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Using MAC Address to Uniquely Identify Computers

An anonymous reader writes "One of Australia's gaming networks, GamesArena has recently imposed a third party program required to access their gaming servers. One of it's features is that it records your NIC's MAC address to identify your computer, and subsequently in future, ban you if you cheat/break the rules etc. The response from players is mixed. It is not open source software, nor is it optional to install. "Install it or find another server to play on". Question remains, is it going too far?" Definitely not- unfortunately it won't work since MACs are changable.

94 of 561 comments (clear)

  1. buy a new network card by Brian+Boitano · · Score: 5, Insightful

    not banned anymore :D

    --
    What would Brian Boitano do?
    1. Re:buy a new network card by shird · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why bother? The MAC address is usually stored in flash eprom. Besides, whats to stop you from writing your own rogue '3rd party' program which is reverese engineered from the original, only reports a random MAC address.

      Implementing security/restrictions client side doesnt work. period.

      --
      I.O.U One Sig.
    2. Re:buy a new network card by Crewd · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or just change it in your registry settings (windows only of course), similar options exist for *nix...

      http://www.ntfaq.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleI D= 23256

    3. Re:buy a new network card by quigonn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And usually, the network card's MAC address is stored in RAM, to make it easily accessible by the different drivers that need it (e.g. Ethernet). This makes it changeable with e.g. Linux's ifconfig:

      ifconfig eth0 down
      ifconfig eth0 hw ether DE:AD:BE:EF:BA:BE
      ifconfig eth0 up

      --
      A monkey is doing the real work for me.
    4. Re:buy a new network card by shird · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, now that I think about it more -- These cable companies (Telstra , optus) force you to use their cable modems, which they have tight control over. If everyone using these servers are using it through these modems, which have their own MAC, they could ban based on this MAC address because it would be sent to them directly via ethernet. - this wouldnt require a client side program however, so probably isn't what theyre doing.

      --
      I.O.U One Sig.
    5. Re:buy a new network card by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Congratulations, you just violated the DMCA.

      The MAC address checker is a security measure, and you just published information on how to circumvent it.

    6. Re:buy a new network card by Unkle · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Why bother? The MAC address is usually stored in flash eprom. Besides, whats to stop you from writing your own rogue '3rd party' program which is reverese engineered from the original, only reports a random MAC address. Implementing security/restrictions client side doesnt work. period.

      Not everybody knows how/has the ability to change the MAC address of their NIC. Also, three things stop people from writing that rogue program-Time, Skill (in both programming and reverse engineering), and Desire. Not being a huge online gamer I cannot say with 100% confidence, but I doubt that the majority of gamers using this system want to cheat.

      As for the statement that client side security doesn't work, well that isn't completely true. No, this system is not foolproof as I understand it, but that does not mean that there is absolutely no way this could work 90% of the time, which for a gaming network is not that bad. Sure, for the slashdot crowd, this might be easy to crack, but joe-average on the street probably doesn't have a clue what a MAC address is (or they think they don't have one because they use Windows).

      --
      Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vain.
    7. Re:buy a new network card by Znork · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure it will work 90% of the time. For the 90% that dont cheat, that is.

      The average Cheater Joe off the street will definitely know exactly how to change it. Which makes the whole exercise pointless.

      Heck, client side security with no passwords and disks shared to the world works great 90% of the time. Unfortunately it isnt the 90% that is the problem. It's the rest. And for the rest, repeat after me, client-side security will never ever ever work. If you dont have physical control over a computer you cannot trust anything it tells you.

  2. Oh this will be pissing people off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    1) Get your mac adress banned
    2) Sell Network Card
    3) Some one buys new card
    4) They are banned
    There will be plenty of second hand NICS for sale becuase of this. its a 1 2 3 profit plan.

    1. Re:Oh this will be pissing people off by SkankhodBeeblebrox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who the heck is going to buy a used network card?? You can pick up a realtek 8139x based card for $10 CDN retail, and probably for close to the price of a pack of gum online ;)

  3. Re:Changable? by anothermortal · · Score: 4, Informative

    Linksys routers (and otherS) allow you to "clone" the MAC address. Its very useful if your cable company has registered the MAC address of the NIC they gave you. Thus, with filtering software, any other NIC won't connect....unless you "clone" it :)

  4. Ban your Enemies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's all too easy. Figure out their IP, get their MAC, put it on your router, get banned, change your MAC back, enjoy your new unopposed domination.

    1. Re:Ban your Enemies by Entrope · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That is a fine plan -- assuming you can find their MAC address. I certainly hope the server-side software is not lame enough to advertise it to all users. Many do not even show clients' IP addresses. "Vanilla" TCP/IP does not have any way to give away the lower-level addresses past the first IP router; this includes the MAC address of some guy with whom you have a TCP session.

    2. Re:Ban your Enemies by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 5, Informative

      Microsoft machines will tell you their MAC when you do a NBTSTAT on them. At least one ISP I know of blocks NetBIOS traffic because of uncontrolled file sharing, but I don't know how common that is.

      Personal firewall software should capture the request or block it too, so there are a few ways to thwart the method.

      Of course you still need the IP address, but that's a little easier to find. You could even do a little social engineering to get it... "Hey check out my website dedicated to your demise!"

      As for changing your MAC, what if the third party program doesn't read the MAC from the network stack, but pulls it from the driver? i.e. using the same calls the Network stack uses to get it in the first place?

    3. Re:Ban your Enemies by toast0 · · Score: 3, Informative

      From the placement of the registry key to change the mac in windows... i imagine the driver reports the new mac address to all callers.

