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Danger's HipTop Renamed and Released
FireMage writes "According to this press release from Danger, their cheap, cool, consumer targeted, cellphone/PDA "convergance device", the HipTop is now avalible nationwide as the T-Mobile SideKick, as in you should actually be able to buy one today. They've even revived one of their nifty-mysterious original flash splash pages to announce it. I'm all for clever hacks, but it's nice to finally see what seems to be a well thought out product in this arena. (The HipTop was first mentioned on Slashdot and again in a review .)"
I have a review unit on my desk, and am super impressed. A larger impression piece will be coming out just as soon as I have time to write it.
Interesting that T-Mobile (was Voicestream) has dropped the Nokia 9290 for this product and the Pocket PC Phone Edition. Too bad.
If so, that's very bad, because T-Mobile's WAP service (in the UK) is unusably poor, due to their badly thought out menu layouts. I wouldn't buy it if I couldn't configure it how I liked.
However, not having a touch screen I think hampers it immensly, and not being able to dial a number (one that's not already in your address book) without openning it and punching the number in using the keyboard is going to limit it.
I know it's not being targetted to business types, but I think that it's the business types who can really make it popular.
I'm hopful that the next version of this will have those issues taken care of.
Give a hand, not a hand-out.
As quoted from their rate plan site:
- After 1st year, unlimited becomes 15MB/month, $3.50/additional MB.
Coverage not available in all areas. Limited time offer and cannot be combined with any other promotions. Credit approval and 12 month service ageement required with $200 fee for early termination. Terms and condidtions include mandatory arbitration provision. Customer billing address must be within and offer valid only in the following T-Mobile (VS) markets: Denver, Colorado Springs, Las Cruces, Portland, Boise, Albequerque, Santa Fe, Chicago, Milwaukee, Atlanta, and all VS markets in the following states: Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. Incoming and outgoing calls are rounded up and billed in full minute increments from the time the network begins to process the call (before the call rings or is answered) through its termination of the call. All allocated airtime minutes must be used in the month provided and do not carry over.
In other words, after the first year, you are paying $3.50 a meg after 15 per month (that's 500K a day...)
Not to mention you can't even get this thing unless you live in a certain area.
I've been pining over this thing for months now, get the great news, happen to live in PA, and now I'm royally pissed off. Way to go...
sig--we don't need no goddamn sig
but can you use it to frag your buddies in UT while on you're driving to work?
"...more and more of our imports come from overseas." - G.W. Bush
Guess we'll just have to put up with your really lame 9th post then.
available to everyone around the clock, how come no one has a FUCKING CLUE how to spell?
"convergance"? I mean FUCK, that can't even be PRONOUNCED properly.
All this memory, all this processing power, no one has a fucking iSpell somewhere? Preferably something that gives electric shocks whenever vowels are substituted (flexable, rediculous, definately, etc ad nausem), and a siren goes off when you substitute consonants.
You put the screen on your cheek to talk on the phone? Um, isn't this a bad idea?
More info, including reports of people getting activated and having trouble getting activated, can be read at the DangerInfo Forums.
Then I got to trying some of the available combo devices, such as the QualComm PDQ, the VisorPhone and the Kyocera. None were good enough at both tasks for me to ever want to use one again.
The screens are way too small on the dedicated phones. The PDQ was a great innovator, and a damn fine doorstop. The bolt-on radio made the Visor too big and heavy to fit comfortably in a pocket, and the speaking position is surprisingly clumsy. The Kyocera is just a very large phone with a very tiny PDA.
I've finally come to recognize that they are two different devices used for different purposes that have an occasional need for convergence. Any hardware combination is going to be a compromise that makes the usability of both suffer. I think the best answer now is going to be bluetooth communications between two separate devices. Bluetooth will also come in handy with future consumer controls (think TV remotes that don't rely on an under powered IR or a cordless phone base that talks to your cell phone's earpiece, etc.,) so it has the potential to be used much more widely than just pocket to earpiece communicatons.
Let's just say that the news of this device is two years late and mostly underwhelming.
John
Imagen a beowulf cluster of these!
Is there an SDK for it? I looked but couldn't find anything. You would think they would take a lesson from Palm and encourage 3rd party applications.
