Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft vs. Modded Xboxes
hikeran writes "The Register has an article about how Xbox live service is now apparently banning Xboxes that have been mod chipped. Basically it seems this is one of the many uses of those unique id's used in Microsoft's software. Next up bannings for using foul language on Xbox live service?? Be careful what you say.. you may be playing with an Xbox Live admin..."
Right or wrong, good move or bad, being as how its their service, Microsft can ban who ever the hell they want.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I don't really see this as such a bad thing... My ISP does not support home networking, so they will not give help until the network is taken down and proven to not be causing the problem.. Microsoft's support team was not trained to deal with modded xboxes, so I can see why there would be a rule to not giving support to those with the mods done.
Slashdot uses the same rationale to justify its IP banning and $rtbl'ing. But hey, it's "M$", so it must be wrong!
Just disable your mod chip before you use Live. Some people have been reporting that it works fine for them. Be careful though - if you forget to disable it before logging in, your box will be banned permanently.
Doesn't this just help maintain the integrity of the game play? Can't modded X-Boxen be altered to give unfair advantages by changing the software like players did in Unreal?
Btw, users can nark on anyone for foul language -- it doesn't have to be caught by an admin. (Again, foul language seems to mainly come from 13-year olds who think it makes them sound older.)
That'll get rid of all the cheaters, pirates and Linux users.
Hah!
Coming soon - pyrogyra
It'll help keep cheaters off XBox Live. A cheat-free online game experience is something most people I know would give their first-born for.
And as fair as the implication that Microsoft banning people who've modded their XBox, as soon as you modded your XBox, stop whining and just take some responsibility for your actions. It's not like you didn't know full well what you were getting yourself into when you cracked open the case and started messing around with a soldering iron.
NO CARRIER
If you don't like MS's terms, just don't use it... Vote with your money... don't buy the XBOX, don't buy XBoxLive...
Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com
I'm all for modchips in Xboxes, it's one of the large reasons I use them (I helped work on them before the protection scheme got cracked.) However, I believe it is fair for Microsoft to ban the use of modchips on their Xbox Live service. We all know that Microsoft loses money on their Xboxes, and the regain it with the games. If a player is costing them money, I don't believe they have a right to complain when they can't utilize another (in my opinion) underpriced service. Further, this won't stop everyone, as dual-BIOS setups (one with the regular BIOS and one with the modified chip) for the Xbox have been around for ages.
As much as I hate to admit it, I'm torn between my hatred for the heavy-handed M$ action, and the proported resoning that it will help prevent cheating in their online games.
Nothing destroys a game community faster than the proliferation of cheaters. And, the Xbox stands to profit nicely if it can develop those communities (it's certainly not profiting without them). If I pay my hard-earned money every month to play an online game, the last think I want is to have no chance to fairly compete.
On the other hand...is that what's happening, or is this just another excuse to enable the control freaks at M$ to continue their reign?
Chaos, panic, disorder...my work here is done.
You mean you actually have to *gasp* buy the games to play them online? Jeezus I know slashdoters are cheap but come on. Blizzard has been doing this forever but because their parent company is a foreign evil empire nobody cares. Get over it, if you want to use a Microsoft product you gotta pay for it.
I'm a game producer that has worked on online games, I will say that this is a very good thing. You don't know the trouble that we go through to make sure that people do not cheat in an online game and you know what, they figure out a way around it anyway. This is the first time that we have hardware level control over the game .exe's integrity. With MS's code sign system the game .exe is not hackable and this is a good thing for all of us. Hacking RUINS online games and if this is what they have to do to stop it then ok.
Why would they want to be responsible for some hacker bringing down their server because they hacked their box to do [fill in the blank] and screwed with some important protocol or something that causes their server to crash?
As for using foul language... what is your problem with that? Again, their server, they make the rules. You are not entilted to anything. If you have problems with their rules, than I suggest you don't buy one. Oh, and anti-language rules are relatively common in MMRPGs so it's not like that would be so shocking either. I actually prefer to play games with others who do not continuously spam my screen sexually immature comments.
Where is all the outrage about all those stickers on your components that say "warranty void if removed"? Or do you only rant about Microsoft (that was rhetorical).
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
Microsoft aren't doing anything illegal here, put simply - to use xbox live you require an original microsoft xbox.
