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UN Secretary-General Asks for Help
knownsense writes "News.com.com is carrying a feature by Kofi Annan talking of the digital divide. He says, "But bridging the digital divide is not going to be easy. Too often, state monopolies charge exorbitant prices for the use of bandwidth." and of bringing WiFi to the developing world. This at a time when places like Panama ban cheaper means of communication and places like India instead of combating absolute illiteracy and hunger, run out to make PDAs. Is the digital divide a purely western concept?"
I'm not convinced this can be solved from outside or that all cultures want it solved. This kind of transformation needs to start from within. Indiais a great example of a country with excellent educational expertise and literacy, but they lack the educational infrastructure to deliver it to everyone. Compounding this their culture is not geared towards allowing all childern to spend their time learning. Many children in India and other cultures are breadwinners.
Bootstsapping industries in these countries also requires profound cultural change that is often rejected.
The "Digital Divide" is nothing but a fear of change. Governments need to realize that moving with the times is not a bad thing.
We hear of a "Digital Divide", but never a "Health Halving" or a "Food Fjord" or a "Freedom Fission". "Digital Divide" seems to be just a handy buzz term to throw around when you are a technologist and have no real ideas that address a country's true problems...
It is so difficult to form any type of organization aimed at bridging the digital divide. Here in the US the PowerUp program just died. If a program like that can't survive in one well-developed country, how can something similar take on the world's technology deficiencies?
From the article: "Though it failed to eliminate the divide, the program--established in 1999--did succeed in equipping nearly 1,000 high-tech computer labs in underserved areas across the country before pulling the plug."
You never hear people talking about the Ferrari divide, the posh house with swimming pool divide or things like that. Yes, it would be great if everyone could benefit from technology, but just at the minute, it's not for everyone. And what's wrong with that?
I know this sounds as a troll and most people expect me to bash the Bush (actually if a small country was chosen by the UNO to monitor every Iraqi transaction, I then guess that some planned invasion would -all of a sudden- become less urgent) but I really think that to the point that you may downvote this electronical impulse of mine to oblivion, this won't change my advice.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Dammit!
One of my favorite arguments when talking to people that thinks that broadband prices are to high for everyone to afford was that, "hmm, when did internet access become part of the human rights?".
Now i'll have to find a new argument... grrrr
True ravers don't need drugs
This whole "digital divide" thing is a moot question. Computing is getting cheaper and cheaper to the point where it will become ubiquitous. Except ironically that by the time we reach that point, the corporations and media will have completed their entire takeover of the computing infrastructure, so none of us will be empowered.
A digital divide is a symptom of a set of much more deep-rooted problems, not a cause. I think diplomats like to pay lip service to the "digital divide" so they can look like they're concerned about the issues at hand when they're really not. After all, having an enormous underclass to put to cheap labor is good for big business.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
Funding the "digital divide" is only a subsidy for major telecommunications companies to invade third-world countries and other places to set up their infrastructure for future profit.
Other infrastructure should be set up in poor countries first -- how about drinking water first? Most countries don't have it, and children around the world are drinking filthy water while the UN gives lip service to the "digital divide."
Even in America, the drug and crime problem should be rooted out in poor neighborhoods before we go and give away internet access to those who will never use it.
Think about it: intelligence and education (or a lack thereof) really is a source of problems for a lot of countries.
Digital Divide? No, Education Divide would be more like it.
Just my (un)educated opinion, of course.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
and places like India instead of combating absolute illiteracy and hunger, run out to make PDAs.
Well, the Simputer was in fact built to combat illiteracy! I saw a documentation about it on a German/Austrian/Swiss TV station "3sat" presenting the Simputer, and they basically showed programs to teach people all kinds of stuff. So, IMHO this is a good thing.
A monkey is doing the real work for me.
Actually the USA should ideally be expelled from the UN for non-payment of what it owes. The whole thing should be moved to the Hague or somewhere like that, and the USA should be allowed to further isolate itself from the opinions and counsels of civilized humanity. Of course the USA will remain a threat to peace and stability for a long long time, but it should be dealt with as the rogue state it is, and certainly not allowed to have any say in the debates of the real world community.
A lot of hate in this post, by someone being angry and young, isn't there?
He doesn't have a PDA i.m.o
girl
And never give money for free if you want to help someone.
Cancelling a debt will hurt the recipient in the long run: He will get used to getting help for free and develop an addiction.
There are other ways to help: I believe that third world countries should be given lower interest loans, even zero-interest loans ; conditioned by their changing their economies and reducing corruption.
This IT help the UN aparently wants to give poor countries is a step in the right direction.
But relinquishing debt is stupid and eventually hurts the poor more than the rich.
Working for necessity's mother.
For "places like India to combat absolute illiteracy and hunger", they need money.
The best way to make money is to sell the highest-value products and services they can, to those who have it. Hey, it beats begging - and getting "freebies" with strings attached...
Don't blame them for doing their best.
If you would have read Annans article more carefully you would know that he is not bashing companies he is asking them to help.
