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New Stem Cell Source - Your Bone Marrow

BoogieChile writes "ABC News is reporting that a team of researchers from Cedars-Sinai Medical Centre in Los Angeles, lead by Dr John Yu, are aiming to extract renewable stem cells from bone marrow - extracted from the patient him/herself - for a source of neural stem cells for treatment of brain cancers, Alzheimers and other neurological disorders. Problem solved! Yipee! New spinal column, anyone?" 'Course the story has no details - post anything else you can find below.

230 comments

  1. Replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Would this be able to replace getting stem cells from Fetuses?

    1. Re:Replacement by grub · · Score: 0, Troll


      Would this be able to replace getting stem cells from Fetuses?

      Yes, but it's a lot less fun getting it from marrow.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    2. Re:Replacement by _TheDoc_ · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, this is a tricky question. Although the article doesn't mention this directly, I'm sure that it's one of the problems they're going to encounter. Fetal stem cells are what they call totipotential, in that they have the ability to become any type of specialized cell in the body given the appropriate "signals." Stem cells in the adult bone marrow are slightly less capable of this, usually being called pluripotential. While they can differentiate into a wide number of cells, they are relatively committed to becoming some type of formed element in the blood or bone marrow. The challenge at this point will be attempting to coax the marrow stem cells into taking a neural development route, something they hadn't originally planned on doing.

      --
      -The Doc
    3. Re:Replacement by Timesprout · · Score: 1

      Does this mean that if I am given toti potential cells I might turn into a really good looking woman ?

      --
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      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    4. Re:Replacement by japhyr777 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is exactly the problem. The stem cells at this point are already specialized, and they essentially know how old they are. Hence the reason to use fetal stem cells that have not been programmed as to their task.

      I find it strange that this is something new. My friends who are working with stem cells have known about research of this type for some time, and know the inherent weaknesses in these methods.

    5. Re:Replacement by Eccles · · Score: 1

      While [bone marrow stem cells] can differentiate into a wide number of cells, they are relatively committed to becoming some type of formed element in the blood or bone marrow.

      The article is *very* short on details, but it seems to be claiming that they have a procedure that reduces these limitations. Brain cells were specifically mentioned.

      But the reporter could misunderstand, misquote, etc.; thus we really need more details before we can be sure this is the case.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
    6. Re:Replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obtaining stem cells capable of neural differentiation is only one step. Despite what the average layman and even some MD researchers (often times only slightly more informed than the average layperson) stem cells aren't the antibiotics of the 21st century. You can't just inject them into someone's [insert body part here] and cure [insert disease here]. The may prove very useful in the future, but discovering an adequate source is not even an a major challenge in their utilization.

    7. Re:Replacement by operagost · · Score: 1

      That or elective plastic surgery.

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      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    8. Re:Replacement by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      damn right, that is why to grow an organ in a test tube for a patient, we will have to clone a fetus for them from their somatic cells (well actualy, it will be in that blastula stage of development) then you can get a perfect match for a new organ without harvesting or anything...just grow a new liver (most likely the first organ to be grown) or a kidney (one of the last to be grown due to its complexity).

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    9. Re:Replacement by mikehoskins · · Score: 2

      I've always heard and read, except on Slashdot, where the news is always accurate, that adult stem cells are almost always considered to be better.

      One major problem, outside of the ethical issues raised by embryonic stem cells, is that there will be rejection with fetal cells. If you use your own stem cells, there is no problem with rejection, since your DNA == your DNA and is thus not a foreign body.

      This is why if you get a transplant, you have to take anti-rejection (immunosuppressing) drugs the rest of your life. If you use your own DNA, you won't have to worry about this. While you're on anti-rejection drugs, it's live having chemically-induced AIDS -- no/little immunity.

    10. Re:Replacement by jakobk · · Score: 1

      http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/06/0 3/0221254&mode=thread&tid=134

    11. Re:Replacement by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      thanks for that link.

      I am realy excited now, my son has one kidney that is not working at 100% so he will need a new one when he gets older, I hope that this reserach continues so that when he is old enoughm he can get a new kidney without fear of rejection.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  2. Interesting by Tablespork · · Score: 1

    Finally found something that people won't(hopefully) bitch at em about.

    1. Re:Interesting by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      Nah, People will still complain about it but not as many. This will probably at least get the big organizations such as the catholic churches and political parties off their backs. So there will only be smaller organazations that will complain about it somehow.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Interesting by Xaoswolf · · Score: 0
      Are you kidding, now what am I supposed to do with all the dead babies in my freezer???

      I guess I could find a Chili cookoff somewhere...

    3. Re:Interesting by LokiSteve · · Score: 3, Funny


      I can't believe you could be so callous and un-feeling. Why does nobody think of the poor, unborn red blood cells that bone marrow could have become? I think we should all write the government and have them withdraw funding for what is essentially murder.
      </sarcasm>

      --
      END OF LINE.
  3. Damn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    There goes my business plan for foetal farming. I guess I'll have to abort the whole crop.

    1. Re:Damn! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      holy shit that's cold.

  4. More links... by SealBeater · · Score: 5, Informative

    More info here
    and
    here

    SealBeater

    --
    -- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
  5. Leukemia by jmertic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've heard about something like this with Leukemia patients. Basically, they can get you in remission, extract some stem cells from you, then use those stem cells for a bone marrow transplant for you later on. Someone elaborate on this if you know more, as I'm not a doctor and could be speaking out of my ass on this one.

    1. Re:Leukemia by _TheDoc_ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You are correct, and this is currently being used to treat a variety of patients with "bone marrow failure" from illnesses not necessarily limited to leukemias. The big jump here is that they're hoping they can trick the bone marrow stem cells into thinking they can become neural cells, something not in the original game plan. Of course even if that is possible, whether or not we can actually harness this power to treat disease is left to be discovered. Given the possibilities, however, it's something I'd keep my fingers crossed on.

      --
      -The Doc
    2. Re:Leukemia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An amount of bone marrow is generally removed prior to heavy doses of chemo or radio therapy then transplanted back after the course is complete. This has become quite routine, at least in the UK over last couple of years. I don't think it has any bearing on stem cells per se.

    3. Re:Leukemia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have a co-worker that is undegoing treatment for cancer of the spinal cord. He had a series of radiation and chemo earlier this year. A couple months ago he had some marrow extracted and stem cells cultivated. Earlier this month, he underwent a massive dose of chemo with the intent of killing off all his remaining bone marrow. A few days later, he was injected with his own stem cells. From the early results, it looks like his treatment is working. He's being treated at the University of Wisconsin. His type of cancer is rare, but nearly always fatal, so hopefully this experimental treatment will work for him.

    4. Re:Leukemia by Paul+Dawson-Schmidt · · Score: 1
      One of the uses of stem cell transplants for treating various types of cancers is to do very high dose chemotherapy to get the patient into remission, but this will also destroy the patients bone marrow. Stem cells are reintroduced after the high dose chemotherapy to re-establish the patient's bone marrow. The stem cells for this process can be obtained from the patient or from someone else that is a good enough match, and the stem cells are harvested from the donor's blood.


      My information is from my doctor and various sources that I encounted while fighting Hodgkin's Disease (now in remission), but I luckily didn't have to go through the high dose chemo, so I'm sure there are more details that many others could add.

    5. Re:Leukemia by zzendpad · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's called an autologous bone marrow transplant (as opposed to an allogence transplant, from another donor). They basically take some of your bone marrow. Then they whack you with the strongest chemo they've got. It's used for multiple myeloma, Hodgkin's and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, breast, ovarian, and testicular cancer. The chemotherapies for these conditions affect your bone marrow greatly. So, they take some, whack you with the chemo, which hoses your bone marrow. Then they give you some of your old marrow back.

      I was an Adriamynic, Bleomycin, Dicarbazine and Vinblastine for Hodgkin's lymphoma, this is a very common chemo for them to do an ABMT. I was spared this, though, because my bone marrow was already shot when they began treatment.

    6. Re:Leukemia by zzendpad · · Score: 1

      sorry, meant to say 'allogenic'

    7. Re:Leukemia by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2, Interesting

      well now wait.....if they can perform a bonemarrow transplant from your own bone marrow stem cells, would that not be a uesfull technique for organ transplants? a year or so ago, a girl recived a kidney in NYC. she also got a bonemarrow transplant afterward. now the kidney is not identified as alien since the new marrow reset her factors or what have you.

      would the same not hold true for a self doner transplant/replant?

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    8. Re:Leukemia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are correct! It is not just for leukemia. A couple of years ago I donated some stem-cells to help treat my sister's cancer.

      Initially, the doc wanted bone marrow but when the genetic tests came back so much a match, he decided that he could grab the stem-cells and luekactyes (spelling-fuzzy memory) directly from my blood steam.

      In order to stimulate production, He had me take 4 sub-cuetaneous injections of neupogen for 4 days before the donations. (burned like hell and sure made you feel like you had the flu).

      They installed a 3-port on me by running a tube through my sub-clavial (I barely remember). I watched the doc push this tube inside me under a flouroscope. The 3-port kind of made me look like a member of the borg collective and pretty much was a hall pass to go where ever I wanted in the hospital.

      After that, I was hooked to a special machine that certrifuged the stuff out of my blood stream through the three port.

      Two days of 6 hours on the machine and I gave'em more than they needed for the transplant.

      I'm glad they didn't drill holes in my bone.

  6. Reuters on yahoo... by daoine · · Score: 5, Informative
    With a little more detail here.

    It doesn't focus much on the technology used, but the point that adults have stem cells within them, and scientist can now obtain them without going the politically icky embryo route.

    1. Re:Reuters on yahoo... by CptNerd · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not to mention eliminating the need for post-operative immunosupressive drugs.

      --
      By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
    2. Re:Reuters on yahoo... by Hungus · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      "politically icky embryo route" - why dont you say the truth .. the ending of one human life for the possibilty to help another - no this is not a troll

      --
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    3. Re:Reuters on yahoo... by SomeoneGotMyNick · · Score: 2

      Based on the contents of the Yahoo article in growing brains cells in lab environments, I'm surprised there aren't a whole lot of Pinky and The Brain jokes around here.

    4. Re:Reuters on yahoo... by daoine · · Score: 2
      I shouldn't be adding fuel to the flamebait, but I'm going to respond anyway.

      "politically icky embryo route" - why dont you say the truth .. the ending of one human life for the possibilty to help another - no this is not a troll

      There's an inherent assumption in this statement which is incorrect. You've assumed that the embryos used for stem cell research would have otherwise grown to be human. That's not necessarily the case. Imagine a woman has her ovaries removed, and donates them to science rather than having them disposed of. No kids are coming out of those eggs. Now, add a guy that donates to research for the same purposes.

      While some people see this as a destruction of life, others might see that the only reason the embryo exists is because of the research. There is no ending of a potential life -- because the embryo's existence came out of research only. Without the research project, it would be biohazardous waste and nothing else.

      Thus, 'politically icky' is far closer to the "truth" than anything you've said -- because that's exactly what this problem is -- it's a battle of belief.

    5. Re:Reuters on yahoo... by Hungus · · Score: 1

      no my assumption as you put it is that the "embryo" is a human life. which is not an assumption at all but an act of logical reasoning. it is a matter of personal rights, had i been attempting to inflame, be a troll or something else i would have said things like "right to life" murder, abortion ect. I did not use any thing of this nature. My statement that an embryo is human life is reasonable and stems from teh notion that I am alive now and was alive 1 second ago and so on ad infinitum until the statement is no longer true. at the second it is no longer true did i not exist or was i not alive. if i was not alive tehn someting amazing hapened .. life from nothing, if i did not exist then something must have triggered teh existance .. in the is particular case it was a sperm cell fusing with an egg cell.

      --
      Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
    6. Re:Reuters on yahoo... by Ubertech · · Score: 1

      So we have donor eggs combined with donor sperm to create an embryo. Isn't this the same process used when people with fertility problems (such as low sperm count) go to the clinic for help?

      This still brings up the argument that if life begins at conception (natural or lab induced), then you have what will develop into a baby. If this is a persons belief, then harvesting for stem cells is still destruction of life whether or not the embryo was created in a lab.

      Definitely "politically icky."

      Sorry to fan the flames here, I can't help it 8-)

      --
      Be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger.
    7. Re:Reuters on yahoo... by daoine · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that was exactly my point. Since we're stuck at this argument of 'when life begins' -- and people disagree on that, we can't really have an argument of truth, but one of politics.

