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Nielsen to measure TiVo usage
ny_cable_guy writes "The following letter went out to all of Nielsen's clients this morning: 'Working together, Nielsen Media Research and TiVo have developed software that will enable the extraction of tuning, recording and playback information from TiVo's PVR system. TiVo has downloaded this new software as part of a normal system upgrade via phone lines to existing TiVo subscribers across the country. This software would be used only by Nielsen Media Research to retrieve data from sample households, and only with permission from the household, as is the case with all homes in our samples. It is otherwise inactive in non-Nielsen homes.' The full letter has been reprinted here on netWert."
The new Nielsens are out, and there's been a bit of a shakeup in the ratings war! Friends is out of its number 1 spot, replaced by the Simpsons and second runner Junkyard Wars... Anime appears to be America's new addiction.
.... thats a good thing. I don't see the problem with this, and since they are asking why is this a /. article?
Hah! I just scoured the Tvio forums for the reason why my Tivo (and a few others) oddly locked up Saturday night. I guess this explains it...
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I'm glad to finally see this. One of the big benefits of TiVo and the like is that they can so much more closely moniter what demographics are watching which shows with more accuracy.
What this means for TV viewers is that the shows that people actually watch will more frequently stay on the air, and the commercials they show will be better suited. It's about time!
Moderation: Put your hand inside the puppet head!
I don't like people spying on me, but I would like to think that nielson has real and accurate ratings. I may tell a researcher one thing that coincides with what I want, but it may not always be the truth. Spyware is the truth.
Blaine is also the truth. Blaine is a pain, and that's the truth. "They" will spy, and that's the truth.
Anything you say will be held against you.
It seems to me that in this age of exploiting customer information, Nielsen has always gone out of their way to respect private information, through opt-in programs, and anonymizing data. As a marketing information company this is very unnusual, and should Nielsen should be commended for this.
Making these TiVOs useful to the corporate world is good, since they are getting a cheap and easy way to get to their data, and in return their interest is now vested with this machine that the MPAA isn't too comfy with. Hopefully, TiVO just got itself a supporter in the media camp.
Now perhaps if the money from Nielsen can be used to subsidise driving the subscription cost of TiVO down, I may finally get one :)
Ñ'
I'm surprised it has taken this long. Letting the studios and networks know what shows I watch and what shows I pass over will hopefully steer them towards more shows that I like.
-- Erv Walter
"This software would be used only by Nielsen Media Research to retrieve data from sample households"
In the words of Dr. Evil "Riiiiiiiight"
How long until this "inactive" part of the Tivo software gets hacked by someone (ie Time Warner, etc). Or at least until that viewing information collected is "shared" with the media companies. Of course they all know that most people fast forward through the commercials already... so maybe it doesn't matter all that much. But it just gets under my skin that Tivo sent his to all of their boxes without consent. (yea yea... I am sure the EULA says they can do whatever they want)
Thank God I don't use the Tivo service anyhow.
I have a TiVo ... I'd love for my habits to be known. -- Errr I mean that really. -- When I change the channel because a show I don't like it comming on... I want that to count as a vote against that show. -- Vice-versa for good shows. As it is right now... no one knows what *I* think is good, except me.
I am Jack's HTTP Server
Bob Poniatowski (aka TivoPony), TiVo's PR rep, posted here about how this doesn't monitor non-neilsen homes.
(Ripped from the post)
"'Every TiVo' is a gross overstatement. There is software we can enable if you're a Nielsen household. This software allows the Nielsen box to query the TiVo and find out what is currently being displayed onscreen. But you not only have to be a Nielsen family, meaning you opt-in to data collecting per their privacy policy, you also have to opt-in to data collection from TiVo, per our privacy policy. And, as I understand it, Nielsen comes out and does some serious wiring in your house. So it's not stealthy at all - the Nielsen households involved are well aware of what is happening. As far as how and what Nielsen measures or counts...you'd have to ask them! Again, this is only for Nielsen households - not 'every TiVo recorder'."
"TK-421, why aren't you at your post?"
Frankly, I see it as a good thing for everyone involved. This may require loosening your aluminum-foil hat if you're a Big Brother Is Watching type, but..
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This topic came up in the TiVo Community forum a few weeks ago, and there is a response from TiVo in the thread explaining exactly what is going on.
. ph p?s=&threadid=68099
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread
In part, "There is software we can enable if you're a Nielsen household. This software allows the Nielsen box to query the TiVo and find out what is currently being displayed onscreen.
