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Blender Community Rescues Sources
Christoffer Green writes "Today the Blender funding campaign went through the 100k limit,
sufficient now to pay for the ransom fee needed to make Blender Open
Sourced. The Blender Foundation aims to have the deal signed before
October 1, do a pre-release for donating members only at October 5,
organize a Blender Conference in Amsterdam October 11-12-13, and make
the official CVS release on October 13 for everyone.
This doesn't mean that you should stop donating though. The foundation
still depends on your contributions to cover costs that have been made."
as far as I can see, E100K has actually been paid. Another E8455 is 'pending', so they already should have some funds for their expenses.
Great news!
So, blender is what? I gather its some product that we're buying from its stockholders. I've got to say, its a really neat idea, buying off a broduct to make it open source.
Mod point free since 2001
Hopefully this will be a tend of things to come. Esentially this will allow for more users in the future, on more platforms. It even allows the possibility of selling the compiled project with the helpful additions from the OpenSource communitity, with the exception of making sure that the source is still available (under GPL).
-- Never monkey with another Monkey's monkey
Well, some expenses (like running the website) are ongoing, though. That buffer'll keep 'em for a bit, but we probably should drop some change into the till now and then to keep them going.
DNA just wants to be free...
Congratulations Blender!
I take it that there are at the moment no viable 3D rendering programs for Linux but that will change with the OS release of Blender.
What other software categories are still missing or are clearly inferior to the commercial/Windows versions?
Could this become a (potentially bad) habit?
Karma: Good! Napster: Baad!
If you had actually spent 5 minutes and READ the blender pages, you would have learned its a multiplatform 3d grapics tool.
During your short read you could have even downloaded the last 'free' version in binary format ( its under 2mb ).. and SEEN what the fuss is about.. Or looked at tons of images..
Geesh. suppose you want everything spoon fed...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I could swear, these things cost much less than that
So, that means I can go back to linux and stop using my warez 3D programs? Heh.
Now all that is left is to convert those files...
Nah! *Intravenously* please!!
I won't go to all that effort to open my mouth so somebody can shove a *spoon* in it.
The company who owns blender burned what, E10mil?, in the last 2 years... on what? I still remember the loudmouth directing the company telling everybody who wanted to hear it that blender would be so profitable... What did he do with all the funds he raised? Will the people who invested in the company be thrilled the source is sold for 100K? I don't think so.
Besides, blender the product, is ok, but the interface is so darn goofy it takes a hell of a lot of time to get used to it, especially when you compare it to the big boys in 3D world: 3DSMax, lightwave and Maya
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
What about Povray? The source is available for that (and has been for sometime). All you need is a frontend! Why spend 100k?
For an example, click here.
Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.
I always thought the remarks that robot made were witty and funny.
Now that we get to tweak with him I hope we can do some really cool things and find out what the heck he really keeps in that chest of his.
Well, now we'll all get a look under his 'hood'.
Oh, wait, you mean Blender that 3D modeling program... shit what do we want that for?
Get the robot instead!
Get your Unix fortune now!
I think I know the first thing I'm going to do when the source gets released -- fix all those bizzare GUI widgets.
The "click on this side of the button to increase the value, click on the other side to decrease, and drag to change smoothly" (all on a standard-looking button) is really dumb.
I'm not sure the method for using it should change that much, but it could at least seriously use some visual affordances.
DNA just wants to be free...
I wouldn't know what to do with blender but I understand many of you would. I have to say I'm quite impressed by the swiftness of this code rescue. makes you think we're not all just trying to get free stuff. perhaps this will lead people to do the same in future instances for money-calls. This shows it can be done.
-
Bite my shiny metal add!
Someone was going to say it...
.... to making all software open source for the betterment of mankind.... :D
- - Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand. - -
It's GREAT to see this happen. I've dreamed of an open 3d platform for years now, literally.
:(
It's a shame, though, in another sense. I wish we could standardise on an underlying multimedia codec layer, before worrying about what we've got on top of that
Whenever you mention Blender to someone, they will give you one of two responses:
a. anyone who has taken time to learn it will say its awesome
b. anyone else will say something like "what the hell do all these buttons do?"