    8. Re:Reuters on yahoo... by Samrobb · · Score: 2
      There's an inherent assumption in this statement which is incorrect. You've assumed that the embryos used for stem cell research would have otherwise grown to be human. That's not necessarily the case. Imagine...

      Please. Your "imaginary" scenario is just that - imaginary. What you describe does not happen. If for no other reason, it is far more time-consuming and expensive that simply killing an unborn child.

      If we were discussing gun control, and I spun out a fairy tale about some old lady using her sainted husband's old .45 to defend herself from a slavering gang of would-be rapists, I'd be (justly) blasted for presenting a picture of life that was wildly out of sync with reality.

      You've tried to do the same thing here... spin a wildly distorted view of reality in the hopes that someone will debate the imaginary point instead of what really happens out in the Big Room.

      --
      "Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgement." Job 32:9
    9. Re:Reuters on yahoo... by daoine · · Score: 2, Interesting
      No, I don't think it's distorted at all -- it's simply not going into all the detail. People who go through fertility treatments often have a bunch o' embryos pre-created. Once they're pregnant, they don't need the extra ones. The process of creating one embryo at a time is incrdibly costly -- the people going in for treatment know ahead of time that many will be created, not all will be used. That's a choice they make.

      This is not out of sync with reality. There's an embryo that exists that could either by biohazard or science. If the parents say 'hey - give it to science' then off they go. The point of the scenario is willing donation -- which does occur.

      And I find it hard to believe that the above process is more difficult to follow through on then finding an 1 cm fetus in an abortion.

    10. Re:Reuters on yahoo... by SiliconShaman · · Score: 1
      If we were discussing gun control, and I spun out a fairy tale about some old lady using her sainted husband's old .45 to defend herself from a slavering gang of would-be rapists, I'd be (justly) blasted for presenting a picture of life that was wildly out of sync with reality.
      Actually, this happens all the time. I can give you newspaper references if you like.

      Peace favor your sword

  7. You can pry my marrow.. by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


    .. from my cold, dead hands!

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:You can pry my marrow.. by einstein · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      ...
      Proposal Accepted.

      insert loud slurping noise here

    2. Re:You can pry my marrow.. by jtheory · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Say, if you have Alzheimer's, THEN is it bad to sleep with a loaded gun under your pillow?
      Better hope I recognize you when you come to wake me up in the morning, honey.

      --
      There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
    3. Re:You can pry my marrow.. by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Firstly... What kind of pillow do you have?? Cause a loaded 9mm would put a big ass lump in my pillow and I'd never fall asleep.

      Secondly... Aren't you afraid the tooth fairy will come by, see that huge ass lump and go "jackpot!!!" then when she finds it isn't a tooth, she's both pissed and she has a gun????

      Sounds pretty risky to me!

      --
      Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
    4. Re:You can pry my marrow.. by DaytonCIM · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be painful otherwise?

    5. Re:You can pry my marrow.. by Real+World+Stuff · · Score: 1

      MOD Parent Up FUNNY!
      C'mon mods, it was funny.

      --
      If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
  8. Check an article with actual details by chupar · · Score: 5, Informative
    1. Re:Check an article with actual details by chupar · · Score: 1

      Doh... Apologies. The article is from Nov 2001, and so full text is only available to subscribers.

  9. Is this news? by Enzondio · · Score: 5, Informative

    I understood that this had been known to be an option for some time now. The issue at hand as I understand it is that these cells are potentially not as useful as embryonic stem cells. I assume beacuse they have already differentiated to a certain degree.

    Not to say that this research is not of value but I don't know that it's safe to say that it solves the whole embryonic stem cell issue.

    Am I remembering incorrectly?

    1. Re:Is this news? by mathi · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      It has been on slashdot before: here

    2. Re:Is this news? by tcm614ce · · Score: 1

      Or maybe the issue at hand is that embryonic stem cells aren't as useful as adult stem cells...(ianas)

      --
      Error: Success
    3. Re:Is this news? by Enzondio · · Score: 1

      Very possibly.

      My feeling is that we should explore both options. It's too early to tell whether one or the other will be superior.

      It also may end up that adult stem cells are useful in some situations and embryonic in others.

    4. Re:Is this news? by tcm614ce · · Score: 1

      My feeling is that we should explore both options.

      Not mine. I happen to think that taking human life unjustly is murder. The ends never justify the means, which is why it's good that adult stem cell extraction seems to be getting a bit of good press.

      --
      Error: Success
    5. Re:Is this news? by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      why not just use the stem cells from each location in the body? I can see how central nervuse systems would benifit from this as they do not produce stem cells after the system is developed, but, what about kidney patients? could you not take stem cells from the kideny of a patient, fix any genetic defects that might exist, then grow a new kidney?

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    6. Re:Is this news? by Enzondio · · Score: 2

      Well, this is hardly the place to get in a silly argument about abortion where we both just restate our opinions, each time getting louder (wait, this IS Slashdot, maybe it is the place for that).

      So I'll just say this. I am not a dualist, because I see no evidence to suggest that dualism is correct; the bible doesn't count as evidence in my opinion. Since I am not a dualist it is difficult for me to equate a bunch of undifferentiated cells to a living, thinking, human being. So I can in fact agree with you that taking human life unjustly is murder, and is not acceptable. What I can't agree with you on is that extraction of stem cells from an embryo constitues taking a human life.

      There I'm done.

    7. Re:Is this news? by tcm614ce · · Score: 1

      (chuckle) kudos for keeping your head level.

      Well, this is hardly the place...

      agreed :-)

      So I'll just say this. My logic is biological as well. I'll just modify your statement "...it is difficult for me to equate a bunch of undifferentiated cells to a living, thinking, human being..." by 2 words:

      it is [easy] for me to equate a bunch of undifferentiated cells to a living, [growing] human being

      And I'm done :-)

      --
      Error: Success
  10. Does "tip toe around the ethics" mean /.? by John+Harrison · · Score: 1

    I know that it was meant to reference the stem cell debate, but what are the journalistics ethis of posting a article, admitting that it contains no details, and then asking for the readers to find more info for you? Seems a bit irresponsible to me.

  11. I find this doubtful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0006850 F-381C-1CDC-B4A8809EC588EEDF&pageNumber=1&catI D=2

    The existence of adult stem cells, while highly promising if they exist and are as functional as embryonic ones, is still in doubt.

    1. Re:I find this doubtful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The existance of God is still in doubt, but that doesn't stop pro-life people from opposing stem-cell research.

    2. Re:I find this doubtful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The existence of adult stem cells, while highly promising if they exist and are as functional as embryonic ones, is still in doubt.

      Not really, depending on how you mean "stem cell". If you just mean cells with the potential to differentiate into a variety of different tissue types, then you can find stem cells in adult tissues ranging from marrow to muscle to brain. Just query PubMed for "adult stem cells". If you insist on the most rigorous possible definition-omnipotent, immortal cells--then the question is more in doubt.

    3. Re:I find this doubtful by boatboy · · Score: 1

      Most pro-lifers don't oppose stem cell research. They do oppose killing embryos for stem cells, on the same ethical grounds they would oppose killing you for stem cells. God's existence isn't necissarily a question.

      Where God comes into play is that God is a basis for many people's ethics. You may base your ethics on other things, but I assume you have some basic ethic keeping you from killing people.

    4. Re:I find this doubtful by MountainBoiler · · Score: 1
      The fact that ANY stem cell is truly 'functional' (a medical Silver Bullet) is also in doubt.

      Just like .Net won't solve all computer problems, though many would claim it can, stem cells are purely therotical cures - which may never work in a practical world, and even then, in limited cases.

      The existance of adult stem cells provides an ethical solution to expand the research in this arean. (Assuming they exist) We can find out if they act the same as embryonic ones. If they do, we can use them instead. If not, we can focus on the difference to better understand this biological technology.

    5. Re:I find this doubtful by kargis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Um. Although that Sciam article accurately discusses the doubts of some, there are an impressive number of experiments that have shown that stem cells can be pulled from marrow, and can and will replace tissues from other organs.

      Cell, Vol. 105, 369-377, May 4, 2001

      Kargis Strong, MD

  12. Great news for Health by Zerbey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Unfortunately, the article goes into very little details such as:

    Is extracting stem cells for bone marrow just as good as from fetuses? Can it be taken for a living patient? I have a big ethical problem with taking stem cells from an unborn baby, simply because a baby does not have the ability to consent to such a procedure.

    I will be one of the first in line to donate bone marrow but will probably get rejected. Unfortunately, since I've lived in two countries no bloodbank will take my donation, even though I have no health problems. Hopefully, the law will be changed one day.

    1. Re:Great news for Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They won't take your donation because you've got the High-Five.

    2. Re:Great news for Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Embryonic stem cells are not taken from unborn babies, they are taken from embryos, preferably while still undifferentiated. This is because what is wanted is the cells *before* they start taking on roles. The cells are then cultured. And as in the SciAm article I linked to before, it is far from certain adult stem cells even exist and work.

      Note, the whole point of embryonic, is so one can clone a patient and while the cloned cells are still in undifferentiated stage, use them for treatment to avoid rejection. This is far different from your implication of somehow extracting them from a baby.

    3. Re:Great news for Health by great+om · · Score: 1
      I will be one of the first in line to donate bone marrow but will probably get rejected. Unfortunately, since I've lived in two countries no bloodbank will take my donation, even though I have no health problems. Hopefully, the law will be changed one day.
      -can you elaborate on this further? -om
      --
      ------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
    4. Re:Great news for Health by override11 · · Score: 1

      Why do you have a big ethical problem? Most babies are aborted for a reason, and its none of anyone else's damn business if a woman decides to abort her baby. You are so quick to make that decision, do you want the mothers who cant afford their kids, or know they will be unable to raise them, to bring them to your door to pay for / love / raise them as your own??

      I would say if you have this 'big ethical problem' about taking stem cells from an unborn baby, you just stay at home and quit thinking about it, because its happening whether you want it too or not. :P

      --
      No I didnt spell check this post...
    5. Re:Great news for Health by Rootman · · Score: 1
      The American blood banks are really picky about your history, just living in Eurpoe for 3 months or more makes you inelegable - mad cow disease is the biggest reason. This knocked a friend of mine off the donor list, she had been giving for decades. She had the priviledge of being stationed in Scottland during her time in the Navy.

      They are also picky about additional countries for other reasons. Check out the FAQ at http://www.redcross.org/services/biomed/blood/lear n/CJDv.html .

    6. Re:Great news for Health by Parad0x177 · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that the whole issue revolves around two things: 1.)when a developing embryo "becomes" a developing baby and 2.) cloning.

      If you consider any point after the fertilization stage a "developing baby" (and since the stem cells are the embryo) then in this case you would be "taking stem cells from an unborn baby." (and thereby killing it and bringing in abortion issues)

      Then, to further complicate matters, in order to avoid tissue rejection, the stem cells must be a genetic match. So, in order to accomplish this, the DNA of the developing zygote must be replaced with the DNA of the target patient, in effect creating a (developing human) clone. (which is currently a no-no)

      But, like I said, that's just my understanding of it. So, I could be a little off here and there.

    7. Re:Great news for Health by jmertic · · Score: 1

      Now what I know may only apply to Leukemia ( since I have a nephew with it and I'm learning alot about bone marrow and such things ), but if you have the choice, stem cells from umbilical cords are the best choice. Otherwise human donors are possible.

      Basically the pull blood out of one arm, feed it though a machine to filter out stem cells, and return it in the other arm. Simple, relatively painless ( as opposed to the giant needle in the hip ), and from what I understand, much better results than the needle in the hip.

      Again, I not a doctor, so correct me if I'm wrong.

    8. Re:Great news for Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you suggesting that anyone can consent to anything. What is wrong with you. Get off your horse and realize you are not special. You are right about one thing, there is no moral difference between anyone and a fetus. This is not because of "god" or any shit like that, it is because you, me and everyone else is just spare parts the the other. This is not a rant and it certainly isn't offtopic, so fuck you who mods me down, this is reality. These people who post any comment that includeds "because they can't consent" need to realize that you can't consent either. So why are we tring to build something as well as something we already have? This is pointless.

      Someone please re-explain my point, if you get it, because I am so pissed off at these people to try and be nice about it.

