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Europe Goes To Venus; Mars Comes to Us
JamesO writes "The BBC says that the ESA is going to Venus, reusing the Mars Express design.
Also here. Launch seems to be expected in 2005." And knownsense writes "Space.com is reporting that Mars is coming to closer to Earth. It will be closer by around 191 million miles and will end up 85 times brighter about August next year. This apparently is the first time it's been this close since the Neanderthals."
ps. 1 mile = 1.6 km
transmission_err
The US doesn't have any faked landing of Venus that we're covering up, I hope. If that's the case, Venus express will never make it.
But will any geek actually get off his/her ass and look outside?
Also, now that Life may exist on venus, will this lead to more interest in the oft' forgotten planet?
This is very welcome news!
Just the other day I was talking to a friend about why there is so much more interest in Mars than there is in Venus. There are plenty of difficult questions that more missions to Venus could answer.
I'm very interested in what the results of this mission well be, there is after all so much to learn.
Of course, we need an obligatory Simpsons quote here:
"mmmmmmm..... gummie Venus"
"Entropy is the bad-guy, and he is everywhere"
appear more than six times larger and shine some 85 times brighter than it appears now...
Does that mean we can play Holst's "The Planets" 6 times louder and have a valid reason for when the neighbours complain?
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
Aren't we sending people there?!? If we're so close, then wouldn't this be an opertune time to take the next step in human exploration of space? I've gotten to the point where I seriously doubt the intent of NASA to ever send a manned mission further than the moon. They've become so addicted to safe, academic research in orbit or from afar that they've forgotten how to take that leap into the unknown which was (in my opinion) what made the early space program (Murcury, Gemini, and Apollo) truly great.
Narrative
Is it just me or does that figure seem a little high?
"Auggh, my eyes! Damn you, Mars, damn you right to hell!"
Astronomy is my passion, tech and computers always second. Although planetary exploration is not my forte, I have been paying close attention to all the recent probes/satellites/additions to ISS. Seems to me space agencies are pretty good at getting stuff done even though they're one of the first budgets cut. Cassini will soon arrive at Saturn and I am anxiously awaiting the flood of images from said sattellite.
cool, a spacecraft with a fiat engine!
seriously though, this article seems biased... why is focus on italy; e.g., quote "the italian problem"? doesn't that kind of thing (one nation not contributing as much as everyone else) happen all the time?
[joke]
Well it must be because NASA are waiting for the current schlock of Hollywood movies to wrap, so they can hire some of the biggest sound stages ;)
[/joke]
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
Actually, it got much closer in 1951...
Seriously, though, I hope NASA and ESA and the Chinese and private firms have planned well in advance to take advantage of this situation.
Get off my launchpad!
If the sun's going poof soon, why would anybody want to move closer to it?
Don't be an ass.
And just think, just in time for a Neanderthal's party to win in the U.S. midterm elections!
Coincidence? I don't think so!
-----
Paid for by "The Committee to Elect Edward D Wood Jr, Posthumously"
Yeah, and look what happened to them!
I can already see those wacky little hollywood screenwriters now. Churning out the next disaster movie epic about some pesky group of misfits that have to learn to work together to save the Earth from certain destruction.
By 2004 we should have three versions of the same movie coming out. Guaranteed one will have all three qualities:
A. Be produced by Jerry Bruckheimer and/or directed by Michael Bay
B. Star Will Smith
C. Cost $190 million
The article states that next August, when mars gets the closest to it has ever been, it will be 34.6 million miles away from earth. The article later goes on to say that in 1988, Mars went through a similar (though less extreme) event that closed the distance to earth to 36.5 million miles.
;)
Now I know the 2 million miles is still a huge distance when you think about it, but that's barely a 6% difference. All the numbers about the planet being 6 times larger or 85 times brighter, when you get down to it, won't be perceptible by the average joe unless he's shown two pictures pointing out the difference.
Unless mars starts to compete with the moon for being the brightest object in the sky, who really cares beyond some numbers geek being impressed at winning a celestial lottery?
You gota love Nasa's Moto... If you don't succeed the first time, spend millions more in another attempt.... :)
Valera - to Venera...
I loved that mothafuckin' song you sloppy dick licking anus!
I bet you 20,000,000 these mofos mod this to (-1 Offtopic). That is what they rate everything unless you speak on Linux, Sun, Anti-Microsoft, or do not shower.
We can kind of imagine ourselves living on Mars -- not that it will happen anytime soon -- while Venus really is a hellhole. They've had trouble getting spaceships to withstand the pressure, never mind the temperature, and the atmosphere has lots of nasty stuff in it.
