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MS Asking Makers of 'Windows' Software To Rename
An anonymous reader writes "Today WebWereld is running a story (http://www.webwereld.nl/nieuws/13347.phtml) on Microsoft's attempts to stop other software makers from using 'Windows' in their names. Several software makers that are listed on the Lindows-list (http://www.lindows.com/lindows_home_list.php) have received a letter from Microsoft's lawyers. Basically Microsoft asks them to stop using the word 'Windows.' Windows Commander and Windows Spy have changed name as the result. Christian Ghisler (of Windows Commander) changed the name into Total Commander and Sureshot changed the name of Windows Spy into Farsighter.
Alexander Tchirkov of Windows Backup Wizard also received a letter from Microsoft, but he is not willing to change the name of his software, he tells WebWereld. 'I received a letter from attorneys Microsoft (SEED Intellectual Property Law Group) with the recommendation to change the program name into Backup Wizard for Windows(R).' Tchirkov says Windows is not a registered trademark in Russia."
How about X Windows?
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The problem is that the word 'Windows' can be used for those transparent panes of glass. I suggest we rename them to "Gates Holes" as in The microsoft building has HUGE Gates Holes.
Joel "Windows" West
... for creating a non-unique product name. If they want to control branding, then they better make sure to label the product "Microsoft Windows", or next time they can be a bit more creative.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Microsoft has a point. These companies are selling their products by the customer association with "Windows", Microsoft Windows. Of course, it's rather DUMB of them to do it, as when walking through a software store, seeing a bunch of programs marketed as "Windows This" "Windows That" creates a mindset in the consumer that Windows has a lot of programs running for it. Just like we have KOffice, KCalc...or GProducts.
"Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested." (LT 2004)
Okay, that was a bit troll-ish, but really... Windows? It's a very common word, Microsoft. I remember when WIndows first appeared and I saw the name/logo. I thought, Yeah, that's about right. Such glaring uncreativity from the business app company. Windows. Uh huh.
Then it got scarier. Word. Office. Money. Microsoft's penchance for naming software after everyday items seems to have the subtext of usurping those items. Who hasn't had this conversation in a modern workplace?
"My office is really messed up, I've got to fix it."
"Your Office or office?"
"Huh?"
"MS Office or your real office?"
Totally asinine.
Did anything ever happen with the Lindows challenge to this practice?
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
I remember in the run-up to the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. The Atlanta Olympic Committee (AOC) was going after people aggressively. You just about couldn't even say "Olympics" without a license. There was some old family-run Greek restaurant, called The Olympic Diner (or somesuch) and they had been around for years. Of course, they hadn't _trademarked_ their name and the AOC made them change it.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
This reminds me of the case of MS against numerous local double-glazing companies (formerly known as 'Colorado Windows', 'Joe's Windows' and 'Windows Windows Windows').
The outcome of that case actually resulted in a proposal to Merriam-Webster to introduce a new alternative spelling of 'window' to 'whindow'. The M-W took up the offer as they like to change any words possible from British English for superiority reasons.. so now if you look it up, you'll see 'whindow' listed there.
mogorific carpentry experiments
If only Microsoft would send their lawyers after those WinFix spammers...
-------
Warning: Slashdot may contain traces of nuts.
These people have it coming! :-)
Try NetBSD... safe,straightforward,useful.
AFAIK, they got turned down flat for a preliminary injunction in the Lindows case. With the judge expressing doubt that "windows" was a term that could be trademarked. So are these letters not an extra judicial effort to obtain by intimidation what they have been denied in court? If so, does it constitute contempt? Anyone have an informed opinion?
If they had tried that before the Lindows case, they might have had a leg to stand on. But the judge's findings in that one do not bode well for MS. I'd say, stuff'em.
But does anyone doubt that the software in question is playing off the Microsoft Windows brand and mark ? I'd understand the argument if the software described did things totally unrelated to MS Windows, but I bet (without actually looking up these products) from the sounds of their names that their functionalities are intimately related to MS Windows.