    9. Re:Great news for Health by CommieLib · · Score: 5, Insightful

      are so quick to make that decision, do you want the mothers who cant afford their kids, or know they will be unable to raise them, to bring them to your door to pay for / love / raise them as your own??

      What if his answer is yes? Can't we agree that at least some women choose not to abort because they know that an adoptive family can be found?

      My sister in law found herself in this situation (someone who reads my posts regularly is starting to be able to piece together her life story together by now ;)). The choice is a deeply personal one, so it's not right for me to say one way or another why she made the choice she did, but I would like to think that it was influenced by the promises (made and delivered upon) that the rest of the family would help her raise the baby without the assistance of the scumbag father.

      The real point here is that what you're accusing the other fellow of is hypocrisy. Even if he is, that doesn't make him wrong; if I say murder is wrong, and then kill someone, that doesn't make murder right.

      Consider the fact that murder of a two year old solves the problem of a mother who can't afford her kids as well as abortion of a 6th month fetus solves the same problem. Simply because an idea solves a problem doesn't make it right either.

      As far as the anybody else's damn business business, you're begging the question that the baby is a separate life. Clearly you don't think so, and he does, and so that's the point of debate.

      --
      If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
    10. Re:Great news for Health by Zerbey · · Score: 2

      Oh, look I started a debate :)

      To answer the e-mails/replies I've gotten:

      1. Abortion: I am not going to touch this with a 40ft pole apart from to say I respect everyone elses opinions on the matter.

      2. Religion: See 1, but with a bigger pole.

      3. I personally believe a baby (fetus, ugh, embryo, double ugh) becomes a living person the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg. So, taking cells from an unborn baby is against my beliefs. That's my personal opinion, and everyone is welcome to either agree or disagree with me.

      4. I am not allowed to give blood because I used to live in England but have since moved to the USA. The law states that if you have spent so much time in another country you are unable to give blood because of the risk of infection. If I had any infections severe enough to harm someone else, I'd either be dead already or vey very sick.

      Interesting discussion so far, more flames/comments on my posts are welcomed. :)

    11. Re:Great news for Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Hopefully, the law will be changed one day.

      Uh, hopefully it won't. I may have a memory like a sieve, but I don't want a brain like a sponge.

    12. Re:Great news for Health by japhmi · · Score: 1

      Adult stem cells have 2 MAJOR advantages over embryonic stem cells:

      1. No rejection. They'll take _your_ stem cells and grow them and then put them back into you. You don't need to find a match. (So, yes they can be taken from a living patient).

      2. No ethical issues. Many people have many good reasons to oppose the killing of an unborn child in order to get to stem cells. (in the process of taking stem cells from an unborn child you kill the child)

      From what I hear (my wife's a biologist) they are actually finding that Adult stem cells may be much easier to work with, and that embryonic ones are a dead end (no pun intended).

      --
      "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
    13. Re:Great news for Health by override11 · · Score: 1

      Very true, and thought provoking for me after reading your reply. :) I guess what my true feeling is that, regardless of if the baby is a life yet or not, it is 100% the mothers personal choice, and not anyone else's business (imho).

      I am not saying he is a hypocrit, but I dont think he is in any position to have a problem with a womans choice in any way at all.

      Thank you for your thoughtful reply. :)

      --
      No I didnt spell check this post...
    14. Re:Great news for Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Excellent post. I commend you on your reasonableness. I do have one quibble.

      If I had any infections severe enough to harm someone else, I'd either be dead already or vey very sick.


      Perhaps you are correct, but you seem not take into consideration that you could be a carrier for many diseases without developing the symptoms of those diseases yourself.
    15. Re:Great news for Health by pogen · · Score: 1, Troll
      a baby does not have the ability to consent to such a procedure.

      That's what parents are for. Seriously. A U.S. citizen cannot give legal consent to much of *anything* until they are 18 years old. The parents' consent will almost always trump the child's refusal. So, the inability of an embryo to give consent is irrelevant.

    16. Re:Great news for Health by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 2

      Most babies are aborted for a reason, and its none of anyone else's damn business if a woman decides to abort her baby.

      Uh, yes it is. Do you think it's also none of anyone's "damn business" if a woman decides to abort a baby after it's born? A three month old?

      You are so quick to make that decision

      Easy decision.

      do you want the mothers who cant afford their kids, or know they will be unable to raise them, to bring them to your door to pay for / love / raise them as your own??

      So poor children should be killed while wealthy children should be able to live? If they can't afford their kids, then they should be put up for adoption.

      I would say if you have this 'big ethical problem' about taking stem cells from an unborn baby, you just stay at home and quit thinking about it, because its happening whether you want it too or not.

      For now, you're right, just like abortion. But there was a time when black people weren't defined to be human. "Hey, if you don't like slavery, then don't own slaves. It's none of anyone else's damn business if I decide to own slaves. It's a matter of personal choice."

      Unborn children are the last human beings that are not fully recognized as human. I fully believe that someday unborn children will have a recognized legal right for temporary joint ownership of the mother's body. And that's the way it should be.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    17. Re:Great news for Health by eclectus · · Score: 1

      4. I am not allowed to give blood because I used to live in England but have since moved to the USA. The law states that if you have spent so much time in another country you are unable to give blood because of the risk of infection. If I had any infections severe enough to harm someone else, I'd either be dead already or vey very sick.

      Actually, it depends on which country you have been to. You can (in Florida at least) give blood if you haven't been to some European countries (ones that have Mad Cow outbreaks, including England), or most African Countries (Aids Risks, I guess). I lived in Japan for 6 years and can donate blood. (As I type this, the pressure bandage is still on my arm from donating today)

      --
      This signature is a waste of 42 characters
    18. Re:Great news for Health by Zerbey · · Score: 2

      Nah, the Central Florida Bloodbank people who are parked outside my office right now said no :(

    19. Re:Great news for Health by multimed · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Why do you have a big ethical problem? Most babies are aborted for a reason, and its none of anyone else's damn business if a woman decides to abort her baby

      What about the father? I'd say it's very much his damn business. Ignoring the main point of contention, (at what point the cells are a baby or human) if your argument is that this mass of cells belongs to the mother to do what she pleases, tell me why half of it does not belong to the father? If you want to play this as a property rights game then at least part of the fetus belongs to the father.

      FWIW, being a brand new father, I don't in the least agree with this "it" business and am merely trying to objectifiy what I consider a human for the sake of dicussion and because I understand that this is my opinion and others disagree. I would love to hear some one tell me that my daughter was any less human than them when she would get the hiccups while she was still in the womb.

      --
      Vote Quimby.
    20. Re:Great news for Health by br0ck · · Score: 1
      4. I'd either be dead already or vey very sick
      This ban on donating blood for people that have been to England is specifically to deal with mad cow disease (BSE/vCJD). This disease is thought to have a 30 year incubation. You may in fact be contagious and infected, but feel zero symptoms for many more years. More info is available in the FAQ or in the list of all New Scientist vCJD articles.
    21. Re:Great news for Health by swillden · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I guess what my true feeling is that, regardless of if the baby is a life yet or not, it is 100% the mothers personal choice, and not anyone else's business

      It's certainly the mother's choice *before* she conceives. After she has made that choice, she still has a say, but the question gets more complicated.

      And don't start man-bashing me. My view allows for extenuating circumstances to be considered, but my wife holds an unequivocal position: Unless the child is the result of rape/incest, or the life of the mother is endangered, a woman who chooses to engage in activities that lead to pregnancy is fully responsible for seeing that the child is born whole and healthy and is cared for and raised appropriately (adoption is a very good option). I also place the same responsibility on the father; my wife says that's true, but the woman should realize that it's easier for the man to walk away and should act accordingly.

      Regardless of the details, the principle of the matter is that people must be responsible for their own actions. Men and women should not be allowed to make a baby and then to simply disavow all responsibility for it. Sorry, you make the choices, you get to deal with the natural consequences. Taking a human life is, generally, not an acceptable approach to dealing with consequences. Why should this situation be different?

      The best course of action is for the mother to accept that she has screwed up the next few months of her life, deal with that, and give the child to someone else. There are *plenty* of people who are *eager* to take those children, love them, and raise them as their own.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    22. Re:Great news for Health by mark-t · · Score: 2
      Wrong.

      A pregant 15 year old girl can choose to whether or not to get an abortion. Guess what? It doesn't matter what her folks want. She gets the say, every single time, even if it is in diametric opposition to her parent's view.

      Many other institutions/systems are in place in North America where participation is *strictly* voluntary. A parent cannot legally trump a child's decision to refuse to participate in these things.

      Following this line of reasoning, it would be evident that "living" is not voluntary -- you get no say on whether you get to live or not. Whether or not you had the ability to object to it is irrellevant, since babies can't object to being murdered either, yet few here (I would hope) would see it as a terrible crime to murder a baby for any reason, let alone just because caring for it was too much of an inconvenience.

      I don't want to get in an argument here... I just want to leave you with some questions to think about. Feel free to email me if you want to discuss it further. So... if an embryo has no right to live, then why, exactly, should any person who happens to be an invonvenience or burden have a right to continue to exist. Because they are human beings? What makes being human special in the first place? Why does the perception of *what* we are change once we exit the womb? Except for the fact that we are no longer directly dependant on the mother to continue to exist, how are we really any different?

      Like I said... I don't want to get into an argument here. Slashdot is not the place for it -- if you want to try and convince me of the folly of my views, my email can be deciphered above.

    23. Re:Great news for Health by swillden · · Score: 2

      If I had any infections severe enough to harm someone else, I'd either be dead already or vey very sick.

      Not necessarily. I'm also not allowed to donate blood, but in my case the restriction makes sense: A little over 10 years ago I had typhus (worst two weeks of my life) and there's a high probability that I will forever carry enough typhus virii that I could be dangerous to someone. Remember Typhoid Mary? I'm not like that, I'm not generally contagious, but someone who's already in bad shape who got a mild dose of typhus from my blood could end up much worse off than before.

      Given that there are plenty of donors around who don't had any clear risk factors that would make them potential disease carriers, it's very sensible to refuse any that are questionable.

      That said, I've never hear that simply living in a foreign country for a while would disqualify you: My wife lived in Italy for 18 months and she donates blood. I lived in Mexico for two years and if I hadn't contracted typhus I would still be permitted to donate. It must be that you lived in a particular region during a particular period.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    24. Re:Great news for Health by Jennifer+E.+Elaan · · Score: 1
      Let me be the first to thank you on your wonderful viewpoint.

      I personally consider myself to be both, simultaneously, pro-choice and pro-life. Abortion is wrong (except in a few specific cases), but adoption is fine.

      Then again, my feelings may be skewed, being one of those unfortunate infertile women who still want to have children some day.

    25. Re:Great news for Health by pogen · · Score: 2
      Wrong. A pregant 15 year old girl can choose to whether or not to get an abortion.

      One counterexample, or even a dozen, would not refute my point, because my point was not absolute. I said "much of anything" and "almost always." Besides, a 15-year old is a far cry from an embryo... The ability to communicate, first of all, is a necessary (but not sufficient) condition for the ability to give any type of consent.

      The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think that the issue of "consent" is really where your problem lies. Are you also concerned about a full-term infant's inability to consent to the mother getting an epidural during childbirth? What about a newborn's inability to consent to being put up for adoption? Or the countless other decisions unilaterally imposed upon infants by their parents before they are old enough to communicate anything more than sophisticated than sleepy, hungry, and wet? And on into childhood...

      Your response to me, and other comments you've made in this thread, hint at another reason behind your stance on this issue. However, I'm not getting into it, because it is ultimately a metaphysical debate, unwinnable by either side. My point is simply that the question of the embryo's consent is a red herring.

    26. Re:Great news for Health by mark-t · · Score: 2
      I think you have me confused with someone else. The post to which you responded was, until this one, the only comment I had made on this thread.

      Your issue on my counterexample is well taken. I misread your prior post to mean that you held that children had no rights to independant choice. Yes, in general, a parent or guardian can legally veto a child's choice. However, the question remains, should a parent have the right to decide whether their children live or die? And the biggie... at what point are you considered a person, and what non-subjective justification exists for choosing that point?

      This has gotten off topic. If you want to respond further, decode my email address above, I won't respond further here.

    27. Re:Great news for Health by srmalloy · · Score: 2
      Is extracting stem cells for bone marrow just as good as from fetuses? Can it be taken for a living patient? I have a big ethical problem with taking stem cells from an unborn baby, simply because a baby does not have the ability to consent to such a procedure.

