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What The Net is Doing to You

Bart writes "The BBC reports One of the world's first research centres dedicated to studying the social, political and economic effects of the net has opened in Oxford" I've offered to trade CowboyNeal to them as a research subject for a case of beer. I think studying the effects of the internet on him will save lives. See? Someone is thinking of the children.

174 comments

  1. Effects of the Net by deadhammer · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Net has great and ponderous effects, such as creating studies to show the great and ponderous effects of the net.

    --
    I'll be honest, we're throwing science against the wall to see what sticks. -Cave Johnson
    1. Re:Effects of the Net by netclift · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you want some links on the Internet and politics, check out my "e-democracy resources" flyer: http://www.publicus.net/articles/edemresources.htm l

      You can also join DO-WIRE: http://www.e-democracy.org/do

      Here are some recent subject lines from the archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/do-wire@tc.umn.edu/

      [DW] Vox Populi, Online and Downtown - NYTimes Article, Steven Clift

      [DW] Die Online-Kampagnen der Parteien Event - Berlin - 19 Oct. 2002, Steven Clift

      [DW] Correction - Oct 1 - Re: [DW] Die Online-Kampagnen der Parteien, Steven Clift

      [DW] E-Gov Conference - Korea - 6-7 Nov 2002, Steven Clift

      [DW] [IP] Student Blogs, School Cracks Down (fwd), Steven Clift

      [DW] Carnegie Mellon Team Wins $2.1 Million to Build Online Forum forCitizen Deliberation (fwd), Steven Clift

      [DW] Online Campaigning 2002: A Primer - Institute for Politics, Democracy and the Internet, Steven Clift

      [DW] Publication - Making a case for local e-government (fwd), Steven Clift

      [DW] Paris, Warsaw, Vilnius, Lisbon - Clift Speaking Schedule, Future Requests, Steven Clift

      [DW] New Public Sphere: Technology and Politics in Sweden 1969-1999 - Lars Ilshammar PhD Dissertation, Steven Clift

      [DW] Parliamentary E-Democracy Inquiry, Key Documents - State of Victoria, Australia, Steven Clift

      [DW] US Election 2002 - Senate Campaign E-mail Lists - Wellstone at 25,000, Steven Clift

      [DW] GILC Alert - China, Vietnam, Egypt, Iran ... and more, Steven Clift

      [DW] Recycling Day - Two Items, Steven Clift

      [DW] Voting Technology Glitches in Florida Primary, Steven Clift

      [DW] MyBallot.net - New service from E-Democracy - details and press release, Steven Clift

      [DW] Netactivism-Oriented Conference Calendar, Steven Clift

      [DW] UK Political Participation Online Survey Results - From ERSC, Univof Salford, Steven Clift

      --
      http://www.publicus.net http://www.opengroups.org
  2. Interesting, but how much will it proove? by tyrani · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The Internet is a dynamic place. I don't think that a traditional study can accuratly describe the effects that it has on us.

    I think that this study will be outdated as soon as it is written.

    --
    rejected (19) accepted (0)
    Is there a psychological term related to getting your stories rejected on slashdot?
    1. Re:Interesting, but how much will it proove? by Hittite+Creosote · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dynamic is one thing, but if the internet changed fundamentally every six months, the average person wouldn't be able to understand it enough to use it. If you look at things in general sweeping terms, the change is not happening so rapidly that it is impossible to comment on them. Even if it was, if can't know where you are going, you could at least know where you've been.

    2. Re:Interesting, but how much will it proove? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
      if the internet changed fundamentally every six months, the average person wouldn't be able to understand it enough to use it.
      The average person doesn't understand the Internet enough to actually use it! Hell, most people have trouble with the difference between "Preview" and "Subm
    3. Re:Interesting, but how much will it proove? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dissagree.
      I think the web is simple enough for idiots these days. I think it has had a measurable affect on the world that can be documented. Such a study would be looking at the socio economic affects of the web. Not weather or not you feel superior enough to say "you're too stupid to use this."

    4. Re:Interesting, but how much will it proove? by flufffy · · Score: 2
      I don't think that a traditional study can accuratly describe the effects that it has on us.

      It's not a study. It's a research centre. It will probably produce studies.

  3. Research on the geek creature should be next.... by acehole · · Score: 1, Funny

    Perhaps science could explain why direct sunlight and fresh air kills us so quickly?

    --
    Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
  4. This is silly by chainrust · · Score: 0, Troll

    It is silly to waste my hard-earned money on a research center when many internet researchers have already done research without a center.

  5. well... by chegosaurus · · Score: 5, Funny

    It broadens the mind by introducing you to subgenres of pr0n that you never knew existed.

    1. Re:well... by hitzroth · · Score: 1

      Broadens the mind by introducing you to subgenres of damn near anything, if you look hard enough. Also, it helps teach you good research technique... so you can ignore those skills when you post to Slashdot. ;-)

      --
      In mathematics, one does not understand things, one merely gets used to them.
      --VonNeumann
    2. Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes If it weren't for the internet I would have never known about Christmas Island and goat catchers.

    3. Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also broadens other things... ortifices for example...

  6. Whoa... by Modern+Hamlet · · Score: 1

    Eli Noam, Professor of Economics and Finance at the University of Columbia, said... "We must save the internet from its founding myth that it is good for democracy and is open and cannot be regulated." I don't even have anything to say to this... besides, I'm sure the rest of you will. peace, tom

    1. Re:Whoa... by jodo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "We must save the internet from its founding myth that it is good for democracy and is open and cannot be regulated."
      Yes. There it is. They know better than you what you should be done with the net.

      --

      "Don't Follow Leaders." Bob Dylan
  7. Future Father ???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    So you're thinking about having children?

    Taco is really starting to settle down isn't he.

  8. Lots of people are thinking of the children... by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    www.thinkofthechildren.co.uk


    Sure, it's off topic, but I have karma to burn.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Lots of people are thinking of the children... by Jugalator · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Yup, don't we adore the people thinking about the children? :-)

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    2. Re:Lots of people are thinking of the children... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like something Jocelyn Elders would babble about.

    3. Re:Lots of people are thinking of the children... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She sure does have a purdy mouth.

  9. Political Debate Indeed by passthecrackpipe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Heh. There is a photo of some shirtless, tatooed protester swinging a punch to a policeman, with as caption:"The net could help improve political debate". Anybody else thinks the BBC has a strange idea of political debate? Besides, how is the net going to improve political debate, or at least raise it above the level depicted in that photo? Soon, we'll all be wetware-wired into the net, and then, instead of beating you with a stick, the cops i'll just fry your brains instead. It's called progress.

    --
    People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
    1. Re:Political Debate Indeed by October_30th · · Score: 3, Funny

      Swinging a punch to a policeman or a politician is a common form of political debate in the UK. You see, the politicians will punch you back.

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    2. Re:Political Debate Indeed by Observer · · Score: 1
      Anybody else thinks the BBC has a strange idea of political debate?
      Well, the corporation is supposed to providea balanced coverage of different points of view, which many people probably would find a strange idea in the context of political debate.

      But juxtaposing "could help improve political debate" with a picture of a demonstrator attacking a policeman sounds more like the customary addition of irony, whether it improves the story or not. I sometimes wonder whether budding journalists or presenters at the Beeb have to take some sort of entrance examination to demonstrate they can do this.

    3. Re:Political Debate Indeed by hey! · · Score: 2

      here is a photo of some shirtless, tatooed protester swinging a punch to a policeman, with as caption:"The net could help improve political debate"

      Ummm, so it's OK if he puts his shirt back on?

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:Political Debate Indeed by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      BBC News online has a fine tradition of banal or inappropriate picture 'bylines'. NTK has chronicled many, such as: 0, 1, 2.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    5. Re:Political Debate Indeed by SacredNaCl · · Score: 1

      The most evil force on the planet isn't politicians, or armies, or even nuclear weapons. It's marketing. Marketing seeks to subjugate the will of all of mankind to its wishes.

      The Internet has brought us a whole new world of marketing, and for once, users have some of the tools to filter it out. It's also a diverse enough media that it's beyond the control of a small group of people. This hasn't stopped them from trying, and the authors of that article are precisely the kind of people who would try to control it "for your benefit, because they know better than you".

      "We need academics to be leaders not cheerleaders," he said.

      "We must save the internet from its founding myth that it is good for democracy and is open and cannot be regulated."

      Bah Humbug!

      Why do people do this kind of research? They do it for marketing purposes & little else.
      They want to use it as a tool to control, enslave, and sell. Point, click, & buy - that is their vision of the net. This guy might as well of been talking about trend setters, selling Nike's, and managing information flows for public relations companies. The conversation would flow seamlessly if he did. Their goal isn't human understanding, it's how to use human understanding for branding, manipulating beliefs, keeping control of the rabble, and selling a bag of goods.

      ...The people who will benefit the most from his work will be the very same Public Relations & Marketing companies who twist & distort the other media but are having some problems learning to adapt to the new one. They are trying things, and learning to spin it as well.

      "The tools to go 'beyond' the 10 or so sites most users visit are there. 90% of them wont do it. Thus you can concentrate your efforts on the 10 or 20 most common trafficked sites for maximum impact of story placement." --- From an PR Manual of a major PR company located in NYC. (company omitted as I can't afford the lawsuit right now). This is what this guy is really about.

      --
      Freedom is merely privilege extended unless enjoyed by one and all.
  10. Katz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm, why does this smell like a Katz story. You know the kind where instant messaging has a deep and profound impact on all of civilization and that we must study it and talk about our "feelings" towards it.

  11. Re:Research on the geek creature should be next... by Theodore+Logan · · Score: 1, Funny

    Sunlight and fresh air is good for you! I can't believe you didn't know that. Christ, some people...

    Now, with that out of the way, let's discuss what it may be about eating other things than pizza that causes all these heart problems.

    --

    "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance" - Derek Bok

  12. Social Engineering by gerf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is what this article sounds like. As if they want to be able to control the entire world's perception of the internet, and how they use it. This won't work of course, as business, personal beliefs, economics, and social concerns are the main driving factors in the electronic world. not some lame researcher in a cube telling everyone in his livejournal that they should think about everything in a different way

    1. Re:Social Engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Leftists like to sit around in cubicles and think about how other people should think:-)

    2. Re:Social Engineering by October_30th · · Score: 2, Funny

      In contrast, the rightwingers like to go out and make people think their way.