"But you not only have to be a Nielsen family, meaning you opt-in to data collecting per their privacy policy, you also have to opt-in to data collection from TiVo, per our privacy policy. "
I've always wondered why they don't ask for participatory commercial effectiveness voting. The Tivo would be an ideal device for this type of system. It would work like this:
When a commercial comes on, the viewer(s) are allowed to rate it on something like a 1 - 10 system. The results could be compiled and bad commercials could be automatically blocked (as a viewer preference) while good commercials could be compiled on the Tivo's drive and watched in a manner that the late adcritic.com had assembled.
I *watch* the Superbowl for the commercials. If this kind of system was implemented and widespread, commercials would become more effective and entertaining (or even informative). As a sidenote, it'd be cool if slashdot did something similar. I'm hesitant to mod down a post that I might disagree with even though I still might find it interesting. I.E. - INTERESTING+1, DISAGREE+1.
The world could be a better place, eh?
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Of the time that those Nielsen people wanted to measure my penis.
This is both good and bad news.
:) ) to find new and creative (and likely very annoying) ways to advertise to their audience.
The good news is that PVRs are gaining acceptance in the broadcast industry. Rather than being undermined, they're being recognized.
It also means that there are enough PVR systems (TiVo specifically) in the world that the audience is significant.
The bad news is that the various networks use the ratings to price advertising and make scheduling choices.
Since one of the major features of a PVR is to be able to rewind and fast-forward at will, an obvious side-effect is you can simply skip commercials. This is bad for advertisers for obvious reasons.
There has already been reported discussion of a higher level of product placement and "text crawl" type advertising rather than traditional commercials. PVR-based ratings will either confirm or refute the speculation that PVR users view few or no advertisements.
This in turn could motivate programmers (broadcast, not code
All opinions presented here aren't mine.
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
While I'm all for privacy, your assumptions are /completely/ unfounded.
/shared/ that information with media companies. They might sell it, but that will get them into trouble with Nielsen.
/and/ has a vested interest in the privacy of that data (more money for them), that is actually a good thing.
Time Warner might be doing a lot of (maybe unethical) thinks - but blatantly hacking into another vendors software is a bit risky even for them.
And TiVo would be out of their minds if they
Since Nielsen represents corporate America
And finally, TiVo sent out the software without consent. BFD. They do that all the time with their upgrades - that's why they're automatic. Nielsen Media will not touch that data until they have got their forms signed - there's too good a reputation at stake.
And even when - most people discuss what they saw on TV at the watercooler, and order porn over Pay-Per-View. How could anonymous data collection then be a violation of privacy?
Go wake up, and fight the real fight. There's lots of things that need opposition galore - this one is not among them
I mean people pay 500 dollars for these things plus a subscription fee and they still have the nerve to upload spyware into your system and "Claim" it's inactive until you say to use it.
I'd probably take mine back or demand that part be removed.
./ confuses me.
It switches from
TIVO recording show demographic. YRO = BAD. Every viewer a thief
to
TIVO recording show demographic. TELEVISION = GOOD. Better shows as a result
I'm confused.
Since they'll be able to observe when people fast-forward through commercials, the quality and viewability of commercials will be under the gun. There are some good commercials worth watching if you're in the market for a particular product or the commercial is simply entertaining. Other commercials (ie those for feminine hygeine products) aren't worth it.
I've come to accept that if I'm not directly funding a channel like HBO with a subscription, then commercials are a way of life. So, they might as well try and pitch to me something I'd consider buying rather than talking about pouring blue water on things and playing tennis in white pants.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
...report when the shows are watched and is advertisements are skipped? I'd think this information is as important and useful, if not more so, than just whether a show was watched or not. Are people watching recording Friday night shows to watch them on Tuesday night when nothing really good is on? Are some poeple not watching the entire show? why not?
Why do companies think it's ok to "upgrade" software like this? Microsoft wants to control our computers, Nielson wants to monitor what we watch (with the help of TiVo), and these companies want to slip these changes in without real notice or discussion (especially in the case of TiVo).
What happened to the rights of the consumer? Does TiVo promise not to "upgrade" their software in a way that allows anyone else into your viewing habits, or is it just a matter of how much money they are paid? Do we have any assurance that there is not another listener on our habits, nor that they sold that right once? Could this be the same software that the court almost ordered them to install to monitor comercial skipping, used in a way that makes them money?
The right to privacy in your own home, and the ability to use devices and software you purchased, for the reasons you purchased them, seems to be in danger currently. This type of thing may be "technically legal", if the EULA is legal, but is this really how we want our world to work, totally run for the convenience of corporations?
I wonder if they'll use the data to tweak ads on TiVo so that our favorite shows don't get the advertising revenue they deserve... or maybe so they do!
