Class Action Filed Against Bonzi Software

An anonymous reader writes: "A nationwide class action lawsuit was filed on November 25, 2002, in the Superior Court of Spokane County against Bonzi Software, Inc. Bonzi is among the world's most prolific issuers of internet advertising banners. Bonzi's website has been ranked as one of the most frequently visited websites in the world. In case you are wondering Bonzi is the company responsible for those irritating popup ads which say things like 'Your computer is broadcasting an internet IP Address...' and 'Your internet connection is not optimized ...'" The attacking lawyers provide some samples of the ads they say are misleading.

Comments

Good idea

[quintessent]

I always hated those ads. Not because I ever clicked on one. But they made me think, if my mom saw one of those, she'd think it was a Windows message and click the Ok button.

Re:Good idea

[global_diffusion]

Yep. Just the other day I watched a sysadmin talk down a user who was freaking out over his computer not being safe for the internet. It was quite sad.

Re:Good idea

[z01d]

teach her how to change the windows appearance (color scheme), that's what i taught my girl friend.

Re:Good idea

[coryboehne]

I'm actually guilty of clicking on one of these... Not because the fooled me though, I just have a habit of clicking banner ads to see what kind of crap is being sold by these people.

Now, I hate banner ads (nearly) as much as the next guy.. But really, let's admit to it, the creativeness required to think up faking an error screen to get users to click on it (think reaction vs. action) is genius. I'm not sure this suit has any merit at all (IANAL although I do play one on TV) and even if it does it really shouldn't.

Just because you find something annoying doesn't mean it should be against the law, I mean if you're in a restaruant and you are going to pay $100+ for the meal and someone's baby is crying, or they are talking to loud, or even better their baby is screaming because they're talking into a cell phone instead of paying attention to their kid and at that they are talking into the phone at an unreasonable volume level. Now, should this be illegal? The short answer is no.

Compare this to Dimtri and the DMCA fiasco, all he really did was innovate and try to do something different and make a buck in the process, and for what end result? To get sued for their intended innovation in business? Although I admit there are a million differences I wanted to use a well known case for comparison, so please spare the flames about adobe e-book vs misleading (looking) ads, the point is that it was innovation that lead both people on their path.

Anyway, it might be best to think about this before jumping on the "I hate everything that has anything to do with advertising on the internet" bandwagon and attacking this person for what really only amounts to innovation gone askew.

Re:Good idea

[Jace of Fuse!]

You are right, this should not be illegal just because it is annoying. There are already laws against misleading people with advertising. Some of the pop-ups are already made illegal by those laws, and they should be strictly enforced.

The rest of them, well, we can just block those ads. :D

Re:Good idea

[quintessent]

Just because you find something annoying doesn't mean it should be against the law.

Let's argue that one another day. But these ads are not just annoying, they're deceptive. That's a serious issue.

Re:Good idea

[archeopterix]

Hurry and click on one, and get your 2 cents worth :)

Plus, if you manage to punch the monkey, you will get your 20 banana bucks!

Re:Good idea

[1u3hr]

Hurry and click on one, and get your 2 cents worth

Actually, $500 worth:

The Complaint asks the Spokane County Superior Court to award punitive damages against Bonzi in the amount of $500 per class member, as well as compensatory damages in the amount of $5.00 per deceptive advertising banner issued by Bonzi. The Complaint also seeks an order enjoining Bonzi from issuing similar Internet advertising banners in the future.

Re:Good idea

[quintessent]

Believe me, by the time it gets through the jury, judge, and attorneys, it will be about 2 cents.

Re:Good idea

[TheMidget]

Besides which, the way they work is objectionable - if the internet is referred to as the 'information superhighway', then how about a motoring analogy... a pop-up banner would be somewhat equivalent to someone bringing your car to halt / diverting it down a different road, just for the purpose that you see a particular roadside banner... would you want that to be illegal or not?

A better analogy would be billboards disguised as traffic signs... "Roadworks ahead, bypass to the right", but the "bypass" is a cul-de-sac leading to some cheesy sexshop.

Of course, if roads were Slashdot, you'd see traffic signs pointing to some hick's backyard who'd spend all day mooning passersby.

Re:Good idea

[Ponty]

You mean my computer isn't broadcasting an IP address? That really scared me. I went out and bought $3000 worth of networking hardware to create a DMZ with border gateways and traffic shapers. Every single packet has to be personally approved by me to get out of my house. Ain't no hacker gonna hack my computer!

Re:Good idea

[Iamthefallen]

So you're saying that running into a packed theatre and yelling FIRE!(in my fireplace) isn't deceptive?