      My father went through this procedure recently, as part of an experimental cancer treatment (in his case, mantle-cell lymphoma). After three sessions of chemotherapy, they extracted stem cells from him to be cultured, then his bone marrow was killed, after which the cultured stem cells were returned.

      The short-term results look good; he's recovered most of his appetite, and his immune system came back up nicely (unlike the chemotherapy treatments, where he was severely debilitated and immunocompromised for some time after the treatment). Whether the treatment succeeded in destroying the cancer is something that we're going to have to watch for the foreseeable future.
    28. Re:Great news for Health by Saeger · · Score: 1
      Maternal instincts nagging you eh? Just adopt and worry about passing on memes rather than genes. Or become a catlady (bad joke, I know).

      My position on abortion is simple: I feel nothing for "potentially human" blobs of babygoo, but my emotional empathy for life increases as the baby's brain develops the capacity for sentience late-term. In fact, babies don't recognize themselves in a mirror until around their 18th month.

      (I hold the same respect for a lumpy zygote as I do a braindead vegetable teenager being kept "alive" in a hospital by emotionally attached parents...)

      --

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    29. Re:Great news for Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most babies are aborted for a reason, and its none of anyone else's damn business if a woman decides to abort her baby.

      Uh, yes it is. Do you think it's also none of anyone's "damn business" if a woman decides to abort a baby after it's born? A three month old?


      Someone really needs to look up the word "birth" in a dictionary. The difference between before and after birth is pretty clear-cut.

      While you're at it, look up "fetus" and "embryo" as well. It's only a "baby" after it's born.

      do you want the mothers who cant afford their kids, or know they will be unable to raise them, to bring them to your door to pay for / love / raise them as your own??

      So poor children should be killed while wealthy children should be able to live? If they can't afford their kids, then they should be put up for adoption.


      While you're at it, look up the word "children" as well. "Fetus" and "Child" are not the same thing.

    30. Re:Great news for Health by Some+Dumbass... · · Score: 2

      Embryonic stem cells are not taken from unborn babies, they are taken from embryos, preferably while still undifferentiated.

      [snip]

      Note, the whole point of embryonic, is so one can clone a patient and while the cloned cells are still in undifferentiated stage, use them for treatment to avoid rejection. This is far different from your implication of somehow extracting them from a baby.


      It is important to note that one of the major victories of the pro-life faction (at least in the U.S.) is that everything that's not still "sperm" or "egg" is commonly referred to as a "baby". That includes embryos, blastocytes, and fetuses, whether they are in a womb, or test-tube, or elsewhere.

      This common tendancy is useful when discussing issues related to abortion. As you pointed out, "stem cells harvested from a baby" is not the same as "stem cells harvseted from an embryo". People have a clear image of what a baby is (a "goo goo"-ing little person in a pink or blue fuzzy outfit) which is evoked every time a discussion relating to abortion comes up, whether or not it is actually applicable. In this case, it most certainly is not applicable. Like you said, you can only get embryonic stem cells from an embryo. But, even though it makes no sense to talk about "babies" in this contex, sure enough, someone brought them up. It's a clever use of the power of imagery to obscure the real issue.

    31. Re:Great news for Health by shaitand · · Score: 2

      I agree, someone who makes a baby should be responsible. But since this isn't a discussion about babies but rather a sack of cells which hasn't formed into a baby or anything else but rather only has the potential to do so (the very fact they've not yet formed into anything let alone a baby being what makes them useful.) this is kind of a mute point. We are talking about a collection of cells no more a baby, in fact, LESS a baby than sperm.

    32. Re:Great news for Health by shaitand · · Score: 2

      Well since your just replacing the DNA in the sack of goo and then using it for it's original purpose (to make a baby) abortion shouldn't really factor in. If anything your preventing abortion. As for cloning, I've yet to hear any actual fact based data for why it shouldn't be done.

    33. Re:Great news for Health by shaitand · · Score: 2

      It's quite simple, we are no different than any other creature (on earth or anywhere else) it goes further than that. We are just made up of spare parts that exist in rocks. That's right, we are nothing more spectacular than a rock. And we are certainly no more spectacular than an animal. An arm is just an arm, any sentimental attachment to a mindless hunk of flesh is as ridiculous as crying because of the outcome of a movie. Swapping out arms should have no more moral/ethical/emotional attachment than swapping out hard drives. We are machines that are made out of biological materials rather than silicon.. nothing special.

    34. Re:Great news for Health by shaitand · · Score: 2

      "if an embryo has no right to live"

      This would be a factor in the discussion if embryo's were sentient living things rather than sacks of basic unformed cells that have not become anything.

      "What makes a human special in the first place?"

      Nothing.

      "why, exactly should any person who happens to be an inconvience or burden have a right to continue to exist"

      If they are a burden or inconvience due to a genetic flaw they shouldn't. Those who are able should not pick up the slack. It's part of the way we evolve. If those who are not genetically flawed and are capable of surviving individually or carrying their own weight in a cooperative structure of survival, work to keep those cannot in the picture we are working to thwart natures process for improving our species. This is bad news and something we shouldn't be tampering with.

    35. Re:Great news for Health by swillden · · Score: 2

      But since this isn't a discussion about babies but rather a sack of cells which hasn't formed into a baby or anything else but rather only has the potential to do so (the very fact they've not yet formed into anything let alone a baby being what makes them useful.) this is kind of a mute point.

      The relevant question is "When does life begin?", and you're presuming a different answer to that question than I do. Can you amplify on your answer? If an embryo is not a baby, at what ontogenetic point does it become a baby?

      The poster I was responding to claimed that the question wasn't relevant, i.e., that it didn't matter if it was a baby or a human life or whatever, that it was still absolutely the mother's choice if she wanted to keep it or destroy it. That was the view I was addressing, not the question of when life begins.

      We are talking about a collection of cells no more a baby, in fact, LESS a baby than sperm.

      How is an embryo LESS a baby than sperm? That makes no sense.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    36. Re:Great news for Health by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      > > What makes a human special in the first place?"
      > Nothing.

      Laconic, but wrong. I believe in Jesus, but even from a secular perspective (the perspective used in this post) nature itself makes it plain that we're different (as in "special") from other species. If you still disagree, I take it that you're either a vegetarian , or that you don't see anything wrong with hunting humans for food.

      > > "If an embryo has no right to live"
      > This would be a factor in the discussion if
      > embryo's were sentient living things rather
      > than sacks of basic unformed cells that have
      > not become anything.

      Fetuses feel pain, sleep, play - they *are* sentient. In fact, some fetuses killed in a Partial Birth Abortion procedure are old enough to survive a premature delivery. Yet, the fetus is pulled out of the mother (with the head kept in the vagina so it's not officially "a baby" yet), and THEN aborted. Of course, they wiggle to resist the surgeon's knife as it's jammed into their neck... just as you or I would. Is this sentient enough for you yet?
      Plus, as someone else asked, at what point in time does a fetus transform from a "clump of cells" to a "human"? The point of conception is the safest choice.

      Something does not have to be sentient to be human. Just because a man is mentally retarded, does not mean he deserves to die. Similary, just because a 15-year old bimbo has better communication skills than her unborn child, does not mean the fetus deserves to die on the say-so of his mum.

      > If those who are not genetically
      > flawed and are capable of surviving
      > individually or carrying their own weight in a
      > cooperative structure of survival, work to keep
      > those cannot in the picture we are working to
      > thwart natures process for improving our
      > species. This is bad news and something we
      > shouldn't be tampering with.

      This was Hitler's philosophy. Let that, at least, make you pause for thought.

    37. Re:Great news for Health by shaitand · · Score: 2

      "nature itself makes it plain that we're different (as in "special") from other species"

      In what way? Intelligence? We are not the most intelligent animal on earth science has shown that distinction to belong to a creature of the sea, not use. We just happen to be among the higher and have hands and thumbs.

      "Fetuses feel pain, sleep, play - they *are* sentient."

      Interesting, it'd more interesting if we were talking about fetuses and not embryo but hey this is slashdot right?

      "This was Hitler's philosophy. Let that, at least, make you pause for thought."

      Simply because hitler believed something that means I shouldn't? Sorry I don't work on that basis, give me some kind of actual basis for your belief that hitler was wrong in this, then we'll talk. The only thing I see wrong with hitler's belief here is he "cooked" the science and started off with an unbased belief that a race was inferior without true scientific basis for that belief. I don't believe we should kill off those with genetic defects per say, but rather let them survive on their own. Apparently you do as well, you support my belief by standing by those who would hinder medical science and prevent it's ability to help those people. Talk is cheap, if disagree with me then back those who fight to help prevent genetic defects and those who seek to compensate for them with technology on the basis it will help those people. My reasons for backing it are different, I believe in the pursuit of knowledge in it's own sake is essential to the survival of the species... this is what we have brains for (whether you believe some god or nature provided them) it's to think, to reason, to learn, to experiment.

    38. Re:Great news for Health by shaitand · · Score: 2

      sperm has formed into what it's intended to be, it's as developed as it gets, sperm is fully grown so to speak. It's basically a collection of data that will transfered to a baby (that's not all it does but it's the part I was refering to). In analogy, if you were making a loaf of bread, sperm would be like the flour. Flour is already there, it is what its' going to become. An embryo is like the dough, even after it's shaped (which it's not) it still hasn't become anything other than a lump of dough. It's not until it comes out of the over that it's a loaf of bread.

    39. Re:Great news for Health by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      > > "nature itself makes it plain that we're different (as in "special") from other species"
      > In what way? Intelligence? We are not the most intelligent animal
      > ...
      > science has shown that distinction to belong to a creature of the sea, not use. We just happen
      > to be among the higher

      Yes - intelligence. But primarily - morality. Don't you think that percepts like "do not murder" or "do not covet what is someone else's" or "love your neighbour as you would love yourself" are inherently "good", and worthy of being obeyed? You don't exactly decide to obey them after examining the results of sophisticated genetic-algorithm societial simulation -- you just "know" they are "good" - right?

      BTW, what "sea-animal" is it that you say is more intelligent than human beings? And how was this determined?

      > > "Fetuses feel pain, sleep, play - they *are* sentient."
      > Interesting, it'd more interesting if we were
      > talking about fetuses and not embryo but hey
      > this is slashdot right?
      Right :). I apologize. You guys were talking about embryos, and I spoke about fetuses by mistake (a fetus is definied here as an unborn baby older than eight weeks). Do you support aborting embryos but not aborting fetuses? Also, what is your position on the partial birth abortion procedure on fetuses (described in my previous post and repeated below for convenience)?
      _____________________
      Fetuses feel pain, sleep, play - they *are* sentient. In fact, some fetuses killed in a Partial Birth Abortion procedure are old enough to survive a premature delivery. Yet, the fetus is pulled out of the mother (with the head kept in the vagina so it's not officially "a baby" yet), and THEN aborted. Of course, they wiggle to resist the surgeon's knife as it's jammed into their neck... just as you or I would.
      _____________________

      In the case of embryos, consider that a Time magazine article ("Inside The Womb", Dec 9, 2002), notes that the embryo at 42 days (or 6 weeks) has nerve endings, a forebrain, midbrain, and hindbrain, heart, hand... the embryo's nervous system starts existing at 23 days! Do you support abortions on this unborn child?

      > > "This was Hitler's philosophy. Let that, at least, make you pause for thought."
      > Simply because hitler believed something that
      > means I shouldn't? Sorry I don't work on that
      > basis, give me some kind of actual basis for
      > your belief that hitler was wrong in this, then
      > we'll talk.

      Firstly, see point on morality above.

      Secondly, empirically-speaking, Nazi Germany and Japan were superior to many other nations. Germany was (still is) an industrial giant compared to the Eastern European countries. Japan was (and still is) an industrial giant compared to the countries to it's west. However, my point is that this does NOT matter. To do right, we have to treat all human beings as equals.

      The real reason we know that this position is valid (and you were given a conscience that "knew" this too), is because (switching to a less secular argument here) - God desires us to be merciful. And God hates the arrogant - whether it be Nazis exterminating "lower races" and pushing for "living space", or the Japanese carrying out dissections on living Chinese "logs". WWII was but a mild judgement on them, compared to the one that is to come soon on the entire world.

      I really cannot elaborate anymore - if your conscience is already so seared that you still don't get why evil is evil, you're lost. I hope this is not the case.

