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Linux Spurs MS Price Cuts
jimb writes "Yahoo!
reports:
'What's happening is that Microsoft sales reps have been instructed to be on the lookout for any businesses that are migrating some of their machines to the Lindows OS,' Yankee Group analyst Laura DiDio told NewsFactor. 'If [the sales reps] think there's a real threat of some pretty large numbers of defections to open source, they can request authorization from Microsoft higher-ups to offer steeply discounted pricing."' I wonder how many businesses will now start pondering aloud the possibility ... I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
Isn't selective discounting against the MS antitrust settlement?
- mark
-----
I tried an internal modem, but it hurt when I walked.
Linux distributors announced today that prices for Linux would be 100% off, bringing the cost down from $0 to $0. "This is an amazing move in order to compete!" said one anonymous coward on Slashdot.org.
MS will do anything to maintain their monopoly on the desktop OS (as recent numbers have shown, it provides flexibility in OTHER markets), so you can be sure that they won't feel bad about cutting the price of Windows. In fact, as Linux becomes more attractive, there will be more pressure to drop the price to 0 (zero). Any other price and they stand to lose their monopoly, which is worth more than a few measly bucks per computer sold....
smd4985
Since I recently heard that microsoft could sell windows for around $45 and make a profit (I think that's right), if they really want to make sure linux doesn't take over, knock the price of windows down. More people would be willing to buy windows xp if it was $50 rather than $200. I know they want to make a big profit, but I think if they got more sales (by discounts on prices) they would have more volume. But what do I know, I'm not a marketing analyst.
I've already converted three business over to a stricly Linux platform on the backend. I converted, in total, 120 servers over to Linux from Windows NT, saving the companies thousands and thousands of dollars in the process.
No 20, 30, or even 50% discount could have changed the minds of the CTOs for whom I worked. Now, all the mail, Web, etc. servers are running Linux, and these companies are happier than ever.
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
that business use this tactic all the time. I'm sure we all wonder if all these foreign governments are seriously considering Linux, or just trying to negotiate better prices from Microsoft.
It's odd that Microsoft would admit to being willing to lower prices if someone happens to bring up the name, though. Maybe they're feeling bad about the "Licensing 6.0 won't raise the price you're paying" lie. Probably a lot of AP departments are now asking MS why they posted their biggest quarter ever once it was institued if it wasn't a net gain for MS.
Kind thoughts do not change the world
Microsoft's profit margins are over 80% on Windows - they're still making a profit unless they discount it to almost nothing.
I wonder if this works if you threaten to pirate their software? Seriously... I need Visual Studio .Net... I can't find an open source alternative that meets my needs... but if I threaten to pirate, will they give me a discount???
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
I once heard, that if MS wanted to, they could cut the cost of Windows to free, and they would continue to generate large sums of income owing from the Office Suite, Server Suites (Exchange, SQL, etc). I think they were speaking of the desktop- home.
That's pretty impressive to me. But it reminded me of the IE and Windows thing. Tie them down to the apps, and they are forced to the OS.
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
The other issue is that free software is not about getting the software itself for free, it's about the freedom to inspect, use, and improve the software as you like. That lowers TCO and reduces business risks; even if MIcrosoft gives away Windows for free, they can't compete with that.
Given that Microsoft can stand to make a little less profit on its sales of Windows. Is this really all that surprising?
Fear trumps hope and ignorance trumps both
I've been following the Lindows product since it's first annoucement, but I haven't used it at all (I'm not willing to pay $99 for beta-open-source-software [especially considering the high quality of many other distros]). It surprises me that Lindows rather than RedHat or Mandrake or even Lycoris is causing all the fuss. My impression has been it's a distro [or I should say a CEO named Robertson] that makes a lot of noise but isn't necessarily the best out there. Some might argue that making noise is enough. Perhaps it's enough to get MS and the press to notice, but if the product's crap, then the businesses and users who switch will be return to MS's camp quickly. Anyone using Lindows willing to point out how great it is or isn't? Does it really have a chance?
Who said Freedom was Fair?
... I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
:)
Yeah, but prolly not to anywhere near the same extent - proprietary hardware, remember? Added to which, Mac OS X isn't offering windows application interoperability.
On MS's mind, sure. In their sights...not nearly.
Triv
...should go to M$ and see if M$ will "undercut the competitor's prices". That way, they'd get money from M$ to remain on Windows.
Whether that's a true savings or not is left as an excercise for the reader...
Can you imagine if companies started to discount their software when competitors were involved? What would our economy do? Wait....that would lead to COMPETITION and competition is bad, surely microsoft sales reps realize that their software is supreme and that ALL THE BASE BELONG TO THEM.
Next thing you know, Office will be free to compete with OpenOffice and the like.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Microsoft is heading back into a world of competition. The monopoly ride was good, but now they gotta get back to selling the shit on the grounds of quality and superiority in peoples mind, even if that means selling it for less.
Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering.
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
Really? Maybe. The Xserve has gotten some attention, sure, but I think WinXP has solved Microsoft's biggest problem with Mac OS X: both XP and OS X look Shiny now.
I know, I know, Aqua is technically and aesthetically better, but most people don't know the difference. (Emphasis on most people, there.)