As for whether or not Windows is a registered trademark in Russia or not, I have to say I'd be very, very surprised if it is not. And if it isn't , then someone in Russia ought to go and register that trademark NOW. In fact, it makes me wonder why the Russian programmer in question wouldn't register the trademark if only to protect HIS mark.
Come on Slashdot editors, the whole reporting-on-M$'s-every-move thing is getting REALLY old now. Do you realise that the people who are capable of thinking for theirselves are generally rolling their eyes at almost every headline posted? Why don't you try being a little less biased, and maybe we won't think you are all whining geeks. Sure, nothing wrong with being a geek, as long as you embody some of the positive qualities rather than all of the negative ones.
Moderators: Mod me down all you like, but perhaps a better use of your time would be to reply with constructive criticism.
If your product does something useful, people will associate any name you choose with the functionality of your product. Just because your product runs on Windows or is written in Java, you should not feel that you should include the word in the title. Just because your software is an FTP client, you don't have to name it JoeFTP.
Naming your product similarly to another project piggy backs on their efforts. I would rather have my stuff stand on its own merits. Naming after functionality, platform, or language can later be limiting if you ever want to expand your functionality or port it to other platforms.
Posted by Hemos on Friday, November 29, @7:32PM
from the 500-pound-gorilla-named-Steve dept.
Clevername writes "It's not like we didn't see it coming. Micro$oft has apparently decided once again that all our Windows are belong to them. This time they're attempting to stop the use of the word Windows in all software packages but their own. This has affected such software packages as Total Commander (nee Windows Commander) and Farsighter (nee Windows Spy). When will the madness end? Another reader pointed us to this list of potential targets. Will I have to start getting Microsoft's prmission to rennovate my house?
( Read More... | 4 of 330 comments | Your Rights Online
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Friday, November 29, 2002 - Microsoft has asked manufacturers of software with the name 'Windows' to choose a different name.
by Maarten Reijnders
This appears after a quick tour along the manufacturers of software listed on the lindows.com site. The makers of 'Windows Spy' and 'Windows Backup Wizard' received a letter from Microsoft's lawyers, as they confirmed to WebWereld.
Earlier, the maker of 'Windows Commander' had changed the name of its program into 'Total Commander'. He did so after having received a letter from Microsoft's lawyers.
The Russian maker of 'Windows Backup Wizard' decided not to conform to the request he received from Microsoft in July. Alexander Tchirkov of Windows Backup Wizard: "I received a letter of Microsoft's lawyers with the recommendation to change the name of my program into 'Backup Wizard for Windows(R)'."
"I am not planning to change the name of my program. But Christian Ghisler (maker of Windows Commander, MR) had already been forced to change the name of his software, so anything is possible", says Tchirkov who points out that Windows isn't a registered trademark in Russia.
Software manufacturer Sureshot, however, did decide to change the name of the program 'Windows Spy' into 'Farsighter'. "Microsoft appears to possess the term 'Windows'", Jon, of Sureshot, sighs.
Windows Commander, Windows Backup Wizard, and Windows Spy are mentioned on a list composed by the manufacturers of the Linux-based operating system Lindows. The company plans to use this list in a juridical procedure that Microsoft has started against Lindows.
Microsoft believes that 'Lindows' is too similar to 'Windows' and demands therefore that Lindows stops using that name. In March, the judge ruled that Lindows is allowed to use the name until the final decision of the court.
Since the list at Lindows.com was published, it appears that not only the names of Windows Commander and Windows Spy have been changed, but also the ones of Windows Network Booster and Windows Personalizer 2000. At least, the programs are no longer available at their original name at Download.com
Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
"Tchirkov says Windows is not a registered trademark in Russia."
Heh.. I hope he doesn't plan to ever come to the US :)
Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me
Besides lots of thigs run on windows besides software. Windex runs on windows, bird shit runs on windows.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
The name Windows Backup certainly gives the impression that it might be produced or sanctioned by MS (as THE Windows Backup Wizard or some such) even though MS isn't in the habit of calling things "Windows Doongle Dongle".