"I hope the industry will broaden its horizon and bring more of its remarkable dynamism and innovation to the developing world. "
this is not about left/right as you suggest, this is about humanity and the right to live a decent life
Hopefully this will provide you all with a chance to contribute and help tackle the problems/tasks Kofi Annan stated:
If all countries are to benefit, we need more and better strategic public-private partnerships. That is one of the primary functions of the United Nations Information and Communication Technologies Task Force, which brings together CEOs, government officials, nongovernmental organizations, technical experts and other information industry leaders.
hint: economics...chemistry
Anan says, "Public tele-centers have been established in places as diverse as Egypt, Kazakhstan and Peru," and that "bridging the digital divide is not going to be easy. Too often, state monopolies charge exorbitant prices for the use of bandwidth. Governments need to do much more to create effective institutions and supportive regulatory frameworks that will attract foreign investment; more generally, they must also review their policies and arrangements to make sure they are not denying their people the opportunities offered by the digital revolution."
I think this whole article misses the point. The problem in countries such as Egypt, Kazakhstan, Peru and other similar places is their lack of truely transparent constitutional democracy and a properly regulated free market, or anything even approaching it. Just look at our previous discussion on Panama. Anan is pushing for treating the symptoms without addressing the root problem.
If you want to solve the digital divide, stop supporting dictatorships and other corrupt third world governments. Of course, I can understand Anan not being able to address the real problem, being that said governments make up about 2/3rd's of the UN's member states.
Woopty Doo Basil, what does it all mean?!
"Compounding this their culture is not geared towards allowing all childern to spend their time learning. Many children in India and other cultures are breadwinners."
Its not the culture mind you. NO where is it decried that you shud have more children as they are bread winners. Its an adapatation according to the circumstances. Its no different from what we do just before the exam. We know that if we dont study now we will flunk. In the same way those people know that if their children dont earn, the whole family will starve. And when one's survival is at stake, ethics dont really matte anymore. And once u do something repeatedly, you stop feeling bad about it.
As far as spending money on PDAs is concerned, the whole aim of the project was to improve the circumstances which force these people to send their children to work, i.e poverty. Its the same logic, you give a man food and he will be hungry the next day, teach him how to grow food and you have given him food for life. And the next logical question will be how will it tackle poverty. Well, majority of Indians depend on agriculture for a living. And this PDA can help them to find out about new techniques, weather patterns (it rains only four months in a year in India hence correct information about the timing of rains is very important) et. Besides it can reach people where the educational infrastructure is not very good and hence help improve the overall quality of life.
What's under yellowstone?
Are you trying to argue that free markets are a sufficient and necessary condition for democracy and vice versa?
I hope not.
It's now the destiny of the world to degenerate significantly for some period of time.
Barbarism growing in the world, the same old barbarism of centuries past, just wearing new pants.
the world will learn a few lessons after much suffering and things will improve for a little while until the cycle repeats.
High levels of bloody mindedness in just about every sector imaginable, in every nation. Something is gonna give sooner or later, count on it.
This should be modded troll for the simple fact that if the poster believe that his or her own country is blameless and full of goodwill for all mankind he or she is simply and utterly naive.
"places like India instead of combating absolute illiteracy and hunger, run out to make PDAs."
And if the PDA's sell well, wealth is created, jobs are created, and illiteracy and hunger are combated. This without the intervention of the UN, the World Bank, the IMF, or any of the other institutions that the whiners of the planet like to condemn. The Evil Social Irresponsible PDA manufacturers pay taxes, which wind up in the coffers of the Indian government, which can then either a) spend it on programms to fight illiteracy and hunger; b) try to subsidize more development leading to job creation, or c) (most likely) squander it.
Could you please sum it up in English?
I forsee a world where computing technology will be considered dangerous to public safety. Since it can be used to invade bank accounts, model nuclear weapons, and copy Hollywood DVD's, all "consumer" computing solutions will be closed end-to-end systems, and only a select few companies will have access to source code and hardware API's.
There will be a debate about whether individuals have a "right" to computing technology, much like the current debate over gun ownership. Of course, gun ownership is largely an urban/rural debate, but instead of simply establishing gun-free zones, the endless argument is about whether guns kill people or people do.
And so it will be with computers. Since computers aren't mentioned anywhere in the US constitution, it will be all the easier for Congress to restrict and regulate consumer hardware sales to just bare-essential, low-performing models.
Ridiculous? Well, in most states, you can't own a howitzer, and if you build a car it better be "street legal." Why do you think you have any more right to a desktop supercomputer?
Already, encryption technologies are export-prohibited, and DRM looms not on the horizon, but in our faces. Currently, you can purchase an Intel chip and write your own operating system, but what happens when those chips are not for sale? It's not like you're going to build your own $20 billion fab.
In my CS curriculum, the idea was broached that "mission critical" programmers should be licensed tradesmen. But will the transition to maturity in the computing field be guided by scientific guilds, or will computing become a secretive, heavily-restricted "military" technology?
The third-world doesn't need computers. They, and all of us, need guaranteed access.