      --
      The owls are not what they seem
    3. Re:Social Engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      ...whereas rightists like to break people's doors down and tell them what to think.

    4. Re:Social Engineering by chanceH · · Score: 1

      Acutally I think the net is convincing many people that the left right classification system is a false dichotomy.

      Its now control vs freedom, but both sides are still confused about who is on their side.

      E.g. 'black shirt'-anti-globalization anarchists and net-libertarian anarchists haven't figured out how to join up yet too well. And Pat Robertson and NOW really have to hold their nose when they join up to try to deny people their porn.

  13. Surely this kind of study is redundant? by ites · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Surely the impact of the Net is totally obvious.
    The Net lowers the cost of communication.
    This lets people create much larger and more efficient network.
    Activities that depend on such networks (research, digital theft, collaborative research, free software development, certain kinds of commerce) have and will continue to boom.
    Activities that depend on the high cost of communications (old media, encyclopedia salesmen, and other information cartels) have and will continue to decline.
    This seems to be stating the obvious... what else will a study turn up? That we are evolving resistance to RSI?

    --
    Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
    1. Re:Surely this kind of study is redundant? by DarienJax · · Score: 1

      What other effects can the Net have, you ask? What about the social effects on people? How they make friends, what activities they spend time doing? Are people really communicating more with people all around the world, or are they just using it as a way to replace phone calls to family? Are kids becoming too wrapped up in IRC and on-line games without going outside to play?

      How about effects on democracy? Does it promote smaller political groups, or just reinforce the main political parties?

      What kind of impact does the Internet have on third world countries, who are often jumping directly to computers and the Internet without much TV or phone (I've heard in areas of Africa they never got around to installing land phone-lines, but now cell phones are easy, and so they're becoming more used)?

      These aren't the obvious effects they're studying; these are the side effects -- the things the original creators of the Net almost surely did not think of. There many issues related to the Internet beyond just straight-forward fast communications.

      -Darien Jax

    2. Re:Surely this kind of study is redundant? by ites · · Score: 2

      All your questions are answered by the effect of the Net on communications.
      Look: human society is built on communications.
      Communication defines what we are, what we can do.
      People hunger for ways to communicate, and the Net gives them this.
      Of course, no-one knows what the actual effects will be on our societies.
      So maybe a study would be interesting to some extent.
      But it's not hard to make good and accurate predictions...
      Just look at current barriers to communication. Then imagine them gone!
      Reach anyone you want, anytime you want, for almost no cost, anywhere in the world. This is where we are heading.

      --
      Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
    3. Re:Surely this kind of study is redundant? by allism · · Score: 1

      Friends? Activities? COMMUNICATION??? Surely you jest...

    4. Re:Surely this kind of study is redundant? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is hideously reductionist. The effects of even tiny modifications to a society can lead to massive consequential changes; disciplines like Sociology and Anthropology seek to unwind the complex webs of social and cultural orders. The internet is one of the more massive of the upheavals in society that modern technology has brought about, and it makes sense to study it's effects.

  14. Me and the Net by X!0mbarg · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, I got so see more Pr0n than I ever imagined. Saw stuff that made me want to wash my eyes with liquid drano. Downloaded a Lot of useless crap. Became addicted to Online Comics. Made a handful of new friends. Got myself an e-mail account through a friend in Oslo. Learned that there are a Lot of ways to cheat...

    Search engines are my friends!

    So much data. So little HD space...

  15. I think the idea is... by netphilter · · Score: 1

    that more people have a voice. The Internet has given the "common man" direct access to politicians and information about political topics. If citizens are more informed and can take a greater role in political decisions, there are likely to be less instances of protests and riots. It will improve the political debate by giving citizens a more "civilized" method of accessing politicians. Not that it will necessarily eliminate the days of the protest and riot, but it should help to make more informed and connected citizens.

    --
    "Herbivores eat well cause their food never, ever runs."
    1. Re:I think the idea is... by OrangeSpyderMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Internet has given the "common man" direct access to politicians and information about political topics.

      Pardon? Direct access? You mean being able to send an email to your local MP/governor/député? People have always been able to do this with snail mail. By "information about political topics" i guess you mean the stuff that newspapers and TV news have been reporting for years. Direct access to information is hearing it from the horses mouth, not reading it on Yahoo news.

      I regret to say that the common man has no more direct access than, say, 20 years ago, especially the common man that doesn't have internet. All that has happened is the "lazy man" has found a way to send his opinions and read other people's without getting out of his house. I don't necessarily think of this as a good thing since the opinions of a great deal of people that cannot be pestered to go to the trouble of expressing them outside of their own homes are often, sadly, not worth listening to.

      The change in political activism will, I think, be felt essentially by the broadening of the divide between people who read about things on the web and mouth off on Slashdot and those who, because they can't (no internet) or won't (having real beliefs) do this, get out and try and change things.

      --
      Try NetBSD... safe,straightforward,useful.
  16. Cliff Stoll had some comments on this... by CoolVibe · · Score: 3, Informative
    ...regarding the effects of the internet on social life and people.

    Check out the realvideo (yeah sorry) technetcast presentation here . It's refreshing, to the point and funny. And oh so typically Cliff Stoll-ian. :)

    1. Re:Cliff Stoll had some comments on this... by hey! · · Score: 2

      Cliff's a wise man.

      He also has the mannerisms of a hyperactive squirrel.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re:Cliff Stoll had some comments on this... by CoolVibe · · Score: 2
      He also has the mannerisms of a hyperactive squirrel.

      a hyperactive squirrel on the virge on overdosing on caffeine you mean. But yes, Cliff is wise. He's also handy. Check out his Klein bottles

  17. Far from showing any concrete value by Delrin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sure, there's this organization that is DEDICATED to studying The Net and the "profound" social changes it has engendered.. right, so where's the ground breaking results? The article is highly speculative, and contains little of value, I think someone just got caught by the catchy title without any core value..

    My 2gilders

    d

    1. Re:Far from showing any concrete value by Hittite+Creosote · · Score: 1
      right, so where's the ground breaking results

      Shock horror! An Institute holding it's LAUNCH CONFERENCE hasn't produced any results you've heard of yet...

      I mean, give them a break, they haven't finished taking the plastic wrapping off their office chairs and you're demanding results already!

    2. Re:Far from showing any concrete value by Delrin · · Score: 1

      Hehe, well you might be right, but maybe they should have held back with the article raising lots of questions, and not feeding us with any answers.

  18. Am I the only one... by Green+Light · · Score: 2, Funny

    Am I the only one that first read this as "What the dot-Net is doing to you"?

    --
    "Send an Instant Karma to me" - Yes
    1. Re:Am I the only one... by Delrin · · Score: 1

      hehe, I have to admit that I was a victim of that freudian slip as well. :)

  19. Eli Noam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But he warned against simply accepting that the net was a force for good all by itself and needed no guidance by policy makers to shape its effects.

    This is why I hate these social-engineering dweebs. It can never be enough that something is just there and people use it. They think that the common man is too stupid to "understand the ramifications" and that there has to be broad and sweeping "policies" on what to think of it and how to use it.

    I'll blame it on leftists, you can blame it on whoever.

    1. Re:Eli Noam by Shuh · · Score: 1

      "no guidance by policy makers"

      i.e. -- we need to pay politicians and bureaucrats to tell us what to do in cyberspace... the one place where the 1st Amendment should reign supreme...

  20. click on slashdot story Jan 1, 2003 ... by peter303 · · Score: 2

    Loaded on user's computer Dec 31, 2003. (You'd think a site devoted to computing would have halfway decent servers.)

  21. Yeah, right! by Mac+Degger · · Score: 2, Funny

    Who else thinks these guys just want to view pr0n, visit chatrooms and play games all day?

    Sounds like a research grant I would think up :)

    --
    -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  22. What the Net Did To Me by Skirwan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Mostly The Net just bored me. Sandra Bullock did the best she could with the script, but the entire thing was exactly the sort of paranoid FUD that makes people think they can get sick by using a computer with a virus.

    Now, The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes? Classic!

    --
    Damn the Emperor!

  23. think of the children by larry+bagina · · Score: 2

    I'd rather not think of Cowboy Neal making children...

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  24. Why the Brits didnt invent the net by peter303 · · Score: 2

    (Even though a Brit invented it.)
    Too much academic naval watching. This stuff already happened five human years ago, or 35 "Internet years" ago. Excerpt from article:

    "But academics are starting to find out how important an agent of social change the internet is, the opportunities it presents for researchers and how to frame policy and practice to cope with its associated changes."

    Any 15 year old kid could could have told this five years ago. Adults, especially academics, are clueless.

    1. Re:Why the Brits didnt invent the net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Even though a Brit invented it.)

      bzzt. wrong. play again. The web is not the net.

    2. Re:Why the Brits didnt invent the net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      > Any 15 year old kid could could have told this
      > five years ago.

      15 year old kids will tell you lots of things. The trick is simply this - knowing what nugget of truth lies in the 10,000 other completely irrelevant things they'll tell you about fashion trends and who's going to be with whom like for-ever. :)

      > Adults, especially academics, are clueless.

      As one of my former teachers would say: "Hey you! Quick! Move out, get a job, and raise a family while you still know everything!"

    3. Re:Why the Brits didnt invent the net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But remember, the Brits had a great navy so I guess that accounts for the naval watching.

    4. Re:Why the Brits didnt invent the net by Martin+S. · · Score: 2

      The web is not the net

      I think you'll find he means Donald Davies, the inventor of the packet switched Network, and not Tim Berners-Lee, the inventor of the Web.

    5. Re:Why the Brits didnt invent the net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then he's still wrong.

  25. The Net by suman28 · · Score: 1

    Seeing that the Internet is a great place where people can do research and download p0rn and do many things unimaginable before the advent of it, (excluding SPAM) I can only see good things coming out of this study. For every new idea/technology, there are bound to be good and bad sides to it. -SK

  26. Does this statement make sense? by f00zbll · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "How do we learn fast enough so that we are learning faster than the world changes?" asked Mr Graham, "if we are not learning faster than the world changes then we cannot possibly control it."

