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The Last Place
angela morgenstern writes "Buddhist Bhutan was the last place on earth to legalize television. Trading traditional practices for daytime soaps and WWF, many fear that western influence will trample the culture." A whole set of articles about the effect of American television on one of the most remote places on earth - it's official, there is no escape from American "culture".
Sure there is, turn off your TV, prise your kids out of the kid-shaped depression in the sofa and do other things that don't require you to be passive and watch ads to give you a value system.
What does the world wildlife fund have to do with any of this?
In the report it says : "Rinzy has hooked up this secluded society to 45 cable television channels, featuring everything from the BBC to Baywatch, all for about $5 a month: the price of a bag of red chillies."
Is that the cost of a bag of red chillies in the United States ? How much buying power is $5 in Bhutan ? So these people get to watch adverts for cars/food/luxuries that they will not be able to purchase.
I have only just got back from SEasia and could not find much to watch on their TV as they have their own programming that I found terrible. They have a good strong culture of their own and I think it will prevail. I had to resort to MTVasia and the BBC world. Even MTVasia is their own bubble pop rather than the stuff we are used to. As the tube moves into Bhutan I think it will be asian TV that goes with it and they will not get this expected burst of western "culture" when it arrives.
American "culture" ? is that an oxymoron ?
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
it's official, there is no escape from American "culture".
Sure there is. Here are a set of simple instructions.
1) Locate point of entry for electricity in to your house.
2) Disconnect Electricity (some car is advised at this point). 3) Locate all telephones in house.
4) Smash telephones with Hammer, or other large heavy object (possibly your now useless VCR).
5) Locate large wads of cotton wool.
6) Insert cotton wool in to ears (in case of passing boombox).
7) Never leave house.
Never mind Pax Americana, fear Pax AOL / Time Warner.
<fnord>OBEY</fnord>
Bhutan's top 10 cable channels.
They mean to tell me that they get HBO in friggin' Bhutan? I can't even get it in Canada!
Actually this is a bit more accurate than you may think. Recently I spent a month trekking in Nepal - a nearby country to Bhutan and one that has only recently (30 years) opened itself to foregin influences.
The popularity of WWF, even high in the remote mountain villages, was not something I expected. Then again, this is usually the only "culture" the US exports.
I also visited the country about 10 years earlier after a few months backpacking through India. For around 3 months I travelled and didn't once see a bottle/can of Coca Cola (or derivative) - it was all local soft drinks that were available. At the time it was a refreshing change, and gave you a much more local flavour.
On my more recent trip you could *only* get Coca Cola soft drinks (Coke, Sprite, Fanta, etc.), even high in the mountains a week's travel from the nearest road. OK, they were locally manufactured (under license) and tasted different (the Fanta was nice!), but it was something that got in the way of emersing yourself in a completely different culture. As for the locals themselves, there seemed to be no benefit whatsoever for them having "Coke" soft drinks compared to the local ones before them.
Ho hum, roll on the Disneyfication of the planet.
this is hot stuff!:
;)
19:00-19:15 Tonight & The News in Dzongkha
19:15-19:20 Advertisement and announcement
19:20-19:50 Dzongkha Gongphel
19:50-20:00 UK TODAY Sutton Hoo- The London Marathon
20:00-20:10 News in English
20:10-20:15 Advertisement and announcement
20:15-20:30 Telematch
20:30-21:00 Telematch
I am ready to Dzongkha! Whatever it is
Hah Har! Loser!
-- "So, what's the deal with Auntie Gerschwitz et all?"
It never occured to me that there might be a place that there *ISN'T* TV.
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
What is so "wrong" with American culture? Why everybody hates it?! If our culture can so easily break your own traditions from usual TV broadcasts then you should blame only yourself, not Americans. And if you don't like American Rationalism then welcome back to medieval age...
Nothing's wrong with American culture. Nor with the USA "culture", it's just that people outside USA don't call WWF, McDonalds and The Simpsons "culture".
~velco
Are you happy with US "culture" as it is today? By that term I do not mean real US culture (there is some), but the jokingly termed "culture" many non-US people label for things like Disney, Coke, WWF, etc.
Travelling around the US you see that such companies have had, what I believe, to be a very negative effect. Everywhere you go it all looks the same, tastes the same, hears the same (same music industry manufactured "pop"), etc. Local and regional flavour is lost. This is great if you like Taco Bell, only drinking Coke and listening to Britney. But there is a lot more to life than that!
Why is it popular in other countries? Well, 2 reasons:
1) The *good* thing about the US - **freedom**. You live a very privelidged life compared to many people of the world. Many people of the world see the US and freedom as being very related things. So when they are given a bit of freedom they have previously lacked, they gravitate towards such things. Think as a teenager and how you behaved once given freedom from parents.