    4. Re:Ban your Enemies by Alsee · · Score: 5, Informative

      Of course you still need the IP address, but that's a little easier to find. You could even do a little social engineering to get it...

      No need for social engineering. Anytime you play a game with someone you create an internet connection, that means your machine has to know their IP address. On Win98 (and probably all MS OS's) just open a dos window and type NETSTAT to see the text version of their address (userID.AOL.COM), or NETSTAT -N to see the dotted IP address (123.45.67.89).

      Lots of people hesitate to tell you their IP address, thinking it is some big secret. It's rather amusing to get into a game with them and say "Your IP address is 123.45.67.89, your ISP is RoadRunner, and you are in Southern California, right near the coast".

      How do I do the last part, naming their location? Just type their IP address into visualroute. (Requires Java) One end of the line is fixed at the visualroute server, the line shows the physical location of every server along the route to the target. You can click the map to zoom in.

      It is interesting to note that it is not uncommon for servers locations to be completely different from the country code in the address. For example www.indymedia.org.il (Isreal country code) is actually hosed in Chiago USA. Often it is simply more convient getting content hosted on major US server farms, but sometimes it could be relevant for legal reasons, or it could even be intentionally missleading.

      P.S.
      I used www.indymedia.org.il as an example because it's the only example I remember off hand. I recall that one becase indymedia is anti-isreal, and I suspect the Isreal country code may be intentionally missleading. The indymedia "news" sites are certainly independant, but in my oppinion extremely biased and unreliable. It is a good source for certain stories the "major media" may have neglected, but double check any information you get there. The writing often drops to the level of pure propaganda.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    5. Re:Ban your Enemies by ProfessorPuke · · Score: 3
      Anytime you play a game with someone you create an internet connection, that means your machine has to know their IP address.


      Untrue. Some games, like Warcraft3, use a grid topology (each player connects to each other), so you do know their IP addresses. But many other popular games like HalfLife/Counterstrike are star topologies, where each player only connects to the central server. In those cases netstat can't show you their IP addresses.


      (Sometimes the developers of star topology games create an ingame option to reveal other player's IPs, but they usually drop off the last one or two octets.)


      In the old days of internet Quake, it wasn't unheard of for an annoying player to suffer a PingOfDeath or plain old overload DOS.

  5. Ban the IP. by lennywood1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Too many violations from that IP range? Ban the /24 it came from. Send back a "Too many cheaters from your ISP" error. MACs are too easily changed, but then again, so are IP's. But considering most gamers have DSL with a static IP, an IP ban is a much better option.

    1. Re:Ban the IP. by micromoog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And ban the ~252 other potential hosts on that network?

  6. Re:Changable? by snookerdoodle · · Score: 5, Funny

    Uh, that might actually BE the point - anyone with $10 for a new NIC can change their MAC address, no brains required...

    If you have brains, you can save $10... ;-)

    Mark

  7. Re:Shh... by MichaelDelving · · Score: 3, Funny

    Don't worry, only the CHEATERS will go to the trouble to change their MAC address or swap out network cards. The rest of the non-cheating gamers won't go to the trouble to circumvent the system.

  8. OMG OMG G4/\/\354R3|\|4 0\/\/5 J00! by pumkinut · · Score: 4, Funny

    As if people whining on CounterStrike weren't bad enough, now we have to listing to 14 year olds complain about having to buy a new NIC every time they cheat online.

    --
    "It's hard to be a man when there's a gun in your hand"
  9. This will work for a while... by MagicFab · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...until the MAC address generators have gone through all the "MAC-space" of possible addresses...

    Wireless APs like Linksys' already come with a web admin that lets you specify *any* MAC address, apparently to please some cable/adsl providers that measure traffic/authenticate (partly) based on this.

    Why not provide a public key server and ask people to submit they public OpenPGP key, signe by P. Zimmermann himself ? Get your identity trusted by Z. or go play somewhere else... After all, this seems to imply they want "real" players!

    --
    Notepad specialist & FAT administrator, group training available
  10. Re:Changable? by DJPenguin · · Score: 3, Informative

    ifconfig eth0 hw ether xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx

  11. It's even simpler.. by XaXXon · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's really no need to change your MAC address.

    They're violating the simple rule about never trusting the client. All you have to do is modify this third-party program to have it spit out a random MAC address each time and *poof* the system is worthless. You don't even have to change your MAC address. And since MAC addresses are only used at the Ethernet level, not at the [TCP|UDP]/IP level, it doesn't matter that the server thinks your MAC address is different than it is.

  12. MAC Adress and Cable Modems by bildstorm · · Score: 5, Informative

    They've been trying this crap for years with cable modems. Until I got a router, I used to use two different machines, each with the same MAC address installed. Worked out great. It's easy to change, too. It's also let me on at friends' offices, where access is MAC controlled. We log on a machine, write down the address, shut it down, boot mine up, change the address, and log on.

    Who does it stop? Honest people.

    Who won't it stop? The same people hacking their games in the first place.

    --
    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. - G.B. Shaw
    1. Re:MAC Adress and Cable Modems by reallocate · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's what happens here. If my provider doesn't see the MAC address of their card, the connection drops.

      Anyway, this little fuss is just about people who think that everyone has a right to be on every network, anywhere. It's as if they believe that people every network is a public, free, resource.,

      --
      -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    2. Re:MAC Adress and Cable Modems by isorox · · Score: 3, Funny


      We log on a machine, write down the address, shut it down, boot mine up, change the address, and log on.

      Who does it stop? Honest people.