But Mars -- we can send cute little rovers to Mars, and it's that cool color.
NASA did not make an error converting units! Rather, units were unlabeled in a file delivered by the contractor (Lockheed-Martin). The forces were expected to be listed in particular metric units, and those units were assumed.
:)
Note that even if solely metric units had been used, the same problem could have occured! It could have happened if the forces had been given in millinewtons but were unlabeled, and newtons were assumed.
Noone made a mistake converting units!!! Rather, it was not realized that the units needed conversion.
(Since Mars Climate Orbiter was lost, I have been completely unforgiving of the students in physics courses I TA who forget to label units. I was usually pretty brutal about it, but now I'm an unholy terror.)
Now, the deep problem was that no error checking and simulation detected the problem. But, that's a post for another day.
i thought you're a troll? why the insightful and accurate comments lately, honey?
Well, there's not much point in sending humans to Venus right now.
What would humans do in orbit around Venus that can't be done from a remote station here on earth?
"Hello Mission Control, the Venesian atmosphere is cloudy, and I cannot see a thing. I am about to launch the Venus probe with it's IR/UV/Radio-scannerthingamagig. BTW, I am still stuck in this tin can. I haven't experienced gravity in over a year, and my bones are disintigrating. The air is stale, the food is boring and I am about to go crazy."
Before you even start thinking about sending someone to another planet, there's a zillion other things to think about first. How to build a ship, how to feed the crew, what are the long term effects of space travel, etc. We still have a ways to go. A Satellite could go there now.
Remove satellites can do it far cheaper then a manned mission. If we're going to send humans anywhere, let send them someplace where they could acually walk.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
One, it's not that much closer than usual. It's not a big enough deal to merit immediately sending humans. (But, the two sweet Mars rovers the US is sending next year, and probes from Europe and Japan, will take advantage of the close proximity of Mars to Earth on this orbit to increase data rates slightly.)
:) (I'll settle for routine travel to Mars, though. :)
Second, NASA doesn't set the priorities for what it does. It doesn't have much flexibility in how it uses its budget. Its missions and expenditures are determined by Congress in each year's budget. I assure you that there are many people inside NASA who are chomping at the bit to break humans out of Earth orbit (including many very high-ranking people inside the agency). But, Congress has to unleash NASA, and fund any mandate it approves.
I'm with you, though, man. I want Americans to have the capability to go whereever the hell we want in the Solar System.
D. Profit!
See this. The same problem could have happened if purely metric units had been used!
Imagine a bewolf cluster of those!
think maybe - it wants to - uh - snuggle?
Cake or Death? Cake Please!
A collison between Mars to Venera...
What a good nightmare!
I hereby make a request that Slashdot should prohibit linking of any sites in a front page story which use popup or popunder ads.
All those in favour, say "I".
(Note to moderator: a little leeway, please)
If we're so close, then wouldn't this be an opertune time to take the next step in human exploration of space
Actually, orbital mechanics are a bit more complicated than just being 'close'. Going to mars is not a straight-line shot, as it might seem. It involves more of a elliptical shape originating at the earth. Remeber, when you want to go to mars, you have to aim at where the planet will be in 18 months when you get there, not aim at where it is when you leave. If your in a moving car with a pumpkin and happen to be coming upon your ex's mailbox, do you throw the pumpkin at where the mailbox is when you release it, or where the mailbox will be when the pumpkin gets there.
No, Im not a professor or anything, and no I have no links to prove my point, and Im sure a little googling would turn up a better answer, with some pretty pics too. Maybe I just watched Mechanical Universe too much as a child
-SiliconFoolI don't remember the Neanderthals being that close to us... well evolutionarily, of course, i'll give you that.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
You ruined it! Damn you slashdot . . . . Damn you all to hell!
sorry
Cake or Death? Cake Please!
....then these so-called researchers and quasi-space agencies wouldn't have any excuse to suck down huge slices of budgetary bread, now, would they.
While I agree that there are perhaps better ways to collect aggregate data that we don't now have, the drill seems to be the same...propose fancy manned mission off-planet and request huge budget.
Seems to leave room for other countries to eat their Galileon lunch, eh?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You don't know? Ever read the book "Men are from mars, Women are fom Venus"? Well, let's just say it translated poorly over here in Europe... and you know what happens when you get an Italian hooked on an scheme to get a woman.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
That is good, but does it run Linux?
this pants.
His dick is in YOUR pants???