2) This is a not so good thing about the US - **money**. Consider the situation in Bhutan as an example. At the moment there are local (very small) companies that make soft drinks - these won't be copies of Coke, etc., but will be genuine different soft drinks you've never experienced. As Bhutan opens itself up, Coca Cola will move in and either set up a new company to manufacture their drinks, or buy existing ones. People will buy their drinks first of all because of #1 above - it's new, it's cool, etc. Within a very short time, there will be no local soft drinks made. The reason for this will *not* be because Coke is better and people only want it. It will be because the Coca Cola company have the financial muscle to completely control the soft drinks industry of that country. This is not good.
#2 applies to things much more than soft drinks, TV, etc. When you're talking about 3rd world countries and things like agricultural seed supplies and strictly controlled genetically engineered crops, this can have a very bad effect. It's very realistic for companies akin to Monsanto to completely control who areas of agricultural production in these kinds of countries.
So if you believe "raionalism" is #2 above, and this is a good thing, you can surely extrapolate this to meaning there will eventually be only 1 of anything in the world - a single soft drink we all only buy, a single type of car, etc. I don't think this will be a nice place to live.
Left uncontrolled, #2 will eventually remove much of the choice and freedom in the world, thereby harming the greatest thing about the US, #1.
I guess there should be a distinction made between american culture and american "culture" as used by michael. Yes, you americans have a great culture; excellent writers, great artists and original musicians. Too bad that the stuff that actually gets exported the most is "culture": coke, disney and the worst of hollywood.
I've been reading some of the comments and all I have to say is this: don't short change yourself or your culture, be aware of the things that have real value and give these to the world.
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
This is a tiny country, and they don't need a slashdotting.m .bt+bhutan
http://www.google.com/search?q=+site%3Awww.bbs.co
That might be a good enough link to use for most pages in the bhutan broadcasting service.
Come on, what's so bad about our culture? Not all of us are the stereotyped fat slobs who stare at the TV all day. Our music is diverse, our people tend to work, and our culture is mostly tolerant on issues. And I like the fact that we are free to discuss issues concerning the government.
Just like I've seen the culture of a small Alaskan village cease due to the introduction of T.V. So will the culture of Bhutan. This letter to the editor is very convincing on that point.
When I was young, we were Alaskans. We had our own culture and music both the old (native alaskans) and the new Russians and Americans had forged a unique identity that was Alaskan. Then TV came. By the time I left High School you could see the changes.
My point is well illustrated by this story:
I graduated high school in 1992, the kids from our class did the Christmas dance theme on some cute "Stairway to Heaven" or other schmaltzy thing. The kids that were class of 1994 did "Christmas in da 'Hood". The '94 kids had gang violence in their classrooms. Kids bringing guns to school (with the intent of shooting other kids and not to show off their new hunting rifle), weapons, and grafiti became problems.
The ironic thing was that the younger classes were smaller ours was the largest graduating class.
I remember all the Rappers and the oppressed gansta' types sulking about the remote and wild wilderness of one of the remotest places on earth. Some people run away to the untouched beauty of Alaska to escape inner-city grime. How ironic that an aspiring young rap-star would be cursed with living in a place where there was hardly any crime and the government paid you to live there.
If religion is the opiate of the masses, then television is the crystal-meth of the glue huffing, crack-smoking, I-got-the-munchies masses.
[signature]
After realizing that I never watched TV anyway, and the kids were watching too much, I disconnected the cable.
Got internet for news, info, and entertainment. The kids now spend more time playing outside and reading. The only thing I really miss is sports (no big deal, as I hate all the local teams here in Maryland) and 24hr news (at least have the net).
Still have the TV (gotta watch DVDs and the kids still have the kiddie movies). But it mostly stays off now. It's nice.
Granted, instead of spending $40 a month on cable, I'm spending $100+ a month on DVDs.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
Um... the simpsons spends half its shows making fun of american culture. I love the simpsons, but there must be a better example.
Free Java games for your phone: Tontie, Sokoban
"THIMPHU, Bhutan -- Microsoft's latest venture is a localized version of its dominant Windows operating system for the tiny Himalayan kingdom of Bhutan. "
Article Here
Your comment would make a lot more sense if it actually were Europeans making the comments. Check the facts a bit. The site hosting the article is PBS, which is American. And the people writing the stories are Americans. So no Europeans here!
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
As if that weren't bad enough, Bill Gates won't leave them alone either
So the rich will raise children on WWF, Martha Steward, and boy bands. After a generation or so, rich IQs will be cut in half, and the poor will begin to replace them in the high-paying jobs until they too can afford TV...
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
I think the problem with American culture is that it tends suck you in and forget about the others.