:)
People should be free to mod their hardware as they see fit (since it's theirs).
This is a bit like me fitting rocket boosters to the back of my car and driving it around at 200 mph. Sure i can do it and that's probaly legal. Driving it on public roads is of course not.
Anyway i thought everyone that bought xbox mod chips wanted them to make them into linuXBoxes - what the hell will they be doing with xbox live, what they realy need access to is apt-get live
I will admit that not everyone uses modchips for legal purposes, but there are many uses for them other than pirating games. With a modchip, you can write and run your own code, and run Linux, things you cannot do on an unmodified box.
So I buy an Xbox, have it connect through a sniffing proxy (a linux box with a modem and a serial nullmodem connection). Then I mod it, do the same. At this point, I should be able to start spoofing Xboxen, with fake or even strategically chosen GUIDs. That asshole that beat me at Q3 3 times last sunday? He better hope his GUID isn't available to me through my proxy. The admin who chewed me about about saying "cunt" in the #kindergarden area of Xbox Live? He better hope I can't find his GUID.
Hell, you might even just start carpet-bombing things. I can imagine even writing a little worm, that goes out hitting cable modem users, who still have a dialup. Late at night, it dials out to the service, and spoofs a modded Xbox. Hundreds of them, thousands of them. This could be fun...
I mean, there are cryptographic methods that could prevvent something like this, but after all, we are talking about M$.
Is it me or is the title of the article a little out there?
"MS accused of banning mod chip Xbox from Live service"
They later go on to say,
"...we're already seeing how unique hardware IDs could be used in anger by certain companies."
Well goddamn. I know microsoft is evil, but come on. Just because you don't want to follow the rules, doesn't mean they'll let you play with there toys. And I'm sure Xbox Live is burried in enough EULA's and of course backed with enough laweyrs to prove it.
I would have no problem if this article was rewritten as a non-attack on microsoft, and more as an informative article. Who's accusing them? I'm fairly damn certain,
"MS Found guilty of locking out modding bitchez from Xbox Live, Snoochie Boochies!"
All your fault. You cracked the case. You installed the chip, or had it installed.
--
I'm not anti-mod here either before the flames roll in. I'll be waiting for something worthwhile to mod my Xbox. As an added benefit of waiting for something worthwhile, if I do mod my Xbox modchips will be several years more mature.
Computational Madness in a round package.
As for the implication about swearing, GOOD! I don't mind a "Damn" when something happens now and then, but if I want to hear non-stop-increadibly-vulgar-peel-the-paint-off-eve ry-single-thing-within-ten-miles swearing, I'm sure I could go find that somewhere. But I don't want to hear it when I'm trying to play on online game. If you can't deal with not doing good in a stupid game without shouting enough obscenities to make all nuns on your contenant have a heart attack, then you need some serious help. I've been using Live a little (I got into the beta) and I haven't heard much of it, but I am expecting a certain level of maturity when I play online (about age 7). The constant idiotic trashtalking is anoying too, and people who make tons of sexual references and innuendo. I HOPE MS bans people who do this repeatidly. Considering that they are positioning this as something for kids, they most definatly should controll that sort of thing.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Of course, it's worth noting that the article says nothing about banning for using foul language. It's what I like to call a "story troll" like the headline about GM corn yesterday.
/sarcasm
It's obvious that microsoft wouldn't ever run an unmoderated message board, but that thread is so uniformly in support of banning modd'ed xboxes that I suspect the whole thing is faked. Kind of funny to think about microsoft paying people to sit around writing stuff like "Xbox is tehe best anyway so why bother moding it??" and "well mod chips cost 500 dollars". I'm just waiting to see someone with a PhotoCD stock image for their user photo...
__
Choose mnemonic identifiers. If you can't remember what mnemonic means, you've got a problem. - Larry Wall
No modchips to let you cheat :-)
It's not unprecedented either. Drop in a modchip on your cable converter to get HBO for free and see how fast your cable company splices YOUR wire when they find out.
Hack YOUR copy of quake or unreal and see how many anti-cheat servers will let you log on if they discover you're not running the default client.
It's very, very simple. If you don't like the rules, don't join the service.
The challenge is - can you install the mod and get on Xbox live, anyway?
Can you enable your intellectually pedestrian friends to do the same? The entire nation?