    Does anyone else see a logical flaw in that argument? It's not like knowledge == control. If knowledge was measurable in quantity and quality, then the statement might make sense. But I've yet to see compelling proof that such measurement is practicle or desireable. Since when did we have control over technology? The statement in that context almost implies we have control over "it" and that some how we will loose "control over it."

    It seems like they still have a lot of work to do, like defining what "it" is and how to go about measuring "it". Otherwise, it will just be a truck load of political jargons.

    1. Re:Does this statement make sense? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The statement doesn't make sense, no.

      However, knowledge most certainly is control.

      Do we have control over technology? I can certainly control my VCR, and I have the ability to stop it from blinking 12:00 if I so choose. (I'm lazy, and rarely do.)

      Do we have control over nuclear energy? The average citizen doesn't (Thank goodness!), but I'd argue the fact that nuclear power plants and nuclear weapons, harnessing the power of the atom, demonstrate control.

      Who controls the net? Not politicians. Not corporations. Not yet. For the time being, end users still control the net. Why? Knowledge. Look at the RIAA's doomed campaign against file sharing. They can kill Napster, but can they kill Kazaa? If they kill that, can they kill IRC? FTP? HTTP? The cat of knowledge is out of the bag in terms of that battle, and the users have thus won, and are in control.

    2. Re:Re:Does this statement make sense? by f00zbll · · Score: 1
      As you just demonstrated, knowledge == control when it's well defined :)

      Do we have control over technology? I can certainly control my VCR, and I have the ability to stop it from blinking 12:00 if I so choose. (I'm lazy, and rarely do.) Do we have control over nuclear energy? The average citizen doesn't (Thank goodness!), but I'd argue the fact that nuclear power plants and nuclear weapons, harnessing the power of the atom, demonstrate control.

      But one could play devil's advocate and argue that all things considered, human's do not have control. Someone could play a trick on you and set your VCR to 12:00 when you're not looking. Control at best is temporary. The article also implies control is a state that is maintainable with sufficient knowledge, which it obviously isn't. But that's my opinion, which by no means is true.

    3. Re:Re:Does this statement make sense? by Saeger · · Score: 1
      Well, all things considered, humans as a whole do have control over tech. It's just that the average individual has to specialize his knowledge more and more, so he's a antlike cog in the sum of knowledge, and can't possibly be in tune with the big picture (as much as someone who's specialization *is* manipulating the bigpicture).

      (hmm... that didn't make much sense).

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    4. Re:Does this statement make sense? by vldmr_krn · · Score: 1

      "How do we learn fast enough so that we are learning faster than the world changes?" asked Mr Graham, "if we are not learning faster than the world changes then we cannot possibly control it."

      Does anyone else see a logical flaw in that argument?

      I don't know what you said, but there's an obvious flaw: the world changes because we change it, and our understanding its current state is a requisite for our changing its state. If we don't understand the world, the world stops changing until we understand it enough to change it again. It's not like there's some mystical change happening to the world which is disconnected from human action and which we have to strive to understand before our ignorance kills us.

  27. Gold Member by Tibe · · Score: 2, Funny

    Foxy Cleopatra: "So, what does this thing do?"
    Austin Powers: "Well it's called the internet, and it's completely revolutionized the way we live and access vital information. For example have a look at this...
    monkey.mpg
    Foxy: "Wow... now that's vital information."
    Austin: "I know, it's amazing!"

    mole.sig

  28. The Net by suman28 · · Score: 1

    The internet has helped me in soooo many ways, I can't thank it enough. Before the internet, I didn't know much about p0rn. Now there is so much more to see, so much to play with.... Thank GOD for the intenet.

  29. Thanks, Eli by sam_handelman · · Score: 5, Informative

    "We must save the internet from its founding myth that it is good for democracy and is open and cannot be regulated."

    Oh, is *that* why we need to be told what to do? For DEMOCRACY?

    Eli Noam is an academic who moonlights as a beurecrat. Based on his webpage, he doesn't seem to advocate censorship exactly - he wants to somehow use regulation to encourage people to talk one another when they have diverse social backgrounds. This is a laudable goal, and I'm certainly no anti-government nut - but this is a stupid target for regulation. Like regulation to make people be nice.

    He complains about centralization of information. This has NOT been my experience with the web - EXCEPT for academic journals. If he wants regulation to require peer-reviewed academic journals to make their content available for free online; well, that would be great. I'd support that 100%. A journal that wants money shouldn't publish publically funded research.

    The fact is - the protocols (TCP/IP, http/html) fascilitate free, open and DIVERSE exchanges of communication. I can't think of any changes I'd make that would encourage people to interact with people of diverse experience. If there were improvements to these fundamental protocols, there would some justification in legislating them (you'd get them no other way), but I don't think his goals are well enough defined, or the effects well enough understood, to even talk about this as an option at this juncture.

    His op-ed pieces are particularly enlightening if you really care what he thinks.

    --
    The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
    1. Re:Thanks, Eli by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Depends on how you define Democracy. And you don't need direct government intervention to censor the web, people can do it themselves, usually wihtout realising it. Read Noam Chomsky's Necessary Illusions and Manufacturing Consent.

  30. CowboyNeal as a research subject? by just+some+computer+j · · Score: 1

    Hmm, A case a beer huh? Might want to ask for two cases of beer.

    --
    eh, this sucks, I am going back to bed....
    1. Re:CowboyNeal as a research subject? by surfimp · · Score: 1

      Hmm, A case a beer huh? Might want to ask for two cases of beer.

      I think they better just hope for a six-pack. This *is* CowboyNeal we're talking about, remember?

  31. Only Research Center?? by redragon · · Score: 3, Informative

    They must be on crack. There are many different places looking at these sorts of things:

    http://dir.yahoo.com/Social_Science/Science__Tec hn ology__and_Society_Studies/

    Seriously...most places that do cultural analysis of science are also looking at the effects of the internet.

    --
    - Sighuh?
    1. Re:Only Research Center?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to bad they exist solely of pompous bitches who can't tell IRC from VI.

    2. Re:Only Research Center?? by McLuhanesque · · Score: 2, Informative

      They must be on crack. There are many different places looking at these sorts of things. Seriously...most places that do cultural analysis of science are also looking at the effects of the internet

      Indeed! At the McLuhan Program in Culture and Technology at the University of Toronto, this sort of examination is "standard fare" in our graduate courses, and for our post-grad fellows. In fact, Marshall McLuhan was doing this sort of investigation nearly 40 years ago, in looking at the cultural and societal effects of instantaneous, multi-way communications around the world.

      In 1969, for example, executives at IBM thought he was crazy when he explained how there would be networked computers in every home, and how we would be able to buy groceries and other household items online!

  32. Disabled by tsa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For disabled people that don't leave the house often it's even more of a godsent than for 'normal' people. Finally they have a cheap and vast and versatile tool for getting and sending information!

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Disabled by stephenbooth · · Score: 2

      True

      Actually that reminded me of something I read a while back, might have been an "I, Cringely". Basically there was a guy who due to some physical disability would not be able to hold down a regular job and so would probably be a financial burden on his family and society. Instead he got onto Ebay and is now the primary earner of the family, trading catering equipment on Ebay. Something like that anyhow.

      Personally, the biggest advantage the net has for me is that I'm able to argue with people much farther afield than I would have been previously so have much more interesting arguements. It also gives me free and easy access to Buffy fanfic, especially femslash.

      Stephen

      --
      "Don't write down to your readers, the only people less intelligent than you can't read" - Sign on Newspaper Office Wall
  33. ObQuestion by extra88 · · Score: 3, Funny

    What kind of beer?

  34. Normalization of Sexual 'Deviancy' by Bonker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It broadens the mind by introducing you to subgenres of pr0n that you never knew existed.

    While the above post was joking, the idea is true. The internet has done more to make sexuality and sexual practices that were 'deviant' before the mid 1990's into more normal every day things.

    In some respects this is very good. People who were otherwise unable to express themselves now have an outlet. People can find partners and build relationships that they would never have had a chance to in the past.

    In some respects this is very bad. People who are truly sick-- those who sexually molest children to get their jollies-- are lulled into a sense of normalcy by the apparent 'commonness' of their illness.

    --
    The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
    1. Re:Normalization of Sexual 'Deviancy' by PygmyTrojan · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ahhh yes, thanks internet, for letting me now that it's okay to take a crap in my girlfriend's mouth.

      --

      Trying is the first step towards failure.

    2. Re:Normalization of Sexual 'Deviancy' by ronaldcromwell · · Score: 1

      Is it just me, or have others cut way down on reading since they got on the internet? Grandted, I'm sure I read more sitting at the computer, but it's all crap. (X10 Ads shouldn't count as 'reading'); In relation to the Normalization of Sexual Deviancy, I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of sex offenders don't visit 'deviant' pornographic websites on a daily basis. I think that the bulk of it is probably 31337 kids, spamming goatse links in their counterstrike matches. The real perverts masturbate in their own feces, they don't have time for computers.

    3. Re:Normalization of Sexual 'Deviancy' by Saeger · · Score: 1
      Is it just me, or have others cut way down on reading since they got on the internet?

      You just have to drag yourself away from your 'puter once in a while. I look forward to getting out of my somewhat comfortable computer chair, and onto my very comfortable sofa to read a deadtree book.

      Granted, I seem to be buying anthologies more often these days (currently reading the Verner Vinge collection). It's a sign of the (accelerating) times that people only have patience for compressed info with so much out there.

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    4. Re:Normalization of Sexual 'Deviancy' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember the first time I saw amputee porn...

    5. Re:Normalization of Sexual 'Deviancy' by neafevoc · · Score: 1

      Well, if it's on the Internet... it must be true!

    6. Re:Normalization of Sexual 'Deviancy' by Alsee · · Score: 2

      Ahhh yes, thanks internet, for letting me now that it's okay to take a crap in my girlfriend's mouth.

      And don't forget, it's also okay for her to take a crap in your mouth too!

