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LinuxOrbit Looks At Libranet GNU/Linux 2.7
GonzoJohn writes "Linux Orbit has reviewed Libranet GNU/Linux 2.7: Other Linux distribution companies have tried to create commercial Linux products based on Debian GNU/Linux, but few have achieved long term success. Progeny Linux comes to mind as a commercial Linux distribution company whose Linux product met with good reviews, but couldn't remain in business. Libranet is a rare exception to this rule. Libranet GNU/Linux has been around quite a while and continues to build a devoted Linux user base on a commercial product based on Debian GNU/Linux. With their most recent release of Libranet GNU/Linux 2.7, Libranet continues to improve on an already solid Linux distribution."
The only Linux distro I would run on a server is Slackware because it is the least performance hungry and most stable distro out there and I have used almost everything. Debian is great on workstation, but not servers because its just a bit more resource hungry then Slack, but it is easier to use for common tasks! Frankly all my servers run BSD except for database boxes for which nothing beats Solaris with Oracle running on top, but most firms and people cant afford Sun Servers so they should run BSD for things like Apache and MySQl. Now you can comment away.
I think the problem with commercial Debian derived distributions is that there are no 'guaranteed' future income. Debian makes it so damn easy to upgrade.
When I used RedHat, I always bought a CD for each upgrade (from 5.0 to 5.1, to 5.2, to 6.0 etc). The reason: upgrading meant manually download individual packages and installing them in the right order. When I recently upgraded from Debian 2.2 to 3.0, all I had to do was change the sources.list, do apt-get update, and apt-get dist-ugprade. All dependencies and installation order was taken care of.
With RedHat (and I suspect other RPM based distributions), they were 'guaranteed' money from me, since I wanted to upgrade. With Debian based distribution, I no longer feel the need to buy a CD to keep current (even on dialup).
Je ne parle pas francais.
Seriously, open source software just does not name their products well. Who in God's Green Earth this is a good name for their product? It's not sexy or cool, and is too convoluted for such a simple product, which is Linux.
And the number of times this articles says GNU/Linux is more than enough to make me nauseous.
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
But I will say the Libranet GNU/Linux 2.7 does NOT use X Windows for the graphic installation routine. Instead, Libranet uses easy to follow ncurses-based text menus for its install method is disturbing. After having walked 17 new-to-UNIX students through an ncurses-based ftp install of Red Hat, I will tell you that ncurses is not the way to go for new users.
Why? Because there is NO work-alike in the Windows world. What do I mean by that? Well, occasionally, you'll end up with a new-to-UNIX user who remembers DOS, or has used a terminal-based app before at work. What have they probably never seen before? ncurses. You are throwing them right into the fire, and giving them nothing that looks familiar to work with.
Talk about pain. And misunderstanding. And confusion about what the icons really represent and the cursor-flow mechanisms.
GUI install is where it's at. It's the best way to get a new-to-UNIX person onto a UNIX-alike system from install on, because you're building on something they are already familiar with - clicky clicky buttons and menus.
But you can ignore me. I just teach this stuff. :)
--mandi
Reading that long winded pro-Libranet story header, one has to think of Calvin and Hobbes:
;-)
'You know, I'm not sure if I'm reading an advertisment, a review or the product itself'
GNUness gracious! Gnuys! I'm GNUnna try it right GNUow.
Rien n'est plus beau que le creux du 0.
The menu paradigm in the GUI world was taken from that of NCURSES. All you need to know is TAB, Arrow Keys, Spacebar, and Enter. The menus usually have some sort of message like 'Use the tab key to move between fields' and sometimes the same for the Enter and Spacebar keys.
Ncurses is fine, it takes literally one paragraph for someone to learn how to use it, and most pick it up intuitively. If you're going to run a distro like libranet and you can't figure out NCURSES then you'll suck a lot when it boots up too. There's a reason mandrake and lindows exist
Photos.
Sure, there's lots of apps -- but that's because it's Debian. Why is it really better?
Not Linus Torvalds, the original creator of Linux.
See their about page
--mandi
I wasn't aware that Ian Murdock created Linux. I always heard that Linus Torvolds made linux... oh wait,, you meant the guy who created Debian GNU/Linux... Okay.
And another commercial distro, Xandros, based off of Corel Linux 3 (which is, in turn, based off Debian), is due out in the next 3 weeks.
http://www.xandros.com/anticipated.html
"Our manufacturer indicates the product should be available for shipping in the week of October 21."
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
So I went to look at libranet's product because I like debian but would like something with a better installer and hardware detection. I thought to myself that I could just download the ISO from linuxiso.org but that maybe I should help support them and pay for a real copy. So I decided to look at the prices.
They offer 4 different prices, one for past customers, one for new customers, one for students, and one for corporate users. There is not an immediately obvious difference between any of these releases and I can still download the ISO's from linuxiso.org. A student discount makes sense, fine, but then why does a corporation have to pay more per copy than a home user?
It seems like a much better model to offer two levels of product. The first is a retail model (possibly with an available student discount) with instructions, limited technical support, etc. Then you offer corporate contracts where you agree to provide a higher grade support (24 hour service, increased response time, etc) and you provide that at a higher rate. I see no evidence that as a corportate customer I would get anything better for my extra $40/copy, especially when I can just download an ISO.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
I've been using Libranet since the 1.x days. I've found it to be a very good distrobution. I found the Libranet install to be very easy and I love apt-get. Libranet reminds me of what Mandrake used to be in it's earlier days. It is a lot like Debian but with a lot of extra value added in. My favorite feature is their kernel compiling setup. They have a very easy to use process that lets you recompile your kernel. After you recompile the kernel it adds the newly recompiled kernel to lilo and keeps the old kernel as a lilo option so you can switch back if you have any problems.