..to power supplies and clean water.
...plus without decent power there wil be nothing to "plug" anything digital into, not to mention little time to learn the device and its usefulness.
Being literate wouldn't hurt either.
In the third world countries that I have been to, the lack of power and fresh water add many hours of work to the day that inhibit things such as going to school, learning new things,
I suppose a combination of a cheap electicity, unrestrictive laws (telephones are cheaper now in Nigeria now that cell phones have replaced Nitel)and an effort to combat the nastier effects of poverty are needed before we all get our old Pentiums ready to ship off.
You might consider it as a Rorsarch inkblot test. The neurotic see their demons everywhere.
No.
"But bridging the digital divide is not going to be easy. Too often, state monopolies charge exorbitant prices for the use of bandwidth."
Their prices are too high eh? I guess that's why most of the major telecoms are on the verge of bankruptcy?
Maybe.
There is already a good start in the open source initiatives. This has eliminated a huge part of the costs that are associated with "joining the internet".
Developing countries do not primarily require enormous computation power for research etc. The need to be part of the international community and be able to exchange ideas with other entities using the internet. This can be achieved on hardware that most people in the northern part of the hemisphere consider out of date.
What is required:
1. Client hardware (donate "old computers" to developing countries)
2. Client software (open source->low cost)
3. Infrastructure (i.e. internet access and networks)
Number 1 & 2 can be achieved today.
How can low cost infrastructure be provided to developing countries? In the form of development aid?
and places like India instead of combating absolute illiteracy and hunger, run out to make PDAs
India has first to combat poverty, illiteracy, give food for its people, care to fight droughts, hurricanes and earthquakes, make peace with everyone else, and then make PDA's...
However, I wonder how will India will do all this if it can't reach the technological frontier. On what basis will India fight its ills if they tell her not to make PDA's or similar technological achievements (aka not make good real money). That's the Banana Republic philosophy. You make bananas and you should fight your ills. And we keep making rockets, computers, PDA's and nukes. From time to time we send you a taste of our technocratic civilization so that you will not feel so bad with this "divide" between us. But you should stop altogether to make PDA's. Poverty and PDA's are incompatible. Do bananas as we like them while making PDA's.
if i remember correctly for 'information society' classes. Digital divide is considered because of the 'universal access/universal service' idea. Kind of like we have on telephone service in the west (everybody has a phone, companies are not allowed to cut your incoming phonecalls even if you don't pay) The divide would now be that there is no 'universal access' yet so you have two classes of people. Throwing computers at them is just a quick and dirty solution (ok, it worked for phones but 'puters are more complex)
I'm shocked that this is labeled insightful. Anyway, the poster has little understanding of reality and world politics. If the US were rejected, then the UN would become a worthless body. Imagine expelling the world's foremost power.
Given that the poster is clearly anti-American, he should consider that course of action. The US would be freed of committments to the UN and would act in a completely unilateral manner. Right now the security council checks are the only things preventing this from happening.
Sure, as the poster wants, there would be some initial embarassment. But does he really believe that it will somehow make the US a pariah? Other countries respond to power, and the US has it. It would be able to exercise it in a more focussed manner outside the UN.
You can't pipe a bowl of rice down a T1 Line. I don't care what kind of bandwidth you have.
Politics is the source of starvation and illiteracy.
There's more than enough food, and bandwidth for every human being on Earth (though maybe not quite enough IP addresses, but that's what subnets and routers are for).
Politics is keeping sacks of corn in a warehouse in Africa, the same corn I ate last night, but some politician told the African not to eat it because of genetic engineering. Though this is a small case compared to the politics of tribal wars in Africa.
Politics is keeping loved ones from communicating with eachother around the world. I have no idea about Asia, though I don't think it's as bad there as in Africa. Pathetic! That's the best word for the politics coming "Out of Africa" (sic)... Pathetic. (not to mention ponderous).
This shifts the balance of power away from the superpowers (unless they have a lot of contries they can force to vote with them).
After the colapse of the east bloc the UN (at that time the west had a majority in the UN so it was a usefull weapon) has lost its usefullness for the US.
If you look around you will notice that the US is withdrawing from a lot of these multinational forums and are instead making deals with other contries one at a time. This way they are in a better position to force their will on other contries. It makes sence if you are the big boy.But the US should be aware though that this is not the way to make freinds in the long run. It has costs...
TCAP-Abort
this is not about left/right as you suggest, this is about humanity and the right to live a decent life
Actually what it's really about is the bad governance and dire civic cultures in the countries on the wrongside of the "divide" permanently keeping these countries in squalor. No amount of tech industry largesse or donate-your-old-computers movements are going to change that.
We've been down this road many, many times before. In past decades the "divide" concerned things like not having enough power plants, multi-lane highways, national airlines, etc. and the West did not fail to pony up huge sums of money for these sorts of projects. What have all these development projects brought their recipients? Most are poorer today than they were then, and this is primarily because they have governed themselves exceptionally poorly.
The sickness of the developing countries is the chronic inability to organize their societies in the necessary ways to make industrialization possible. Once this is cured, then symptoms like the "digital divide" will disappear as a matter of course.
I know this because Tyler knows this.
Just how was this redundant? I think someone just didn't like it and didn't want it to be censored.
What would be a nice addition to the moderation system, is for the moderators to be identified next to their moderations, with a place for them to put comments.
People moderate too much for petty stuff.
or Swiss ! :-)
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Im tired of arguments against "third world" countries spending on THIS (insert your fav. new thing here) instead of hunger (insert your other problems here). The world is not black and white. All countries need to balance their priorities correctly and it is difficult to pass judgement without knowing how the planners operate. Even here in the U.S I cannot understand how we can spend billions of dollars on frivolous programs (defense spending excesses) when we have homeless people, people without adequate health care, children who go hungry, innercity youth without hope etc. Do not buy into the propaganda of the G7/IMF (intl. monetary fund) who seem to be spreading such arguments. They are a bunch of clueless economists who have run many economies that followed their "plan" into the ground.
"Knownsense" is buysy spouting nonsense. This stale old mantra of "don't do anything else, but work on illiteracy/poverty first" is getting pretty tiresome.
Indians know how to combat illiteracy. There are states in India (Kerala) where the literacy rate is 100% (or as close to that as you can get). In other words, the literacy rate of Kerala is higher than Kansas. Checkout this article to read more.
The problem here is that of suburban kids who have barely seen the world trying to "fix" it. Before you suggest any "fixes", spend a few years in a "poor" part of the world and see what the real issues are, and not what CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS tell you they are.
As far as the PDAs in India are concerned, don't you that the designers (i.e. Indians), who are much closer to the targetted consumers than you are, may (just may) have a better idea of the needs of the villagers over there?
The problem with this concept of the Digital Divide is that it is too much like providing trucks without also providing things to carry in them. Sure, providing IT infrastructure is a good thing, but it is meaningless without a job for that infrastructure to perform. I agree that the pat answer "focus on food and poverty first" is an oversimplification, but what concerns me more is what value they get out of the IT should they be provided with it.
An example: I gather, and I'm not a doctor, that there are some easy methods of curing dystentry. Nevertheless, people still die from it. This is presumably because they don't have access to information about how to cure it. So, if we provide them with a computer hooked up to the internet, will a small village in Ethiopia suddenly cure the problem? They can, but only if they a) think to look online, b) know how to find it, c) find the information in a format that is useful to them, and d) are able to trust that information. Can they do that at the moment? Possibly, but I doubt they can easily.
And yes, I'm aware that the content will follow the infrastructure. But the question remains - if we want to get information to people, are we better off focusing on high-end IT solutions, such as WiFi, or on low-end solutions, like the provision of pedal-radios with skilled medical advice on the other end? I would be inclined to figure out what kinds of information are required, and look for the simplest and best methods of getting that information to the people who need it, before we start looking at bridging the digital divide.
btw, I am aware of good work currently being conducted (including by people whom I work with) into what role IT can play in developing countries. It isn't as if the IT world is ignorant of this issue. And it is even mentioned in the article. But the tendancy is still to focus on high-end solutions to problems that I believe should (IMHO), at least initially, be handled in a manner that better suits the situation.
Of course, I'm always open to being convinced otherwise.
The digital divide isn't a purely western concept because, at its heart, the digital divide has nothing to do with computing but with class. People least likely to have computers or access to computers are the lower classes of any society. Having these tools would be a form of empowerment, which the upper and ruling classes have fought against, since ignorant lower classes tend to remain a little more easy to control and manipulate for the good of the upper and ruling classes.
Just replace the term 'digital divide' with 'class divide', and it's just more of the same old stuff.
If he weren't the antichrist. I get really sick of the UN blabbering all the time and not really doing anything. They always seem to be a day late and a dollar short.
Complaining about the "digital divide" is just hogwash. Computers are just a tool. Like any other tool it has to be right for the job. Computers won't feed people. Neither will satellite phones. Genetically modified rice and corn can though.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
You usually see Dot Matrix printers still in use these days in administrative settings because pre-printed Carbon Copy forms are still being used.
Usually, the Digital Divide is usually just a bunch of newsletters claiming to put up communication antennae bridging distances less than what most villagers in some parts of india walk for water.Maybe you need to do a salary survey of the people who co-ordinate these activities in third world countries.
Maybe you dont realize it yet, but more people die of hunger, and not yet of the digital divide.
How about :
"Don't invade countries, steal all their wealth, enslave their citizens, destroy their infrastructure and put in a puppet government otherwise it will become an economic basket case and in a hundred years time you will have to loan them millions of dollars to help them rebuild a basic infrastructure and not become a hotbed of hatred against your country"?
The current world is a result of previous generations empire-building. We should try our best to avoid these mistakes again. A lot of countries are in debt because they were forced into these situations by other countries, usually through military force.
As my friend in Cambodia said to me, it's hard to get excited about IT when you're trying to clear up the landmines that no one else cares about any more. It needs to be part of a bigger solution.
Beating the West (U.S) at the technology race is the only chance the Third-World has to break out of it's economic dependence.
I didn't miss it -- it is a key in the issue. It is only transparent if you look for it and care. There are many attempts to cloud the issue, but one key one, freedom of the press, has been allowed in Kenya for some time.
Everyone in Kenya knows that the president (and the rest of the government) is corrupt. They accept it and live with it. The papers rail about it, but not much happens.
The information is available (US and Kenya) if you look for it. Accessibility of information is what the digital divide is about.
You still have to desire to have that information. That is a sociological problem.
Or, going back to basics: You can not solve a sociological problem with technology. (Whose law is that?)
However, I believe there is a corallary: Availability of technology can be a great asset in bringing about sociological change.
Michael
The rich get richer, the poor get poorer also, what's wrong with that ?
Here is a computer for you, and we have strung broadband so that you can have free internet access because we know that you are so poor.
Oh, you are too weak from hunger to move the mouse? sorry.
Agreeing with the above poster....
It always troubles me when people think in terms of pure exchanges ("we have to give up this to get that"). Its not always that simple. A portable device can be used to help combat literacy; it does not have to be something that takes away from it. Rather than seeing technology as a detractor, it needs to be viewed as a potential tool to spread/receive information (be it educational content, or satellite weather data).
Getting information to the people who need it will help empower people, and they will be able to make better decisions, use fewer resources, and if it works out for the best, make a tidy profit. Sometimes that may translate into one child continuing to working on the farm, while another now gets to go to school.
I picture the stalks of corn, now with legs and arms. They are walking around a famine stricken area. They have are dolling out gruel for the starving. Then they realize that the gurel is mad e out of them! They get very angry and go after agro-bussiness.
If we modify the food then how do we know it is still safe? The truth is that third world people don't want our Franken-food.
im a little confused by the tone of your article, but if im reading it correctly, it sounds to me like you are blaming the victims here. in teh case of india, its focus on spending money on its industry rather than people is not its own choice. its government is bound by International Monetary Fund loans to spend money as such. IMF loans quite specifically seek to gut social programs to help fund industrial "development." im sure the indian government would love the freedom to spend their money on their own people, but unfortunately because of western imposed conditions, they can not. further, it is difficult for me to commensurate your superior sounding tone when your own country has a measurable percentage of the population in prison and the second highest rate of incarceration on the planet, as well as grinding poverty itself. yet just allocated a further 35 billion dollars to it military. dont know what panama is doing by banning certain communication technologies. i can only assume it has something to do with teh rampant corruption the country has experienced since the United States installed a hand-picked former Westpoint cadet as a dictator in Panama. and then killed him and invaded when he started standing up for his country and stopped taking orders from washington.
Makes me sick to hear the "don't give the poor anything for free so they don't get used to it" over and over again. Obviously many people still believe all difficulties can be overcome by peoples' (and preferrably the individual, what a cliché) will. Well, thats just not true. Difficulties, and especially in third world countries, can not be overcome by these people alone.
I think it IS important that they be helped, and especially to access communication infrastructure which is THE key factor in wealth creation today, keeping in mind how foreign-centric (ie export of natural or semi-finished goods) ruined their economies instead of developping them in the 60's and 70's.
There is ONE more thing i didn't see mentioned here, which is of highest importance : electricity. Think how many people in Africa have a reliable source of power, without wich any "information age" device is useless... This has to be addressed too.
Annan is a blind idealist, which makes him perfect for the ineffectual UN. His words have little effect in the world because they are so far removed from practical reality. So I don't know why people are even listening to him. (If he were a weapons inspector in Iraq and he stumbled upon a nuclear warhead, if the Iraqi's said it was a prop for a movie he'd probably believe it he's so gullible, or should I say UNABLE to believe that some nation states just can't be trusted.) Anyway, as for the digital divide, some in this thread have suggested that there is one in the US, and while I might have agreed with that 5 years ago, there is no longer any excuse today. PC costs have hit rock bottom and they probably can't get much cheaper. And that's for brand new state of the art hardware... Even someone in the rural south should be able to afford a handmedown used PII350 which still has enough muscle to run Win2K effectively. A few generations of PC ago there were big enough gaps in CPU speed that certain classes of application (i.e. MP3) and operating system were opened up. (Like a 486/66 was pretty much the bare minumum for Windows95.) At that time, an old 286 or an XT didn't really seem that useful. It was around the 350-500mhz mark that PCs hit a sweet spot in throughput beyond which anything else is really only needed for games. So as we go ever onward on the development curve, all those previous machines that were created could be put to use. And the number of these "outdated" PCs will skyrocket in the future. Sure, people will always come up with new applications that require speed (like video codecs) but for the majority of what people do with computers these days (i.e. simple office and internet apps) these machines will continue to be adequate indefinitely. So if there IS a digital divide, it's more because of education. You have literacy, and then you have COMPUTER literacy. And since in this country for the longest time, knowing how to use a computer made you a GEEK and therefore uncool, there is this cultural aversion to using computers in the US that we're only recently leaving behind. So to say it's just a class thing is an outdated notion. Sure, monthly dialup fees cost money, but it's cheaper than your phone bill if you call long-distance at all. The internet just becomes another "must have" utility. It's about as cheap as it's going to get.