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    7. Re:Normalization of Sexual 'Deviancy' by sacrilicious · · Score: 2
      Ahhh yes, thanks internet, for letting me now that it's okay to take a crap in my girlfriend's mouth.

      You might want to warn her the first time you do it though...

      --
      - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
  35. The net. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    The net taught me enough shocking things about rocking the casbah, that there would be small challenge in making a sailor blush.

    It taught me that humanity itself is plagued with idiots; not just the populace of the United States.

    On the plus side, because of the net, I learned what real music sounds like. On the down side, the RIAA is now more determined than ever before to shove crap into my ears, all because of the net.

    I think, however, that the most important thing that has happened to me because of the net is this: Because of the internet, I've been able to 'own' camping bitches all the way over in France.

    Cheese eating quad-camping surrender monkeys.

  36. It's the economy, stupid by RealBeanDip · · Score: 3, Funny

    The 'net has allowed us to capatilize on our synergy while moving to a B2B model and later B2C. During this time we leveraged our user community and capatilized through eCommerce.

    Then we ran out of funding and went broke. But it was a fun couple-a-few years.

    --

    You know you're a geek if you've ever replied to a tagline.

    1. Re:It's the economy, stupid by ianscot · · Score: 3, Funny
      If only, if only we could have thought outside the box in order to leverage our core competencies... Moving forward, we'll just have to grow something-or-other.

      (I cashed out my synergy when the market on that was high.)

      --
      "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
    2. Re:It's the economy, stupid by nytes · · Score: 1
      Then we ran out of funding and went broke. But it was a fun couple-a-few years.

      This is known as the B2T (business to toilet) model.

      We didn't fail, we just changed business models.

      --
      -- I have monkeys in my pants.
  37. AHH! The wise and powerful net!!!! by schowley · · Score: 1

    To quote the Great and Wonderful OZ.

    "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

    One man's info babble becomes another man's reality?

    Just think of what H.G. Wells could have done with the Net!

    --
    The sum of our knowledge today becomes the reference point of our ignorance tomorrow.
  38. They got paid for this??? by mustangdavis · · Score: 1
    dedicated to studying the social, political and economic effects of the net


    Here are the results:

    Social effects: Porn distributions reach an all time high. Minors are exposed to porn as soon as they learn how to type "http://". Divorse is at an all time high because a woman from Ohio can chat with a "rich guy" from Texas while her "hard" working hubby is at work all day (masturbating to the new porn sites he found on his son's computer last night).

    Political: People finally realized how much fun the President really gets to have in the oval office - we impeached him (jellousy!!)! People also excahnged a record number of politcal cartoons via email - Al Gore looses election!

    Economic: The Internet brought the world economy out of the early 90's depression, created stocks with price earnings ratios of 50x and up, people could trade stocks online - which further drove up the over inflated stocks. Poor people became millionaires overnight - and are now poor again because they spent all their money on a super bowl commercial. Now the economy has collapsed around itself and unemployment is at an all time high (except for the people that are doing this study ... atleast someone is getting paid!)

    And who said you need a PhD to document the effects of the net?
    1. Re:They got paid for this??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keeerist! What are you, a hardline Democrat, or some other ideological dweeb? Your perceived cause-effect linkages are about as valid as those of any political lackwit.

      [1] The divorce rate has nothing to do with Internet chat.

      [2] Trust me... even geeks are not jealous of sex with Monica Lewinsky.

      [3] Unemployment at al *all* *time* *high*? Well, I'm guessing you are about 11 years old, so maybe that';s true in the sapn of your tiny life. ;-)

    2. Re:They got paid for this??? by mustangdavis · · Score: 1

      Some people just can't take a joke ....

      It's called sarcasim and exageration my friend ...

      BTW: I'm still laughing at this (so called) study!!!! It is still the best joke in this thread!

  39. Better than our US "studies" by ianscot · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The story was in the BBC and the Research center's in Oxford, so I guess it shouldn't surprise me that they actually seem to be studying the 'net -- rather than, say, advocating a reactionary response to it.

    Our U.S. equivalent, of course, might be Carnegie Mellon University -- from which we got all sorts of The Internet is Soooooo Scary "studies" for a while. (Remember the Time Magazine article back in 1994 or so that claimed 75% of all Web traffic was pRon? That was based on a C-M U paper. The more recent "study" that said people who browsed a lot tended to be depressed and socially isolated? Guess what University published it. Somebody at Carnegie Mellon has a hateful thing going on, seems like.)

    It's advocacy over actual information, as far as U.S. pop media's appetite for "studies" goes.

    --
    "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
    1. Re:Better than our US "studies" by Tim+Fraser · · Score: 2
      Ah, the infamous CMU Rimm Internet Porn study...

      For those of us who were lucky enough to miss this experience back in 1995, you may find this link to be educational, and this link to be amusing.

      - Tim

    2. Re:Better than our US "studies" by Cervantes · · Score: 1
      It's worse than that. It's the move to capitalism of "studies", and it's been going on for a while.

      Consider:

      Study "A" states that the Capital_I_Internet is a nice, cozy place with lots of interesting things, and this is a "Good Thing" (tm). They suggest that a lack of regulation is also a Good Thing.

      Study "B" says the Internet is an evil place, where 3/4 of the traffic is pr0n, and 1/2 the users are child molesters lurking in the shadows for Your Children! Dear Lord, Someone Please Save The Children!

      Study A will perhaps get you a few more hits from the ACLU domain, and if you're really lucky, your dean may get invited to a conference in Buttf*ck, Nebraska to discuss how the Internet can improve bovine fertility.

      Study B ensures that you get massive media coverage, your own segment on CNN, at least 1/2 page articles in every major newspaper, and every moral and religious group that hears about this study donating money based on the headline. Your dean gets invited to a half dozen major conferences and meetings, all expenses paid, and you get to appear on "Larry King Live" or some such thing. Your face, your university, and everything possibly associated with this study ensures not just your 15 minutes of fame, but that when the devoutly religious VP of BigCorp sees your smiling face on CNN denouncing the evils of the net, that you get a nice, cushy position producing BigCorp-brand studies to say the same thing.

      So, which one would you do? Or better yet, which one would you be allowed to publish? Controversy breeds cash, ladies and gentlemen, and places that are barely breaking even like universities need every bit they can get.

      (Of course, there is always the ubiquitous option "C", wherein you publish a study suggesting that pr0n isn't a bad thing, and that perhaps it serves as a release for potential peds and other assorted unmentionables. When going with this option, the normal result is flaming bottles being thrown at your house, followed by regular mob-crowd beatings, loosing your job and every bit of captial you have, getting arrested for coughing in the general direction of Washington [Germ Warfare!], and being thrown in a 6x8 cell with "Ted", who will happily help you gather mounds of empirical evidence on whether lube is *really* neccessary.

      Not that that ever happens, of course, right?)

      /ramble

      --
      If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
    3. Re:Better than our US "studies" by vegetablespork · · Score: 1

      Does this mean there'd been a "Rimm" job done on Usenet porn at CMU? (BTW, the CMU link is dead.)

      --

      Call (206) 338-5780 COLLECT for information about a genuine BA, BS, MA, MS, MBA, or Ph.D.

  40. Wha?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article: "We no longer need to capitalise the internet like we do God or Truth," he said.

    You MORON! We capitalize Internet not because it's some sort of abstract concept, but because it's a proper noun. Many companies have their own internet(work). There is only one Internet (WWW). Schmuck.

    You may now commence calling me anal.

    A.C.

  41. English debate by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 2

    Seems like they mixed up their images, that was actually from the Manchester United finals.

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  42. A conspiracy of perverts committing perversions by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 2

    I'm sorry but I never want people who dress up in fur suits to have sex to become accepted by society. After all, part of their fun is to be outsiders and I don't need to see a guy dressed as Barney with an erection sticking out.

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  43. Got a mirror? by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 2

    "All that has happened is the "lazy man" has found a way to send his opinions and read other people's without getting out of his house."

    Sort of like posting to Slashdot?

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
    1. Re:Got a mirror? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you read the rest of his post or just stop once you thought of something to say?

  44. Communistic Censorship by Petrus · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    There is no surprise that one sees one of the most violent "revolutions", quotes from a communitst and censorsip ideas like those implementet in the mentioned communistic country all grouped together.

    I have long observed people with communist thoughts (so called commnists) having taken over the BBC. You can tell by statement like these and by nearly fanatic hatered of christian religion.
    (For instance, saying "A.D." in a date is against BBC guidelines and is censored out :-)))

    Watch guys! Your Big Friends are out to get you.
    Censorship is not coming. It is already here on the BBC!

    1. Re:Communistic Censorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OH! I forgot if you didn't like christianity you were a communist! You're a moron. Have a nice day. :)

  45. Re:American Beer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    you know why they serve American Beer cold? So that it is easier to differentiate with piss.

    I find it sad that so many things labled as "American" are such crap. American cheese... how can they call it cheese when it is only grease, salt, artificial flavors and maybe some enzymes? And when asked what "American Food" is, many people will begin the list with 'Ballpark Nachos' (see reference of grease called cheese), hotdogs (a bastardized and overprocessed form of an already processed form of entrails and remains from various other countries), bologna (same as hotdogs), white bread (yah, throw some more bleach in my samich please), and PB&J (now THERE is something to be proud of dammit, in fact I think I will go make myself one now).

    On the other hand, I have tried some very good beer made in America, but since the term "American Beer" really refers to the that over watered down, corn sugar (and other cost cutting crap) subsitute piss that only vaguely resembles a Pilsner, then it is hard to refer to it as such.

    I shiver just thinking about drinking that swill. Budweiser, king of beers for the fat, no life, football fanatic loser who's lack of real life accomplishments or substance is only glossed over by his dependence on others accomplishments and weak attempt to make himself look NOT like a fat lazy pathetic slob.

  46. Direct access by superflippy · · Score: 1

    Actually, the internet has given politicians the ability to communicate directly with the world, not just their constituents, via their web sites and email. Not that they couldn't send out newsletters before, but email newsletters are more cost-effective.

    Case in point: Back when I lived in NC, I signed up to be on my Senator's email mailing list. Even though I've moved to another state, I still get the messages, which include info like when he'll be appearing on various news shows and what cities in NC he'll be visiting that week.

