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Built-in Kitchen Computer?
shaun_gordon asks: "As a long-time geek and first-time home buyer, my wife are planning on a complete kitchen remodel. As part of the remodel, I want to put a computer into the kitchen to use for looking up recipes, controling the stereo, watching movies, etc. My only requirements are that it be Internet connected. My wife's requirements are that it be hidden. I am currently thinking of a flat screen that would fold down from under a cabinet and a keyboard in a drawer that pulls out. Has anyone had any experience installing something like this? Any recomendations on building or buying the integrated display? Anything else that I should consider?" Those looking into doing something like this may find a laptop with an 802.11-based wireless network adapter a better, and possibly cheaper, alternative for this kind of feature. Webpads might be another viable alternative, assuming they ever hit the consumer market at a worthwhile price. What suggestions might you have?
Buy an Audrey. That's what they're perfect for. Small form factor, fits in nice with the decor, networkable (so you can keep your main recipe db on your main computer and access it from the kitchen), wireless keyboard, touch screen with stylus, etc.
Durable, too-- my 3-year old hasn't broken ours yet!
And cheap. Also very important. Hunt around with liquidators or on ebay, should be well under $100 including the USB ethernet (unless the built-in modem suffices... modem-modem maybe, if you want to score extra geek points)
A.
http://www.iceboxllc.com/home.html
In the Star Trek evil Mirror Universe, virtuoso cellist Yo-Yo Ma is gangsta hiphop star DJ Yo Ma-Ma.
These things are small, they match the color of your fridge, they are very connective, and they are very easy to use. There are all sorts of programs for the Mac that control home appliances. Also, The iBooks are alot cheaper than the TiBooks.
--sounds fun to me. You didn't mention cost requirements, but I am always the cheap fix guy, which means used monitor and older but still decent box. If it was me, I would use a normal large screen crt monitor but build it into the wall someplace so the screen is flush. The box goes over yonder in a closet someplace, behind the monitor and within cable range. Scrounge a slide out tray from an old desk and install that under a cabinet someplace for the keyboard and mouse. As you are remodeling, go ahead and run cables instead of the wireless stuff. And here's a hint on scrounging neato old laminated walls, desks, kiosks, etc. If there's a exhibit/display outfit near you, they frequently scrap out old exhibits. typically they are built from good quality birch plywood that has been laminated. I once got a piece of a booth that I turned into a cooking island relatively easily. The varieties I am sure you have seen if you have attended any large shows, it's staggering and some of the stuff is quite beautiful. the wall panels are neat because they usually already have a plethora of ways to run cabling through them and your power feeds and merely bolt together. Check it out sometime, great way to get nice building materials with a geek flair to them. You might luck out and find a total wall solution that already has everything you need to install monitor displays and what not with the cabinets, etc, merely for hauling it off.
I'm not familiar with this at all, but my department just got a rack from dell for our cluster. It has a really nice pull out LCD and keyboard. The monitor can lay flat and the whole thing slide in when not in use. If you could install something like this at the right height, with a computer hidden in a cabinent underneath, it may work well.
Monitor image
It might be worthwhile to purchase an industrial keyboard, so that when you're following that pancake recipe on the screen and you spill your batter on the keyboard, everything wont go *poof*.
I'd imagine you'd have a few other requirements, too: 1. Water-resistant. Chances are it will get sprayed or splashed rather often. Would not need water-proof, but something not damaged by a spritz here and there. 2. Cleanable. You will want something that can be cleaned off, if the kids drop a jar of tomato sauce and splatters go all over the screen or keyboard. 3. Easily loadable with new info. If you want recipes then you will want the ability to load new ones. Some simple method for info transfer (802.11b, SD cards, etc) would be useful. 4. Not easily overheated. If you are making a roast in the kitchen in the 105 degree heat of summer, you want to make sure the processor does not get cooked. Might be best to avoid a processor like the P4 which is normally very hot anyway, or install robust heat dissipation. 5. Reasonably quiet. Not a big requirement if you are already using an electric mixer, I guess, but it would be nice to have it running but quiet while you are doing some reading and waiting for your confection to bake.
