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Net Vegas
Makarand writes "Vegas has to have the best of tech to keep the plotters away.
Popular Science has an online
article
on how networks are playing an important role in Las Vegas. Welcome to Net Vegas
where slot machines are networked and surveillance grids monitor everything that goes on. Net Vegas
proves to be the best and the harshest test pad for new tech. Net Vegas will eventually
move out of the city and into your homes using the web."
"Net Vegas will eventually move out of the city and into your homes using the web."
I don't know if I want networked slot machines in my home, but if I could access the refridgerator from the computer I could check for beer supply. Now for a remote controlled refridgerator...
save a quarter to call home from jail after you hit the big one
I have a friend that works on these things at a casino in my area (indian res, not vegas) and I guess it is basically a net admin position. He works on slot machines and stuff over there, they use some Linux, NT, and Novel? We discussed it a bit, I was pretty surprised that slot machines where that techy now.
:P
:P
One of the senior projects at the college nearby also involved computerising the casino. They developed some sort of tracking system involving PDA's for dealers...not exactly sure because I didn't see it - only heard about it. I guess they already had it sold a few times before even finishing
Yep, where people throw money away other people can pick it up
NR
Technology is always first developed for one of four things:
1. The Military
2. Sexual Urges
3. Easy Money
4. Security (making sure the above services are properly paid for)
If we can't have sex with it, blow it up, or make loads of cash off of it, we're just not interested.
Visit Richard Gere's Ass Zoo
tcd004
Interesting article about the technology used to watch and catch potential thieves of the casinos... but how closely are the gaming comissions watching the casinos to ensure we're not getting ripped off? With the millions of dollars passing through, the old "fraction of a penny" trick seems like it's a possibility, unless the casinos are watched very closely...
Since smut vendors seem to be the most thriving content providers on the internet (at least compared to Hollywood) it is logical that gambling establishment will be the security providers. Our triumphs come from our vices not our virtues.
Quoting the article: None more so than Ronald Dale Harris, whose job as a software engineer for the state Gaming Control Board was to write slot machine anti-cheating software. Harris surreptitiously coded a hidden software switch--tripped by inserting coins in a predetermined sequence--that would trigger cash jackpots. After retooling more than 30 machines, Harris and accomplices made the rounds, walking away with hundreds of thousands of dollars. Harris was caught when one of his confederates implicated him after being busted in Atlantic City for rigging a Keno game. In 1998, Harris was sentenced to seven years. (Emphasis mine.)
the para-mutual betting system is secure too. This is a load of SHIT, considering the Paramutual betting system for horse racing was just cracked for 3 million, at the breeders cup. I'd say it will be some time before this is common, or the casinos will just have to eat the losses, and there will be FOR SURE...How will the go after say some guy in China that hacks the system ?
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
What are the odds of it working?
Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
Everywhere you go -- from Walmart, to Disneyland, to stadiums, to McDonalds, even to some carwashes -- everything is monitored and networked.
All cash registers in almost every supermarket, as well as any store (blockbuster, petsmart, etc) that cards you, is tracking everything you do through a network, and is usually accompanied by an impressive array of security cameras to boot.
It's not just risky gambling operations run by the mob -- it's your friendly neighborhood megastore that implements all the technology, too.
The article says "No single slot could pay out $4 million. Not physically, and not practically. Even in constant use, it would be impossible for any single machine to collect sufficient incoming wagers to make such mammoth paydays happen."
That's incorrect. A slot machine does not have to collect $4 million to have a potential payout of $4 million. A slot machine could be set to pay out huge sums for extremely unlikely combinations, combinations so unlikely that the machine would most likely NEVER pay it out during its X years in service. The network deal is compelling only because it allows pools, not because it makes huge payouts possible.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
What? Las Vegas has to be about one of the most technologically backwards cities in the US. A very poor tech market indeed, and as a special bonus, low pay. One of my network engineer friends out here recently had to move to Arkansa because THEY had more of a tech field than Las Vegas.