First off, this isn't a generic use of the word "Windows" and saying so is really stupid. Similarly, I surely hope I wouldn't be able to call my new product "Sun Network Management Administrator" (even though sun is a dictionary word). I would expect to be able to sell "Sun Dishwasher Liquid" (although that would be a poor name for a network management system) or to make a movie called "Solaris".
They may not be able to win, as (as other's have pointed out) I don't know that they have a trademark on the word "Windows". Either way, in the "spirit of the law", this is a reasonable request. The suggested alternate name is a perfectly reasonable compromise (it's clearer, too), and I'd suggest that they don't want to switch to it specifically because they want to continue getting goodwill off of their current name and/or get free press.
And don't bother telling me MS is evil - in this case that would be a real strong signal of a dull, well-rutted mind.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Window, huh?
I don't understand why these smaller companies don't just stand up to Microsoft and take them to court. I mean, I think the Department of Justice and various states demonstrated pretty clearly that all you need to go up against Microsoft is millions of dollars and a small army of lawyers. If you don't believe me, or squeak something about DOJ not really being successful, consider "little guy" Sun Microsystems, who sued over Java.
More seriously, this is getting ridiculous. I can understand Microsoft wanted to protect its branding -- names like Lindows are meant to draw people away from MS Windows -- but they're just bullies.
You know, a real solution would be for someone to come up with a new metaphor, or paradigm.
But I'll never cave to this intimidation! See, I've bared a Window® into my soul. This is our Window® of opportunity to take a stand against this Window® dressing. It's our Window®
Damn, it's getting stuffy in here, excuse me while I go open the f*cking Window®.
As any avid /.er knows already, we can from here on out refer to any incarnation of Windows (software, automotive, or building portal) as a "security hole."
"Dear ___,
Please cease and desist the use of the phrase "security hole" as this is a registered trademark of the Microsoft corporation. As is well known throught the international community, we make the biggest and best security holes, and wouldn't want people to confuse your small, easily fixable holes with our more presigious, gaping security holes (heretofore refered to as "new features" and/or "Outlook") in all of our software products.
Thank you for your time.
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
Company A contacts company B and says "you can't use the name X for your product, we suggest you use Y".
So, company B obliges....
What the fuck? Why? If X is something as generic as Windows and is not trademarked, I can use it for whatever the hell I like.
Does this mean we may not use Office, Money, Exchange etc. etc. in naming our porducts? I have an incredible itch to challenge this.
Sigged!
This is offset by the initial benefit you get when you chose it. Choose a generic non descript name and your effort to make it stick in peoples mind is MUCH harder than using a descriptive name.
Take the story we had the other day about eVISA. The Credit card organization chose VISA precisely because it was a well known word with a meaning that dovetailed with their positioning idea. IE Something that allows you to go some place with no problem. They got the benefit now live with the drawback.
Now Windows. What the F.... It was chosen because it described exactly what the program was trying to do with a metaphor that everyone understood. They reaped the benefit now they should live with the drawback, or change themselves.
Good initial names that turns on the corporation is common. Take Kentucky Fried Chicken. They now spend millions to get rid of the Fried connotation as they repositions themselves as KFC. Does that mean that using the initial name was foolish? No, They wouldn't have got to where they are without the initial descriptive name.
Same can be argued for Microsoft's Windows,
Help fight continental drift.
Windows is a generic term. It always has been a generic term and always will be a generic term. In every GUI, different frames of programs are called "windows". "Windows" should have never received a trademark in the first place, as it was generic when the trademark was granted.
Thus, no one should heed MS's demands to change their name. The Lindows case already proved the "windows" trademark was void.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Someone should dig up the old Apple vs M$ case and waggle it in court during these new M$ vs Anything-Called-Windows cases. Would be fun to watch M$ backpedal and explain their way out of their own words.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
I amd the recipient of one of these letters. Here's the deal:
I was told to stop using the term Windows(tm) in conjunction with my home improvement project. I was informed that now I have to call the items openings especially in the wall of a building for admission of light and air that is usually closed by casements or sashes containing transparent material (as glass) and capable of being opened and shut .
This has put a real crimp in my dealings with my contractor. They think I'm crazy for using such a long phrase when a common word would suffice.
