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Linux-Powered PVR/Satellite Machine
spicyjack writes "After reading this story, I thought this submit would be appropriate. A German company called Dream-Multimedia-TV has come up with a schweet
custom box targeted for the PVR/Satellite markets. How about a machine with a 250Mhz IBM PowerPC, 2 SmartCard readers, one CompactFlash slot, UDMA66 IDE, MPEG2 support with MPEG4 (DivX) support on the way, Ethernet, LCD display, SPDIF out, yada yada yada (zipped User's Manual). Oh, and it is built specifically to run Linux. Available right now. Commence hacking!"
aieee... how cheap can they get that box for nowadays?
less than $100???
grumble grumble... when i was a kid... 64 k was a whizbang computer... 300 baud modems... acoustic... uphill, in the snow, both ways....
damn kids...
I wish I could find some good Linux PVR software, tried mythtv but its only recommended with use with a tv out and a tv set and a remote, I need one I can use on my monitor with mouse support (so I can scroll up and down with my mouse).. Plus it needs to have smooth playback, unlike mythtv, I have dual p3 700mhz cpus, and mythtv runs like a dog on them.
/dev/video0 -c 'divx ;-) low-motion' -v -p 40 -F 23 -q 100 -m mono -b 64 -t 60m savedshow.avi
Right now in linux I use "Vcr" to record tv shows, with this script:
#!/bin/bash
killall motv
killall xawtv
killall -9 vcr
vcr -g
keanmarine.com
They mention satellite service in the article, but after (albeit briefly) browsing the German website I can't tell which services it is compatible with. I happen to use Dish PVR, I would love to move to an open source option!
well then this will REALLY piss of cable companies http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/09/14 36215&mode=thread&tid=129
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... to stuff into an "up to 64MB RAM" box.
Only a 250 mhz processor and it's 499 euros which is about US $499. And this is a good thing why??
scroll up and down with my mouse should change the channels, sorry
keanmarine.com
Not wanting to dis the box at all, it looks damn cool, and I want one! But, isn't 250MHz just a little slow for mpeg4/divx encoding?
I remember reading about how, after lots of Intel tinkering, a 2GHz (ish) P4 could do realtime DivX encoding.
Maybe they'll use some specialist MPEG hardware...
Because were supposed to be good little automatons.
1) attempt to sell overpriced open source PVR that cost alot and doesn't do all that much.
2) ???
3) Profit ( which is later sucked up by cable companies and DMCA lawsuits)
How about like 9 beowulf clusters of boobies? That would be really cool. Like me.
Questions I'm sure will be answered on the next episode of 'Taken'.
try freevo, it can work quite well with a monitor & mouse. http://freevo.sourceforge.net
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That idea is just stupid. That is the worst post I've ever read, people are passing out mod points like candy these days. Go check the real first post!
TiVo already has a box like this. No, it doesn't have as many features. It's also $199.
DirecTV DVR powered by TiVo (basically a renamed Series II combo box) has a 200mhz MIPS processor, 32M of RAM, 2 tuners, hardware MPEG2 decoding, 40GB disk, USB 2.0, etc.
It's also powered by Linux.
I can see wanting to make a swiss army knife set top box because it's fun, but other than that, why would you do such a thing? I can't see a need for all of that in one unit. Period. Why not make a sleek and specialized (and cheap) box instead?
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
In Soviet Russia boobies laugh at you!
Just shut up already.
Perhaps its just a theme. I guess I'll find out on the next episode of 'Taken'.
But Decoding no. Perhaps they meant you can also watch your divx movies on the HD, along with your saved shows. I doubt your gonna find realtime divx/mpeg4 encoding around for less than 500$ total.
Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
In Soviet Russia boullion fails you!
In Russia your boobs smell bad.
Here
p 4 for the still Goat conscious
that's http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/cat/pictures.ph
It is only the remote update software...
I can't imagine it taking long for some bright spark to write a linux version.