I think it is time for all world leaders to take a crash course in the basics. Someone needs to drill Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs into their heads. Take care of the IMPORTANT things first - First, food, potable water, and clean air. Second, shelter, personal safety and security. When those things are addressed, not only will the world be a MUCH better place, the other things will be easier to address as well. I for one am sick of hearing about a "digital divide" when people are starving and still being victimized by crime.
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
what digital divide is?
thank you.
But, eventually something will happen. With transparency and democracy, people know they're getting screwed, and while they might "live with it" for a certain amount of time, someone will eventually say "why should I let myself get screwed?" And they'll orginize other people who will get politically active and elect someone who will change things.
Transparency will cause people to care, because no one likes getting screwed. It may take decades for it to happen, but eventually it will happen.
Woopty Doo Basil, what does it all mean?!
I don't want to sound like a bigot, but...
I don't believe most poor would be able to utilize
bandwidth. Maybe to send email, but hell, not for research.
As somebody who lives in a post-communist country, as can tell you that it's not the West that's at fault, but state-run monopolies that set high prices. UN needs to educate governments of developing countries to make access to telecommunication and Internet as inexpensive as possible. The West has nothing to do with it.
The primitive mindset of the bourgeois is solely based on greed, selfishness and rejection of whatever is different, and therefore not conductive to social progress.
Problem solving should never be sequential. India can't wait to have hunger/illiteracy problems solved first and then go into high tech stuff. If country has to develop, it has to progress on all fronts.
Koffi Annan can't actually do anything to fix anything. So let's invent a new problem and make it someone else's to fix.
Would you die if you didn't have a tv?
Is a cell phone a need, like breathing?
Digital Divide is a racist term used by people that have no idea what they are talking about. Does everyone need to have a computer, the internet, and be implanted by Digital Angel? No.
Stop forcing your crap down people's throats!!
Yes - it is more important to have access to clean water, food on the table and a roof over your head than a computer that is hooked up to the Internet. However the two should not be mutually exclusive. In addition not having *access* to technology today will lead to increased inequality between individuals in developed and developing countries tomorrow. And access must comprise more than just computers and connections -> capacity to use the computer, the macro-economic environment and socio-cultural environments, integration of ICT in daily lives, relevant content ...
For those interested in more background material, dmoz offers a good starting point.
After WWII, the US invested huge sums of money to help Europe and Japan to rebuild. Much of that was never directly repaid. Did USA complained? Did the Europe sink into a dependency relation economically?
Not a bit. Because USA knew that it's necessary to rebuild these other economies to become productive trading partners and to forestall further political unrest.
I can understand the IMF and US wanting to use the loans as leverages. HOWEVER, historically the levereage have been used to promogate neoclassical economic doctrines and to benefit domestic constituents of the donor coutries. Thus, the # of pragmatic improvements are few as even the head of World Bank acknowledges.
If you want to better understand developing economies, study some real examples in historical contexts, say Malaysia and Chile. That'll give you some real insights.
I'm serious! Cybercafes are sprouting up in Lagos and other African cities, and guess who one of their main customer bases is? Yes, the African money transfer scammers.
THe free market at work, I guess.
The Web was developed during the early nineties, at the time we had 286 processors just going in to the 386 world. So all that's needed to surf the World Wide Web (as a knowledge base) is a 286 with a dial-up connection and a web browser.
This will still get you IRC and email, and perhaps some access to news, etc in lynx. But yeah, no flash sites for these guys. I did OK on the local text-based internet with a 386/33 (I think, I may have had a 486 by then) and a 2400 baud modem.
It's a good forward step though, it's good to keep in mind that in many cases "anything is better than nothing"
Then the UN would have even less money and resources. How would this help.
As far as the rest of the developing world is concerned, shouldn't the UN be more concerned with basic staples of life (i.e. medical care, sanitation, ect.) than bringing technology?
Go figure.
This afternoon (NST=+545GMT), i meet Tsering G. Sherpa in Kathmandu. His is a unique case. He runs an ISP in the foothills of Himalayas. After the national Telecom comapny was not able to provide telecom services, he used his own money to put in EPABX equipment to connect villages. Since the place doesn't have relaible connectivity, he put in his own V-SAT with gateway in Hongkong, there by giving direct access to internet and communications to the numerous tourists and also the local people.
And, his story has never been heard by others in the capital here, who are planning to spend tons of money in 'briding the digital divide'. I have worked with UN Agencies in the past. In recent past, many of the UN agencies and corporates have shown sudden interests in 'bridging the digital divide', but from my experience and knowledge, it is clear that they are sitting somewhere in capital cities, and making plans for establishing telecenters and so on and so forth, without ever bothering to visit their intended beneficiaries.