Can you think of any program whose UI isn't confusing the first few times you try it?
Everyone is born right-handed; only the greatest overcome it
Just not your day is it?
After trying to use Blender for some work in my Multimedia class this summer, I must say it's UI needs either (a) ALOT of work, or (b) some decent documentation created. Scouring the web for hours for vague tutorials that touch on one aspect at a time of what you are trying to do, having google constantly open alongside so you can do searches on how to do the simplest actions, this is just not an option for most people. I know some people have argued that the key combos are easy after you learn them, but without someone to TEACH them to you they are almost impossible to learn.
That being said, I would like to endorse KPovModler for people looking to do some 3D graphics with a decent interface. It does what it does well, and was simple to pick up and use.
publishing the full Blender sources, including old and new development, under the GNU GPL license ('Free Software'). The NaN mobile technology will not be included in this/i?
I applaud the whole effort but why is the mobile tech excluded?
Great question! Viruses? Heh. OK, seriously...:
DVD-Video creation.
From capture to encoding to muxing the bits together with navigation, and burning. There are many such tools available for Windows.
I know `dvdrtools` works at burning pure-data DVD's, but to burn DVD Video you have all these other steps before it, and the toolchain does not exist in Linux.
DVD Video is an area that will lag on Linux for a LOooong time? Why? Because the software comes FREE with DVD-Recorders, so there's an incentive to dual-boot. If you don't like that gratis authoring package, many people will (like it or not) grab DVD Maestro or something, off Gnutella or Kazaa networks.
So there is not enough DVD authoring on Linux: not for commercial packages (if there is even one DVD suite on Linux, it certainly ain't sub-$500), and not for the glory of being the first GPL toolchain. The specs are scarce, development is hard and it's too much for one developer looking to provide us with a solution, no matter how much glory there is in doing so. It's a brutal, team-based development project spanning several domains of expertise.
I'm glad to see this succeed, and I'd like to see this new type of "market" compete with both commercial software, and the pure-free stuff we already enjoy. The competition will give us what we need, and may the best team win!
How often did you re-load the Blender money meter?
(*) Hourly
(*) Daily
(*) Weekly
(*) Fortnightly
(*) Cowboyneal
Sure, this is a great step forward... ...but is there a team to look after it?
Is the team allready on other oss model projects? (eg. do they know what they're getting into?)
But aside from that, I think this must be the most brilliantly divised way too make money from OSS...
Is Tuxracer up next?
Moderation: +4. Modded 70% Funny and 30% Overrated. 100% Saturated.
Remove the chain in that image awwready. It's 'Free'd.
My photolog
The ironic thing is, some commercial software actually costs that much! sometimes just for one license. Its amazing how much money people will pay if they think its going to work better (and if their company is writing the cheque :)
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Just thought I'd mention that due to a generous money donation by a private sponsor, the LinuxTrade software was converted to the GPL on 08/30/02.
This is a great trend, IMHO.
It's very impressive that the community has enough passion the keep blender alive. (I wonder if the Be community would have done the same thing.)
But I was looking at the licensing and it looks as if they are going to offer a dual license setup that's not unlike Trolltech's for Qt.
Given that Trolltech doesn't seem to be doing too bad as a business I was wondering if the community just funded a new money making entity.
Did any of the contributors get any vested interest in Blender itself. If it was only GPL that would be one thing. The fact that the foundation also has a mechanism for making a profit makes me look twice.
anybody thought of setting up a fund to get things like views and other missing features into mysql?
If you interested in what Blender can do (as I was), check out the galleries.
:)
I was pleasantly surprised. I'm sure you will be too.
Actually, just seeing the galleries makes me what to donate some money.
Has Apple done this in any other fields? Is this a good or really stupid strategy?
It took me a bit of googling to find it, but what NaN did here seems similar to the Street Performer Protocol. I've often wondered whether or not something along those lines would work from an open-source perspective (i.e. "I've got this game, and I'll GPL it if I get $X"). It's nice to see that, apparently, it can.
Of course, Blender is relatively well known and had the benefit of being freely available in the beer sense. Starting something from scratch using this model might be a bit more difficult.