A word of warning to any Slashdotters who are thinking this might be a nice way to get around paying for a DirecTiVo (or DirecTV DVR as I think they're calling the Series 2 ones) or DishPVR:
I've looked into building my own satellite PVR, and from what I learned, I think I can safely say that this box in all likelihood will not work with DirecTV or Dish Network. DirecTV uses its own proprietary encryption scheme which isn't supported by anything but DTV-licensed receivers, and while Dish Network uses Nagravision encryption, which is supported by some things (like Hauppauge's WinTV DBS card), they marry their smartcards to their receivers, so a Dish Network smartcard will only work in the receiver in which it was first activated unless you hack it (and even then it may not work outside a Dish Network receiver). Basically, this thing is useless unless you want to use it to record free-to-air satellite broadcasts.
I also have DishPVR. It works, it's easy to use, it's built into your receiver already. You've already paid for it and you won't be getting your money back anytime soon, and if anything goes wrong with the DishPVR, you just have to call them up and they'll replace it or fix it. So why bother spending an extra $500 on an open-source option when what you've already got and paid for works just fine?
For anyone interested in an out-of-the-box solution for PVR/DVD -> VCD, etc. Check out Sony's Vaio PCV-W102 (I think it's only available in Japan, though)
As a programmer, I like to tweak with my boxes, but this is so cool by default, I don't even want to mess with it! 1.6GHz Celeron (Could be worse!), 256MB Ram (512MB would be much better, but what the hell!), DVD/CDRW, Tuner (coax-in only, unfortunately), all-in-one integrated AV remote (however, can't use remote as a mouse, that's too bad...), memory card slot, 2 PCMCIA slots, 3 USB, 2 Firewire, Widescreen flat 15.5" display (it looks sweet!), etc. It's has Windows XP installed, but it has lots of cool-ass software for ripping music and video, so I'll leave it be.
Anyway, Cygwin now has support for rootless mode under X, so I'm running all my favorite apps (esp. Konsole!) seamlessly.
It's not a set top box, but it did completely replace my TV/DVD/VCR setup, and I'm stoked about it!
It cost me around 170000JPY at the Sony store.
I think you meant "you're" up there. "You're" is the contraction of "you are" which makes the sentence make sense, as opposed to "your", which makes the sentence sound as if you are referring to the "back" belonging to the person to whom you were writing.
Thanks, love you. Watch out for black people.
It uses windows-like controls (dialog boxes, drop-down combos, OK buttons, etc). Looks like it would be very difficult to navigate/operate with a remote control. I'd say it has a long way to go before the UI will feel as intuitive as something like a TiVo or replayTV, instead of feeling like a All-in-wonder card hooked into your TV. On the other hand, the hardware is far superior to current DVRs. At least the UI can be easily improved through patches.
I wouldn't exactly call a PVR with a 250MHz PowerPC exactly a "bad boy". Okay, so it's a PowerPC which means it runs on less power and releases less heat, yada yada yada. But still.
On an unrelated note, I wonder if PPC Linux distros would run on these things out of the box...
---
Open Source Shirts
That was a most humorous comment, because the undiscriminating reversal of the clauses plays upon our fears of the dramatically different culture of the people of the former Soviet Union.
all your base
What happened to Za Moosey?
In Soviet Russia base your all!
Does it play Ogg Vorbis?
There was a slashdot article sometime back that mentioned MythTV. Last weekend, I loaded up the debian packages (although I had to manually install xmltv since the deb packages were old) and all I can say is wow! It's been running stable for the last 4 days and I've already recorded more than 20 programs. It does that Tivo-ish time-shifting stuff which I find really cool, but somewhat useless for my purposes since I use MythTV mostly for recording stuff. Plus, it's got a pretty nice web interface so I can still start the recording even when i'm away from the computer.... (just by accessing the mythweb frontend through apache/php)
So far it allows you to use two codecs (nuppelvideo and mpeg4) but for some reason I get a bit better performance with the nuppelvideo stuff so I stuck with that. But I think the really big selling point of MythTV isn't the ability to record, do timeshifting, or access via the web... it's about it's really, really nice graphical interface. You just really have to see for yourself to believe it. I feel like a born-again couch potato!
MythTV debian packages are here.
Is it still true that no one has managed to "log into" their Series 2 Tivo and bring up a bash prompt? When I bought one a few months ago and learned that all the nice hacks were restricted to Series 1 Tivo's, I prompted returned my Tivo 2 for a full refund.
Now I'm using a homebrew box (which by the way cost the same as Tivo Series 2 + lifetime subscription) and am running MythTV.
And I could not be happier.
Things I wouldn't know how to do with a Series 2:
1) Customize the UI and navigate it with a wireless keyboard instead of a remote.
2) Burn content to DVD.
3) Integrate my MP3 collection and digital photos.
4) Update programming guide if Tivo went bankrupt and my "lifetime" subscription expired worthless.
5) Export recorded content to other machines sittings on my LAN.
6) Customize the commercial-skipping function.
7) Upgrade/replace a component (e.g. hard drive)
installing linux? ohhhh... you'd betta believe thats a paddling!
I Soviet Russia boobies are flat as a plywood sheet.
perhaps something is wrong with your mythtv setup? mythtv runs nice and smooth on mine! When I added an additional 512MB, it runs great! Although my setup might be a bit more complex (using TwinView xinerama) but it still runs perfectly fine on a normal monitor without TV-out. (besides, I just use the xinerama clone function anyway)
Oh, and the twin SCART sockets may be ideal for European users, but there is no mention of composite or S-VHS socketry for the US - so Americans will have to get a SCART-to-S-VHS cable to use this box.
This seems like a cool box for the Europeans among us. But, for the Americans, it's not very useful. DVB is a European satellite standard. The American satellite services, DirecTV and Dish Network are completely proprietary.
PVR hardware is all nifty and fun, but it's the TV scheduling/programming feed that makes these things useful. That's what Tivo and ReplayTV charge their monthly fees for.
Now, if you had a hackable PVR *and* you had a reliable source of free and accurate electronic TV listings, then you would have something.
Until then I don't see what the fuss is about this box. Without the ability to easily program to record all episodes of you've got doorstop with a PowerPC chip in it.
I wish I could go back to the time before every word comprised of more than one syllable had to have odd CapiTaliZation...
included at no charge
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
Its a Media PC in all but name. Better designed box for my AV rack too.
Seems to miss a hard disk (product spec talks about hard disk support not hard disk), so add 120 Euros for 80 gig.
They could blow Microsoft/HP media PC out of the water if they have the right software.
Welcome to your first post on Slashdot TROLL
Your talking about their upload module. Curious 3 people modded you up, but its very obvious reading the picture that thats the software upload program.
Sorry, but I don't feel like logging into my PVR machine, launching VI and editing my .pvrrc file.
Linux can handle both .zip and .exe.
Is that what you were looking at? If so, quit staring.
Dunno which part of the world you live in, but if you're in an area where DVB is used, check out VDR, it's da bomb.
Did you know you can fertilize your lawn with used motor oil?
The PVR records what you watch... But in Soviet Russia The PVR records YOU!
bah, forgot to add it, sleepless... Yes, it does all those professional work with 133mhz processor.
nipplevideo??
Apparently there is already a Linux set top box available in UK high streets:
t yp e=i-Player
f e5 54bca26e828bd75f91a12843fbds.html
http://www.netgem.com/main/products.xml?id=375&
It has USB for external Ethernet support and boots off onboard Flash. Netgem products don't seem to be that well known outside of Europe but they have produced a small set-top Linux-powered Internet appliance in quite high numbers already.
Evidence that this new box is in the shops here:
http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/t/44186/9ea
The box is powered by an IBM "vesta" power PC chip I think, this is a System-on-chip device aimed at DVB.
I held off the purchase of a network audio player because the devices on the market didn't fit the bill (for example, neither the Audiotron nor the SliMP3 can handle Ogg Vorbis natively, AFAIK).
This could be the box I was looking for: Ethernet, backlit LCD, IR remote, enough oomph for decoding audio streams, and Linux. And PVR functions thrown in to boot.
"There are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare." - Blair Houghton
What are your system specs? I've been considering setting up my spare p3-600 with 384MB RAM which already runs linux (gentoo!) as a PVR. I've already got a spare ati tv wonder, so I was curious how my performance would be (ie if the recorder was going to drop frames to make the encoder keep up with the video).
The "dreambox" is nothing more than a polished version of the d-box, a machine build from Nokia, Sagem and Philips for the European, especially german speaking market. A Company called Kirch Media sold these boxes in order to give access to "Premiere", a digital, excrypted set of some 30 or so channels some of which are pay-per-view. Kirch is now bankrupt, since pretty much everybody and their friends watched/watches this "Premiere" for free since the Irdeto encryption wasn't really hard to break.
The d-box was build around a 66Mhz PPC with 32MB of RAM and 8MB of Flash. It features prtty much everything the dreambox has to offer minus the IDE channel. For this machine, an open source firmware was written by some enthusiasts since the original firmware was Java based and took up to 30 sec. to switch channels - not real acceptable is it. Streaming and therefore the PVR function can be achieved via the 10Mbit LAN connection on the machine itself and some nice software tricks.
You can get further infos (mostly in german) using google searching for "linux@dbox2"
...or so I read somewhere, they'd better hurry up if they want to get it into Santa's sleigh...
So all you ex UK OnDigital subscribers who are going to be forced to return or pay for your set top box, there is hope of a getter gizmo.
This is a new suscription free PVR for the UK market that receives all the free to air DTTV channels.
Not much in the way of details or prices yet...
Taken fkn 0wnz j00!
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the company that bought the rights to build PVR out of the Sega Dreamcast chipsets?
I remember seeing some prototypes last spring.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Is there a us version? I notice the power was 230/50 dont think I can get that at my house but I will try :)
Atto
I didn't use the preview button, so get over it!!!!
Mike
I always read these stories about Linux PVRs with interest, but there is one HUGE disadvantage for roll-your-own solutions that I never see discussed: the DirectTV with built-in Tivo unit has the ability to record the exact stream that is broadcast from the satellite. This means you can watch a time-shifted or recorded program with absolutely no degradation in quality (beyond the degradation already inherit in DirecTV's MPEG2-ish compression, anyway).
Back when I had a stand-alone tivo I never thought this would be a big deal, but man it really is. If you don't admit this is an advantage, raise your hand and affirm this statement: "I think VHS is just as good as DVD"
Don't get my wrong, Linux has its place in the home network (I'm pulling video off my tivo over a turbonet card from 9thtee.com for archival etc--and yes I have to degrade the quality to accomplish this) but until the linux tools get a lossless compression scheme working it is really nothing but a fun hack for the true tv aficionados.
I hope that this is not considered too offtopic, because I would really like to get some responses.
/dev/dsp, but this does not control the tuner for me. The have considered cron to change the stations, but I have no experience with any radio tuner software and would like an integrated way to do it.
I would like a "pvr"-like software that can control a radio tuner card, and dump it to mp3.
In my area we have two NPR stations in the area, and Art Bell on a normally sports at night. Car Talk and Art Bell would make an mp3 player worth it.
I have seen a script that records and automatically names files that it records from the
I would also like to know what type of tuner others use.
If you are afflicted with Windows on any of your machines, give Replay Radio a look. I played with it briefly a while back, and think it does what you are looking for.
how big is the hard drive? that's somewhat important for a PVR..
also, if this thing had a dvd-r or even a cd-r it would definitely be a Tivo killer.
Check the MythTV archieves, someone is working on this!
When the source is open, the possibilities are endless.
Long time ago Microsoft abandoned non-x86 platforms. Now we'll see how they would like one more market sector with computers which cannot run Windows.
---
Home without Windows - the prison cage? No! It's a world without walls!
Less is more !
Do my eyes decieve me?
Read the text -- the Windows software shown is for updating the flash via a Windows box. It specifically mentions connecting a serial port, etc...
NGWave - Fast Sound Editor for Windows
This may be true but if one hammer smells like roses and the other one smells strongly of piss, smell becomes a valid criteria.
La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
agreed -- This Dream Machine does not seem to offer much other then a base line box for "other" companies to OEM. Long Live TIVO!
Or are you just stupid?
The only major roadblock to accomplishing this in a homebrew box is hardware MPEG-2 compression. For around $300 (IIRC) you can get a reference board with linux drivers (sorry no link handy), or try to dick around with the unfinished drivers for the Hauppage wintv pvr or similar devices. I've been looking high and low for a working mpeg-2 compression solution for a linux set-top box. It's what would keep me from having to put an Athlon 1800+ into a homebrew PVR and then still deal with the quality of something like NuppelVideo.
I don't want a PVR that runs Linux. I want a PVR that works well. I don't give a rat's ass what OS it runs. In fact, I don't want to see the OS. I just want a powerful, user-friendly interface and software that does not require that I do anything to make it work other than select the programs I want to record.
Oh, wait... That's why I bought a TiVo. {Yes, it runs Linux under the hood, but, thankfully, that's well-hidden.}
I will never understand the Linux users that need daily affirmations of their operating system choice. Article after article on Slashdot is published about handhelds, PVRs, etc. that run Linux. It's like the Special Olympics of operating systems; everyone involved gets a ribbon.
And you WISHED you could afford the upgrade from 8KB to 32.
Or for $1700 you could get a really GOOD used card (to drive uphill in the snow in your escher-town).
So quite complaining and be glad there is an alternative to the x86 monopoly.
Now where the hell is my HighDef recording?
I hear you. I'm tired of hearing about every device in the world that runs linux. If linux is such a powerful, flexible, and mature operating system why is it news every time someone successfully uses it in a product?
So far...can't find a way to get ATI card's TV-OUT to work...don't think the new drivers do it now either. I was going to try with the ATI 8500 DV so as to use the hardware compression on the card since my machine is only a P3 600. I don't think software solutions will work with any quality on my machine...so, still looking for a tv-out, hardware compression solution to try this DIY project myself...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
While the x86 and PPC are not comparable MHz for MHz, you can certainly figure out how much work each one does per cycle.
e _papers_and_tech_docs/23802.pdf to guess that.
o ducts/PowerPC_604e_Microprocessor
While work per cycles is important, work per Watt is even more important in embedded systems. You are comparing a PowerPC( less than 7.5 Watts) to a 1GHZ Duron(greater than 40 Watts). I am using the AMD datasheet http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/whit
Just for comparison, a dirt cheap throw away CPU nowadays would be a 1GHz Duron (around $35),
I bet you can get this particular PowerPC for under 10.00. This IBM PowerPC is circa 1997 and is a 604e chip. http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/pr
The PPC would have to execute four times more instructions per cycle than the Duron to be roughly comparable, and you can bet your life that it doesn't.
From the product brief:
Dispatch Unit
Dispatch up to 4 instructions per cycle
8-instruction dispatch buffer
Completion Unit
Completes up to 4 instructions plus 1 store
and 1 branch per cycle
So, all in all, while the PPC might be more efficient per cycle, it is not per dollar.
Like I said, you have to compare the embedded features. Low power, form factor, layout, manufacturers support, etc. AMD does not market to the embedded folks very well. PowerPC is very good at that.
The cost of this product comes in the engineering work that went into designing a custom PCB and layout for this product. Not in the parts or software.