When companies start to realize that they can deploy both Macs and Linux with basically minimal fuss between them, that's when things get interesting.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Sex - Find It
The headline says Linux, the article says Lindows all over. Is Lindows the only GNU/Linux distribution they care about?
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
What's happening is that Microsoft sales reps have been instructed to be on the lookout for any businesses that are migrating some of their machines to the Lindows OS,' Yankee Group analyst Laura DiDio told NewsFactor.
I don't believe it. Lindows has gotten a lot of hype, and even some positive reviews, but I have not gotten the impression it's made any impact yet. (OK, maybe I do have some information -- reading KDE bug reports, mailing lists and help channels, I've never seen a single person using the KDE-based Lindows.)
Either the author confused "Linux" with "Lindows", it's another analyst shooting off her mouth about something she read a press release about or there's some financial connection to Lindows.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
How can it be possible to undercut your competition if you have a monopoly like that? Sure one can hope that every living soul out there using Microsoft learns about this. That way they had to pay some. Still it sounds a bit to creapy to me.
I mean comon, its not like Linux is that much of threat right now. To go to such an extreme to twart any sign of competition even in the earliest stage possible shows that they wont settle for anything but total domination. Thay still do anything possible to stop anybody from competing no matter how small they might be. That judge wouldnt get a clue with Cluestick 2000(tm) up her but powered by a nuclear powerplant.
HTTP/1.1 400
Just enter code, "thinkingaboutlinux" at the confirm order screen to show products at up to 50% off!
DiDio said that in some cases, the discounts could be as high as 50 percent.
Go read this.
Then do the math. At full price, MS has a profit margin of 85%. If they discount to half price, their profit margin drops precipitously to 70%. Other businesses should be so lucky; if my business had a profit margin that high, we could all retire after one contract.
I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
It has to be. When one of the companies that I consult for decided to move from Windows to OS X, the Microsoft rep was VERY concerned but could do nothing about the decision as they were absolutely sick of all the security snafu's from Microsoft. Personally, I also Switched my individual workstations from two Windows boxes and an SGI to a single OS X box saving me space, maintenance dollars and security and maintenance headaches.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
... I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
What are they going to do? Offer to raise the price if someone is looking at buying a Mac?
Yeah, you may call me troll if you like, but as long as Apple keep its pricing, it will be a niche OS, partly for those that wants to tell the world they can afford it.
I'm sure it is a great computer, but even die hard Mac fans I know are buying PC's because they can not afford the computer they really want. Not to mention all non-Mac users.
Ellen Feiss or no, people that actually do switch are really, really rare, even these days.
MONOPOLIES!!!!!
Back in high school, every computer in the entire building was running Windows 98. Of course, we had a Novell-backed network to do all the dirty work like user authentication and email, but from a desktop standpoint, it was Windows all the way.
I found out about Gentoo from an Internet Web site and soon began investigating the feasibility of converting most of the existing machines over to Linux.
Years later, I saved my old school probably $5,000+ and they're all running highly-optimized, natively-compiled Linux systems courtesy of the Gentoo creators. I initially considered Slackware and Debian since they're rock-solid, but I felt that Gentoo had a more active community and a quicker turn-over in the development cycle.
Regardless, though, Linux was the right choice, and I urge potential Microsoft customers to seriously consider Open Source solutions. Do not let these meager price cuts deceive you!
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
Read this article for more info.
p hp
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_michaelsminutes.
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
And those other companies? They do the same things when customers start getting evil thoughts of moving to Microsoft. Or one of the other companies, ad nauseam.
It's called "business". But it's not "news".
I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
Why would you be so sure ? AFAIK, there are no large movements under foot in corporations to move from Windows to OS X. And OS X suffers from many of the same undesirable qualities as Windows: for instance, it's not (completely) open and it requires hefty licensing fees. Moreover, the huge variety of apps availble under Windows are mostly NOT avaible under OS X. So why would MS deem OS X to be a threat ?
I still wouldn't buy XP even if it was only $1. DRM + product activation BS + all the undocumented insecurity bugs that I can only rely on them to patch and announce if they find it convenient... Nope, Windows isn't worth a dollar to me.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Is there really a company out there this stupid?
I can see the points of sticking with Windows (software works OK, no retraining costs, licencing cost increase doesn't outweigh short-term pain of switch). I can see the points of switching to a *real* Linux distro (Red Hat, SuSE, et al) aiming at the business desktop (Free, secure, etc).
But Lindows offers no advantage to a business. It is different enough from a user point of view that there would be big-time retraining. Most custom apps would not work (hell, most packaged Windows apps wouldn't either). They also play loose with the spirit of the GPL and it runs as root to open themselves up to viruses and hacks.
Maybe Microsoft is targeting businesses that show interest in Lindows because, when it comes to customers contemplating a switch from Windows, you might as well go after the dumbest ones first!
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
Do you think Bill will give me a discount on Windows XP Pro? $80 instead of $299 would be great!
(Laugh, it's funny :-)
Microsoft is offering zero percent financing until early 2003... :
later, small fast voice in background says
Offer valid on select Licensing 6 programs geared toward small business customers.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
If there was no Linux to compete with Microsoft, there would be no discounts.