-Denor
Promises are not easily forgotten. Who is the lucky person who gets the T-shirt?
Visit The Fucking Web Site
...or just post "what is it" on Slashdolt and get +4 Informative. Very informative indeed.
I've been waiting for the 100K to be collected for a while, so that I could check out Blender on an Ultra-SPARC II workstation I have running Linux, but they only have the binaries for i386, and alpha. I was meaning to donate this weekend to help speed up getting to check it out, and I think I still will, to help them out with the expenses of getting everything settled. Not that anybody really cares what I have to say. :p
Fare thee well, poor comment. For thou hast been cast out amongst wolves.
ProTools is the one software package that has kept me from switching to a 100% OSS system at home. My band does all of it's recording in my home studio and I've been waiting for something like this for years.
I'll certainly be keeping my eye on this project as it develops, looking forward to 1.0
Thanks again, and keep up the great work!
Membership will be still required for ... access to CVS
May I ask what CVS is? My search found "control vertex's" (CVs), but I doubt that is the right match.
The open source world could really use a fully functional CAD/CAM package, too :D
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The unobviousness of the interface was an important part of their business model.
They made a free software package that was very difficult to use unless you had the manual... and they charged you for the manual.
Blenders back end is amazing, but the interface is based upon enabling a slow and inefficient style of modelling that is no longer usable for comercial production.
,x/y/z/xy/yz/xz separation of input, etc would be good too. This and the ability to save and easily modify these active planes (for input) would make blender much more powerful and allow work to be done in a single perspectival window (maybe with small orthographic views for newbies who don't dream in wireframe and can't see it in perspective)
... I need pictures. Code the point/control point location as an equation taking things like remaining tangential to this point, and maintaining a right angle between these two sections and remaining within a certain part of the length of this line in a way that is dynamically updatable. Do that and make it stable and easy to learn and the modelling world will stop and praise you!
It has many things that commercial packages do not have. What it lacks is predominantly in the interface. Yes I have used it, and much more advanced (and expensive) packages.
It needs to move away from the three orthographic views for modelling, one perspectival view for visualisation mode of design, where people use ten moves in three windows to achieve what should have happened in one move with ABSOLUTE ACCURACY using object snaps. The people who do this in front of me, then tell me that they are saving time. They continue to say this when they are in living hell later on when they need to use boolean operations or anything advanced with their mess of a model. I would find it funny, were it not for the human tragedy (DON'T THINK THAT'S A JOKE)
In order to move away from this interface mode, Blender will need to separate the viewport from the active plane (the co-ordinate system being used for input and editing of objects) and implement GOOD snapping for endpoints, midpoints and center points as an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM. snap to face
The other enhancement NEEDED is an improved HEIRACHICAL layer structure. The present collection of little buttons that pass for a layer structure are humerous if you don't actually try to use them. A layer structure with grouping, toggleable visability, snapability, selectability and lock status is part of modelling. If this could be used to facilitate object selection, apply heirachic object propeties according to group membership, and be extended to transparently allow for the division of the project into blocks (separate files, I think this is practically done) that could be used simultaneously by a range of designers on different tasks, then Blender would be up there with some of the best editors in existence. (Moving the configuration stuff into dialogs and/or running it vertically would help the interface a lot too. The basic layout of the buttons is very pixel hungry)
These things are not big additions compared to the amazing stuff already in there, but I haven't seen and no doubt wouldn't understand the code involved. I know nothing about it's language and the developers have been too defensive about their interface to be worth approaching.
To be the worst nightmare of EVERY commercial 3D/4D modelling/rendering program around, here are some non interface related suggestions:
It should improve the granularity of it's sub-object editing. Selection, deletion and insertion of points, lines, curves, faces, subfaces, control points etc, and their simultaneous selection at a range of levels (select different points, lines, faces and objects and move them with a single operation.:-) This will bring blender up to spec with some of the most efficient and intuitive modelling tools around.
To take a leaf from some of the work in development at microstation (I am not from microstation. Sorry microstation, you should have continued your support for Linux) They are working on some seriously cool new tools that TOTALLY BLEW MY MIND. I would leave unix forever for this.