Re:Good idea

[Saint Fnordius]

You're missing the "deceptive" part of the ad, name that it PRETENDS to be a windows alert. In other words, they're using trickery to get you to click on it. I'm a Mac head, so I once accidently clicked on one when I was using a friend's Win98 PC. I thought it was just a message and I just wanted to close the dumb thing.

IMO, it's the whole "false pretenses" thing. Advertisements can't pass themselves off as consumer alerts or unbiased articles, but they try. And since the print/radio deceptions get spanked, so should these bozos.

Re:Good idea

[sg_oneill]

Precisely. And if "broadcasting" means telling a webserver who wants the page then I cant see how this can be remidied.
"Hey webserver, someone wants a web page. Please disregard this however, because I won't tell you who".... Nope can't see it working.

UNLESS a proxy is involved.

And lets face it , do we REALLY want bonzi knowing every page we see via a proxy.........

Can you spot the ploy at play here?

Re:Good idea

[Ponty]

I think it's 192.168.1.54. I spent a lot of money on it and the guy who sold it to me told me that it's really prestigious and that people would know how sophisticated I was if I told them my IP address.

Re:Good idea

[operagost]

What's sad is the FTC should have stepped in here. That's what Americans are paying taxes for, and they simply don't do anything. This lawsuit will only benefit a few already wealthy lawyers.

That being said, these banners are more than misleading, they're downright deceptive. See here. Look at banner one: "Your computer is broadcasting an Internet IP [sic] address." No, broadcasting is an actual technical term for sending data to an entire subnet or network and is not part of routine Internet activity. Let's not even try to figure out how your computer could possibly communicate without an IP address. Banner three: "Your internet connection is not optimized." Since an animated GIF is incapable of analyzing my IP stack's configuration, I'd have to say this is incorrect information.

Only banner two is legit, because it says your current connection MAY be capable of faster speeds.

Re:Good idea

[aWalrus]

Good point. I think this would be akin to road billboard ads trying to pass themselves as road signs. That would surely get them in trouble real fast. Maybe computerdom should be viewed in the same light?
--

Re:Good idea

[jonadab]

> Only banner two is legit, because it says your current connection
> MAY be capable of faster speeds.

These banners aren't fraudulent just because of what they say --
although what they say is certainly deceptive as well. My most
serious objection to them is that they are deliberately designed
to look like something much more important than advertising. If
a company started putting up roadside advertisements made to look
like road construction signs, little carts with blinking arrows
made of individual lights (such as the DOT uses), and so on, in
order to convince drivers that their driveway was the next exit,
or that it was imperative to get off at their exit as part of a
detour due to road construction, would we allow that? (Okay,
Microsoft is not a government agency, but the importance of
operating systems error messages on a computer is very similar
to the importance of highway department messages on a highway.)

That the messages in these fake dialogs are deceptive is just
the icing on the cake.

Re:Good idea

[jonadab]

> the user does not perceive it to be an advertisement, but a
> compulsory upgrade.

It's worse than that. Go to a public library and watch people who
don't have a computer at home. By far and away the most common way
they follow these deceptive dialog-banner links is by clicking the
upper-right-hand corner, the part that resembles a close box.

They think it's modal. (They don't know the word "modal", or the
term "dialog box" for that matter, but that's irrelevant.) They
want it to go away, and the advertiser is deliberately harnessing
the user's desire to make it go away. That's why it's presented
as an error, rather than a positive message. The thing is designed
so that if the user tries to make it go away, they will have the
target content rammed down their throat -- obviously against their
will, since they tried to close the thing.

Re:Good idea

[Blkdeath]

Yep. Just the other day I watched a sysadmin talk down a user who was freaking out over his computer not being safe for the internet. It was quite sad.

I had to explain, very patiently, to a person that she could continue her research on old French poetry without having to worry about the 'error message' she saw in her web browser, and instruct her to ignore supposed error messages that popped into her browser window. She'd phoned the NOC in a panic, see, because 'her' Internet connection was not optimised, and this frightened her.

Of course, the fact that the connection belonged to the school (board) was of no consequence to her. Apparently it was urgent enough to interrupt me from doing ACTUAL work to calm her down (See, it was an emergency, I had to get there immediately because the computer wouldn't let her do research).

So consider this; the sysadmin who was "talking down to" this user - could it perhaps be the thirtieth user he'd had to calm down about his computer safety?

There are limits to the amount of human stupidity I can tolerate. Sorry. Companies and schools have computer use and security policies in effect; policies which are made available to the users often without them even having to ask. What do these users DO with these policies? They shove them in a drawer, or as I've seen more often than not line a bird cage with them (or circular-file them at the earliest possible convenience).