Let me give you an example. In the US there is a wine company that sells itself as Cabris, which is actually a region in France that is know to sell a good white wine. Well the American company took advantage of this to "con" people. The French region on the other hand has problems now because people get confused by the marketing message.
The problem of American culture is not the American's themselves, but the companies that take advantage of situations. Corporations in their quest for profits and bigger market share do not care a rat's butt about culture. Just more money. And in the past that has not been a problem. But now in a global economy that is a problem. Since it means some things will be lost, even though they should not be.
The American corporations are just too damm efficient at taking over the world. Result is hatred. Whenever you see people hating America, do you see people hating individual American's? Nope just icons, flag, McDonalds, jeans, etc.
I think that the challenge of this century will not be tech, or political, but social. This century will be the century when humanity is tested to see if we can truly live together! Or if we are doomed to be fighting each other. We have the technology to destroy each other and we have the means to live together.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
Yes, I'm not "American" (well I am, I'm south american, but in the states people take that name to mean them. In Chile, "America" means the continent). It's not about it being right or wrong, but it's the fact that it influences other people's culture. And the point that you can then argue is wether those other cultures should survive, be preserved, or if they are subject to "survival of the fittest".
As far as I'm concerned, one of my cultures was destroyed when the spaniards invaded northern chile and bolivia, and huge areas of that culture are now gone. But even though I've never even spent more than a couple of days in the places where my ancestors lived, I can still pick up a book or search the internet and learn about it. So yes, preserve it, but no, don't force people to keep it while they want to watch WWF, eat at McDonalds or whatever else.I don't want to impose my judgement on that. Otherwise you're teaching people to see their culture as obligatory...
downsides:
- WWE (formerly the WWF)
- The Anna Nicole Smith Show
- Jackass
- Springer/Oprah/etc.
- FOX News
upsides:
- Simpsons
- Red Dwarf
- Cartoon Network's Adult Swim
- MST3K
"I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
If you want a glimpse of Bhutan, read their national newspaper Kuensel on the web. It's in English and it gives a fascinating insight into a country that's still trying to take on the modern world on its own terms.
And it uses Slash.
It's good to see that the people of Bhutan keep up with there budist nature and look after pandas and the wildlife...
didn't you mean WWE
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
pure and uncorrupt, just like a lot of africa etc ..... a hundred and a bit years ago.
As a gross overstatement Africa hasn't become poor, it's become greedy.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Lately, I like to consider watching television and/or movies, the same as most people think of the consumption of alcoholic beverages. It's fine to do it socially, while in the company of friends or family, but taking in too much (especially while you're only by yourself), is not good for you.
Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
As I was reading through these posts, wondering why American culture has spread so virally throughout the rest of the modern world, it struck me as to WHY foreign governments don't seem to be saying a while lot about it: Control.
Think about it....has the American populace ever been so apathetic and easily manipulated as we have in the last 25 years? Our political and corporate leasership gets progressively worse and worse and yet the same people keep getting re-elected into office and appointed to positions of trust. This is a fucking wet dream not only for corrupt despots of all kinds in the rest of the world, but other so-called democracies and republics that don't want all the hassle that comes with actually appeasing people through honesty and care for citizens' well being.
"Fuck it", they say, "let em watch TV so we can manipulate their views with mass media and satiate their desires by making them think they have to have all the useless crap that's advertised...they'll feel their needs are met when they make a few purchases."
It's made most of us lazy, greedy, and apathetic...hardly anyone votes anymore and most of the ones that do cannot be bothered to think about who they're voting for, they just vote for whatever party they decided they liked in high school civics class. No one takes an interest in their community anymore. How many of you can say you know the names of all your neighbors? How many of you care? By this loss of sense of community and the artificial contentment that arises from being a "consumer", we don't take nearly as much of an active part in what's going on around us, community or government. Local or National.
Don't let it fool you...American culture is about being controlled while at the same time feeling like you're the one in charge. You ARE in charge...of what channels you watch and what merchandise you buy. I have genuine respect for those who are willful enough to avoid watching television, or better yet, do not own one. When the revolution comes, you'll be the ones who aren't watching it on CNN.
Happiness can't be found in catch phrases, soft drinks, feel-good tv shows, or pop music. I feel sorry for the people of Bhutan. It sounds like it used to be a nice place.
This message brought to you by the Council of People Who Are Sick of Seeing More People.
The article made the Bhutanese people seem, to me, like America's children. But in a few years, hopefully the novelty will wear off, and Bhutan won't lose its rich culture to Sex in the City and MTV.
By the time you stop watching, it's already too late. TV has had its effect on you during your formative years, and your adult life will be forever shaped by it.
I don't know, the Amish have been doing a pretty good job of preventing their culture from becoming "Americanized" as far as I can tell, and they live in America.