I would try to avoid the need for a keyboard. Unless your kitchen is huge, space will be at a premium so who wants to fill up an entire drawer with a keyboard. I would also be concerned about how practical it would be to use a keyboard with food covered hands. Finally, anything that you use in a kitchen needs to be easy to clean, both for cosmetic as well as sanitary reasons.
A standard keyboard just seems impractical in a kitchen environment.
How about a spin on the old Space Invaders screen idea? Mount the screen face down in an overhead cupboard, and place a hinged mirror underneath. You'd need to flip the image on screen in software, I don't know how you might do this, but it's a cheap & cheerful way to get round the "invisible" screen issue. You could even use the mirror to leave messages on.
Matt
The October 23, 2002 Wall Street Journal has a review of the new Internet-enabled refrigerator. Basically a laptop built into the door. Can be used with touch-screen or stylus. Only $8000.
Conceal a mic and speakers and mount a video camera that has a big round lens that glows red in the center. Then you can just ask questions to the air and have a recorded voice say, "I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave. You have only one egg and you are out of milk."
.. and your really nice options are super expensive and will probably require custom carpentry.
What we wound up doing is buying a older used laptop on eBay for about $400 and putting a wireless card in it that goes to my WAP11 in the office. We just leave the laptop on the counter all the time, with a piece of wood underneath it. The wood will prevent the countertop from discoloring from the heat of the laptop's CPU and it also raises the laptop off the counter a bit, so if something spills on the counter, the laptop isn't necessarily going to fry (although a direct hit would still take it out).
So there you have it. It works great for my wife and she uses it everyday. It's much less intrusive than one might think since a CRT isn't involved. I guess if you must have a truly hidden option, then you could look into an iMac.
Enjoy!
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Stumbling in the dark
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This is not exactly a new idea. There have been kitchen computers before, but they didn't really catch on. Look here
Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price
$2,995.00
-- ladies and gentlemen we are floating in space!
How many wives have you got?
Paul Lenhart writes words!
Non-geek traduction:
_They_ just bought a new house.
Beeing geek _he_ wants to put a computer inside the kitchen, too (beside the living room, the toilets and the bedchambers). He's trying to make us believe that the recipe part is important, but what he really wants is watching movies.
Beeing female, _she_ wants to organize the kitchen to her liking, and just do not give a damn about the computer: note the "hidden" requirement.
Marketing conclusion: your primary problem here is not technical. What you are into is WR (Wife Relationship), because the thing better have to be:
Technical conclusion: everything short of an armored version of this won't do. Equip it with a disposable keyboard, screen and mouse. Oh, and you'd better tailor the software you put there to please her, or that machine won't last long. A kitchen is indeed not a computer-friendly environmment !
[Pruneau
"My wife can use it to look up recipes"
This is one case where dead trees win every time.
Cookbook=extremely portable, relatively cheap, you can scribble notes on it, bookmark your place with a spoon, not affected by excess heat, won't crash, etc.
Unless you're actually going to get the computer to cook the damn food (which might work with todays' CPUs running so hot), it's a dumb idea, just like it was 30 years ago.
Before remodeling, try cooking w. a few recipes on a laptop, just to get the "feel" of it. Save yourself from wasting $$$ on remodeling twice.
IMHO, one of the biggest advantages to having a computer in the kitchen is tracking things like groceries. Get a computer that can handle a barcode device and then get a barcode scanner.
:)
Oh, and maybe put the computer CRT under thick glass so you could use it as a chopping board.
Whatever you do, try to make it accessible.
Uuhhh... so you want a computer built into the kitchen, or you want a kitchen built into the computer? The former is easy, the latter not quite there yet. Though, if you have a dual Pentium 4 Xeon or Athlon MP box, you could cook breakfast while fragging.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
If she was a true female geek she wouldn't cook. I am a geek/wife and all I need is a microwave, toaster oven and a husband to use them.
-- No Comment
A thin client with a touch screen is what I would do. Elo TouchSystems makes some nice touchscreens, and they provide Linux drivers. You can get their 12" LCD touchscreen for under $900, and you can avoid all the potential hazards of being dependent on a mouse in such a messy environment.
You'll need VGA and serial connections to make it work. Any random sub-$100 motherboard/CPU combo should cover your needs there, just grab the cheapest you can find on pricewatch. You'll also need an ethernet card that has a boot PROM socket.
I would mount the motherboard on stand-offs in the back of a cabinet, or maybe behind some (short) drawers. Put a wire cage over it so you don't accidentally shove some tin cans into it or something (ouch!), and it will have more than adequate ventilation.
An industrial keyboard is a good idea as well, I would look for a mini keyboard as opposed to a full sized one, since it would be easier to hide in a drawer. If you're mostly just browsing, you probably won't need the keyboard that much.
Of course, you'll also need a Linux box to act as a server. If you don't have one you'd have to add the cost of a hard drive, but I don't expect that would break the bank.
Anyway, that's how I would do it. The only thing visible would be the LCD touchscreen, and most of them are easy enough on the eyes for even my wife! It's bound to be more aesthetically pleasing than some of your regular kitchen appliances, anyway.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
The primary use of this computer will probably not be organizing recipies. It's one of those markets that look like they should be there...but aren't. Products have been offered time and again with little success.
Once you get past this, you'll have a lot more fun. The real value will be the non-kitchen related activities, as you mention, watching movies for example. You can do a lot make having a computer in the kitchen useful and expandable.
1) Include a cheap webcam and microphone. By building this in now, you won't have difficulty adding it when you want to do videoconferencing over the home network ("Honey, come out of the Server Dungeon, dinner's ready!)
2) Do everything you can to make it accessible to someone with a quarter-inch-thick layer of raw hamburger, bread crumbs, and egg clinging to their fingers. This is the biggest challenge. Either you invent a contactless way of typing and mousing, or find typing and pointing devices that can be easily cleaned. Touch-screen is out. I've seen too many monitors smeared with pizza and fried chicken grease, and that was just in an office. Touchpad devices do work if a thin layer of material is between the surface and the user's finger; you could use a piece of thin, tough white plastic (less than 1/16th inch) and seal it into one side of the keyboard tray. If it's waterproof, it can be wiped with a soapy rag like the rest of the kitchen.
3) Include a TV-and-radio-tuner capable video card. You've just knocked out two devices that you might one day want to have in the kitchen.
A few good ideas for using (and perhaps selling) the computer: Webcam in baby's room allows Mom to cook dinner and keep an eye on the kid. Grandma's also watching, and Mom is getting some input over AOL-IM on that favorite dish you keep asking for. The radio's on, or maybe MP3s are streaming from your server. And, just maybe, the computer holds a database of recipies.
I'm starting to envy you. Must...buy...house...make kitchen computer...
...
I'd still love to have a kitchen system that would combine a recipe database, grocery list, ingredients inventory, meal planning programs, etc. The individual components all exist, but I don't know of any project that has linked them all together. A console like that in the kitchen would be wonderful.
I'm thinking of doing the same thing when I move into my new house. I'm thinking of using a Cappuccino with a wireless keyboard and mouse (or a touchpad) and a 15 inch flatscreen. It's small enough that I'm thinking of mounting the cappuccino underneath the cabinet (upside down.) Since I'm going to run ethernet through the house, I'll just have a jack in the cabinet.
Try a networked stove or the internet enabled refrigerator. The refirgerator link also has an internet enabled air conditioner.
Yoda of Borg am I! Assimilated shall you be! Futile resistance is, hmm?
I can tell he has no kids in college !
One of the new lamp-looking ones might work. It would match the color of most of her other kitchen appliances, and if you really need to, you could figure out a way to mount that hemisphere under a cabinet on a swivel base - just flip the screen around and you'll be set. And getting a Mac in your kitchen will be far easier than getting a beige box/screen in there... something about Apple paying attention to asthetics....
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
I would cut a square into your counter top, and place a glass in the square big enough to see your monitor through. Use sealant on the glass so that it is water resistant. Place the computer in the cabinet directly beneath it. Replace your normal drawer to fit a keyboard/touchpad/ or mouse.
This solves a couple of issues with other solutions. First, you can use and replace all parts with standard equipment. It keeps the thing completely hidden unless you are looking for it... it looks nice. It is as cheap or expensive as you want... that's what I would do.
Make sure you get a special saw blade for your counter top as normal blades will chip it.
You can run your network cable underneath your cabinat and through your floor, if you have a basement/crawspace. Shouldn't be too hard to install power either... (my garbage disposal is broken... thus I have a spare power outlet...)
I think I'm going to build this.
This isn't the sig you are looking for... Carry on...
The virtually indestructible keyboard is super thin, can be mounted with thumbtacks, is water- and cookie-batter-proof (unless you place your thumbtacks poorly) and almost, as the name explys, indestructible.
I just spilled wonton soup on mine and it's still typing fine!
My kids played tug-o-war with it the first day I had it... still works, though admittedly the kids are all under 50 pounds US.
And, your wife can use it to open those tough pickle jar lids, too. No, I'm not kidding.
This has a flip-down screen, built-in ethernet, tv tuner, and DVD drive. OR, you could be 0ld-sk00l and use this
*everything* is Orwellian to cats.
For more info, check out the unofficial source of mini-itx goodness... Mini-ITX.com.
Of course, there is still the issue of keyboard, waterproofing, touchscreens, and all that. But getting a nice, cool-running, system that fits in a 7"x7" square is a good start.
-- null
Also, if you can hack this, set up a palm organizer or similar to act as a wireless remote. Sort of a rich-man's X10. (Even better, get an X10 array in your kitchen.) Don't ask me how this would be done, but having this handy would be optimal, especially if you're going to wire your kitchen to be controlled from the computer. (Perhaps future technology or a few hacks could explain how to control your stove's variable controls from your palm.)
And last, a low-tech idea - if you have the money, get a floor sink/drain. (See also the drip pan for the keyboard above.) An ideal assembly would have it recessed obscurely behind the cabinets, and accessible if you have to clean it - if the wife doesn't want a computer visible in the kitchen, she won't want something like this visible, as this is typically an industrial application. (I'd recommend directly underneath your kitchen sink - this way, the sink can be configured to drain into the floor sink. It's not unlike a typical restaurant or retail setup, so if you've ever worked for (say) McDonald's you probably know how this is done.) The rationale is simple: if you spill, rather than spending 20 minutes mopping it up with a sponge, all you have to do is spend a couple of minutes mopping it into the floor sink. Just make sure you pour water in it once every week to keep the odor down, or let the main sink/dishwasher/etc. just drain to it, but most importantly, keep it clean lest it backs up all over your new kitchen floor. (You can get commercial drain cleaners for this last bit, but you're looking at using a spoonful of drain cleaner once per week to keep it clear.)
This sig no verb.
Making trouble today for a better tomorrow...
I have a computer with a spare 17" monitor in the kitchen. It also has a decent sound card and an old tv tuner. The monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse don't take up that much room, and the keyboard (it is one of the thin rubber ones that is spill proof and can be rolled up) and mouse can be put on top of the monitor, freeing up counter top space.
:)
I use it all the time for watching tv or listening to music while I'm cooking, or to chat with some friends while waiting for the odd 5 minutes that some recieps call for. I don't use it to store recipes, but I do use it to look up recipes online. Besides, if you area true geek, you will have the recipes hosted on your own webserver
If it has to be hidden, build a cabnet where the monitor goes and have it able to open up to see the monitor when you are going to use it. Be careful of ventilation, but that woudl be the only concern I can think of, and that isn't important for LCD monitors.
Try looking for keyboards like this one: Go to CyberGuys and search for "water keyboard" ("foldable keyboard" doesn't work for some reason). These are completely flexible keyboards, 100% sealed and water-proof, and can be completely rolled up (except for the area directly under the right-hand keypad where the board is). I've actually messed around with these some, and the keys feel usable (sort of like some of the recent "quiet" keyboards).
I've thought of this as well, but my stickler is trying to find a mouse that is waterproof. It would probably be optical, but with a sealed lens cover, and a completely rubber topside with buttons underneath the rubber.
Be careful you don't end up like this poor user of Kitchen based computer-appliances.
The MIT prof who has this got it because he has bifocals, and was sick of tilting his head back to look at the screen. When he's not computing, he has a flat, uncluttered desktop.