> While work per cycles is important, work per Watt
> is even more important in embedded systems.
Not really, unless you're talking battery operated, or are dealing with extreme heat generation. Judging by many embedded systems nowadays (e.g. set-top boxes from cable providers), heat generation IS an issue, but you didn't specifically address that.
Besides, I was being very generous comparing the 250 MHz PPC to the 1 GHz Duron, because they're certainly not in the same performance class. Don't forget that the Duron itself has a work-per-cycle advantage over Intel, so it's no slouch either. Plus, while I don't know too much about the PPC, it's still an old school RISC design if I'm not wrong, meaning that it has fewer complex instructions and might require more of them than an x86 to accomplish some things (fp math/fancy addressing).
> The cost of this product comes in the engineering work that
> went into designing a custom PCB and layout for this product.
That's right, and that's why it might not make much sense for most of the applications people are salivating over here. The cheap (but potentially hotter, though still fanless) Via Epia boards are perfect for these geek-type "embedded" applications, such as MP3 and MP4/DivX players (though the jury is still out on whether the C3 processor has quite enough juice for the latter). The extra heat and power won't matter much, but the very substantial cost savings will.
Tivo has pretty good Linux-based PVR software. It seems the /. crowd has somehow forgotten that Tivo is linux-based, or else we wouldn't be seeing stories like this. Basically the German company developed a product like DirecTivo. How original and innovative.
MythTV is a nice project which is nearing some significant milestones in terms of usability. Isaac Richards, the fellow behind the effort, is good at both architecting and writing software, and is very quick at fixing problems that people (enthusiasts, mainly) find.
The biggest problem is that the architecture is based around software codecs which requires reasonably hefty CPUs. Hefty CPUs (eg, Athlon 1800) need hefty fans and big boxes. Hefty fans make a lot of noise, and big boxes are, to my eye, far too large for audio/video equipment, and often (but not always) plain ugly.
Isaac has made it clear that he intends at some point to support hardware codecs, but the timeline for that is unclear, as it requires support in a number of other areas (eg, xvideo).
My assessment of the current state of MythTV is that it looks great, has a nice interface, does most of the things you would want a PVR to do (and the list of unsupported options is getting shorter and shorter by the day), but as no hard-and-fast guidelines about supported hardware have been established, getting it to work on your particular box can be a hassle (but, might not be, if you get lucky with choosing the right hardware; unfortunately, there isn't a good published list of the right hardware). Unfortunately, MythTV requires a large handful of other packages, and getting exactly the right versions of each can be frustrating at times. While the project has considerable promise, and I have every expectation that it will eventually be excellent, it isn't quite ready for prime time.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
well, according to issac of mythtv fame, he was able to record video just fine using the lower resolution (300x240?). It does use the libavcodecs from mplayer fame so it can be pretty fast and highly configurable in terms of quality, speed, and cpu load.
I'm using the ATI 7500 AIW card and got the tv-out working (for console) by compiling the VESA Framebuffer support instead of the Radeon Framebuffer in the kernel. Now I can play videos using mplayer with directfb output and I even managed to get Xdirectfb working (though, not configured correctly yet).
The difficulty I am working with on the console now is not being able to adjust the display on the tv, 2 or 3 characters on the left side are off the screen, not a problem for watching videos, but directory listings are a pain.
I love my TiVo, but I understand why some people would want a more "open" system, either to be able to customize it, add features, be faster, etc.
Also, there is the threat of TiVo's insolvency. If they go belly up and the TiVo service stops working, I will be left with a glorified VCR.
Until my TiVo or their business fails, I am not going to look for a replacement, but if would be cool if there were software I could use on an old computer I already have if it comes to that.
The idea that an arbitrary naive human should be able to properly use a given
tool without training or understanding is even more wrong for computing than
it is for other tools (e.g. automobiles, airplanes, guns, power saws).
-- Doug Gwyn
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