These fears aren't just about Bhutan. If anything, America faces as great a threat from the death of local culture as anywhere else. The only difference is that we delude ourselves into thinking that raking in money makes it all "okay."
Sure, we feel more comfortable when we travel when we can order the same extra value meal in in every time zone, but I can only echo the sentiments of Lisa on the variety of Americana:
Lisa: Wow, Dad and Bart have been everywhere! They've eaten submarine sandwiches, grinders, *and* hoagies.
Damn. I guess I've been taken in by the tentacles too. I guess it's okay as long as I can super-size.
----------
I am an expert in electricity. My father held the chair of applied electricity at the state prision.
Actually I think this is all a pretty interesting issue. What is it about the influence of American culture that makes it so pervasive and insidious that it pretty much instantly infects and metastasizes inside cultures hundreds or even thousands of years older?
Rationalism? Well, maybe to a degree, but I don't think the WWF, Rosie O'Donnell, and When Aliens Attack IV really represents the height of the Western Rational tradition.
Freedom? Hmmmm... again maybe to a degree but probably not in the way people are thinking about. Consumerism (of which I freely admit to being an addict as much as the next guy) tends to blur over and confuse itself with Freedom, but it isn't freedom in the same sense that the framers of the constitution thought about. What it is about is a much more elementary and slightly infantile wish for instant gratification and godlike immediate access to all objects of desire. This is a human universal, so the appeal there is obvious...
The Big Corporate Conspiracy? It always comes up, but moving past the tinfoil-hat brigade there's an element of truth there all the same. Shows and advertisments are both crafted to go under our rational radar and appeal to the idea of the life we wish we had. We tune in to a show or watch a movie because we are entertained - traditional cultural stuff is often enjoyable in a forced and strained way (kind of like a visit with Grandma) but the latest Arnie movie is a cheap date who wants to go home with you right now. Who doesn't like that? The Corporate Media (hate using that term, but let's not pretend it doesn't exist) craft the American Media Experience to appeal instantly to everyone, and they do it in a darwinian environment that encourages doing it better all the time. Can the ten-thousandth retelling of Fred the Barber and His Magic Scissors compete with Sex In The City?
The real problem with this is that people tend to confuse success with value. I think that's what angers the anti-american-culture reactionaries.
Your whole post is great, but these last few words really nail it. The fact is, common Americans have squat to do with "giving our culture to the world." First off, we don't export, big Katzian corporations do. Second off, we don't travel abroad, at least we can't afford to very often, and can't do much personal export.
So maybe I'd be willing to give some of my culture to the world, but there's not much way or opportunity. Instead we have Disney and AOL/Time Warner selling American "culture", as you say. The key distinction is between "give" and "sell".
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
WOW, I didnt know that!!!
Who is this Linus Torvalds then?
Thank you for very intelligent reply and very strong points.
American culture (mostly the entertainment area) is like cocaine - once you've tried it you can't live without it...It is tailored for the people and sharpened to penetrate instantly into average men's mind.
It is just like business competition of different cultures.. If your own culture can offer you better or to least same way to live (read entertain) than American's, then it can survive. Otherwise, it is doomed. So don't blame us, you have to offer something better or survive.
No one really wants to live in a traditional culture without movies, TVs and internet.
And here is the point to a T. I drink wine and really like it. But the problem in the wine community is that people in Europe are stuck up about American wines because marketing companies do these dumb stunts. There are good American wines, but those get tarnished by corporations that only see profit. And all of this cummulates into hate of America, when it was just a few dumb companies.
What I sometimes miss among some American corporations and some American politicians is a global attitude.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
I've had it up to here (hand waving just over top of head) with people dissing American "culture", as it's always put.
Let's face it, what passes for culture in, say, Northern Europe is the art produced to the taste of a small elite that maintained its position through violence and threats of violence.
In much of the rest of the world, what passes for culture involves things like clitorectomy, honor killing of women, huge rates of infant mortality, etc.
What's America got by comparison? Well, an empowered middle class that gets to do pretty much what it wants. Hence we have backyard barbeques, tailgate parties, Budweiser, The Simpsons, large bellies, and early cholesterol death.
And guess what? We like it like that!
Now, don't get me wrong, there is room in the fringes for the next Mozart. In fact, bring it on! If we like it, we'll make you a multi-millionaire.
You see, that's the beauty of American culture: it's a total democracy of taste, and the mob gets to vote with its pocket book.
Now, I know that the elites in other parts of the world just totally gnash their teeth at this. That's what elites do when confronted with deomcracy.
Well, get used to it.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
You claim that the manipulation of the population of the US has become much more profound in the last 25 years. I think you are being a bit short sighted. You speak of Mass Media manipulating people...but people have been manipulated for eternity. Does being told what to buy and believe become more acceptable when it's the rest of your town/neighborhood doing the telling, rather than a corporation? Your complaints about corrupt polititions being re-elected is also an on-going theme in human government.