As I'm sure anyone else who's dealt with the "standard" Java API on mobile phones call attest, I hope this one follows the MIDP a bit closer than... well... all the others. This has been a nightmare for me - unless you have the emulators/hardware to test every single new phone, there's no way you can guarauntee anything about the Java implementation. The Seimens M50 resizes all image canvases to fit the screen (so, scrolling is "problematic"), the Nokia 3410 has a clipping bug, plus can't create image canvases over 255x255 pixels. The list is endless, and not helped by the various proprietory extensions that are practically mandatory if you wish to get anything done.
Phone makes trying to grab the market by twisting a standard into something non-standard? Hmm, sounds like some other company...
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
s/Phone makes/Phone makers/;
(must remember to preview first...)
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
On the other hand, if I am missing something please educate me. Is that thing running Linux (Palm/PPC phones already run Java)? Or is it dirt cheap? There must be some explanation here...
Are there any plans for Bluetooth or SyncML support in future Danger products? I would really love to use something like this with iSync.
"The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
There probably is an SDK, but us lowly users can't get our hands on it. In the cell phone universe, the carrier only lets you run apps written by their "strategic partners".
Also, if you could write apps then you might use more bandwidth than T-Mobile has budgeted for, putting them in the same pinch that P2P file sharing put the broadband ISPs in.
Option value is good and end-to-end is good; maybe someday the service providers will even figure it out.
Someone already did you blind idiot...you're almost as bad as him -- he can't spell.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
One thing which is interesting is that T-Mobile has an address in Canada, even it does redirect to their USA web site. Maybe they have plans for north of the Border? Or maybe they just bought up the address just in case.
It would be nice to be able to buy their phone for use up here.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
AOLî Instant Messengerï (AIMî) Service
Now your Buddy Listï goes where you go. Whether you're a hack or a poet - you can now chat instantly, anywhere using AIM.
Ok, granted, the open source AIM transport for Jabber isn't quite prime-time quality yet, but that's no excuse. I think they've unnecessarily limited themselves in this respect.
Does anyone know if it can do IMAP in the email client?
Also, I'm a java programmer and I've read some asides in articles that say that although it's has a JVM, you can't install programs directly on the phone, is that true?
Thanks.
Don't you mean "ad nauseam"?
*ducks*
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I've been a T-Mobile customer for more than a year. I subscribed to the MobileStar mobile internet service back before T-Mobile bought them. I'm a gadget freak, and I telecommute full time. I'm the perfect target for this device.
I spoke to my local Houston T-Mobile sales office last week and again yesterday, dying to get my hands on one. They said they had 'em, but couldn't sell 'em to me until Oct 1. Fine, no problem. I showed up this morning at 9am to meet them when they opened the front doors, concerned that I wouldn't be the first in line to grab one. Turns out T-Mobile didn't even have them anywhere in Houston.
I ran over to the Galleria CompUSA, where I'd already seen the boxes, and asked to buy one. Sure, they said, but it's $450. I explained to the clerk that that was the price without activation, and that it was $250 with activation. They had to call two different reps to figure out I was right - but the T-Mobile reps actually told the clerks not to sell the devices because the service wasn't ready.
I then had to call the local T-Mobile store, get them on the phone with CompUSA (all over my Verizon cell phone) and get them to agree that yes, they could sell it to me, yes, the service was active. But CompUSA still wouldn't lower the price from $450. Even worse, they couldn't activate it at the store - I had to hoof it back over to T-Mobile again.
At that point, I walked out of the store, went over to Verizon, and renewed my existing contract for another two years. I want to make sure I don't tempt myself and try that messy service again.
What's your damage, Heather?
nausea is the nominative case of the Latin for "disgust"; nauseam is the accusative (direct object) case, which is what is used after the preposition ad (to, towards).
HTH, HAND. (How do I say that in Latin?)
sulli
RTFJ.
i had to chance to play with one of these a couple months ago; i have a friend that works for danger and they've all had prototypes for a while now. the UI is extremely well thought out and easy to use - there's a little scrollwheel that lets you flip between menus more easily than most cellphone type things i've used. it's also fairly compact, lightweight, and cheap, compared with similar convergence devices.
the version my friend had also had a telnet client on it! he's since told me that won't be available with the release and may not ever be available for the actual product.
But I have some questions
From who? What service can I get? Where can I get coverage? Why something? When can I get it?
I live in a giant bucket.
Over and inch thick?! You're better with a Kyocera SmartPhone or a VisorPhone or a Treo Communicator for size!