      I guess you're not honest then :)

  13. ifconfig by Crewd · · Score: 4, Informative

    ifconfig eth0 hw ether aa:dd:rr:ee:ss

  14. Open source by tsa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of course it's not open source; the last thing they want is users making changes to this program. Then it would be of no use to them.

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Open source by sfe_software · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is off-topic, but I just have to reply to this:

      None of this would be necessary if we didn't have social-engineering black-hat hackers who break every attempt at default security just for kicks. Palladium (or something else) is coming, and I blame any bad side effects I suffer on hackers, not MS.

      Tell me you are kidding. Please.

      Palladium is simply rediculous. There is a much better solution:

      1) Write more secure software. Dont' lock my PC up because you can't produce solid, tested code that's not full of holes.

      2) Educate users. If you let someone you didn't know work on your car, and they broke something major, who is at fault? Should GM ship cars with the hood welded shut?

      3) Profit!

      Okay, bad pun, but seriously... Palladium is just a bad, bad idea. What happens when (not if) someone breaks it? Then what?

      Oh, right, hide behind more DMCA-like laws. No need to make it unbreakable, when you can just make it illegal to break (think CSS).

      Microsoft seems to be acting like the RIAA. The RIAA is IMO an unnecessary middle-man, who's usefullness is proving to be less and less. So they lobby to get laws passed in order to survive. MS can't write secure software, so they want to lock us out of the PC, making it a (worse) crime to exploit it. Telco's are using old technology and want the government to bail them out.

      Well guess what? If a company can't survive, or a business model proves to be no longer viable, then you lose. It isn't the government's (and thus the taxpayers') responsibility to keep a dead idea going for the benefit of some corporation.

      Ah, but I'm rambling again... *sigh* I just get so frustrated with the way things are going these days (which has gotten much worse since 9/11)... my girlfriend thinks I'm a paranoid conspiracy theorist... I'm simply making observations.

      --
      NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
  15. Re:Shh... by phil+reed · · Score: 5, Informative
    we could have some major routing issues should people choose the same MAC addresses.

    Uh, no you won't. The only time MAC addresses make a difference is in ARP packets, and the only place MAC addresses make a difference is on your local LAN segment. The fact that two people in different cities have the same MAC address matters not a whit to the routers between them.

    --

    ...phil
    "For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
  16. Hah! Won't work for me! by Gambit+Thirty-Two · · Score: 4, Funny

    I keep a fresh supply of token ring cards handy to swap out if the need arrises.

    And im not joking:
    http://gambit32.org/albums/other/aag.jpg

  17. Maybe not such a bad thing.... by isa-kuruption · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "Install it or find another server to play on". Question remains, is it going too far?"

    No, it's not going too far. The game server admins can run the server however they choose fit. If you don't like the rules, don't use the server!

    Definitely not- unfortunately it won't work since MACs are changable.

    However, the majority of people don't know how to reset their MAC addresses. Also, as I believe to be true, some broadband providers specifically use MAC addresses to verify access. For instance, my Comcast cable modem does everything by MAC, so if I change my NIC in my machine, I need to power off/on the cable modem in order to get back through to the Internet. Although this is sort of a minor issue, some other ISPs may be more strict about MAC changes.

    Overall, the admins figure they will cut out 99% of the hacking attempts as people would just go elsewhere, or once they did cheat, just wouldn't know how to change their MAC.

    1. Re:Maybe not such a bad thing.... by kris · · Score: 5, Insightful

      However, the majority of people don't know how to reset their MAC addresses.

      Welcome to the digital age, where knowledge can be cristallized into programs, and where the majority of people will soon be able to reenable their access to the gaming server by running some magic program without ever knowing what a MAC address is.

      Kristian

  18. Modems by DJPenguin · · Score: 5, Funny

    What happens if you are logged in via dial-up? Will it ban the MAC address of the box at the ISP that you're dialed in to? :)

    1. Re:Modems by XaXXon · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, of course not. This is just a client side program that tries to grab your MAC address and send it along with handshaking data when the connection is established. The server can't actually see you MAC address in the data you send.

      When you're dialed up it won't be able to find a MAC address. They could try and use something else unique, like your intel number on p3's and higher (sorry, forgot the actual name), or they could hash together a bunch of information from your bios and stuff.

      There's no way it could get any information off the server you're dialed into. Hell, they may not even be running ethernet (MAC addresses are how ethernet addresses packets. It's not used by TCP/IP or UDP/IP)

  19. NAT routers by MartinB · · Score: 5, Interesting

    NAT routers such as the Linksys range allow you to specify the MAC address from their web-based setup - ideal if your broadband provider insists on you registering (and limiting the number of) MAC addresses of all the machines going to connect.

    I wonder what they'll do when they discover several simultaneous connections to the server (and sessions) from the same MAC?

    --

    The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

  20. IPv6 == MAC address by Bookwyrm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does not the current IPv6 address allocation standard specify using your MAC address as the suffix portion of the IPv6 address? This is merely a taste of things to come if/when IPv6 becomes widely deployed, when your very IPv6 address can uniquely identify the hardware you are on (unless you use IPv6 NAT, of course.)

    And yes, presently, you can probably change the MAC address of your system. However, once software vendors and DRM technologies and other things start locking themselves to your computer hardware, I suspect changing the MAC address would cause problems. The only thing this game company has to do is when the game is installed is to lock the licence to the present MAC address so it will not run with a changed IP address without a new licence.

    1. Re:IPv6 == MAC address by iainf · · Score: 3, Informative
      Does not the current IPv6 address allocation standard specify using your MAC address as the suffix portion of the IPv6 address?