In short, nothing has changed except your perception. Do you truely think that Maw and Paw Kettle out in Bumfuck, ID knew about political scandles back in the 1800's? Of course not, all they knew about washington was reported in a newspaper. A newspaper that 'played nice' with the politicos. Things seem worse because you can see all the bad events, but trust me, this stuff has been going on forever. Do you really think the industrial magnates of the first half of the 20th century were 100% pure? Yeah right! When you own all the steel in the country, you do what you want.
Don't throw out the TV...maybe turn off the cable. Just remember that it's all entertainment. Even the 'news', and especially CSPAN!
Blar.
Oh, boy. I am such a redneck. I need to put on a Kraftwerk CD and read some gibberish by Derrida. And then maybe go out and pogrom a few Jews. Then I'll be suave and sophisticated.
And now is the time on Sprockets where we go on about how much more culture we have than the Americans.
Okay, I'll grant Europe had a fine culture, once. Operas and architecture and symphonies and everything. But that was a gosh-darn long time ago. Let's just face it. Europe has been in decline, culturally and politically, for about a century now.
I can get Beethoven, Mozart and Sibelius on CD. I can get the Dutch masters in high quality reproduction. I can even get the worthless crap the French are passing off as philosophy these days, though there's not much point. Who needs Europe anymore? It's all used up.
Nowadays, someone mentions European culture, and what comes to mind is the topless aerobics in that Chevy Chase movie. Just think, honey. They've been doing this for eons!
http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe Better a smartass than a dumbass.
Whats wrong with McDonalds? Tasteless, bland, small, factory-style food. Here we have local hamburger joint, ironically named "American Style" where you can get hamburgers like god intended them to be. Big, juicy and with TASTE! Something that McDonalds totally forgot.
But of course the sheeps go to McDonalds with their screaming kids. I have taken a vow to never set a foot inside McDonalds again!
it's official, there is no escape from American "culture".
Or Great Britian "culture" or Austrailian "culture" or whatever "culture"
television is an entertainment device and if people are entertained by "culture" then let them.
God forbid they discover that the world isnt flat and there are other people in it.. let alone the fact that the people you were bred to hate all your life are not really as bad as your government told you they were... (Go watch some Chinese or Russian Television programmes or movies.)
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I'd assert that by the time an American goes abroad, there's already likely been quite a bit of "sorting" done. Those party-hearty young Americans are most likely out of the very wealthy, as are the old energetic. They're not average.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Another curious story about Bhutan.
The evaluation of an action as 'practical' . . . depends on what it is that one wishes to practice.
At least we know how to laugh at ourselves. Give us that, at least.
Also, I think "culture" is overrated. I'm creating beautiful disarray, ejaculate meaningless drivel. I like doing whatever the fuck I want when I want, all of the time.
For example, I like saying fuck. FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!
Try it, feels gooooood
Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
We in America are a cancerous growth- sort of. We're a hell of a lot like, say, Microsoft- everything will be great if we don't ask any questions, don't stop to think, don't slow down! This masks some fundamental problems with our values.
There are a lot of places in the world where trying to imitate us in the USA has led to a world of hurt. Attempts to do high-yield agriculture, attempts to use 'free trade' by setting up sweatshops and such things- if our value is just 'MORE' well, that's a problem.
There was a time when we had much more specific values- 1776. If you read things like the Federalist Papers you'll see the words of people with far more depth to them than you commonly see these days. I have! Everybody here is fond of Jefferson for his thoughts on IP being like a flame that is spread, not diminished, but I'm also a fan of Madison and Federalist #10, and that guy would have understood this situation perfectly. He was the one loudly demanding that the majority be prevented from automatically trampling smaller factions (cultures) just by its own weight. Instead of proposing that Shangri-La be trampled by the weight of Western 'culture' (exactly how do you consider 'Seinfeld' culture? Answer carefully- it's a trick question, and a deeper question than you think), how about devoting some thought to how this 'living meme', Shangri-La, which has echoed throughout culture and literature like some earthly Heaven, can be allowed to retain its own identity? Because IT WANTS TO. It's just that you don't saddle a damned butterfly and expect it to be the same.
Can't help but be reminded of Douglas Adams' little parable about Fuolornis Fire Dragons...
Folks,
I think the fall of cultural provincialism via the spread of television is not exactly a new phenomenon.
Think about it: when the Roman Empire spread throughout the Mediterrean, the culture of that empire heavily stomped out most local cultures and/or adapted local cultures to Roman needs. It was this singular culture that allowed Christianity to spread throughout the Empire by the 3rd Century AD.