    I think it's the ability to get out timely information like that where the internet beats out traditional media. Newspapers and snail mail are more expensive and slower, TV and radio are here-and-gone so if you didn't write that information down, too bad. The internet is uniquely fast and long-lasting.

    --
    Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
  47. Biblical Analogy... by Shuh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Eve ate apple from the Tree of Knowledge and thus gained god-like insight into the human plight. Or at least, that's the metaphor.

    But these bums who obsess on controlling the internet and all knowlege would be like a Bureaucrat, a Politician, and an Entrepreneur who entered the Garden, kicked G-d out and set up Garden of Eden Apples Lmt. They would then eat apple-sauce, apple cider, and apple apples.

    Meanwhile GOAL would contract out to the timber industry for sawdust and the slop industry for protein, and use a Red #5 and a factory to produce Consumer Renewable Apple Protien-Supplement for consumption by the general populace.

    Ohhh, and somewhere along the way, they would also convince everyone that due to G-d's absence, they in fact were G-d.

  48. It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by jensend · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I firmly believe that promiscuity and homosexuality both constitute being 'truly sick'. You can talk all you want about how urges were 'repressed' and people need to 'express themselves,' but (contrary to popular opinion) psychology does NOT vindicate things like this in the least, and it is NOT psychologically healthy to do so. Pornography, promiscuity, and homosexuality really are like illegal drugs- you tamper with the way your body is ordered in an attempt to produce more pleasure and get all sorts of negative effects. If the Net is providing an 'outlet' for this kind of thing, that would be one of its worst effects, not one of its positive ones.

    Modern society is learning the hard way that you can't encourage perversion and expect people to act morally. When we all grasp this basic truth, the world will be a lot better off.

    I'm bound to be flamed to death for this. Sometimes the truth is difficult, unpopular, and publicly termed 'intolerant.' It needs to be told nonetheless.

    1. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by LtOcelot · · Score: 1

      Sometimes the truth is difficult, unpopular, and publicly termed 'intolerant.' It needs to be told nonetheless.

      Very insightful. Please start whenever you're ready.

    2. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Studies have shown that bisexuality and homosexuality is common among nearly all forms of mammal life, of which we are part. If that doesn't help prove that it's normal and natural, I don't know what does. And don't start with that "we're different/better" than animals bullshit, either. We're still animals.

    3. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by jensend · · Score: 2

      I haven't heard of any such studies, and studies like that tend to get published and get attention only when they have results that the researcher and the media think are really interesting- studies showing the opposite would end up in file drawers with a lot of dust on them. Still, if studies show that lab rats tend to ingest cocaine if it is in their immediate environment, does that show that ingesting cocaine is healthy and natural?

      Let's face it, sexual tendencies and related feelings in humans aren't there because it is evolutionarily useful to look at pr0n or have homosexual relations, just as the receptor sites in neurons aren't shaped the way they are in order to bind to LSD.

    4. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Saeger · · Score: 1
      Kinky sex isn't uncivilized or immoral you damn religous prude.

      Do you only fuck your wife missionary style? ... and then pray to god for forgiveness after?

      Just because sex embarrasses the oldfarts that write religious books doesn't make it evil.

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    5. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by jensend · · Score: 0, Troll

      Did I say anything about religion or religious books? Did I even say that these things are immoral? No. I said that they are unnatural, unhealthy, and encourage immoral behavior.

      I know I really shouldn't be feeding the trolls, but what the heck.

    6. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      News media is biased. Those reports don't sit on shelves they just go to christian media sources.

      You can find a study to point out the good merits of just about anything.

      None of this silly crap really matters though.

      Homos arn't nearly as much a threat as all the "good christian people" driving around in their SUVs, breeding like rabbits (condoms are the devil too ya know!), wasting resources, and then voting for their government to blast 2nd and 3rd world countries off the map to sustain their way of life.

      Atleast pr0n freaks are only hurting themselves.

    7. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by MichaelPenne · · Score: 1

      > Pornography, promiscuity, and homosexuality really are like illegal drugs- you tamper with the way your body is ordered in an attempt to produce more pleasure and get all sorts of negative effects.

      Uhh, your personal morals aside, I don't think that the "we shouldn't do it because it's dangerous" argument is a very good one to use.

      There are plenty of different things that people do that are dangerous to themselves and others, generally we allow and even accept such 'pursuits of happiness' when they are pursued as safely as possible. Why single out the sexual adventurors for persecution?

      PS, how is tampering with your body with "illegal" drugs biochemically different from tampering with your body with legal drugs?

    8. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Saeger · · Score: 1
      By claiming that sexual deviancy, er, perversion, is "unnatural" and "encourages immoral behavior", you show your true religious colors; you don't have state it explicitly.

      Humans (and technology) are PART of nature. Anything we do -- including ass-fucking, polluting the environment, or nuking ourselves - *IS* natural IMO.

      As for "encouraging immorality", well, that didn't seem to stop you xians from your crusades. Maybe they were doing it doggystyle? Or cowgirl style even? Or maybe one doesn't have much to do with the other?!

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    9. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by jensend · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Well, for one, the observed tendency is for many (though definitely not all) negative effects of promiscuity, pornography, and homosexuality to be social negative effects. If the harmful effects of these were relatively isolated to the people who involved themselves in them, I would feel sorry that people choose to mess their own lives up but not be concerned in some of the ways I am. (It's the same way with a lot of mind-altering substances- they help produce unstable personalities who are dangerous to others.) Remember, nobody lives in a vacuum/no man is an island; what you do affects other people profoundly.

      A few months ago, some pervert broke into a private home 50 miles north of mine in the middle of the night and kidnapped a preteen girl. What scant evidence there is suggests that he did this to sexually abuse her body (which has not yet been found). It is extremely likely that this person had been feeding a psychological abnormality with pornography until this mental disease had taken over. This is a good example of one (somewhat rare) type of effect of 'expressing yourself' and 'freeing your repressed urges' by turning to pornography.

      As to the distinction between legal and illegal drugs, I don't mean to put everything legal on one side of the line and everything illegal on the other. The line I meant to draw is between taking drugs (such as prescription drugs when you have an illness) to correct for a real problem in the operation of your body to attempt to restore it to normal operation and drugs (ofttimes but not always illegal) which are taken to mess with the biological system in all sorts of ways without regard for the healthy and normal operation of the body.

    10. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And society is merely a social construct. A purely 'unnatural thing'. Please think before opening your mouth.

    11. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You conveniently left out ``unhealthy''. Fact is that subversive sex is not very healthy, and thus it is in societies best interest to curb such activity for the good of everyone. Drugs destroy families and productivity just like unhealthy sex does. We dont enjoy suffering because of your mistakes, so we extend a loving hand.

    12. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Dirtside · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I firmly believe that promiscuity and homosexuality both constitute being 'truly sick'.
      I would be astonished to discover that you believe this for any reason other than that you are scared of sex and sexuality, or have perhaps been fed these beliefs without analyzing them critically or empirically.
      Modern society is learning the hard way that you can't encourage perversion and expect people to act morally. When we all grasp this basic truth, the world will be a lot better off.
      This is thankfully a meaningless bit of bluster backed up by nothing. My wife and I live in West Hollywood, the gayest place in Southern California, and almost without exception, every gay person I've met has been friendly, outgoing, and, contrary to your unhelpful generalization, quite moral.

      Homosexuals don't get to choose who they're attracted to any more than heterosexuals do. My advice to you is to go find a gay or lesbian group, get to know some of its members, and hopefully you'll learn that they are, in most ways, the same as rest of us.

      But then, that idea probably scares you, doesn't it?

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    13. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by jensend · · Score: 1

      What is your explanation of social aggregation in nature? Herds, packs, etc? Such societies often have complex rules. Check out studies done on meerkats or gorillas, for example.

      Furthermore, the appelation of 'social' was not meant to restrict the range of these ill effects to complex, large scale human societies. One could even say that any time two or more organisms interact there is a society.

    14. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Atleast pr0n freaks are only hurting themselves.

      Becuse they don't stick their nose where it doesn't belong. Well, aslong as it's not their partner's asshole...

    15. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 1

      like illegal drugs- you tamper with the way your body is ordered in an attempt to produce more pleasure and get all sorts of negative effects.

      Unlike legal drugs such as alcohol, soda and cigarettes, which have a generally positive effect on the body?

      --
      Everything will be taken away from you.
    16. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by jensend · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I am aware that there is some degree of non-chosen same-sex attraction, but common sense tells us that this is unnatural, since the biological mechanisms behind sexual attraction are there for the purpose of encouraging reproduction. (There are, of course, other reasons, such as statistical studies of factors of mental health, for classifying same-sex attraction as unhealthy.) I'm not saying that people who feel some same-sex attraction are evil, I'm saying that they are ill. However, those who pride themselves on disease instead of attempting to free themselves of it are fairly obviously unstable in some way.

      I do not deny that there may be a fair number of people who are openly homosexual but otherwise largely moral. The fact that plenty of people in mental hospitals across the world are nonviolent doesn't mean it's time to give each of them a machete and release them; the same principle applies to the class of mentally ill under discussion.

    17. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by jensend · · Score: 1

      As I said in another comment:
      As to the distinction between legal and illegal drugs, I don't mean to put everything legal on one side of the line and everything illegal on the other. The line I meant to draw is between taking drugs (such as prescription drugs when you have an illness) to correct for a real problem in the operation of your body to attempt to restore it to normal operation and drugs (ofttimes but not always illegal) which are taken to mess with the biological system in all sorts of ways without regard for the healthy and normal operation of the body.

    18. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh dear--and THIS post isn't a troll?

      the previous post was a statement of personal belief; the second is a troll. why do i expect more though from the self-proclaimed "intellectual elite".

      to the topic in the thread--what amazes me more is that the guy says something is "truly sick", and obviously picks something that "the majority" can agree with. if most other "deviant" behaviours are okay then why not some artificial barrier of age?

      that's stupid logic. face it--porn is perverted.

    19. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You call pollution and nuclear bombs natural??? what are you smoking? There is nothing natural about what the more greedy people among us are doing to mother Earth.

      Balance is natural. Disrupting that balance is unnatural.

    20. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bearing in mind that religion is itself an example of a mass neurosis, why should anyone believe what you have to say on the mentally ill?

    21. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Dirtside · · Score: 5, Insightful
      but common sense tells us that this is unnatural
      Actually, no, it's usually the Christian Bible that tells us this is unnatural, or other such works of man. There are animals in nature that engage in homosexual play, mostly chimps and other apes who are closely related to us (which is probably not a coincidence). An organism that does not reproduce because it is homosexual is unlikely to propagate its genes, but this does not automatically translate to "morally wrong," as your usage of terms like "unnatural" connotes. Sentient, able-minded humans who are homosexual have every right to live their lives as they see fit. Only if you believe that every human has a moral imperative to reproduce as much as possible, can a homosexual be logically considered "ill."
      However, those who pride themselves on disease instead of attempting to free themselves of it are fairly obviously unstable in some way.
      You have yet to establish that homosexuals are suffering from anything that can reasonably be called "disease." Your definition of disease, from the beginning of the paragraph, appears to be, "Anything which hinders an organism's reproduction," but you have not specified why this is a good definition. Dictionary.com's entry for "disease" does not mention reproductive fitness.
      I do not deny that there may be a fair number of people who are openly homosexual but otherwise largely moral.
      You did deny this, or at the very least imply it strongly, when you said:
      Modern society is learning the hard way that you can't encourage perversion and expect people to act morally.
      While this doesn't explicitly say that perversion = immorality, the obvious consequent is that people who are perverted will be immoral.
      The fact that plenty of people in mental hospitals across the world are nonviolent doesn't mean it's time to give each of them a machete and release them; the same principle applies to the class of mentally ill under discussion.
      No, it does not. The nonviolent mentally ill you reference (presumably people who cannot cope on their own in society) are distinctly different from homosexuals, who can (and do) cope on their own, and are for the most part indistinguishable from heterosexuals. I could as easily label as "mentally ill" those who claim the existence of a benevolent (but undetectable) superbeing who divinely intervenes with human affairs, leaving no concrete evidence of his passing. There is no reason that consenting adults should not be allowed to do as they will, so long as their actions do not harm a nonconsenting other.
      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    22. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Analysis+Paralysis · · Score: 1
      ...It is extremely likely that this person had been feeding a psychological abnormality with pornography until this mental disease had taken over.


      It is also extremely likely that this person had drank milk in their youth - will you now advocate banning cows? Seriously - if you wish to draw a valid conclusion about an activity/substance you have to look at groups of people (not individuals) to reduce/average out other influences, and compare users with non-users. Picking and choosing individual cases simply allows the intellectually lazy to draw the conclusion of their choice.


      If you want counter-examples, how about the millions who view porn without going out and abducting someone?

    23. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Dirtside · · Score: 2

      Social structures are common among organisms because they, however indirectly, help organisms survive and spread their genes better. Social animals procreate more often, and have healthier offspring, than non-social animals, generally speaking. Obviously there are still plenty of non-social animals, but they are dwarfed in number by social animals.

      His point, poorly made, was not that the concept of society is fictional, bur rather that any given social structure is a fiction, existing only in the minds of those involved. A society is not a thing the way a house is a thing. If you have people, and they build a house, and then the people all die, the house still exists. If you have a society of people, and the people all die, the society no longer exists.

      --
      "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    24. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I firmly believe that promiscuity and homosexuality both constitute being 'truly sick'.

      You need to get laid more, preferably by as many different guys as possible.

    25. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is just afraid a fragile man like himself might become a sweet-meat for some huge man with a nose ring and too many tatoos...

      It is always a trip to listen to these holier than though people because despite paying lip service to believing in god they believe that the world would come to a stop without them.

    26. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by MichaelPenne · · Score: 1

      > Fact is that subversive sex is not very healthy, and thus it is in societies best interest to curb such activity for the good of everyone.

      Safe sex is certainly more healthy than many practices "society" doesn't seem to want to "curb".

      Or are you also planning to start "curbing" overeating of fatty fried food sometime soon?

      > Drugs destroy families and productivity just like unhealthy sex does.

      Alcohol is the most destructive drug, followed by tobacco. Does that mean that you plan to legalize and tax the other "drugs" as well?

      > We dont enjoy suffering because of your mistakes, so we extend a loving hand.

      Umm, the "loving hand" that attaches a handcuff and throws the non-violent drug user (& it seems your plan is the "unhealthy subversive sex" practitioner) into an overcrowded, violence ridden jail? These so called "acts of love" that have left us spending far more on prisons than on schools...seems to me that the world would be a better place with alot less of such "love" and alot more reason...

    27. Re:It is not 'deviancy' - it is 'perversion' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Modern society is learning the hard way that you can't encourage perversion and expect people to act morally. When we all grasp this basic truth, the world will be a lot better off.

      You said it man! It's so simple... you'll probably be flogged for saying it. For some people, snapping out of society's trance is like having their spinal cord severed.
  49. Speak for yourself, I'm looking for motives by Interrobang · · Score: 4, Insightful

    we need to pay politicians and bureaucrats to tell us what to do in cyberspace... the one place where the 1st Amendment should reign supreme...

    Hmm, last I checked, I don't have a 1st Amendment in my Constitution, and "cyberspace," being, as nearly as I can define it, not really a "place" at all so much as a metaphor for a place, doesn't de facto or de jure fall under completely US jurisdiction (no matter what you all might think cough Sklyarov cough), that's an extremely Americocentric way of putting it.

    Now free speech, on the other hand, freedom of the press, perhaps, and certainly multilateralism and international cooperation, I'll go for.

    In any case, we don't need stodgy academics, consolidationist free-market wet-dream media moguls, or anyone else turning the internet into television with fewer moving parts (there's a reason I don't watch television!) -- nor in preaching the scripture that the freedom and openness of the internet are an illusion that should be dispelled as soon as possible (to what end?).

    As with all agendists of every stripe, I have to ask what this guy's ulterior motives are. Can some kind Slashdotter with some time on their hands find out who's (which media company, dare I venture?) paying him?

  50. we made google by GutterBunny · · Score: 2

    Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but this story got google'd. Does this mean /. is real news now? Horror of horrors.

    http://news.google.com/news/gntechnologyleftnav. ht ml

    --
    managers...why god invented purgatory
  51. I'll tell you what the Net is doing to me... by duck_prime · · Score: 1

    It's wasting my time! Thanks a lot, Slashdot. Thanks a lot, Onion. Thanks a lot, MSNB-- er, comment over. Gotta go.

  52. Just begging to be a survey by gmkeegan · · Score: 2

    Thing(s) you would be likely to get for Cowboy Neal in trade:

    - Case of beer
    - Case of Scotch
    - Case of Maalox
    - Case of SPF 90
    - Case of depression
    - Case of anxiety
    - Case of Cowboy Neal's Genuine Imitation Butter Substitute

    My other sig is a Mercedes

  53. definitely _not_ one of the first by decathexis · · Score: 1
    Ridiculous. If this center "just opened", then it definitely is not "one of the first". Not even one of the first ten, not even one of the first hundred. Perhaps one of the first thousand...

    Here are a just a few others off top on my head (all of those have existed for several years):

    This by no means is a complete list - I am just too lazy to paste more links. Also, a number of books have been published on the subjects, e.g. The Internet in Everyday Life, The Control Revolution, etc.
  54. Other News in Oxford by Greenisus · · Score: 1

    Today is an important anniversary for Oxford.

  55. Earlier body studying the same - Pew Charitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another example of a body researching the societal effects of the internet

    The Pew Charitable Trust

  56. Durr, uhh by Marcos+the+Jackle · · Score: 0

    The Internet makes you stoopid.

  57. -5 offtopic by oggodog · · Score: 1
    The use of AD is discriminitory against all
    non-christian faiths.


    Your comment has nothing to do with the topic.

  58. FAO : Moderators by Martin+S. · · Score: 2

    Sure, it's off topic, but I have karma to burn.

    Moderators,

    Have you had an irony bypass today ?

    The link is to a parody of mass media hysteria currently being stired up in the UK by the low-end tabloids and minor celeberaties about the 'corruption of children' by the Internet.

    In my humble opinion, this is frighteningly ontopic for this article.

    1. Re:FAO : Moderators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The link is to a parody of mass media hysteria currently being stired up in the UK by the low-end tabloids and minor celeberaties about the 'corruption of children' by the Internet.

      ...and if they're not all careful, someone will make another self prophicising Brass Eye special. Oh, sorry, I'm talking Nonce Sense.

  59. Re:Political Debate tsarkon babykiller commie back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OMFG! Heinrich and his babykilling cabal of communists is back. he may be funny this time, but know, moderators, that this man has a bonafide history of supporting things that lead to the DEATH of innocents. this man's black heart is tainted with the deaths of hundres of voices and souls screamingout for vengeance against him and his cronies who plans the executions of INNOCENTS!

  60. I'm not sure about the less protest part.... by MichaelPenne · · Score: 1

    Because the openess of the net mimics in some ways the closeness between 'common' and leader in the early days of democracy.

    The printing press made it possible for folks like Tom Paine to print up and rapidly distribute political pamphlets (Paines writings, like "Common Sense" are often credited with being more important than Washington's leadership in winning the war), which were read aloud and widely discussed in the many taverns of the day.

    There was much less distance between leaders and 'commons', (since there were so few taverns?;-), & folks are reported to have discussed politics much more openly and frequently than folks do in pulblic today.

    So the net may well encourage more open debate, debates that folks are often afraid or don't care to have in person anymore, and may help the 'commons' communicate more directly with the leaders. But I'm not sure it will lead to less protest, unless the leaders listen willingly. My guess is that the ability of disaffected groups to communicate rapidly and globally will lead to more protests, at least until a good way is found to let folks excercise their political power through the web (like e-referenda?) rather than in the streets...

  61. Most important... by KinkyClown · · Score: 1

    Will this study be publish on the net?