Is that insane, or what?
The RIAA rushed to the artists' defense and had this to say: "Bug off".
A court battle of unprecedented magnitude and length is expected to follow as the two Titans square off.
Elsewhere in the news ...
- a worldwide shortage of lawyers is forecast for the next 5 years for obvious reasons
- Webster's dictionary is bracing itself for a legal battle with Microsoft for including some definitions of the word "Windows" other than "An inexpensive and secure computer operating system from the philanthropic people at Microsoft (All praise Microsoft!) that should by law be the only operating system allowed on any computer".
- Home Depot has been requested by Microsoft stop advertising "We Sell Windows" and are evaluating a suggestion from Microsoft that they instead advertise "Well Sell Transparent or Semi-Transparent Glass Coverings for Holes Often Found In The Sides of Buildings and Other Structures That Usually Allow The Passage Of Some Degree Of Light"
Sigs are bad for your health.
All Microsoft is doing is running a bluff. Companies do this sort of thing all the time. For example when they give you an employment contract to sign they don't tell you that you can change the contract; they try to bluff you into signing it as it is.
If the companies back down Microsoft wins. If they go to court Microsoft will eventually fold - but only after it costs the other company a lot of money. Most companies fold because they can't afford the monetary hit; even though Microsoft hasn't got a legal leg to stand on, and has lost in court every time they have tried to enforce a trademark on the word "windows".
Guess what? Not everything in life is fair. Microsoft's behavior - if you don't recognize it - is exactly that of a school yard bully. They figure they can get away with it, and so far no court has been willing to give them a bloody enough nose to get them to stop.
Trademarks like ASPIRIN and ESCALATOR are no longer trademarks because people begun calling those types of products by their trademark. ESCALATOR could still be a real trademark if people were told to call it ESCALATOR BRAND moving stairway. Since people say WINDOWS when they mean OPERATING SYSTEM, Windows is generic like the court says! Remember, Asprin and Escalator used to dominate the whole market so NOT using their name was hard... But the terms died!
;) And if it doesn't, maybe the ruling stands that it is generic!
This is a HUGE win. I wonder if Microsoft will keep pursuing this to higher courts to be told that their trademark is still generic? That's a big risk, and they may or may not.
However, they are showing they are Enforcing their trademark, which is a good way to demonstrate that they care about the trademark. Still, they might fall to something else..
WHY????? Here's the scoop: If a court declares a trademark to be generic, then it is closer to its death.
It is very simple. Trademarks like ROLLERBLADE could go to genocide when people keep saying "I'm gonna go rollerblading." That's why ROLLERBLADE has been putting ads to remind consumers these are ROLLERBLADE BRAND In-Line Skates.
when people refer to those types of products by the trademark name
then it stands to become generic. I suspect the way it happens is through courts.... That's why I suspect Microsoft might not pursue the generic argument in higher courts
So, the term Windows is now generic. YOU CAN USE IT FREELY. Microsoft used the term Windows, which is like generic already especially in windowed operating systems. However, its biggest death is that Microsoft did not use the term "Windows Operating System."
A LOT of people talk about Windows when they should be saying "Operating System(s)". Hence, Windows IS generic like the court says. THATS Why the court said it's generic, not because Windows are real glass things in real life...
Cover your eyes and click this link!
Microsoft chose to call their product "Microsoft Windows" in an attempt to get product-company association. That's fine, but they forego the ability to attack people making products called "Remote Windows" or "CacheWindows".
Oh, they'll probably make some stupid case about how the thing is close enough to cause confusion, but I have a hard time seeing a judge buying it.
May we never see th
It's kind of ugly for everyone involved. "window" is definitely a generic term for a windowing interface. When MS chose the term "Microsoft Windows", they sure as hell weren't thinking of trademark issues.
The problem is that then Lindows came out. Now, "Lindows" isn't just a windowing system -- it's an operating system, rather similar to what MS is selling. Furthermore, Wal-Mart sells these damn little boxes to people who have little computer experience and say that they have "Lindows" and are "Windows compatible". There's a pretty good case for confusion there if you have an inexperienced buyer. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the Lindows people -- I think it's fair to claim that they were trying to take advantage of confusion.