      > I don't believe we should kill off those with
      > genetic defects per say, but rather let them
      > survive on their own.
      Eh? What do you mean? Do you turn out your autistic child to live in caves and scrounge for his own food, while feeding your able-bodied kids (in the hope they will do likewise to you in your old age)?

      > I believe in the pursuit of knowledge in it's
      > own sake is essential to the survival of the
      > species
      Yes, pursuit of knowledge is certainly good...
      > this is what we have brains for
      > (whether you believe some god or nature
      > provided them) it's to think,
      Yes...
      > to reason,
      Yes...
      > to learn,
      Yes...
      > to experiment.
      Yes, but NOT on other less-fortunate human beings - whether they be embryos or fully-grown Jews and Chinese!

    40. Re:Great news for Health by shaitand · · Score: 2

      We will certainly never agree on these issues. Our basic viewpoints are different on one key issue and the rest of our differing viewpoints stem from there. I do not believe in inherent morality, these are not things I believe are naturally right or wrong. These are things which are blatantly the result of input. Like any learning system our brain takes certain stimuli, processes it, contrasts and compares it to previous stimuli and produces results. These build on eachother, are sorted and categorized in various ways. "do not murder" we justify this constantly and call it war, many entire civilizations in the past have had human sacrifice and canabalism as perfectly acceptable and in fact routine practices. These people are not "evil" they've simply built in different ways and have different beliefs. They do not hold the humna animal as special over other animals the way that you do.

      Your religious beliefs I'm not concerned with, your arrogance with the term "God" as if that should immediately designate your deity does not particulary interest me. If you are a follower of judism or christianity then I've already looked into your religion and there is more than sufficient evidence to disprove it. There is not sufficient evidence to disprove a supreme being of some sort, or even the one that actually forms the basis of the religion the jews stole and adapted from the egyptians but I'm not really in the mood for a religious debate.

      I agree, all human beings are equal, they are equal to eachother, equal to , no better, no worse.

      You see I do not believe there is a god behind the scenes who created man to rule the animals, I just believe that man is the animal which is currently dominate from his own perception. It could be reasonably argued that cockroaches or virus are doing better than us but again a seperate issue.

      The porpous(sp?) was determined to most likely be more intelligent than us btw, you can do a google search on it if you like and get much more info (and admittedly probably more accurate than my memory) on the subject.

      ok with that out of the way, back to the real discussion of the moment ;) Just for reference before I go into this, I'd like to say that I'm pro-choice but not pro-abortion, there is a difference. I believe neither, you, nor I, and most definately not the government have any right to tell the woman next door whether or not she has the right to have an abortion. Personally I would not choose to abort under most circumstances. But we aren't talking about abortion we are talking about harvesting stem cells from already aborted embryo. What do I believe is the point at which the thing growing in a woman becomes a human baby? Natural Birth, that's when nature decided it's a complete independent human baby so why should I agrue? When does it become a human being? At full physical brain development, several years after birth. When is it an adult human being? Complete sexual organ development. When a female is capable of becoming pregnant, or a male capable getting a female pregnant, that's what I consider an adult.

      "Of course, they wiggle to resist the surgeon's knife as it's jammed into their neck... just as you or I would."

      Then again, so would a lab rat, a cat, a dog, a monkey, a fish, etc.

  13. Correct me if I'm wrong, but.... by MercuryWings · · Score: 1
    ...I've heard about this article quite a while ago, back when 'Dubya' cut government support for fetal stem cell research. At the time it was the general consensus that fetal stem cell research was still necessary because (adult) bone marrow stem cell development was still too unreliable. There were many appeals to keep funding the fetal stem cells until the bone marrow stem cell techniques were improved to the degree that they could supplement/replace fetal stem cells in research.

    The only thing I am confused about is why this article is on /. now, when this isn't breaking news, by any measure.

    --
    Karma: Shagadelic (mostly affected by those tight knickers - yeah baby, yeah!)
  14. Pretty well known in pro-life circles by MPolo · · Score: 5, Informative
    I've been hearing about this sort of result for some time in prolife circles, but it seems to be silenced by the mainstream media. I still don't know how much ideology is involved, though.

    Essentially, the embryonic stem cells have failed to produce very promising results because of rejection or tumor formation (in many cases). Adult stem cells, which are pluripotential (not totipotential), have no rejection problems because they are autologously donated. Searching Google on "bone marrow stem cells" produces a variety of results, like this plea for funding from a Russian biologist: Why cloning? or this from Science Daily or Bone Marrow Stem Cells can become almost anything.

    1. Re:Pretty well known in pro-life circles by dillon_rinker · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I really get sick of the anti-infanticide movement being called "pro-life". They are nor pro-anything - they are just opposed to a woman's right to choose infanticide.

    2. Re:Pretty well known in pro-life circles by Necromancyr · · Score: 1

      One of the ways around this is developing non-reactive cells (which could be derived from alteration of totipotent fetal stem cells more easily then adult ones) through genetic modification. It's already been done in pigs. I'm not positive how far its come thus far, but the work would be incredibly easier/move faster if it was to be done with human stock material.

    3. Re:Pretty well known in pro-life circles by szquirrel · · Score: 1

      Articles like this that are trumpeted by pro life groups tend to leave out some key points:

      Neural tissue is the big holy grail of stem cell research since it is pretty much impossible to transplant adult neurons. Unfortunately in most cases the neuron-like cells grown from bone marrow stem cells do not seem able to transmit nerve impulses.

      And don't forget that embryonic stem cells have other uses. By watching how these cells differentiate, scientists can track how initial flaws in the development process can lead to tumor growth.

      Bone marrow stems cells are definitely useful and deserve a lot more study. But recent research on embryonic stem cells has been much more promising in the realm of treatment for diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

      --
      Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
    4. Re:Pretty well known in pro-life circles by SeanAhern · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um, wouldn't being opposed to infanticide be pretty much "pro-life"? I mean, the whole point is that they want to keep the infant alive. That's pretty much the definition of "pro-life". They are for life.

    5. Re:Pretty well known in pro-life circles by Zebbers · · Score: 2, Insightful

      you do know infanticide != abortion, right? The reason the prolife movement is called prolife is that the basis for most antiabortion arguments is that the fetus or embryo or whatever they deem the point humanity begins, has an inherent right-to-life that overrules the womans right to choose over her body. Go take a class or something. DA.

  15. I need a new spine... by BigZaphod · · Score: 1

    Timely. I got to work today and my back gave out right at the 9:00 morning meeting. A coworker rushed me to the chiropractor and I was told to go home and spend the day lying down. I've had back problems for years now and I'm only 23. This sucks. Sure, I get a day off work, but I'm in so much pain I'd rather be bored there than bored here. At least I have a powerbook. Otherwise I don't know what I'd do....

    I really hope this kind of technology can fix this someday soon. It just hurts so bad...

    1. Re:I need a new spine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we have a guy in our office like you too.

      Every friday, without fail, his back problems act up. Funny how that works.

      Good ole No-Show-Friday down in marketing. If he had a real job (with actual work to do) he'd be standing in line for food stamps right now.

      Oh well.

      Go back to work you lazy motherfucker.

    2. Re:I need a new spine... by BigZaphod · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ever had back problems fuck head? No? Go to hell. You have no idea what its like.

    3. Re:I need a new spine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi, my name's karma, I hear a few /.ers need some back adjustments...

      *CRACK, CRACK*
      there we go.

  16. CSMC by hether · · Score: 5, Informative

    Cedars-Sinai is pretty involved in stem cell research on a variety of levels. Do a search for stem cells on their site and you'll come up with tons of stuff.

    They offer Stem Cell/Bone Marrow Transplantation as a part of their other transplantation services. Here is their FAQ about the process. http://www.csmc.edu/bloodmarrow/859.asp

    Not exactly what the article is talking about though.

    --

    Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
  17. Now we know why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    G*d took the rib from Adam.

    1. Re:Now we know why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      So he wouldn't have to abort baby Jesus?

    2. Re:Now we know why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Baby Jesus was aborted for your sins, sinner.

      I'm not a sinner because I follow the book of leviticus TO-THE-T!

    3. Re:Now we know why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'm not a sinner because I follow the book of leviticus TO-THE-T!

      You mean "levi"?

  18. THIS is why RESEARCH is important by gosand · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I am going off the assumption that this story is true, but the fact remains that things like this have happened in other areas of science as well. RESEARCH allows scientists to innovate and come up with new techniques/treatments/solutions. Imagine that stem cell research had been stopped in the beginning because of "ethical" objections.

    I think the same scenario can be applied to the tech world - if you stifle research, you stifle innovation. You stop someone from investigating digital security (DMCA) and you prevent security from progressing.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:THIS is why RESEARCH is important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You stop someone from investigating digital security (DMCA) and you prevent security from progressing.

      Umm... isn't that what the government wants? Haven't you been reading lately about the Total Information Awareness effort?

    2. Re:THIS is why RESEARCH is important by martyros · · Score: 1
      As one of the posters above commented, pro-lifers have known and favored adult stem-cell research for a long time. AFAIK, there are no "ethical" objections to stem cells in themselves, only how they were gotten -- by depriving a human being of life. For adult stem cells, this would be the ethical equivalent of a skin graft, or at worst a transplant, I would think.

      People have been hoping for break-through cures from embryonic stem cells; but there's no direct evidence that there will be any, only hopes and guesses. And while the ethics of cloning and embryonic stem cells are being debated, wouldn't it be at least practical to RESEARCH all the other alternatives firt?

      --

      TCP: Why the Internet is full of SYN.

    3. Re:THIS is why RESEARCH is important by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What's moral and ethical in 'research' constantly evolves.

      Back in university, I did a pretty thorough study and report on Frederick Banting and how he discovered insulin. I took a little field trip down to the University of Toronto and thumbed through some of his actual research logs.

      Quick backstory:

      He expirimented on dogs, basically trying to figure out what the (at the time unknown) internal secretion of the pancreas was, what it did, and how to extract it. His expiriments were to basically remove a big chunk of the pancreas, leaving only the cells that produce the digestive juices, and see what happened. The dogs got diabetic. He figured a way to extract the juice (insulin) from the pancreas, gave it to the now diabetic dogs, and they lived.

      Anyhow. His logs are full of really shaky, obvious stuff. He was either an amazing scientist, or he was cooking the books. One test animal starts off as a cocker spaniel, and is later a german shepherd, for instance.

      It's pretty much known that he and some assistants would scour the streets at night, abducting stray animals for their expiriments.

      Now, back on topic. His behaviours were highly unethical in many ways by todays standards. I don't see any university letting you dognap animals to test out theories on them, let alone replacing a test animal because another died in surgery and not making any sort of note of that.

      But, he discovered insulin. If we could go back and stop his unethical research, perhaps millions would still be dying of what is now a managable disease because of his work. Do the ends justify the means?

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    4. Re:THIS is why RESEARCH is important by gosand · · Score: 3, Insightful
      But, he discovered insulin. If we could go back and stop his unethical research, perhaps millions would still be dying of what is now a managable disease because of his work. Do the ends justify the means?

      Do the ends justify the means? No.

      Did the ends justify the means in this case? Yes.

      I don't think the ends always justify the means, but you cannot deny that it was worth the sacrifice of these few animals in order to discover insulin. However, if his research had gone for naught, then it would have been a waste. The problem is, you just never have the luxury of knowing 100% what will happen. But this is a great example of why research should be allowed to happen. Of course, things should be monitored, and recorded, and regulated - but I think it has to happen. What you don't see right away is all of the research that happened because of the discovery of insulin. That could eventually lead to a cure for diabetes.

      Fascinating story by the way, I had never heard about the discovery of insulin.

      --

      My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    5. Re:THIS is why RESEARCH is important by archie77 · · Score: 1

      Just a bit OT follows: the dogs didn't offered themselves as volounteers for the experiments. It's easy to take the easier way and do nasty things like vivisection just to comply with our human needs. IMHO.

    6. Re:THIS is why RESEARCH is important by 5KVGhost · · Score: 2

      I am going off the assumption that this story is true, but the fact remains that things like this have happened in other areas of science as well. RESEARCH allows scientists to innovate and come up with new techniques/treatments/solutions. Imagine that stem cell research had been stopped in the beginning because of "ethical" objections.

      I don't know why you feel the need to use scare quotes around the word "ethical". There are of course ethical issues that must be considered in any medical research. We may not agree on exactly what limits are correct, but, not living in a technocratic dictatorship, those decisions are not always ours to make.