I hope businesses see this as an opportunity to say no to Microsoft. Because if they all say yes, Microsoft will increase its market share and the discount will disappear right before their eyes.
50% market share for Linux and other open source OSs would be perfect and would make Microsoft play nice with their customers.
Linux: the best friend for Microsoft users.
This economy and MS's actions have provided an awesome opportunity for Open Source, and put MS at a risk that they haven't seen for more than a decade.
Yet open source advocates should keep focused. The software is almost where it needs to be, not quite. Why is this bad? Because there will potentially be a huge flood of new users, who will run crying back to MS if they encounter any significant issue (even if the issue is all in their mind). Basically, if open source loses this round of potential converts, we could be locked out for many many years.
Remember "that which doesn't kill me only makes me stronger".
No, I don't trust in god. He'll have to pay up front, like everybody else.
B. Microsoft's provision of Windows Operating System Products to Covered OEMs shall be pursuant to uniform license agreements with uniform terms and conditions. Without limiting the foregoing, Microsoft shall charge each Covered OEM the applicable royalty for Windows Operating System Products as set forth on a schedule, to be established by Microsoft and published on a web site accessible to the Plaintiffs and all Covered OEMs, that provides for uniform royalties for Windows Operating System Products, except that:
This reminds me the situation with IBM and their main-frame competitors, Amdahl and Fujitsu. The simplest thing to get a steep discount from IBM was to have a meeting with IBM salesperson while having either Amdahl or Fujitsu brochure on your desk. Worked like a charm! Yet with this practice widespread, it has slowly downed to all IBM customers that they pay too much in a first place, and may be they should look for mainframe alternatives. That was about 10-15 years ago. I hope the same will happen with Microsoft customers.
I can't even wrap my brain around this..
Here's my list of things a small business needs:
Paper - $400
Pencils/Pens - $100
staplers - $200
binders - $200
PC's - $200/ea
OS - $200/ea - DIFFERRED PAYEMENTS!
Printers - $3000
ACCPAC Accounting - $12,000
Rent - $2000/mo
Do I have a distorted view of the world?
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Specialized price cuts are strictly prohibited by order of the government of the United States of America.
No they aren't!
There, now our "must be fact because it's bolded" statements have nullified each other. Seriously, either Yale Law School is turning out bad students, or the law is so rediculously misworded that no one could even attempt to understand it. The settlement, in my rendering, appeared to put certain limitations on a) the kind of specialized price cuts and b) a limit on price cuts to certain OEM's. However, this issue is not about OEM's selling to consumers, it's about CTO's making educated decisions. It's a totally different ball game.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
I bet there will be a sudden demand for Linux gurus next week. Not for conversions, but for "studies" of potential conversions, so the companies can reap the new "Linux discounts" from Microsoft.
If you're idle, this might be a good time to set up a "switch to Linux" consulting business.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Monopolies raise prices, more details at nine !
Surely this should be from the 'Economics 101' department.
"Free software as in beer, copy protection as in racket" - Telsa Gwynne
Actually this is incorrect. The SEC filings are incredibly misleading. For example, Windows XP get's all of it's technology from the server team, so it therefore doesn't have to do a whole lot of R&D for the kernal and things like that. That's just one of many examples of how it's difficult to track profits within each MS department.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Good God.
... well, shit, there weren't any computers at school.
Back when I was in high school, all the computers were
Although by my Senior year, we did have some Apple IIs. They were networked by a sophisticated sneakerNet that had physical authentication (so-called "room keys") plus an implicit web-of-trust system based upon the user themself (not even their UID!).
Ah, those were the days.
Today, my phone has over 10 times the system clock speed that my home computer did then, 2048 times more memory, and over four times more addressable screen pixels (not to mention that they're 4-bit pixels on the phone, and were 1-bit pixels on the machine)!
Strange world.
Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
www.fogbound.net
Cost cutting measures are abound at ms!
Can now only fund 3 world domination plans rather than 5.
Balmer can only use anti-persperent at a 1/3 of the conventions rather than 1/2 of them.
Ms can only afford to leak a document every other Halloween now.
Will be forced to change the name to 'Window'.
It would take a week to install gentoo on a 486 / P1 class machine.
Source base distro's aren't for installing onto a lab of machines, I know you can take binary builds and re-distribute.. but come on.. how much work is that? Redhat or Mandrake would make 100x more sense in this scenerio.
Frankly, I think ur full-o-shit.
What exactly are they discounting?
I though the price stays the same, but you have a longer period to pay for it.
Does anyone know exactly how much a 3yr SA license for XP Home costs?
If companies realize that the ticket to getting lower oem rates is to sell computers with lindows or any other linux distro preinstalled, there will be more retaillers doing exactly that, if only to take advantage of the price breaks. This means they'll be on the shelf and people might buy them.