MS is doing this to *encourage* modchipping. It's like a contest; MS awards m4d pr0p5, in the form of a l4\/\/5u1t, to the first h4x0r who builds a kit that can modify the xbox in a way their servers can never, ever detect; it must be usable even if the person you give it to:
1) Has no technical training.
2) Lacks even a basic understanding of electronics.
3) Hell, they can't change a lightbulb.
4) They're blind.
5) They're a technophobe, they have alzheimers disease.
6) Hell, they're dead. Ease of use must be total.
The winner gets instant geek celebrity and free representation by the EFF.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
I have a modified XBox. It's great for things like streaming movies to the TV. I was on the Live beta and got caught in the first ban on Nov. 12th playing legit games. I figured it was coming... Anyone with sense saw it coming...
I just bought a second XBox to play on Live and it's well worth it. I'm glad I won't be messing with cheaters. I'm sure chipped boxes will eventually get on, but most likely they'll be with the chips disabled. I suggest anyone that has a modified XBox be VERY careful. It's easy to target modified HDs.
For those bitching that they spent $50 and can't use it, read the EULA. It says plainly that you can't use a modified XBox on the service. Once it is modified they say it will NOT be considered normal if you remove it. Too bad. My only complaint is I wish MS would have come out right off and said "Yes, we banned modchips." or at least had the XBox give a better error than "XBox Live Not Found.". That just makes it look like a connection problem.... It ends up causing their support too many issues.
This modchip issue has been quite the 'problem' lately in the Xbox 'scene'. I, like many others, have a modchip in my Xbox, and also have Xbox Live! Now, how is this possible?
It's actually a matter of simply installing a switch. When I'm using Xbox Live!, I simply use the switch to disable my Enigmah modchip (use a DPDT switch for wires 15 and 21). That turns off the modchip, and there's no conceivable way that Microsoft can detect the presence of the chip because the voltage going to the chip is simply shut-off.
If a person wants to use their modded Xbox, do not go on Xbox Live! What this means is that one should disconnect the network cable going to their Xbox when the chip is enabled, and presto.
So that's how to by-pass Microsoft's pseudo-detection. The overarching issue, however, is if Microsoft has a right to 'ban' modchip users from the Xbox Live! service. Arguably, they do because their is always the possibility of users downloading 'hacks' and 'cheats' for Xbox Live! enabled games. This would obviously be 'unfair' to other legitimate users, as well as Microsoft. And obviously, they have a right to protect their service.
Perhaps someone may argue that the modchip detection deters piracy. Maybe, but the amount of people who have the technical skills to install a modchip are arguably a negligible amount. In my case, soldering ~ 30 wires for my chip was a huge hassle. I doubt any of my friends and collegues could have done so. Nor would they even bother. How many people really want to run Linux on their Xbox just because it can be done?
In the end, if a person has the 'smarts' to install a modchip (even if it is the no-solder Matrix/Xodus chip), they should also have the intelligence to forsee that using such a chip has obvious consequences.
Look at THAT
A non-governmental entity can impose any restriction on speech that they want to at their private functions/on their private property/on their private gaming network
Write this on the back of your hand so you don't lose it
BTW, IAAL
utter rubbish
For the record, Sony has been very anti-mod as well. I'm sure once their online PS2 service is launched, they'll have a similar method for checking for mods.
#include standard_not_that_Im_defending_Microsoft.h
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...I can tell you that the average consumer isn't going to have any problems with this. Most of these folks don't even know what a mod chip is, and wouldn't install one if they did. Most folks are basically honest, and they just get even more honest if you inform them that they won't be able to play online if they install a mod chip. Furthermore, I would be willing to bet that the "average consumer" will actually be in support of it. I'm constantly hearing people complain about the rampant cheating in various game communities. If Microsoft takes an active role in banning those who abuse their services & hardware it'll be seen as a step towards eliminating cheaters.
The folks who do care about mod chips usually fall into two categories - collectors and pirates. The pirates want mod chips so they can play all their games without having to pay for them...and honestly, I can't think they'd be terribly surprised by getting banned. The collectors usually want mod chips so they can import games that aren't available here in the US...but that really isn't a problem (yet) with the Xbox. Sure, there are also some other folks who mod their Xboxes...tinkers and developers and such...but again, I don't think they'd be very surprised to get banned.
yrs,
Ephemeriis
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde