Which they did... And now they're pissed off because the vendor misled them.
>>Nothing runs on your crap OS? Well, you get what you pay for.
Really? Well, you're the one who paid for your crap OS, my friend. So, you tell us: was it worth it? And, while you're busy bashing linux users, has it occurred to you that the growth of linux increases OS functionality and lowers prices even for those who can't/won't use it? Or is the joke on you?
>>You made a choice, live with it and shut up.
Well, gee, if you feel so strongly that way, why don't you do the same? =)
http://www.transgaming.com/showpage.php?page=tos
They can change them at any time, terminate the service agreement (with cause).
Compare what you have to do and what Transgaming has to do:
"YOUR OBLIGATIONS. You agree to pay the fee applicable to your subscription. You agree to provide legal authorization for debit or credit-card charges, be they monthly, quarterly, bi-annually, or annually. You acknowledge that you cannot obtain a refund for early cancellation of any kind.
You warrant that you are the cardholder of the credit or debit card you provide and the relevant information required for processing charges with said card is valid at all times. You must notify any entity that collects payments from you on behalf of TransGaming of any change of address in a timely fashion. If your debit or credit card expires, you must notify the entity that collects payments from you on behalf of TransGaming of the new expiration date before the previous expiration date has passed. TransGaming reserves the right to levy an administration fee for any credit card or debit transaction that fails."
Transgaming's "OBLIGATIONS. Subject to your compliance with these Terms of Service, TransGaming hereby grants you a personal, non-transferable and non-exclusive license to access and use the Services. "
The Services are not even defined in the agreement. I very much doubt, that this contract could even be upheld for a minute in a German court. Our legal system is not (yet?) as corrupt as the US American legal system.
Contracts of the type: We get everything, you nothing, you carry the risk, you pay, we can change the contract whenever we want are unfair.
Moritz
They cant release code if you dont stay subscribed, and you dont stay subscribed because they dont release code.
Look, someone has to take the risk, they dont have the money to do it because if they do it they migght not exsist in a year.
So whos going to take the risk?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
There will never be a WINE for the Macintosh, even if Linux was ported to it. Why?