Take it from a resident.. Las Vegas != Technology.
"One of these days... milkshake... BOOM!!!!" - emb
Hacking Roulette, was doable back in the 1960s. These guys from MIT built the world's first wearable computer, and were able to predict where the ball was going to land.
Here's an interesting article from a month or two back in wired. True story about some kids from MIT breaking Vegas.
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals."
I used to be work on the communications software for slot machine, and although every machine in the building is wired together via fiber optic cable (fiber optics aren't as suseptable to a lot of the noise generated in the casino, such as neon, among other reasons), it's important to realized that there isn't a whole lot data on the line that's really a security risk.
Every machine has generates it's own random numbers and determines if it hits the jackpot by itself. The methods to do that are faily secure, but since there are a lot of variable to pick from, such as the number of milliseconds between user buttonpresses, randomness is not much of a problem. The command to win the jackpot does not come over the network.
All that's really on the network are things like coins in/coins out, number of plays, and a lot of accounting data. This data goes to the casino for their own accounting, and also goes into a box which then computes how much to increment the progressive jackpot. If an individual machine says "I won the big one!", then everything is shut down, the individual machine is checked to make sure the software hasn't been tampered or any other security measure broken, then the winner is paid (sort of). The command "to win" doesn't come from the network, so security is not a problem from the network.
On some lottery setup, an administrator can send a command to shut a particular machine down, but on the whole, the machines are pretty autonomous. Casinos are considered pretty secure environments anyway.
I always thought this was pretty interesting when I've explained it to others, so I thought I'd repeat it here.
And if someone can do this with a physical machine, and do it long enough to make hundreds of thousands of dollars, then you see why I will never play on any online casino.
"We've coded this roulette wheel to only pay the short odds on a winning hit 85% of the time."
Kierthos
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
A technology I always thought was interesting at the Casinos was the whole "Player Tracking" aspect. The marketing people just drool to know what and when individuals are playing.
Just like the grocery "club cards", a player can sit down at a machine, put in their tracking card, and play away in the hopes of getting credits towards a hotel room or something. In the back room, some guy is looking over the reports, and sees that you tend to come in on Friday nights, play for a little while, have dinner, then bet a little bit more for a couple of hours. You stay an average of 20 minutes per machine, tend to gravitate towards the red machines, but stay longer at blue ones, and that you like to play "Double Diamond". The waitress can view a summary screen near the drink station and see a list of everybody in her area, have it highlighed in red if you're a top player, highlighted in green if it's your birthday, and if it's both, well, you'll get a nice bottle of champaine delivered to you without even asking.
The whole "science" of which colors attract which people for how long, which seats are the best, and which layouts work is a fascinating subject, but really only studied by a select few.
Last comment on this thread, then I'm going to bed.
:)
To the people who have asked "who's watching the gaming commission?", all I can say is that slot machines use lots of variables to make sure that everything is random on the machine, and everything is on the up-and-up. With casinos and manufacturer being corporate controlled entities these days, it doesn't make since to screw around with this -- the house is already making a nice profit, so why run the risk of a lawsuit.
And if there was something fishy in the software, there'd be a lot more rich ex-software engineers running around. I'm proof that there isn't.
There is so much more to this than just networking some casion cameras, etc.
The taxi companies have been paying telco insiders for taps into payphones, as an example. This lets them intercept customer calls, and swoop down before the competition can land the fare.
You have to go there and hang out for a while before you can really appreciate the amount of technology involved and how it's being used. The types of games being played behind the scene dwarf the action at the tables. Boggles the imagination, actually.... Not sure I want this stuff coming home with me.
Big gambling is run by big listed corporations and guys called Steve and Lee, not Tony and Vitti.
There are very few mob owned casinos left. There might be some vestigal ties (through debt-collection, prostitution, etc) with the majority but the influence of organised crime (violent, inefficient) has been replaced by the influence of the organised market ('family orientated', efficient).
Besides it screaming to be a bad idea because you know people would abuse it, but that normally doesn't stop the marketing people.