I've noticed lately that Fry's has started to sell a system with some distro of linux pre-installed, complete with free versions of every office based application imaginable, for a grand total of $199. With that low of a price, there might be some people who buy it just to find out what this whole linux thing is all about. Microsoft might be giving other retailers an excuse to do so as well. So let them shoot themselves in the foot if they want to.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Last year MS sent me some happy-ass brouchure asking for info about what platforms we use so they could "better serve us". I replied that we use linux everywhere except the desktop and we're trying hard there too. Basically, told 'em to piss off and die, but politely. The very next day the sales rep called up and said they wanted to enforce the clause in our Office 2k site license that says they can audit us whenever they damn well please. Coincidence? Maybe. But I don't buy it. We're pretty good about keeping licenses up to date and all so it wasn't like the audit caught us with our pants down or anything, but it was a massive waste of time and effort. Lesson learned: when dealing with MS politely decline offers but don't mention why; do whatever is needed to avoid turning one's self into a target for the software cops. 'Tis far better to stay under their radar.
ehintz
The net impact on MS's bottom line from a few sites holding out for discounts will be negligible. The precident this sets _could_ be monumental. Hidden in the pricing of any product is the message that the product is worth the price. Any time the seller fiddles with a price, they erode the value of the product. If 1% of the population gets the product at 50% off, and everyone else knows it, most of the population will see the product as overpriced for its value.
/or employees, a ~40% fraction of their shareholders start dumping stock. All employees who don't dump fall back to the middle class. Big time employee dissatisfaction.
One of the hidden messages in the Linux Meme is that the retail price of world class operating systems, and office suites is $0/copy. Imagine the price erosion on cars if there were free ones available.
The existance of Linux/Lindows has pulled at a thread. MS's cash cows are OS's and Office Suites. (kinda funny how this is the area of recent attack by the Open Source Community:-).
If MS's margin of profit on these two areas falls, then all their business plans are threatened. If these areas are only marginally profitable, the natural condition in a competative market, then there is little cash left over to preditate other areas. If cash is tight, them MS can't afford the current level of post sales support. That will hurt in the long run. If their cash reserves are depleted in the fight, then their stock price could fall. If the stock price falls, then the options which they pay their employees becone worthless
Here's the Meme, the talking point: The fair market price of world class OS's, Office suites, web servers, Mail Servers, RDBMS;s etc is $0/copy.
Find a loose thread, pull it.
Exactly. I wonder when their Windows and Office prices will go down so much that they can no longer afford ever-losing playthings like XBox, MSN and WindowsCE...
This can happen sooner than you think. Microsoft also dropped Windows on Alpha with only a week of warning...
My prediction is that XBox will die first, followed by MSN and WindowsCE.
A man/woman/turing device after my own heart.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Did that get your attention? Good. We'll get to that (misleading) headline in a moment.
i d=240429) entitled "Microsoft to promote open-source software in Japan". This time, they are promoting their "Shared Source Initiative". Which we all know is *not* the same as open source.
There is no discount, people. ZDNet had the story under a similar headline (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-975399.html) with the misleading headline of "Microsoft targets defectors with discounts". If you read that article, it becomes clear that Open Value is an extended payment plan for bad old Licensing 6. Aside from stretching your payments out (thereby "lowering" them), you pay the same money as Licensing 6 plus interest, and have all the wonderful disadvantages of Licensing 6. The only discount at all is a potential 0% financing you might get if you drag your feet and throw a screaming temper fit. Licensing 6 saves you money (only in Ballmer's head) while it costs you more (minimum 33% to 107%).
The people they are targeting are the 66% of their customers smart enough not to fall for Licensing 6. Don't fall for this either, unless your only objection to Licensing 6 was the lack of a payment plan with an interest escape clause based on your temper throwing skills.
As for Microsoft promoting Open Source, that was the subject of an article by Japan Today (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=4&
I don't know whether Microsoft is purposely sending out a lot of misleading press releases or we have had a really bad press day today, but that sure is a lot of misinformation being spread for just one day. Just goes to show, you can't believe everything you read, especially if it is based on an MS press release.
Chief Tsujimori: "I won't let you get away. I will never let you escape."
Godzilla elegantly lifts his tail skyward to give her the "finger", crashes it down on the water, and submerges.
"Godzilla X Megagiras", 2000
Why wasn't Microsoft split again? It seems since this whole trial got done, they're now twice as evil as they used to be.. Everything they do is based around their Windows OS profits.. They can lose billions on giving away XBoxs to destroy the console industry into nothingness, they can buy out whoever they want made them stop making software so they can use their own.. They can give away everything for free that other companies are trying to make a profit on to drive them out.. It's a load of BS. It needs to be stopped.
A) They're not trying, they're doing. (Thanks, Yoda ;) ) ;)
B) They're not "getting around" it, they're just ignoring it.
C) This is nothing new...
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Nothing new here. Bill Gates will take as much money as you are dumb enough to give him.
Of course, you should give to Microsoft. It's kind of like a charity that benifits people in India with aids. Bill Gates and mother Therisa were good friends you know. Also benifited are the children of the USA! Previous previous licensing deals and last summer's anouncement to end accademic discounts tell the whole story of the gift that keeps giving.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Really goes to show how dumb you are...
Almost any huge company employs similar tactics when trying to win customers over from or keep current customers from switching to another vendor. As someone else mentioned, IBM does this with Oracle, HP with Dell, and vice versa and across many industries. It's nothing new. As far as a company claiming to be considering switching to Linux, it's like a game of poker- sometimes people bluff, sometimes they don't; sometimes their bluff is called, sometimes not.
It may sound too simple to you, but trust me- MS won't be fooled if some kid calls them up on the phone and says "Hello!!!1 I am pretty good haker and I was thinking of swichz0ring to Lindows OS you better give me VisualWarezStudeo.NET and WinXP (p stands for porn EHEHEH) for only $30 or else I will sooooo go to Leenucks!!"
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
Back in high school, every computer in the entire building was running Windows 98.
Hah! Back in my high school, every computer in the building was running a BASIC interpreter, which we could type programs to over a 1200 baud teletype. Did I mention there was only one computer, and it occupied the entire building?
Edith Keeler Must Die
I'm not willing to pay $99 for beta-open-source-software [especially considering the high quality of many other distros]
M$ knew this would make a stir but did not want to advertise any of those other distros. How many people do you know who even know what a distro is, much less can name several. M$ is pointing toward what it gathers is the least attractive alternative as a making themselves look better. They would never point them toward Debian, Red Hat, Suse, Caldera, Mandrake, Net/Free/OpenBSD. What they are pointing them to is a "discount" distro sold at Walmart that's doing everything it can to look and act like windows.
It does not matter. The cat's out of the bag and Microsoft is gonna get it. They really have pushed people too far and been, well, evil. They, not the government nor Slashdot nor the mass media, proved their nature with EULAs and pricing. Good riddiance M$.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
However, my family uses Windows. Most of my friends use Windows. Have I mentioned Linux? Of course. Have I forcibly converted them? Absolutely not.
Don't get me wrong -- Linux evangelization is a great thing. People should know that better software exists. But I simply don't understand the rationale of people who want to see Linux on everything. Frankly, I like Linux the way it is (was) -- almost an 'elite club' of computer geeks. I'm not implying that we shouldn't let people use Linux, or that we should keep it a closely guarded secret. I just don't see why we think that my grandma should run Linux -- yes, it can be very easy to use. But what does it matter if she runs Windows or Linux? Her box came with Windows, and it still runs Windows. Today, if it came with Linux, it might run Linux, but if it came with Windows, it would also run Windows.
The point of this lunatic diatribe is this: I think we should 'evangelize' Linux to some extent, but we should really rethink the "Linux on everything!" approach -- do we really want millions of people using Linux? (Applogies if this sounds like a troll, or some sort of insane rant... But I'm trying to pose a serious question.)
________________________________________________
suwain_2
I don't know of any large enterprise that is worth dealing with for Microsoft would actually use Lindows.
/etc/passwd remoteserver:/etc'), not enough clustering and fault tolerance support, poor choices for centralized management, etc.
When you care about your business, you don't buy a crescent wrench to use as a hammer. Any business in their right mind that relies on Microsoft software is going to run that software on Windows.
I wonder if this article was written by an armchair Linux enthusiast with the ever infamous penguin tunnel vision. Linux is great for workgroups and closets, and it absolutely sucks in the enterprise. No decent distributed user store (OpenLDAP is NOT decent for production enterprise environments, nor is 'scp
Well, let's see. Microsoft first drove Digital Research's superior DOS to near-oblivion by allowing IBM XT buyers to choose MS-DOS for free or to pay for DR DOS via a very low priced bundle deal (read nearly free) with IBM.
When GeoWorks had a workable competitor to 16-bit Windows, MS had nearly-free DOS/Windows bundle deals with almost every OEM.
When MS charged for IE, before Windows 95, and Netscape troubled them, they incorporated it into the OS, so it was free as in without extra cost.
Intel is doing the same thing. When the heat was still on them just after their favorable anti-trust judgment, they allowed AMD to gain almost 5-per cent market share. Now that the heat from the Feds is off, and the heat from the investors is up, they are disallowing AMD market share by dropping prices so low AMD has to sell at a loss.
Every monopolist does this.
__
I have seen war. You will not like it.
Why should I care if my OS costs $200 or $100 or $0. The price is small compared to the length of time that you use it.
/.
Its more about ease of use, if the OS is difficult to set up and maintain, why would I use it just to save a few $.
That's why I use Linux, not because it saves me a $100, but because I find it annoys me less than windows.
I am much more productive with Lunix, that's why I have all this free time to post meaningless stuff on
...Microsoft shall charge each Covered OEM the applicable royalty for Windows Operating System Products as set forth on a schedule, to be established by Microsoft and published on a web site accessible to the Plaintiffs...
The Plaintiffs were the USDOJ. I am a US citizen and they were acting on my behalf, therefore I am a plaintiff. I want to see the price schedule.
Any lawyers out there looking for a challenge?
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
Considering the fact that they have cash reserves that would make god blush, I doubt it's gonna happen any time soon.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Virtual PC runs Windows.
Not quite the same. When the post above talked about Windows compatability, he meant Linux is able to be compatible with Windows without the permission of Microsoft.
That is the crucial difference. There is one reason, and one reason alone that Bill Gates is the richest man in the world, and that's because Microsoft is in the driving seat. They guard all the doors, they hold all the keys. If you want to do anything with your computer, you have to pay the gatekeeper the toll.
This is what keeps Microsoft in power. So when you say, "the Mac is Windows compatible", I say, sure, but it's the wrong sort of compatability. What has happened on Linux is that the keys have been cloned and alternative doors have been constructed. What has happened on the Mac is that it's simply approaching the Microsoft doors from a different direction to normal.
At the end of the day, if MS wanted to stop the Mac being "Windows compatible" tomorrow, it could. It'd pull Office, IE and the next service pack for Windows would suddenly no longer work in Virtual PC (or they'd buy out/cripple/put out of business whoever makes it) and the EULA would say you're not allowed to run Windows in a PowerPC virtual machine or something. Most of the Macs Windows compatability requires Microsofts approval to operate - for apps (the most important) you must pay for Windows, for Office compatability everybody buys MS Office.
I'm not even going to go into the difference in quality of experience when you run Office in Virtual PC vs Office in Wine/Crossover (hint: crossover works best).
It's called competition... and now it's saving M$ customers some hard-earned money. Attention $heep: take your "savings" from lowered OS costs and realize that's how much you have been sheared all these years as M$ has driven DRDOS/Novell/OS2/BeOS from the market...
As one of my friends who groks economics puts it, the first benefit of being a monopoly is that you can charge monopolistic prices, q.v. the 700% profit margins on Windows and Office. The links for those articles have already been posted, and I will not repost them. I think that the fact that Microsoft has to lower prices in response to Linux is one more piece of evidence of Linux's legitimacy as a competitor to Microsoft.
I am preaching to the choir, but so what.
Maybe by the time Longhorn comes out it'll be sitting on the shelves at Fry's for $74.99. Of course, Linux will still be cheaper, and come with more software (the hypothetical Longhorn is not expected to come with Office, IIS, etc)
The surprising thing is that this still results in a surprisingly high profit margin: say on a $100 sale they have an 85% profit margin, that means that the product cost them $15. If you cut the price to $50, then the profit margin is ($50-$15)/$50= 70%.
Now granted, that's a 70% slice of a smaller pie, but they're still nowhere near losing money on a 50% price cut. They'd have to drop the price by 70% to get to a 50% profit margin. ( the profit margin drops almost asymptotically as you approach $15)
There is still, however, the question of whether these price cuts fit within the DOJ consent decree. I too would like to see an opinion on that question.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
what if xxx CEO states "we're currently contemplating upgrading our computer infrastructure. We are running some studies and are contemplating thee benifits of Linux as a possible replacement for windows."
this isn't a very good strategy at all on MS's part. Have a standard competiive price. If they see the competition is lower priced, price there or close. All this does is encourage CEO's to "think" they want Lindows, and then get steeply discounted MS products.
what happened to spell check? please decode the above comment to your best ability.
Since many businesses shall be tempted to try to obtain a discount by playing like they're seriously considering Linux. In playing this, some of them might actually consider it the first time and even get charmed by the idea (discounts from MSFT or not).
Also, the message that MSFT sends with this (now publicly known) policy is that they consider Linux to be an extremely dangerous competitor. This must put some companies to think.
To elaborate, and if memory serves me, which it does not do very well these days...
The definition for division is not defined independently-- division is defined as the inverse of multiplication. When you compute c=a/b, you are saying "find me a number c, so that c*b=a".
So when you compute 1/0, you are saying "find me a number x so that 0*x=1". Since any number multiplied by 0 is 0, no such number exists. So if memory serves 1/0 is said to be "undefined"
However, when you computer 0/9, you are saying "find me a number x so that 0*x=0". Now any number x can fulfill this condition, so 0/0 is said to be indeterminate
I believe that if you have a high school algebra problem where the answer comes out to n!=0/0 you can stop and answer "undefined" but if the answer comes out to 0/0 you still need to do some work to arrive at the final answer.
My god, I still remember this. I'm amazed and shall buy myself a beer.
Does this mean your Grandma is going to be hanging round the local LUG and submitting kernel patches any time soon? Not likely. Is it going to stop you from running Slackware with the latest development kernel, the CVS DRI version, a leaked beta of Quake VII running under the daily snapshot of WINE and the custom voice recognition project you're working on (Grandma's fingers are getting a bit arthritic, after all)? No. Is Grandma's Linux desktop going to affect yours one iota. No - except the money the grandmas of the world pay to Redhat and the like will support a whole lot more software development that you'll be able to take advantage of, and will ensure that hardware manufacturers get with the program and make sure their gear works under Linux.
So, yes, Linux (or more to the point free software) on everything helps you, and it helps Grandma, and isn't going to stop the 'elite club' from existing.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Neat! How'd you do that? Every time I attempt to divide by zero I get a Blue Screen of Death! :)
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
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Bzzt! Sorry dude, thanks for playing. If you don't remember the Clinton era, he was 0wn3d by corporate types too. DRM? Remember the Clipper Chip? That began when Clinton came into the White House. The Democrats and the Republicans are both equally manipulated by big business. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
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A few decades ago, shrewd customers made sure there was always an Amdahl mug sitting somewhere in the room when IBM came to call.
Seems as if there is, at the very least, an opportunity to sell some Linux Journal subscriptions and Tux merchandise to Microsoft shops, if for no other reason than to have strategically visible when Microsoft comes around to negotiate license terms.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
What else is there besides Lindows? Well, a couple weeks ago I saw a demo of Xandros at a local college, and it blew my socks off. I just wish it would run Lotus Notes ver 6 (and supposedly they're working on getting it to install and run now) and I could start deploying it at work in lieu of Win 9x/NT4/2k right now since it'll run every other one of our core business apps (O2K, Oracle Forms stuff, other various Win32 apps). SuSE has already announced a similar project in the works and I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear if RH and Mandrake have a similar project in the works too.
2003 is going to be a very exciting year for Linux.
I have not (yet) been targeted by the BSA folks, but if/when they call, here is my response:
We have been quietly migrating most of our servers to Linux, and we are evaluating a Linux desktop as well. When our CFO gets wind of the cost of complying with your little "audit", he will hit the roof. When the friendly folks in the IT department offer OSS products and the CFO evaluates the savings, Microsoft in our company will be DOA. If you're serious about auditing us, do it quickly. Otherwise, there will be no M$ products to audit.
If threatening to switch is what triggers the new M$ discounts, I figure it would be a suitable prescription for the BSA headache as well.
there is no thing
what else could you want?
I'd imagine that some of this is still in *cough* support contracts, add-ons, etc etc.
Of course, that's often how many linux systems get money, that and donation.
Microsoft support is about as strong as a bra with a broken strap - phorm
Job isn't in their market and it doesn't interest him in the least.
M$ is starting to see defection to Linux and resistence to their subscription schemes, flat or negative PC sales as good enough is good enough for users.
It doesn't help sales that all of the bells and whisles M$ is bundling into the OS are things that businesses definitely don't want their employeer playing with at work and most PCs are owned by corporations.
People are scared to upgrade even more than they are of getting viruses. As Linux gets more respect for security and M$ slowlky strangles users' machines with unused feature-itis the desertions will accelerate.
Since M$ has always assumed that revenues would always grow and all of their financial planning is based on this fallacy. Meanwhile hardware sales are in replacement mode (flat) and upgrades are meeting solid walls (negative territory.)
Revenue will crash at some point and M$ has no real assets compared to manufacturing companies. The X-Box is a money loser. Their partnerships are non-producing. The competition is getting tougher. Users are getting fed up. The economy sucks and price points are getting too tight to keep a resource hog like M$ in business. All things being equal, like admin costs... Linux is free acquisition.
When the end comes, it will be stunningly quick.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
But if Microsoft starts actually losing money, Bill Gate's valuable stock would become worthless. So they'll rather dump XBox/MSN/WinCE than let that happen.
XBox was sold only about half as often as expected by Microsoft - at a higher loss than expected. Keeping WinCE is debatable because it's reasonably successful, but dumping XBox is kind of a nobrainer.
I think Microsoft's efforts ultimately are futile. But, nevertheless, they are trying hard: Palladium, proprietary media formats, proprietary document formats, exclusive distribution agreements, non-PC hardware (X-box, Mira, TabletPC, PocketPC, etc.) are all attempts at excluding open source. Add to that some heavy political lobbying, PR, monopolistic practices, campaign contributions, and who knows what other sleazy efforts. With that, they have had some modest short term successes.
On a related note, Linux cut prices again. For everyone.
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Score 3? For what? Being wrong, at length? - smirkleton
A company you do business with has been forking you over a barrell on price, the instant that they realize you found something less expensive, they drop their price.
What amazes me, is that after KNOWING you've been forked over a barrel for months, years, DECADES, you go back to that vendor with open arms.
Speaking from experience. I am a technical sales specialist. We come in with our LIST price and it's LESS than the competitor is giving them. They just go back to the Competitor who drops it to 2% below our LIST price and they think they got a deal.
Un-Forking believeable.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
2003 is going to be a very exciting year for Linux. Someone get up and whack the turntable... this record is stuck.
OK, that's fair, every year someone will delcare it the next year the year Linux "reaches the mainstream." For some people it was 97, for others it was '93. That's because different people understand at different times. Most people understand that M$ is an illegal monoply and uses their position to crush other makers of software. Sooner or later they understand about free software and realize that no one needs traditional closed source software vendors. It usually happens when the user gets aquainted with free software then understands it's better than the stuff they have been paying for. Every year that passes when free software does not become universal is amazing to them.
Yet, every year has been exciting. Each year new projects are born, improve and mature. Each year brings amazing new tools. More organizations see the benifits and convert, Schools, Banks, Government Offices. The word is moving slowly, but surely.
It's always fun to play with you, Sheldon. You are always so offensive, yet harmlessly clueless.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
50% discount? Congratulations you will only pay a 350% markup. Gouge them at cost price, and it's about 13% that you should pay, or 87% discount. Of course, this only has an effect if everyone gets that same discount.
Now, I'm probably about to go off topic. And I am not proclaiming to be absolutely right, or that this is *the secret to making money* and I am not some sort of left wing/right wing/nazi (no offence to those who are) but there's a lot of businesses that practice these principles - maybe even you. The 'ancient art of war' for making money goes like this:
Why do this? Well, if all your costs are fixed, and you make $1 extra in revenue, then that is pure profit.