For instance - every night from 6:00p - 7:00p, my Tivo is set up to record MadTV on TNN. Unless it's a funny or relevant ad, I zap through it. If these ad companies figure this out, will they stop sponsoring it?
On another topic, maybe it'll make TV more time-blind as far as ad revenues go. Since TNN repeats the weeknight MadTVs at midnight, maybe advertisers will notice that they get more bang for their buck by using cheap "overnight" ad time normally used by items seen in the "As Seen on TV!" store in the mall.
Will this bring about a revolution (Tivolution!) in advertising strategy? Will more stations put "less popular but still marketable ad time" shows at 3am under the presumption that "yes, nobody will watch it right now, but lots of people Tivo the shows and the ad space is just as valuable as primetime if that's when they're watching it" ?
That's my purse! I don't know you! -- Bobby Hill
Honestly, how many times has a show been cancelled and you've wished to yourself, "Man, I wish I had a Neisen box so those network bastards would know what I really like?"
This seems like a great opt-in opportunity to democratize the airwaves, as it were. Neilsen gets a bigger market sample to forecast with, ratings become more accurate (at least for the tech-savvy, tivo-owning demographic), and we get more input into the shows we like - more than "boycott this sponsor!" or a half-assed writein campaign.
Hell, if it meant I could opt-in, Neilsen or not, I'd buy a Tivo. You betcha.
GMFTatsujin
The Nelson figures can be skewed by the fact that Tivo can "push" a program, and Tivo can watch a program that the members of the household will never view. Networks will know that the numbers are junk, but they will still base advertising rates on them.
I and my wife, for the past two years, have been using and loving TiVo. And I can't tell you how many times I said that I'd sign up in a second if they wanted my permission to take my thumbs-up/down rankings and viewing habits for use in the Neilsen ratings.
As I see it, I want my viewing habits to count. If there are thousands like me that love this show and dislike that show, then that should be reflected. There have to be cases where the determine-it-via-a-sample approach don't catch everything.
And better yet, it determines what we actually watch, not what we say we watch. If I say I really like show xyz because I want to like it but never actually watch it, that should be reflected in the ratings. Any Neilsen families using log books instead of automated devices goes through a filter we don't need it to.
Awesome. Sign me up.
..Jeff Keegan
seven syllables explain TiVo: kee gan dot org slash ti vo
Of course that is because the research is being run by a market research company who is bound by certain ethical standards.
this prevents them from passing on identifiable data unless the respondent specifically says yes.
In most instances (99.9%) companies belonging to the MRA do follow this code. I used to work for a market research company who once tried to pass on data without permission but our group (Data processors) refused. we won as they had no moral right to make us do that.
[Please type your sig here.]
Why do we have a content preference measuring system that only measures preference about what broadcasters are currently 'throwing at the wall'?
Why don't they measure what consumers want *before* the fact?
Largely, mediocre content is continually thrust into the broadcast arena, and Neilsen tells us which of the mediocre broadcasts are the best ones. Does that really improve the quality of broadcasting/programming, or give consumers what they really want?
It would be refreshing to see someone come up with a way to poll users (with appropriate rewards for their time) on what broadcast consumers *want* to see, instead of telling us which bad content is the best bad content.
btw, I'm not talking about the lame broadcast "focus groups" here; they simply have consumers watching still more drek that has been modeled after broadcast content created with Neilsen ratings in mind - that's part of the problem!)
In a way, Neilsen ratings - used as broadcast and ad marketing decision tools - are the antithesis of good marketing, because they don't get at consumer preferences *before* the 'product' is created. In the current scheme of things, Neilesn ratings serve primarily producers and advertisers of content, not the consumer - and this is one very good reason why content producers and advertisers are having so much trouble surviving.
I think that this a good move, and I for one would like the option to Opt-In to have my viewing habits tracked. Especially since most of my favorite shows could use the ratings boost :D
One question, and I don't know if anyone has the answer. How will Nielson handle information gathered from the DirecTV units, which have the ability to record two shows at the same time. Barely a day goes by that I'm not taping two prime-time shows at the same time.
In a similar vein, what about shows that the viewer doesn't select for recording, but are recorded as 'Tivo Suggestions'. Since the unit is actively watching that channel, wouldn't this skew the results as well?
Dr. Wu
I know that they are seperate organizations, but does anybody know if SonicBlue is going along with this for their boxes too?
___ I don't respond to Anonymous Cowards, and I Never Mod them UP.
but got turned down because of my TiVo.
A canvasser came to my door and explained how the program works. Apparently, the prior owners of the house were Neilsons as well. We filled out an application, but the canvasser didn't know if TiVo would be a problem -- it was.
We got a call a week afterward saying that we couldn't participate. I wonder if I'll get another call. If I do, I can't tell you. No one is supposed to know who the Nielson families are.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
The more I think about this, I would want to opt in with my tivo. Far too often I have watched some of my favorite shows go off the air. Perhaps if a large enough demographic of TiVo users do this, some of the more "geek" (for a lack of a better word) shows like futurama will stay on the air. I would be willing to bet that that audiance is largly the audiance that have TiVos.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe =UTF-8&safe=off&q=english+latin+dictionary
To correctly monitor what the demographics are...
We at TiVo have sent you a free additional appliance that plugs directly in the USB port on the backs of TiVo. Please point the red arrow toward or couch or favorite chair. When you or your family, including dog or cat, sits there, the TV will automatically turn on, and change to our favorite show.
(small print)By using this appliance, you agree that a single picture can be taken every 5 seconds and the faces are scanned and the demographics are counted. Also this appliance will confirm only your family is watching this Nelson Protected Set. Per DCMA, if another person is in the room, the police will be called.
I've got a horrible feeling that the vast unwashed masses enthralled by the World Wrestling Federation and the Jerry Springer Show vastly outnumber the population that like "I, Claudius", "Shogun", Babylon 5, exports from the BBC, and the like.
Face it folks, the money is in bread and circuses. Real artistry doesn't pay the bills.
How is this spying on you when you're the one who agree'd to allow them to look at your statistics? With Tivo you need to Opt In, or Opt Out .. You have a choice to have them look at what you watch. I will always let them look at my habits because I would like to see more shows and commercials geared to what *I* like.
Is there really such a store? Who would go there?
When I see the "As Seen on TV" logo, I immediately associate the product with "crap." To me, it serves as a "do not buy this product" filter.
Mods: I know this is offtopic, but the idea of such a store surprised me.
Every since that AOL-TW exec said that PVR users are thieves I've been thinking he's got it backwards. Sure a lot of people fast foward through the commercials, but what about the ones that rewind to see in interesting commercial? TiVo can sell that information. You can't get that from regular TVs. PVRs give you hard data that you never had before. The networks should use it to their advantage.
On the rare occasions I watch something "live," I wait 10 minutes and then start watching the show-- that way I spend 20 minutes watching 20 minutes of TV with no commercials, and it's very nearly live. In fact, you get to the end at the same time as everyone else.
That said, Tivo has made it so I practically never watch anything live, at it's scheduled time, or all at once.
...I'm just another married brother that feels your pain.
Not necessarily junk, at least you know what the viewer WANTED to watch, as opposed to what happened to be on the tv (which you can not be sure was watched either)
Have you read the Moderator Guidelines yet?
I don't have a TiVo but how would Nielson know that my grandmother is watching versus me?
Seriously....where are they? Is anyone on here a Nielsen household? I don't know anyone in my circle of friends/family/acquaintances who's a Nielsen family, so I can't imagine the ratings are so accurate, as I know a fairly broad swath of people in the New York / Boston "under 25 professional" demographic.
Feh. This all boils down to my being pissed off at Family Guy and Futurama going bye-bye.
--noah
Ferrari and other exotic car rentals in New York
I am 100% for this method of data collection. Tivo has always been very supportive of the technical community. They do not try to block modifications to their systems and even build in features to assist (the new Tivo 3 software allows you to enter a certain area code in the dialing software to enable dhcp support if you happened to have put in a tivonet type card). They are supportive of me, I will be supportive of them.
.thumbs down)
As for the ratings systems, I'm all for them using my usage data as long as they keep it in an opt-in format. For those of you not familiar with Tivo, you can rate shows with up to three 'thumbs-up' or three down. The Tivo will use this data to pick out 'suggestions' on what you might want to see. You can also set priorities on your set recordings (season passes) so that say, Every Futurama episode is recorded, even though there is an anime showing on another channel at that time. In the event you don't have anything pre-set to record and the Tivo thinks you might like something, it'll record something else on if you've got the space. (after I watched the mining rescue on MSNBC one night, my tivo thought I might like to watch some other news type channels so it recorded an hour of the weather channel's 10 minute updates . .
So, not only could the data be used on what I watched, but it could show how many times I watched it and whether or not I'm giving it anywhere from +3 to -3 on my viewing scale. I may end up watching Ricki Lake at Tivo's suggestion, but it doesn't mean I wish I had.
I have to post as an AC because I am a member of one of A.C. Neilson's "panels", but not the one for TV ratings. They have been excellent at keeping my information private. I have never received any unwanted solicitation that could be traced back to my participation with them.