No, the main problem is that you're only liable for $50 on your credit card if the card is lost. What's to stop somebody from running up $2000 on a machine, then claiming to "lose" the card. They'd be personally liable for only $50, and the casino would have a chargeback for the rest. Not a good business plan.
There was a pilot program a while back (there might be others now), that used an ATM like card where you can put money on a card, then withdraw it at the individual machines. It was scary to look at the reports and see some guy at a machine withdraw $10k from his card, then 20 minutes later, withdraw another $10k, over and over again.
In Vegas a couple of years ago, there was a whole row of slots in repair. They tip the row over on its side, showing the mounting plate and everything underneath. Very clearly you could see the RJ45 jacks in the floor and what looked like regular Cat5 going from the jack to up inside the machine somewhere. There were outlets of course, and other cables, similar to large computer/mainframe setup where the cable trays are underneath. My thought was, if they are on a traditional network, then the guys at the other end can control just about anything on that slot.
Same trip, different casino, hubby and I walked up to a $1 progressive slot, and he started hitting 100 and 250 each pull. (it was near the back of a casino and we were the only ones there, it was also at 8mil, which is around when they hit) After about 4 hits, these men in suits with earpieces showed up. 2 right behind us, and 2 on the other side of the slots. They kept talking into their lapels (I kid you not!) like some sort of spy movie. I watched one guy look over hubby's shoulder, give a look to the other guy, talk to the lapel, and then we started losing. After a couple of pulls and losing, they walked away. I really don't think it was coincidence.
The latest gizmo at the casinos is recording the video directly to arrays of ATA hard drives. Not only does this save a lot of labor, but also the security team can review recorded video without pausing the recording in process, kinda like TiVo. With 250GB ATA drives costing less than $300, you are going to see a lot more tape applications being replaced by hard drives. In the case of the casinos, they keep one or two tape units handy for saving evidence, but basically there is a definite trend to elimitate the old fashioned VCR.
Ah, the lottery. Taxing the mathematically inept.
What's to stop somebody from running up $2000 on a machine, then claiming to "lose" the card. They'd be personally liable for only $50, and the casino would have a chargeback for the rest.
With the sheer amount of security cameras available, I don't think a casino would have any problem identifying the user of the card in court. I would be more worried about the smarter thief who steals a credit card, wins a couple grand, cashes out, ditches the card, and then bolts. If the casino subtracts the original charge from the winnings and it never actually hits the credit card (avoiding the charge fees, saving the casino money), nobody is the wiser.
I've seen the people who abuse their ATM and credit cards gambling. Last year, I watched a guy use an ATM on a casino boat just out of Florida waters. The ATM fee was $40 and he must have hit the machine at least 10 times, never pulling out more than $200.
I don't think the gambling helps these people, but I'm pretty sure these are the same people who don't understand the fundamental concepts behind credit systems. I could just as easily see them buying items they can't afford, then rolling over thousands of dollars in balances each month.
This was somewhat of a scandal sometime ago. Apparently a woman won a jackpot on a slot, lights flashed etc etc etc and she got a pile of credits. Just before she left, she decided to stick another quarter in, and won a second time!
The lottery corp refused to pay her out though (I think possibly only for the second win, not the first), as they second the (second?) win was a glitch, and didn't wasn't registered from the main computer - indicated by the lack of flashy lights the second time around.
All the machines have disclaimers saying that they are not obligated to pay for winnings due to a technical error. My question is, how do you tell? It would be pretty easy for them to say "oops, sorry no that machine is faulty, you only get $10 instead of $10000."
I think she eventually got her money in the end, but only because it went to the paper and created a lot of bad publicity for the local casinos. The big point is though, that the winning is not entirely on-the-spot chance/luck, but actually seems to be based on something coming from a main server. Whether there's a randomizing alghorithm or whatever,it seems pretty suspicious to me, as it probably means that your winnings are based more on getting lucky and catching a server during it's "win" calculation than actual random luck - they can probably adjust win thresholds etc from the home base.