So no, I do not feel pity for the morons who've downloaded and installed this tripe. They've brought it on themselves for skimming EULAs, installing software they clearly know nothing about, and by holding out for the least expensive products and services including Information Technology - which has resulted in fewer employed knowledgeable sysadmins and more people who want to save a buck by doing "that computer stuff" by themselves, which only allows them to get bamboozled so bloody easily. Moreover, most users who contact network admins about these problems do so knowing full-well that they know MORE than (s)he does already, or they just brazenly go about doing something they don't understand without consulting anybody about it because, hey, they're smart enough to figure this out! Why on EARTH would someone be out to fool ME? The world is rosy and everybody's out to help their fellow man, after all.

Wake up, people, and welcome to the real bloody world. It's dank and people ARE out to get you. Corporations are not kind-hearted and selfless - you are but a number to them, and the only thing they want from that number is complacence and currency. The Internet is a big bad place full of crap, cruft, and do-evil types who will try to get ten year old girls to meet them for sexual purposes, who will try to get your bank account and credit card numbers from which to syphon money, and who will generally make your life a living hell. Why? Because they CAN and because that's human nature. Some people may be generally good, but a good bloody lot of them are BAD, and until people wake up to that fact we're going to see a lot more class-action suits designed to protect the willfully ignorant.

A note to every single person who's ever been taken advantage of, scammed out of money or personal information over the Internet because they didn't follow the same common-sense principles of keeping your personal information PRIVATE that people have been instituting in the "real world" for decades now;

GOOD ON YOU! I hope it HURT and I hope you HAVEN'T learned your lesson so that you KEEP getting screwed until it REALLY sinks in! I also hope that eventually you'll wake the hell up and realize that you NEED trained computer / network technicians because you don't understand the risks involved with the Internet and computer in general, or understand how to install, upgrade, or maintain one computer or a network full of computers.

You're like the people who have relatives who've died of lung cancer and mourned and greived your "loss" but decided to start smoking anyways, and perhaps held the tobacco companies at fault for your blatant stupidity. Or the people who've known people with, or who have died from AIDS or Syphyllis or any of the other hundreds of STDs out there today but who've decided that condoms are a waste of your time. Like the people who've thought they could fix their car in their driveway but have wound up paying a mechanic $2000 because you've so royally screwed your car beyond recognition - and I love it. The stupid deserve to be screwed over, not coddled. Coddling and protecting people is what CAUSES such rampant stupidity in the first place; people don't HAVE to think, because people around them will do it for them anyways.

That is all.

Too many moms in the world

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the problem is so many people think it's a great thing, and so they install it only to wonder why they're system's messed up later on.

I vote we just declare open season on these guys.

*looks around for LART*

Re:Too many moms in the world

[thomas.galvin]

This is too true.

My brother is reasonably clued-in about computers, but the last time I sat down at his box, he had a stack of pop-up waiting for his attention, a host of Windows Messenger ads waiting to be shut down, Bonzai Buddy or Gator or something crawling around his screen...I almost felt physically ill.

I like computers. They have this kind of elegance to them; they do what I tell them to, they make my life easier. But most people don't get to enjoy this experience. Most people have a little trouble understanding computers to begin with, and now folks lite Bonzai are making the experience even worse. These spyware/crapware/adware/etc are at least distracting people from whatever they are on the computer for, and at worst invading their privacy.

And possibly the worst thing is, people are being trained to except this as normal. The first time I saw something pop up on my machine, I figured out what was causing it, reformatted my hard drive, and made sure to never re-install the offending software. AdAware can't beat a good old fashioned OS Reinstall. But my brother didn't seem to think there was anything unusual about all of this garbage on his machine. TV has ads, after all, why wouldn't his computer?

You're right. Open season.

looks around for an Analog Reprogramming Tool*

*Hammer

Misleading?

[DoctorPhish]

You mean, an ad that's shaped exactly like the widget set for the most widely installed OS in the world is misleading, just because it makes people think they're clicking on a native os dialog? THAT'S CRAZY!
Seriously though, this is exactly what suing is for...making companies pay when they cross the line. Now if we can just get those misleading domain renewal notice companies strung up...

Re:Misleading?

[foo12]

I always love it when those ads pop-up on my Mac... you know, it wouldn't be terribly hard to sniff server-side for OS and deliver a customized version....

Ah shit, I've said too much.

Re:Misleading?

[raynet]

Hope you filed a patent for your idea :)

Amen

[Anonymous Coward]

It's hard enough to get my mom to use Yahoo. These windows error like popups make it even harder.