He didn't outsmart, he manipulated.
Yeah that's what we want, a stupid fucking cowboy with his finger on the button.
He's about to kill people for some fucking oil, and you're treating him like he's a war hero.
Better pray that you're not in the next city that the terrorists are gonna bomb...
Mars will then be 100 times further than the moon from our planet. The moon is about 350,000 miles from earth, and mars will be about 35 million. It took about 3 days to get to the moon, on the Apollo 8 Mission.
This means it would take about 300 days to get to Mars, one way (assuming similar rates of travel). I guess you could use more fuel in the beginning to get a higher inital velocity and maybe cut that time down.
Anyone else care to speculate/correct my estimations?
If you are a Martian, than this will be the best time to order Earth pizza delivery for a good while. Better get your order in now in case there is a rush.
It will also be a good time to give back all that junk that NASA keeps crashing on your planet.
Table-ized A.I.
"Hey! That looks like a giant flaming meteor headed straight for earth!"
"No no, that's just mars. Mars is supposed to be extra bright this year. See how red it is?"
"Are you sure? It looks like a life-exterminating meteor to me."
"Nope, just mars. Definately mars. Nothing to worry about here. By the way, we'll be heading off to venus for awhile."
"Venus? Why? What's over there?"
"Oh nothing, nothing. Incredibly boring place actually, just clouds and all. Don't worry, the earth is perfectly safe, we'll be back later."
"Are you sure about that whole not being a meteor thing?"
"Of course. Got to be going now, want to have a good view."
"View?"
"Er I meant I'll be seeing you. After I'm back... from venus.... later."
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
even if it is a troll...
What about "Polish Engineering" or "Jewish Sports Legends"
Next time it'll be an industrial city. And it'll be a dirty bomb of some kind. They'll either set it off in an industrial park or a shopping mall.
At least, that would be the logical thing to do if you were terrorists truely trying to do damage to a country, rather than just get some news coverage.
You shouldn't kill executives, nobody will miss them. Kill regular people. They have more friends that will mourn.
It's sad, but I see it coming. Why don't the idiot warmongering people that also live in this country also see it?
Have I truely been made superior by refusing to watch television? I fear this may be the case.
I believe our reluctance to go to Mars is proof of NASA being filled with geeks. I mean, when was it last that a self-respecting geek stepped out of his geekroom?
More than mere navel gazing.
Just as we're going to Venus, Mars has to swing around and hit us from the rear.
Propaganda like this makes me sick.
The Neanderthals went belly up about 35,000 years ago. The article says that Mars hasn't been this close in 70,000 years. Therefor, Mars hasn't been this close since *two* Neanderthals ago.
Neanderthal: the new unit of measure.
If only Orson Welles were alive to see this ;-)
On a side note, whoever put the monolith up on the grassy knoll in Seattle on new years' 2001 has a priceless sense of humor. And they say Americans are no fun...
Wah!
4. crash
As long as it's not illegal (and/or nepotism and/or misuse of public funds), what is the problem?
I just don't get it.
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
I see dead people.....
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
slashdot moderator michael actually manages correct use of a semicolon.
This apparently is the first time it's been this close since the Neanderthals.
So that's the best time for the martians to launch their invasion fleet?
True warriors use the Klingon Google
Anyone else catch the ad on the right, "Five small steps for a giant leap"? I think they missed a couple of steps:
:)
1. Terrestial Tours
2. Zero G
3. Edge of Space
4. Suborbital
5. Orbital
6. ???
7. Profit!
Okay, you heard it...
never click that shitty link and, ./ should do something about it! why don't u just delete it? I'm mentally wounded from that shitty link.
OMG.
Freedom is good. but there are so many f_cking dickheads what the freedom is there for.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
That's short for European Space Agency. We all work with metrics just fine, thank you.
Funny story: a couple of years ago I was evaluating compilers (for a new project), so I asked manufacturers for a sample. Borland happily obliged; we already had a Microsoft compiler, but IBM...
I sent them email, explaining who I was and what I wanted. I never even thought to identify ESA as "European Space Agency", and the IBM people didn't think to ask. After a couple of days I had a phone call that went something like this:
IBM guy: "We have evaluated your request and decided we will not send you a compiler. You are just too small an account for us to bother with. We cannot send samples to any startup out there."
Me: "Oh-kay. Thank you for your time, then."
IBM guy: "So what's ESA stand for anyway?"
Me: "European Space Agency. We employ a couple of thousand people throughout a dozen or so countries, we mostly do space science projects with budgets running into the hundreds of millions, and we have a pretty nice space launch capability. You may have heard of us."