So MS sues them. Probably the only justified legal move MS has made in the last decade. The judge not *only* denies the injunction, but states that "Windows" is/has become a generic term. So now Microsoft is panicking and trying to do damage control to regain control of their product name. They go after everyone using Windows to try to build up a stronger case for future trademark infringement suits. There's nothing MS would hate more than ten companies out of China selling WINE+Linux+GNOME systems called "Super Windows".
Frankly, this whole thing wouldn't have happened if the Lindows people hadn't pulled their attempt to grab a little MS market share...
May we never see th
This move on M$'s part will dilute the trade marks of all the other companies involved and confuse each and every one of us. Take the "Windows Commander" example. Christian worked for years building up a name and reputation. Can you tell me what he's changing his name to without scrolling up the page? Christian just got ripped off and his new program is indistiguishable from many other utilities that do the same thing.
Nothing new really. Do business with or have anything to do with M$ and you will be burnt.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
According to the Jargon File [tuxedo.org], it was so named because it was the successor of an earlier window system called "W".
In the beginning there was 'B', then came from it 'C'. Followed by C++, which is technically 'D'(stemming from the ++ operator).
Unfortunately an infidel has broken the 'ye olde code of law' and mistified everyone with C#. How does C# follow? Is it from C? or is it from C++?
Rather, the infidel has created a bastard language after sipping some java!
That's not a joke. The window industry's trade association is called the National Fenestration Rating Council.
selling some product called 'Hole in wall with glass'.
These are all the listings I could find for the single word "Windows" that are registered to Microsoft.
Just from a cursory look at these, it would appear that the only way you could use "windows" in reference to a computer or electronic device without fear of a cease and desist letter from Microsoft would be to say, "If there weren't windows in my computer room, I would never see daylight."
Listing 1, Listing 2
Listing 3, Listing 4
Listing 5, Listing 6
Listing 7, Listing 8
Listing 9, Listing 10
Listing 11, Listing 12
Listing 13
~Philly
IMHO, Microsoft has the full right to do this.
Sure, windows is a common word, but Microsoft isn't sueing the glass making companies.
If you owned a company - Bobsoft and made an O/S -called BobOS - which you thought was really good, would you a)protect the name from people working off your achievment or b)Give everyone free reign over the name? You wouldn't sue all people who had the name Bob, but you wouls sue people using the name in their software to make it look like your brilliant company made it.
All in all, one heck of a legal minefield...
I prefer MS Windows to Linux
The English word 'Word', when capitalized, has been associated with Jesus Christ since at least the time of King James. I doubt that even Microsoft's attorneys are dumb enough to go there... The thought of ministers preaching that they are part of some kind of Satanic machinations in response should be sufficent to keep them from pulling that one.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
These people supported that proprietary platform and tied their fates to it and -- gosh, who would expect it? -- suddenly their, ahem, "partner" is trying to ram a pitchfork up their asses! Oh yes, bite the pain!.
Several years ago, Microsoft changed the license on their NT Workstation product so that it was only allowed to have a certain number of connections. Tim O'Reilly wrote a frustrated "open letter" whining about it, and it was funny the same way this story is. All that hard work that other companies put into legitimizing Microsoft's products, only to be stabbed in the back ... what a shame (*snicker*). Unfortunately, Microsoft caved in back then. I hope that by now they are arrogant enough to fight to the bitter end.
Few things give me as much pleasure as seeing Windows developers getting screwed by Microsoft. Oh, the crushed dreams, the shattered hopes and businesses, the shocked expression of pain and betrayal, ooh, is it getting warm in here?
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
http://www.microsoft.com/trademarks/t-mark/winxp-G uide.htm
Do Not Say:
[Your Product Name] Windows xp
[Your Product Name] XP
Windows XP [Your Product Name]
hmm.....now I can't legally say that I have an Athlon XP(R) CPU...nice
And defenestration is the act of throwing someone or something out of a window. Usually because I've been thrown out of Windows by a BSOD.