When Johann Gutenberg invented the moveable type printing press around 1453, it made it much easier to spread learning around Europe. The ability to print thousands of identical copies of books formed the basis of national culture throughout Europe.
And from the 1920's on, the rapid deployment of radio did a lot to reduce provincial spoken dialects, especially with national radio networks pretty much forcing people to speak in very few or only one standard dialect(s).
Television is just only a recent medium that is stomping out cultural provincialism through the world; the Internet is doing the same right now.
Of course, I'm one of those freaks supporting Bhutan's desire to not be Westernized, so maybe you shouldn't listen to me. Or maybe it's worth asking 'why does living that small amount more like Shangri-La lead one to understand and sympathise with them more?'
As someone who has actually left the country(USA) and travaled to diffrent parts of the world (mainly asia and the middle east)let me tell you something; US, Canada, England, Australia, and many of the european countries have a good deal of freedoms pretty much in line with the bill of rights none of these countries way out thier in there laws(minus few tech laws but these will get ironed out in time and reps get more tech savvy). When I was in thailand I found it is legal to have sex with very young girls and prostitution is a mojor industry there. Some may say they have the freedom to prostitute themselves others would say its morally objectionable. these are the things that go on in other countries generally I like thai peopel they are friendly and don't look down on you because your american. when I was in japan and hong kong they would not let americans in to certain bars and nightclubs this obviously racism but no one cares. when in the middle east our female marines and sailors could not go out at night becuase they are females. If i was to rank America on personal freedoms she would easily be in the top ten. The U.S. set the standard for personal freedoms for citizens but now I think the Us has been lagging a little bit putting corporate interests ahead of the peoples. Currently this is just a minor nuisance but could get bad if left unchecked. Eventually the world be completely connected ( all hail the internet) . And the best ideas will surface and eventually be accepted. Right now Everything has an American slant to it because Americans and American Corporations get these products and ideas to market to the widest spectrum of people eventually this will change. and we will all be better for it. but whatever ihave to get back to work.
It's all Politics
I recently visited Egypt, and while there, at least 5 or 6 different times had people come up saying something along the lines of "Hello!! Are you from America? Yes?? Hi Ho Silver!!"
:)
Very friendly people, and loved trying to use their english, and also saying "Hi ho silver!!!"
I'm sure that following shortly on the heels of WWE and Coca-cola will be the highly judgemental and anti-populist attitudes about such things. Your reaction to these things is also a part of the culture. Meanwhile, we should be kinda happy about the export of these other cultural notes:
...and much, much more.
- trial by jury
- women's rights
- end of torture
- highly productive economy
- separation of church and state
- education of the masses
- modern medicine
- multicultural tolerance
I don't like it, but I would say Seinfeld was one of the high points of unmistakably American culture- particularly the famous last episode which illustrates exactly what Seinfeld was about all along. Seinfeld is vicious, mean, cheap, self-absorbed, pitiless, joyless... the few times I saw it I just did NOT 'get' it, I couldn't see what the hell was supposed to be so funny about this hugely popular show. When I read about that final episode, that notorious final episode, then I got it, and I respected the nerve of it. Seinfeld was observational humor on a grand scale, and what was being observed was the practical result of Western culture and values- a fantastic integration of what you might call Western Corporate Capitalism into the characters' very psyches. They were pitiful, utterly isolated- the only interaction they could do with anything was the crudest sort of tearing-down. There were no connections, no social context for them, no home or support- the ultimate nihilism- and the show's observational humor was built on that void, which resonated with the American viewing audience.
That is why I think 'Seinfeld' is the ultimate expression of American Culture.
That is also why I think 'American Culture' as it stands today is poisonous and unworthy of being exported. It's like, you could have a form of cancer that infected really well, and spread really fast, making it by far the most efficient organism around- it just kills its host, woopsy. Is that a reason to infect people with it? "Look, it expands really fast! That must mean it's good for you!"
What do I think of American culture?
I think it would be a good idea.
Yes, I know it's probably redundant, but if this joke has been posted here then the original is already at -1 and I didn't get a chance to enjoy it again. No culture, no sense of humour, no cuisine... no wonder you people wig out over Monty Python and pizza.
They really played up that 'defame the Amish' show on NPR that you link to. It seemed like the liberals at NPR were actually gleeful in the endless promotional material they played in the weeks before the program. They also allowed the promotional spots to 'lead' the listener to believe the young Amish were engaging in orgies, rather than a little youthful drinking.
One can reject something one has been exposed to.
A meaningless phrase, as only individuals can have a "desire" for anything. Presumably it is shorthand for "the desire of certain people within Bhutan to prevent anyone in the country from having the option of adopting Western ways".
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
This produces drive. Drive to "get ahead", drive to "keep up with the Jonses", drive to get your butt off the sofa and finish that goddamn Great American Novel.