Why hasn't Microsoft gone after them for using the likeness of Windows(TM)?

About time

[NexusTw1n]

I've long been tempted to ask the UK Advertising Standards Agency (ASA) to investigate those banners.

I've lost count of the number of support calls both at work and from friends at home relating to them.

They are designed to be confused with genuine windows messages, rather than adverts, they are designed to install fear and confusion into the standard user, basically they are deliberately misleading and scaremongering adverts, which are illegal in the UK.

I hope Bonzi are bankrupted over this case.

Gotta love the BonziBuddy

[codexus]

He's so cute, he can speak and sing songs while you're trying to code, and help you in your internet searches by reporting everything you do.

Who needs friends when you can have a BonziBuddy?

Re:Gotta love the BonziBuddy

[NeuroManson]

He almost makes "Clippy" seem like a "good" thing.

IANAL, but....

[GreyWolf3000]

Since class-action suits were used to push de-facto legislation in the sixties, it became precedent to require that all class-action cases require signatures from ALL constituents that will be affected. This might just be here in Texas (I know there was trouble with school busing issues), but if it is at the national level, then signatures from all users who have been deceived would be required.

Thank God..

[xchino]

I don't know how many time I've had to deal with a customer calling up demanding to know why we are broacasitng their IP address to hackers. Not to mention stupid employees installing bonzi buddy all over their companies servers.. guess who gets to clean that cerap up? The tech, thankfully, not me..

Best PopUp I've seen

[Anacrusis]

It said I was broadcasting the IP address 243.65.42.656

It's almost as though they think we're retarded...

Re:Best PopUp I've seen

[morgus morphus]

that seems pretty clever to me... it instantly filters out all those who wouldn't fall for whatever scam they're peddling anyway, saving them the bandwidth ;)

Re:Best PopUp I've seen

[alistair]

In a similar vein, from slip-ups.com

In the movie "The Net" staring Sandra Bullock, the IP address of "23.75.345.200" is shown various times in the movie. Of course, it is impossible because "345" exceeds an 8-bit value (max=255). They should have used a 192.0.2.x address instead

I wonder if dotted quads > 255 are going to be the holywood equivelent of the annoying 555 area codes in US telephone numbers (interstingly, here in the UK Film and TV companies can get fake but genuine looking telephone numbers from OFTEL for showing on screen, so we don't have the same problem).

Re:Best PopUp I've seen

[LostCluster]

May 867-5309 enjoy a safe and happy retirement in all area codes.

From "Class Membership / Relief Sought"

[Galvatron]

Who is a member of the class, and what are they suing for? According to the website:

The class action Complaint was brought on behalf of all persons residing in the United States who have... encountered an advertising banner [from Bonzi].

The Complaint asks [for] punitive damages against Bonzi in the amount of $500 per class member, as well as compensatory damages in the amount of $5.00 per deceptive advertising banner issued by Bonzi.

Well, I gotta say, lots of luck. $500 for every Internet user in America, plus $5 for every ad impression? Certainly it'd teach these jerks a lesson, but it doesn't really seem very likely. That'd be something like $100 billion. The tobacco companies, one of the biggest lawsuits ever, only paid three times that amount, and that was spread among several companies. No way a judge is awarding this.

Who wins?

[tevita]

Is it just me, or does it seem that this is being done more as a source of income for the Lawyers, than an actual "lets remove the scurge" activity.

The big winners from this exercise will be the lawyers, surely?? And what about people who have been bamboozled who do not live in the USofA?

Re:Who wins?

[sg_oneill]

But it's dishonest suckerbucks. And to be honest, dude I think it's morally bankerupt (wow thats the second time I've used that phrase today!) to steal from the dumb to give to the smart.
Frankly , I still yearn for the days of the grey website when you could actually find what you where lookin for without having some stupid popup say "Your IP number is 192.168.0.3! You can get haxored!"
I say Bring the assholes down and lets get some integrity back in this industry.

Re:Who wins?

[walt-sjc]

This is EXACTLY about lawyers getting rich. Our broken legal system drives this stuff. That said, I think it's Very clear that this is a case of deceptive advertising. However, a class action suit is not the answer. The FTC should be the agency that goes in and fines them a couple million bucks, and forbids them from doing that crap in the future.

When you look at deceptive behavior on the net though, there are other bigger fish to fry. Interstitials for example. Isn't it deceptive when you click on a link for a news article and you get an ad instead? What about all the ads for something "free" and you find out that you need a subscription or the product is anything but free? How about endless pop-up hell (not a problem for me personally, I use Galeon)? What about all the SPAM advertising things that are obviously not true, or claiming that they are from someone else?