Ready, They are working on something like a GUI integrated development environment for the back end scripting of models as part of the standard modelling tools, so that you can use a GUI to tell a point to remain at the
Anyway that's probably long enough.
No warranty of any kind is offered as to the quality of this post.
They have got to get a better name. "Blender" sounds like a virus that scrambles files.
Suggestions: Vertexasour, 3Diggit, Rendon, Rendall, Renderex, Animatrix, Vectron, PenguinSeer, Envisionator.....
Table-ized A.I.
Nah, you have viruses... Even metamorphic ones at that. See: http://www.virusbtn.com/magazine/archives/200207/e tap.xml
Score:-1, Funny
And decent burning. We have strayed a little from the file=everything model (I think) for linux re removable media. I would like to burn DVD-anythings using the mount tool.
No warranty of any kind is offered as to the quality of this post.
A lot of people have been talking about the usability of the Blender interface.
Now obviously I am not the first one to admit that it's not incredibly strait forward. Usually if I have taken some time away from blender, it takes me a while to get back into the groove of things.
However, one thing I have noticed. Once you actually DO get used to the interface, everything starts to feel natural. You stop thinking about how you use its features... you just USE them.
Blender is not your typical mouse interface. To use blender properly you need both hands.
However... is starting to get a bit dated compared to the many of the other 3d modelers out there. But this is why we are getting the source!
I hope a lot of the people who actually DO work with the source, understand just how uniquely useful the interface actually can be.
A good in-program tutorial would probably go a LONG way toward the usability problem. I should be able to say... I wish to perform this task... show me how to do it!
Now someone mentioned the widgets being a little weird... Yes I agree that's true. Take up too much space? They are 3d widgets! Zoom out some. (Although yes, you do waste some space on the sides when you do this... =/)
I actually kind of like how the widgets work. If you need to set an absolute value, shift click and enter the value you really wanted.
Again, I hope that when blender actually does end up being hacked to pieces (think mozilla)... that the developers take into consideration that quite a few of the interface features actually do work... and are fairly comfortable to use.
So yes... Blender is starting to show its age. But think of it this way, right now Blender is kind of like Netscape 4.x. Give the community a year or two with the source, and you might just see some amazing things done with it.
Now... I'm probably not the first one to think that Mozilla was over engineered. Although I hope the same thing won't happen to blender... Mozilla eventually did turn out alright. And who hasn't been accused of over engineering? I know I have =)
Luke
Doesn't the GPL require source be freely available? I'm not sure how you can call it GPL and all that, but then hold the source hostage for ransom. Something doesn't seem quite right...
Well the windows style interface, I can't remenber the name of the first windowing interface I used,was about 13 years ago on a 286, a bit like windows, b+w i think. Had a few applications and a graphics viewer.
It was very easy to use.
Anyone got any ideas, it'd be nice to dig up again.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Look into cinlerra, a full-featured video editing and compositing system for Linux.
I had one, but the wheel fell off.
Blender3d.com:
"Dual License:
The Foundation release will be apt to a dual license, meaning that it's not only GNU GPL, but that the Foundation has the right to license it to third parties under a different licensing agreement. The aim of the dual license is to provide income to cover foundation expenses, and to enable companies to make use of the Blender code without the need of GPL-ing their own work."
Richard Stallman:
"Strictly speaking, the GPL is a license from the developer for others to use, distribute and change the program. The developer itself is not bound by it, so no matter what the developer does, this is not a 'violation' of the GPL.
However, if the developer does something that would violate the GPL if done by someone else, the developer will surely lose moral standing in the community."
Myself (off ElYsiun's site):
"I suppose if a Blender software program and its code is released By NaN under the GPL and is subsequently modified/'upgraded' by another separate party or parties- as per the aforementioned freedom to do so- and then redistributed- presumably under the same GPL- NaN could pick it up and 'reverse engineer' or 'infer' the improvements to the code in order to create new software under the new kind of license."
Maybe the previous GPL volunteer coders could be bought-off by NaN to then work for the proprietary Blender, ay?
Money money money money...
Last time I looked, the ball-&-chain was still around Blender's ankles.
I had a bit of a search and found
GEM
by digital research, very easy to use, back in the 80's!