Free advice (worth every penny): do *not* use up a cupboard for this. Destroy a kitchen table to hold it instead. You will never have enough cupboard space, nobody does.
Making trouble today for a better tomorrow...
How about the LG Internet Refrigerator?
Saw one locally and it looked pretty neat. I'm not in the market for one so I didn't pay attention to the price. I recall it also played MP3s and had a TV.
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I'm assuming that you'll want to put Linux on this machine.
If you do so, remember to shield the monitor with 1/4" Lexan.
Just in case, occasional flying plate or toaster you know.
http://www.lgappliances.com/cgi-bin/product.cgi?id =6
I was looking into this as well and was inclined towards the Audrey, but then found out about the Gateway Connected Touch Pad. You can mount it under a cabinet (designed for it), runs a flavor of Linux (Midory, from Transmeta),has an HPNA adapter, two USB ports, Touch Screen, and a wireless keyboard. These where pretty much all the things I was looking for. You may not have an issue with wiring, but it was convenient for me to use the existing phone line for broadband access. Having Linux in th box was a big plus for me too; Is there any other OS? : )
Edmund
The problems with a kitchen computer are numerous:
- Space - No one wants to give up counter space for a computer, and besides it would be a pain to lean over (you don't sit down very much in the kitchen).
- Cleanliness - a keyboard and mouse would be ruined in short order.
- Noise - maybe a bit of a minor issue, but it's always better to have less noise.
I always thought the following would be cool:
Hardware
- Motherboard - a mini-ITX motherboard would be perfect (low energy, possible fanless operation, tiny, integrated everything).
- Enclosure - a slim box that would mount sideways, screwed to the side inside of one of the upper cabinets.
- Cooling - if heat is a issue, a plenum could run on the inside of the cabinet from holes on the bottom of the cabinet through the enclosure to the ceiling. A fan to draw air through (as well as the power supply, ethernet, etc.) would all be up out of sight
- Screen - an LCD panel with touch-like screen, mounted portrait layout, right on the cabinet door (so that it is right at eye level, and out of reach of the small kids).
- Pen - whether it is a true touch screen (like a PDA) or a wired light pen, I don't know, but this would be the primary input device.
- Speakers & microphone - small, slim models also mounted into the cabinet door.
- USB/Firewire connections - for quick upload & download to/from a PDA, camera, memory keychain, etc.
- another PC - running as a server.
Note that I don't want a hard drive, keyboard, or mouse. The most work in this would be physically installing the screen & speakers in the door so it looks good and the wires flex properly with the door swing, and with designing the motherboard enclosure and plenum. Oh, and wiring everything through the ceiling.
Software
- X-terminal setup - this machine would be boot-on-LAN, and all storage would be over Ethernet - run as much as possible on the server end.
- Handwriting recognition - since the machine would never be used for entering in large amounts of data (I don't code while cooking), there is no need for a keyboard (most entry would be on the server, and this would mostly be a "retrieval" device) - but there should be a handwriting code for when you need to enter in text, maybe like Palm's graffiti.
- Applications - I want this machine to do the following functions
- Organizer - standard PDA stuff (calendar, address, to-do, notes, calculator, etc.)
- Recipe database - duh! (and actually useful, given the screen's location)
- Message centre - retrieve both voice and email messages
- "Thumbtack" board - leave notes for others in the house (vocal or written)
- Browser - access to the Web and local files
- Live Broadcast - you could access TV, radio, etc. with server-based tuners
- Stored Entertainment - play back mp3, divx, etc.
No word processing, spreadsheets, photo editing, games, etc. here! Just stuff that makes sense in the kitchen (communication, passive information and entertainment).
Even if all the pieces were in place for doing everything I want here, there would be a lot of work to build an interface that would pull it all together nicely. All apps would be set up for as little data entry as possible (tapping on buttons should be the main interaction).
Of course, all this is way beyond my abilities, time, and cash flow to actually do. But that's my dream kitchen machine.
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
They're coming out with a new wireless enabled Tablet PC that would be more or less perfect for this.
It's got a touchscreen making the keyboard and mouse completely uneccesary, and has an extremely complementary form factor.