      Not quite:
      It should be noted that the 128-bit address space is divided into three logical parts, with the usage of each component managed differently. The rightmost 64 bits, the Interface Identifier [RFC2373], will often be a globally-unique IEEE identifier (e.g., mac address). Although an "inefficient" way to use the Interface Identifier field from the perspective of maximizing the number of addressable nodes, the numbering scheme was explicitly chosen to simplify Stateless Address Autoconfiguration [RFC2462].

      (my emphasis) From ripe-246 - http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html

  21. ...it's really not that hard... by ph0rman · · Score: 5, Informative

    here's how to change it for nt/2000
    windows2000faq
    -advanced tab in adapter properties

    linux
    eepro100 list
    -ifconfig eth0 hwaddr ether 00:11:22:33:44:55

    this is exactly why microsoft's registration process uses a lot more than just the mac address.

    1. Re:...it's really not that hard... by ntp · · Score: 3, Informative

      Bzzzzt wrong. Read the man page. It's:

      ifconfig eth0 hw ether 00:11:22:33:44:55

      --
      I control the time!
  22. hmmm by awing0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nope, MAC addresses won't work. You'd have to have a unique number that's hard coded into something expensive. The Pentium III's CPUID feature would work. However, as much as I hate cheaters in my favorite games, I don't like an ID number open to abuse.

    Quake III has recently enabled anti-cheat software called Punk Buster. It does a ban via your Quake III CD-Key, so you can't play on any Punk Buster enabled servers if you get banned. But with the game under $20 at BestBuy, I'm not sure if it will stop many of the problems.

    --
    Cthulhu Saves.
  23. Re:Shh... by phil+reed · · Score: 5, Informative
    I was referring to people on the same segment. Hardcore gamers in localities generally use the same provider to minimize latency issues. That is when the issue would crop up.

    But if you're on the same segment, then routing is not an issue.

    As noted, the answer is trivial: generate random MAC addresses. They are 6 bytes long - plenty of room for everyone to tumble the address every day and still not collide.

    --

    ...phil
    "For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
  24. NICs are sometimes shipped with duplicate MACs by KeithH · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When I was involved with the initial deployment of DSL service in Canada, our customer ran into an interesting problem: many of the low-cost NICs that they shipped with the DSL modem had the same MAC.

    Under most circumstances, this is seldom an issue since the NICs aren't likely to be deployed on the same network segment. However, when the MAC is used for other tracking services (in this case, a layer-2 NAT), you have a problem.

    And of course, as others have said, most NICs permit the factory MAC to be overridden.

    1. Re:NICs are sometimes shipped with duplicate MACs by shippo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Was this an NE2000 clone by any chance?

      Due to quirky differences between the NE1000 and NE2000 cards, it was possible for the card to present an incorrect MAC address which would be identical across all cards if either the driver wasn't written correctly or the specification badly cloned.

      I saw this problem myself many years ago on a Banyan network. Updated card drivers resolved this.

  25. OSS or not OSS, that is apparently not the Q here! by e8johan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "The response from players is mixed. It is not open source software, nor is it optional to install."

    Neither is windows for playing many of todays top-selling titles. I want an outcry here but I don't see it. Is it because software not being open source does not matter to the average user or is it because people are too ignorant to care? It is funny to see an outcry when a company tries to stop actual cheating which spoils the game for all, instead of putting energy where it matters.

  26. Re:Nastyhunting will get a little easier... by davidstrauss · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's called Windows activation.

  27. out of line! by mary_will_grow · · Score: 5, Funny

    >"...Question remains, is it going too far?" Definitely not-

    Thanks for answering that one for us. Without your moral framework we would be lost in the chaotic hell of self determination.

    --
    Why stick up for big business?
  28. As Stupid as Gun Control by limekiller4 · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is just as silly as gun control because it makes the assumption that you can pass "laws" that will stop people that, by their very definition, do not obey laws!

    Here, they're saying "we're going to introduce a software "lock" that will prevent you from cheating." Great. So the people who want to cheat in the game are going to (say it with me now) ...cheat the protection.

    Are the people who wrote this bit of client-side [*cough*] security really under the impression that MAC addresses are immutable? Perhaps they know damned well it isn't but was kinda hoping that nobody would tell their client? This has the earmark of an initiative by some dip in a suit who never bothered to consult a single knowledgable, technical person.

    Whatever. It might take two days before a patch/spoofer is readily available for the habitual cheaters. All it has to do is spit out a fake MAC address when queried.

    --
    My .02,
    Limekiller
  29. Re:How is that possible? by mikeselectricstuff · · Score: 3, Informative
    The MAC address is almost always stored in a little serial EEPROM (usually a 93C46) on the card. These are a doddle to reprogram - either with a general-purpose eeprom programmer, or with some simple software which talks to the chip via a simple cable off the printer port - I'm sure there's some software out there to do it (try here)

    All the NICs I've looked store the MAC in a very obvious format in the chip, whithout any pesky checksums to fix up - I recently used this method to simplify swapping 2 PCs off one cable modem.

    As the NIC controller chip can read from the eeprom, chances are it can also be made to write to it as well, so it's probably possible to write a program to change the MAC without any hardware twiddling - a read of the chip;s data sheet would probably show you how.