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
That being said, I would like to endorse KPovModler
Hmmm. Looks like no Windows version, at least not without a lot of compiling and fiddling.
...but Slashdot's system seems to require the re-inputting of my password after preview of post.
While I'm here, here's s'more from http://www.elysiun.com/news.php?id=14:
Ton:
"Key issue is, will people just pay for Blender becoming free, or are people selfish calculating consumers who want exclusive value for their money?
I would like to hear some remarks on this issue."
"This attitude that your comments seem to suggest... I don't know... perish the thought of selfish, calculating business people...
As you know, there are many ways of contributing, Ton. Your hypothetical selfish, calculating consumers could very well become important Blender contributors.
I refuse to pay a thing, and there are other open source solutions out there that are getting better as we speak."
----------------- Given that a cent went indeed, unsent, My name'll be left unseen in the credits on the screen.
Well, the source won't actually be available until next month, they say, so until everything is settled, let's see what will happen...
Besides, as in the case of Kevin Mitnick, we all absolutely need to keep the "FREE BLENDER" .pngs on the websites for years and years. I mean, just say, "who cares if the source was released last year, it won't truly be free until we Fight?" =)
Then, you will be fighting for the remaining 10% with one or two other suppliers, over whom you have little or no competitive advantage. It's workable, but you're never going to make a killing.
Sure you may like the ethics, but really it's not the best way of running a business (and this from a man who believes in business ethics)
Free MP3! Let's buy the patent from Frogginhopper.
I wonder if 'blender' means something interesting in norwegien, being that the Netherlands are the alleged origin of the software.
Table-ized A.I.
There is to my knowledge no open source (3D) CAD program out there, possibly with full AutoCAD compatibility. Somebody care to put up a foundation to buy DesignCAD 3D? That would make a nice base ...
"I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
A few weeks back they were discussing import and export. XML is basically going to happen, so it shouldn't be to hard to either translate that or just pitch into the development to make sure it speaks the same (or close enough) XML dialect as the renderer of your choice.
The existing binary format is very small and fast, but also very much a hack. If you could invent something that was still small and fast, yet consistent and flexible enough to implement all of the new stuff they're planning after the stable/free release, you'd make a hero of yourself.
Using the format of other editors or renderers may involve IP deadfalls, but if you can safely adapt a good file format, that would be fine.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
A genuine apology on SlashDot! Not the slightest tongue-in-cheek, no barbs, no shred of kickback or resentment. +1 Astonishing! (-: Woo-hoo! :-)
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
People ranting about Blenders GUI don't know what they're talking about and usually don't know much about 3D - or Blender, for that matter.
While the learning curve is steep, once one has grasped it, everything falls into place and Blender becomes the 3D Workplace you'll never want to miss.
In fact Blender has one of the most sophisticated GUIs out there. Its workspace management is unmatched, the OO structure using GL for rendering the controls is elegant and fast and the shortcuts are countless but still manage to be intutive.
Unlike the utterly senseless habit of the OSS community of tearing everything apart in zillion little windows like Gimp of Sodipody - what a shame. A strategy thats absolutely wrong for these kind of programms.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
People raving about Blenders GUI don't know what they're talking about and usually don't know much about 3D - or professional 3D modelling tools for that matter. They think that tools like 3D Studio are some kind of benchmark. I agree that Blender is more advanced in some ways than lower end tools like 3D Studio, but it is designed to facilitate an archaic approach to modelling that is simply not scalable above quite small and very simple objects.
In fact Blender has a simple low end GUIs. Its workspace management is an area in which it's notably poor, the OO structure using GL for rendering the controls is elegant and fast and the shortcuts are countless but should be easily configurable/personalisable.
It could benifit greatly from breaking the pseudo pallettes up into pallettes that can be easily launched with keystrokes. Loosing pixel space for a pallette that you used three minuites ago is insane, and loosing it in the vertical axis is just stupid. An argument could be made for running a strip vertically in the modelling window instead of horizontally (like the object heirachy). Many systems do this and it works MUCH better. The current system makes it a bit hard to use three or four monitors, but unlike other systems, this cluster of an interface NEEDS a couple of screens on which to sprawl.