IMHO, the FTC hasn't done nearly enough dealing with fraud on the internet. It's not that they don't know about it or anything...

Re:Who wins?

[macdaddy357]

Bonzi can advertise without being deceptive. Tricking people with phony error messages is what this law suit is about. Deceptive advertising is illegal. Doing it online doesn't change that.

Re:Who wins?

[macdaddy357]

The FTC will not do anything, because they have no teeth. I tried to sic them on an online pyramid scheme called nexgen 3000 that conned my great uncle, but since I did not lose money, my complaint meant nothing. With Republicans in Congress and the White House, the FTC will never be given teeth, as it could then bite their big business cronies. Lawsuits are the only recourse we have. If "tort reform" goes through, we will lose our only recourse.

Re:Who wins?

[sg_oneill]

Fortunately dude, those lawyers are going to sue them. So at least that part of the world *will* work that way if the law suit succeeeds. You see, just cause something happens , doesnt make it right. Fucking over the stupid is not right. Hey what about tricking downes syndrome people with "wallet inspector" routines. That might work, but it wouldnt make it right. We are the technological literates of the world. Most people aint. And thats who the lawsuite is representing.

And as for your question of what if I was the CEO of bonzi? I guess I'd do the world a favor , settle the claim and liquidate the company.

Re:Who wins?

[Jucius Maximus]

" Who, if anyone, deserves this more than Bonzi? I say nail them to the wall. Don't even get me started on the "Bonzi Buddy" scam . . ."

"Bonzi Buddy" is a pile of steaming sh~t trojan horse program that brings up a fuzzzy purple gorilla on the screen. (It used to be a parrot in older versions.) It tells jokes, acts as an e-mail client, tries to sell you add-ons, profiles your browsing habits, etc.

The scariest part is that some people actually like this trojan horse piece of garbage.

Re:Who wins?

[cscx]

If you do like something that flies all over your screen, all it takes is installing the Microsoft Agent libraries and a few lines of VB Script (just look at the examples from their web page) and you can write your own spyware-free Bonzi Buddy.

The one with the "Message Waiting"?

[grishnav]

If they really wanted a killer example, they would show the one that says "You have a message waiting". It made it look like, indeed, you had an extremely urgent message waiting. I never did know what it led to, I never fell for it, but I can distinctly remember my mom asking me why she couldn't get the message she had waiting, and why she just got bombarded with ads. It's good that someone is finially doing something about it.

Re:hijacked?

[Vengie]

plz see definition #2 below...
www.m-w.com
Main Entry: hijack
Pronunciation: 'hI-"jak
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: origin unknown
Date: 1923
1 a : to steal by stopping a vehicle on the
highway b : to commandeer (a flying airplane)
especially by coercing the pilot at gunpoint
c : to stop and steal from (a vehicle in
transit) d : KIDNAP
2 a : to steal or rob as if by hijacking b : to
subject to extortion or swindling
- hijack noun
- hijacker noun
So yeah...if you wanna get technical, it IS "to subject to extortion or swindling"....and thus hijacking.

Its honestly about time.

[Vengie]

Does anyone remember the early porn banners that were doing this?
"Movie downloading?"
You know that something is low and bad (tm) when even the porn industry shys away from it as a form of advertising. I was surprised when I started seeing these because it harked back to earlier days of those annoying porn ads that tried to look like UI components.
I guess bonzi didn't quite catch on -- and quite frankly, its about fscking time that someone finally said, "You're obnoxious, annoying, and we've had enough!"

Re:Its honestly about time.

[Per Wigren]

The pornindustry shys away from it because it is proven ineffective! It makes people annoyed, remember their name and associate it with false advertising, and they will never sign up! The same thing with (mail/usenet) spam. Instead the pornindustry has started to spam the searchengines.. They register 200 domainnames and have 200 different frontpages to the same site..
And they have also found that the very most effective way to get people to sign up is to post high quality free pictures without fake links and popups on all of the 1000s "thumbnail gallery post"s, together with a link to their signup-page.
That is why you don't see as much porn-banners/popups/spam as there used to be a few years ago...

bonzibuddy

[sxpert]

aren't they the same ppl that created this wonder of spyware "bonzibuddy" with a little monkey character that would progressively ask you most of your personal info (including Credit Card numbers and the like) for the sakeness of "user - friendlyness" ???

You have an urgent message waiting!

[palindromic]

www.goat.. ah screw it.

If this goes through...