One of the requirements was the ability to search for recipes. Internet's always an option, but is there anything similar to Meal Master out there for Linux? I searched around Freshmeat, Sourceforge, Google, and the Debian package database, and most of what's available are PHP/SQL web-based solutions. I'm setting up a 486 laptop for my wife to enter recipes, and I was hoping for a console-based app instead of having to run Apache, SQL, and all that. Any suggestions?
Throw those thin clients right out and use an x terminal. The touch functions are built right into X and they work flawlessly. Every program will be a touch-driven program without the writer of the program even knowing that it is. That's how much you know - nothing. And 15" LCD touchscreens are under $600.
You will NOT need an ethernet card with a boot PROM socket if you buy one of the new TINY mini-ITX motherboards with bootable network support in the bios, plus disc on chip for instant on.
You would put this in a TINY case about an inch and a half thick, by 7 inches by 6 inches. and a point of sale keyboard will be just what you want, not an industrial keyboard.
And the Linux box will not be a server; it will be the client application host. The x terminal is called the server. And you don't need a hard drive with disk on chip, plus compact flash.
Plus you would need some software. Search google for linux touchscreen software and you'll find that. A thin client requires Windows, by the way. Thin client is a Microsoft term for an x terminal that they can charge you the cost of a Windows license for.
Due to dietary constraints (my family has Celiac disease, so we can't eat wheat, barley, rye, oats, or any derivatives thereof), my family has to make most of our own food. Since I'm the resident geek, I dug through my spartan computer stockpile and came up with a Compaq Concerto laptop. It's 486/33MHz, and it's unique in the fact that it was intended to be a tablet-type computer. The guts are behind the 256 greyscale 640x480 screen, and the keyboard is loosely hinged and can even be removed (when you remove it, you get another PS/2 port). The screen/guts section is held up by a sort of a stand that folds out. The screen is a inductive (I think that's the right term, it's not resistive) touch screen that needs a pen I don't have, but it's got a spare PS/2 port for a handy mouse. With a floppy drive, 4 (or 8, maybe) megs of memory, 300 megabyte-ish hard drive, and 2 PCMCIA slots, it's a rather slick piece of retro computing.
:-)
For software, I've got Windows 95a (it was hard enough to install that over floppies, and I don't have a linux compatible PCMCIA network card), and AbiWord for recipes. No fancy databases here, just a folder for the recipe files, and a naming convention for the files themselves. (Food category, food name. Ex: Pizza, thin crust. or Cake, Mayonaisse chocolate).
That little computer is the most complemented and congratulated computer in my house, and we have no lack of them. After making a recipe, just click the little switch to flip it to a quick standby, fold the keyboard up, and it's nearly footprint-free, due to it's easel type stand.
I say, think about what you want it to go, and don't over-estimate it. Do you really need it to be a big whiz-bang system? Or, would a simple little older computer like this one work better? (It could go online, over a network card. Phoenix, a web browser project related to Mozilla, would probably work. (Don't quote me on that, haven't tried, though I use Phoenix for my day-to-day browsing)
br? In summary, don't overestimate your needs, and don't be afraid to look for older, but viable, solutions. Plus, if you find a Compaq Concerto, either use it, or give it to me.
I recognize people by their sigs. Is that a bad thing?
I got bored of reading the mindless comments of people who know nothin about any of this. First of all i suppose you'd like to keep it cheap, sure, we all do. And your a geek so you wanna do it yourself, not buy some tablet. thats not enough, not for me at least. Everyone is looking for the best input, and for a kitchen you dont want a mouse at all. Touchscreens are waay too expensive. Heres the answer: http://www.fingerworks.com/mini_product.html (i dont do links) you have a miniture keyboard that is completely sealed along the top and it does mouse functions, ALL WITH ONE HAND. booya. and for a screen, just get a cheap TFT LCD screen from ebay and check out http://earthlcd.com/controllers.htm to get a controller to interface it with your regular monitor connection. Slap that lcd under some glass and you got yourself a nice little viewing thingy. that little keyboard could be built into a wall surface easily or in some slidy dohicky. Then use a very quiet p3 or k6-2 system built into your cupboards. then you have the parallel port also to do some nifty interfacing and controlling with.