  62. Re:Social Engineering tsarkon the baby raper back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know you and your types. The communist is back. I know you and how you want to purify yourself on the alter of intellectual debate. I know you think you are smarter and should think for everyone and democracy is bad and that we should atone. I know you do nothing and you are a professional academic and that is sadly a contradiction in terms. I know no one has ever benefited from your work, you don't have to prove yourself, and that you stand on the shoulder of many men with a crushing boot as do your 1st world friends. We all do. But somehow you get absolution from being evil, you are better; you are a deeper thinker and are somehow not a party to this evil dance of greed and decadence. You fucking anti right wing types, by no mean would I condone fascism, but ultra left wingers and ultra right wingers are religious zealots. They wash themselves of blame and use human sacrifice to prove they are right. You are a fear monger, and a naysayer. But Red October_30th, you never prove yourself. You hide in school, hiding from the proving grounds. You enjoy life; you expect to live 3 times longer than most people on earth. You think you want it equal for everyone one, but you will give up none of the accoutrements and amenities of the 1st world lifestyle, while you spit venomous remarks at your enemies the right wing establishment, but you theories about cabals of men raping the world, well, whatever you theorize about you are a party to so fuck off. You vile scum. I wanted to ask you how it feels to put the diapers back on a baby you just raped? Look at the communist left wing Bund, rules by intellectuals, and this lead to the power base of V I Lenin to crush the life out of hundreds of millions of people for almost a century. Real good left wing establishment, the soviet empire. You are such a clouded thinker. Democracy may not be the best, but mobocratic revolutions lead to thought policing, and capitalism breed a daily voting system that the stupid and smart all partake in, voting thousands of times a day with your wallet. And those who detract from such a system are generally inferior. They claim to not being able to get a break but they don't try. Like you don't 'October,' the pussy behind the veil. You don't like a system which makes you look pathetic, you never published, you don't have a patent, you never helped anyone, you only make enough to feed yourself and you greedy needs, you will never affect another man. And charity? I have taken many under my wing and show them how to fish metaphorically whenever I can, but your bourgeois Volvo driving liberal asshole don't want to take the time out of your day to teach a man to fish, you want the government to do it all for you, and raise your kids, and pay for your health while you suck down cigarettes and blame it on the government and evil business. Think of WW2, think of all the people who had no choice and died. 55 million people dies, and more would have had not the biggest evil capitalists come in a kicked fucking ass. And that we did. USSR, 11 million dead. Germany 4 million. Japan 1.4 million. The USA? 300,000 dead. We kick fucking ass. We saved you and your fucking little pit's neck. Now that the average age of the world is half that of how many years have passed since then most of you liberal idiots have forgotten that you and your Volvos and you free thinking and all that shit would be dead, and you'd either have grown up in a Hugo Boss Hitler youth suit or in a stupid piece of shit clothing made by the USSR with seams falling out, wishing for blue jeans.

    I was in USSR in 1991. I doubt you've ever been, and even during glasnost/perestroika the place was a fucking dump. Go to Moscow now, the mafia does a better job than left wing commies. And that holds true. Left wing thinkers are lower than the mafia because they justify everything.

    I can't believe you sit on your pulpit, unproven, unmarried, and not responsible for anyone but yourself allowed to masturbate yourself all day long, with the implements of greed. A full stomach, an easy non labor life, DVD players, a fucking computer and an internet connection. Then you come out and kick the balls of the very engine that provides everything that is real to you. Everything you look at is a product of entrepreneurship and genius - both. Sometimes, when a guy like Howard Hughes has both, the results are rather interesting, but most of the time the innovators and the entrepreneurs work hand in hand to deliver, something you were never a part of because you are inferior and you hide in academia unproven and spout your vicious epithets from your perch where you frothing rabid thoughtless speech wafts into the air largely unheard, your snarky self congratulating style is hated by all. I want to kick you in the testicle sack and sodomize you with a broom handle. I want you to feel the burning pain of something in your ass. That is how the 3rd world feels every day, but you claim to know nothing about that ass-pain. But you are a cause of it. You vote with your presence in a society. You are a part of the collective, and if you think those less fortunate consider your defense of them, they are too fucking STUPID to even differentiate and advocate from an evil oppressor. You mother-fuckers walk a thin line. The line is between stupidity and insanity.

    So now the anti government anti free society lunatic and terrorist supporter comes to Slashdot to troll, to quip and chime in with his thought policing. From the Bund, the communist union left wing shop. Even Albert Einstein, god bless him, was a member of the communist party. He would have been a highly intelligent accomplished but completely unfit for public leadership - which is why he largely stayed out of politics. But without entrepreneurship and a free society, the money and equipment to verify his theories would have never come to pass. Why did my Einstein live in the USA, in Princeton NJ? Why not Russia? When did Russia EVER beat the west to proving and or utilizing Einstein's theories? Well, you see left wing death organizations like USSR and the EU, which is turning out to be a force of evil with their anti Turkish and Anti Israeli racist elitist attitude, is a similar fucking hole. A bunch of decadent, self fucking mental masturbatory mother fuckers Oedipus slime molds who sit around and spout trash while their own racist anti entrepreneur system crumbles and the third world is as pissed off as ever.

    You god damn bitch, why do you come here and shit on these threads, you defecate and eructate forth such crap with your snarky one liners and you deprecated method of thinking. You communist friends are gone, the lost. Fucking Moscow is a better capitalist than you. And if you think that legislated mediocrity, world "equality (doesn't exist as all humans are equal in the eyes of law but in terms of aptitude and usefulness to others, there is no equality, it's a gigantic strata)" is something that people want, fuck you, no one wants it, they all want everything from themselves, as you do but you deny it. I hate you, and I want to kick your testicles.

    The baby-fucking pedophile death bringing terrorist cunt mother fucker Oedipus Rexxed out communist idiot with his Volvo and his bike path is back. He is a rapist, a terrorist, and killer.

    DO not trust this man, he has been known to say things that lead to the justification of rape, mass killings, thought policing, societal cleansing. He is a typical proto fascist/communist/dictator, and the far left and far right meet at the bottom of a circle where Red October_30th is positioned.

  63. Cosmo and Penthse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    used to do a good job with that long before the net took off...

  64. What I've Become... sans porn by tazochai · · Score: 1

    A friend paid me a complement recently, he said I was mentally prepared for life as a cyborg.

    I'm a software developer, and a 28-yr-old grrl. Always been into coding and the internet. What changed me recently is that I started telecommuting, and mmorpg (Darg Age of Camelot = crack).

    I used to exercise almost every day, make dinner, and shower regularly. Now I'm constantly on either my work notebook or my gaming pc. I avoid leaving the house until I've run out of code red. I lost my connection for 9 hours and 20 minutes about a month ago, and I freaked.

    What is the net doing to me? People here have made posts about the news and politics and porn, but I'm talking about daily life changes, and who I am at the core of my being. I still don't give a crap about politics, but almost all my socializing happens over the internet, and certainly all my work does, and my play. (sorry, no porn). None of this bothers me, I so completely enjoy life this way.

    Until someone takes my connectivity away again...

  65. Predation probably more genetics than reading by MichaelPenne · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Well, for one, the observed tendency is for many (though definitely not all) negative effects of promiscuity, pornography, and homosexuality to be social negative effects.

    Reference?

    > A few months ago, some pervert broke into a private home 50 miles north of mine in the middle of the night and kidnapped a preteen girl.

    "Until the terrible events of June 20, Russell and Andrea Yates and their five children were the kind of family that a Ronald Reagan might have pointed to as a model for America, or that might have been paraded on the platform at a Republican national convention: responsible, professional father; "stay-at-home mom" and home-school teacher; well-scrubbed, neatly dressed, smiling children--a tribute to "traditional family values," as envisioned by the Christian right."
    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001 /yate-j02 .shtml

    So do you call Christians "immoral perverts" since Andrea Yates was one? Maybe the Bible made her do it?

    From my own review of the evidence, it seems to me that people who prey on other people generally have biochemical problems, probably mostly related to genetics. Certainly some drugs & experiences can exacerbate these problems (such as Yate's religious experiences that led her to claim her kids were possesed), but ultimately, there is simply something medically wrong with a human predator, blaming other folks who are superficially like them clouds the issue: just because a Christian drowned her kids doesn't mean that Christians tend to drown their kids. Nor do homosexuals tend to abuse children.

    The fact is, folks who have biochemical problems tend to latch on to some experience in their life as the source of these problems, be it hearing about the devil in church or seeing pr0n on the 'net, these things tend to be _SYMPTOMS_ of an underlying biochemical problem, not CAUSES.

    Its easy to blame the problem on some behavior we don't like for our own reasons (I tend not to enjoy the company of religious rightists, for instance) but the fact is that people who have tendancies toward doing violence to other people need to either learn to control those tendancies themselves or be put away. It's that simple.

    As far as 'perversion' being the cause of violence, children were abused, people were raped, even back when folks who were 'different' were generally ostracized if not burned & I'm not sure the evidence suggests that there was less predatory violence in the past than there is today.

    For instance:
    History of Rape: A Bibliography
    http://www.geocities.com/history_gui de/horb/horb-c 14.html

  66. I don't think so. Read this and weep... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This matter is simply put: your rectum can receive a large penis easily and fully, and this can be quite pleasurable, if you want it. And you must want it, before it can happen. That is, you must be at ease, in mind and body. The rectum is like a very elastic pipe with a set of muscular rings at the end, the anus. The anus acts as a plug, to stop things from going out, or let them in. It tightens and relaxes like purse-strings on a bag, and is fairly strong.

    This muscle is controlled by the mind, and emotions influence how tense it will be at any given time. Good fucking can't happen unless the anus is relaxed, and this may take some learning, some patience, and some time.

    Many of us are taught to be ashamed out our rear ends, of the things that happen there, and the sensations of this area. the anus can be an erotic place; most children experience pleasure in shitting, but many adults ignore these feelings, in their rush to get the act over with as little guilt as possible. The rear end becomes an ignored and mysterious place. The anus is usually held tight, and becomes the site of problems like hemorrhoids, yet the feelings are still there. Awareness and conscious control of the anus can be learned, although this takes time to discover.