No wonder they profit on slots...
where if a lousy M$ OS crashes in a big hotel, say like Circus-Circus, they are totally unable to function. They actually told us we could not check out, and seemed puzzled when I started laughing. On a Wedesday morning they had a checkin line almost 200 people long and could not even begin to operate. We just walked out, and told the foolish desk clerk to bill us if they could ever figure out how. It took several days but the bill finally did arrive, and I even payed it, though there was no signature. Why is it that the more automated a system becomes the more ignorant the people running it are ?
DMV anyone ?
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
...
Could you explain please? The nit-picker in me wants to say that since past trends doesn't matter, the casino can't possibly influence someone to bet 'wrong'... so the ammount of money would be the same either way.
The 0 and 00 is how the money is made, I thought.
The casino wins in roulette if you put money down on the table and it has a reasonable chance of gettting it.
There are two ways displays work. First, it attracts casual gambling by those who might be walking by, see the displayed trend, and put money down because they feel "lucky" betting for/against the trend. Supermarkets call this an impulse buy.
Second, if you have a roulette player there who MIGHT bet trends, he/she will risk more money during trends even though that is completely illogical. Again, the concept of "luck."
The 0 and 00 do make the core of the money for the casino. And it makes even more if there is more money on the table when a "trend" stops. There is a 1/29 chance for a big win for the casino, and a smaller win if the trends stops against the way the majority of the players bet. The casinos lose
if trends last a long period of time (ie. anything that is highly improbable).
"I may be Love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it."
There are two ways displays work. First, it attracts casual gambling by those who might be walking by, see the displayed trend, and put money down because they feel "lucky" betting for/against the trend. Supermarkets call this an impulse buy.
Oh. Duh. =p
I was thinking too much about the game mechanics, and not enough about the actual fact that *people* were playing the game. Whoopsie.
I currently live in Las Vegas and believe they have been all networked for quite some time.
When a customer wins the jackpot and I mean "thee jackpot" in terms of thousands of dollars the slot machine needs to alert an attendant about the winnings and send the log to a server. Slot machines only have a limited sum of money. Also the server wants to check the logs on the slot machine to make sure that the results are really mathmatically accurate on the so called tightness of the machine.
Slot machines can be adjusted to give users less or more odds. The Las Vegas Hilton or Stratesphere typically have the tightest machines in the city where as the local oriented station casino's in suburbia have the loosest. If the bar on the slot machine is between a jackpot and a cherry for example, at the Hilton the machine will pick the cherry so the consumer will lose. At a station casino it will select the jackpot.
Its all controlled by the computer.
Another area is security and video taping. When a customer wins alot of money from a slot machine or from a blackjack table, the manager will select a camera that faces the particular machine and will watch a video log in fast motion to make sure the user did not cheat.
Also a casino like Ceasars have 30 or 40 satilite dishes so gamblers can watch sports events from around the world as well as serve high rollers who want to watch television from home. Alot of expensive telecommunications are installed.
Last casino's hire mathmaticians and statisticians and use powerfull computers for running various mathmatical bussiness models. Everything including hotel room size to even the amount of booze being used to make a particular drink in the bar is mathmatically researched and formulated for maximum profit. For example you could not stay at the penthouse or villa in the casino's no matter how much money you wanted to pay. They are reserved for popular or consumers who have big checking accounts. Basically they are free even if you have the cash! Why? Because the casino's want high rollers who they know will spend a quarter million a bet!
You did not misread this a quarter to 1 million dollars for a single bet!
If you could only pay 25k per bet, they put you in the next to highest room.
This is all based on mathmatics and how much ROI they get back for each guest staying at the penthouse or villa.
http://saveie6.com/
The Harris case can not happen any more.
Every gambling jurisdiction has adopted independent test and review guidelines similar to those used by the FAA to ensure that software used in gaming devices is reliable and free of hacks. Yes it makes the software a couple of hundred percent more expensive, but in that business capital expenses are never an issue.