      OTOH, if fetal stem-cell research had been allowed to continue with no restrictions whatsoever, the potential of this bone marrow technique may not have been discovered until much later. Necessity is the mother of invention.

      I think the same scenario can be applied to the tech world - if you stifle research, you stifle innovation. You stop someone from investigating digital security (DMCA) and you prevent security from progressing.

      A flawed analogy. The objections were never to stem-cell research in general, only the source of those particular stem-cells. There's a big difference.

    7. Re:THIS is why RESEARCH is important by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've heard that Nazi scientists conducted medical experiments on Jewish prisoners (killing them in the process, etc.). Assuming this is the case, should they have stopped their experiments due to ethical considerations, or not?

      If I have a great idea for a new medical or surgical procedure, do I have the right to kidnap people in order to obtain experimental subjects upon whom to try out my idea, or should I take ethics into account? After all, so much could be learned, so many more lives could be saved than those sacrificed...

    8. Re:THIS is why RESEARCH is important by shaitand · · Score: 2

      The real question is, do the POTENTIAL ends justify the means. Absolutely. monitored, only for supplimenting recording. Recorded, absolutely otherwise what is the point? Regulated, only in the sense that an experiment must be regulated in terms of controled conditions to provide useful and conclusive results. If you mean regulation in terms of laws and bodies who yammer about ethical and moral issues, certainly not.

  19. Don't forget the other source of stem cells by lobsterGun · · Score: 5, Informative

    Fetal umbillical cord blood is rich in stem cells. If you're having a child it's worth looking into( Cord Blood Registry is a good source of information). One interesting thing to note is that stem cells harvested from cord blood can not only be used in the baby that produced them, but sometimes can be used in parents and siblings as well. This may be the case with other stem cells too, but I'm not sure.

    1. Re:Don't forget the other source of stem cells by _TheDoc_ · · Score: 1

      There's a company I've never heard of! From what I can get out of their site, it seems like the main application right now is for treating leukemias that could possibly occur in the future of the baby, and (more unlikely than people realize) their first degree relatives. They do also mention being able to use the circulating blood stem cells to treat a variety of neural illnesses, but it seems they are up against the same wall as Cedars-Sinai right now: Can we get a neural cell from a blood stem cell?

      --
      -The Doc
    2. Re:Don't forget the other source of stem cells by Wampus+Aurelius · · Score: 1

      I've heard of fetal umbilical cord donation. There was a news story on it the other day; essentially what they said was that dozens of mothers had donated their fetal blood, but funding had run out to store the blood samples, so the fetal blood being stored had to be thrown out. There was an option to have the parents themselves pay for the blood storage. Most parents figured that they had already done science a service by donating the fetal blood; most balked at having to pay to store it until more funding could be secured. I think the fee was about $15-$20 per month.

    3. Re:Don't forget the other source of stem cells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Babies For Life is a new organization that is trying to break into the umbilical stem cell market. It is completely free to the parent(s).

    4. Re:Don't forget the other source of stem cells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      viacell, another company that you probably haven't heard of either :)

    5. Re:Don't forget the other source of stem cells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had my daughter's umbilical cord frozen and I pay a monthly fee to keep it viable.

      She was adopted at birth, so I had no way of knowing if her birth parents would be available in the future (should she need blood transfusions or whatever). I felt that this was a "long shot insurance policy" and her birth mother agreed to the procedure.

      We know a little about her birth mother's medical history. Her birth father was abandoned as a child and knows nothing of his family medical history. Since then, both birth parents have vanished and the adoption workers have no idea how to contact them.

      Although I have no way of really knowing if the stem cells are being stored properly, or if they will ever be needed, I am happy to pay for their storage just in case.

  20. Takes the fun of killing unborn babies out of it! by croftj · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Wait! What good is it if an industry killing unborn babies cannot be enlarged and justified?

    --
    -- Many men would appreciate a woman's mind more if they could fondle it
  21. Ethical or No? Question of the day by -Grover · · Score: 2, Informative

    Personally, it looks to me like there are 2 very different sides of the story to this.

    On one hand you have the "Pro-Life" advocates saying that you can't justify the research since it might play a part in the death of an unborn embryo. You can read a few of those types of articles here and here to get a feel for that side of the story.

    On the flip side the AAAS has a very compelling document here in PDF format. Also CAMR has a nice little diddy about their stance here.

    Bush and the Senate seem to have made their stance on the matter known as well...so enjoy!

    There is alot of discussion, and alot remains to be seen, but I thought I'd toss out some links to help everyone form their own opinion on the matter.

  22. Od' to news.google.com by netmask · · Score: 1

    http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=stem+cell+marr ow&btnG=Search+News

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2590279.stm
    A little more info.. Goes over some uses.. Also the hope to eleviate the christians ignorance^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H moral problems.

    http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021219-122 30 4-2447r
    another article.. but doesn't really say anything new.. they just piped it through rev a couple of times, sort and uniq.. and added a few quotation marks.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/11/business/11STE M. html?ex=1040706000&en=9beb56832bf1fbe1&ei=5062&par tner=GOOGLE
    This one was posted on Dec 16th.. and appears to be the original article that set these off. Has more info on who is doing it, why, etc.

    1. Re:Od' to news.google.com by theperplepigg · · Score: 1
      for the lazy, here those are in link form:

      Google Search

      article

      another article

      ny times

      --paul

      --
      -- Every time you kill a kitten, God masturbates.
  23. New spine? by VikingBerserker · · Score: 2

    No thanks, I don't need one... if that's all right with you.

  24. Might work, but... by ToddScheetz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Everything I've read indicates that every source of adult stem cells are at least partially differentiated. This means that they could be useful for a subset of the tissues within the body. Think of it in terms of a tree (in the computational sense). Embryonic stem cells are the root of the tree. They are pleuripotent, meaning that any cell type can be generated from them. At successively lower levels of the tree, more differentiation has taken place.

    So, these adult stem cells from marrow could be useful for generating a subset of tissues. Most likely these are bone and marrow related. As an earlier poster pointed out, this could be VERY beneficial for leukemia. But the differentiation process does not appear to be reversible. At least yet!

    -Todd

  25. Cord Blood by lameland · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There is already a replacement to the embryonic stem cells: stem cells from the blood in Umbilical (Sp?) cords. If the goverment or a group of hospitals came together and saved the blood from the umbilical cords of all babies born, there wouldn't be a need form embryonic stem cell research. There are a couple of companies already storing cord blood, one of them is cryo-cell

  26. By Fetus by rosewood · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Do you mean unborn baby?

    Such as these ones
    http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionim ages/

    http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortion im ages/aborted01-24.jpg

  27. More info by xanthines-R-yummy · · Score: 1

    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/fulltex t/93521889/FILE?TPL=ftx_start If you want some technical info.

  28. Anything?!? by freeweed · · Score: 2

    post anything else you can find below.

    I'm pretty sure you don't want me to post what I found under my bed yesterday when I was cleaning...

    --
    Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
  29. Deja vu by hiero · · Score: 5, Informative

    There was an article in the Mpls Star Tribune 2 weeks ago about the University of Minnesota licensing the rights to technology for creating stem cells from human bone marrow to a biotech firm called Athersys. The U of M researchers published a paper about this procedure in the July 4th issue of Nature. Here is a link to an article (not abstract) [nature.com].

  30. bitch bitch bitch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the fuck is wrong with you stupid slashdotters ? Every single story is full of just "bitchbitchbitch" comments.

    Get a fucking life and some fucking holiday fucking spirit

  31. Not for you by Alethes · · Score: 5, Funny

    The new spines are reserved for politicians that are unable to do the right thing when faced with large sums of cash.

    1. Re:Not for you by Eccles · · Score: 1

      The new spines are reserved for politicians that are unable to do the right thing when faced with large sums of cash.

      Give a politician a spine? You'd need some *serious* anti-rejection drugs...

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
  32. Who cares? by Necromancyr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This has been known for a LONG time. The problem is the cells are no where near as effective as fetal cells because of their inability to diferentiate as well (meaning they can't become as many 'body parts' and when they can, they are normally inferior because of the way in which stem cells in the body are retained during aging).

    Also, other countries are already advancing with fetal stem cells. Take a look at annoucements from all over the world - countries that we're decades behind us are already passing us because of the religiously based rules imposed upon science by the 'Moral' politicians/lobbying groups. The cloning issues are progressing the same way. China and India are already advancing past us - and some of the most valuable scientists in the field are LEAVING the Unites States because of the limits that are being put on their research.

    All I know is people are going to have abortions - be it medically or with a coat hanger - whether I, you, the president, god, etc., agree with it. They always have, they always will. We might as well use them towards some good. Unfortunately, some people feel it's better that we say "No, its bad. I won't listen." and let the already doomed fetuses be simply thrown away. At least, until their loved one dies and they realize they could have been saved with methods derived from stem cells.

    The fact of the matter is this is the equivalent of saying "Well, we have diamons...but, take a look at this cubic zirconium...we shined it up real nice and it might be as good as a diamond." Except its NOT. Unfortunately, we're not allowed to make 'fake diamonds' (clone/in vitro fertilize) because that would be wrong too.

    (And, apologies for spelling errors...I tried to look it over, but I know I must have made a few...maybe...)

    1. Re:Who cares? by operagost · · Score: 3, Insightful
      China and India- great bastions of morality if I ever saw one.

      The decision was made by the US federal government in 2001 not to fund embryonic stem cell research. The research itself is not illegal. There are many, many corporations with deep pockets who could fund this research. Funding could have been denied for this research just as readily for a myriad of other reasons, as I imagine many are.

      The fear is that funding the research will result in some sort of "abortion banks". Maybe women will be even offered money to abort their babies, similar to how men crank out a batch at sperm banks every day for a few bucks.

      The rest of your "argument" is merely a distraction. Abortion and in vitro fertilization are legal.

      I refuse to ever compromise my moral beliefs just because morally bankrupt and spiritually dead people seem to be pulling ahead.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    2. Re:Who cares? by MobiusKlein · · Score: 1

      I seriously doubt many women will go this route. Getting an abortion (D&C) is no fun, by a long shot. Intentionally getting pregnant solely for the purpose of selling an embryo is not going to ever be common.

      More likely would be donating eggs to get fertilized in vitro. It still involves needles and outpatient surgery, but you can get more embryos per procedure, and you can get them undamaged.
      rbb

      >The fear is that funding the research will result in some sort of "abortion banks". Maybe women will be even offered money to abort their babies, similar to how men crank out a batch at sperm banks every day for a few bucks.

    3. Re:Who cares? by ChrisWong · · Score: 3, Insightful
      On the other hand, I think ideology may be at work also on the part of embryonic stem cells. The promised cures are just promises: vaporware. There are serious difficulties involved in manupilating embryonic stem cells that aren't discussed much, as this article describes. The situation now is:
      To date there is no evidence that cells generated from embryonic stem cells can be safely transplanted back into adult animals to restore the function of damaged or diseased adult tissues. The level of scientific rigor that is normally applied (indeed, legally required) in the development of potential medical treatments would have to be entirely ignored for experiments with human embryos to proceed. As our largely disappointing experience with gene therapy should remind us, many highly vaunted scientific techniques frequently fail to yield the promised results.

      So why does embryonic stem cell research -- unproven, dangerous, morally questionable and possibly unworkable -- get so much press? Adult stem cell research gets far less coverage, which is why old news like this sounds like big stuff. Instead the medical equivalent of cold fusion continues to hog the limelight.

    4. Re:Who cares? by Arcaeris · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I refuse to ever compromise my moral beliefs just because morally bankrupt and spiritually dead people seem to be pulling ahead.

      That's totally great, but that does that mean that I have to follow yours?

  33. Re:Very Cool by Necromancyr · · Score: 1

    No one ever suggested killing a fetus - or pre-fetus as it were (basically, a little round ball of cells that looks almost exactly the same in an inordinate amount of creatures, from vertebrates to invertebrates). When an abortion happened, (guess what they do, and will), the cells would be harvested from there. But, it's better to just destroy them.

  34. Speaking out of your ass by GringoGoiano · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Why? Did they put some ass stem cells in your lips?

  35. Re:Very Cool by Christianfreak · · Score: 1, Troll

    Hitler killed people that he deemed un-productive or a hinderence to society as well.