    Look at it as exploring something new, part of your own body. The first thing is, how do you feel about your anus and rectum? Are they a part of you, or do you emotionally push them away? If you feel bad about your ass, that it's a dirty place, this is where your explorations must begin. Explore your anus, to discover how it feels and
    that it's not dirty, that you can touch it and not get hurt. You can do this two ways: by yourself or with a friend/partner/lover.

    If you explore yourself you have control over you actions. Climb into a tub of hot water (or a shower or on your bed) and relax. Then with you fingertips explore your genitals and thighs, gliding around to feel what it's like. Then bend your legs and slide your fingers down between them lower and deeper, past your testicles. Touch your anus very lightly with one finger. Then with several. Push down a little- how does it feel? If you like that, try masturbating while pressing several fingers on your ass.

    Now you've made contact. If it feels good there or if you sense that it will, keep exploring. Don't push yourself to do more than you want at any one time- pace yourself comfortably, but try to tune in on your rear; discover when it's tight and when it's loose, and how you can control this.

    At some point you'll want to take the plunge, inserting a finger inside. It's a remarkable discovery that you can do this, and it opens up a world of new sensations. Be aware that the rectum is a sturdy, flexible organ and can't be hurt by fingers, a penis or other similar objects, unless you violently intend to do so: if you don't make your finger force your ass, or your ass force your finger, they will work well together. Sharp edges like fingernails can scratch it, and that's not good, so be sure your nails are well trimmed and filed first. The bottom line is if it can take all your excrement in its many shapes and sizes, it can take smaller things like fingers and cocks.

    Usually there's nothing inside the end-part of the rectum; but sometimes there might be small particles. You'll discover that these are harmless and easily washed off after. Or you can clean out your rectum first, douching with an enema bottle and warm water. Many people who enjoy ass fucking do this first by habit, or you can use a quick and easy method developed by Dr. Bill Horstman, a San Francisco sexologist, which consists of douching with a large basting syringe, which can be bought at most supermarkets. It's a big plastic tube, pointed at one end (make sure to file down the tip so it's not scratchy) and a rubber glove on the other. Filled with water, it holds just enough to clean the rectum thoroughly and easily.

    Now, I suggest you lie back on your bed (or wherever), and bend your legs to bring your feet up close to your rear. Get into an enjoyable masturbation with one hand, and grease a finger of the other with KY Jelly or another lubricant. Then place it at your anus, and push very gently, slowly. Your finger will go in just a little. If you want to get your finger in farther, you must keep pushing gently and firmly, and release the anus muscle and then you will feel you finger go all the way through, past the thick muscle and into the soft, quiet rectum.

    It may feel uncomfortable at first, because you've taught yourself to regard anything in the rectum as dark and dirty, and you'll want to push it out. But take it easy; try letting your finger rest there as you're masturbating. You may feel a little burning or irritation, but this will turn to pleasure if your masturbation is feeling good. If you like, climax with your finger inside, and see how it feels. If all this seems good to you, keep up the exploration. If it bothers you, withdraw and try again later; take you time.

    Once you get used to having your finger inside, you can discover new things. Stick you finger all the way in. Then feel around inside, gently, (and for guys especially:) as you masturbate, until you touch on a silver-dollar sized, round lump behind you testicles. this is your prostate gland, and you'll know when you've touched it because it'll feel hard and nice. If there's a sharp pain, however, withdraw your finger and go see a doctor, because it means your prostate might be infected. Otherwise, try moving your finger up and sown against the prostate as you masturbate. This will probably feel very good. Also you'll notice that you can squeeze and unsqueeze your anus around the finger.

    Now you'll want to learn to loosen it enough to let in larger sizes. It may seem at first like you anus has a separate personality, doing things in its own way. But this is only because you've separated it in your mind. If you get to know it better, it'll eventually make friends with you, and the separation will disappear. After using your finger to meet it, get to know your anus more intimately. You can trace warm wet rings around its outside; after inserting a finger you can massage it, pressing outward in a circle, tensing and calming it, trying to curl your finger around its side, feeling its touch through the skin - while exploring, if you act like you're shitting, pushing out, this will help even more. Practice stretching and tensing/calming your anus around your finger; you want to do this until it can be widened easily and painlessly.

    Next you can insert two (or more) fingers, seeing how far you can bend them apart. Later, you might want to try a dildo (a straight, smooth, round tipped object like those found in sex shops). It's a good idea to use something that won't break, such as plastic or rubber. Glass objects can sometimes shatter, and a candle could snap in the
    middle leaving half stuck inside, so be careful... you don't want to become the next weird newsworthy object of humiliation! Otherwise, feel free to indulge, since you can only hurt your rectum with sharp objects or violent jabbing motions.

    You might want to move right on to experimenting with a partner, and this is also another way to learn about your ass. Say to them "I'd sure like to enjoy anal pleasures, but I'm not used to it and a little afraid," Then your partner can turn you on, after douching if necessary, and that they can place their fingers at your anus during sex. They can also suck and tongue your anus if they like, or insert their finger(s). These are called analingus and postillioning, and can be soothing, warm, and exciting. A nice thing is for your partner to masturbate you as their finger is inserted in your rectum.

    If neither of you can get this far, because your anus just won't relax, it means you're anxious somewhere, or you simply don't know how to relax it yet. This is not always the easiest thing to learn, and there's no reason to feel bad about it, since the anus is very likely to just follow old habits of not opening up. It takes time. Take risks only when you really feel safe, and don't allow yourself to be forced open. It helps to talk about this, and how you're feeling.

    One especially nice act that can relax your rear is for your partner, during sex, to simply trace soft rings around the opening, pressing with one or two lubricated fingertips, going around and around. This usually has a calming, wholesome effect.

    If, after much gentle trying over a period of time, your anus just won't loosen, I would suggest you might have a mental wish not to be entered that you aren't aware of. If this might be, explore the possibility in your mind and with your partner; you may want to see a counselor or sexologist, or you may decide that anal intercourse just isn't for you.

    If you do progress in your explorations, the time will come for your partner to insert his penis. If this is what you both want, let it happen as it will, without planning on doing it. Be easy about it, trying one of the positions I've described. It may take several (or many) tries, so relax and feel the sensations. If it hurts, and it might, just ask him to withdraw gently. Some pain may happen, and this is usually normal, just as in vaginal sex can be painful at first. If it's a strong or sharp pain, back off, but you'll discover that the mild pain turns to blissful delight during sex. As he enters, you may experience a violent urge to go to the bathroom, or you may imagine you're going to piss or shit right there. This is a fantasy of your mind and body, through lack of use and conditioning; if you respect these feelings and have patience, they will change through practice. Also, if you're sexually excited, these feelings and any tightness will lessen considerably. The best rule is to take it in steps, going easy and smooth. It may seem difficult for a while, but you may be surprised by a rapid change from discomfort to sweet pleasure.

    There is a special position for you if you want to take entire control of the act. This way you can go fast or slow as you like. It involves your partner lying on their back. Then you squat down over their hips, facing them, and guide their penis to your ass. Then you simply sit down on it, gently and as far as you want to go. You make any motions with your hips, or you can just feel what it's like.

    There are two other ways you can take more control, which are useful not only if you're new at it, but also if the male has an extra large penis. You can use your hand as a stopper, wrapping it around his penis where you like so
    only so much is let in (or he can use his own hand). Also you can use a position allowing only limited entry - a good one is where you lie flat on your stomach, with him lying on top; by pushing down with your pelvis or tightening your buttocks you can limit penetration even more.

    After insertion, give a luxurious amount of time in becoming used to it. Let him worry about what to do, and you just pay attention to the warmth and you just pay attention to the sensualness of it. Try masturbating - this is a regular part of intercourse, and may surprise you with its explosive intensity.

    Enjoyment in being the ass-person comes with letting go, into the experience. It's not being passive in our cultural sense, since your partner can be lying still with your making all the motions. Rather it's receiving and giving, their care and yours, your bodily/emotional desires and theirs, in various combination. It's reaching and
    creating with your excitement, so that your union becomes fusion of give and take, in and out- a greater wholeness of being.

    You can be entirely still or jumping all over, or anywhere in between. Most of the body motions are easy to learn, such as thrusting and grinding. It can get a little complicated at times, however, since if you both move your motions must be coordinated. The easiest thing to do is rotate your rear in a circular way, as he thrusts. A
    tricky and subtle skill is to learn how to squeeze your anus, tight and loose, to fondle his pleasure more and start vibrating, glowing ripples up and down your rectum. You'll know if you're moving in good ways, because you'll feel a rhythmic flow inside and out. You'll begin to forget where you are, as your movements melt into your partner's.

  67. What Kind of beer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sam Adams, Brewer Patriot, we hope. Not the British stuff that John Cleese once described as warm swamp water with pond life in it.

  68. A very important question.... by __aahlyu4518 · · Score: 2

    Let's ask ourselves not wat the net is doing to us... but what WE are doing to the net... ;-)

  69. Yes, because nobody is studying the Internet now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course, if you search any academic index for articles on the Net and social interaction, say, you'll come up with at least 50 studies from the past three years alone. I should know. A group of us at the U Wisconsin just got a piece accepted for pubication on levels of Internet use and social interaction. Time spent online was a positive predictor (using two-stage least-squares regression, with controls for demographics, media use, personality and values) of civic engagement and attendence at public events. The reciprocal relationship did not hold.

    That's just one of at least a dozen studies that explicitly correlate or show causal links between various measures of Internet use and positive levels of political/civic engagement. Check out Franzen (2000, European Sociological Review), Robinson et al. (2000, Social Science Computer Review), Shah et al. (2001, Political Communication) and Shah et al. (our piece, upcoming in Journalism and Mass Communication Quarterly; no, I'm not Shah) for examples. (Though see Nie, 2001, The American Behavioral Scientist, for a counter claim.)

    But I'm sure glad those number-fearing, cultural-studies practicing Brits will finally tackle this ground-breaking subject.

  70. Last Post! by alpg · · Score: 1

    I have travelled the length and breadth of this country, and have talked with
    the best people in business administration. I can assure you on the highest
    authority that data processing is a fad and won't last out the year.
    -- Editor in charge of business books at Prentice-Hall
    publishers, responding to Karl V. Karlstrom (a junior
    editor who had recommended a manuscript on the new
    science of data processing), c. 1957

    - this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...