  30. Nothing new by quantax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This has been going on for a while, though without MAC addresses, a much simpler system. Most multiplayer games thesedays come with a CD-Key thats authenticated by a central server whenever you play a game. The CDkey usually has a unique ID strapped to it that is publically accessible by admins or players. You ban the ID, they cannot connect to the game without changing their CDkey (which means either buying a new copy or finding another cdkey that works online, neither are 'easy'). If MAC addresses can be changed, then as soon as a couple of like-minded gamers find out about that, you can count on their being a guide on how to do it for gamers eventually. The best way handle this is on both a MAC, and CDkey-ID level. Ban their MAC, and ban their ID, that will stop all but the most determined/knowledgable.

    --
    "What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
    1. Re:Nothing new by quantax · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oh yea, I should mention that if you are going to ban a player, whether by IP, CDkey-ID, or MAC address, you are banning them. A ban is a ban; if your goal is to keep that player off the server, how is that 'going too far'? One does not 'kinda' ban someone, you either do or don't bother at all. Its the same concept as an IRC channel: there are multiple ways to ban someone, using different nick/user/host options. Each of these has different properties, but in the end they are all doing the same thing, which is stopping the banned person(s) from joining the channel. If you are going to do something, you might as well do it to completion.

      --
      "What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
  31. What of windows? by moogla · · Score: 5, Informative

    Many ethernet drivers with this capability have an option for just this. For example, if you have a 3c918, click "configure" under network properties in win2k for that adapter. Select the "advanced" tab. On the left, you'll have an option called "network address" that's normally set to "Not Present". Change it to a specified value, and type in "DEADBEEFBABE" or whatever MAC address you want.

    Bingo.

    --
    Black holes are where the Matrix raised SIGFPE
    1. Re:What of windows? by tom.allender · · Score: 5, Funny

      If everyone uses DEADBEEFBABE that will create another problem...

    2. Re:What of windows? by Keith_Beef · · Score: 3, Funny

      I prefer to
      FEEDBABEBEEF

  32. Details by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The MAC is 48 bits, split in two, don't remember how many bits each part. One part is the manufacturer id, the other is the specific card, such as a sequential serial number. MACs are assigned when built, non-changeable, a truly unique card id.

    However, you can tell the OS to report a different MAC. That's what "changing your MAC" means, it doesn't actually change the MAC on the card, but it changes what the OS reports.

    This is also a good example of why Palladium and trusted computing can't have just any old OS running on a computer. DRM requires complete control, not just a little bit of special software.

    1. Re:Details by afidel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In theory you are correct. In practice I have seen entire batches of $5 cards come in from some taiwainese manufacturer with the same MAC address. MAC's are also almost always changable. I can't think of the last time I had a card with a non changable MAC (it was probably a tokenring adapter) but even if it is non changable on the card it can most likely be changed through software. I believe that some linux network drivers build the entire frame in software so changing the MAC in software would change the actual ethernet fram and hence it is just the same as if you have changed it in hardware.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  33. Re:Shh... by mary_will_grow · · Score: 3, Funny

    SHHH! Dont tell people that deadbolt locks made by manufacturer X have a flaw that allows anyone to gain entry into a house that uses them!! If we let people know that their houses are not adequately locked, then break-ins will be more common!! And we'll have to FIX the locks!!! and make them actually work!!!
    SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

    --
    Why stick up for big business?
  34. Cheaters aren't a problem in Multiplayer Action. by Qbertino · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's solid code of honor amongst Clans not to cheat. Anybody as dedicated to playing online action games would render his pasttime pointless by cheating. And if anyone found out you've cheated your way into Ladder position you'd get an extremely hard time (on and offline).

    And when you're playing on a public server, cheaters are easyly identified by playing like crap and either scoring immediate kills once they actually *do* manage to hit or by simply not throwing the towel no matter how many times you flak them at point-blank. Both area mostly less than minor drags to a skilled player and have a somewhat funny aspect to it.

    I've seen entire matches in UT (1st) where cheaters we're just plain ignored because of the simply fact their skill level (not trained by playing under real conditions) rendered them something more like 'moving obstacles' rather than actuall participants.
    Anyhow, some one using more subtle cheats, such as see-through textures or so, can be anoying. Then on the other hand, if you're that good to know for shure that someone is using such a cheat, you'll be playing clan games most of the time anyway. And I haven't met a single Clan player cheating yet. At least none of mentionable Clans.

    BTW: I once had a cheater on my team in a pub UT CTF match. I switched sides and telefragged him 'til he gave up and disconnected. That was fun. :-)

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  35. Re:Hurrumph by shird · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your average person who cares that it's recorded can change it easily, and your average 12 year old cheating 5||21p7 |1DD13 probably won't even know why he got banned...

    Except the reason people get banned is for using cheats etc, which are distributed in the same way as information on how to change your MAC.

    The first thing someone will do when they are banned is do a search on google for "telstra banned game unban" or something, and get hundreds of hits on how to get around it.

    --
    I.O.U One Sig.
  36. Re:How is that possible? by jridley · · Score: 3, Informative

    I thought they the MAC address was burned in to the chips themselves

    It is stored on a PROM on the card. And the driver reads it, and stores it in computer memory. Then you go into the driver settings and override it, assuming the driver allows that; it's up to the driver.

    The NIC never sends its MAC out on its own. The MAC is incorporated into the packet by the driver. The driver can send whatever the hell it wants to for the MAC address.

    In Windows the changeablility of the MAC address depends on your driver. On my Dell laptop it's as easy as going into the NIC's properties and changing the number. On my desktop here at work I don't see an obvious way to do it.

    Under Linux I think it's just ifconfig with some options.

  37. Re:And after a firewall ? by Xentax · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Given the description, it will send the one of the PC running this 3rd party program -- which means the PC you're playing/working from.

    Basically, they know how easy it is to change or mask IP addresses, and how (particularly for dialup users), banning an IP can punish a lot more people than just the original offender.

    So, in the mind of some idiot who failed his CSC networking class before he went to business school, he figured "Hey, MAC addresses are unique! Let's grab that, and ban based on that!"

    Just like back then, he didn't do his homework. As others have pointed out:
    1) These days, altering your MAC address at run-time is easy, either on your machine or at a router (which is a common component of broadband connections these days)
    2) Hackers will have little trouble cracking this "closed source" program, so they can make it emit any or a random MAC address, rather than the machine's actual MAC address. This will not affect connectivity, since its use in this context has nothing to do with the actual connection to the server.
    3) If all else fails, network cards are dirt cheap; cheaters/griefers that can't manage #1 or #2 will just buy another network card.

    Basically, this "solution" will only keep out the stupidest and poorest grief players. Smart cheaters won't be affected; smart NON-cheaters will probably hack the thing just to show them what a bad idea it was.

    I've yet to see an access control system that can't be broken or circumvented; this one doesn't even come close.

    Xentax

    --
    You shouldn't verb words.
  38. An interesting question... by goldspider · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This is a VERY interesting question, as it has implications well beyond gaming, and I think the answers will expose an interesting hypocricy.

    Now we all know that that cheating in online games is for the most part a Bad Thing (tm). We all remember the original Quake bots (my personal favorite was the StoogeBot) that required a certain measure of circumventing of built-in precautions. Generally when people were caught, they heard about it. Flames, kicks, bans, you name it.

    Now we have issues of people using similar circumventions to get around copy protection instead of anti-cheating measures. I realize that this isn't exactly the same thing, but the two scenarios have a common theme: people using third-party software to use a product in a manner in which it was never intended.

    What I find amusing is that generally (at least on Slashdot) the circumvention of copy protection is usually regarded as a Good Thing (tm), but becomes less desirable when it comes to games.

    Could it be that third-party circumvention is a good thing as long as it doesn't negatively affect you?

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
  39. There is only one way to truly combat cheating. by larva · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Since anything that runs on a client can be compromized (there is _no_ way to make sure this doesnt happen) the only real option for games is to just send pre rendered graphical images to the client which in turn sends back the client keystrokes. this is ofcourse way too bandwidth and serverside intensive to work with current technology, imagine doing this for a MMORPG with 60k users online simultaniously :) .. and even if you use this method the cheaters can respond by writing pattern-reqognition systems which still will be able to autoaim and such (although it raises the bar considerably).

    it DOES remove the threat of wallhacks and clientside radars but a good game protocol shouldnt send information about things outside of the clients vision anyway.

    K

    --
    -- gunzip-howto.tar.gz
  40. Re:Close Source is not secure by LordKaT · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The whole point of not making it open source is so your average script kiddie can't easily screw around with the system they have in place.

    But the whole argument for this particular program to be open source is really pointless because they've chosen to break the #1 rule of multiplayer programming: Never trust the client. So it really does not matter if it's open source or closed source; the protection will be broken very easily, either by a script kiddie with a very basic understanding of a MAC address, or by somone who can reverse-engineer the data sent between the client and server.

    --LordKaT

  41. My MAC is 00:00:00:37:33:73 by bartman · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wonder how many people will change theirs to same as mine...

    --
    -- bartman
  42. Why MAC? by mnordstr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they want something static, why go with MAC? They could just make an MD5 of some system specific info. That can't be easily tampered with. I'm not suggesting this, just making a statement :-)

  43. High road to the Locked Down Computer(tm) by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I hope you're catching on to the dialectic here: this move will fail miserably. because NIC addresses are trivially easy to spoof. The next dialectical step: "We need some sort of unspoofable hardware key--maybe processor-based DRM." People will buy it if you can't play games without it. The end result will be a computer that protects you from yourself.

    Whether it's in the name of catching cheaters or catching terrorists, our freedom and autonomy are about to evaporate.

    1. Re:High road to the Locked Down Computer(tm) by jdcook · · Score: 3, Funny

      Wow. "Dialectic" on Slashdot. It's a brave new frontier.

      --
      Q:How many libertarians does it take to stop a Panzer division? A:None. Obviously market forces will take care of it.
  44. Changeable MACs by ari_j · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yeah, this definitely won't work with my Sun IPX. (As if that's an issue...) Ever since I left it in the trunk of my car for an entire winter (a harsh one, at that - nary a night of temperatures above -10F did we see, and quite frequently it was much colder even than that), the NVRAM gets reset when the box is powered down. So now I get errors from the PROM at power-up, because my MAC address is ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff and my machine ID is also all 1's. So I have to write some Forth every time I boot up (the only bad part being that I have to do it at the console, and I don't have a serial console cable, so I have to lug out the behemoth 19" monitor that goes with it), in order to set my MAC address to something valid and to generate all the parity and checksums and whatnot.

  45. Re:Shh... by Effugas · · Score: 5, Informative

    If there's one card on a network, and you add another, the question becomes "what are the odds that the two cards will pick the same number?" Since there's 48 bits of entropy(minus a small range for multicast addresses and broadcast), the odds are effectively 2^48.

    This is big.

    If there's many cards on a network, and you want to know how many total you can add before two of them will end up with the same card, the answer's far smaller -- 2^24, which is still pretty huge(it's a bit more than 16 million). It's a different problem because each time you add a new card, the card after has one more it can possibly match with. This is known as the birthday paradox, so named because this precise logic means that given 23 people in a room, there's a +50% chance that two people have the same birthday. Each new person is one more to match with.