The way compensation works on the consumer panel (scan barcodes on what you buy and transmit once per week with acoustic coupler on scanner, also answer occasional surveys) is that you are awarded points for transmitting information. If you transmit four weeks in a month you get a "Super Scanner" bonus. The points for each week and "Super Scanner" go up if you've been with them longer. Also you get points for surveys.
The points are then used to "purchase" gifts from a catalogue. You scan the barcodes like a survey and in a couple of weeks your gift arrives. I've received about $1000 worth of stuff over the past 10 years and I still have a large number of unused points waiting to build up for a larger ticket item. The items change. Some of the nicer large ticket items include a small tv/vcr combo and a nice astronomical telescope (which I got for my kids).
My brother who lives with me is a nielsen, does that mean my TiVo gets monitored too?
I know its a little off topic, but is there a way to put together some hardware on a spare box, download the TiVo kernel onto it, and make your own TiVo, complete with the cool GUI? Getting the remote stuff might be a little difficult, but just include some mouse drivers and you're all good (you'd already be including drivers for all the stuff already in the box that isn't TiVo standard, so why not?).
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
TiVo did (I don't know if it still does) send every single button push received from the remote back to the servers, time stamped.
I use a Replay. Right or wrong, I have more confidence that they'll keep my private information, well, private.
There's always one more bu6
Since I'm sure that the software won't report it as a view, if nobody watches it.
"Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs." P.J. O'Rourke
I keep hearing people bitching about commericals and talking abotu their desire to get rid of them all, but i don't really understand the motivation. No one is tying you down and actually _forcing_ you to watch the commercials.
I _am_ annoyed with the way that commericlas have expanded over time, taking up a larger and larger percentage of the total broadcast time, however although i don't approve of the time balance, in theory i don't have any problem with them.
If i'm watching a tv show when the commercials comes on i: get up and go to the bathroom; go to the kitchen and get a snack; read a few more pages of the book i've got sitting next to me; check IRC on my wireless laptop and catch up with the conversation; play a few more turns of Civ3; if i'm actually watching the show with anyone, turn to them and spend the time talking to them about what's going on in the show, or about anything else we feel like; and occasionally, if there is a commercial that is actually entertaining, i'll go ahead and watch it.
I don't know if the normal Nielson system has any way of measuring this, but i doubt it, and i doubt even more that they can monitor it with a piece of software in a tivo. Someone might let the tivo play through the entire commercial break, but not even be in the room to see it.
So although this will be great for keeping track of shows that people record to watch later, i don't think it will do much for helping advertisors to make more interesting and appropriate commercials the way some people have suggested.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
I remember hearing a piece on NPR's "On The Media" a while ago that pointed out that many people don't mark down shows they only watched part of (i.e., 45 minutes of an hour-long show) and some people even lie to make themselves look more cultured. Hardly a reliable method for getting accurate viewing numbers...
I don't know...seems to me like they'll be getting more data on households where the Head-of-Household is 25-34, education/income is at a certain level, and at least one person in the household is an Early Adopter. EVEN IF they trim down their sample so that it is nationally representative (which is what it sounds like they're doing), the data is still skewed by the Early Adopter nature of most TiVo owners.
...it's really a new type of data, not more accurate old data.
Don't think that this will be any more accurate that the data they have now. They will still have to do a good amount of weighting/statistical manipulation to be able to extrapolate the viewing habits of the general population. So, if they are going to end up weighting/manipulating, it really doesn't become any more accurate in the areas of data that they already have.
In my opinion, the big gain here is being able to measure what people are recording. It tells less about viewership and more about personal preference...and will probably be of little use to advertisers (commercials are skipped)
Your point are good, and I agree with them as long as who I am is left out.
Imagine what would happen if i was found out you where watching something unpopular in the political sense?
Do you want people to take note that you watched an above average number of minutes on shows about aids? Do you want your insurance company to know that someone in your household has been watching shows on cancer?
Noe neilson has an excellent reputation, and I'd like to see that they intend to keep it that way.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
...and got compensated! It was a paper survey where I check off some items about my internet and computer usage. The survey was then mailed back. In return, Nielsen sent me a crisp $2 bill. For those of you that are not American, the $2 bill is something of a rarety since everybody hoards them.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Back in the 1950's and 1960's, before the diary system came into use, there was a mechanical device employed by ratings companies (I can't remember the name of it offhand) which showed what channels you watched. Every time you changed the channel, a needle would mark another spot on a sheet of paper, and you'd send that into the ratings companies. It couldn't tell how long you were watching that channel for, but it did know what you were watching. And -- who cares if the commercials are tailor made for specific demographics? That's what the business is all about. You can't possibly create something for everyone, so you need to narrow it down and generalize a bit. Plus, it's not like you pay attention to commericals, anyways.