  36. Interesting quote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the sciencedaily.com article linked above:

    Dr. Yu said other recent related studies at the Institute have shown that neural stem cells are capable of tracking brain tumor cells as they spread. This is an important finding because one of the greatest challenges in treating malignant brain tumors is the fact that tumor cells often separate from the main tumor mass and migrate to form satellites. Malignant tumors also have poorly defined borders that are enmeshed in healthy tissue, making it difficult or impossible for surgeons to remove all of the cancer without damaging normal brain.

    "In our research, neural progenitor cells could clearly be seen tracking pockets of tumor cells that were migrating away from the main tumor mass," said Dr. Yu. "This clearly demonstrated the ability of neural progenitor cells to actively follow pockets of tumor cells that disseminate through the brain."

    So why don't stem cells in the bones of cancer patients just naturally migrate to the cancerous areas of the body to destroy the tumors?

  37. Suprised by old news on slashdot? by Ghoser777 · · Score: 2

    You must be new here.

    F-bacher

    --
    James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
  38. This is old news unless... by ShieldWolf · · Score: 2

    The ability to extract stem cells from an adult body is old news, but the question is does this new source of cells have the polymorphic qualities of the their fetal bretheren?

    --
    just = (My)Opinion.toCents();
  39. New spinal column? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    New spinal column, anyone?

    That doesn't even make sense. I guess they mean spinal cord. Christopher Reeve couldn't do shit with a new set of vertebra.

    I bet the submitter of this story and the editor who posted it about have an embolism when they hear a computer user call their "tower" a "CPU."

  40. Treatment for ADHD? by Fished · · Score: 2

    I noticed that, apparently, they are using this technique to treat Parkinson's, which is a result of lack of Dopamine. I wonder if this could not also be used (many years from now) to treat ADHD, which results from a Serotonin Dopamine imbalance. Anyone good with bio want to comment?

    --
    "He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
    1. Re:Treatment for ADHD? by chinton · · Score: 2
      Anyone good with bio want to comment?

      That would be cool if they could use this technique to cure my... Hey, look! Cheese! Sorry, what were we talking about?

  41. as for reinventing the wheel... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    besides some other mention of previous methods of extracting and producing stem cells go, this method in the article is really not new at all. In fact it is accurate to say that when all the debate raged full of its emotional drive and personal attacks from people's desire to further their own personal agenda... this method was mentioned many times but fell upon as deaf ears as could be found when trying to give a solution to a problem that has caused two gangs to start a blood bath. Their lust for death and destruction has overtaken all semblance of humanity, much less logic and reason and the result is that you must shout to be heard by either of them.

    The lesson here is to not put that much support into these so called scientists that become so emotional and arrogant with matters such as this. Most likely, many of the scientists arguing so fervently for embryonic stem cell research had forgotten the original point of concern and thus debate and regressed into an animalistic pattern of "My team is better than yours and you suck" in which their stubborness restricted them from seeing clearly. Their point of debate should have been about finding a solution that does not harm others (the ethical portion). This could be solved by either A) finding another solution or B) proving to all that there is actually no harm done. Instead, like all liberals they chose to act as enraged monkeys throwing poop and slapping the ground. This can be evidenced by their arrogant statements and obvious content for anyone who dares to question them or the results of their actions. All attrocities happen in this circumstance and they win no real support from anyone who employs logic and reason.

    Much like the actual debate of abortion, the real issue is avoided and actually hidden by a wall made of emotional sound bites. Liberals have their chants about "get your laws off my body" and "my body, my choice" yet ignore that their refusal to address the actual issue at hand only shows their own internal reluctance to debate the issue amongst themselves much less satisfactorily come up with a conclusion that debases the issue pressed agains them. The rest is buried in a sea of hypocricy and a very selective and ironic application of who qualifies for that "CHOICE." The ONLY argument here that is valid is: "What defines 'human' during gestation" or worded differently, "When is that growing lifeform a human?"
    Avoiding that issue and pandering to the ID of self important and narcissistic people is the tactic of rapists and murderers (not to mention Tyrants throughout history). I have seen this argument many times by wife/child beaters/molesters, murderers, thieves and other people who instead of internally accepting their own choices instead make excuses and try to alter the perspective of reality to a point that they can live with their choices. There is ALWAYS a reason for the murder, rape, etc.

    1. Re:as for reinventing the wheel... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For an argument that is supposed to contain logic and reason you sure have a lot of fallacies in there. I can several ad hominem attacks, straw men, and unsubstantiated generalizations.

    2. Re:as for reinventing the wheel... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like somebody's trigger finger slipped and landed on "interesting" when they meant "flamebait".

  42. Re:Very Cool by grub · · Score: 1


    Hitler killed people that he deemed un-productive or a hinderence to society as well.

    Yes he did, of course he wasn't the only one throughout history to do so. You get more reaction by playing "the Hitler card" though.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  43. Abbot and Costello by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 3, Funny

    Abbot: What's the name of the the doctor?
    Costello: Yu.
    Abbot: Me?
    Costello: No, Mei works in Oncology.
    Abbot: You do?
    Costello: No, no, no. Yu works on stem cells, Mei works in Oncology.
    Abbot: Well, you're certainly not in the English department.

    Etc...

  44. "Standard & Contemporary" Myeloma Treatment by rawdot · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to this stem cell transplant from the patient themselves is "standard and contemporary treatment" (in contrast to an "emerging therapy") for multiple myeloma (described here).

    I believe this is a more refined form of what used to be called a "bone marrow transplant", but someone else probably can explain that in excurciating detail. :-)

    I have friend who had this done and she is well on her way to recovery.

    Cheers,
    Richard

  45. Slashdot: where you do our work for us by revery · · Score: 5, Funny

    'Course the story has no details - post anything else you can find below.

    Translation: This sounds neat. It might be another hoax, but then we do have a reputation to keep up. I holpe the readers come through and make this an interesting article, cause right now, we got crap...

    1. Re:Slashdot: where you do our work for us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be new here :)

  46. Re:Ethical or No? Question of the day by japhmi · · Score: 1

    Actually, this shows the pro-life stance. Namely, that the same effects (getting stem cells) can be done without getting them from the unborn child. That's what the adult part of adult stem cells means.

    --
    "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
  47. This is old news by Aqua+OS+X · · Score: 2

    Medical scientists have known about adult stem cells for quite some time now. However, they are not the answer to the debate about stem cell research. As I recall, scientists have been able to do certain research with embryonic stem cells that they have not been able to reproduce with adult stem cells.

    then again... I'm a web developer, so what they heck do I know about stem cell research. All of my medical knowledge comes from the discovery channel and TLC ;).

    --
    "Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
  48. irony at its best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Netmask wrote:
    ... the hope to eleviate the christians ignorance...
  49. ~ Knock Knock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    = Who's there?
    ~ Stem Cell Collectors. May we come in?
    = I don't have any stem cells. GO away.
    ~ Sir. Did you sign an organ donation card?
    = Uhh. Yes I did actually.
    ~ Could you pull that out and take a look at it for me?
    = Weell. Alright.
    ~ On the back of the card there is a list of organs that can be collected and the very last item is Stem Cells.
    = Yes Yes Yes. but what does this have to do with me.
    ~ Oh you haven't heard? Well there is a new process whereby stem cells can be harvested from a patients bones.
    = Yes. So what. I am NOT a patient and I am at present using my bones so you cannot have them. .............

  50. What brain cells can you replace? serotonin? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know dopamine neurons can be regenerated with stem cells to help parkinsons disease, but what about the regeneration/addition of serotonin neurons for people with depression?

  51. Re:Very Cool by Christianfreak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You get more reaction by playing "the Hitler card" though.

    True, it is for reaction purposes :), but it really doesn't matter who's doing the killing, killing people because they aren't "productive members of society" is simply wrong. This country was founded on the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. There isn't supposed to be any reason those rights are taking away. Who are we to decide that someone with Down Syndrome is still not productive, as an example I have a good friend who works with autistic children, she has kids that can't communicate but given the correct tools can write stories and paint pictures. Granted autism is a lot different from Down Syndrome but who's to say we won't discover a way to communicate with people have the disease and find that they aren't as incohenrent as we thought?

    If we go down that slippery slope we aren't coming back. Who decides who is a productive member of society? The Bush Administration? I don't hate Bush (voted for him in fact) but I don't trust him to make that sort of descision. And then, where does it stop? Do we just kill people who have Down Syndrome? What about people so mentally retarded they can't communicate ... so all the people who can't communicate well that includes people that are deaf, mute and blind ... okay lets get rid of anyone born blind or deaf or mute because its obvious they aren't going to be "productive". Okay well then what about people that are partially blind, people that have to wear corrective lenses, that would include a lot of computer people (myself included!). Where does it end?

    Its obvious from your sig that you probably don't believe in a higher power so I won't give the standard "playing God" argument, but I think that even you agree that if we start taking away the right to life from "non-productive people" we then have a precedent to take it away from anyone since "non-productive" is very subjective.

    Religious reasons aside that's the problem I have with abortion, it makes society as a whole respect life even less than they already do. It's not really "alive" right? But it is alive, its made up of living tissue and created by other living things! And even if you believe its not, abortion still takes the right to life away from someone who would have had it otherwise.

  52. Nuh-uh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh darn, necro! Don't you realize that zygotes that contain the human genome are inbibed with a SOUL and all other zygotes are simple clusters of carbon/hydrogin based pro teens!?

    It's that extra .005% differenshumation in the heelix that makes all the difference!

    We truly are special! God wants you to drive a Lincoln Navigator like he does up there in Heaven! Global warming was thunk up by Satan hisself! (or was it Al Quaieda?) Same differnse.

    Sorry, I gotta go. Cheyney needs me to sign somthin'

    -George W. Bush

  53. the bottom line ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Consider one potential beneficiary of stem cell research - spinal cord injury. There are 11,000 new cases each year in the US. Each CASE has estimated lifetime costs of $2,185,000 mostly funded by insurance and medical schemes.

    That makes a potential $2.4 billion a year that could be saved in the US alone. Why aren't insurance companies *pouring* cash into stuff like stem cell research - or if they are why aren't we seeing any results.

  54. What happened to regeneration? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Stem cells seem very crude, I think the superior approach is to isolate what proteins are responsible for regeneration and use gene therapy to enable them or inject a protein into the wound. Why pull out specific stem cells when any cell can become one?

  55. New?? by spazoid12 · · Score: 1

    This is a new stem cell source because CNN hasn't reported it before? Maybe they'd rather everyone believe you have to have dead babies to further research.

    Personally, I think we should bail out the failing Russian portion of the ISS. We need the low-G environment to produce things (such as stem cells) that are much more round than on Earth! That...is true science and worth investing in. Imagine: round stuff. Very nice. No, no, don't spend money on furthering ethical sources of stem cells...we have round stuff to produce and study.

    Note: it's one of those days...I take only little responsibility for heading towards the off-topic in a meandering mess. But anyways, we have heard of this bone marrow research long before.

  56. Re: Not always, but this time they did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Note... an important difference between human embryonic stem cell extraction methods and the methods used for insulin... dogs != humans.

    While I do no advocate unnecessary cruelty to animals, I think instances like this are wholly different from killing children.

  57. "extracted from the patient him/herself" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there a HOWTO how a patient can extract it him/herself?

  58. Quality Bone Marrow by MoonFacedAssassin · · Score: 1

    ...extract renewable stem cells from bone marrow...

    <Cartman>: This is some quality bone marrow here Dan. Come on Dan. You're breakin' my balls here Dan. Seriously. The balls...broken.

    --
    I am a meat popsicle.
  59. Old News by imgigo · · Score: 1

    This bone marrow extraction technique was published in Nature in June out of the University of Minnesota headed by Dr. CATHERINE M. VERFAILLIE. Nature was very careful to address pros and cons and publish the work along with embryonic stem cell work in order to prevent the appearance of taking sides in the alleged moral debate. They even provided an introductory essay on the topic. See links below: http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/n ature/journal/v418/n6893/full/nature00870_fs.html http://www.nature.com/nature/links/020704/020704-2 .html http://www.nature.com/nature/stemcells/index.html http://www.nature.com/nature/stemcells/

  60. Other sources by boatboy · · Score: 1

    Other sources for stem cells include fat rolls, and as somebody else mentioned, umbilical cords.

  61. MOD THIS GUY UP ^^^ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The immunoresponse against implanted "products" of fetal stem cells is [currently] an enormous challenge which may well be insurmountable.

    Why is this problem played-down in the majority of reporting on this issue?