I refer you to my earlier statements to explain what I feel blender needs to come up to spec.
No warranty of any kind is offered as to the quality of this post.
I really don't know what your talking about. Are we talking about the same Programm? What is it that Blender supposedly can't handle large models? We all know Blenders booleans suck - but large models?
Ok, it lacks certain features, but now where on earth is the Programm that beats Blenders unique interface to being a reference for how things can be streamlined?
Missing configuration of shortcuts? That's not a reason to overthrough the whole thing. That can easyly be added on. And what makes you think you could actually improve restricted 2D Workspace Management beyond the one other detail of Blender that maybe needs finetuning? How do you toggle Screens and active-window-fullscreen in *your* 3D package? Telepathy?
Don't get me wrong: Blender needs improvement. But improvement of the *existing* interface and feature set, such like: Object view sort grid (you say better herachy in the other post), proximity alignment (u call it "snapping"), undo (this shure is some bizar odity of B., I'll give you that), spline import, better rendering and some rough edges of the button layout. These are *all* things that don't interfere with Blenders existing philosophy of the GUI.
I really don't get your point and calling 3DSMax a "low end 3D tool" dosn't help it. I don't like those wannabees thinking 3DSM is the cream of the crop just like you I guess - but gee wiz, "low end tool"...- that's leaning a bit far out, don't you think?
Are we talking past one another?
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I think perhaps we are having a linguistic disagreement on many issues.
I'm not saying the philosophy of the coding of the GUI is bad. Of course you model with one hand on the keyboard. Some elements of the GUI make it unusable with modern modelling techniques. THIS is my problem with blender. The GUI is archaic because it only streamlines archaic modelling techniques and so cannot efficiently produce big models. It seems to be more focussed on animation.
I think that Blender is amazing and has a great deal of potential. When I say that it cannot support big/complex files I am not refering to its program structures. I am refering to its user interface. It seems to be well suited to the development of small characters or furniture but it lacks a few things needed for fast development of big/complex files, most notably:
1. separate the co-ordinate system from the viewpoint. (This will require some very difficult mapping with possibly very big numbers in perspective towards the horizon). The grid that is already there for the absolute co-ordinate system could be used to mark the active co-ordinate system. It could easily be set to automatically change the co-ordinate system to the viewpoint's plane for authographic views to allow older style 3D modelers and people who think in 2D to keep using the four pane system.
2. Fix/make the layer structure. (Perhaps merge it with the object hierachy pane from the main window) If you want to unhide a building, unhide the building's group . If you want to texture map every piece of timber in the building then select the timber group. If you want to switch off snapping for the timber wall framing, swith it off and if you want to move the nogging between all of the studs in the building, then select that. This for me is the primary function of a layer/object/group structure. If multiple group structures were possible, then that would be cool but the tools for doing this efficiently don't exist. I have maintained a dual heirachy (Layer and group) for a number of models and it's a head fuck. (a very usefull head fuck when it comes to documentation.) Make it automatically structure the object heirachy in a usable manner that can be viewed in a THIN window and it'll be fantastic.
I hold these to be BIG problems with elements of the GUI
Fixing the button pane somehow is just to make the thing more convenient, It doesn't actually prevent using the program for big models. I suggested perhaps by running it vertically or putting it into dialogs (That can be moved onto other monitors). It is annoying on small monitors and laptops to have to resize the button box to see all of the buttons. I remember using little monitors at Uni. Not everyone has a 21 inch monitor. Even on a 21" monitor, people usually like big view windows.
Fix these two elements and blender will be usable. I repeat, blender has the potential to be fantastic. At the moment it's a bit like writing an OS in fortran.
p.s. perhaps saying MAX is "low end" was a little cheeky:-)
No warranty of any kind is offered as to the quality of this post.
Some people (a lot of Germans apparently) have been using gaming engines to make movies quickly and easily. Perhaps you could output frames from something like that to a cluster server running lots of little povrays. WOW! THAT would be cool. Even if it wasn't a cluster, you could render an 8 min raytraced animation in a small office overnight.
Perhaps they could have an OS short film industry. NOW THAT WOULD FREAK OUT THE RIAA!
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