IBM guy: "I guess... I should have known that."
Me: "I guess you should. Have a nice day."
Today, five years later, the project compiles just fine, using gcc.
I bet Australia lands up with Pluto (-:
Nobody seems to ever talk about this... but the Soviet Union sent over two dozen probes to Venus from the 60's and early 80's, many of which included surface photographs beamed back to Earth. This "forgotten history" is well documented and also well forgotten due to the cold war.
r y_venus.html
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/spacecraft_planeta
Here are photos, including VENUTIAN SURFACE PHOTOS, from the Venera missions, including lots of photos of the Russian probes. Sorted by mission number.
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/venera.html
Why not send a manned mission to Venus? This planet is sending far too few people on interplanetary missions. I can't believe we still don't have a functioning lunar base!
How is this planet going to survive on its own? IMO, we really need to start building settlements on other planets.Mars is probably a better choice than venus though, because of the somewhat less harsh atmospheric and temperature conditions.
Nasa and Esa and the other ones are not daring enough. They should be given bigger budgets. Space is the future of the human race.
I wish that my brain could do SMP...
It's all well and good to discuss the theory of relative brightness, but who's asking the real questions? What's the status on the Dragonriders? Are they ready for this new wave of Threadfall? With the Red Planet being so close, no one else is concerned?
This I seem to recall was allready done by the Russians sometime in the 70's unfortunately due to the -- SULFURIC RAIN -- the drone lasted about 30 minutes or so before being disintegrated by the sulfuric acid. It sent back a few pictures before this however and that is all we have of that mission.
If you want to send people on the most fuel-efficient path to Mars possible (which is almost necessary just to get them there at all, unless you're using a rocket better than anything we've ever built), you use a Hohmann transfer orbit, an ellipse which is tangent to the inner circular orbit (Earth's) at one end and to the outer orbit (Mars') at the other end. Even with a nuclear or better propulsion system, you wouldn't just point the rocket towards Mars and fire, you'd take advantage of your existing velocity in Earth's orbit to cut a sort of diagonal path between the two.
Either way, an extra-close approach of Mars wouldn't cut very much time off the trip.
They've become so addicted to safe, academic research in orbit or from afar that they've forgotten how to take that leap into the unknown which was (in my opinion) what made the early space program (Murcury, Gemini, and Apollo) truly great.
Although I agree that NASA isn't what it used to be, I think you're missing the most important difference between 1960s' NASA and today's NASA: funding with blank checks.
PLEASE tell me that this website is a spoof, a joke, a satire, a pun or some other NON-REAL subsitute!!!!!
Let's see, Mars (God of war) is due to make its closest approach within a year and Bush is determined to start a war in the middle east also within a year. Coincidence? Maybe we should rethink this astrology thing.
When all else fails, run.
Submitters think up the titles; Michael had nothing to do with it.
Except there were 2 submitters, so Michael did have to create the title, probably.
I'm curious if the unusual proximity will cause any earthquakes or related phenomena here or on mars. No mention in the article.
This apparently is the first time it's been this close since the Neanderthals.
... And we will be the Neanderthals this time ...
Now they can come back again
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
How does this contribute to the discussion? I for one anm tired of reading "How is [Insert article subject] going to effect me?" or "Thats nice, but what commercial applications will this have?" It ranks right down there with "Imagian a Beowulf cluster of these!"
This is all fine and good, but we may ask ourselves, why? What is the point of going to the moon and mars and venus? Are we going to learn anything useful? We're spending millions if not billions of dollars on this space program, when that money could be used on SO MANY BETTER THINGS. I'm not being a troll, I'm sincerely curious.
This is my
Good enough reason to send a mission there....
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
(6) Men employees will be given time off each week for courting
purposes, or two evenings a week if they go regularly to church.
(7) After an employee has spent his thirteen hours of labor in the
office, he should spend the remaining time reading the Bible
and other good books.
(8) Every employee should lay aside from each pay packet a goodly
sum of his earnings for his benefit during his declining years,
so that he will not become a burden on society or his betters.
(9) Any employee who smokes Spanish cigars, uses alcoholic drink
in any form, frequents pool tables and public halls, or gets
shaved in a barber's shop, will give me good reason to suspect
his worth, intentions, integrity and honesty.
(10) The employee who has performed his labours faithfully and
without a fault for five years, will be given an increase of
five cents per day in his pay, providing profits from the
business permit it.
-- "Office Worker's Guide", New England Carriage Works, 1872
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