Haha. I know you, heathen. We excommunicated you from the Church of Trolls years ago... now you hang out with that cult, what's its name? Church of the Glorious Crapflood?
--
Trolling for Jebus since AD 2101.
of course, it'll be interesting to see how they measure commercial viewership wrt PVRs (real-time viewers per slot? time-shift viewers per slot? fast forward x1, x2, x3 viewers per slot or per commercial?)
anyway, I've noticed a couple of things on Tivo, that lead me to wonder whether Tivo's already deriving revenue from content providers (not an intrinsically bad thing, but it could force Tivo to be beholden to their new meal tickets...):
Tivo had a *ton* of Goldmember links (videos, ads, etc) on their main page recently.
also, as i was watching network tv this weekend, i noticed that, as a commercial hyping a new (ABC?) series was playing, a "press (thumbs up icon) to schedule recording" message showed up on the top right of the screen.
wonder what Tivo got paid for *those* placements..? Anyone out there in the know?
mmm... yeah... You see, we're putting the cover sheets on all TPS reports now before they go out...
The very fact that they have uploaded the code to my TiVo makes it spyware without my permission. Today they have an opt-in option. What about tomorrow ??
How can you trust a company which would upload code to your box without your consent !!!
I just checked out:
http://tv.yahoo.com/nielsen/
And 3 of the top ten shows are part of the law and order syndicate. That's pretty amazing if you ask me.
... that Tivo (or variants) is the best method I have to watch their programming. I'm sorry, but my life is not based around time-slots. If they want me to watch their commercials, they need to find a way to make that compelling to me.
If they use this data to say "people are filtering out commercials", the proper response is NOT to disable the commercial filtering technology. If commercials are so obnoxious that people will spend $400 for a gadget that filters them, then the problem is definitely not that people are thieves. The problem is that they're not catering to their audience. If I am willing to spend that much money to filter commercials, then removing my ability to do that will result in removing my interest in watching TV.
If they're smart, they'll use the data gathered here to say "Maybe we should cut commericals down from 2 minutes to one minute, and have fewer breaks. That way, people won't be bothered to use the 30-second skip." Heck, if AOL can learn this lesson, why not the TV Industry?
Funny thing is, I can see this approach resulting in people watching TV for longer. My attention span is short enough as it is. A commercial can kill my interest in a show. That's not good.
"Derp de derp."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
TiVo viewers (along with ReplayTV viewers) DON'T WATCH COMMERCIALS. Why else would you own one of these machines?
You obviously don't own a TiVo.
Yes, most TiVo owners tend to fast-forward through commercials, though they can't skip them entirely or automatically (unlike ReplayTV). However, as the existence of primetime "best commercials" programs indicates, people will watch commercials if they're good. (Many people watch the Super Bowl for the commercials because advertisers tend to work harder on making those commercials better than the usual tripe.) While I routinely fast-forward through commercials on my TiVo, I also regularly rewind to watch one which catches my eye. The moral? If advertisers want people to watch commercials without needing to coerce them into doing it, they should make better commercials that are worth watching.
While skipping commercials may be popular (since we're all sick of being bombarded with commercial messages), timeshifting is the real killer feature of the TiVo, not commercial skipping. Until you "get it", the TiVo just sounds like a glorified VCR, but that's really an inadequate description. While a VCR is useful for timeshifting "must see" programs, it's enough of a hassle that it's only used when necessary. With a TiVo, most users soon find they're recording everything of interest (usually automatically), and watching programs when convenient. You stop scheduling your life around TV schedules, and there's always something you like available to watch no matter when you sit down at the TV. If you're interrupted by a ringing phone, you pause the TV. If you want to see something again, you rewind it. You can pause and rewind on live TV as well as prerecorded shows. (My 2-year-old daughter gets upset when we can't rewind the TV in the bedroom on demand!)
To the uninitiated, the TiVo's features seem more like parlor tricks -- neat tricks, but not really important, and not worth paying for when you have a VCR already. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what PVR's are really about. It's not just an enhanced VCR. It fundamentally changes the way you watch TV, and once you get used to it, you'd never go back to the plain old VCR. Just ask any TiVo owner.
Better yet, go buy one from a retailer with a 30-day return privilege and see for yourself. I doubt you'll end up returning it!
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
Glad I don't have a tivo, i'd be pissed!
Unless this is in their EULA or some such that comes with tivo (if any), i'd consider this invasion of privacy.