And in most government policy making, it's the teleco who are in advising position, and the battle is calssical 'netheads vs. bellheads'
And the many international initiatives like the G8 Dot Force have failed to come with anything concrete. Again, it seems to me that people do not understand that technology itself is not the silver bullet, but is a means to achieve targets.
Coming back to UN agencies, a couple of them are actually doing good work and amongst them are definitely UNITeS that Kofi Annan mentions. A notable promoter of Open Source software is UNESCO. Apart from having a special section on their website devoted to opensource, they were pioneers in distributing open source software like CDS-ISIS library management system. (though i don't advise using CDS-ISIS.)
gaurab
"and places like India instead of combating absolute illiteracy and hunger, run out to make PDAs"
:-)
So what should they do according to you? Half a billion should start farming and the other half start teaching? That will solve all problems hmm
Just a few engineers are engaged in developing PDAs, not the whole nation. What's wrong with that? Get real guys!
What do you suggest they do then? Vote for the right leader? Who controls the way elections are run? Is it not the same people you want them to get rid of.
Who controls the media that brainwashes the less literate into believing what the rulling party says? Hah Freedom of press? Its a mockery of the real situation. Just because there are elections don't mean there is democracy.
While I agree with you on most of your points. I think the key issue is control. The current leaders have control over every aspect of the lives of the people -- there is no system to check what they do so they don't have to do what the people want. They aren't even afraid of elections because they control it anyway.
In Cameroon for example, rulling party lost the presidential elections in 1992 but they changed the rules overnight and cancelled most of the results that did not favor them, decalred a state of emergency and deployed the millitary (whose generals are close friends of the head of state and whose members have exhorbitant salaries) at every street corner.
The opposition protested and the case went to the supreme court ( whose members are all appointed by the head-of-state from the rulling party) and the case was thrown out. One presidential election later, he is still in power and the constitution has been changed to extend is term of office. People have lost interest in the election process because it doesn't change a thing. The is the same situation in many african countries with so-called 'democracies'.
"Fighting terrorists with millitary might is like killing a mosquitor on your Dad's forehead with a rifle."
Bridging this gap is important and critical because of another buzzword - transparency. I am sure that Bill and Melinda Gates want to know where thier money is going, as I am sure that most people want to know how the money that their governments give to 3rd world countries is spent. With billions being spent on AID - there is only one-way to keep track - computers. Without the knowledge being in the country then Expat Experts are needed to be imported so you get the Kafka situation of a Sys Admin being paid a factor 10 times more than the president. Another Example I know about is a small micro bank ( a bank that lends from $50 to $1,000 USD) that has over a million customers - at the moment it is using Excel to keep the records! Wouldn't they be better served by a proper banking system - the problem is that a banking system from the West would cost about 10 times their yearly administrative costs. And the Western System would not fit the local requirements. The Internet has already changed life in the developing world. Friends of mine, who only earn $100 per month who live in Ghana often, email me. The cost of an hour at an Internet Café is a $1.00. A cost of a one-minute phone call to the UK or the US is $1.00. Before the Internet they had no way of communicating except through snail mail. Another case in point the only way that Foreign Journalists could work out what the Oppositions requirements where in the Ivory Coast Conflict was through the Oppositions web site. The phones had been cut off!
That war ravaged, backward, feudal society called Japan did?
One of the best things somebody could have done for the world economy was to go to VSNL and ask them how much money it would take to get them to go away and leave everybody alone. It doesn't matter how big a number they say - a billion dollars? Pay them.
There was a report on US National Public Radio yesterday about the call center business in Bangalore, which started essentially from scratch two years ago, and is expected to make about $25 Billion over the next five years. Nobody actually offered to pay VSNL a billion-dollar bribe (as far as I know
They're not the only place with telecom monopolies maintaining the digital divide. Most countries have monopolies on radio broadcasting as well, and the combination of radio and telephone monopolies delayed the development of effective radio-based voice calling technology in the US by 40-50 years, and there are large parts of the world that have limited or expensive telephony because they're limited to wires. (Remember that the digital divide is partly about computing, but it's partly a voice communications divide as well.) Technologies like unlicensed 802.11 are just gradually leaking around it, and most practical VOIP was initially a better replacement for ham-radio phone-patch that was good enough for calling your cousin in Israel even if it wasn't good enough for business calls.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Democracy doesn't mean free markets - it means the people picking the politicians who run their governments, and ideally means that the people can tell the politicians what laws to make. That doesn't mean that you won't get bad laws - protectionism is really popular in much of the world, especially in countries with farmers or big industries. India's a democracy, but it's got heavily non-free markets. Australia's Telstra is no longer a total monopoly, and they don't have endemic corruption problems, but they're still technically clueless.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I think for the most part you are very right. Except, don't say that these kids should spend a few years in developing countries before trying to do something- that will never happen. Research, yes, but do your best to help, ready or not. But by all means do listen to those with more knowledge of the real problems. Just participating in this discussion is a real step; now take another. Challenge yourself, and do something real.
> non-payment of what it owes.