[JanusFury]

If this succeeds, it will set a major precedent - and in my opinion, a really good one. I'm fed up with misleading, stupid advertisements - I quit watching TV because I didn't like ads, and now that I've been away from TV for so long I can't bear to watch it for more than 30 minutes because the commercials drive me mad. I'm all for supporting websites by looking at banner ads, but shit like these bonzi ads are not only annoying, but they cause no end of trouble for me. My mother and sister not only keep asking me about them, but my sister has clicked OK and Yes on them and installed shit on my computer, and the only way I can explain it is "don't do that". I for one will be glad even if this case settles for minute damages ($0.01 per class member or even less than that would be fine for me - just kick bonzi's ass at least a little bit!)

What the fsck?

[abbamouse]

"But really, let's admit to it, the creativeness required to think up faking an error screen to get users to click on it (think reaction vs. action) is genius. I'm not sure this suit has any merit at all...and even if it does it really shouldn't."

What on earth does this mean? If the suit has merit, that means that the advertising was both deceptive and harmful. I admire a good grifter as much as the next guy, but these people are still thieves (or perhaps vandals) and that kind of shst ought to be against the law. Nor are laws against fraud the sort of bad laws (like, say, the DMCA) where a bit of civil disobedience is tolerable. There are three reasons that fraud like this (Bonzi Schemes, if you'll excuse the pun) should be illegal:

1. Harm to end users. Whether it's lost time, lost money, spyware-infested PCs, or just a general devaluation of warning messages (making their computer cry wolf...) the results are harmful for users.

2. Harm to the market. When users are confused about whether something is an advertisement, they make decisions on bad information. This rewards the wrong sort of economic behavior -- the company that can best trick people wins instead of the company with the best product.

3. Harm to society. We don't want our best and brightest to believe that the easiest way to get ahead is to steal or hurt other people. We would like them to go into productive activities that generate new wealth, not unethical and deceptive practices that siphon off wealth from others.

So yeah, if the suit has merit then it should have merit. This is exactly the kind of thing that users, the market, and society as a whole need a good set of laws to handle.

Re:Woot!

[hbackert]

I'm going to log it in my firewall, then join the lawsuit, with my logs as proof that I was deceived by these scoundrels.

You want to show them you logged them on your own firewall (probably self installed, running a hard-core version of Linux like Slackware or something similar non-intuitive), and then you fell for their stupid trick of Windows-lookalike silly error messages?

Like this:

Your honour, I tracked down their IP address using tools like nslookup and dig, entered it into my self-installed firewall running Linux using iptables, marking those packets and sending them to metalog (which if I may add, beats sysklogd hands down), so I have a proof that I fell for their ad. Here is my printout of my Gnome desktop (made with xwd and xwud and gimp just because I can). They deceived me! See!

Respectfully, I couldn't disagree with you more

[Qrlx]

Reading your comments again, I wonder if maybe you were being sarcastic...But you're saying that the scourge of deceptive popup ads is laudable because it represents some sort of "innovation in business?"

You work for Microsoft, don't you? :)

Yeah, Enron's accounting methods were very "innovative" as well. And I have a novel new take on "beach front property" for sale in Nevada.

Ihe ads in question, which I see constantly as I visit the crappy sites I for some reason go to, are *deceptive*. Like others have said, the popups are designed to look like a Windows dialog box, and trick teh n00bs into clicking them.

When you're looking at a magazine or newspaper, the ads that sorta look like articles are clearly labelled ADVERTISEMENT across the top. Sometimes in magazines you get a whole eight pages of advertising "streamed" with the regular content, but it's definitely identifiable and identified as advertising. Those "Click here to optimize your Internet connection" fakey dialogboxes are intended to decieve.

I'm actually kinda surprised Microsoft hasn't done anything about this (of course, maybe that's what the article says. I didn't read it, and I'm not going to. Nyeah.)

It's really funny, too, how pop-ups have changed over time. Soon we are going to see a lot more of the default Windows XP "clue-free blue" motif in those ads as everyone buys new computers. Really, they ought to be putting these popups in a time capsule, and in 20 years we can all laugh about the good old days with our friends we keep in touch with, thanks to ClassMates.com.

And in conclusion, I actually do hate everything that has anything to do with advertisement on the Internet. Except I kinda like the .NET ads here on Slashdot. They make me chuckle.

Re:Respectfully, I couldn't disagree with you more

[Iamthefallen]

Problem is they may not think it is an ad at all. You see an error message, click it, and get taken to a site where you can download a program that stops your IP from broadcasting address, creates faster downloads or some such, why would you have any reason not to think this program is from Microsoft? (or some other trusted vendor)

This means they won't start to distrust ads, but error messages and messageboxes, which is a bad thing and a big hassle for the average computer user.