At least when you are mailed a form it's your choice to fill it in and send it, or not.
This sounds mandatory.
Lame, lame, lame, Tivo.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
..people who go out and buy a slew of cds because of mp3s?
Heh. Same thing. The networks should use it to their advantage, but they won't, because it's easier to bribe a few congressmen while whining 'Thieves! Pirates! Avast! Arr! Salty nuts!'
ue to a logic error, a "NOT" was missed in an expression, and we accidently turned on all of the TiVo's for collection...
My-bad.
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
While I think you are wise to consider the ways that we the public might get screwed, I would like to point out that both Neilson and TiVo have an established reputation of NOT screwing their customers. It seems like they understand that treating the public badly is poor business practice in the long run, so I don't think we should assume that these two parties will violate our privacy with impunity.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
how about instead of installing by default and then us trusting people, policies and murphy (as in murphy's law) that nothing will go wrong... how about simply making a craplet that can be d/l by those that are selected (after an acceptance process of course). This would save a LOT of potential nastiness and at the same time enforce that choice and privacy are paramount over technical nick-nacks.
but "they" might be (in fact I'm sure they are) quite interested in reaching the specific demographic we can assume TiVo users represent. Nielson doesn't just extrapolate the viewing of the aggregate, but also breaks down viewing of sub sets.
The big thing that is new about TiVo data is that it covers non-live viewings, which has never been done before. Until they actually get the data, we don't know what that means.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
This is bad bad news folks.
They could just take the blanket TiVo data, but Nielson wants much better data than that and they need the viewer's cooperation if they are going to get it. They don't want the just know that the show was being played on the TiVo, they want to know who was in the room watching it.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
TiVo viewers (along with ReplayTV viewers) DON'T WATCH COMMERCIALS.
Perhaps ReplayTV has a 30 second skip button that blanks the screen, but Tivo's commercial skip is based on a fast-forward mechanism that backs up a bit when disengaged. Thus, if you place your brand name steady on the screen during a whole 30 second spot, the Tivoers will still see it.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I don't want to sound judgemental, or anything, but Come On!? Does he have to be that , um, stereotypical?
Apple has a policy of NOT paying for product placement. If you want to use their hardware as props, you can buy them at the store like everyone else. However, since people like how they look, they often buy Apples, still a cheap prop.
Many shows blank out the Apple logo, as Apple isn't paying them. If the policy is no freebies, no logo. Otherwise, they can use the logo.
People use Apple computers because they look good.
Alex
There was an episode where a "Nielsen Family" came before the judge for some violation. The judge asked why they were afraid to leave their house and if they had any time to do fun things away from the TV.
Husband: "Oh no, we used to read before we went to bed occasionaly but not any more."
Judge: "Why?"
Husband: "We missed a few episodes of Webster, so they cancelled it."
Judge: "So do you ever get out? You know, see a movie, go for a drive?"
Husband: "Uh uh, Yeah! About four years ago we thought we would go catch a movie" (wife sobbs)
Judge: "Yeah? And what happened?"
Wife (sobbing hysterically): "We lost Punky!!!"
(appologies if I didn't remember it right).
I'm hesitant to mod down a post that I might disagree with even though I still might find it interesting. I.E. - INTERESTING+1, DISAGREE+1.
You're not SUPPOSED to mod down a post because you disagree with it. Whether it's wrong is for every reader to decide for themselves.
You're supposed to moderate on whether other people might want to see it, to direct their attention to interesting/insightful/funny stuff and away from flamebate/troll/redundant/etc.
(It might be interesting to allow a separate right/wrong moderation system. Perhaps with slightly different rules: No mod points to consume, probablility of being allowed to moderate moderately high for newbies, 100% for those with a significant preponderance of agree on right/wrong metamoderation.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
A while ago I was contacted by Nielsen//NetRatings to allow them to monitor my Internet use. They gave me a $50 savings bond that I can't cash in for some time and so I think I lost it. Their software was basically an open proxy server that sat on the host machine. That was probably a security risk for people not behind firewalls, and I told them so. I don't know if they ever did anything about it because their members website was basically just a place to download the software. It lagged my net connections considerably and I routinely turned it off. At the time, I was also a bit of a BeOS fanatic and they only had a Windows version, so a lot of my browsing went undetected when I booted into BeOS.
You've probably noticed all the past tense I've been using. I could only endure their annoying software for so long, so I quit before they could give me another savings bond I would probably lose too.
The atomicity allowed by this system could revolutionize TV ratings.
If a substantial portion of viewers use TiVo's "instant replay" feature on a given portion of a program, the data gathered could be used to figure out why people like certain shows.