    And, why is the promising research and successes on adult stem cells given such short shrift?

  62. you are avoiding the issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The issue has never been about efficiency or purity of the research (from a productivity standpoint). The issue is harm to humans and therefore the debate is "what defines a human."

    The fact of the matter is this is the equivalent of saying "Well, we have diamons...but, take a look at this cubic zirconium...we shined it up real nice and it might be as good as a diamond." Except its NOT. Unfortunately, we're not allowed to make 'fake diamonds' (clone/in vitro fertilize) because that would be wrong too.
    No, your analogy would only work if using diamonds resulted in the death of others. There is no doubt that diamonds are superior in every aspect (except cost of course) to cubic zirconium however. Ethics is not about doing everything you can, but is instead the issue of weighing the costs of your action. Look at drugs (notice I didn't say "take them", just look at them ain't they purty?!) A good doctor would never give a drug to a patient that while it affected one symptom caused another actual injury or illness. (note that I am differentiating here between symptoms (pain, eschema) and injury or illness (tumor, bruise))

    As for not being able to make "fake diamonds" that is another matter that too should be debated with the real issues in mind and therefore not done by many who post here (who resort to emotional and very short term/scope views on the issues). Just as some say "No, its bad. I won't listen" you have those that say such to the ethical arguments... or even to the empirically proven results. Get rid of the "sides" of the issue and focus on facts. In the absence of facts do not resort to making any assumptions if you cannot then accept the assumptions of others.

    As for people having abortions... well this could actually be compared to the fact that rapes and murders will always happen, sad is it may be. However it is important to remember that if I kill some newborn baby (that is 6 - 8 weeks premature) then dump its body off to be harvested for various goodies... I will hopefully have my balls ripped off slowly and die a very slow and painful death. Yet if we go back a couple of weeks in development (or to many, there is no requirement to go back at all) then it is perfectly acceptable to willingly kill this lifeform and then walk in and out of the body dump with no consequence at all. Deep thoughts? Well to many it is, and those that refuse to look into themselves nor matters such as this do not deserve the right to make any decisions or express their opinions on the matter (at least in a manner that said opinions affect others, like voting and lobbying).

    Should we implement a soylent green policy for dead bodies now?

    1. Re:you are avoiding the issue by CaseyB · · Score: 2
      No, your analogy would only work if using diamonds resulted in the death of others.

      It absolutely does.

      (Not that it's relevant to the argument at hand.)

  63. Yes, absolutely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and the drugs name is "Beer"

  64. been doing this for awhile by AssFace · · Score: 1

    I own stock in a company that has been fighting patent and legal issues with this (AASTROM BIOSCIENCES INC [NASDAQ SC : ASTM ]).

    There is so much controversy around the stem cell research and the funding of it, that even though the stuff they do doesn't involve "killing off babies" (not how I look at it, but how it is seen by many conservatives that apparently don't read much on cognitive development - or don't trust what they read) - they still run into many stopping blocks.

    all that said, I also question how well the company is being run, but apprently I don't quesiton it enough to sell of my shares in it.

    --

    There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
  65. What ever happened to fat tissue? by ManoMarks · · Score: 1

    I seem to remember about a year ago, or so, there was some research on stem cells in fat tissue. I'd be happy to donate some of mine for medical research, I imagine you'd have lots of people willing to donate. And isn't liposuction a little easier than taping somone's bone marrow? I know, I don't have the links or the knowledge here.

    --

    That's gotta fit into your schema somewhere

  66. Polymorphism considered harmful by ChrisWong · · Score: 2

    There is a certain danger in having too much flexibility. If you stick stem cells into yourself that can replicate indefinitely and transform into anything, then you run the risk of them transforming into everything.

    There is a serious quality control problem here: suppose you want to convert totally undifferentiated stem cells into brain tissue to repair an injury. You might mostly succeed, but QA at the cellular level is tricky. Did you differentiate every one of them? Suppose you missed a couple. Being stem cells, those can continue to replicate and morph uncontrollably. You can end up with a messy clump of hair, intestine and toe nail cells growing uncontrollably in your head. We have a name for this problem: it's called cancer.

    Adult stem cells have value precisely because they are differentiated. It's safer, because they are easier to control.

  67. Just What We Need by Aknaton · · Score: 2

    "for treatment of brain cancers, Alzheimers and other neurological disorders. Problem solved! Yipee! New spinal column, anyone?"

    Yeah, as if the world isn't populated enough already, let cure every fucking disease in the world.

    1. Re:Just What We Need by TheShadow · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's why we should extend capital punishment to lesser crimes like shoplifting... and making left turns from the right lane.

      --

      --
      "What do you want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? Cause I'm married."
    2. Re:Just What We Need by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, as if the world isn't populated enough already, let cure every fucking disease in the world.

      Naaa, let's just start a 'euthanasia for terminally stupid' campaign instead. World population wouldn't be a problem if there were less idiots like yourself consuming oxygen.

  68. Re: pro-life ideology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >I've been hearing about this sort of
    >result for some time in prolife circles,
    >but it seems to be silenced by the
    > mainstream media. I still don't know
    > how much ideology is involved, though.

    OBVIOUSLY yet another a Mainsteam Media conspiracy (NOT!)

    Some pro-life fanatics have their own
    ideology to promote even it means blatant
    lying regarding embryonic stem cell research.

    > Essentially, the embryonic stem cells
    > have failed to produce very promising
    > results because of rejection or tumor
    > formation (in many cases). Adult stem
    > cells, which are pluripotential (not
    > totipotential), have no rejection problems
    > because they are autologously donated.

    Self-serving nonsense. In fact, quite
    the opposite is true. Matching adult stem
    cells for transplant (donation) is still
    quite an issue and rejection can be a
    problem even with good potential matches.
    This is not an issue with the use of
    embryonic stem cells
    (however, the latter are rarely available
    in large enough quantity for most donation
    purposes).

    Adult stem cells also still have limited
    medical application - current experiments
    to coax adult stem cells to reproduce
    as a variety of other human cells is
    encouraging but quite tentative and far
    from any practical application.

  69. Just back from Lexis by bezuwork's+friend · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This article reminds me of a case:

    Moore v. Regents of University of California, 51 Cal. 3d 120 (CA Supreme Ct. 1990). (I know, bluebook format not followed)

    This involved a guy who had some cells removed. He gave consent, but the doctors did not reveal to him their interest in the cells. Turns out that after research with his cells, they developed products worth millions, IIRC. The CA Supreme found for the university despite the doctors having violated a disclosure law.

  70. The Stem Cell Gnomes... by chinton · · Score: 2
    Problem solved! Yipee!
    1. Harvest stem cells from bone marrow..
    2. ???
    3. Problem Solved!
  71. It's about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "New Stem Cell Source - Your Bone Marrow"
    Beats Eating Babies!

  72. Argh... by Peterus7 · · Score: 1
    What I can't stand is that they have to resort to using bone marrow taps to get good stem cells when perfectly good stem cells are available from the large number of fetuses aborted each year. But oh no, taking stem cells from a dead fetus would be unethical...

    Sorry, I have a good friend who was shot 4 times and is paralyzed from the waist down. Good guy too. Wasn't doing anything wrong. And I figure with stem cell treatment he could walk again, but since the administration is so stagnant about ideas like this... Grr... Enough ranting. But with any luck, maybe stem cells from bone marrow will provide enough to rebuild neural tissue, instead of making blood cells.

  73. And in Related News (Feds on Stanford) by alkini · · Score: 1

    Regarding the news from Stanford a couple weeks ago, "The chairman of President Bush's bioethics council demanded a public apology from Stanford University, accusing the school of trying to conceal the nature of its stem cell research and mischaracterizing the bioethics council's views."

  74. bumpersticker seen: by cpeterso · · Score: 1


    "Pro-child, pro-family, pro-wrestling."

  75. old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this is not new news. i heard about this just when the stem cell debate was starting. the bone marrow stem cells are not as versatile as fetal stem cells.

  76. Another source for stem cells. by MsWillow · · Score: 2

    A few years back, there was a small study done that showed a different source of pluripotent stem cells - the nose. It seems that stem cells in the nasal cavity are already adept at becoming nerve cells.

    I don't recall hearing of any follow-up to this, though it seemed very promising. I try to follow these things, as they offer a good chance of reversing the damage done to me by (secondary progressive) multiple sclerosis.

    I've been hoping that such research might offer a way of reversing the damage done, in time that my skill set as a software engineer (microcontrollers and device drivers) would still be useful as anything but a curiosity, but *sigh* things don't look good. If I'm extremely lucky, it'll be only about 15 years till the technology is there, and by then, who'd want to hire a 60-year-old engineer who's been out of circulation foir the past two decades? Grrrr.

    --

    Lemon curry?
    1. Re:Another source for stem cells. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      take a look here :

      http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns9 99 92524

  77. I don't want to sound like I'm trolling... by Peale · · Score: 2

    I really don't, but...duh! Bone marrow is a great source for stem cells! Did someone finally just now figure this out? Or am I really missing something here?

  78. Single stem cell -- multiple organs by kargis · · Score: 1

    This has worked in the lab. There seems to be a subpopulation of marrow stem cells that retain differentiation potential.

    Kargis Strong, MD

    Cell, Vol. 105, 369-377, May 4, 2001

    Purification of rare hematopoietic stem cell(s) (HSC) to homogeneity is required to study their self-renewal, differentiation, phenotype, and homing. Long-term repopulation (LTR) of irradiated hosts and serial transplantation to secondary hosts represent the gold standard for demonstrating self-renewal and differentiation, the defining properties of HSC. We show that rare cells that home to bone marrow can LTR primary and secondary recipients. During the homing, CD34 and SCA-1 expression increases uniquely on cells that home to marrow. These adult bone marrow cells have tremendous differentiative capacity as they can also differentiate into epithelial cells of the liver, lung, GI tract, and skin. This finding may contribute to clinical treatment of genetic disease or tissue repair.

  79. They've been doing this!!! Duh! by DigitalWav · · Score: 1

    My three-year-old has cancer. Last December we did - get this - a stem cell harvest - before she underwent her final chemo treatment. they gave her this $400 per dose medicine that put her bone marrow in super hyper drive to make more than normal then hooked her up to this cool machine that pulled them out. 3 months later we fed them back to her. this is nothing new and replaces the old fashion bone marrow transplants.

  80. Detailed Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    http://www.healthcentral.com/news/NewsFullText.c fm ?id=510956

  81. analogy would only work if using diamonds resulted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "in the death of others"....


    google on "conflict diamond" sometime, shit for brains.

  82. Partial Birth blurs the boundaries by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

    > you do know infanticide != abortion, right?

    Agreed. Abortion is more properly termed feticide (spelling?). Just wanted to point out that partial birth abortion blurs the boundaries between the two terms. The procedure is documented here. Often a babies aborted this way can survive (as a premature delivery), and would be called an infants if the abortionist pulled their head out of the birth canal before killing them (the head is the only part of the body kept within the mother before the baby is killed). This does fit the word meaning: infant-i-cide.

    Ultimately, all abortion definitely involves killing life that is not the mother's own. And that is evil.

  83. Don't be a dumbass. by dankjones · · Score: 1

    Slashdot isn't journalism, it's a message board.

    Stop being such a lazy spectator.

  84. Re: Not always, but this time they did by shaitand · · Score: 2

    what makes the human animal more important than the dog animal? What makes the dog animal composed of molecules no more or less important than those in dirt special? nothing.

  85. Well by DarkrhaveN · · Score: 1

    Well this is pretty good, not problem solved, but we're gettin closer. The pro-lifers need to end this madness... We're talking to the same people who drive gas guzzling cars, pollute the air, dump toxic waste on lands, and then cry about stem-cells. I'm Sorry. Get it right.

    --
    "He Who Laughs Last, Is Just A Hand In The Bush" - Ozzy Osbourne
  86. Re:They've been doing this!!! Duh!...almost by zerofoo · · Score: 2

    My dad also underwent this therapy for Lymphoma.

    The difference here is that the stem cells are not drawn from the bone marrow to replace bone marrow after chemotherapy. The stem cells are drawn from bone marrow to produce completely different cells in the nervous system.

    Scientists have known for many years that some "primary" cells in the body, during fetal development, morph into different cells simply by their location in the fetus. The cells know what they are supposed to become by their surroundings. This technique exploits this trait of stem cells by manually placing them in other areas of the body, and then having them grow into the appropriate cells.

    -ted