That a side effect of this institutionalized dissatisfaction is a household full of unneeded, worthless goods is a small price to pay, sez I.
The U.S. has done better than many countries in these areas, but we're far from perfect. Bhutan is far from perfect too. It might be a good idea to consider American failings before allowing the American cultural Juggernaut to roll into one of the last places on the planet that it hasn't already been. That having been said, I doubt that television will be the death knell of Bhutan's culture. There is always the option of not buying a TV set, or not watching it if the village buys one.
Still I do get tired of listening to defensive-sounding Americans brag about their culture. Like they invented all the things on that list.
- trial by jury
A good thing, if you can afford to get that far. Many more court cases are settled without trial (money buys justice) than ever go to trial.
- women's rights
U.S. laws protect women's rights to a degree, but there's still no equal rights amendment. And the laws' limited protection does not extend outside the U.S. The culture does, and the culture increasingly objectifies women. What I see happening is the exploitative culture is exported, while the laws that protect against the worst of the exploitation are not.
- end of torture
You might want to ask Amnesty International about that. The U.S. does not have a spotless track record, and often exports torture to other countries (avoiding for a moment the issue of whether Britney Spears videos ARE torture)
- highly productive economy
Which wouldn't look nearly so productive without the importation of cheap foreign-made goods, made by people who are, in every meaningful way, slaves.
- separation of church and state
On paper anyway.
- education of the masses
The why do American youth consistently score so very low compared to youth in other countries?
- modern medicine
Which is happily exported for a price... that few in Bhutan will ever be able to afford.
- multicultural tolerance
If Americans REALLY had multicultural tolerance they'd appreciate other cultures for more than just their restaurants and video games. They might actually learn more about other cultures than what their food tastes like and the names of all the Pokemon. And they wouldn't feel the need to crow all the time about how tolerant they are. It'd be a natural thing, like breathing.
Let's pass a law that requires all exported media to be labeled as "Made in Canada".
That way they will blame Canada instead of us. Of course, Canada will be pissed, but we can handle them.
Table-ized A.I.
What's so great about local culture that it must be preserved At All Costs?
What if these locals want to watch American television? Who are you to tell them that they are obligated to go meditate on snow or sing Bhutanese chants instead? Are the Bhutanese somehow obligated to maintain their current culture forever? What's it to you? And what happened to the idea of American culture being enriched by the contributions from abroad? Does it only work for us?
I'm not trying to annoy here, this is a serious question. If so-called cultural imperialism is done by request of the imperialized, what's the damage?
When I say WWF what do you think of first:
a) World Wrestling Federation
b) World Wildlife Fund
Aparently British courts believe that most people will answer B and have ruled that the (now) WWE no longer use WWF as people might confuse it with the World Wildlife Fund. It's obviously a bunch of white hairs (literally) frowning upon that rubbish on television in favor of the much more civilized environmentalists. It's not at all different than the myriad domain disputes that populate Slashdot, only this time both companies are big, its just that one is being discriminated against based on their content.
Of course I don't seriously expect the Slashdot crowd to care about wrasslin', but it's interesting to see that all courts can be dumb when deciding who gets to use what name, not just domain name courts.
Another example would be Buddweiser . I prefer the original but buying the real Buddweiser can get a little confusing especially when the American version calls itself original even though the Czech version has been around longer than America.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Here is definition 1. from dictionary.com
culture Pronunciation Key (klchr) n.
a) The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.
b) These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty.
c) These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture.
d) The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.
Again to suggest that America has no culture would be to suggest that nobody lives in the US or they have no patterns of behavior.
I can't believe it's not lard!
1.-Think Medicis
2.-It ain't racist, or even quasi-racist, if it's so. At that point it's an uncomfortable truth for the politically correct.
3.-Way of life. Culture. What's the diff?
4.-Oprah.
5.-I'm have a barbeque tomorrow. Fatty meat and Budweiser. Yummy.
Th point is that in most of the world, life is mostly vicious, bloody, and short, except for a small elite that occasionally also sponsors the art that becomes viewed as the culture.
America's broken that. The culture is actually in the hands of the middle class, which has totally bought into life as the pursuit of happiness.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
And there you fell for the trap. Hook line and sinker! Thanks...
The problem is that you think that French and California Cabris are two single distinct entities. When in fact a California Cabris is a single grower with a trademark like Coca Cola and a French Cabris has many growers. And just like you said now with your diference you will associate one bad French Cabris as all French Cabris being bad, since there is only a French Cabris and a Californian Cabris.
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
First that is a very narrow minded attitude. This is the reason why people get annoyed at American attitudes. Yes people want some parts of the American dream. But there is nothing wrong with that. Just like how Americans want part of the European dream, by driving European vehicles or using Swiss Showers (which btw I have no idea ever existed and I live in Switzerland).