Think of the ramifications. Nielson discovers which jokes are funny, which commercials are entertaining, how many times we're willing to sit through a given commericial, how many times viewers use "instant replay" to see Britney's tits bounce.
All of it leads to fewer repetitive commercials, better programming, and a valuable catalog of desirable programming attributes. Maybe it could even convince American networks that a little T&A goes a long way, and attracts enough viewers to compensate for the overly vocal "religious right". To be honest, I think watching T&A is a bit like picking your nose or peeing in the shower. Most people do it, but they'd never admit to it.
Hell, give out one remote per family member. The "thumbs up" and "thumbs down" can tell you that Mr. Jones loves The O'Reilley Factor, but The Mrs. can't stand it. Voting with your eyeballs just became possible.
Personally, I'd like to see commercials targeted to my demographic. I (and my wife (thank God)) could give a damn about the "New Size 14+ Maxi-Pads", but show me a commercial about the new Nissan 350Z, and I'm not gonna use the 30-second skip. And stop showing so many damned AOL ads. I ain't buying it.
I want a TV that knows what I like in commercials and in programming. Pretty soon, I'm going to have it.
"Saddam Hussein cavorts with terrorists."
In particular, I wonder how well non-conventional households are represented.
<speculation src="FAQ">
Representation in the Nielsen selection process is entirely based on how many land-line telephone numbers you have. They dial random ten-digit U.S. phone numbers, but they exclude mobile phones because of the federal junk fax law.
</speculation>
Will I retire or break 10K?
I've been a Nielson houshold three years running. What have they found? That I watch an average of five hours oif TV a week, and that my wife watches about an hour or so more a week. Even though the point of the Nielson system is to set advertising rates, it's nice to know that I did my part in trying to keep Reboot! on the air.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
I recently was "selected" to do one of the Nielson TV ratings. As my taste in television programming is probably "off beat" from that of most of America, I wanted to make sure that my favorite shows got some respect.. :)
The system that they use for logging TV shows may make sense for the old days of rabbit ears, but it was completely ridiculous for me (a DirecTivo user). They actually want you to write down a list of all of the channels you receive!! Ha!!
Also, as a Tivo user, I usually don't watch live TV. As a DirecTivo user, I have dual tuners and can record two different live shows while watching a third. Trying to capture my recording/viewing habits on their grid was pretty ridiculous.
I don't mind sharing my viewing habits back to Tivo -- it would be nice though if I was given a discount on the service for providing them the data.
Evolution: love it or leave it
I moved into an apartment, which may explain why I was selected (previous owners?? who knows...)
When I got the guide, I had a hard time figuring out how to explain my DirecTivo (dual tuner.. etc) usage in their format. I had a call with a very confused customer service represenatitive who had no idea what a Tivo was or what its capabilities were. I ended up just pretending like I had two TVs each w/ a VCR and wrote it up that way.
Evolution: love it or leave it
1) Buy a 433 or better (faster is better)
2) Buy a video card with TV out
3) Buy a TV tuner card
4) Find a hard drive with 20 gigs free or so
5) Get some PVR software, such as IUVCR
It's not nearly as user friendly, but you can be absolutely sure that no company is tracking you. Plus you end up with standard DivX AVI's that you can do whatever you want with.
Travis
One step closer to realtime ratings and the world of Max Headroom. I've been watching the episodes on Tech TV and it's scary how prescient that show was.
In order to be a Neilsen viewer, they come to your house and rewire all of the TV's, VCR's, game consoles, etc so that they can tell what your watching and when. It makes more sense for the Neilsen tech to update your Tivo when they rewire the TV than for everyone to get an 'inert' update that could be potentially activated without their knowledge or consent.
My take on these services and updates is that there should be some level of consumer consent (beyond the EULA) before they are allowed to happen. Especially when it comes to privacy concerns. I'm sure that there is currently a clause in the Tivo EULA that allows them to make whatever updates to the user's box that they feel is neccessary. So be it, updates to improve performance and add functionality are typically welcomed. But is there a clause allowing them to collect information about viewing habits without consent or knowledge? Probably not now, but there soon will be. Is there a clause limiting how they use the information, who they share it with, or even who has direct access to the Tivo's monitoring software? Probably not now and probably not ever.
So "3rd today" and "always" are the same to you? Interesting.
If you bothered to look more carefully, you would see that I was replying to a +2 post at +2, and the posts were on topic. I feel those posts were worthy of +2. I consciously choose to use +2. But I almost never reply "louder" than the parent, so you will also see me post at +1 regularly, and even at 0, like now, when we are off-topic. I self moderate, and that is all that I am suggesting other people should do.