Use a browser that can block images: Mozilla

[ChessHacker]

Well, the solution is easy. Download Mozilla 1.2 and when you see one of those pesky banners, right click it and select "Block images from this Server". Your bandwith is reduced and your eyes get a rest.

Broadcasting an IP Address

[Ratbert42]

'Your computer is broadcasting an internet IP Address...'

Am I the only person that thinks this is funny? I torture the crap out of our IS guys with it. We'll be getting to the end of a marathon meeting and I'll ask them if they finally stopped broadcasting our IP addresses for just anyone to see and connect to.

I think they're getting back at me with some weird HTTP proxy filter. For some reason, when I go to Slashdot, I see every story twice.

Re:Annoying but Hardly Illegal

[indecision]

If they want to sue over this, why not sue beer companies because you're not immediately surrounded by half-naked babes as soon as you open an ice cold Bud?

C'mon give them a break... maybe there arent any chicks there for your first Bud, by the tenth one the place is packed with stunners. It just takes Bud HQ some time to round them up and send them over. :)

indecision

God, I hate that purple Ape!

[deathcloset]

I hate everything about him!!! Just read the description of him here(I hope you are as happy as I with the CGI redirect the page forces upon the user).
the illusion of artificial life... Illusion!? WTF? Bonzi becomes more intelligent the more you browse... Just like The CIA becomes more intelligent the more they tap?
This cute gorilla is a good companion for beginners who want to explore the Internet in a fun way. For experienced Net users, it has a certain entertainment value but does not replace more professional tools.
Isn't that a weird way to end the description? It's almost like they're covering their asses or something.
At any rate, there is no concealing or withholding the pure hatred and animosity I feel for this abomination by the name of Bonzi Buddy...Blech, I spit.

I wish them luck on my system

[wowbagger]

I can just see a server running your suggestion now:

"Hmmm. Mozilla on Linux. Crap! what theme is he running. Well, I can guess it's not KDE, since he's not running Konq. But is he running Sawfish, Blackbox, or TWM95? Crux, or one of those themes from Bowie Poag?

Screw it - he's probably blocking me anyway."

Like cleaning products?

[m00nun1t]

These ads remind me a little of cleaning products ads, the ones that portray germs everywhere and you must buy new "PineOClean Deluxe Floor Cleaner" to get rid of them. I'm convinced these ads, while based on a small amount of truth, play a significant part in encouraging the germ paranoia in society.

These banners ads are the same - well, yes, strictly speaking you ARE sending your IP address, and yes, hackers can use that against you, but you and I know that in 99.9999999% of cases it's a non-issue. But your mum doesn't, nor does mine. So, they will become increasingly paranoid. And that's bad for all of us - like many of you, I make my living off the net. More paranoid = less willingess to try new things = less money spent on the net = less money for my family.

So let's sue the bastards. What the legal grounds are, I'll leave to the lawyers. That's just the reason I *want* to see them go down.

Re:Annoying but Hardly Illegal

[NeuroManson]

As described on the website, there are some people who aren't 100% computer savvy (mostly worker drones who only know enough to create an Excel document), who assume that the fake user interface is an actual system warning.

This can easily be compared to the Zimbabwe/Zaire/South Africa/etc money scam which a surprising number of people have also fallen for. After all, if they were any more knowlegable, they wouldn't have fallen for it, so it therefore isn't a crime, yes?

Or how about everyone who stupidly opens e-mail attachments, infecting their office system with Klez, Code Red, or whatever Trojan of the week is making the rounds? It isn't the fault of the folks who wrote the virii in the first place, oh nooooo, it's the fault of Microsoft and the users in the first place.

Re:Annoying but Hardly Illegal

[Martigan80]

Anybody who clicks on these things should quickly realize that they are ad banners disguised as error messages.

This is a big misconception. My own wife has been using computers for three years now and hasn't seen one untill now, and clicked it. With a bunch of follow-on adds to boot. Not eveyone surfs the internet the same way. It's like an mechanic telling a non-car savy person that the oil bad because he can smell it, and it needs to be changed now. And after they click it the damage will be done, so the mechanic will have your car jacked-up with the oil filter out.

Connection Not Optimized

[Old Wolf]

Actually, while I'm here, regarding the "Your Internet Connection is Not Optimized" message, does their software include features to disable seeing this popup once it's installed?

If you install their software and still get the "....Not Optimized" popup, then I think the lawsuit deserves to, and will, succeed.

Proliferation of scare tactics

[salesgeek]

I don't like the trend towards scare tactics in advertising. Pharmacutical companies with the "Every year 10s of thousands of people die a slow and painful death from _____... Ask your doctor if the _____ is right for you..." pitch... "Your PC is broadcasting an IP Address... hackers can use it to gain access to your computer click here for magic solution..."