The problem is that many American corps have an in your face attitude, whereas other global companies are not quite that bad. Consider Nestle, which is the biggest producer of food globally and they produce an almost majority of the processed food consumed by Americans. Does the average American know that? Not likely because Nestle is very deversified and adjusts their food to local cultures. Then consider Walmart, which tries to do everything their way. It works in the US, partially Canada and partially Mexico, but they are getting their butt kicked in Europe. Consider the opposite case of Carrefour which is kicking Walmarts butt globally by respecting local cultures. Not all American corps do this. A prime example are the music labels and MTV. They adjust their content respective to each country. In India MTV is VERY different than MTV in America or MTV in Europe. MTV adjusts to local tastes and languages. Or even CNN. CNN Europe (CNN Spain, CNN Italy, CNN Germany) is not CNN America.
That is my point. There are ways to become a dominate company globally...
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
I find it interesting that people from other country use McDonalds as an example of whats 'bad' with american culure. Yet enough people in other countries still go to one to keep them in epanding further.
If it is so terrible, why are there lines?
If it wasn't for the spread of American culture, the Cold war would still be on.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I don't even want to think about that.
I get my valuesystem from the web and thats the way I likes it
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Taliban Afghanistan banned television before legalized it. So you could have moved from Butan to Afghanistan. If you wanted to.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
You're right on about that one - for at least some types of music isn't too terribly difficult to automatically sythesize on-the-fly according to taste.
Also, I'd add "Pornmachines" to that list a little later... then I'd get to be director. :)
--
Power to the Peaceful
What is the opposite of "pro-life"?
"anti-life" or "pro-death"?
APart from the health issues of marketing
caffeinated sugar water, there's the Coke
company's responsibility for the decline of
Indonesia's tea-related traditions, for example.
And the same applies to Native Americans
and many others in the US. Soon the Bhutanese
will decide what is worth preserving and
they will hold on to it despite having
ready access to things like WWF.
But they didn't lose controll untill 2001, so you could have goten 2 more years of of freedom from other people watching TV if you had wanted to.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Sorry if I gave the impression that I was insulting wrestling, I use the term "wrasslin" purley out of affection. Though this is neither the topic nor the forum, I've got the karma to burn so who cares. I too am a fan of our beloved "sports entertainment" even during the last year or so of its doldrums. I've watched the mess that was the ungodly wcw/ecw invasion and the crap that followed. All so I could occasionally get a good Kurt Angle or Chris Benoit match.
Wrestling is one of those interesting things (at least to me) whose value can't really be explained. It's grown men in their underwear pretending to fight, and yet theres something more to it. Something that makes 4 hours of crappy television worth 15 minutes of gold. In few other venues of entertainment would the fans say "this products sucks and I do not enjoy watching it," and yet continue to watch. It's because at some point, be it when you met the much maligned Von Erics, or when I saw the Undertaker debut (on TV, never been to a live show) something so enjoyable happens that you're desperate to get that back.
I'm a fan of football and baseball, yet what are often heralded as some of the greatest moments in those sports (such as Oaklands game saving catch over the wall a couple of nights ago) can't begin to compare with the elation I feel when watching RVD and Eddie Gurrero in a ladder match. I knew who was going to win that match before it started, just like you know the good guy is going to win at the end of practically every movie you see, but it's the process of getting from the beginning to the inevitable end that you're interested in.
Saddly, it seems like the true artists in wrestling have never really gotten their fair shake in the big times, they sit somewhere in the middle of the card providing the real entertainment, while the guys who can talk decently get the top story lines and drive the shows. Granted it would probably be a dull time if all we got was technical wrestling. After all, we need to have some idea of why these two men in their underwear are pretending to fight.
Anyway, all that aside, I don't "suggest" anyone try to like wrestling. It's like Linux or vi, you know what it is and what it's all about. If your the kind of person who would be interested in one of those things you'll eventually find your way to, no amount of forcing someone to use either or watch wrestling is going to make them like it.
I find it funny that despite my defence of it, and how much I enjoy parts of wrestling, stating such things still caries a stigma like no other. You can be a fan of allot of silly or lude things and not get half the ridicule you'll draw by stating you are a fan of wrestling. Everyone just assumes your that you're an idiot who thinks it's real, or phenominally childish. I guess wrestling earned it's reputation though, considering such a large amount of the show is very childish... oh well, such is life.
Well it works like this,
People who think xyz are evil and should be shunned.
so you keep your thoughts inside your head where know-one will see them.
Are you free?
In the EU it is a criminal offence to say the the holocast never happened, even if you believe that to be the case.
You can't call that freedom?
thank God the internet isn't a human right.