    In reality, this is a moot point: MAC address prefixes are assigned by manufacturer, and the manufacturer serializes their cards such that no two shipped devices should ever have the same MAC address. Sometimes there are screwups, but they're pretty rare as far as I know.

    To debunk what a couple people are saying -- yes, MAC addresses as exposed to the network can be changed, but MAC addresses as detected by custom client software may be more tricky. Whatever the driver is exposing to the network, the card itself can't usually have its MAC address written over(i.e. once power is cycled, that card's returning to original shipped condition). I'm positive there are exceptions to this, but they're probably rare.

    Actually, this gives me an interesting idea. You can probably remotely fingerprint the age of a computer based on the MAC address of its ethernet card...and if IPV6's MAC->IP shove goes through, you'll be able to do that reasonably remotely!

    Yours Truly,

    Dan Kaminsky
    DoxPara Research
    http://www.doxpara.com

  46. It won't work by tkrotchko · · Score: 3, Funny

    For a bunch of reasons, but two to think about:

    1) Many windows drivers let you put in arbitrary MAC's. Ban me? No prob, I'll change it to something else.

    2) Many firewalls will let you do the same thing.

    3) Ethernet cards cost what...a dollar or two at a used computer swap meet? If it comes down to it just keep a stack of 10.

    It appears this is intended to catch people clever enough to cheat, but not clever enough to change their MAC address.

    Another example of poorly contructed solutions to a badly defined problem.

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
  47. Re:Hurrumph by hank · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So what happens if I lose to this 12-year-old-elite-gaming-phenom in a 1v1 deathmatch, get mad, social engineer his MAC address out of him, set mine to his, cheat, and get it (his MAC) banned. Who's to stop that? It's basically his word against the server logs. :-/

  48. Easy way to find out if you're cheating on dial-up by rcs1000 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Simple: if you are winning at Counter Strike despite a ping of 1,000+, then you must be cheating.

    I mean, duh...

    --
    --- My dad's political betting
  49. Re:Why not use internet Public Key Infrastructures by Junta · · Score: 3, Interesting

    No thanks about drawing commercial CAs into it. If a game publisher *was* to implement such a system, they would simply make themselves a CA and distribute their CA cert with the software. They *could* go so far as including a private key with each copy of the software, but costs would skyrocket if releasing en mass. The system I would envision here is that one purchases the game, gets online, and goes to the server and registers the CD-Key in exchange for having a private key signed. The advantages would, of course, be that the authentication mechanism is not prone to theft (i.e. the server being connected to never sees your important credentials, no vulnerable information is transmitted over the wire), and could be more enforceable (coming up with a keygen is one thing, trying to fake a 4096 bit key with signed certificate is another), provided the process for getting a certificate were sufficiently rigorous.

    Hell, if the game was critically dependent on online functionality, you could let the game go free on the net and just sell CD-Keys. If any small projects want to try to make it big without the potentially crippling barrier to entry into mass distributers, this would be the way I would think... Stick it on Gnutella and let people *think* it is illegal to download and its popularity could be good...

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  50. Re:Shh... by repvik · · Score: 3, Informative
    Whatever the driver is exposing to the network, the card itself can't usually have its MAC address written over(i.e. once power is cycled, that card's returning to original shipped condition). I'm positive there are exceptions to this, but they're probably rare.

    Just so you know. There are loads of 3Com-cards that you can permanently change the mac address of. I have one with an address of 42:42:42:42:42:42, another one with 00:DE:AD:BE:EF:00.

    You can change that together with the rest of the card settings with a program running in dos-mode (3c5x9cfg.exe, get it from 3com.com). It's saved in eeprom or something like that. Very nice cards :)

  51. Simple solution by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Set up a few computers with bots hacked onto them and have the clients send out increments of MAC addresses, until all of them have been marked as cheaters.
    Once nobody can connect they wont be able to use the system anymore. Shouldnt take too long if a few people here help out.

    --
    -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
  52. "Trust" and online games using GPG trust rings. by aphor · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This sounds like a good application for GPG. Join a league, get your key signed, get on the "good list." Cheat (get caught cheating), and your public key is placed on the signed "bad list." Servers would "belong" to leagues by checking the league listings to authenticate users.

    If you get on the bad list, you can make a new key, but you have to start from scratch paying dues or otherwise earning "member in good standing" status.

    Thanks again Phil!

    --
    --- Nothing clever here: move along now...
  53. Re:Exposing myself. by jayayeem · · Score: 5, Funny

    It is a typo for "Tolkien Ring", a system in which the computer that holds the "One True Ring" becomes the most powerful machine on the network.

    --
    I metamoderate, therefore I am
  54. What's the Big Deal? by reallocate · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What's the big deal? If a private network doesn't want to let you in, why should they? A unique MAC addess is just another way of establishing who you are.

    --
    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
  55. Anonymity and privacy by Tomster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems people tend to confuse privacy with anonymity. Privacy means preventing others from getting information about you -- whether it's what kind of toothpaste you use or your SSN. Anonymity means preventing others from finding out who you are. The two are related, in that in practice they often go hand-in-hand. But they are distinct.

    -Thomas

  56. I don't have a MAC address by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm using a PC.

  57. Anonymity and responsibility by Tomster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For many people, being anonymous online means "I can do whatever I want" because there are no significant consequences for their misbehavior. To these people, I say: life is much nicer when you are nice to other people. Try it, you might be surprised.

    -Thomas

  58. New way to remove honest players by Jeppe+Salvesen · · Score: 5, Funny

    Great. This is another way to get rid of those pesky, honest players and my enemies.

    I'll just assume their MAC address, misbehave like hell. Their MAC gets banned, and I get rid of the losers.

    Alone, I shall reign through spite and malice.

    --

    Stop the brainwash

  59. ifconfig man pages by bobKali · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since the ifconfig man pages contain instructions on how to change MAC addresses and
    Since changing the MAC address would allow a cheater to circumvent access controls
    Then are the ifconfig man pages now illegal in the US under the DMCA?

  60. Re:Shh... by sfe_software · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Further, anybody who's smart enough to figure out how to change MAC addresses can also figure out that they can assign their own static IP address from the DHCP pool and the DHCP server will often allocate around it.

    Off-topic, but I used to do that when I had a cable modem. One day, however, I typo'd the ifconfig command on FreeBSD, and accidentally took over the router's IP (I mixed up my IP with the gateway IP). My phone promptly rang... they didn't much like that. Seems I took out service for the whole area, and they had to reset the router.

    Good thing this was before 9/11 and all the crazy computer crime laws...

    --
    NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
  61. Not just for gaming by chazzf · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work tech support at a small liberal arts college, and we require all students to register their machines within three weeks of getting on campus. We then lock their ports to their MAC addresses. If you need to move or change your card you can re-register, usually the change goes through in a day. We did it to make it easier to detect and limit email worms. If we see it coming from some specified port we close it off and the flag passes to the techs. So far it's worked pretty well, often we get people coming to us complaining that "their Internet doesn't work," usually it's because they got Klez and we shut their port off. Decent alarm system, really.

    --
    No statement is true, not even this one.
  62. Better idea by pclminion · · Score: 3, Interesting
    If there's someone who's clearly cheating, why not let the game participants (from BOTH sides) vote to kick him out?

    "FuckStar31337 is using a wireframe hack. Press K to cast your Kick Vote."

    Sure, I could get booted out of games arbitrarily by assholes, but I wouldn't want to play with said assholes, anyway. Not that I've even played a game since about 1999...

  63. Neverwinter Nights has a much better method by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You can ban CD keys. Basically the only way around that is to buy a new copy of the game, which I doubt many people are willing to do.

    Teh CD keys are also an effective anti-piracy measrure, and one that isn't bothersome to legit users. When you are using the game for local play, the CD key doesn't matter, it's never checked. When you play on the Internet, however, the CD key is authenticated.

    When you first go to play multiplayer games, you client talks to the master server and lets it know what it's key is, the server chekcs and authenticates this against its list. Then, when you connect to a server the server checks your key, and asks the master if this is a legit key and if that key has authenticated. If not, the server refuses the connection.

    Hence, you can ban a CD key, and be very certian that the person it belongs to has been completely banned. Things like key generators aren't effective because while they can know the algortihm used to make legit keys, the keyspace is huge and they have no way of knowing which are actually legit and which aren't.

    So it ends up working out pretty nice for both parties. Bioware gets some copyprotection that there is actually a reason for srever owners to want to use.

  64. Howto change MAC in Win by Junky191 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Q. How can I change my media access control (MAC) address under Windows NT 4.0?

    A. Each network adapter card has a MAC address, which machines on local subnets use to talk to each other. MAC addresses are usually burned into the adapters during the manufacturing process. To overwrite a network adapter card's default MAC address, perform the following steps:
    1. Start the registry editor (e.g., regedit.exe).
    2. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\\Parameters.
    3. From the Edit menu, select New - String Value.
    4. Type a name of NetworkAddress, and press Enter.
    5. Double-click the new value, and enter the adapter's new MAC value.
    6. Click OK.
    7. Close the registry editor.
    8. Reboot the machine.

    This makes me very happy- One should be able to deliver their cutting remarks and wage psychiological warfare upon the weak with one liners like "Yeah thats what your mom did last night, cock jocky."

    That is the essence of multiplayer gaming, and any attempt to deprive us of that should be fought bitterly.

  65. Re:I disagree by susano_otter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ah, but the average cheater does know how to change the MAC address: visit their favorite warez/cheats site, download the application or instructions for changing the address, and change the address.

    The smart cheater who writes the utility is central to the argument after all, since historically the smart cheaters have published tools for the ignorant ones not "eventually" but almost immediately. The smart cheaters have already published a workaround, and the rest of them already know where to find it.

    --

    Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

  66. You miss the point - it's not a MAC... by B747SP · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I think you guys are missing the point. The MAC addresses aren't being used as MAC addresses. They're being used as ID Numbers. This dodgy little bit of software grabs the number, and uses it, out of context, as a component of the authentication process. This isn't a network issue, it's an authentication issue.

    So long as you don't change things that break your local segment (ie: duplicate MACs), then you're fine - go for your life.

    --
    I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
  67. And Quake 3, Half Life, and a host of other games. by The+Raven · · Score: 3, Informative

    Many of them based on id software's engines, there are many games nowadays that use CD keys to prevent piracy. One of the first was Half Life, and unfortunately Half Life sold very well and used too simple a key... so it is relatively easy to 'generate' a valid Half Life key.

    However, Quake 3 and related games have a CD Key system as well, and their keys are much more cryptographically secure. They have a legal keyspace in the trillions, making it very difficult to generate valid keys.

    The system works. You can crack the game to make the key unnecessary, but you cannot crack all the Internet servers you could connect to. So a warez monkey can only play the game in single player or on a LAN, not on random Internet servers.

    --
    "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.