I'm still not sold on this new Debian-based distribution. I'm not an idiot newbie user, so i can handle Debian's text-based approach to installation, administration, and customization.
So why should I shell out $60 dollars for Libranet? All of these applications it has can be downloaded and installed in Debian. The one major exception appears to be Adminimenu, which you can only get (to my knowledge) by ordering the Libranet CD or downloading the ISO. If you really want the program that bad, just download the ISO and burn it on a CD. Then find it in the CD.
But there's a reason (a good one) why Debian is always "behind the times" and doesn't include the latest software. Stability and continuity. Are all of these latest applications really that essential to get? No, most of them aren't. So let other users and other distributions struggle with their bugs.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
A few comments.
(1) Giving away a ISO for download is all good and fine for non-profit Linux distributions like Debian. It makes sense. It doesn't make sense, however, for a corporation trying to make money off of it to do that. The Linux community is not going to chastise the company because they don't offer ISO downloads. Think the path of least resistance. If you want to sell a product, you shouldn't also make it available for free.
(2) I stand by my earlier assertion that this isn't worth the extra $60 as opposed to downloading Debian. Almost all the additional software apps it has can be downloaded. And there's a reason why Debian doesn't always include the latest greatest software -- because it usually has problems. Debian prefers to let other distros walk through that minefield and benefit from the knowledge gained.
(3) For those of you talking about how much more "resource hungry" one distro is as opposed to another (i.e., many saying Debian more resource hungry than Slackware), do try to remember that they're all based around the same thing. You can remove anything you don't like, and if you remove enough stuff, Debian eventually looks like Slackware.
(4) For those of you whining about having to say all those extra syllables in GNU/Linux. Get over it. Its three extra letters to write, and if your giving a speech you don't have to say it every time. Distributions can simply be referred to by their distribution name (i.e., Debian) for short. But when something is written formally or said for the first time, it should be "Debian GNU/Linux" or "Redhat GNU/Linux" or whatever it is. Because that's what it is. Most of the tools and utilities and programs you use in a distribution are GNU stuff. Its only appropriate to say Debian GNU/Linux when speaking (at least upon any introduction; it need not be said more than once upon entering a new topic, after which simply Debian suffice's). It is not that hard to type in Debian GNU/Linux at the beginning of a paragraph.
Credit should be given where it is due. If your going to mention the kernel of an OS like Debian, you should also mention all the software around it. Hence, formally, Debian GNU/Linux.
I get sick of hearing how the FSF and Stallman are so greedy and unreasonable by expecting us to (at least formally) call a distribution like Debian "Debian GNU/Linux". Asking for due credit is not greedy or unreasonable. And, quite frankly, the reason they're asking isn't because of vanity, but because few new Linux users have any idea about Free Software and what it means to them.
Stallman was right when he said that he was being written out of history. GNU/Linux supporters don't want to bother telling new users about that wierd, long-haird, hippie guy who's always talking about this silly notion called Freedom. People afraid to talk about Freedom in the context of software because they think it makes them seem weak and foolish.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Obivously the poster didn't read this. :)
The initial interface of the Windows 2000 installer bears a strong resemblance to ncurses. I think it's even still there with XP. The long and short of it is, if users want to install any OS (as opposed to just using it) they'll probably have to learn something new, GUI or no.
.sig: file not found
[Sorry, repost. I had cookies turned off in this browser so my login didn't work. Please mod down the Anonymous Coward version as redundant, not this one; thanks.]
Progeny Linux comes to mind as a commercial Linux distribution company whose Linux product met with good reviews, but couldn't remain in business.
I guess I have Santa Claus to thank for the paychecks I've been getting every two weeks for the past 2 years plus, then.
Progeny did discontinue its Progeny Debian product, but we remain in business and continue to do interesting things, IMO.
Address-collecting spam robots don't know how to crack ROT13. Do you?
I disagree that GUI install is where it's at, unless you are teaching somebody who already has some experience using a desktop computer productively. To somebody who has never used a computer, avoiding the mouse is a good thing. Have you ever tried to teach a "newbie" over the age of 45 how to simulaneously click the proper button, while the cursor still pointing at the proper icon? I highly doubt it.
NCurses is great for basic installation... the focus doesn't change while you are trying to punch the enter key. Anybody who has used a computer before, even an utterly mouse dependant Mac OS 6.x user, can learn to use "TAB, up, down and enter" in under five minutes in a classroom setting. Try that multibutton mouse with someone whos hand-eye coordination has declined since the dawn of the PC era, even one-on-one. I dare you.
BTW, it seems likely you haven't used an NCURSES based Installation like Debian/Libranet. There are no "Icons" to be confused about, just highlighted words and phrases. As for the confusion over flow, explain the whole "top to bottom" flow that most civilizations active for the past two milleniums have been using, let them watch the highlight rotate around as they press the tab key (harmlessly) about twenty times, and they usually get the hang of it. Engourage them to read the phrases on the screen, and point out the significant items that they will need to actually look at. On a Debian derived system, this should almost always be the topmost item in the list, right in the upper-middle portion of the screen. You don't even have to clean out the grimy mouse ball which won't track on the filthy desk, which has no room because it is cluttered with papers and textbooks!
Maybe you aren't leveraging the average computer user's Win/Mac experience, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it is the perfect opportunity for some re-education... don't press ctrl-alt-del if something doesn't look right... don't necessarily shutdown or reboot multiple times daily... don't eject a floppy disk without warning the system... don't expect to run the cutesy little "dancing elves" attachments some friend sent from their Windows computer... I'm sure you have plenty you could append to this list as a computer teacher.