Do you realize that the US pays the most of any country in the UN? It "owes" so much because the UN essentially taxes the economic success of a country, and the US economy is enormous.
Do you realize that without the backing of the US military, the UN is completely spineless and unwilling and unable to enforce its resolutions?
Koffi Anand should forget this rubbish about the digital divide, and concentrate on poverty and world hunger, by encouraging the UN should be more aggressive about birth control issues. You can't have starving children if people aren't producing any children. Thus, concentrate on distribution of contraceptive devices, and cultural encouragement of preventative surgeries (vasectomies for men, tubal libgation for women). It's a known fact that many of the wealthiest countries (mainly European) have very small birth rates, while the poorest nations have rampant birth rates. (Yes, I include America too as being guilty.) Providing food and medicine is "politically correct", but it is merely a band-aid that soothes the symptoms, but does not produce a cure.
its the same dance people just a different song. niggers looking for a handout.
SexyKellyOsbourne, Just have a look at her journal and past posting.
Koffi Anand should forget this rubbish about the digital divide, and concentrate on poverty and world hunger, by encouraging the UN to be more aggressive about birth control issues. You can't have starving children if people aren't producing any children.
Thus, concentrate on distribution of contraceptive devices, and cultural encouragement of preventative surgeries (vasectomies for men, tubal libgation for women). It's a known fact that many of the wealthiest countries (mainly European) have very small birth rates, while the poorest nations exacerbate their woes with rampant birth rates. (Yes, I include an economically challented segment of America as being guilty too.)
Providing food and medicine is "politically correct" and gives you the warm fuzzies, but it is merely a band-aid that soothes the symptoms. It does not address or solve the root problem, and may encourage the problem to grow.
With strong birth control in place, many (but not all) of the real issues go away. For example, developing countries have HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT because their economies are "saturated" with people, leaving the remainder jobless. Many ENVIRONMENTAL problems, due to the growth of cities at the expense of wildlife, will be mitigated, as well as the destruction of forrests and wildlife areas to make way for farmland to grow food for growing populations. POLLUTION growth would be curbed (but hopefully hydrogen-based fuels will become dominant in a short amount of time). EDUCATION systems would not strained by shortages of teachers, large classroom sizes, lack of funding for textbooks, and so forth. HEATLH CARE systems would similarly be relieved.
I admit that some of these ideas seem SIMPLISTIC at first glance. But remember that the Fibonacci sequence grows quickly to large numbers (remember that Fibonacci was studying population growth), and that advances in medicine have increased the lifespan of the human race.
If a developing country is struggling with its economy and too many mouths to feed, it should seriously address the problems I outlined above.
Then those countries can start worrying about the high tech toys.
Read the article, please. Annan is neither begging nor laying a guilt trip on Silly Valley greedheads. He is appealing to an enlightened self-interest. The growth of the internet is good for business and for human progress. Are there any intelligent objections to that proposition?
"This at a time when places like Panama ban cheaper means of communication and places like India instead of combating absolute illiteracy and hunger, run out to make PDAs." ...is the posters's comments and not Kofi Annan's (Read the article to confirm).
Slashdot moderators please note. You might end up attributing a quote to someone who never made it.
The argument that "people need rice, not computers" so misses the point. People used to say the same thing about education -- why are you teaching women and children to read when they are hungry? Because one of the PROVEN ways to address poverty in the long term is education. The more educated a community, the better position its members are in to learn about more successful ways to grow crops, trade merchandise, raise children... and remember, people in developing countries are asking for computers and the Internet. The value is already being seen in developing countries, as women's cooperatives find better markets for their crafts, farmers find cheaper organic pesticides and other information, local citizens communicate their community needs with the government... Addressing the Digital Divide makes a real difference in the quality of life for people in developing countries. The United Nations recognizes this and is employing several programs that are already showing results, UNITeS among them (it was mentioned in the article, and was a topic recently on Slashdot).
J Cravens http://www.coyotecommunications.com
Long ancient cultures have drawbacks, one of the is inertia. WIll India manage to get rid of the worst part of her ancient beliefs (caste systems), tribal and religious problems without implode?
Will India manage to avoid self destruction in a fraticide war with Pakistan?
How Indian politicians address these problems will determine the future, unfortunately every time I read or see how Indian politicans act I feel troubled and deeply concerned.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
B.G.A.T. (Billy Goats Against Trolls)is proud to announce that SexyKellyOsbourne has made our most wanted list. Normally it is pretty hard for us to prove our case against such people. But Ms. Osbourne has taken special care to ensure that the world knows she is a troll. Example #1 Right from her own journal. As much as B.G.A.T. would like to take credit for this, it does all come right from the trolls mouth!That one wasn't enough to convince you. How about This one? And then there is this one. She has also taken a moment to tell her something about herself. A quick glance at her posting History tells it all. Here is one of my favorites. Just have a look at the people on her FOE LIST. She has to go! So please take this time to spend just one mod point to keep this genital wart on society out of sight. MOD HER DOWN AS A TROLL!!!! Not because I said so, but remeber she is a self confesed troll.
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