Think of your employer as a customer for a while. The equivalent, from your perspective, to what most software companies currently do (sell upfront, support @15%) would be to take $150K upfront and get $7.5K per year to work for 3 years - assuming a salary of $50K. Now, I would take that in a second for the same reason I buy lottery tickets for cash value. The time value of money. With a few choice equivalents to the EULA ;-)
But for software companies, they expect -and want- people to come back and buy again. The equivalent for you is that you *want* that company to 'hire you/pay you multiple times' during that 3 years and then at the end of the 3 years. IE, you could earn multiple salaries during the period and get hired all over again at the end of the 3 years. But of course, from the company's perspective, in the meantime, the sales people have b/s'ed the customer to get their commission, the professional services people have screwed things up and the product group doesn't deliver. What do you do in a similar situation? The analogy to the company again? You get fired. And you can bet that you can't keep that money as *you* weren't 'fit for purpose'. The company is going to hire someone else.
Now, there's a fair bit I didn't spell out here clearly, because it makes me sick that the easiest way for MS to bulletproof strategy is to post something on /.
But if you can turn MS' fixed costs into variable costs...
this.end_of_rant();
author.do_beer_refresh();
So does Anonymous Coward have good karma?
Darn it, I saw good posts about what Microsoft agreed to/didn't that could have used a vote or two. (They might have got them by now, look for others.) I'm good with a quip, and I'm pretty good with informative and interesting too when I deserve it. I'm not asking for moderators to be harder on me (because sometimes I'm the AC you don't know "Trolls? CUT! CUT!" :^) but I'd urge moderators to avoid "pile on votes".
If you thought it was funny, and several other people previously thought it was funny, it's funny, no problem. But are you voting because it's more visible after those previous funny votes? (Replace funny with whatever.) Just think about it a bit more is all that I'm asking.
And before anyone asks me, I have no idea. Sometimes funny is the easiest, and sometimes definitely not. A tip: Clippy jokes if done right, will score points right now. I don't know why.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Perhaps none of your friends are using OpenOffice.org, but when you look at the rest of the world, especially the sectors that pay for MSOffice, like Governments etc., you will find a lot that are seriously looking into using OpenOffice.org. There are very few individuals left on this planet who have not, at some point or another, been fucked hard my Microsoft. There are even less organistations. At some point after the Windows95 launch, Microsoft lost respect for their customers. Paying customers usually don't like to be treated as pirates and enemies. This drives people to look for other solutions. The EU, for example, is looking into formally standardising on the OpenOffice.org file format.
You'd be amazed how much you can see when you pull your head out of your ass.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
In other words, yes this makes MS more competitive, but by cutting their per unit profits. Due to the size of the market share they already have, they aren't likely to increase their sales volume much, so the net result is likely a cut in overall profitability if many enough customers start pushing for these cuts.
Isn't dropping your prices a fairly normal way to deal with increased competition: supply and demand and all that? A couple of weeks ago we were complaining that MS's margins were too high. Now we're complaining that they are cutting their margins...
Sure, they are doing it selectively, but, if they did it across the board, it would really be bad news : does anyone think that Corel or anyone else could compete with XP Office for $50? That's cheaper than Star Office 6 in a box. And this is exactly what will happen if open source ever starts to dent their desktop market share.
Note in passing that breaking up MS would have made things worse in this respect, as the highly profitable OS and Office departments would not even had to carry the loss-making departments anymore, so they could slash prices even lower and still make a respectable profit.
The postings about Linux for $0 are funny, but miss the point that no OS change is free for a company with existing staff and data. If you take discounted MS products and set them against free Linux products plus the number of man hours needed to reskill your staff, the figures are closer than we might like to admit.
Virtually serving coffee
cheap bytes has a copy of "pink tie" linux which is the redhat iso's burned to disc for you. these cost $7.00 and you can install them on as many computers as you want:
pink tie
if you are in the united states, it looks like shipping is $5.00. so you can essentially get redhat for $12.00 for as many computers as you want. if you have some friends you can each chipin and bring the cost down to $4.00 per person. while this cost is greater than zero, to businesses this is what would be called essentially zero.
-- john
Hah! Back in my high school, every computer in the building was running a BASIC interpreter, which we could type programs to over a 1200 baud teletype. Did I mention there was only one computer, and it occupied the entire building?
Hah! Hah! back in my high school every computer in the building was an ABACUS, which was operated by a student! We had to simulate the ALU of a CPU by arranging desks in the gymnasium (which was actually just a big cave beyond the river) - we would perform a binary addition and have to SPEAK to the person near us on the "BUS" with the result. It would take HOURS to add to long integers... and, due to the advanced Telephone Effect (tm) - there was a 99% error rate - we had to perform the calculation hundreds of times before we could be certain of the result...
We did this all without shoes in the snow, uphill both ways.
Bah! IC based computers running on electricity - we WERE THE CPU && ELECTRICITY!
clock cycles? shit, we could only process on the leading edge of the SUN!
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