...tha this, and only this, is what I'll buy a new device for:
-PalmOS
-integrated mobile phone (fromfactor: any old palm III or V with the speaking/ers part on the back->this means on the other side of the screen so I don't mess up the screen with my stubble)
-colour, highres screen
-removable storage
-wifi or bluetooth
And that's it...I already have a good phone (nokia 7110) and my current PDA (IIIc) suffice for everyday life. Only if my demands are met will I upgrade. I couldn't care less about an integrated mp3 player or removable storage on its own, especially if that means I don't get my phone/pda.
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
I checked the website - by the time I had put together my order, I was up to $284, plus a $35 activation fee, and a $50 mail-in-rebate.
Decided I couldn't wait to get my hands on it, went to a local store - walked out for $216 (with tax) and a $25 activation fee.
Part of the difference was I didn't get the headset (since it comes with an earbud, which is all I really wanted anyway) and I didn't get the AC adapter ($20, they didn't have it in yet). But I also didn't have to deal with the mail-in-rebate hassle.
Down side is they don't have the plan in the PoS, yet, so they have to call it in manually... But it'll probably still be activated before I would have gotten it shipped to me.
-=Best Viewed Using [INLINE]=-
Okay - I haven't seen a real one yet, but it's reasonably small. It comes with an OK voice plan, and a very good data plan. The built-in applications are pretty slick-looking, and it can handle e-mail attachments. Battery life is allegedly decent. The screen appears to be pretty nice.
Not to mention I'm a gadget freak. I have a Palm Vx, a Zaurus, an old Newton MessagePad 2100 (got it used for cheap about a month ago), a couple of Macs, and a bunch o' PC's. I have an iPaq 3700 series that I got last year, and I use a Blackberry for work. I've got a nice little cellphone (A Moto T193), and I used to use OmniSky with my Palm when the service first started up, though I've since ditched it.
I ought to be the perfect target market for a gizmo like this.
But I don't want it. Here's why.
First off, there doesn't appear to be any real mechanism for extending it with more apps so far. Give me SSH, even, and I could get some good business use out of it.
Then, the phone functionality seems awkward. There's no way to dial with the screen closed.
Finally, the service plan they're offering is only a teaser. I want all-you-can-eat wireless data, even if it costs a little more to get it. Per-MB pricing sucks, since you don't have great control over how much data a given website will transfer, for instance. Data can't be metered by the end-user that effectively, especially on a mobile platform.
The biggest reason I won't get it, though, is that my wife would have me sleeping on the patio for the entire year of unlimited data! Not worth it at all...
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
... from a friend of mine who works at Danger:
--snip--
Actually, I'm at the palo alto tmobile store now cheering on customers waiting in line!
Cool that we're on slashdot. I'll have to check it out on my hiptop.
--snip--
this is weak... i get 50-75 emails per day... i'm sticking with my Blackberry.
SiliconValley.com has audio of one of their reporter's interviews with Danger CEO Andy Rubin. Interesting stuff...
This device is unutterably Cool. I played with a working prototype more than a year ago. I'll buy one when it plays nice with others.
Right now, once you put data in, there's no easy way to get it back out. The OS is proprietary and there are no Palm or PC conduits to sync data with your favorite PIM.
Without synchronization, you might as well go back to pen and paper. Your traveling address book will never match your home book either way.
Can't say that this thing excites me at all. But I'm probably not the market they want: I don't have, or want, a cell phone, and after 10-months of trying to find a use for my Palm M100, it now sits, forgotten, in my sock drawer.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Check out Danger Info's unofficial forums or their main page. Note that they are not officially affiliated with Danger Inc.
Another unofficial website that says up to date with Danger info is at hiptop411.com
Don't waste those cycles! Put them to use! http://www.distributed.net/
I'm typing this message on it.
Already I like it better than the Sharp Zaurus. The keyboard is bigger and easier to use. An autocorrect feature capitalizes the first word of a sentance which already makes it easier to use.
The internet connection is much faster than my CDPD account and it looks like it's going to be very usable for email and occasional web use.
Oh and it's a phone, too.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
T-Mobile imposes several limitations when you activate the Sidekick plan. In particular, they do something mysterious to your account that makes GPRS data non-functional if you use the SIM card in other data devices (like the Handspring Treo). I got this firsthand from a T-Mobile rep, and it's confirmed here. I use several phones, including a GPRS-updated Treo 180, and switch among them to suit my needs, so this puts a damper on my enthusiasm... as do the limited voice minutes in the plan.
--Larry
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence
I want a PDA, with cell phone capability, solely though a handsfree headset. I don't want to have to hold my laptop up to my head to make a call, and I don't want to have to compromise any functionality from my pda so that it can be a phone too.
Do search on ebay for "sidekick creed" current bid looks to be arounf $800.
Shameless paste from ebay site:
T-Mobile Sidekick & T-Mobile Rocks the Rock
Can you walk the walk and talk the talk? Well, how about this...T-Mobile and Danger, Inc. want to know if you and your sidekick can Rock the Rock!
T-Mobile Rocks the Rock with an historic concert event on Alcatraz Island in San Francisco, California to celebrate the nationwide "break out" of T-Mobile wireless service across the U.S.
Winners of this auction Get More from T-Mobile with this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to hear special musical guest Creed as T-Mobile Rocks the Rock. Only 1,500 people will go to T-Mobile Rocks the Rock, being held October 10 on Alcatraz Island.
The winner of this auction will receive the following:
Be one of the first to own a T-Mobile Sidekick--autographed by internationally renowned actress and T-Mobile Global Spokeswoman, Catherine Zeta Jones.
One year of free mobile service for the T-Mobile Sidekick
Two tickets to the T-Mobile Rocks the Rock event, held on Alcatraz, October 10th, 2002
Round trip airfare for you and your sidekick (U.S. only)
One night stay in San Francisco
Introducing the T-Mobile Sidekick
It's your wireless everything
As in, everything you need for communication, information, and entertainment. Web browser, mobile snapshots, AOL® Instant Messenger(TM) Service, e-mail, full featured mobile phone, games, calendar, address, and more!
The Golden Gate National Parks Association
All proceeds of this auction will go to the Golden Gate National Parks Association. The Golden Gate National Parks Association is a nonprofit membership organization dedicated to the preservation and public enjoyment of the Golden Gate National Parks, including Alcatraz Island.
The prochure and the website says its just "GSM". Like, i dont know how things are in US with gsm networks but as far as i know, GSM network can operate on atleast 3 different bands which are 900, 1800 and 1900.
For the hell of it, i might even try to purchase one but before that i need to know on which band it works.
yush
Not sure exactly what you mean with your form factor comment, but other than that, the Kyocera 7135 sounds like what you want. WiFi/bluetooth via SDIO.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I want contact list, exportable and importable in any which way intelligently, a calendar with alerts, and that's about it. I don't need apps like SSH and IMAP and crap. If I can make calls that sound good, look up contacts, call people and get alerts for calendar events, that's enough. And enough memory so I don't have to delete old events to add new ones!
TossableDigits.com: Temporary Phone Numb
There have been plenty of other convergence devices released in the past (Handspring Treo, Kyocera 6035).
How is this one special? It's got a proprietary OS (no installing your favorite PalmOS apps), and from the pictures I've seen on the DangerInfo forum, its form factor is horrible. Yet another "PDA first, then phone" like the Samsung I300.
The market has shown that only "Phone first, then PDA" devices succeed as convergence devices, and usually only Palm-based units. (A few Nokias being the exception.)
HipTop - DOA. Good luck taking on the Kyocera 7135, due out in a month or two.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
this article on slashdot 8 months ago mentioned that Danger devices would incorporate GPS. I look on their site, and no mention of GPS whatsoever. What gives? I'm kind of dissapointed; I thought I would finally have the problem of "where in the hell did I park my car at the mega-mall" licked.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
From what I gather, it was renamed from "Danger's Hiptop" to "T-Mobile Sidekick."
I propose the best of both worlds, and say they should name it "Danger's Sidekick" . That should boost their sales by 15% on name alone.
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
A few hiptop enabled sites for those picking up their Sidekicks today:
m
http://hiptop.bixworld.com
http://hiptop411.co
http://www.dangerinfo.com/sidekick
This comment was not generated by Uber Elephants...
It's GSM 900/1900.
rgbscan
Nice sig, I wonder where you got it?
unless you always carry a headset with you
Such as "am mostly super impressed"?
I could care less about the device, I only want the service. Or maybe Voicestream will make this plan available to non-danger users?
The UI is intuitive, the keyboard is easy to use, and having phone, IM, email, and web at my fingertips is way cool. Web browsing is a bit challenged on a small screen. /. Comes up fine but not another site I tried. The closed OS doesn't bother me since it comes with all that I need.
I just finished playing with mine and so far it feels like great device. Be forewarned this will not play well with anyone who is into open formats. Everything is proprietary and email, calender data, etc is mirrored on their servers not on your PC. There is no sync to Outlook, Notes, etc options (yet? theres a USB cable for restores and future applications).
The interface is very, very nice. Embedded people take note - this is how its done. Web surfing is the disaster you'd expect it to be. Think Lynx with grayscale jpgs. AIM works very nicely on here. My free camera is defective, all I'm getting is black. The email client is nice, but I still haven't figured out how often it will check external POP email boxes. Someone estimated 15 minutes or so and that's really unacceptable. The tmail.com account check is dynamic, so I'll probably just forward mail there and be done with it.
Phone works fine. I don't get the complaints about talking with the screen extended. The screen hides behind your hand so it more or less looks like you're holding a normal phone (not to mention all cell phones look silly anyway) at least to us lefties.
Everyone is getting speaker pops/shorts. Not cool. How did these get off the production line like this?
I'm sure a firmware upgrade or two will fix the initial problems us early adopters are getting. There's so much room for potential here, its going to be interesting to see where this goes. I'm stuck with it for 12 months. Here's to a ssh client or PDA like synching.
Yup, i *STOLE* it but i had that idea allready before i saw it at your messages ;))
yush
Can we expect someone to boot a linux kernel on it (and get Apache up and running)?
"What's that on your hip?"
"My webserver"
Your right the word up until last month was a dual band 900/1900 device, then all notes were ammended and it appeared as a single band 1900 phone.
Danger indicates the device would be useless outside the USA untill they strike agreements abroad.
I suppose they fear a grey market developing and T-Mobile wanted to cut cost. Eeh, why would a under 34 year old person want to use their phone outside of the USA. They don't travel on Business...
Think again Marketing. How many Americans go abroad for a Semester Abroad. Mummy and Daddy would pay that bill...
How many young kids are sent here and there on business as an up and comming gofer that they can work to the bone...
Granted they aren't CEO's and VP's unless they are running a surviving Dot.com
I went out and bought a SideKick yesterday and have been playing with it ever since. In a nutshell: I like it. It suits my needs perfectly which are:
- Access my web site to make sure it's up and to use my admin tools if necessary.
- Check email and send email: The Sidekick allows to set up multiple POP accounts which is very useful.
- AOL instant messaging to communicate with co-workers and others when I am not in from of my pc. This is great for trouble shooting and having multiple conversations at once to co-ordinate activities if necessary.
The phone features work great and nicely integrated into the address features to allow for quickly getting to numbers and dialing.
The over all information architecture is smooth and intuitive, I didn't have to look in the manual to figure anything out.
Getting the service up and running was a snap. The only glitch was when creating an account on the Sidekick you are then invited to T-Mobile's web site to log in with your new account, but when I tried I was informed that I had no account. Not sure what happened there but it's not important anyway with repect to getting full use out of the Sidekick.
Other fun stuff is the various noises it makes when you are doing something with the device and the flashing lights in the scroll wheel is a nice touch. Adds to the "friendlyness" of it.
Typing messages is not a problem for me on the key board either for shortish messages. It's definitely a tool to be used when away from your main information input device.
The service plan is a pretty great deal at $40/month unlimited data transfer that' what sold me. Now if they could build in BlueTooth that would rock.
The lack of an ssh client would mean that webmin would be the only 'secure' way to admin a unix-based server via the hiptop. Here's hoping for an ssh app! [and IMAP/SSL!].
My Daily photo website.
Yeah yeah yeah, no SDK, no third-party apps. Maybe, just maybe, that's because Danger entered the marketplace all of 72 hours ago. Why is there more software for the Palm? Maybe because Palm have a 6 year lead. If you'll remember, Windows 1.0 was a big pile, Linux 1.0 didn't have what you'd call a complete feature set, and Palm 1.0 wasn't all that amazing either.
Honestly, I've been salivating over the Sidekick for about 3 months. I'm still on the fence about it, but the lack of an SSH client, an SDK, and an interociter isn't going to enter into the decision process.
Interociter
-=What do I want? I'm an American. I want more.
> I'm an idiot.. At least this [bug] took about 5 minutes to find..
We need to find some new terms to describe the rest of us mere mortals
then.
-- Craig Schlenter in response to Linus Torvalds's
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