It's got to stop. Using fear to generate business is just one shade of grey from coersion. I hope the lawyers clean their clocks.

$G

Bonzi "Privacy" Statement

[Anonymous Coward]

Bonzi Privacy Statement

Highlights:

"...we also collect e-mail addresses from users
who send us support mail or request technical or other help..."

"... our servers log your IP address ..."

"... we share web site usage information about visitors to our sites with such company for the purpose of managing and targeting advertisements on our sites. For this purpose, we and our third-party advertising company note some of the pages you visit on our sites through the use of pixel tags (also called clear gifs)..."

"Our sites contain links to sites other than our own. Those sites may not follow the same privacy policies as BONZI.COM."

There is no link from the BonziBuddy page to any of this information. But you'd probably expect that ;)

Along Similar Lines...

[NeuroManson]

One problem I've been wondering about with most Windows browsers (not sure about Netscape, I haven't trusted them since 4.x, and it's tendacy to completely nuke Win9x with every error): Bonzi, and CometCursor both pop up an ActiveX prompt asking if I want to install their spyware.

My question is pretty simple, why is it that the ActiveX prompt has a checkbox for "Always trust software from such and such", but none for "Never trust software from such and such", or at least a "Never ask me again" checkbox? This just strikes me as remarkably stupid. Especially since there's a lot of cleaning up one would have to do if anyone makes the mistake of checking off the "Always trust" box, when prompted to install spyware into their browser.

They don't need to know what theme you're running.

[TheConfusedOne]

The minute they see Mozilla on Linux they could just pop up one of two ads for a click:

1) MS dissed on SlashDot! Read all about it here!

2) 1337 H4x0r g1rls h3r3!!!

Deceptive advertising

[coyote-san]

Do you have a domain registered through NetSol? Have you paid your $960 advertising fee to that company yet? You know the one, it sends out an invoice once a year or so.

When I got it, I knew it was bogus (it said my ad would list me under gas stations or something like that), but it also looked like any of the other invoices my small business dealt with. Anyone not intimately familiar with my business dealings would probably have paid it without a second thought. It's only after you carefully read the entire document that you see very small print admitting that it was a solicitation, not part of an ongoing contract... although once you fall for the scam once you'll get real invoices for years.

In that case the issue isn't whether or not they can create business directories and a kilobuck for the entry. It's that their ads are literally indistiguishable from invoices without careful study or intimate knowledge of the particulars.

It the same thing with Bozo Software. The issue isn't so much the product they offer, it's the fact that their advertising is deliberately designed to be look like legitimate system messages. They stand out on Linux boxes, but on a Windows box they can fool even experienced people who don't exercise extraordinary care.

The content of the messages also tend to be deceptive. As others have pointed out, "broadcasting your IP address" is a term of art, popup ads are incapable of checking IP stack performance, etc.

Greed in lawyers and businesses can balance

[wytcld]

This is EXACTLY about lawyers getting rich. Our broken legal system drives this stuff. That said, I think it's Very clear that this is a case of deceptive advertising. However, a class action suit is not the answer. The FTC should be the agency that goes in and fines them a couple million bucks, and forbids them from doing that crap in the future.

Given that it's fraud, given that there are two options for legally stoping it, one requiring action by a department of the federal government, the other requiring action by private lawyers (both in name representing citizens) - you'd really rather have the government get big and all-responsible rather than encouraging individual initiative to pick up the slack? Which creates the more free society? Is a rich lawyer more of a threat than a powerful bureaucrat?

When Republicans urge "legal reform" it amuses me because Republicans are supposed to be in favor of leaving things to private initiative and shrinking the role of government. Of course, what most of them really seem to favor is that citizens have no recourse to effective action either via government or via individual (or group) initiative against business which have defrauded or harmed them. This is basically a transfer of the government's power to the corporations this would shield.

Given the alternatives, I'm all in favor of encouraging as many greedy lawyers as we can get into the field. As in any ecology, if one species gets all the good stuff, the ecology as a whole is degraded. But if you get different, individually greedy species into balance you can get a highly-functioning system. Having the government come in to support one greedy group (businesses) against another greedy group (lawyers) just because they're greedy throws the whole system - in which greed can balance itself out for the larger good - out of whack.

haha..

[Suppafly]

I love the image in section 4.8 of the complaint. "Cannot delete KERNEL32. The specified file is being used by windows"

hit the major news sites

[ceejayoz]

This story has hit the major news sites (MSNBC even mentions Slashdot)...

"Security alert" advertiser sued